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spk04: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Altius Renewable Royalties Q4 and Year-End 2023 Financial Results Conference Call. At this time, our lines are in a listen-only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session. If at any time during this call you need assistance, please press star zero for the operator. This call is being recorded on Thursday, March 7, 2024. I would now like to turn the conference over to Flora Wood, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
spk03: Thank you, Joanna. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to our Q4 and year-end 2023 call and webcast. Our press release and filings were released yesterday after the close, including the annuals and the AIF, and are available on our website under Investors. This event is being webcast live, and you'll be able to access a replay of the call along with the presentation slides and that have also been added to the website on the homepage and under investors. Brian Dalton, CEO of ARR, and Frank Gatman, CEO of Great Bay Renewables, will both be speakers on the call. And in the Q&A, we also have Ben Lewis, CFO of ARR, available for questions. The forward-looking statement on slide two applies to everything we say in our formal remarks and during the Q&A. And with that, I'll turn over to Brian for his opening remarks.
spk12: Thank you, Flora, and thank you, everyone, for joining us today. We've just passed the three-year anniversary of becoming a publicly traded company. To describe this period within the renewable sector as dynamic would certainly be an understatement. To put things in context, the TSX Renewable Index has fallen to around a third of the levels it was when we were marketing the IPO. which gives an indication of how access to and the cost of equity capital has changed for the renewable sector, while at the same time, the debt cost of capital has also increased dramatically. Over this three-year period, we have seen market-based power prices, largely following the price of natural gas, jump to heady levels early on, before declining to current base levels that are unsustainably low when factoring for long-term industry investment requirements. This has been offset, however, by the steady march upwards of contracted power prices that are being settled with large industrial customers for access to renewable sources of power. All of this is to say that our royalty finance product offering must be tailored in real time, almost on a monthly basis, in fact, as we strive to earn our place in servicing the needs of our sector. Please don't mistake any of this for wine. It is during tough dynamic times that the royalty financing model shines and out-competes, especially when it is applied using a long-term contrarian mindset. It is also when it is most appreciated by those operating-level businesses who avail of it, or in other words, when it can really earn an embedded place in the broader sector financing landscape. I understand that for anyone focused on short-term measures, this backdrop of conditions can feel very challenging and too hard. But for those of you who think longer term, I feel very strongly about delivering the message that these are indeed the best of times on the ground for what we do. Your entire team understands this and are working tremendously hard right now to make the most of this opportunity to grow and diversify your business and to position it for long-term success and value creation. And with that, let me turn it over to Frank to give you some color on the past year and what is before us. Your turn, Frank.
spk11: Thank you, Brian. Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you, Brian. Good morning. I'm excited to share with you today an update on our continued progress in building our broad, diversified portfolio for global royalties. Our royalty portfolio revenue and cash flow continues to grow, with GVR joint venture-level royalty revenue for the full year of 2023 coming in at $10.5 million compared to $7.3 million in 2022, an increase of 44%. Operating cash flow at GBR was $5.1 million for 2023 compared to $2.7 million for 2022, an increase of 89%. For 2024, we're providing revenue guidance today of $13 million to $16 million based upon our current royalty portfolio, including construction stage projects on which GBR has royalties that are expected to reach commercial operation in 2024 and current merchant power price assumptions. The midpoint of guidance of $14.5 million represents a 38% increase over GBR's revenues in 2023. These figures include expected late-year revenues from our recently announced Angelo Solar investment, but do not include revenue from any additional potential investments during the year or revenue from potential project sales by developers Hexagon Energy or Hodson Energy, where GBR has the option of receiving a portion of the sale proceeds. As you know, in Q4 last year, we announced the closing of a $247 million credit facility for Great Bay. This financing provides significant liquidity to continue to grow the business at an attractive cost of capital with no dilution to shareholders. We are pleased to be able to deploy some of this liquidity with our recently announced $30 million investment with Apex and its 195 megawatt Angelo Solar project, an attractive project with a strong long-term off-take contract. Angelo is projected to achieve commercial operations in Q2 and provide GVR with new royalty revenue starting in Q4 of approximately $4.7 million per year for the first five years before moderating to lower levels for the remaining project life, including any repowering or extensions. A key benefit of this structure is that it provides higher near-term revenue while the revenue ramp from our development stage royalties over the next several years continues to progress. I'd like to make a few comments on the macro landscape for renewables. Some of the headwinds we previously discussed in the renewables industry are ongoing, namely higher interest rates and costs of both debt and equity capital, interconnection queue backlogs and delays, higher interconnection costs, supply chain constraints that have shifted from solar panels to transformers and switchgear, and political uncertainty. While these headwinds cause project delays and higher costs for developers and sponsors, It creates a backdrop that increases the demand for innovative sources of capital, such as TBR's royalty financing. We're also seeing continued low growth in demand for renewable energy from new data centers to support AI, onshoring of US manufacturing capacity, and generally strong economic activity, particularly in Texas. Who knows how long these market conditions will last, but it's a good time for Great Bay to deploy. We've grown our team to eight to try to help us capture this opportunity. We're also trying to determine what the market will bear when it comes to our expected returns for both developer deals and operating projects, and are seeking to achieve the higher end of our previously stated 8% to 12% return threshold range, given the current environment. I would also note that this range does not factor in any long-term option value inherent in the royalty financing model that we have spoken about at length in the past. In sum, Great Bay remains well positioned with almost 2.5 gigawatts of operating royalties 895 megawatts of projects with GBR royalties in construction, almost 20 gigawatts of wind, solar, and storage development projects in our developer portfolio, and a strong pipeline of new business opportunities. Finally, I'd like to recognize the tremendous efforts of the entire team at Great Bay. We are a small but mighty team doing great work to deliver long-term value to our shareholders. We look forward to reporting on our progress throughout the rest of 2024. That's it for my update. I'll turn it back to you, Brent.
spk12: Thanks, Frank. Before I get to that, I'll give it back to you to start us on questions.
spk03: Joanna, we're ready for questions now.
spk04: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Should you have a question, please press the star followed by the one on your touchtone phone. You will hear a three-tone prompt acknowledging your request. If you are using a speakerphone, please lift the handset before pressing any keys. First question comes from Rupert Murr from National Bank Financial. Please go ahead.
spk00: Hi. Good morning, everyone. So looking at the investment landscape, I think you invested $36 million last year at GBR. You're off to a quick start this year. You've announced the $30 million commitment, and I think you have another $23 million at your development partners. But you've got a lot more liquidity than that. So do you have any goals for capital deployment this year or any forecasts that you can leave with us?
spk09: We have internal goals.
spk11: I'm not sure we're ready to share them with the market right now. It's a little bit – we're opportunistic in that it takes two parties to be able to close a transaction. We have numerous conversations ongoing. both at the developer stage, but I think excitingly, a lot of them are at the operating stage royalties as well. So I guess we're glad we had that liquidity, but we're confident that we'll be able to deploy that over time.
spk12: Rupert, I might add as well that if there's any hint that we're trying to make that liquidity stretch out, I don't think that's the case. We see the current trend. market uh as being quite opportune and representing a window in time so obviously to the extent that quality deals can be sourced you know we'd want to uh take advantage of this market window as much as we possibly can but again it's just it's opportunity driven and deals got to close so we're trying to do as much as we can it's probably the right answer
spk11: Brian has made it clear to me, don't worry about spending all the money.
spk00: Very good. No, it seems like a lot of the opportunities are in Texas. Can you comment on the attractiveness of Texas versus other markets? And do you feel the need to diversify a little bit away from Texas at this point, given your exposure there?
spk11: Well, I guess two things. First on the diversification, there's a lot of non-ERCOP projects in our developer pipeline. So we're going to naturally diversify over time. And that's, you know, in PJM, we have a number of projects and NYSO and other areas of the country. So that's going to happen naturally because that's, but the reason that you're seeing more activity in Texas is because their interconnection process isn't, you know, bollock stuff the way the rest of the country is. So actually that's, one of the few areas where projects are still moving forward and things are getting done. So I think that's what you're seeing. And then finally, there's just tremendous, like I can't overstate the load growth in Texas. It's unlike anything you really, I've seen in my entire career in the electric power industry where you'd see, you know, usually talking, you know, one, two, 3% growth. We're talking six, seven, 8% load growth in some areas of Texas. It's just incredible. And it's interestingly, not only, Just, you know, everybody from California moving to Texas. It's also manufacturing. You know, it's getting back to, you know, smokestack, you know, solid core manufacturing demand. But a lot of that now has a much higher electrical component to it. So, you know, whether it be the data centers or the Bitcoin mining. So it's just a really, if there wasn't a load growth to go with it, I might be concerned, but there's tremendous load growth.
spk00: And when you look at that market and your forecasts for this year in Texas, how much are you impacted by curtailments? And how do you see that playing out in the near and medium term? I know we're seeing a lot of storage go into that market, but also a lot more generation too.
spk11: Yeah, no, it's a great question. We factored that in. We do that analysis up front when we make the investments. So we factor in if it's a particular area that there's a curtailment, we'll just factor that into our price forecast assumptions so that, you know, in some ways, you know, I don't mind investing in a constrained area. If there's visibility over time, it's going to become unconstrained because the assumptions that we're using at the time we're making the investment are lower for power prices. So you have some, you know, kind of a built in relief valve, you know, when storage is built or new transmission is built. So we try to be smart on that up front, and it's become a really important factor in our due diligence.
spk00: Great. Thanks for the call. I'll get back in the queue.
spk04: Thank you. Next question comes from Nick Boychuk from Cormark. Please go ahead.
spk10: Thanks. Good morning, guys. Hey, Nick. Coming back to Rupert's question on kind of the expectations for the year, I'm just curious if you can expand maybe a little bit more on the types of opportunities you're looking for. You've got a couple operating royalties under your belt now, different modalities, different regions. If there was a perfect market, perfect opportunity to come up, what would the characteristics be? Maybe size, technology type, contract versus merchant, like just walk us through what the perfect opportunity would be.
spk11: Yeah. I don't know, you know, I don't mean to be flip, but it really is. There is no perfect opportunity. You know, we're kind of outsourcing these deals, but I will tell you what we're seeing is that there's a lot of folks who are in this transition or trying to own more projects from being a buying flip developer to being an IPP, you know, similar to what Apex is doing and there's others doing it in the market. And what they're running up against is that it's costing them, you know, because of delays and, and, and, you know, the, the increase in costs of, of the equipment, it's cost and higher cost of debt. It's costing way more than people had forecast. So they're looking to stretch your equity dollars. You see a lot of people in the market, you know, you see it everywhere with these, you know, asset sell downs or, you know, that that's happening industry wide. Well, we're a great alternative to, you know, if you want to, sell down a minority position in a operating project. Don't sell down a minority position. Maintain 100% control and take a royalty from Great Bay. And because we're passive, we're not equity, you'd be able to maintain your ownership. So we're seeing opportunities like that. And then also just, you know, people looking to extend their project equity dollars across multiple projects because it's just, you know, the amount of capital required to build up this project is enormous. So I think that's a... we're seeing a lot of that opportunity. There is tremendous demand for early stage development capital. We're being a little, I would say we're being very selective in new developer opportunities because of the delays. You know, if someone's in an early stage developer day, even with their great team, you know, their projects are probably going to be looking at 2030 or beyond. And, you know, that's changed dramatically from when we made our you know, investments into our developer partners. So if someone, you know, one thing we're looking at potentially is DG because a DG developer, because those are not slowed down by the interconnection delays, they're still able to get those projects online and operating. So there seems to be good flow of construction going on in those projects. That might be something we're looking at. So I don't know if that's just to give you a flavor of what the kind of opportunities we're seeing.
spk12: Nick, I'd probably add the other component of that landscape that we probably are seeing some shifts in is just counterparty quality. The type of player that is starting to see our financing as attractive has certainly expanded a little bit, maybe just with changing conditions, maybe it's a function of adoption. But in these difficult times, it's probably not unusual. the strong groups that are weathering it best and seeing opportunities for consolidation and all kinds of things. So that's been one really positive feature. We've certainly been seeing the quality or the strength of the counterparty that is engaging with us is on average certainly going up.
spk11: Folks, I had to take my call a couple of years ago. Sorry, I'm not taking our call. Sorry, I'm actually calling you. How's that royalty thing working good?
spk10: So on that dynamic there, then, does that suggest that you're maybe seeing more opportunities that might be larger in scale for the operating deals? Or is the kind of $30 million deployment like what we just saw with Angelo Solar kind of like that sweet spot where one of these larger developers could monetize a sell-down but not give up too much of the economics?
spk11: Right. I think that $30 to $50 million for a single operating project is probably the range we're looking at. but there are folks out there who are looking to, you know, recycling assets is the big buzzword. It just means like sell stuff because I need money to grow. Well, if they have a portfolio for it, you know, that's one of the things you're looking at. Is there someone with multiple projects? Is there a portfolio structure we can put in place where we do it across multiple projects? That would be a bigger check, but we haven't been able to complete one of those yet.
spk12: Yeah. So Frank, I think that's exactly right. And that, you know, there's a maximum really amount of royalty exposure that fits well in a, So it's kind of a function of the size of the individual project. It's important for them, it's important for all as well not to have too much of the economics of the project because in the long haul that can impair motivation for longer term option realizations and repowering and those kinds of things. So there's a certain level you want to stay within.
spk11: If I could just add on and follow up on that, Brian, that's also one of the reasons why we structure our direct, you know, single project operating royalties with a higher front-end royalty that steps down over time. It has the benefit of both providing near-term cash flow and revenue, but it also gets us down to a lower percentage in later years where we're less of a burden that Brian's talking about so that we don't impact their decision to spend money on CapEx and the like. So there's a couple, you know, just having a higher royalty rate isn't always a good thing. You know, there's a bit of an art and not a science to this.
spk10: Got it. That makes sense. And then just last one here, going to the other side of the barbell approach. In the guidance comments, you kind of mentioned that you could potentially expect to receive project sales from Hexagon or Hodson. Are you seeing anything with those two partners that suggest that they could be monetizing some projects near term and And if so, would you want to monetize that value instead of taking a royalty? And if so, why would you prefer that?
spk11: The answer is yes. They're both moving forward with project sales and looking to continue to advance their portfolios. We still get a royalty. Maybe that was confusing in what we said there. We still get a royalty on the project that's sold. It's just we, it was basically risk mitigation. We said, but if for some reason there were such delays that we didn't feel confident that the rest of the program was going to get us our royalties, we wanted the cash flow in front. We have the right but not the obligation to take a share of the sale proceeds, but we still get our royalty, just to be clear. The reason that we would do that, and I think we probably will, because we also have an option with both Hexagon and Hodgson to deploy additional capital, to basically have a put. put more capital into them in the future if we want to so to us it seems to would seem to make sense to um you know take the cash now on the early project sales and then and continue to deploy online we have better visibility that seems like a prudent thing so you know we haven't made any final decisions yet but um just to be clear we still get a royalty on it's not in lieu of a royalty
spk12: Yeah, and we're essentially financing primarily with debt right now, so adding something from the other side of the ledger along the way is just prudent.
spk09: Okay, got it. Thank you.
spk04: Thank you. Next question comes from Jonathan Lamers at LaRussian Bank Securities. Please go ahead.
spk01: Good morning. Thanks for taking my question. On the... Angelo investment just to circle up, you know, there were a number of positives from that, including a high level of near-term cashflow and you know, with the operation starting in may and you getting first royalty payments in October, I guess, I guess, first of all, as you put the debt financing to work is a near-term cashflow, something you're focused on for the, for the next round of investments.
spk11: I think that's where the greatest risk reward opportunity for us is today. We would have loved to invest in operating cash flowing projects back when we started the company three years ago, but the fact was that the returns we got were not that attractive. That dynamic has changed. So it seems to us it makes a lot of sense that we can deploy into operating cash flowing assets at healthy returns that provide immediate revenue. And it has the additional benefit, and I referenced this in my comments, that it's providing near-term revenue until we hit this wedge of developer royalties, which we have coming in the next couple of years. And we see these things. It's happening. There's a big wedge of royalties coming at us. Well, if we can fill the near-term with near-term cash flow, it's a nice bridge to that longer-term revenue. So I guess that's how we're thinking about it.
spk01: And it was nice to see as well the demonstration of the continuing relationship with APEX. You know, there was some discussion earlier about seeing high quality counterparties coming to the table. Do you foresee continued opportunities with partners like the APEXs and TGEs of the world that might have been acquired since you started working with them?
spk11: Well, our number, we have, you know, our goals for the year we set with the board every year. And our number one goal every year since we started the company has to be a great partner. because that's something that Brian taught me early on that long-term, you know, you're in these projects for a long time. You want to be a great partner. And if you are a good partner, so oftentimes you follow on investment opportunities. And while we didn't want to get bought out of our original investment with Apex, Ares came in and they saw that this is what they wanted to do, but things have changed. Markets change. We maintain that relationship and we were able to get this additional piece of business done. So, you know, you never want to, Burn any bridges and and we are really focused on being a good partner So I would say, you know, hopefully yes, like that's our goal is to continue to do You know repeat business and ongoing business with with good good strong counterparties who we have good relationships with Okay, thanks and one interesting thing in the call slides was on the development pipeline the number of gigawatts you're showing now for Nova Energy and Hexagon and
spk01: moved up from the last slide. I know NOVA has a big portfolio of projects and your contracts, I believe, are for royalties on a portion of those. Has there been any change in the development pipelines for those two that you're trying to highlight there?
spk11: are you just, we're not, it's just, yeah, it's just a fact they're doing their job. They're growing their pipeline. They're seeing opportunities. And it's, it's a, in part, a direct release, a direct response to our capital. And this is the same thing that happened with TGE. When we first invested in TGE, I think they had like 1.4 gigawatts or something like that. But now they have almost six gigawatts. Well, a lot of that, it was a direct result of our capital and our program works that all of that goes into the pot. So, you know, we, we, we likely hopefully we don't get royalties on every single one of those. That means there's been long delays or unless we deploy additional capital, which is also what we did with TGE. So, I mean, the fact that they're building that collateral base for us is nothing but a positive. And, uh, you know, I've, I've been incredibly impressed with, uh, with Nova and Watson go from a true startup when we first invested to now they have, you know, approximately five gigawatts of projects across the country. It's just, uh, They're a very professional team. They've done this before.
spk09: Declan is a leader in the industry, and there's a reason why. Okay, thanks.
spk01: Just on the accounting question, I guess, your share of the losses at the joint venture, we start to see the royalty revenues flowing there. Do you expect that to trend at about this rate until 2026 when we start to see more of the projects in operation?
spk11: I'll let Ben handle the specific question about the accounting. They're being very conservative in that they expense everything. They're expensing a lot of the upfront costs and that just goes through to us. It's just a function of how they're accounting for this development activities.
spk07: I think you're asking about NOVA. And they, thus far, they've expensed pretty well every dollar that they've incurred. So what you'll see on our books, I think it's, you know, we'll recognize losses and we have recognized losses while they're in this stage. And when their projects get further along and they either sell them or start building them, that trend will reverse and we'll go in the other direction. So.
spk09: We don't have any concerns there. Okay, thanks for your comments.
spk04: Thank you. Next question comes from Devin Schilling at PI Financial. Please go ahead.
spk06: Hi, good morning. Just on your 2024 guidance range, does this include the pending escrow payment from Titan Solar? And I guess also, what are the remaining steps here for the payment to be released from this project?
spk11: Yes, it does. And if we haven't already received it, I think we'll be receiving it shortly. So it does include that. The work's been done. It's just a process of tax equity sending off to release the escrow. There's really no risk to those revenues.
spk06: Okay. Okay. No, that's good to know. And then I guess just secondly here, I see the Canyon Wind Royalty Edition in the MD&A here. I think this was not fully expected on my end. I guess any details you can share on this and what's the possibility for some of these other royalties to jump forward in the queue?
spk11: I think Canyon is a Nextera project. Nextera plays their construction activities very close to the best, and that's their prerogative. They're a big player in the market. They're going to disclose to us what they want to disclose when they want to disclose it, and we respect that. But they are also probably the best counterparty in the entire industry at building projects and getting them done in a timely fashion, you know, on time and on budget. So, you know, they're very, very, have a very, very strong machine in building out these projects, but they keep the information close to their vest. And that was a, that was a nice Sarah project.
spk05: Okay, great. Well, regardless, it was great, great to be here. That's everything for me. Thanks, guys.
spk04: Thank you. The next question comes from John Mould at TD Securities. Please go ahead.
spk02: Hey, good morning, everybody. I'd like to maybe just start with Enbridge and, you know, they held their investor day yesterday and several TGE projects showed up in their materials as later mid-stage development projects. I'm just wondering, you know, any takeaways you might have from their update yesterday and can you Just maybe speak more broadly to Enbridge's sponsorship of TGE and the impact that that's had on the progress of the pipeline versus maybe what you would have anticipated otherwise.
spk11: Sure. I did not participate or attend or listen in on that yesterday, so I don't know the specifics of what you're talking about, but I know we have our quarterly calls. We cut in very, you know, constant communication with tri-global roles in Enbridge. And it's been unbelievable to watch the commitment from Enbridge. I don't know if they talked about the, you know, hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. I think it's approaching a billion dollars that they've invested into TGE and their projects, you know, for interconnection deposits, for panel orders. I think, you know, they're going to go out looking to secure wind turbines. So, I mean, things that Tri-Global could never have done on its own, Enbridge has stepped up and is – you know, providing their balance sheet and really providing an acceleration. If there are projects that are getting delayed, it's not because Enbridge is not, doesn't want to go, you know, pedal to the metal. My guess is it's probably because of interconnection delays. Go ahead. No, go ahead, Ryan.
spk12: No, I just add that, like, it's really important to remember what happened when Enbridge bought TGE and effectively it was an effective sale of all of the projects in the pipeline. And that number, you know, looked and still looks well beyond what we would have originally obtained royalties on. So in essence, what happened is we gained an option on the entire portfolio at the time of the acquisition.
spk09: And boy, I'm telling you, that thing has started to look pretty valuable right now.
spk08: Fair enough. That's, that's a good context. And then maybe just on the, the Leeward,
spk02: you know, the Lieberdome projects, can you maybe just provide a little color? How do those, and maybe I'm not understanding it quite correctly, but how do those fit into, you know, the TG construction pipeline? They don't own them anymore. Are they still managing those or is it fully up to, to Lieberd to move them forward? And I, and I asked that recognizing that, you know, those are still a part of your broader royalty agreement. So if other projects move ahead, then they get, they get superseded. So that's not a risk, but just, you know, wondering where those are fitting at this point.
spk11: Yeah, no, those are fully in control of Leeward now. And Leeward is funding those, not Enbridge. But, you know, we met recently, I met recently with the CEO and they are committed to those projects. And I think a couple of them got fast track status and PJM, which they were very pleased about, which is fantastic for us and fantastic for them. So, We've seen nothing to suggest that they're not fully committed to those projects and to go forward and build them as quickly as they can.
spk08: Okay, great. Those are all my other questions that were answered. Thank you very much.
spk04: Thank you. Next question is a follow-up from Nick Boychuk at Cormark. Please go ahead.
spk10: Thanks. We hadn't really touched on the smaller debt facility and the potential to deploy that into some of the interconnection queue issues. I'm just wondering, Frank, if you're starting to see a little bit more opportunity to deploy that capital and what that might mean for future opportunities.
spk11: Yeah, I think you're referring to the LC facility, the $23 million LC facility. Yes, that may be the single biggest bottleneck in the entire industry right now. And to fully realize that potential, we did a lot more than 23 million, but what we're working on now is there's, you know, the devil is in the details with how a third party, Great Bay, posts on behalf of a developer with MISO or PJM or one of these RTOs and still maintains control of the capital so that if something happens and you want to pull it back to keep the risk-free nature of that deposit. You know, if we just give it directly to the counterparty and they put it in, you know, we've lost control of it. So we've had to work, and Zach has done a tremendous job digging into the details. And I think we're getting close to being able to, you know, complete our first one of those interconnection deposit support mechanisms. And it's a great use of that LCPO because we're paying a fee on it. So we definitely want to be able to deploy it to turn it into a revenue generator than a cost or expense.
spk09: Okay, thank you.
spk04: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. As a reminder, should you have any questions, please press star 1. There appear to be no further questions. I will turn the call back over for closing comments. Thank you, Joanna.
spk03: Oh, Brian, I'll let you speak. No, no, you go ahead.
spk12: I'm sure we were going to say the same thing, but thank you. Okay.
spk03: Well, interrupt me if we don't. But I just wanted to say that, well, I wanted to thank everybody for joining and to say that that was a really great set of questions from the analysts. And I'm looking forward to talking to you soon after Q1.
spk04: Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference call for today. We thank you for participating, and we ask that you please disconnect your lines.
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