Hazer Group Limited

Good morning everybody and welcome to Hazel Group's quarterly update webinar where CEO and Managing Director Glen Corey and Chief Technology Officer Tim Forbes will be on the call to discuss the highlights of Q4 FY24 and do a small presentation for you. Once we conclude the presentation we will move on to a Q&A portion We have received some questions in advance, but please do feel welcome to answer any questions you have. And please use the Q&A button at the bottom of your screen. To avoid repetition, I may combine or amalgamate questions together just to save time. But thank you very much again for joining. I'll now hand over to you, Glyn.

Thanks, Hannah. Hello, everyone, and welcome to our Q4 results investor briefing. Thank you for dialing into the call. Joining me today is Tim Forbes, our chief technology officer. As Hannah said, the slide materials are released today on the ASX, and they're available on our website if you'd like to download them. We'll spend the next 20 minutes on the presentation, and then we'll open up the floor for some Q&A. Our agenda is as follows. Firstly, I'll talk to the headlines from our quarterly results. Tim will then provide an update on our commercial demonstration plant, our CDP, and all the good progress that we're making there. Thirdly, we'll bring you up to speed on our commercial projects and our partnerships. And before we open up the call for Q&A, I'd like to close with a bit of a corporate update and reiterate our strategic priorities and our activity plan for the coming 12 months. Let's dive straight in. Our Q4 highlights, you will have seen these come out on Monday. We brought our CDP online in January of this year. We've used the last quarter to advance the technology performance test program and concurrently driving forward our commercialization strategy. Firstly, at the CDP, we've achieved a record 182 hours of hot operations. That's over seven days. of production operations. It's three times what we've achieved quarter on quarter. It's a major success and a significant milestone for a first of a kind technology. Secondly, we are continuing to leverage the performance of our CDP into commercial partnerships. We've made a major step forward with Canada. We've signed a binding agreement with them to consolidate our partnership and build a commercial scale facility. It's our first commercial facility with a very large customer. Importantly, we have now agreed the commercial framework. Hazer will be the technology licensor and the license terms should be in place before the end of this year. More recently, we have signed a very transformational deal with Posco It's one of the world's largest steelmaking firms. We'll integrate Hayes' technology into this clean steelmaking process. It's a full endorsement of Hayes' technology, and it's a privilege to be working alongside POSCO, developing the scale-up of our technology into the key market of steelmaking. Finally, we're underpinned as a company and corporately by a very robust funding position, solid cash balance, low and flexible cash earned, an extended runway through significant technology and commercial milestones, and importantly, some very significant non-dilutive inflows, including an R&D rebate that we receive annually, further arena funding milestones that will unlock as we deliver CDP performance, and in addition to that, some early revenue from our project in Canada. At this stage, I'll hand over to Tim for an update on the CDP.

Thanks very much, Glenn. Good morning, everyone. Great to be here again. As Glenn has said, we've had a fairly productive quarter, so really happy to be sharing some of those results here today. As always, we need a balance sharing information, the technical and commercially sensitive information. and protecting that with giving shareholders an update. And I think everyone's very curious. So really, we strive to get that balance right. And it's about protecting shareholder value. And we'll always share what we can and what we deem relevant. So brief recap on the CDP test program. So the CDP, as a reminder, it's located in Munster, south of Perth. 100 tonne per annum hydrogen production nameplate capacity, and it processes biogas from the wastewater treatment plant there. So carbon negative process all in all. It's over a one foot or 300 centimetre diameter reactor, so it's a commercially relevant flow regime for predicting larger scale performance. In terms of the test program, where we're at and what we're trying to achieve. So first objective, just demonstrate the technology continuously. So prior to the demonstration plant, pilot plant runs were limited due to design to in the order of 24 hours. As Glenn mentioned, we've gone beyond that already. So continuous operation for extended duration and demonstrate that the core technology works But from the first run, we're producing hydrogen and graphite in line with expectations. It's not quantitatively validated yet, but a green light in terms of the ability for the technology to perform. So we're calling that a pass at this point on our test program. The next attribute there is producing larger volumes of graphite to enable the next phase of product qualification. So while we've substantially increased our inventory, we're still early on in the operation and we're looking to confirm stable product quality with extended stable operations before we launch into the next phase of product testing. But in general, hydrogen graphite production is proceeding well. Extended continuous operation, so we've run it for 24 hours. We've now run it for more than 100 hours. We're looking to continue to extend that further and get more data on how the plant will perform in a large-scale commercial setting and inform the reliability you'd get out of a large-scale commercial plant. So while we've given ourselves a green tick on completing our key objectives there, we'll continue to push and try and optimize and enhance reliability of our continuous operation. Similarly, solids handling demonstration. Some of our equipment and our solids materials, being the graphite, are a little bit abnormal. So one of the objectives of the test plan was to demonstrate the performance of that equipment. And at this point, while we want to see more extended operation, cyclones, filters, screw conveyors, et cetera, all that equipment is working as anticipated, potentially even better than anticipated and no real issues flagged. We just wanna see further demonstration of that before we call that one complete. And then lastly, scale up performance validation. So what this one's about is validating the level of methane conversion, hydrogen production for a given set of operating conditions that we'll see at the large scale. And then also demonstrating graphite purity at a given catalyst consumption and gas conversion. So while all indications are positive there, we haven't yet optimised our operation and we're holding back on calling that one complete at this point in time. But initial indications are positive and we're on track to complete the test program this year. So we do have strong commercial interest. We've got a strong base technology and a good test plan. The focus at this point is execute the test plan to then secure the commercial investment. And as you can see, the list on the right is growing. There's a lot more going on in the background. So we're well placed with the commercial interest. Glenn, would you be able to go to the next slide, please? So in terms of some of the key results, The chart on the right, as you can show, the progressive increase in operational runtime with each run shows that we're learning each time. As most of you probably know, starting up any plant, even existing technology, or even an existing plant after downtime is challenging. The first couple of runs, we're largely sorting out commissioning, startup issues, things like tuning control loops, sequencing of valves, et cetera. In the third run, we got things under control, stable operations, and then had some challenges injecting catalyst with a catalyst injection system fault. And then by run four, we achieved much more stable operation, got the catalyst injection going, and were largely under control We had a few external interruptions with power supply, compressor faults, et cetera. But I'd say the key message here is the core tech is looking good. We continue to learn and deliver improved runtimes. And in the background, we're leveraging that data to enhance our technical understanding and support the project development work that's going on. In terms of our next run, we're nearing works completion to enter run five. We've done some minor mechanical modifications to improve reliability. And so they're not really process related, but we're confident in our ability to improve again going forward. We're looking forward to reporting back on some more positive results in the near future. Thanks very much. I'll hand back to Glenn.

Great. Thanks, Tim. Let's move to the next slide. So CDP is doing its job technically, and it's also, as Tim said, doing its job commercially, demonstrating our technology is ready for the big league in that respect and ready to scale up and unlock opportunities for us commercially and corporately. We've got a rapidly expanding customer footprint in strategic markets and industries with tier one blue chip partners. Our pipeline of opportunities is continuing to grow. The USA, Europe, Asia, USA is a very good strategic fit, low cost feedstock, strong policy support. In addition to our partnership with FortisBC, we're advancing a number of partnerships and licensing discussions on the ground there. Asia is a very unique market. It's abundant LNG and gas, very limited access to carbon capture and storage and renewables, a very large industrial complex that has industry that's very difficult to electrify. So one project in Japan, a project now in Korea and others in flight, in particular around Southeast Asia. closer to home in Australia. There's a series of potential opportunities in traditional hydrogen markets, such as ammonia. And we've now got quite strong policy and government support with the recent budget measures, $7 billion into hydrogen, $8 billion into critical minerals. And we're seeing that sparing a bit of the demand. So we see a strong outlook for Australia over the coming years. Outside of the technology, we're collaborating with Mitsui on developing a marketing strategy for Hazus Graphite and that's taking shape and we're getting some very good feedback that is emerging from the customer base there. Just looking a bit of a deeper dive into North America and our Canada project, we're very excited this quarter to announce the signing of a binding contract with Fortis to build a 2500 tonne per annum commercial facility in Vancouver in Canada. It's a significant milestone for the project, as I've mentioned. Just to remind everyone, Fortis BC is a very large integrated energy utility. Its market cap is around $30 billion Canadian. It's about two times the size of Origin Energy, so a very large group that we're very proud to be working with. The key terms of the deal are very good. Fortas BC will assume 100% of the project and the equity ownership. They'll take 100% of the capex and simplistically, Hazer will license the technology. We've agreed a license fee framework, very important. It's linked to size of facility and it's linked to royalties on production of hydrogen and graphite. We'll look to finalize those license terms throughout the year. Feed's complete. FID is currently scheduled for 2015 following site selection. Then feed will be integrated along with the completion of the definitive agreements. And really importantly is that under the engineering services agreement, we will be receiving some early revenue for all of the engineering work that we're doing point forward. And that should start to flow once that agreement is signed this year. And this will include some recovery on past costs that have been spent over the last year or so. I will make mention that the Canadian government is also very supportive. There's been an initial $8 million of government grant funding into the project secured from the British Columbian provincial government, and that should carry the project through to FID. Moving on to POSCO, transformational deal for us in several ways. It's a big company, a big industry with a very big problem. Steelmaking is responsible for over 8% of global CO2 emissions. It's a very carbon intensive industry. Hayes' technology is very uniquely positioned to effectively decarbonize the steelmaking industry in general. It's got an application for hydrogen, application for Hayes' graphite, and also an iron ore catalyst. So the synergies of our technology into steelmaking are very, very strong. POSCO is the sixth largest still producing company worldwide. They've got a very clear pathway to carbon neutrality by 2050. Our MOU that we have signed with them, we've been working with them for over a year and a half, two years. So there's been extensive amount of due diligence done on the technology with POSCO. So we're very proud to be going into an MOU, jointly developing a plan to integrate Hayes' technology into POSCO's proprietary low carbon green steel process called Hyrex. There's a load of information on the web. for people to see. The initial plant capacity hasn't been finalized yet, but we'd expect it to be in the order of around 3000 tons per annum. But what's more exciting is that that will build likely over time. Their requirement in the long run is for hydrogen capacity in excess of 100,000 tons per annum. So this is a very exciting long-term growth opportunity for us that could be a very significant value generator for the company. Again, this will be a licensing agreement for us. POSCO will own 100% of the project. Hazel will be the licensor of the technology. Moving on to the corporate side, we'll talk shortly about our upcoming catalyst. I do want to address upfront the share price. It's certainly not where we want to be as a company. We certainly don't think it necessarily represents the progress that we've made as a company over the past 18 months. Our company and our business is in one of the strongest places it's been in the history of the company. The technology is de-risked. We've got our CDP operating well, as Tim has mentioned. We've got four really important commercial partnerships with blue chip customers providing strong endorsement of our technology. There's a much shorter pathway now to first revenue and cash flows. Our deep pipeline is more apparent now that our CDP is operating, and that includes potential customers, strategic partners and investors. And we've got a robust and flexible funding position as a company. The size of the prize, as I've said on a number of occasions is very large for Hazer. Every large scale plant that we have licensed and built by others globally will yield in the region of 30, 50, $80 million of value, depending on the size. So if there's 10 plants in our portfolio, that could be a platform, a company valued anywhere in excess of a half a billion dollars of value based on just the royalty. framework. So that's the size of the price that they're shooting for, that we're shooting for. We're trading at a 52 week low. I appreciate that. The flip side of that was that we think that's a very attractive valuation and entry level. We've got a lot of near term catalysts in our pipeline, and we believe it's a good time to invest in Hazer. Moving on to those priorities, you'll see them there. Our strategy is focused on three pillars. commercialize, scale up and grow our technology. Commercialize is to really validate the CDP and the test program, complete that by the year end, valorize our graphite. Accelerate and scale up our tech into our foundation projects, drive forward those commercial projects in Canada, in Japan, in Korea, as well as in France. And then of course, convert those projects and monetize those through licensed terms and revenue streams and monetize the graphite. We've got translating that into milestones. We've got a pretty busy 12 to 18 months ahead of us. There's a bunch of really important and positive milestones and catalysts for the company. On the CDP, we're driving towards a commercial readiness point. by year end you've heard what tim has said in terms of our progress on our technology performance test plan we're making good progress we've been through 100 hours we've got 240 hours just around the corner and then we'll drive towards the end of the year to declare commercial readiness for the overall technology in canada our project development agreement is signed that set the stage for the next phase of the project we're aiming to finalize the the the license terms for our involvement in that project by the year end. The team will be in Perth in October to continue dialogue on that. FID is now as early as 2015, and that will be the likely point that Hazer will start to receive license fees from our involvement in that project. In Japan, we haven't spoken about Japan extensively over the last couple of months, but we have made really good progress on the ground there. The feasibility study is now complete. The results are showing very positive movement technically and commercially, and the project is viable. There's some large-scale testing of graphite to be done before we move into pre-feed, but we'll provide more project definition. And again, license terms are scheduled for discussion at the end of this year and into next year. We'll continue to work with Mitsui on the marketing of our graphite. This is going well. We're starting to see very strong interest in Hayes's graphite from a range of industries and potential customers. The end game, of course, here is to market and secure offtake agreements. And we're pursuing that aggressively. Our pipeline is deep and we continue to work in all of our target markets. Corporately, finally, we continue to get more runs on the board. Our R&D cash refund is scheduled to be received sometime in the second half of this year. We spent a lot of cash this year on R&D or last year on R&D. So we should again see a sizable refund. In addition to that, the CDP performance is also unlocking further arena milestones. So we expect to receive those on the latter part of this year or the early part of 2025. And we're also in the running for further grants both federally and at the state level. So that's a good place to, I think, open up the floor for questions. You've seen our investment highlights. The technology de-risked. It's advancing strongly. We've got a very strong cost and competitive advantage relative to our peers. We're decarbonising natural gas and accelerating the pathway to clean hydrogen. It's a disruptive, low-cost hydrogen technology that's available today to scale and a really good opportunity for investors out there.

All right, thanks very much Glenn. Everybody on the call, we're now going to move forward with the Q&A session. Again, if you do have a question, please use the Q&A button at the bottom of your screen and we will endeavour to answer as many as possible. If we cannot get to your question live, then please don't worry, please send it to us on email, we will come back to you as soon as possible. So Glenn, we do have a few that we've received in advance, which I'm going to address first. The first one being, when reviewing your recent slide decks, I noticed that your H2 per kilo target cost per region has been lowered despite your assumptions for the price of feedstock increasing. What are the drivers of this lowered H2 cost expectation? Does it relate to electricity prices and or have there been any further learnings from the CDP that has allowed you to adjust them downwards?

Very good question. Yeah, it's a good pickup, by the way. We have actually reduced our LCOH over time. That's driven mostly a bit by the CDP performance. I think we're understanding a lot more about the technology and what the improvements can be as we think about the scale up of the technology. Lower energy intensity, I know, is a big driver. Graphite pricing upside, as we've explored the markets and got a lot of feedback, we see a growing demand Gareth J. upside in the graphite it could be a serious value driver for the economics and also the company so there's some upside their lower operating costs, of course. Gareth J. are also a contributor, so a combination of these factors have brought down our lc oh. Just from memory, if you think about the LCOH for us globally, it's extremely competitive. In the US, we can deliver hydrogen on the ground to customers for around a dollar a kilogram. In Asia, where gas prices are around four to five times those in the US, in the order of $10 to $12 an mm BTU, we can still deliver hydrogen to customers industrially. for anywhere between $2.50 and $3.50, depending on the jurisdiction. So an extremely competitive cost base, and that's putting us at the front of the queue for interested parties in terms of technology and the value that we can create for industrial customers.

All right, thanks very much, Glen. Second one, can you provide a bit more detail around how the technology will scale from the CDP to the potential phase one applications, 2,500 to 10,000 tons per annum, and then ultimately your phase two target of 100,000 tons per annum.

Yeah, thanks Hannah, I might take that one. So I guess initially we have small scale data that we understand how quickly the reactions perform and the chemistry in the reactions. Then when we go to the demonstration plant, that's at a scale where the gas solids contacting effectiveness is important. And that is a substantial de-risk at the demonstration scale. So now that we're operating at that scale, we understand a lot more about expected performance at the large commercial scale. So two and a half thousand tons per annum. And what I would say, the CDP substantially de-risks the performance predictions. And then the two and a half thousand ton per annum plant for a fluid bed reactor is a very small fluid bed reactor. So that's well within commercial experience bands. Most of the key data required to substantiate that performance is being obtained from the CDP. So fluid beds are scalable. We have the design. We're getting the data to support it. In terms of a 10,000 ton per annum plant, The same designs that we'll be implementing next year at the CDP with heating elements included, that will be applicable at least up to 10,000 tons per annum, if not upwards of 40,000 tons per annum within the existing size of commercially deployed fluid bed reactors. So we're in the process of proving out the technology. Those scales are well within proven demonstrated experience in industry. And then in parallel, we're working on process improvements, optimizations, and some more substantial changes to get us to the long-term goal of in the order of 100,000 tons per atom. Glenn, did you have anything to add on that?

No, that's spot on. I think Tim and the team have developed a pathway to large scales. The demand for the technology is already scaling up. So we're trying to meet that with single train capacity, as Tim mentioned. So it's something that we're planning for at this stage.

All right. Thanks very much, both. This next one is a combination of multiple questions on the same topic. So there are two questions in one here. and it is on Hayes' competitive advantage, how do you see the competitive landscape changing over time? Is there enough differentiation with regards to input, scale, output across all methane pyrolysis technologies that a superior technology could be identified? And also this leads into why Hayes' technology has been chosen by its partners over competitors.

Yeah, I might take first stab at that one. Yeah, you have a first stab at that and I'll... Yeah. So, I mean, I'd say that the competition is heating up. There's a lot of, there's a lot of players out there, but Hazer has fairly strong and broad IP in the iron oil catalyzed fluid bed reactor, methane pyrolysis space. So we have very, very strong coverage there. Now, why is that important? What we see in the plasma space is it appears that the, That capacity is limited by plasma torch size. So we see announcements of maximums in the order of 5,000 ton per annum single-train capacity relative to our ambitions upwards of 100,000 tons per annum capacity. Now, why is that? Ultimately, plasma torch size is limited, whereas what we're looking at doing is a fluid bed reactor. And large fluid bed reactors exist in industry. It's It's not at all a stretch to be pushing to the five to 10 meter diameter reactor vessel, which is the basis of the 40,000 tonne per annum future capacity claim. So Haver is competitive. We have strong IP, we've got cheap catalysts, so low cost, fluid bed technology, which is scalable. Electric heating paints the pathway for really low emissions. And then we have a differentiated carbon product in the graphite that you don't get with some of the other technologies. So we see our position as strong and we're focused on developing our technology. We have the commercial interest there. We deliver our test plan. We're well placed to capitalize on that and secure our position as a leader in this space.

And I'll just add to that. The market's big. The hydrogen market is a lot of people don't really appreciate. It's 100 million tons per annum. So it's a very significant market that is, you know, it's a third of the global LNG market in scale. So there's a lot of space for everybody. All of that. is produced with steam methane reforming a very carbon intensive form of hydrogen production and that is our disruption into this market of course we're not going to capture all of it in this space for everybody but as tim said we're we're a leader in this space from a cost perspective and our value upside is in the form of graphite relative to a carbon black so we're really well positioned and advanced and i think we're you know we're set on maintaining that leading um position in the market

Right, thanks very much, Glenn. The next question, again, is a combination of several, and it relates to revenues. So when do you expect first revenues, and when will you expect revenues as licence fees with specific focus on 40SBC?

Yeah, very good question. So I think to break the question down into probably two parts, as I've mentioned already, we're going to see early revenue this year in the form of a recovery plus a margin, on all of the costs that we've spent or some of the costs that we spent in Canada plus cost point forward that we spend from an engineering services perspective. And that's a model that we're very keen to replicate on all of our future projects. So we're going to start to see some early recovery and revenue from at least our Canada project this year once that agreement is signed. So we're going to start to see that. In terms of our licensing structure, The license fee framework that we have developed is a combination of license fees and royalties. License fees will be typically paid at FID onwards and royalties will be paid on production. And there's two timeframes in there. FID, of course, generally comes two, two and a half years before production. So there will be, we're certainly much closer now to revenue now that we've got FID in sight, certainly for Canada and also some of our other commercial projects. And we'll continue to find ways to bring that forward, of course. But that's the way that the revenue structure is set up. Early revenue through and returns through engineering services, and then the commencement of inflows of revenues and cash flow from the royalties and the license fees from FID onwards.

Right, thanks very much, Glenn. Next question, how is Hazer utilising the data from the CDP to attract new potential customers and are there any specific industries or regions you are targeting as a priority now?

Tim, do you want to take that one?

Yeah, so I'll have first pass. Now, in terms of attracting customers, I'd say, you know, Luke Cox, our Chief Commercial Officer, does a great job there. We have no end of interest in getting an audience and talking about the technology. With potential project partners, being able to support your claims with real data is very important. So when we have those conversations, being able to share some of the performance data, plant design, and our test programs, goes a long way towards progressing those conversations to the next stage. So that's how we're using it. And sorry, Hannah, I think there was a second part to that question I've missed.

Yeah, it was really just about how, are there any specific industries or regions that you're targeting as a priority?

Yeah, I mean, I guess from my perspective as a technical person, I look to support all inquiries and applications and make sure we have optionality. But I would comment that we see a strong synergy in steel, both for hydrogen and graphite production. Obviously, a lot of hydrogen going into ammonia and refining, also seeing interest there. And then of course, things like gas blending, mobility, power, et cetera, are still on the cards. So there's a lot of demand and our inquiries are coming from from all regions. Glenn, if you wanted to maybe add a little comment?

Yeah, I'll just say, look, the CDP, as you've said, has spurred a lot of interest, in particular since we've had it operating now for at least six months, so we get lots of visits there. In terms of regions, we're not agnostic to geography, but we see the strategic markets as the US or North America, Europe and Asia, probably in that order. Australia, of course, is emerging now with all the budget measures, and there's emerging interest as well from customer bases in here. In terms of industry segments, today's hydrogen market is mostly refining and ammonia. So they're low hanging fruit, displacing existing steam, methane reforming in those industries with hazer technology because we're cost equivalent. As Tim said, steelmaking is also a very important sector. because of its emissions, because of the fact that the nice synergies that we bring to that industry with our hydrogen, our graphite or our carbon product, as well as our iron ore as a catalyst. So they're the sort of sectors that we're obviously prioritising. But we have a lot of interest that we, you know, obviously screen on a certain criteria. And they're the projects that we effectively assess taking forward.

Thanks very much, Glenn. Next question. A critical aspect of the hazer process value add is graphite production. Can you provide any further information regarding the graphite quality and its suitability for different products? Will we eventually see hazer graphite in EVs or lithium ion batteries, etc.? ?

Yeah, thanks Hannah. Great question. I could talk for a long time on this, so I'll try and keep it brief. So expected quality of graphite directly produced off the unit is in the range of 90 to 95% fewer by carbon content. At that level of quality, it wouldn't go straight into a battery application. And how we're viewing things at this point is that there are multiple uses with high value where we can see that going straight into. So we'll see applications, application potential in steel production, wastewater treatment, thermal energy storage, these kinds of applications we would view as higher confidence, high volume markets and drop in solutions. In parallel with that, once we establish a sound base of high volume outlet, we'll continue to do development work on purification and other techniques that will enable some of these higher value applications in the long term. Will we see it in batteries? I guess we've already made batteries with it. We can do it. It requires some development to do it commercially, and that's certainly part of the long term plan.

Thank you very much, Tim. We are fast running out of time, unfortunately, so I'll just have one or two more. The next one. It's an interesting question, actually. If FID for the BC project is achieved in 2025, when do you foresee first production? And also, what is the major catalyst for signing further project licensing agreements? Is it a certain CDP milestone achievement or is it something else?

Yeah, I can see that question, Hannah. That's a good one. Um, so FID for currently for the Canadian project is scheduled for 2025. Uh, the, as I've mentioned, the feed study for that project is initial feed is already complete. So it's a long way advanced once the site is selected. We will go into then integrating the final feed or Fortis will do that. And that will be the major catalyst, if you like, for the FID. Of course, definitive commercial agreements are a key milestone for that, as well as government approval. So they're the three main factors for FID in Canada in 2025. um it'll take about two years to build um that's about the the construction time more or less so but again fid is the point at which we would expect to start to receive um the license aspect aspects of our um of our revenue model so that's how we're starting to think about it in terms of other projects um what drives effectively the FID is purely just the feasibility work, the pre-feed and then the feasibility studies. But all of our projects, we often get asked about how many projects can you handle? We're not a developer of projects. What we are is a licensor of the technology. So we can handle a larger volume of projects because we're licensing the technology. And of course, all of the feed work and all of the engineering construction and building work is is on the customer. And that's one of the uniquenesses of our business model that we can handle a larger portfolio of effectively customers here. They'll have their own internal milestones to drive forward to FIDs for projects, but we're phased um generally we see our portfolio today phased every two years a project coming online we've got an ambition and a vision of having 10 plants in 10 years as i've said in terms of valuation every large-scale project here delivers in the order of 50 million dollars of license fees to the company in value um so you can start to see how quickly the the underlying value of the company can be built up with a portfolio of projects worldwide

Thanks very much, Glenn. I'm just going to combine two slightly similar questions into one as we wrap up. And it is, how does Hazer compare with SMR? Is it more or less efficient? And then how is the company looking at additional Australian grants for carbon capture technology, given how different you are from SMR?

Yeah, Tim, I'll address the grant point and then I'll let you talk to the SMR differentiation there. The grant, access to grants Australia-wide has really opened up, both at the federal level as well as at the state level. Of course, Hazer is a built-in carbon capture technology in the form of graphite. So we have effectively, we split a methane molecule into pure hydrogen and and carbon in the form of graphite with zero emissions, scope one emissions. So we are naturally a carbon capture technology. It's easier to store a solid than it is to store a gas. So we offer a very unique proposition for carbon capture and storage. Now that's the conversations that we have ongoing at the federal and the state level in terms of methane paralysis as a very unique carbon capture technology. So we see that change, the $7 billion to critical minerals, the $8 billion to hydrogen, we think is going to help. There's the Head Start program as well. And we're keen to capture both sides of effectively those budget measures for our technology going forward. Tim, did you want to address the SMR point?

Yeah, so I guess, Hannah, SMR efficiency, I'd probably talk about process energy intensity. So how much power per kilogram of hydrogen produced. What I'd say is SMR and HAZR are similar. We're both splitting a methane molecule, which is eight times easier than a water molecule. So that's probably a useful comparison to bring in there relative to electrolysis, SMR, and the hazer process are both vastly superior in terms of how much less energy they require to split the molecule is one aspect. The second key aspect is that SMR uses methane as a fuel to heat the process and generates a substantial amount of CO2 emissions. Whereas, as Glenn says, the hazer process has the carbon capture and storage built into the process without question. So, you know, comparable energy intensity, when you look at the fact that we've got the carbon capture built in and availability of carbon capture in other geographies, the scale required, the cost, there's a lot of uncertainty there. We see that, you know, Hazer is very well positioned relative to SMR.

Thank you very much, Tim. Everybody on the call, that's all we have time for today. If we didn't get to your question, I apologise. Please do send it to us by email and we will come back to you. John, I've seen your comments about where to send the questions to. If you look on the bottom of the 4C announcement, there is a direct email address for Hazer, which is contact at hazergroup.com.au, or there is my personal email address. Please send it to either of those and we'll come back to you as soon as we can. So again, thank you for joining. Before we leave, Glenn, do you have any closing remarks?

Not really. I think, again, just thank you to everyone for joining the call and for your interest in Hazer. We appreciate the ongoing support from all of our shareholders. Look, we truly believe that hydrogen will be a significant part of the energy mix, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%. And that is commonly shared worldwide. Our technology has got the power to decarbonize natural gas. and accelerate the pathway to hydrogen much faster than any other technology that's available today, including electrolyzers. So it's a natural transition technology that can be a game changer for hard to abate sectors like steelmaking, cement and other sectors that are very difficult to electrify. And that is the markets that we're attracting interest in. And that's the markets that we're targeting. So we're excited about the journey. We've come a long way in the last 18 months, and we've focused on delivering the strategy and unlocking the true value of the technology for shareholders over the coming years. Thank you.

Thank you, Glenn. Thank you, Tim. And thank you, everyone, for joining. The call today was recorded and will be available on Hazer's website in the next 24 hours. Again, thank you, and we look forward to updating you in the near future.