Inter & Co. Inc.

Good afternoon and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Interim Co.' 's fourth quarter of 2024 earnings conference call. Today's speakers are João Vitor Menem, Inter's applicable CEO, Alexandre Richo, Brazil CEO, Santiago Stel, Senior Vice President and CFO. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded and a replay will be available at the company's IR website. At this time, all participants are in listen-only mode. After the prepared remarks, there will be a question and answer session. For this session, we ask you to write down your question via the Q&A icon on your screen. Your name will then be announced, and you will be able to ask your question live. At that point, a request to activate your microphone will appear on your screen. If you do not want to open your microphone live, please type no microphone at the end of your question. In this case, our operator will read your question out loud. Please note that there is an interpretation button on your screen where you can choose the language you want to hear, English or Portuguese. Throughout this conference call, we will be presenting non-IFRS financial information. These are important financial measures for the company but are not financial measures as defined by IFRS. Reconciliations of the company's non-IFRS financial information to the IFRS financial information are available in enter and co-earnings release and earnings presentation appendix. Today's discussion might include forward-looking statements which are not guarantees of future performance. Please refer to the forward-looking statements disclosure in the company's earnings release and earnings presentation. Now, I would like to yield the floor to Mr. João Vitor Menin. Sir, the floor is yours.

Thank you, operator. Hello, everyone. Thanks for joining our fourth quarter earnings call. This is a very special earnings call for me. Let me tell you why. This year alone, we delivered more profits than in our entire history combined. I will repeat, 2024 net income was more than our prior years combined. I believe that this is a proof of the success of our business model. which we designed back in 2016 when we launched the first digital bank in Brazil. It also gives me strong confidence that we are in the right path. Following my remarks, Shanji and Santi will cover the operational and financial results for the quarter and year. Our business model has the beauty of combined growth and profitability, resulting in a positive network effect. Each new cycle reinforces the power of the platform, creating a virtual cycle. This is how it works. Our complete product offering, combined with a best-in-class UX, helps us attract and engage clients. The more clients we have, the more efficient we become. Our low-cost structure allows us to price our products competitively. Operating in a capital efficient manner, together with strong share in services, we increase profitability and ROE. And this growing profitability enables us to keep innovating. As this cycle repeats itself, the platform becomes stronger and stronger. Jumping into 2024, let me provide a few highlights of the year. On the credit front, we made significant progress with our 100% digital payroll offering, which now accounts for more than 50% of the new underwriters. We also continued scaling our consumer finance 2.0 portfolio and aim to increase the penetration rate within our current clients. Regarding products, Forum, launched in Q3 2024 now has millions and millions of users who share investment tips, news, and stay updated on interest products. Our commerce platform had an outstanding year in which we were able to crack the codes on combining commerce with finance. Loop, our loyalty program, is expanding its options for earning and redeeming points. and has surpassed 11 million clients. Now, let me take a moment to discuss our global expansion. By the end of 2024, we reached 3.9 million clients using our global account. This success comes from our attractive value proposition. Our global account makes it very easy to invest, travel, send money internationally, and more. We also expanded our offerings, with the highlight being the launch of our dollar credit cards last December. 2024 was also a year of welcoming new talents to our team, enhancing our skills and capabilities. Rui Leandro and Marcelo Dantas joined the finance team. Monica Saccarelli and Fernando Baquin came on board on the business side. Our newest hire, Marco Antonio Araújo, joined as our global head of legal. Xande was promoted to Brazil's CEO in the middle of the year. And also, Rafa Vitória stepped in as the new IR officer. Gui Ximenez, who held the CTO role since the launch of our digital bank, became our CIO last December. He is now our chief information officer. Flavio Queijo expanded his responsibilities and now manages the real estate portfolio, FGTS, and payroll loans. On the board side, we added Jim Allen, former Morgan Stanley senior banker. Additionally, on the advisory side, Nicola Calicchio, former McKinsey head of Brazil, is helping us as a senior advisor to the executive team, while Fernando Ferrari advised us on Treasury and ALM. To conclude, we successfully executed the second year of our 6-30-30 plan, which is key to continue growing and innovating our platform. Now, I'd like to hand it over to Shanji, who will provide more details on the business side. Shanji, please go ahead.

Thank you, João. Hello, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. I'll go through an update of our seven business verticals, which together build our super app platform. As Ron said on the virtuous cycle, we have created a powerful network effect, with clients actively using our account, credit, investments, insurance, marketplace, and global services, all tied together by Loop, our loyalty program. This engagement across our financial super app enables us to effectively cross-sell our products and continuously increase our market share. Attracting customers is a key priority for us, and we're proud to finish one more year adding more than 4 million clients while boosting activation. We finished 2024 with over 36 million clients, achieving a 57% activation rate. Throughout the year, we successfully welcomed more than 1 million new active clients each quarter. Our business clients grew by 21% year over year, reaching a total of 2.2 million. They show high engagement and increased our PAC levels. Now, moving to the next slide, let's take a deeper look into our verticals. In banking, TPV has increased by 45% year-over-year, reaching 1.5 trillion reais run rate in 4Q24. Transactions made through PIX totaled 1.1 trillion reais for the year. In the fourth quarter, Inter gained an additional 14 basis points in PIX market share, reaching 8.3%. Our mix between credit and debit volumes continues to improve, with credit card transaction growth surpassing debit card transaction growth, leading to higher interchange revenues. TPV levels across cohorts is steadily increasing, with newer clients transacting more and faster than older clients. On the credit front, we want to highlight the Consumer Finance 2.0 portfolio, which includes fixed financing, buy-now-pay-later, and overdraft. We started to scale this portfolio this year, and now it stands at almost 700 million reais, a 38% growth quarter over quarter. We're seeing consistent performance from these products from a credit quality perspective, eliminating the need to slow down our underwriting. While we remain cautious in our risk appetite, We found opportunities to underwrite card limits as our credit models continue to evolve, allowing us to better understand our clients. Speaking of client behavior, another innovation this year was the launch of our credit hub, as called CLIM, where clients can follow a step-by-step journey to earn their credit card limits with us. These steps involve actions like bringing their salary, direct deposits to Inter, paying bills before the due date, and more. We allocate small limits as clients complete these steps, and by the end of the journey, we have enough data to provide them with the appropriate credit card limit. Moving to investments on the next slide, we see that AUC increased by 54% on a yearly basis. with active clients growing to over 6.8 million. For the second consecutive quarter, we had record growth in AUC. One highlight of this quarter is that we achieved 20% market share in the number of investors of Tesouro Direto, which is Brazil's Treasury Direct. On the next page, I'll talk about insurance. The performance of this vertical was remarkable in 2024. the charts on the left hand side show the significant growth and penetration we can achieve with the right targeting quality products hyper personalization and contextualized journeys we reached over 5 million active contracts with more than 5 million units sold in 24 achieving a 312 percent growth in the year we raised the bar with the introduction of FGTS life insurance, and Sochezinha, two low-ticket but recurrent products that we offered within existing product journeys. This strategy involves zero marginal cost to attract clients, taking full advantage of our integrated platform. Shifting to our marketplace, we had an exciting year with a 79% year-over-year growth in net revenues, 42% growth year-over-year in GMV that reached nearly R$5 billion, and all that done across more than 6 million active clients. In the fourth quarter, 7% of our on-us GMV was generated through buy-now-pay-later, reinforcing our cross-selling opportunities. This unique combination enables us to leverage our fee revenues while also generating interest income from higher margin unsecured credit operations. In the next page, we highlight our global expansion continuous growth. We reached 3.9 million clients, which is 19% of our active base. The deposits balance increased by 52% in one year. Within this vertical, we typically serve higher-income Brazilians who typically travel and save money in the U.S. We continue evolving on the product offering by replicating the Brazilian products into the U.S. account. Recently, we launched our dollar-denominated credit card, points for our U.S. dollar debit card, purchases, and new investment products. On the next stage, we talk about Loop, our seventh vertical. We finished 2024 with over 11 million clients and continue to evolve in ways for people to earn and burn points. Clients can now redeem points for extra cash back on purchases in our marketplace, transfer points among family and friends, redeem points for PIX insurance, and more. Clients who engage consistently with Loop are among those that are most active within our platform. In the next slide, we talk about market share and show some of the evolution that we've been able to deliver in a few of our products. PIX market share, which reached 8.3%, continues to be a benchmark we use to set the ambition of market share potential for the other products. We are excited with the evolution, both in banking and in non-banking products. Three highlights are FX transactions, the balance of our home equity portfolio, and our FGTS loans, products that are strategic for engagement and profitability. We are confident in our capacity to continue expanding share, and you'll see part of why on the next slide. I finished the business section showing how much room we have to grow. We're operating in markets with enormous stamps and having a large client base facilitates access to a good part of this market. And it explains why our share is moving so fast. Strategies like hyper personalization for activating and retaining clients have optimized our sales efficiency. We're confident that our continuous product evolution, improved client service, and enhanced overall value proposition are key to sustain our positive trends. Now, I would like to pass the word to Santi, who will take us through the financial section.

Thank you, Xande, and hello, everyone. Let's jump into our financial performance. Starting with the loans, this was another year focused on optimizing our capital allocation into our loan book. Our loans reached 41 billion reais, a 33% year-over-year growth, with FGTS and home equity being the highlights, by growing above 50% each. Both these products have the highest ROEs and have been crucial in improving our portfolio mix and expanding our NIM. In credit cards, we surpassed 11.8 billion reais with a 10% quarter-to-quarter and 25% year-on-year growth, showcasing our progress and appetite in the non-collateralized credit underwriting. Personal loans, mainly payroll, is starting to grow with digital underwriting being the main driver. In terms of relative growth, we can see here that we outpaced the market growth in most of our products. FGTS, home equity, and real estate grew approximately twice as fast as the market, gaining significant market share. Credit cards also grew nearly twice as the market, all while improving our asset quality metrics. Meanwhile, personal is re-accelerating despite the runoff of the acquired portfolio and thanks to the success of our digital payroll. In terms of asset quality, we continue improving for the third consecutive quarter, with MPLs from 15 to 90 days standing at 3.4%, and MPLs greater than 90 days decreasing 30 bps to 4.2%. The credit card MPLs, when analyzed across cohorts, continue to show strong performance, validating the progress made in their underwriting models and collection processes. NPL formation reduced to 1.2% as the older, weaker portfolios are decreasing representation in the mix, while our stronger underwriting portfolios are gaining representation in the mix. We can see the evolution of our cost of risk metric, which decreased to 5.0% and presented a very stable trend throughout the year. Furthermore, our coverage ratio increased from 130% to 136. This increase is due to the improvement in the NPLs as seen in the prior page. With this picture and the asset quite different, we are starting 2025 even stronger than what we started 2024 a year ago. On this page, we can see the evolution of our funding franchise, which is one of the key strengths of our business model. We concluded 2024 with over 55 billion reais in funding, growing 10% quarter to quarter and 27% year on year. In terms of mix, we continue to have around one-third of our funding in transactional deposits, which is the main driver of our loan funding cost. Our active clients had, on average, 2,000 reais in deposits, a record level that highlights the primarity relationship with us. The attractive funding mix shown on the prior page enables us to have the lowest cost of funding in the banking industry in Brazil. In the fourth quarter of this year, It stood at 64% of CDI in line with the prior quarters. Here we present our top line, which ended 2024 with over 10 billion reais in total gross revenues and 6.4 billion reais in total net revenues. This year, NII and fee net fees were significantly increasing 37% and 31% respectively. On a quarterly basis, the performance was also very strong, with gross and net revenues growing 10%. Our distribution platform allows us to continue performing strong on the fee side, which accounts to 32% of our net revenues. On the credit front, higher NII growth highlights our ongoing repricing strategies, as well as our focus on higher ROE products, as already mentioned. With higher engagement, we achieved a record monthly RPAC of 33.6 GIs this quarter, marking an 11% growth compared to last year. Hyper-personalization and targeted marketing is becoming a driving force behind the increasing monetization of our clients. We also reached a record margin per active client of 20.6 GIs as we continue to increase the gap between our CTS and our RPAC. We believe this demonstrates our ability to effectively monetize our customer base while capturing economies of scale in cost, as John mentioned, while expanding on the virtual cycle. Let's now deep dive into our net margins. Both are NIM 1.0. which means including in the denominator the non-interest accruals of credit cards, and the NIM 2.0, which excludes these non-interest receivables, are showing an upward positive trend, increasing significantly when compared to a year ago. This is the validation, we think, of our marginal ROE strategy implemented since the beginning of last year. We have been successful on increasing revenue in a faster pace when maintaining expenses under control during the fourth quarter. As a result, our efficiency ratio improved and now stands at 50.1%. Worth mentioning that we continue working on the integration of Interpax, which will be an attractive driver of operating leverage by both improving the cost base while increasing revenue through cross-selling. To conclude, we can clearly see here our journey towards increasing profitability. we have tripled our net income this year, reaching 973 million reais and an 11.7% ROE on an annual basis. Quarterly, our consistency is impressive, in our view, reaching nearly 300 million reais of net income, closing the year with strong momentum that enables us to start 2025 in a position of strength. Now, João will step again to share his closing remarks. Thank you all.

Thank you very much, Sanchi. To conclude, 2024 is a year to celebrate our evolution, discipline, and consistency, not just the results. What a year. As you know, 2025 has already begun, and we're starting it with strong momentum. We are leveraging on technology and innovation, reaching new levels of market share in Brazil, also focusing on operational leverage, reinforcing our strong asset quality metrics, and executing our global expansion plan. I would like to thank all our employees for the amazing 2024 we achieved together. Thank you all. Operator, you can open the Q&A session now. Thank you very much.

We will now begin the question and answer session. Once again, for this Q&A session, we ask you to write down your question via the Q&A icon at the bottom of your screen. Your name will then be announced, and you will be able to ask your question live. At this point, a request to activate your microphone will appear on your screen. If you prefer not to open your microphone live, please write down no microphone at the end of your question, and our operator will read your question out loud. Our first question comes from Mr. Mario Pieri from Bank of America. Sir, we're now opening the audio so you can ask your question live.

Good morning, everybody. Congratulations on the results. We thought it was quite good. It shows the benefits of all of your initiatives over the past year. So it's really a good job that you guys have been doing. Let me ask you, João, a question looking forward. Right, like we've been listening to the incumbent banks talking about a much more cautious outlook for 2025, given the high rate environments in Brazil. Everybody now is guiding for loan growth of about 6% to 8% and best. So I wanted to hear from you your perspective on your ability to continue to grow your loan book near the 30% level and also how How do you expect your net interest margin to behave in these rising rate environments? I know in the past it was negative for you, but I think you have been making changes to your asset liability management strategy. So if you can update us on what to expect on margins and what do you think about loan growth in 2025, that would be great. Thank you. Thank you.

Mario, long speaking. Thank you for the compliments on the earnings. I'm going straight to the point. For those who have been listening to our earnings call for a while and that knows the company for a longer period of time, you all know that we have been taking a very cautious approach about credit and the right since the beginning of the bank. We have been doing that since 1994. We also designed Inter to be a very established, a very diversified credit portfolio platform or bank. We want it to be everything but a monoliner. With that design in place and with this approach, we have always been able to navigate the ups and downs of the macro, mostly in Brazil. That said, Mário, we never had a very spiked growth on credit and write when the market was booming, but we don't foresee a reduce on our growth when the market is not that strong. Also, just remember, not only we're not a monoliner, but most of our credit portfolio has a very good level of collateralization. And last, we have a very good cost of funding that can help us to price our the products, and to cherry-pick the best clients. We need to remember that, unfortunately or fortunately, we don't have 15%, 20% market share in most of the credit portfolios that we operate. We have close to 1%, 1.5%. We have a big address for market. It's still to grow in a 25%, 30%-ish throughout the years, even with some challenge on the macro, okay? And Santi will cover now the impact on the NIMs.

Hi, Mario. Thank you for the question. So on the NIM environment or in the context of an environment of rising rates, as you know, we have been working on being very disciplined on deploying capital in a strong ROE or marginal ROE level. And in addition to that, we have been working to take away volatility of our financials by hedging the originations of the loans that we originated with more than one year of duration since the beginning of 2023. As a consequence of doing that, mainly on the fixed rate loan and on the inflation, we are now marginally positive. two CDI movements in the context of increasing interest rates will have a slightly positive result in terms of NII. So basically what we have been trying to do is to not be volatile or not have additional volatility as a consequence of that. So if we isolate the movement of interest rates, That is playing out. What we have is the ROE of the new loans are coming in stronger than the back book. We have an impact of loan mix that is positive as a consequence of having the higher ROE products gaining representation. If you see now in our loan book, FGTS plus home equity is nearly 20% of the loan book. And in addition to that, we have the newer unsecured credit lines, fixed financing and buy now, pay later, which are slowly but steadily growing, and those also add an improvement into the overall NII. So all of that together, we expect to continue to have the trend that we had last year of around 20 bps on average of growth in the NIM per quarter. It's not linear. It doesn't happen every quarter, but if you see, the NIMS that we had last year from the beginning of 2023 to the end of 2024, that was the average growth per quarter. If we, on top of that, consider the cost of risk, what we have called the risk-adjusted NIM, which is what we care the most about, is an even stronger impact as a consequence of having been able to do a good job in maintaining asset quality very strong. So all of that to say, We don't expect a change in the trend of the increasing NIMs that we had in 2024 coming into 2025, independently of the macro or rate environment that we're seeing.

Very clear. So, to summarize, you're comfortable with long growth 25% to 30% and further NIM expansion in 2025, right?

That's correct. We are.

Thank you very much.

Thanks, Mario.

The next question comes from Mr. Tito Labarta from Goldman Sachs. Mr. Labarta, we're now opening the audio, so you can ask your question live. Please go ahead, sir.

Hi. Good morning. Thanks for the call and taking my question as well. A couple questions, if I can. First on just expenses and efficiency. We did see a slight improvement in efficiency in the quarter, but, you know, expense growth still a little bit elevated. You know, if you look at efficiency, I know you had Interpac this year, so it throws off the numbers a little bit. But how should we think about expense growth in 2025 and continued improvements in efficiency to get to that 30% longer-term target? Just, you know, how much could we potentially see in 2025 or what's the incremental improvement we could see from here? And then just a question on your capital base. I mean, you paid a small dividend. Of course, your one ratio is down to 15.2. I know you have excess capital at the holding, so maybe that compensates it. Just to understand, how are you thinking about capital? What's the right capital ratio in Brazil? And how do you think about the excess capital at the holding? Or how should we think about that? Thank you.

Hi, Tito. This is Xande speaking. Thank you for your question. I'll start with like a 30,000 feet view, and then Santi will deep dive on the expenses. And first point I'd like to highlight is that we're super committed to bringing our efficiency ratio to the 30% ballpark, as per the 633 plan. So we are on pace. We improved in 2024 if we compare to the end of 2023, and we'll keep improving. We did see this spike in the third quarter, followed by an inflection in terms of cost to income in the fourth quarter. And what we're gonna keep doing is working disciplined on the cost reduction initiatives. We have all that institutionalized now. And we're deploying in 2025 new strategies to have company-wide engagement in bringing these numbers towards like the 2027 targets. And, for example, we're deploying cost-to-income in each one of the areas, whether it's a P&L area or whether it's a cost center, so that we keep things in the right direction as we navigate through the quarters.

Hi, Tito. Santiago here, complimenting Tito. So, on the fourth quarter, what we had also was a higher than average volume being processed in the app, which is typical in the fourth quarters, and that increased the expenses of data processing and third-party services. We were able to keep a very tight leash on the advertising and marketing, which performed very well. And then on personal expenses, as we had the different teams meeting their goals, we had more provisioning of variable expenses that hit that quarter. But we do think that we have the expenses under control. As Alexander said, we are measuring absolutely everything. on a high-frequency basis. And going into 2025, the overall expense growth will be a function of the revenue growth. So what we're solving for is an increase in the ROE, and we have variability or flexibility to adjust the expense base depending on the overall level of revenue in order to be able to deliver revenue. the bottom line that we expect to deliver. And finally, on the 60-30-30, the metric where we are ahead the most is this metric of the efficiency ratio. We were able to keep expense fully flat in year one, so we actually ran ahead of that in year one. Year two, it was 2024. The most significant improvement was on the NIM. For 2025, we expect it to be a combination of both to deliver the growing profitability.

Okay, thanks. And just on the capital, how do you think about the capital ratio in Brazil and excess capital at the holding?

Okay, Tito. João speaking here regarding capital in Brazil, abroad, and also I think you mentioned dividend. So, first of all, this has been a top priority for me for a while, how we allocate the best possible way our equity, not only at the whole level but also in Brazil. We have designed the whole cost structure to optimize that, and that's the reason why we are paying JCP, IOC every month to have most of our equity at the whole level. Regarding Brazil, the CT1 at 15% would have been 170 bps higher if we deduct the market-to-market on our NTNB position. So that said, we'll be pretty much flat quarter over quarter. At the end of the day, Tito, we want to leverage more our bank operation Brazil as much as we can with discipline, bringing the best return for our shareholders. We want to keep deploying our capital, not on liquidity, not buying treasury bonds. We want to put on the FGTS, on the payroll loans. So that's what we have been doing recently. So I'm very, very optimistic about that. The returns that this deploy of capital will bring us, such as the 15%, 20% hourly, most likely at the end of 2025. On dividends, we do pay dividends. As we mentioned, we paid dividends actually today. We announced 1.5%, 1.8% dividend yield, which for the shareholder is still not a good one. But we're working to get our dividend yield as big as possible. This is the most relevant thing for our shareholders. But on the other hand, we are a growth company. We're still deploying most of our earnings to keep innovating, growing the portfolio, and expanding our operations. So this is how we see the capital allocation at Inter today. And it's a thing that we are always evaluating what's the best allocation for our shareholders.

Great. Thanks, Joelle. I appreciate that.

The next question comes from Mr. Gustavo Schroden from Citi. Mr. Schroden, we're now opening the audio for you so you can ask your question live. Please go ahead, sir.

Yes, good afternoon and thanks for the call and congrats on the results. My first question is regarding a follow-up on NIMH. I'd like to understand, will you show that your loan-to-deposit ratio is at a 75%? So if we compare with the average of especially the incumbent banks or large banks, do you still have room to increase this leverage So, what should we think about this loan-to-deposit ratio in 2025 and 2026? Should we believe that there is some increase in this loan-to-deposit ratio to the same level of incumbent banks? And my second question is regarding asset quality, the good quarter in terms of NPLs and asset quality indicators. Cost of risk around the 5, 5.1%. What should we expect for 2025 in terms of cost of risk?

Thank you. Thank you for the question. On NIM, it's hard to predict the loan-to-deposit ratio, but what we have been able to see is that on the deposit side, we continue to surprise ourselves on the upside, both in terms of the growth rate as well as in terms of the mix. We've been challenged at how long we would keep the mix, and as a consequence of the mix, the low-cost funding as percentage of CDI, and as the years go by, we are able to keep it. So what we see is that the clients continue to choose Inter primarily because of the transactional essence of the super app, which is reflected on them having their core deposits at Inter. And another proxy of that that we mention a lot to investors is the market shelf peaks, which is high and increasing. It is currently increased to 8.3%. So, all this to say that we would imagine the long-term deposit ratio to stay roughly at this level, potentially going to something closer to 80%. We did like to see the growth in the deposits per active client reaching the 2,000 reais this quarter. And as that continues to happen together with the ROE-driven growth, marginal allocation of capital, we would expect the NIM to continue trending in the same trend that it had in 2024, as I mentioned in a prior question. In terms of asset quality, we have a few pieces playing out. On the one hand, we continue to allocate in certain products that tend to take the delinquency levels to better levels, like, for example, FGTS, home equity, and real estate, but we are taking marginal risk on the unsecured lines, which are risk-added NIM accretive, but they do increase the cost of risk. So we will see which of those two impacts prevails. But overall, we don't see a major change in neither direction, up or down, in the cost of risk of 5% to 5.2% that we've seen in 2024.

Okay, great. Thank you very much.

The next question comes from Mr. Yuri Fernandez from JPMorgan. Mr. Fernandez, we're now opening the audience, and you can ask your question live. Please go ahead, sir.

Thank you for the opportunity of asking questions. And hi, João, Alexandre, Santi. I have one more detail here on tax revenues. It was a little bit higher this quarter from this, and for sure you had higher revenues, but the ratio was higher. And when we look, it's the order inside the tax on revenue. So if you can explain what drove this, if this is sustainable or not, like just for us and the shareholders to understand the line of tax on revenues. And if I may ask a second question here, it's on fees. It has been a good quarter for fees. Interchange and commissions, they are doing fine, making and credit commissions. So if you can provide some color here. on what to expect for fees in 2025, I would also appreciate. And finally, just a follow-up on Tito's on dividends. João, do you really think paying dividends is that important for investors? Because you are, the way I see it, this is a growth company. Your RE is moving up and that's good, but should not be better to keep the dividends inside of Inter, given the growth you have. Thank you.

So on taxes, Yuri, thank you for the question there. So what led to the increase in the Pisco Fins this quarter were two factors. One, the natural growth in revenues. And in addition to that, we paid IOC or Jota Cepeda, like they say in Portuguese, in this quarter in a number close to 160 million reais, which creates Pisco Fins, which is approximately 70% of what we paid in the entire year. We had a bigger payment in that quarter that as a consequence, led to a higher IOC, which we think will normalize to prior quarters starting this first quarter of 2025.

So, we'll take the second one. Yuri, thank you for the question. So, on fee income, we saw nice results in 2024. As per all the work we've been doing in hyper-personalization and launching products that are in the context of our clients' needs, And we see 2025 as a year to keep this trend. So we're diving more into all these hyper-personalized experiences, getting better and better on the choices that we make on products and where to sell which product in the journeys that we already have in the app. We saw that. through the results of the marketplace, which grew a lot in GMV and revenue, and we had also impressive results in the insurance fronts. So we see similar trends in 2025, and we'll keep working to push the limits that we can there.

Yuri, João speaking here. So going back to the dividends topic, it's fun because I have two hats here, controlling shareholder and CEO of the company. So on one side, I like to say that the essence of a company is to reward all the shareholders for the capital that they have invested in that company. So we tend to pay – I love to pay the highest dividend yield on the market. We know that, as you mentioned, we are still a growth story, and therefore, myself, with the head of the CEO of the company, we try to bring the payout ratio down. As long as you can keep, continue building organic capital, so above the threshold that we believe is the cost of the capital in Brazil, whatever, so let's put this 13%, 15% ratio, we will be able to increase that payout throughout the time. I'd like to say that we are designing Inter to be, in a sense, an asset-light platform. We do have our credit portfolio that's grown, as we mentioned, 25% each. But connecting to your questions regarding fees, we're very proud of having 30% of the revenues increased. on the fee side. So as long as we can generate fresh equity, new capital, we can have the fee income kicking in, we will be able to keep paying dividends on this 20%, 25%-ish pattern without sacrificing the growth and the innovation at the end. So that's how I try to balance and to do the right arbitrage generating long-term value for other shareholders of Fintech, and not only short-term value for any type of shareholder.

Thank you, João. It is clear. I ask this because I think you mentioned like yield was super important, and the 20, 25 payout you historically pay, I don't think it sacrificed growth, right, being blank honest with you. But when you said like giving a yield is something super important, I was a little bit concerned that you could do a higher payout or something like this, and it seems not to be the case. So just confirm this. And as you said, I guess your ROE will move up over time, and that's fine, and you can pay more dividends in the future. But just trying to make sure, like the 20, 25 is somewhat the softer guidance you see for the payout. And thank you for the clarity here.

Okay. Thank you, Eric.

The next question comes from Mr. Eric Ito from Bradesco BBI. Mr. Eric Ito, we're now opening the audio so you can ask your question live.

Hi, João. Thanks for the opportunity of asking questions. I have two on my side as well. My first one is a follow-up on your name expansion of 20 BIPs per quarter, as you mentioned, for 2025. I just want to see your expectations maybe on the breakdown of this mix. First, what you see for how much would be for funding. If you see any pressure for your cost of funding as a percentage of CDI potentially increasing because of competition. Then the second, still on this topic, how much your treasury results could grow in 2025. If you see on the fourth quarter, it already increased around 300 million reais. So if we just analyze this fourth quarter, it will be around 30%, 40% growth. So I just want you to understand if that would be one of the main drivers for a NIM expansion as well. And then my second question is specifically on credit cards. There was a strong growth in this quarter, around 25% year on year. But I just want you to explore a bit on your breakdown between transactional and non-transactional portfolio. I think it was the third quarter that we saw maybe a slight decrease in the share of the of the earning yield portfolio in the mix. I guess there's a bit of seasonality here in the fourth quarter, maybe because of more debts. But I just want you to get your sense. As you're growing in consumer finance portfolio, I thought maybe this mix would be increasing in the total share of your credit cards. So I just want you to get your sense on this trend and how we can expect this line to evolve going forward. Thank you.

Thank you, Eric. I will take the first one, Santiago here, and Shanda will take the second one on credit cards. So what we're assuming on the NIM evolution or the continuation, let's say, of the trend that we've experienced in 2024. It's the combination of three factors, as I mentioned. One is the mix will continue to get richer. If you see rural or agribusiness and SMEs, which are thinner margin products, grew significantly less. And in the case of FTS, home equity and real estate associated with inflation grew significantly more. So the mix is playing out a very strong role. On the other hand, we continue to scale up with the consumer finance products, and those are starting on a lower base but are beginning to yield nice returns. The average rate, both in the buy now, pay later and on the PIX financing, is around 6% per month. So it's a very attractive level and very attractive to pay the cost of risk that comes associated with it. And in terms of the funding cost, we are modeling that we will continue in the mid-60s, and we will see how the mix affects this, but we don't expect to deviate too much to something around the mid-60s as percentage of CDI. The factor that we didn't talk before that I'd add here is that we already have around 4 billion reais of the treasury liquidity invested in what we call the structure notes that are tax-exempt. and these yield around 85% of CDI. So, in the NIM, it appears penalized in a way because the benefit of those notes are in the effective tax rate below. But we did add in the press release, and you can probably see that on page 14, we have around 30 bps of additional NIM that comes from the tax adjustment of those notes. So, the impact on NIM is further there, and into 2025, we expect to continue growing that portfolio of structure nodes as the balance sheet grows proportionally to the growth of the balance sheet and that's another thing that we play a key role in the evolution of the I'll pass it to send it to Craig's point Hi Eric

So I'll start maybe complementing a little bit on the cost of funding. So one thing that we developed that's super nice is like we have a good mix of transactional deposits and then the CDs and the LCIs. And within these transactional deposits, we're talking about 20 million people with very small balances. And when they want to invest, when they want the yields, we have the most complete platform to serve them with low-cost products, high-cost products as per their decision. And this has been like a secret to keep our cost of funding down. And we went through a few cycles of high interest rates. and different competitive landscapes, and we've been able to keep this cost of funding low in this 60% little bit more level. Moving to the credit cards, the shape of the portfolio didn't change. So we finished 2024 with 80% being transactors, close to 5% in PIX financing, and the remaining in the mix between revolving and installments, more skilled towards revolving, which is where a lot of the opportunity sits, right? Between this mix in PIX financing, revolving and installments, we are focused on minimizing the revolving, which includes the delinquent, and moving customers towards the installments. We've been implementing different solutions. So, for example, in September, end of September, we implemented an interest rate differential. So that's more favorable to customers to go into installments instead of going to revolving. And we have to remember that typically from revolving to delinquent is faster than from installments to delinquent. So that's kind of what we're doing. We want to change this shape of the portfolio a little bit, increasing the interest earning part. So that would reduce a little bit from the 80 in transactors to say 78, maybe 75 throughout 2025. Thanks, Eric.

Thank you. Just one quick follow-up, if I may, on Cynthia's answer. So maybe for going forward, as you guys expand the portfolio, as you mentioned, Sanchi, that maybe we could still see some addition of structured notes at 85% of CDI, which benefits you with the taxation. Later, can we say that the percentage of yield as a percentage of CDI could decrease on the securities for 2025 because of this effect? Maybe you're going to capture on better taxes, but On the securities portfolio, we could see maybe a slight decrease as a percentage of CDI?

No, because the growth in the structure notes should be proportional to the growth of balance sheets. So we expect the yield on the investment portfolio to remain relatively stable. We did have some catch-up on some investments that we could use to increase the yield. We have the weight of the NTNBs that are approximately 3.8 billion reais that is decreasing because the investment portfolio size is increasing. So when you put all that together, we expect it to remain roughly at the same level that we had in this fourth quarter.

Perfect. Very clear. Thank you, guys.

The next question comes from Mr. Pedro LeDuc.

from itaubba mr leduc we're now opening the audio so you can ask your question live please go ahead sir thank you everyone uh first question on credit cards still a bit we saw interest income on them falling this quarter despite what you mentioned is a stable mix of transactors and not if you can elaborate a little bit on that if it's a strategy of lowering rates And if you're seeing it, sensitivity of volumes picking up in regards to that. And that's the first question. And then second, just a quick technical one. It was gains of capital or others of 39 million this quarter, just making sure that what it was is related to Interpag and if it was cash or not. Thank you.

Hi, Madhuk. This is Shanti speaking. Thank you for your question. So I'll kind of complete the answer of Eric. So as I mentioned, 80% of the portfolio is on transactors. The 20% is mixed. It is like 25% PIX financing and 50% revolving and delinquent and 25% in installments. And so what we need to do, which is our main mission and opportunity to improve the P&L of the credit cards, is to increase this interest earning portfolio, reducing the amount of clients that are delinquent, and moving more of them to installments. As I mentioned, in the end of September, I believe, we implemented an interest rate differential. which was mainly driven to, like, reduce the interest rate on the installment piece of the portfolio. What's the short-term effect that we expected to have by doing this change? We push people into a lower-yield product, still super high rate. We're talking, like, we move it from 14.9 to 11.9, but a lower rate. So it was expected to have a period where we would see smaller revenues. This was by design. But we expect that as we have more customers that are not in delinquency, we're going to increase these revenues through time. That's the strategy. And then there is a super large list of things like collection products, collection policies, and different things. that we're doing in the end of the day to help customers get out of the hardships that they may be going through in terms of their financial lives. Thank you.

And, Edu, on the capital gains question, yes, it is related to the InterPAC acquisition. We performed a purchase price allocation study, which was finalized in the fourth quarter, and as a consequence of that, we booked 30 million reais of recognition in the fourth quarter. That is the one you're mentioning.

Thank you.

The next question comes from Ms. Neha Agarwala from HSBC. Ms. Agarwala, we're now opening the audio so you can ask your question live. Please go ahead, ma'am.

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my question. Sorry if I'm making you repeat any of the things, but two quick questions. First, on the consumer finance portfolio, how is the asset quality evolving versus expectations and what kind of growth? should we expect for 2025 for this particular portfolio? And my second question is on private payroll. We're seeing some changes in this particular domain. Is this an area of interest for Inter, and could we see growth coming as it becomes easier to operate in the private payroll market? Thank you so much.

Hi, Neha. Jean speaking here. Thanks for the question. I'm going to do the first, and Shanji will do the second one. So, consumer finance. I have been sharing with the market, with our shareholders and with most of the market, how excited we are here at Inter to, I would say, reinvent the consumer finance in Brazil. So, we have this consumer 2.0 approach, as we say. We coined this term, actually, and it's working well. It's working really well here, Niha. So we have the Buy Now, Pay Later, so we combine the success of the GMV in our shopping and our commerce platform with our capability of unbetting credit to our consumers. As of today, the delinquents for this portfolio is lower than the delinquents of the credit card, the guys that are using our credit card on the streets. For that product, we have a very good take rate from the merchants that reward us for being the one giving credit to their clients. We have also a very good down payment up front, around 20% to 25% of the price of the product or the service. So this is something that we're doing under the radar, but we're very excited with this product. And I believe that we are the one ahead because we have this combination of commerce and finance here at India. So we have very positive trends for 2025 as well. But again, always underwriting and checking the collection, checking the delinquents to make sure that we're not doing anything wrong. On PIX Finance, also we have been seeing good prints in terms of delinquents, also better than the credit cards. As we evolve, we see that more and more we're trying to bring the credit underwriting for consumer finance inside our ecosystem, getting all the data that we capture from our shopping, from our peaks, and bring them to our ecosystem in order to improve. So we have a positive view for this type of credit underwriting. At the end of the day, having the best risk-reward equation. That's what we look at the end of the day, the best risk-reward equation possible. for our portfolio. So we were very positive on these two products and very excited with the consumer finance 2.0 approach. And Shadi, now we'll cover the other question. Thank you very much.

Joel, just quickly on that, any targets that you can share with us that you might have in mind?

Yeah, Nia, actually, for Q, 7% of our GMV was purchased through our Buy Now, Pay Later. We don't know if it's going to go up to 10, 15, 20, 25. Actually, we have a working group at Inter really, really focused on that to make sure that the delinquents that we see today will persist, that we're not looking on a... that we're not too optimistic about that, but we really think that we are cracking the code on this consumer finance. So, hard to give a guidance, but again, so far, good delinquents and good reward, very good reward, good take rates from the industry. The industry needs to reward us, the banks. for our ability to provide credit. So this combination has been performing very well. This is a concept that we envisioned, I'd say, maybe three or four years ago. And, again, inter-approach is always step-by-step, step-by-step, underwriting, collecting, and learning. But I'm very optimistic about this product.

Hi, Niha. Thank you for your question. And quickly filling in on João's point on the Consumer Finance 2.0, we're excited about what we did in 2024. And one of the things that we've been focusing both on credit cards and on the Consumer Finance 2.0 is on driving the outcome of delinquency. If we can drive the outcome, we feel more comfortable in growing. And we're seeing that. So every time we see early stage delinquency, we've been able to adjust policies, adjust models, and drive the outcome on the next reading. And that makes us comfortable to keep with a steady growth in the portfolio. Moving to the private payroll loans, we see that a super promising new addressable market. We're estimating a market between 100 and 200 billion to begin with. The precedent that we set on the FGTS loans being able to do like more than 500,000 contracts a month without a single human intervention is strong to believe that we can be a very competitive player. We're going to be ready on day one. So whenever this product is there, we're going to be there on the very first day. something that we didn't do on the FGTS, by the way. So we're going to start on day one. And finally, there is still a lot of information missing so that we can give more color. So as time progresses and the government unveils the details, I'm sure we're going to be talking more and be able to better estimate what's the impact of that in our business.

Thank you. Very clear. Thank you so much, Alejandro. Just quickly on the GMV for the marketplace, despite strong seasonality in the fourth quarter. We did not see a big pickup in the GMV. Any reasons for that?

So, sorry, could you repeat because you're breaking a little bit?

On the marketplace business, typically fourth quarter has strong seasonality. We did not see a big pickup in the GMV for the marketplace in fourth quarter. Sequentially, Is there any specific reason for that?

Yeah, I actually had a big spike on 4Q, which agrees a very good seasonality for it. And when you look year over year, we grew almost 40% on the GMV for the marketplace. And also, more and more, we're starting to develop new service offerings, not only goods offerings there. So, we believe that combining... goods and service, we can keep growing the GMV on this 40%-ish, 50%-ish year-over-year. So very excited with the success of the inter-shopping initiative that started five years ago.

Perfect. Thank you so much, Antti. Very helpful.

Thank you very much, Lina.

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the floor back over to Mr. João Vitor Menem for his closing remarks.

Again, everyone, thanks for taking the time to listen for our earnings call. We're beginning 2025. On our end, everyone excited, energized, focused on delivering. I would say a very strong year for Inter as we did in 2024. Thank you very much. See you soon. Bye-bye.

This conference is now concluded. Inter-IR area is at your disposal to answer any additional questions. Thank you for attending today's presentation. Have a nice day.