Banijay Group N V

Good evening and welcome to Baninjay Group's 2025 full-year results webcast. This is Louise Racine. I recently joined as head of investor relations. Before we start, let me draw your attention to the disclaimer on slide two. I also want to remind you that this presentation is now available on the company's website and a recording of this call will be accessible in the coming days. Your speakers today are Francois Riailly, our CEO, and Sophie Curings Leclerc, our CFO. First, Francois will present our key financial and business highlights for the full year. Sophie will then cover the results in more detail before Francois provides some concluding remarks. We will then open the call for questions. Over to you, Francois.

Thank you, Louise. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us again this week. I hope you're not fed up with Banerjee Group. We are pleased to present strong full year 2025 results. In a challenging market environment, Banijay Entertainment demonstrated a resilient performance with strong growth of Banijay Live as we continue to scale our IP through immersive experiences and produce major sports ceremonies across the world. Adjusted EBITDA increased by around 6% for this division with a strong margin improvement. Banijay Gaming delivered a double-digit revenue growth with strong momentum across all products. This was driven by 23% growth in unique active players and effective cross-selling. This is particularly impressive when you consider the high comparison base with 2024, which included both Euro 2024 and the European Games. It also delivered a double-digit adjusted EBITDA growth despite French tax increase. This performance clearly demonstrates the strength and effectiveness of our diversification strategy. Adjusted EBITDA increased by 8.6%, reaching the upper range of our guidance with 100 basis point margin improvements, reflecting continued cost control and operational efficiency. Before turning to the detailed review of our 2025 financial performance, Let me briefly comment on our recent strategic developments. We have been very active, I'm sure you will agree on that, in consolidating our markets, fully aligned with the ambitions set out at our Capital Markets Day in May 2025. Following the announcement in October 2025 of the acquisition of a majority stake in Tipico Group, reinforcing our leadership in sports betting and online gaming. We announced on Tuesday a strategic partnership with Redbird IMI to combine BanyJay Entertainment and All3Media to create a global media and entertainment powerhouse. This combination will give us an enhanced scale, deeper IP ownership, and greater exposure to structural growth drivers, reinforcing our long-term positioning. Zooming in on our 2025 results at constant currency and current scope of operations, we delivered a revenue growth of 3.4%. This translated into 8.6% adjusted EBITDA growth, reaching 961 million euros, and 6.3% growth of the adjusted net income, which is at current effects, unlike the two other metrics. Adjusted free cash flow generation stood at 780 million euros, resulting in a high level of cash conversion at 81%, again in line with guidance. Adjusted operating free cash flow reached 584 million euros, with a conversion rate of 65%, excluding one-off effects. Our leverage improved to 2.7 times, a 0.2 time reduction compared to the end of 2024. Finally, we are proposing a dividend of 35 cents per share, representing a 33% payout ratio as per our guidance. Let's move to business highlights now, starting with our content production and distribution business. Once again, 2025 showcased the unmatched scale of our content production and distribution leadership. At the end of 2025, our catalog grew to more than 220,000 hours of content. We had 30 formats traveling across three or more geographies. And we launched over 350 new shows during the year. 350. This includes 80 180 titles with global streaming platforms such as Netflix, Apple TV+, and Paramount+, which is unmatched in the industry. Revenue from streamers now represents 23% of our production and distribution revenue. From a scripted perspective, we doubled our production revenue in English language content with streaming platforms, and that's just the beginning if you think of the all-free media deal. House of Guinness on Netflix was a major success with over 61 million viewers. The Buccaneers was a top 10 hit in multiple territories and has been recommissioned for a third season. And NCIS Sydney season three on Paramount Plus reached 4.7 million viewers with a fourth season order. On the unscripted side, our focus is scaling formats through local adaptations. LOL on Amazon launched in the Nordics, the US, France, Italy, and also the UK, where it was the number one unscripted new launch across all platforms. The local adaptation of Temptation Island was launched on Netflix for the first time. I think if we had been saying five years ago that Temptation Island would be on Netflix, I think we would not have believed that. and it was crowned the best performing non-scripted program globally on the platform with Season 2 commissioned for 2026. The 50 Shaolin Heroes and The Summit continue their international expansion with six versions commissioned to date for each format which show our capability to roll out formats globally. Moving to live experiences now, which has performed exceptionally well this year. In 2025, we more than doubled the number of events produced, reaching over 33,000, representing an average of eight events produced per day, including the independent shows. Badditch Wonder Studios delivered major international sports ceremonies throughout 2025, including the opening and closing ceremonies of the FIFA World Cup of Clubs, the African Cup of Nations and the UEFA Women's Euro, as well as the UEFA Champions League final kick-off show, which was very important because Paris Saint-Germain won, demonstrating our ability to execute large-scale, globally broadcast productions across continents. Most recently, many of you have watched the opening ceremony of the Milano Cortina Winter Olympic Games, which we proudly produced. The ceremony was seen by 2.5 billion people around the world, and it was widely praised globally. and according to IOC data, was regarded by a strong majority of viewers, I think by 70% of viewers, as the most memorable winter opening ceremony ever. A clear illustration of the creative ambition and execution capabilities of our live business. And of course, this type of event is the best demonstration of capability for the future events. On the immersive experiences side, Lochi, which we acquired in early 2025, has been a remarkable success story. In just one year, we have launched 16 new shows, opened in four new countries in partnership with Banija Entertainment's local labels. We tripled the number of tickets sold to approximately one million. And we are now producing around four shows per day on average. We are excited by the potential of our live business, and we will continue to seek out opportunities to rapidly scale IP in this way, leveraging our global production footprint, and tomorrow, all free media as well. Moving now to Vanigy Gaming, which continues to drive outstanding profitable growth. As I say, every quarter, unique active players is the most important KPI for the commercial performance of the platform, as the margin can be volatile with results. And this grew 23% year-on-year to 2.3 million. This is particularly impressive given the absence of major global sports events in 2025, such as the World Cup or the Euro. This sustained growth was enabled by our relentless focus on our tech platform and user experience. BetClick is the number one downloaded sports betting app in all its markets, enhanced with a recent major cloud-based upgrade and new features such as AI-powered recommendations. And we are preparing a new release for the World Cup. Our multi-product strategy continues to deliver strong results, with cross-selling between sportsbooks and other activities, namely casino and poker, reaching 35%, which is remarkable. In online casino, we launched 280 new casino titles, 20% of which were original or exclusive games, and successfully entered Ivory Coast in early 2025. Our new proprietary poker platform, launched at the end of 2024, has also performed strongly, driving player growth, engagement and monetization. These multi-product capabilities, combined with our strong technological foundations, become even more strategic in the context of the typical acquisition, with clear synergy opportunities already identified. It's also true for potential regulatory upsides. That's all from me for now. I'll be back at the end with some closing remarks before we open the line for questions. But over to you, Sophie.

Thank you, François. Let's start with Group Revenue for the full year, where we delivered 3.4% growth at constant exchange rates and current scope to reach almost 4.9 billion euros. As François mentioned earlier and has already highlighted during our nine-month results, 2025 was a challenging year for the global content production and distribution industry. On the gaming side, we delivered double-digit growth despite a high comparison basis in 2024. Group adjusted EBITDA increased by 8.6% to €961 million at constant exchange rates and current perimeter, reaching the upper end of the guidance range. The strong performance also translated into one percentage point expansion of the adjusted EBITDA margin, reaching 19.7%. This was driven by the increased contribution from Banerjee Gaming, which has a higher margin, combined with efficient cost control in both businesses. Moving next to our P&M. The operating profit increase of more than 25% was driven by the strong adjusted EBITDA growth and the significant decline in LTIP expense as anticipated. The improvement in the financial result reflects the successful repricing and refinancing of our debt at better conditions as well as the fair value changes in financial instruments including hedging, put options and earn out debt together with foreign exchange loss and gains. Income tax expense increased in line with activity growth while our effective tax rate improved meaningfully to 35% compared to around 42% last year. adjusted net income rose by more than 6% in line with adjusted EBITDA growth. Let's move to results by business, starting with content production, distribution, and live experience. Revenues were resilient, up 0.4% at constant exchange rates and current perimeter. Looking at revenue by activity, Content production was done slightly, reflecting broader softness in the market and cautious commissioning from broadcasters. Distribution revenue decline of 5.4% reflects the condition in the production market and a different mix between streaming platforms and linear broadcasters in the sale of scripted hits. The standout performer was Live Experience and Other, which grew 20.3%, driven by the successful roll-out of Loci's luminescence experience across France and internationally, and the strong performance of BH Wonder Studio with the delivery of major sports ceremonies. Looking at earnings and cash flow now for the business line, adjusted EBDA was up 5.7% at constant exchange rates and current perimeter, with margin improving 80 basis points to 16.6%. This improvement reflects a favorable mix in production margins, particularly on some major scripted shows and cost control on production budgets. Higher capex reflects increased third-party distribution advance advantage rights, investment in Mochi, and continued investment in digitalization. Adjusted free cash flow conversion stood at a solid 72%. The improvement in working capital reflects timing effects on long-term distribution contracts and different phasing between show delivery and cash collection. Income tax paid was higher, mainly reflecting payments to the Tax Consolidation Group with no impact at group level. Adjusted operating free cash flow increased by almost 2%, reaching more than €309 million. Sports betting and gaming next where we saw strong revenue growth of 10.2% at constant exchange rates and current perimeter reaching 1.6 billion euros of revenue. Sportsbook revenue were at 6.8% supported by 23% growth in unique active players and sustained player interest during major competitions such as the new format of the Champions League. This is a remarkable outcome, given the high comparison basis with 2024, as well as the impact of adverse sports results in September 2025 that did not fully reverse by year-end, as we communicated at our nine-month results. Casino, poker, and turf revenues were at 22%, also an outstanding performance. This reflects effective cross-selling between products, the successful launch of online casino in Côte d'Ivoire in early 2025, and the strong performance of our proprietary online poker platform in France. Looking at earnings now, Banijay Gaming continues to deliver solid profitability and generate strong free cash flow. AGC De Bilda was up 12.6% at constant exchange rates and current perimeter. The adjusted EBITDA margin improved to 26.7%, driven by continued cost discipline, including lower marketing costs. This was partially offset by higher betting tax in France, which came into effect in July 2025. Adjusted free cash flow conversion remains extremely high at 93%. Adjusted operating free cash flow was temporarily impacted by one-off items as highlighted at our nine-month results. These include one-offs related to the exceptional 2024 performance with cash outflows occurring in 2025, notably performance-related payouts and an exceptional 27 million euro income Pax catch-up linked to strong 2024 results. Excluding this one-off, adjusted operating free cash flow was up 10.8%, which is more reflective of the underlying performance of the business. From a cash flow perspective, Group adjusted free cash flow reached 780 million euros resulting in a cash conversion rate after CapEx and its payments of 81% fully in line with our full year guidance. Adjusted operating free cash flow was 584 million euros with a conversion rate of 65% excluding one-off effects mentioned earlier. The Group's net debt stands at 2.57 billion euros, representing a leverage of 2.7 times, an improvement of 0.2 times compared to the end of 2024. We continue to have a very strong liquidity position with a positive cash balance of 494 million euros and 280 million euros of un-drawn secured credit lines. That's all from me. I will now hand back to François for some concluding remarks.

Thank you, Sophie. So, as you can see, 2025 was an over year of strong results. I think the most important one I would like to underline is adjusted EBITDA of 8.6% And this is a strong performance against a high comparison basis in 2024. And in a quiet year with a new year with a quieter sports calendar, and an environment for production distribution, which was tough in 2025. Just a few months after our 2025 Capital Markets Day, we translated our strategy into action with two transformative transactions across our two core businesses. So I think 2025 was a great year for us strategically, financially, operationally. In 2026, we expect a robust growth across all our businesses. On content production and distribution, we anticipate more growth on revenues and probably a slightly lower margin rate due to a different revenue mix. As Sophie mentioned earlier, I think the revenue mix this year was a little bit special. On live, we also expect a very good growth continuing. On Banijay Gaming, It will be a very strong year and a very active year because of the sports event and especially including the Football World Cup in the summer with more teams than ever. It will be key to attract and retain new clients as we usually do both in BetClick and Tipico every two years. So very strong growth of revenues to expect in our gaming business. And as a reminder also to take into account in 2026, we will also see the full impact of the French tax because the French Act was implemented in July of last year. We look forward to updating you on our strategic roadmap on March 26th. including our refreshed mid-term guidance reflecting our two major developments. Before that, let me share a high-level view of what Baninjay Group will look like post transactions. With the acquisition of Tipico, we significantly expand the scale of our gaming activities, reinforcing our leadership in sports betting and online gaming, and increasing our exposure to structurally growing cash-generative activities. In parallel, the acquisition of All Free Media and the strategic partnership with Redbird IMI creates a scaled global content leader with enhanced IP ownership, greater international reach and a strengthened competitive position in a consolidating market. This represents a step change in the scale, diversification, and earnings profile of Banijay Group. On a combined basis, the Group would have approximately €7.4 billion of revenues and €1.6 billion of adjusted EBITDA in 2025, as well as strong free cash flow generation, and we also mentioned yesterday a leverage ratio at the end of 2026 around three times. As mentioned a few minutes ago before we take your questions, I hope you can join us for our upcoming strategic update on March 26 where we will provide an update on our strategy and midterm outlook reflecting these two major operations. I look forward to sharing more with you then. That's all from me. Thank you for your attention and back to you, Louise.

Thank you. As a reminder to ask a question you will need to press star 1 1 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question please press star 1 1 again. If you wish to ask a question via the webcast please type it into the pop box and click Submit.

We will take our first question.

And the question comes from the line of David Amorin from Berenberg. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Bonjour, François. Bonjour, Sophie. Thank you for the presentation. Can you hear me?

Yeah, very well, David.

Just a couple of questions for me. First, during Q3, you mentioned the facing of some project that was expected to reverse in Q4. This does not seem to have happened. Could you please provide more information on this and explain why it didn't go as expected? Secondly, as you mentioned during the presentation, Football World Cup will start in June 2026. I know that you are not giving specific guidance for 2026 today, But is it reasonable to expect BetClick to deliver a strong performance similar to the 2024 when results were boosted by the European Football Championship? And finally, I would like to come back to yesterday's announcement about all free media. You will continue to fully consolidate the new entity and new accounts, which I assume means you will keep managerial control. Who will have the final say on major operational decisions or any future M&A decisions? Thank you.

Thank you. I will take your two last questions. Maybe I'll leave the first to Sophie, but I'll start with your last question. Yes, we have governance rights. that allow us to consolidate and then to control the company but of course you know it's a 50-50 partnership which means that when it comes to a significant M&A if you were to do a large M&A deal of course we would need to agree with our partners at the sense of being partners of course then but as you can see it's really we keep as you say the operational drive and also the fact that Marco Bassetti is going to be the CEO of the Combined Entity. I think it gives a sense of the fact of how it will happen. On your second question about World Cup. Yeah, you know, that's for in this business every two years, you have a big event. World Cup is even bigger than Euro, where people are getting more interested in watching the games, in betting, and it becomes the actuality of everyone to speak about the World Cup, etc. So that's a very strong moment for engagement and increasing the revenues. and there's no reason why 2026 should be different from the I would say the even years that we have and it would be true also for Tipico which will also have a boost. But that's why we announced previously that we were not going to start the integration of BetClick and Tipico before the World Cup. Today, our teams in BetClick, and I'm sure it's the same at Tipico, they are completely focused to prepare this event because it means to prepare new features in the application and to have everything ready to make the most of this event. Maybe Sophie on the first question?

Yeah. So yes, we mentioned the saving in terms of commissioning and delivery of the shows during the Q3. And that's also why we said that we would be on the low digit, low single digit in terms of revenue growth. During the Q4, as I mentioned during the presentation, clients were still cautious in terms of commissioning but we finally grew by 0.4% our revenue which is in this tough market a good performance and also we are very confident in 2026 because we expect as mentioned earlier by Francois an increase in the growth of our revenue. So we are more positive and we will see a higher growth of this revenue in 2026.

Very cool. Thank you.

Thank you. We will take our next question. And the question comes from the line of Annick. Math from Bernstein, please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi there. So my question is also on the midterm expectations of the content growth market. I think, I mean, you just told us that you expect these revenues to grow in 2026, but I guess if you think about it, midterm, previously you talked about mid-single digit growth, and that was in light of streamers already optimizing their spend, but what comes I feel more and more clear, at least across all of the European broadcasters, is that programming costs are much more contained, not only going into 26, but all the broadcasters speak about programming costs being contained also midterm. So I was just kind of interested to understand how you were thinking about the content growth market, you know, beyond 26. Thank you.

I have a good news. I need you just have three weeks to wait for for that because we that's exactly what we are going to to to talk about in our strategic update. So we will have an updated view on what we see for the next year. Of course, it will include our acquisitions, but it's not just a mechanical, you know, inclusion of our acquisitions. We will give you our best view on the future on the occasion of this update on March 26.

Okay, thank you. Thank you. We will take our next question. Your next question comes from the line of Giovandon Maggiathan from Investcorp. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Hi, guys. Thank you for taking my question. My first question was just on the entertainment segment. You initially guided for EBITDA to be slightly declining in Q4, but it's turned out to be flat due to some margin expansion. Can you just explain how you're able to achieve this margin expansion in Q4?

I don't remember that we said anything about the margin in Q4. You know, the margin is not... It's a wild animal in a way, because it's not the same margin depending on the type of programs you have. As Sophie was mentioning, for example, I think a good example here is the fact that when you deliver some scripted show, big scripted show at a streamer, there's a better margin in production, but also you lose some revenues on distribution. So the margin can be a little bit moving, but if you look at our track record, I would say it's moving by 1 or 1.5%, but all in all, in average, it has remained very consistent. Here, this year, we believe the margin is a little bit higher than I would say the normal, but it's linked to the type of products we have delivered to the market. But there's nothing special about our margin in Q4.

Got it. That's very helpful. And then the last question for me was, do you see any kind of disruption from the conflict in the Middle East, particularly towards your entertainment segment?

I'm also your live event segment stinking if you have any kind of major events in the pipeline in the Middle East which could be potentially be affected with the current conflict thanks yeah also of course we are following and monitoring the situation closely and in fact currently in the Middle East as you know it's time for Ramadan so We had no events planned at this time of the year. It's not a busy time of the year. So for the moment, we don't have really an impact on our business. But then, of course, it will depend how long it will last. 2026, our live events business has a lot of stronger production already planned. Of course, I was talking about the Olympic Games in Milan, which is already done. We also have the ceremony of the World Cup in America during the summer. So I think, you know, if the war lasts long, which of course none of us hope, it can have an impact on our life business. but today it's too early to say. We'll update accordingly.

Thanks. And are you able to guide just roughly what percentage of revenue for the entertainment business, what percentage comes from the Middle East as a region?

No, we have a very little exposure to Middle East, in fact. That's only our ceremonies business is really as a significant exposure in the Middle East. For the rest of, which is relatively smaller in the whole of our content production business, the rest of our content production business is very limited in the Middle East. Okay, thank you.

Thank you. Once again, if you wish to ask a question, please press star one, one on your telephone. We will take our next question. And the question comes from the line of Anna Patrice from Berenberg. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

Yes, hello. Can you hear me, please?

There you are, Anna.

OK, thank you. Thank you so much for all the information provided. A couple of questions from my side. One is a follow-up on the growth in their entertainment business. So as my colleague said, there was previously guidance of meet the five single-digit growth. Also, there were some delays. The structural station is challenging. What is your visibility for 2026? So you said that there should be some improvement and probably some growth. What is the visibility and what kind of growth should we expect on the underlying basis, so without the acquisition in this segment? That's the first question. And the second question, on the long-term incentives one, on the P&L line, the charges were lower than last year, so what should we expect going forward? Thank you.

Sorry, on the last question, we didn't understand what...

Long-term incentive class, the charges on the P&L were lower here over here, so what should we expect for this year? What do you think? On the cash flow and on the P&L, please.

So as we explained on the LTIP expense, we expected this decrease and we expect it to be also the case in the following years because this is a question of vesting period of the different LTIP plans. So we always mentioned a percentage of LTIP expense from 6 to 10% of the EBDA and it was on an average basis as it was higher than 10% in the past year. This is why now we are decreasing to have this average rate over eight years. So we expect to have the same kind of percentage of EBDA in the future. The first question is the visibility for 20... Well, if I understood well, the first question was the visibility for 2026 in terms of growth of content production business, right?

Yes, exactly. Yes, yes, yes.

So, as we mentioned to you, we expect growth to be driven by increasing demand for non-scripted formats from many global streaming platforms as well as a solid pipeline of scripted deliveries. We expect margin to be somewhat lower than in 2025 because we had high margin scripted shows delivered in 2025. and at the same time we anticipate to have the same strong dynamic on the live event part in 2026.

Sorry, but on the content we don't expect, on the content and distribution we don't expect acceleration, growth acceleration.

We don't expect what, sorry? Growth. Acceleration, no. Well, we expect a growth, but I don't know what you mean by that.

We don't give this guidance. We will explain in the floor. During our update on the

again on March 26th you will have our best view on the markets and how it evolves etc on the next years in 2026 you know we have a good visibility that's why we can say that the growth will be good but we don't want to give an update on 2026 given all the transactions we have okay thank you

thank you there seems to be no further questions from the audio if you wish to proceed with the webcast questions yes thank you so there are several questions about the liquidity of the stock and what are the projects on that of course it's our top top priority as unfortunately the stock cannot yet

Reflect the value of the company given the low level of of trading. So we are working on it and the strategic update on March to 26 is The first step we have to take to update the financials So we'll update more when when we can but we are clearly working on it

then maybe another question about so can you please comment what were your plans about the independence collection should we assume the exercise is out of the picture after the two large corporate transactions in the last couple of months

I think the question to exercise the call on the independent will be linked only to how we see the merits of exercising this call. Of course, the combination with All Free Media and the fact that we have a strong partner with Redbird IMI Of course, they have a new partner, so they have also to agree on that, even if we can exercise their agreement. But I think the sense of the partnership is that we want also to discuss that with them. So there's no mechanics. It's not because we have done these transactions or because that we are not going to exercise and it's not because we are going to get some cash from the whole free deal that we are going to exercise. So it's just we are discussing with the funders. We are considering the core exercise and we have still time to make our decision and we make our decision based on what we think is the best interest of the company in terms of operations and financials.

One question on AI. What could be the impact of AI on your content and production?

So I think, of course, AI is a major innovation and a major element in many industries. So far, what we see, we are already using AI to optimize our production costs to improve our efficiency. This is a work in progress, like in many industries, but it's progressing well. On the second element, I would say is we see a very potential positive impact of AI on our capacity to monetize our catalog. Clearly, we want to be in a situation to use AI to create automatically clipping, best of, highlights, et cetera, with just a prompt. And we have an immense catalog, which is today underexploited. It's a gold mine that we just use the surface. And AI is going to help us to monetize that far better. And of course, we are investing in that, and we are working on that. and with all free media joining us, it will add catalog and capabilities. Then I think the longer term view, I think AI is lowering the cost of making videos, especially on the scripted side. So what we believe is that in this context it enhances and it increases the importance of IP. IP is a very crucial element moving forward. So we have a lot of IP. We are going to get more IP with all free media. And we believe that's a very strong asset to have in AI forward world. So, of course, nobody knows exactly what will happen in five years, et cetera, how it will develop, but we believe we are very well positioned for that. And if I just add, sorry, just one more word, I think, you know, the deal with Warner deal shows the value of IP. I think what has really driven to this fight between Netflix and Paramount is the quality and breadth of IP of Warner. So I think it gives an idea of how the IP is becoming more and more valuable and important.

And we have your view on margin evolution expected in 26 in gaming business, given strong sports events, but tax impact in France.

Yeah, I think the taxing pact will weigh on our margin. What you can see is that in 2025, we have been able to manage that. Also, you have to balance with the marketing savings. So we will try as much as possible to maintain our margin despite despite this increase, but yeah, mechanically, the impact is negative on our margin.

However, we anticipate a continuous momentum across the world, across our sports book and thanks to the larger sports even in 2026. So that's also why we anticipate to increase our

and then to offset this impact.

Thank you. We will take our next question on the audio. Please stand by. Your question comes from the line of David Amorim from Berenberg. Please go ahead. Your line is open.

David Amoran from Berenberg.

Your line is open. Please ask your question. Please check you've not muted your line.

Hello, can you hear me? Yeah, we can hear you now. Sorry, I was muted. Just two quick follow-up questions for me. What was the marketing expenses as a percentage of sales in 2025 for the gaming side? And do you feel comfortable with the current Bloomberg consensus that forecast organic double digit growth on the gaming side and meet single digit organic sales growth on the entertainment side in the next two to three years?

No, we don't want to do our strategic update now, David. So we are not going to answer to the second question. And actually, I think we are never going to comment on the consensus.

Sophie maybe on the first question so regarding the marketing expense we we are between six and eight percent of the revenue nobody speaking without the bonus

Maybe just one word about that. In France, the increase in taxes included an increase on a tax on advertisement. So that has led also to a reduction of the advertisements in France. thank you there are no further questions I would like to come back for closing remarks so I don't have really closing remarks except that we expect you know you will be there on the strategic update on March 26 but with so many questions on the what will be the growth coming moving forward I'm sure you will be usually there and would be very happy to to update and So thank you for attending and see you very soon.