Bper Banca Spa Unsp/Adr

Good afternoon. This is the conference call conference operator. Welcome and thank you for joining the conference call of the PeopleBanker Group's consolidated nine-month results. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Should anyone need assistance during the conference call, they may signal an operator by pressing star and zero on the telephone. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Pierluigi Montanici of the Beeper Banker Group. Please go ahead, sir. Thank you, thank you, and good evening, everybody. Thank you for joining. I'm here with my colleagues, in particular with Gianluca Santi, Deputy General Manager, the CFO, the manager responsible for the financial information, Fabio Pilatti, for investor-relators. We're very happy with the results of this third quarter. The nine-month results are extremely positive, and they confirmed the growth strengths observed year-to-date, combined with increasing core business profitability, further improvement in credit quality, and a solid capital and liquidity position. As far as profitability is concerned, the net profit for the nine-month period amounts to $1,466,000,000 and includes $1,041,000,000 worth of non-recurring items, primarily accounted for by the badwill recognized following the acquisition of Karijai. Net of this amount, net profit totals $425,000,000. Net recurring profit for the third quarter amounts to $108.6 million after payment of $123.3 million in Italian banking system contributions, reflective of robust profitability, which from this quarter also includes the contribution of Banca Carice. As far as Banca Carice is concerned, I'm pleased to say that the bank is a break-even. And as far as this quarter is concerned, in terms of volumes, volumes are on a strong year-to-date uptrend on the back of both Banca Carige's onboarding since the second quarter and the positive commercial input that we have already had an opportunity to observed in the previous quarters. Net of courageous contribution, direct funding was up 1% and net loans to customers were up 1.7%. Gaining lending support to households and businesses continued with new loans in the first nine months of 2022 totaling $12.6 billion. In the previous quarter, I remember we hinted at this figure, which was close to this level. As far as credit quality is concerned, we have recorded further improvements with growth NPE ratio down to 4.2%. Last time we communicated 4.3% in the previous quarter. And the net NPE ratio is now at 1.7%. It was 1.8% in the previous quarter. All of this It's combined with further improvements in the coverage ratios, so the non-performing loans are at 61.7% versus 61.3% and bad loans were at 75.6% and now they are up and UTPs were at 46% and they have improved and bonus, so the performing loans are at 0.68%. The banks capital strength is confirmed with the performer fully faced ct1 ratio that including the full benefit deriving from courageous dta settles at 13.2 percent so this is the over role overview of uh of the of the quota and i will give the floor to um john luca santi and the cfo so that will illustrate the details i would say that uh The CEO has already commented the overall situation. We will go into the specific details just for some qualitative comments. As you can see in slide 6, the path has already been developed for the acquisition of Banca Caridia in the third quarter of 2022. We completed the mandatory tender offer and there was a subsequent sell-out process with BIPA reaching 96.1%. stake in Banca Carice and in the fourth quarter just last weekend there was the approval of the acquisition of Banca Carice and Banca Montediluca in Zubipa and IT migration is scheduled for the 28th of November 2022. Just I'm recollecting all of the numbers and Carice really brought about 800,000 customers to the bank and 10.2 billion in AOM and life bank insurance and 10.3 billion in net loans, and 14.3 billion in direct deposits. Moving on to an analysis of the direct and indirect deposits of the group, growth was by 15.1% year-to-date, and if we look at the entire period, the growth was outstanding, and also in the last quarter it was because it happens through the retail customers. So there's a good positioning and a good growth, which is a very good indicator for banks in this very moment. In indirect deposits, a further comment I would like to make is that the market effect since the beginning of the year had an impact of 14%. So the impact of this market will reverberate and translate into $20 billion. It does reverberate and translate into $20 billion as of September 2022. But it's important to say that assets under management has been confirmed as a positive contributor for the three quarters. And in this quarter, having good assets under management is a good... So we've got five... to one, I think, as a ratio between direct and indirect. But with the Carige and the former Ubi customers, we've been able to contribute to this sector significantly. Looking at loans, net customer loans, the growth year-to-date is 14.8%, 1.7% change on a like-for-like basis. Out of the 90 billion net customer loans, we've got 8.3 billion that are state guaranteed. What is important is that new loans have reached 12.6 billion, and once again, this bears witness to the fact that the customer base we have achieved makes it possible for us to develop a strong commercial effort and the expectations for 2023 are that the situation may be reversed so that the short term will go up because inflation and the price increase will especially for businesses lead to an increasing need for liquidity and so the trend may be reversed in the future. As far as asset quality is concerned, strong asset quality is confirmed in Q3 2022 with declining NPE ratios and coverage further strengthened. So we're now at 4.2% in the NPE ratio. NPE coverage has been further strengthened. bad loans at 77.9% and UTPs at 47.3%. There's the consolidation of Carrija that has brought in about 150 million in net loans, which means that if we had to analyze one, we only had to analyze BIPER, we would be at 64% in terms of NPE coverage. 0.68% of performing loans coverage is very important. with 4.3% for Stage 2 loans. We are among the best in class, and I would say that with the disposals by the end of the year, we should be able to be positioning among the best in the Italian banking system. As far as the financial assets portfolio is concerned, we can say, as you can see in the slide, that our portfolio is made up of you know 36 percent is Italian government bonds out of the total we had braced for and we were ready in the past to actually also acquire courageous government bonds and so from 8.6 we are now at 10.6 but with people that had gone down to 8.3 precisely to prepare for this import from Karija and as you can see the duration is 2.1 years in total bonds and 2.2 years so a little bit higher for Italian government bonds we have tried to you know give you an overview of the quarters of both Beeple and Karija by obviously also calculating pro forma and taking away all of the one-off or non-recurring items. And I would say that by comparing Solo, Beeper on a standalone basis, and you may remember that last time we had not yet consolidated the data profit and loss, but now the variation is only in terms of personnel costs because of a two-fold effect, seasonality effect and holidays, basically, on the one hand, but also we're starting to perceive also the reduction in the headcount. So 533 people have gone away. Now in the nine-month period, we are at 600 people. exits and so we will start to benefit from these reductions in the headcount over the next quarters too. Then, as compared to the second quarter, there's a difference then also in contributions to the Italian banking system funds, 123 million just for BIPER, 102 million that I would say is one of the most important differences compared with the second quarter that you can see in slide 13. Then as far as cost of credit is concerned, we will see the details thereof, but annualized cost of credit is 48 basis points. As far as net interest income is concerned, once again, the dynamics here for the quarter, between the third quarter and the second quarter, there is a So in the first part, we only have BIPER, 33.8% growth in commercial, and it's one to be split between market effects and volume effects. So the institutional funding, we have issued subordinated loans, and so the cost of funding is a little bit higher. and 22 million reduction in the TLTRO. So from 39 in the second quarter, we are now at 19. So there's a benefit from the TLTRO still. And you can see Karije as a whole because some information, some detailed information are being structured here. over these weeks. And so from next quarter, we will give you more details. But the commercial spread, as you can see, goes from 193 to 205 quarter on quarter. As far as net commission income, slide 15 is concerned, Of course, there's been a drop in what comes from assets under management and in direct deposits, but there has been a growth in the traditional banking activities, and we have seen that particularly in transactional banking, POS and cards, and also there has been an increase. And there's been an increase also in corporate investment banking activities, And the loan dynamics also drags along some important fees and commissions components. So we're very much satisfied with the traditional banking activity in terms of net fees and commissions. As far as finance is concerned and trading income, the only difference between the two courses lies with Carige because There were some capital gains there on the disposals of some securities, and Carissa also benefited from some short positions on interest rates. As far as operating costs are concerned, I would say that for operating costs, you can see there – that over the nine months we're calculating about 47 million in one-off costs that are broken down equally between cost adjustments to the Solidarity Fund of 2021 and 24 million instead are one-off costs deriving from the acquisition of Karije. We're benefiting also in terms of personnel costs from a reduction of about 590 people with 530 people from the 1st of July. As far as the cost of credit is concerned, we can confirm at BPIS level that there are the same loan loss provisions as we had In the second quarter, the annualized cost of credit is 48 basis points, but we should consider that we also increased the coverage ratio for non-performing loans. So this effect is very important and probably represents also and accounts for 50% of the loan loss provisions that in terms of basis points we are in fact taking. As far as capital is concerned, the slide is self-evident. You can see that the deductions are OCI for value reserves, and then there are deductions on DTAs because after a certain capital threshold, they are taken back, and we will reabsorb them by the beginning of by the early months of 2023 then so you can see that the risk-weighted assets and then by pro forma if we pro forma calculate the DTAs of courage we will get to 13.2 percent in terms of pro forma phase D and C one that is broadly in line with our expectations so once again I would reassert the final conclusions are operating profitability is underpinned by the top line growth and traditional banking revenues with again a net fee and commission income that exceeds net interest income in this course and then the resilient asset quality should be highlighted with higher coverage and the solid capital that gives us a good position of solidity and financial strength. My presentation is over and I would open the questions and answer session. This is the course call conference operator. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchstone telephone to remove yourself from the question queue. Please press star and two. Please pick up the receiver when asking questions. Anyone who has a question may press star and one at this time. The first question is from the Italian conference by Peroc, Mr. Peroc from Mediobanca. Please go ahead, sir.

Thank you.

Please go ahead, ladies and madam. So I've got three questions. First, could you share with us the dividend per share that you have included in your common equity for the nine months of the year, for this nine-month period, and how much should we expect for the next quarter? And you had indicated $450 million in net interest interest. And now, can you update your guidance for the quarter? And my last question is about fees and commissions. Your strategy in terms of asset management and insurance was profitable so far, and Q3 exceeded the limits of your guidance. But looking at next year, do you expect commissions will continue to increase? Well, very quickly, as far as the dividends concerned for the nine-month period, 7.5 cents was set aside. And as far as the expectation for the end of the year is concerned, we will try to keep with what we had promised. And so we will see how things are developed towards the end of the year. But as far as net interest income is concerned and the guidance for the next quarter, for sure we did very well. and probably you know I'm saying something in advance but I think that in terms of we will go around 1 billion divided between net interest income and net commission income 50-50 on a 50-50 basis but you know that 2023 so next year is going to be a very special year no one has understood yet what we can expect but we have carried out our analysis and so what I'm giving as a guidance is what we're thinking now and then we will be more accurate in our guidance over the next weeks and months. Thank you. And can you give us guidance also about the net interest income for

2024, probably.

Well, so the analysis is being carried out. We can confirm the data, but we may expect a little bit better results. next question is from domenico santoro from hsbc please so go ahead yes i've got four questions first of all the contribution of the tltro probably there was some inaccuracy i i understood it was 39 uh gross in the second quarter and now it's 19. i i think i had higher numbers and so i would like to understand better what the contribution is going to be for the fourth quarter, both in growth and net terms. And then net interest income, I can understand that the Q4 is going to be better than Q3, and we can infer that it's going to be much higher, but can you give us guidance for next year, 2023? Because we are... So $1.950 billion probably will be achieved next year. So I would like to have better guidance. And then systemic costs also. We need guidance about that. And I would like to know more about any possible decisions about non-performing loans being sold or if the model is going to be revised, and if so, to what extent. Well, let me see if I remember all of your questions, but the systemic costs for next year are about 150. The guidance I gave before was an overall guidance of $1 billion on a 50-50 basis, and the contribution of the fourth quarter, as I was saying before, is in line with this quarter. We expect something better, but we will be clearer in the short term. But as far as the disposals are concerned, by the end of this year, we had talked about disposals for about $1.5 billion in NPLs, And in the business plan, we had also included disposals of UTPs, with the objective being the disposal of bad loans by the end of this year. And what we expect is that we will go towards a disposal of $1 billion, $1 billion, $100 billion, and if possible, a little bit higher. But we do not expect any significant impact. And as far as the TLTRO is concerned, I would give the floor to Gianluca Santi, the Deputy General Manager. In the annexes, you have a slide on net interest income that shows how net interest income evolved over the quarter, $30 million in the first, $27 million in the second, and $6 in the third quarter. Of course, by including Genova, it will be 30 for the quarter. But you have the development, all of the breakdown in a slide. If I can ask for clarification that is important for next year, can you give us guidance about the revenues? Because you said one billion, I think. Yes. Yes. I must be cautious and conservative because we're speaking about a very special year. So $1 billion in terms of operating profits with a subdivision into net interest income and fee and commission income of 50% each, roughly, with differences of, you know, there may be differences, but this is what we are seeing. thinking of at the moment, but I want to be conservative and prudent, you know, because we're, I mean, this year is in progress and next year is fraught with uncertainty, so we need to be cautious. Next question comes from Marco Nicolai from Jefferies. Yes, good evening and thank you for the presentation and I congratulate you on your results. I've got a couple of questions. If you can give us an update on the litigation with Malacalza Investiment in any possible reverberations, in case there are any, and in terms of one-off costs connected with the acquisition, should we expect any further costs? think so for the fourth quarter, and can you give us color on that? And can you give us some updates on synergies, if you have an update on the synergies that you expect from Karije? Well, we do not expect any further impacts on costs as compared to what we gave you as a guidance. The integration costs are about $70 million as a whole that we have already taken. Actually, $30 million has already been taken. And we hope that by the end of the year, considering that the situation has been a little bit better than we expected or are in line with what we expected, we hope we'll be able to improve the situation even further and not worsen it. But if your question was whether we see any negative surprises, the answer is we do not see any surprises. Well, litigation with Malacalza, you know, we have already spoken about this. We are quite confident about the results. of litigation. I have no further update to give you as compared to what the market already knows and so I wouldn't add anything. So in terms of costs associated to the M&As, it's only 30 or 35. Now, this is what we have already taken, what we have already incurred, but the overall cost is 70, and we hope we can do better. At the same time, I feel quite confident that it will be better because the operation, this transaction that was for sure very complex as far as we're concerned and also for the entire organization because Carice had some problems that were dragging along. Last summer we had to work intensively, but everything eventually worked out well, and so we're quite confident about the next future and the future in general. Because in the meantime, we have seen that – The operating income was positive, and also the bottom line there is a break-even, which makes us confident about the future. The synergies we gave you can be confirmed, and then we will be more detailed in the next quarter. Next question is from Andrea Lisi from Equita. Thank you for taking my questions. My first question is about the balance sheet. I have seen that there has been a strong increase in cash and cash equivalents, and I would like to understand how this interacts with the TLTRO, if there is any correlation and then in terms of guidance for the net interest income for the next year indicatively you spoke about 500 million per quarter so I would like to understand what rates assumption is it based on is your estimate based on and so for the considering today's interest rates what sensitivity do you have in terms of your labor increases. What we're based on today is a situation. We cannot base ourselves on any further situation. So this is what we're based on. And I can confirm the trend that you gave. And if the CFO is taking the question about sensitivity, Yes, the sensitivity for a further increase by 100 basis points in the interest rates is 5% of net interest income. Next question is from Cristian Carriera from Intermonte. Yes, good evening. Thank you for taking my questions. I would like to understand for the fourth quarter what the one-off items are, if there are any. So you were recalling the cost of personnel, for instance, and so I would like to understand the NEXI situation, then the some one-offs that you may give a scholar for the fourth quarter and then the strategy as far as strategy is concerned in the newspapers we had reports of we read about this third banking poll and are you interested in increasing your footprint for instance with the Banca Monte dei Paschi has been capitalized now, and so could it fit within your plans? Well, as far as the one-off items are concerned, apart from what we have already communicated, we cannot see any, and we hope there's none. So I have no further elements to add. to what I have already talked about, and we may expect some positive elements for the next quarter. Then Gianluca talked about the exit of about 600 people. I think it was 580 people. So 600 people left. left in the first half of the year and there's going to be 400 people leaving in the second part of the year so for next year we will start to have a benefit from the headcount reduction but we will have a The upside next year. And then as far as the HR is concerned, we are defining a second maneuver that we in fact set out in the business plan for about 200 people. So there's another, you know, there's a... HR maneuver that is going on. And when we talked about the sale of branches to Desio, the sale of these branches to Desio will also involve 270 people leaving which means that there is a quite substantial headcount maneuver going on that we hope will be completed soon. You know that many actions have been implemented. There are two or three that will be completed by the end of the year, including NEXE that you were hinting at. I'm confident that this will be completed, but with Nexi, we hope it will be completed, so the numbers have already been communicated. In the fourth quarter, the deal should be closed, but we will give you communication of everything once we can confirm what we have said. As far as the third banking poll strategy is concerned, I'm repeating myself. over these days, and I do not know what to add, and it's not something personal against you or with you, but over the last 15 months, the bank has doubled its position. It has trebled its complexity because by putting together the UBIDO deal with 620 branches and 5,600 people, Carreger that is bringing on board 3,300 people, so we are integrating, we have partly integrated and we are still integrating, 8,400 people. And we're still yesterday's bank, you know, so we cannot look too far ahead at what is happening, but we really have to have a good focus on what we have. And our priority today is that of completing everything we have started and consolidating the bank that we have formed. Now the bank has got 5 million customers. We need to, you know, to arrange everything in the best way, also in terms of branch network, because we're adding the branch network of Carrije now that is bringing along a number of customers that, as you know, have experienced, I wouldn't say an abandonment, because I would be offensive against Carrije. And, of course, they did what we could. The customers' relationships have been retained, but, of course, there were problems with the loss in volumes, and we need to fix that. We need to integrate the people that are part of the head office. Eight hundred people are going to be integrated in the head office. We have already talked with everybody. We basically have the plans for, you know, redeploy the people, and we are confident that a good – Work will be made in the next quarter and most of the things will be settled. But still, the work is intense and we wouldn't consider another transaction now. Once we're done with what we're doing, we will... What about the IT migration? I couldn't understand the question very well, Mr. Montani says. I was saying, what about the partnerships? Well, among the things that we need to arrange in the best way with Carrije, we also have the partnerships that they had, and so we're confident that they will be completed by the end of the year. As far as the IT migration is concerned, the migration is well ahead, and You may know that since last year with the acquisition of Ubi, we also have acquired a lot of people from Ubi, including the manager of IT, Mr. Sonnino, and we have acquired basically 140 people to strengthen the IT industry. In the meantime, and including also the partnerships, on top of that there are also the partnerships with the IT sector that is being repositioned, that is being insourced. And this is bringing about the inclusion of 103, 104 people that we need to strengthen the IT department. We have not identified any problems so far. We are perfectly convinced that the entire integration of the IT will be completed by the end of this month successfully and the tests we have carried out so far proved and yielded very well and this bears witness to the fact that also in terms of IT we have made very good steps forward Obviously, we have not yet completed the process, so we will work intensely to complete the integration by the 27th and 28th of November over the conversion weekend, and I'm sure you will be able to verify the positive results of this integration with Corrige. Thank you very much. Next question is from Adele Palama from UBS. Yes, good evening. I've got two requests for clarification on the guidance and some questions. As far as the costs are concerned, I think I remember that there were some costs, some one-off costs deriving from the personnel maneuver of about 140-150 million. Has this already been taken or will it be taken in the fourth quarter? Well, you remember perfectly because the HR maneuver was for 600 people with an estimated cost of 150 million. But this cost will have to be taken and I'm confident that by the end of the year, we will complete the HR maneuver. There are many things to do, but this was included among our objectives, and so by the end of the year, we will complete it, and if it's not by the end of the year, it will be by early next year, but we're working on it, yes. Yes, good. And I would also like to know If you are thinking of repaying the tranche of the TLTRO in advance, let us consider that in due time. What I can say is that we are in a condition to repay that because there's a That would be possible, but we have not yet thought about it. I mean, there's no difficulty in repaying it. We will consider the opportunity and convenience of doing that in due time. And I would like to have guidance on what you expect for the cost of risk in 2023 and some clarification about the NII – 5% or is it annualized third quarter? And then the moving parts of capital that you expect. If you expect any moving parts for the 2023 and 2024. Just a minute because you made a lot of questions. Go for it. We had a microphone. The mic was off, I'm sorry. As far as the year is concerned, we have communicated that the cost of risk was 48, is 48 basis points, and we expect it will be maintained between 48 and 58. we may get to 60 or 70 in case of an adverse scenario, but we will see what happens. I always stress one point that unlike other banks, we were always conservative. We've always been conservative. We've always been judged as having a higher cost of risk than others. And I would underline this once again. Our cost of credit, the cost of credit that we always gave, If we had looked at the models, we would have been able to declare a lower cost of risk, but we wanted to be conservative and prudent because our objective was that of reducing the gross and net NPE ratio, and we would have obtained that through a substantial sale of the portfolio. We always took robust provisions in order not to make sales by the end of the year with a strong impact on the profits and loss. So we are in a position now to say that we should be able to close a big deal in NPE by the end of the year. for one billion, and the marginal impact is being considered. But the same type of approach will continue in the past. So we were prudent in the past, and we'll keep being prudent in the future. Then for a number of reasons now, we expect 20% for next year. It could also be 25%. Five percent probably. There was a part missing. Five percent is the tax rate based on 2022, about 100 million in terms of numbers. What about the moving parts of capital in the fourth quarter and in 2023? And another question is about overlays. There are no impacts. And for overlays, you were asking, so it's about 90 million. I hope I gave you all of the answers. Next question from Andrea Vercellone.

I'm asking for clarification about core revenues for next year. You said $1 billion quarterly.

My question is based on what perimeter? Today's perimeter or is this perimeter net of the merchant acquiring, leasing and I'm sorry. Well, on this perimeter, of course. But I may have understood wrongly. So, of course, the perimeter excluding the acquiring, merchant acquiring, yes. So today's perimeter, net of fees from the acquiring business. Yes, because the merchant... business is going to be closed by the end of the year and so it will have to be excluded from the perimeter we cannot include it in the perimeter otherwise there would be some something wrong in the calculation of course and what about the other deconsolidations that you are planning you have not yet excluded them from the guidance or have you this is my question Well, I was thinking loud while you were making the question, but the deconsolidation we're speaking about, the only one left would be the leasing. Well, and the branches to Desio, they have already been considered. So, yeah, those things have already been considered because as far as the branches being sold to Dezio. If the deal is closed next year, then of course they will be considered as out of the scope. So what has been announced, yes, for sure, everything that has been announced is out. Because if it was not the case, then we would have, you know... And so, of course, everything that has been announced is not in the guidance because we know that they will not generate any more benefits or revenues. But it's important for us to know what you have excluded. Yes, you're right. You're right. You made a good question. I'm not speaking for myself, but the history of this bank has always been very prudent and so it's part of its style not to declare something it has not The second clarification is about NPs. I remember $2.5 billion. Yes, you're right. We always spoke about $2.5 billion because we were considering bad loans and UTPs and the sale of the platform. I probably was too quick when I said this, but we're dividing the platform and the UTPs that will go next year. And then for this year, we're just talking about bad loans. And so bad loans will be sold by an amount of up to $1.5 billion. Probably it will not be able for us to get to $1.5 by the end of the year, but we will sell $1.1, $1.2 billion by the end of this year. So it's split into two moments because we wouldn't – been able to do everything by the end of this year. If you look at the extent of the deals we're proposing, they're very substantial and there's a problem of timing. Next question is from the conference in English from Hugo Cruz by KBW.

Hi, thank you for the time. I just I think last quarter you gave some guidance for the run rate on operating costs. From memory, I think it was you'd be a guide for 640 to 650 a quarter. So I was wondering if you can update that guidance as well. Thank you.

Yes.

We can give you the guidance by quarter, so it's 650. I'm sorry, 650 million each quarter. 2.6 billion, 2.6 billion overall, 650 each quarter.

Thank you very much.

Grazie. Next question from the Italian conference is from Mediobanca, Noemi Peruc. Good evening again, and thank you for taking my question. My questions. I've got two follow-up questions and one question. For the first follow-up question is about the NII guidance. We would like to know how many MRAE issuance you have foreseen and what do you consider as an adverse scenario for the cost of risk of 60 to 70 in terms also of employment, environment, and everything. And then the leasing and CFA disposals. For the row part, Roberto, the CFO, will answer. Then in terms of adverse scenarios, we have not, you know, focused on something extraordinary in one sense or the other. What I wanted to say is that If the scenario remains flat and stable based on what we're seeing today, then evidently we can be confident that the cost of credit will be much more limited or in line with what we have. If there's a recrudescence of something that we cannot expect now because there are no specific forecasts, but you can include in that scenario, or emergency, whatever you want, like the cost of energy, inflation, or employment problems, then if we were to consider a worsening scenario, more negative scenario than we were seeing today, then we would consider a cost of risk of 60 to 70 BIPs basis points. But we have no visibility now. I think that nobody has a clear idea of what will happen next year. But just personally speaking, I would say that Yeah, personally speaking, and I do not know if I'm right or wrong, I'm probably more frightened and concerned about 2024 than 2023. But I'm confining myself to saying this. We will have to see what happens. Hi, Noemi. The CFO speaking. As far as the NRA is concerned, we've got an issuance of $400 million. And we have considered 500 to 600 million in senior debt to be issued next year. And I think that this will be, you know, will complete our rail issuances for 2023. Mr. Montani, there are no further questions registered at the moment. Good. So thank you for joining the conference call and for any further questions or requests for clarification that you may require. My colleagues are here. We are here for further clarifications or answers to questions that you may not have been able to make or that you will want to make in the future. So thank you for your attention. Have a good evening.