Cemetir Holding

Good afternoon. This is the College School Conference Operator. Welcome and thank you for joining the Tenanted 2025 First Half Results Conference Call. As a reminder, all participants are in listen-only mode. After the presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. Should anyone need assistance during the conference call, they make a signal and operate by pressing star and zero on their telephone. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Marco Mario Bianconi, Head of MA and Investor Relations. Please, go ahead.

Thank you. Welcome, everybody, to Chairman Tirulli's first of 2025 results. I'm here with Francesco Caltagirone, our Chairman and Chief Executive, who would be happy to take your question at the end of my short presentation deck, which has been distributed So I will immediately go to page number two of the presentation, key takeaways. On the first half, 25 results, the first point is that they are in line with management expectations. With overall cement sales volumes stable, albeit accelerating in Q2, as far as cement and aggregates are concerned, slightly higher revenues, and lower EBITDA compared to the first half of last year, mainly due to negative currency impact and non-recurring charges. EBITDA improvement in the Nordic and Baltic region was offset by a reduction in all other regions and a 7 million euro negative exchange rate effect. Two non-recurring events affected healthier operating performance. The first was a fire in the alternative fuel feeding system at the Goran plant in Belgium. The second one, some technical issues during the restart of the second production line in Egypt and the postponement of some cement shipments. As far as the 2025 guidance, all targets are confirmed, excluding no recurring charges and despite a very uncertain commercial and geopolitical backdrop. Moving to page three with the main first-off results highlights. Revenue reached 796.7 million euro minus 1.9% year-over-year. Non-GAAP revenues were up 0.5% year-on-year to 807.1 million euro. There was a higher revenue in Nordic and Baltic, in Turkey and Malaysia. with some FX headwinds in both Turkey and Egypt and lower revenue in all the other regions. Cement volumes were broadly stable thanks to growth in Turkey and Nordic and Baltic and Malaysia and the general decline in the other regions. RMC volumes were up 1.5% driven by the positive performance of Turkey and Norway and Belgium while declined in Denmark and Sweden, whereas aggregate volumes were up by 4.8%. EBITDA reached €173.5 million, down 9.9% year-over-year. Non-GAAP EBITDA was €171.5 million, down 5.7%. Lower EBITDA was due mainly to negative exchange rate of €7 million and non-recording charges. Non-GAAP EBITDA margin reached 21.2% from 22.6% in the first half of 2024. EBIT was down 18.5% to €102 million. Non-GAAP EBIT was down 12.5% to €105 million. Financial result was €2.7 million, down from the €22.1 million recorded in the first half of last year which was due to a one-off lower net FX income. Group net profit was down 24.2% to 73.5 million euro. Non-GAAP group net profit was down 20.4% to 81.4 million euro. Net cash reached 144 million euro, an improvement of 88.6 million euro year-on-year, including 43.5 million euro dividends by the parent company, 6 million dividends to minorities and equity investments in Egypt of 30 million euro. Turning the page to number five, Nordic and Baltic accounting for roughly 50% of our group business. Here, Denmark is the most important country. Great domestic cement volumes were slightly down versus the first half of last year. with a more marked decline for white domestic cement, with a still weak residential sector. Exports were up 7%, mainly due to higher deliveries in Norway and Iceland. Ready mix volumes were down 4%, whereas aggregate volumes were up 16%, with demand remaining strong. EBITDA was up 5.2% year over year, mainly due to the positive contribution of cement, some savings in purchasing cost, fuel, and electricity consumption. Norway, ready-mix sales volumes were up 10% due to favorable weather conditions and the startup of some major projects. There were signs of a slight market recovery, although overcapacity and price competition impacted the results. EBITDA improved thanks to higher volumes and the Norwegian krona in the period depreciated by 1.5% versus Euro. In Sweden, revenue sales volumes were done moderately, while aggregate volumes were done around 4% due to the lack of new infrastructure projects and some excess production capacity. EBITDA was up from last year, and the Swedish krona revaluated by 3% versus the Euro average. Turning page to number five, Belgium and France accounting for some 27% of group share of group EBITDA. Domestic cement volumes in this region declined by around 8% in the first half due to persistently weak demand. Exports also fell by around 7% even though they showed an improvement over Q125 due to the slowdown in construction activity mainly in northern France and a temporary closure of a railway line. Ready Mix volumes were up 2% driven by the continuation of major projects and despite harsh weather conditions in January. Aggregate volumes were broadly flat from last year. EBITDA was down mainly due to the cement segment penalized by lower sales volumes, higher electricity costs, and non-recurring charges due to the fire in the alternative fuel feeding system at the current plant. Turning page to number six, Turkey accounting for 12% of our group EBITDA. From April 2022, you know that Turkey is considered hyperinflationary, so we're just looking at the non-GAAP figures. Domestic cement volumes were up by 5% with a strong rebound in Q2, despite ongoing macroeconomic challenges. Cement and clinker export were up 2%, despite the export ban to Israel, which is effective since the second quarter of last year. Ready Mix volumes were up 2%, supported by two new plants, and aggregate volumes were up by 19%. Revenue was up 5%, thanks to higher volumes and prices across all segments, despite the Turkish Lira devaluation. EBITDA was down 25% due to rising costs, particularly personal expenses, mainly driven by seasonal inflation-related wage dynamics, which led to a retroactive salary adjustment from the beginning of the year. Cars' planned sale is in progress, with closing expected by year-end. There was, in the period, around a 20% Turkish lira devaluation versus the euro average. Turning to page seven, or the median counting for around 7% of group EBITDA, volume, white cement volume went down around 3% with some improvement in the second quarter. The residential market remains under pressure due to high mortgage rates and persistent inflation. Texas saw the sharpest decline impacted by adverse weather and supply disruptions. The York region experienced a milder decline, mainly due to colder than average winter temperatures, while California and Florida posted moderate sales growth. EBITDA was down only slightly thanks to good cost control. In that period, the U.S. dollar devaluated by an average of 1% versus the Europe's. Turning to page 8, Asia-Pacific, accounting for 4% of group EBITDA, Revenue in China was down by 11.5% due to lower selling prices in a context of stagnant demand and delayed effects from government stimulus measures. EBITDA was down 31.9%, affected by weaker pricing despite only a slight decrease in volumes. The renminbi revalued by 1.6% versus the euro average. In Malaysia, On the contrary, revenue increased by 1.1%, driven by higher sales volumes, mainly exports. Total volumes were up 10%, mainly due to larger clinker shipments to Australia. Domestic volume, on the contrary, though marginal in volume, declined by 10%, also due to orders brought forward to December 24, and some delays in major projects. EBITDA declined by 18.1% due to lower export prices reflecting a different product and destination mix, despite some cost savings and higher volumes. In the period, the Malaysian Ringgit revalued by 6.5% versus the Euro average. The last region on page 9, Egypt, accounting for 3% of Group EBITDA, Revenue declined by 11%, mainly due to the 23% depreciation of the Egyptian pound, despite a 9% increase in local currency revenue. White cement volumes declined by around 2%, impacted by a weak second quarter, mainly due to lower export linked to the postponement of shipments for technical reasons. Domestic market was soft in early 25, but showed sign of recovery in June with still high inflation, currency devaluation, rising energy costs, and some pressure on manufacturing. EBITDA was down mainly due to high operating costs, only partially offset by a more favorable product mix and higher selling prices. No recording costs related to the reactivation of a second production line, ideal for nine years, caused production disruption at the Ellabrish plant. In the period, the Egyptian pound devalued by around 23% versus the Euro average. Just a few highlights about the non-financial aspects. Our decarbonization commitment continues. CO2 emissions per ton of great cement were down 3% to 616 kilograms. CO2 emissions per ton of white cement were slightly higher to 862 kilograms. We were recognized by Sustainalytics as an ESG industry top rated company for the second consecutive year. We achieved an A score in climate change by CDP and A- score in CDP water for the third consecutive year. In March 25, Trementir and Air Liquide officially signed a 220 million grant agreement with the European Innovation Fund for the ACCION carbon capture and storage project in Denmark. The project will enable the avoidance of 1.5 million tons of CO2 emissions per year once fully operational. We were included also in the Europe's Climate Leaders 2025 ranking by the Financial Times and Statista. Decarb, the first low-carbon white cement brand, was launched in Malaysia with a 12% lower CO2 emissions versus Albert Portland white cement. We were also included in the world's most sustainable company 2025 ranking compiled by Time and Statista. And we were recognized for the second time as a supplier engagement leader by CDP. That leads me to the last slide, number 11, regarding Our guidance for 2025, which is confirmed with a revenue of €175 billion for the year, an EBITDA of around €415 million, a net cash position of around €410 million, and a CAPEX of €98 million. This guidance refers to like-for-like ongoing operations, non-GAAP, and excluding any non-recurring items. With this, I end my presentation and I hand over to Mr. Cantagirone who's happy to take your question. Thank you very much.

Excuse me, this is the call school conference operator. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question, may press star and one on the touchtone telephone. To remove yourself from the question queue, please press star and two. Please pick up the receiver when asking questions. Anyone who has a question may press star and 1 at this time. The first question is from Matteo Bonizzoni of Kepler Cheveux. Please go ahead.

Thank you and good evening. I have two questions. The first one is on the guidance confirmation. You said that it excludes extraordinary items. I believe, but I want maybe a confirmation that the two, let's say, one-off events which penalized the first TAR, which were the fire in Belgium and the technical issues to the second line in Egypt, in the first TAR they were not excluded from the EBDA, so they were not quantified also. I wonder, are they considered exceptional items or not? And then in relation to this question, can you maybe more quantify the impact of these two one-off events to your H1 results and what is your confidence to basically to fix both of them in the second half? Last question is on the squeeze of margin which we have had in Turkey. You explained clearly that it is due to a sharp labor cost increase, which was not yet, let's say, or not fully offset in terms of pricing, cement pricing, output pricing. So in this case, what is your view on potential ability to recover this margin squeeze in the second half of the year? Thanks.

Thank you for the question. Let's see. Just commenting on the results of the first half, we believe that they appear worse than they really are for several reasons that I will explain also to answer your questions. I mean, I am referring to the non-GAAP result where, let's say, compared to last year, we are, let's say, nearly 10 million singly with revenues that are slightly up and quantities that are slightly better. Regarding the inconveniences that we face in the first half in the two plants in Belgium and in Egypt, let's say that the magnitude of these two inconveniences in the first half is around 6 million euro. And then there is also, just to give a full view, this increase, sharp increase in labor costs in Turkey that happened at the end of March with retroactivity from the 1st of January. So, let's say that here the magnitude is around 4 million. So, these three conveniences we think that are transitory in nature and we hope to reduce the ground loss during the second half of the year. For us, let's say, besides the incremental cost of the labor cost, the other two are, let me say, considered one-off. But I must say that even including this one-off in the first half, in our budget, I am aware that you don't know the budget divided quarter by quarter, we are slightly ahead of the budget and not below. So this means that so far, let's say, we think that there are also slightly possibility even to have a better result at the end of the year because we think that especially in Egypt where due to, as in normal happen, when you restart the line after such a long period. There have been some quality issues that forced us to postpone some supply and shipment, but we think that what we have, let me say, lost in the first two quarters can be recovered in the second half. And we already started, so the problem has been solved. So for this reason, we think that we can recover the gap here that is around 5 million euros. In Belgium, the issue on the feeding of alternative fuels that, let me say, took fire, we think that the issue, I mean, is, let me say, being solved we experience the higher cost besides the cost of the damage because we forced to switch from alternative fuel to coal and also to CO2 because coal produces higher CO2 and so we were forced to buy some CO2 and this problem will be solved probably during the month of August. So I think that we are, let me say, even because the figures in terms of revenues, in terms of quantity, we are, let me say, addressed to, let me say, to fulfill the guidance on EBITDA and also on the cash flow.

Okay, thanks.

The next question is from Emanuele Gallazzi of Epita. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon, everybody. Two questions from my side. The first one is a clarification on the one-off. Do you expect almost zero one-off from Belgium and Egypt in the second half, right? And the second one is, besides the one-off event in France, some of your competitors are flagging and overall weak market driven by weak residential and also lower infrastructure spending. Can you just discuss about your view on the Belgium and France market and what do you expect in the coming quarters?

Yes, starting from your last question. So in our perimeter, we still see some soft spots for two different reasons. in China where we are, let me say, below our budget because of price, environment, and not quantity. And in Belgium, France, especially the Paris area is, let me say, minus 20% in terms of quantity, but the price are, let me say, stable. This is mainly because, let's say, you know, the end of the Olympics and some hangover in terms of, let me say, activity, yes. Your first question was, let me say, no, we don't expect major... We don't expect in the second half to have made probably one million, but let's say this is something that we are going to fix and we are, let me say, probably starting from next month to switch back to alternative fuels from coal, I would say.

Yeah, thank you.

The next question is from Alessandro Tortora of Mediobanca. Please, go ahead.

Yes, good afternoon to everybody. I have two questions. The first one relates to the Turkish market. You basically communicated the disposal of the Kars plant. Can you elaborate a little bit more on this strategy on Turkey for you in the medium term if we can assume that probably there are let's say some strategic plans from you and maybe you can assess also the disposal of some other plans in your Turkish portfolio. So this is the first question, thanks.

Yes, about Turkey, I mean, starting also from the coast side, we were aware that there should have, let me say, been an increase in the salary cost on an alignment. But usually, this is smoother. And this year, we had, let me say, in the first half, the inflation that pays that will be twice the devaluation. So in Euro terms, we suffered a sharp increase at the end of March. But I can say that, as you can imagine, you cannot adjust the day after. we are, let me say, in the path of recovery with the price increase that is regarding all Turkey to recover this extra cost. So what we should see in the second half is that this recover in terms of profitability should kick in and already started to kick in.

Regarding our strategy,

I can say that CAF's plan is one of the smallest in all of our perimeters, quite old, and you have also to consider that, I don't know if you are aware, but the 2nd of July this year, this month, the Turkish government approved the EDS scheme. The EDS scheme is is more or less the same that we have in Europe. There will be two years of testing phase, 26 and 27, and then they will start in 2028. This just to say, because this is also following the same strategy that we had in Italy. So CARS is a plant that is from late 70s. It has nearly 50 years. and it has around 400,000 tons of clinker capacity. To upgrade that plant will cost a meaningful amount of money in a part of Turkey where we see limited development in the market. So we found a local competitor that has already a plant close to our planting cart. for sure he can build synergies and it also offers the price that multiple on EBITDA that I think is quite interesting. So we are just waiting the clearance from the antitrust that should arrive by September. This means that, let's say, for sure in Turkey, the most interesting part is is the western part for Izmir and Trachia plants. Elati plants is interesting mainly because now it's starting the rebuilding of Syria and might be interested for the next few years by, let me say, increasing consumption. But let's say, Cards sales is just an opportunistic, unsolicited, let me say, step, because somebody came to us and said that if we were, let me say, interested in selling the asset, and I believe that the value that we might extract with the sales is higher than the value, more than the value of the free cash flow that we can extract from the sale is higher than the free cash flow Project 10-15 years ahead if, let me say, also we consider the upgrade that the plant needs, especially if the ADS system starts. We'll allow and we'll ask to all the producers to decline the emission for the next two decades, for sure.

Mm-hmm. Okay, thanks. And then the second question is just a clarification on the guidance. So basically, if we look back at the first half results, you had this headwind from the effects quantified in around 7 million EBITDA. So the question is, considering the second half, and probably we'll have this persistent headwind also considering the new dollar, but also looking at the strategy data. Compared, let's say, to your initial guidance, does this mean that you have a kind of change or basically you are confident that, let's say, the operating results are able to more than offset these FX headwinds? So just understand how it works for you, these negative contributions from FX. Thanks.

Let's say that in Turkey, for Turkey, we expect this year to have a better result compared to last year's Euroderm.

Okay.

So now this is just a mismatch of cost that happened with a retroactive that is not so common from the first, let me say, of January, and this happened in full in the second quarter. But we expect, let's say, that if the situation continues as it is today, with no major threat from the economical or political parties, that we should in Turkey have a better result than last year.

Okay. Thanks. The next question is from Bruno Permutti of Intesa San Paolo. Please go ahead.

Yes. Good evening, everyone. I was wondering about the volumes. in the second quarter and in the rest of the year. So we saw an increase probably in volumes in the second quarter, which was frankly quite surprising from my point of view. I was wondering if it is something that is maybe related to the phasing of the deliveries, or if you are seeing at the group level an improvement of the volume situation looking into the second half. The second question relates to Denmark. We didn't see in the first half an improvement in the volumes, if I have well understood. So I know that there is an important infrastructure project there. If you can update us on that and on that part of the project. And if I may, two other questions, one related to a possible insurance restore. So are you insured in Belgium and do we expect to have an insurance restore and in case when? And the last question, you mentioned the reconstruction of Syria. I was wondering if it is still a hope or if you are seeing something going on more materially.

Regarding the volumes, let's say we expect in the second half to have, let me say, a sort of continuation of this increase in the volume. We have a lack of volumes, some volumes especially in Denmark, as you are asking, because of this project, because it's slowing in pace, and also the volumes of the first staff are impacted negatively for, let me say, the Egyptian situation. But now, I think, so for this reason, I believe that in the second half, we should continue at this pace, let me say, to recover compared to last year in terms of volume. The only issue about volume is just the Paris area because all the other places, including China, because in China, as I said, the issue is the price. but a slight decline in the price, not a huge decline in the price. But we expect also, because it's nearly two and a half years that the volume are declining in that area, that sooner or later we should start to see some pick-up in North and France. I think that about Furman, I also already answered.

And what was insurance, the possible insurance restore, and then on Syria?

I think we are insured on damages and Business Continuity. We expect to have some restoration during this year. Let's say that we expect that because also there are other, let me say, implements that happen and even in 2023, minor implements, 2023 and 2024, but let's say that we might expect to have a restoration of around 20 million euro. That is, if it happened, might arrive directly in the EBITDA. And we don't think that they are one-off because they just cover cost sustained or extra, let me say, cost like what is happening now in Belgium. for various reasons or business continuity like it happened in Asia. So, you know, with the insurance sometimes the things take longer, but let me say we are actively working with the counterparts and let's say I expect, let me say, by, let me say, in the second half to have, let me say, the settlement of this. And Syria, let's say, it's picking up. Let's say it's not anymore in blacklist. And let's say it depends, you know, the start will be very low because everything is destroyed one kilometer after the border of Turkey. So they have to start to rebuild and also, to clean from mines, let me say, because there are, let me say, thousands of mines on the road, and so we don't know exactly, but we are aware, especially from the Turkish Association that has said that in the last years, and it will be millions of tons of supply of cement that can arrive only from Turkey, because part or most of the industrial production in Syria has been destroyed in the war of the last 20 years. So for the very, I think, I believe, we believe that for the first three to five years, most of the cement that Syria will need will arrive from Turkey.

Thank you.

The next question is from Pierre-Yves Gouthier from Alpha Value. Please go ahead.

Yes, good afternoon. Can you walk us through the Forex impact? It's quite intriguing that at a revenue level, they seem to be pretty limited with the dollar, which has been down 10% at the beginning of this year. And it implies that you have a very strong pricing capability. This would be my inference, but clearly it's probably much more complex than that. So could you be maybe helpful and try to explain us what has happened from a forex standpoint at the revenue level? You express the cost at an EBITDA level, but I was just wondering whether we could get some degree of granularity on this question. or non-impacted, potentially, over the first half?

Yes, I'll take this question. Thank you. Actually, at revenue level, at a constant exchange rate, our revenue would have been 842.1 million euros, so 4.8% higher than the same period of last year. So there was absolutely an impact on revenue in translation, because it's not transaction, it's translation. And at the EBITDA level, we explained it was 7 million, and of which, clearly, there was a big portion in Turkey for the reason that the chairman explained before that was mainly due to, again, translation and devaluation of the Turkish lira. So, absolutely, it was an impact on both top line and EBITDA. And the main two currencies involved are Turkey, for the relative side, and Egypt, which are the two currencies that they valued the most against the euro in the period. These are the two major impacts. Then we can provide, you know, the breakdown, exactly breakdown of the EBITDA impact, but I think that Shetland also gave you a hint with regards the personnel costs in Turkey, and these are the main, and there are then obviously a few others, but just to give you an idea, some color about the impact.

About the US dollar, I mean, we are mainly natural, yes, because the cost that we bear for fuel and third parts, so the need of dollars is balanced with let me say the sales that we have for export from the various countries so let's say we are more or less neutral with the dollar if it's going up or down right but I would I agree with that obviously but I would have thought that the dollar would have had a global impact

on your pricing. I understand perfectly what you said about the Turkish and the Egyptian situations. That was very clear in your communique. But the question is really a broader one about in a weaker dollar context, effectively, you do not seem to suffer from lower prices expressed in a European currency, in effect, your reporting currency.

Yes, this because we are in white cement mainly, except for Turkey in our export. And let's say that the pricing of white cement is different from grey cement. So let's say that even now the tariff that will be applied everywhere, as you can imagine for us, let's say everything that will be shipped to USA, will have a charge of 10%. But what is produced in the United States, let's say, will not be charged. We are the only producer in dollars for white cement and then also our limited part of the perimeter that is only 10% of our revenues that is denominated in dollars because we have a limited perimeter of our, let me say, business in the U.S. area.

Okay, but it shows resilience at the end of the day, so that's great news. Thank you.

Thank you. The next question is from Igor Sonin from Alpha Value. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for picking up my question. I wanted to ask you about your effects risk. You mentioned a 7 million negative effects impact on EBITDA in the first half of 2025. Could you please clarify whether this figure is presented before or after hedging? In other words, is this the gross effect of currency movement or the net result after applying any gains or losses from hedging instruments? And additionally, Could you please elaborate whether the hedging strategy has changed recently due to the persistent currency pressure in Egypt and Turkey? Thank you.

I think that the main, I mean, usually, let me say, every result even in the past included this figure. I mean, this year in the first half, as I said, it's mainly coming from Turkey where it's with 50% rate to make any kind of hedging, that we have this, let me say, inflation that grow at double pace of evaluation. So usually, this, if our, let me say, balance in euro terms, they are neutral, but in, as it happened now, that in one quarter, two quarters, there is, let me say, a mismatch, this can because, let me say, an extra headwind. So we are just signaling this, but this is usually considered in our perimeter and in the past year. So just now, just to help you to clarify why there is, let me say, some delays. But we are expecting, as I said, that the price action in the second half in Turkey will help us to recover the personal cost increase and also this, let me say, headwinds that is, let me say, pumping up some costs related.

Okay, thank you.

The next question is from Andrea Belloli from Bankacros. Please go ahead.

Yeah, good afternoon, everybody. Thank you for taking my question. I'm just curious about the United States because you mentioned a 3% slowdown in volumes, and if I look at the BDA margin, it improved by around 20 basis points. You mentioned some post-control, and I was just curious to have some more color on this. Thank you.

Thank you for the question. First of all, probably our performance in the U.S. has bucked the trend a bit because looking at the competitors, people are reporting relatively weak figures. We clearly have not as much leverage to the infrastructure, data center, and Fed-funded spending as some of our competitors because, as you know, we operate only in white cement. White cement is a peculiar niche which is a specific feature of cement here. You know we are the first producer and only producer of white cement in the United States with two plants. And we have a mixed model. The model is mixed of manufacturing and distribution. So out of the around 600,000 tons of cement we distribute and sell annually in the United States and North America, about half are produced and the other half are imported. So I think there was a combination of a better purchasing for cement, some cost control and logistics savings, which more than offset some of the negative operating leverage. So we were able to actually, let's say, resist to the negative pressure of slightly declining volumes with a very good result. And I think the fact that we are the incumbent and the largest producer in the country plays a part. But I think that overall, we are very happy with the operating results of our subsidiary because we're clearly on top of the cost structure of the company and we're able to deliver with numbers for H1.

Perfect, thank you. Thank you.

The next question is from Alessandro Tortora of Mediobanca. Please, go ahead.

Yes, sorry, to follow up from my side. The first one, if you can come back to your comment on the insurance reimbursement you were expecting, but also the timing of the settlement. So, it's understood well, you mentioned the 20 million dollars as a potential, let's say, insurance reimbursement, and this would be related not only, let's say, to the one-off cost you had this year, but also to some other events occurred in the past. So just understand if, let's say, these are positive outcomes and the settlement is something you consider, therefore, recurring and included into the guidance. This is the first question. Thanks.

The insurance is not considered recurring. We expect, let me say, to have a deal during the second half. Then in terms of cash flow, because one thing is that you reach the deal and you can, let me say, register or note to the balance sheet in the book. You can book in the balance sheet. Or the other is that when you receive the money, that probably sometimes you are aware with the Insurance with this kind of amount, it will take some time. So I think that I have a positive mood on, let me say, trying to reach an agreement around this amount that is mainly linked to this year with some, let me say, scale of, let me say, the previous three years. but let's say it's not included in our view and this should let me say help to close the gap and even to recover more than the gap that we have let me say so far okay okay understood thanks and then so the last uh it's just a curiosity on your uh

let's say, net profit line, if I look at, let's say, the result attributable to non-controlling interest, should we assume, also considering all the deals you made in the past years, should we assume that basically this is a line that is going to go basically to zero?

Let's say Not to zero, but close to zero, because now our minorities are mainly, let me say, Malaysia, USA, and in Egypt they remain just 3%. But most of our, let me say, minorities came from Egypt. So we, let's say, it's around 1, 2, 3 million, let's say. I cannot say, but it's very small.

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Okay, so thank you very much for your interest in Chementeer and we wish you a pleasant rest of your day and evening. Thank you very much.

Thank you.