Kalmar Oyj B

Good afternoon from Helsinki and welcome to our second quarter 2026 earnings call. It's July, which is supposed to be the peak of our summer, but it's very chilly outside today. The Finnish summer is short, but at least we have not much snow. So while we might be missing on the sunshine outside, we are happy to shed some light on the Kalmar result for this quarter. My name is Karina Geberteir and I'm heading the Kalmar investor relations. Today's result will be presented by our CEO Sami Niiranen and CFO Sakari Ahdekivi. We will have a Q&A session at the end of the call. And I would like to remind you that this webcast is recorded. It will be available on Kalmar's Investor Relations website later. And please pay attention to the disclaimer as we will be making forward looking statements. We are now ready to start the presentation, so I will hand over to you, Sami.

Thank you. So thank you, Carina, and good afternoon, everyone from Helsinki. It's my pleasure to present Kalmar's second quarter 2026 results. I'm starting with an overview of the quarter. Overall, our performance was steady with strong sales growth and cash flow. And this goes for both segments and for different regions. Customer demand remained relatively stable and our order intake was in line with the comparison period at 449 million euros. and our sales grew by 14% to 480 million euros. Our eco-portfolio sales grew strongly by 27% and there was also improvement in the order intake for fully electric equipment. I will revert to this in a bit. Our comparable operating profit improved and in our services segment the performance improved sequentially. Our driving excellence initiative continued to deliver results. Sakari will cover this in more detail in his part of the presentation. Operating cash flow for the quarter was strong and our balance sheet remains strong. Looking at 2026, we keep our guidance unchanged. We expect Kalmar's comparable operating profit to be above 12.5% in 2026. Let's now have a closer look at the orders received. As I mentioned, overall demand for our equipment and services was relatively stable across different end customer segments. Orders received were essentially on the same level as in the second quarter of 2025. Order intake was resilient, although there were fewer sizable orders than in the second quarter of 2025. received orders for the equipment segment were in line with the comparison period and in services order intake decreased slightly. We'll have a look at the geographical breakdown of orders received on the next slide. At the end of June, our order book was a little lower than in the second quarter of 2025. Changes in currencies had no impact on orders received in the second quarter and direct impact of the ongoing conflict in the Middle East remained limited. Here you can see the geographical split of orders across our reporting segments. EMEA 43%, the Americas with 39%, and APAC 18% of orders received. In Americas, the gradual recovery in the distribution and customer market in the US continued, and our order intake grew by 38% year on year. On the other hand, services customers are still cautious. In EMEA, order intake decreased 20% year on year because there were sizable orders in the comparison period. And in APAC, order intake was on the level of the comparison period increasing in Oceania. Looking at the overall demand environment, customer demand has been remarkably resilient in these times and remained relatively stable across different customer segments. In the second quarter, our sales grew by 14% compared to the second quarter of last year, thanks to several successful project deliveries in both segments. In the equipment segment, sales grew by 17% year on year and in services by 10%. Services share of sales remained approximately on the same level as in 2025 at 33% of total sales. Let's then have a look at the geographical distribution of sales. As you can see, there was strong growth in EMEA. This was driven by sizeable order deliveries throughout the equipment portfolio, but also by services. In Americas, gradual improvement in the equipment segment continued and sales grew in North America. In APAC, although sales grew in Oceania, it was offset by a decrease in equipment sales in Asia. Then to our Eco-portfolio that contains our low carbon solutions including fully electric and hybrid solutions as well as sustainable services. In the second quarter the sales of our Eco-portfolio reached a record level and was 233 million euros and this is a growth of 27% year on year. Eco-portfolio share of sales is already 48% of total sales. In the second quarter, we secured a number of notable fully electric equipment orders. And fully electric machine share of equipment orders for the last 12 months was 10%. And in the second quarter, it was 12%. Let's then have a look at the profitability in the second quarter. In absolute terms, comparable operating profit improved year on year. And as you can see in the graph on the right, this was mainly driven by the growth in volumes. Comparable operating profit margin was 12.4%, which is a bit lower than in the second quarter of 2025. This was mainly due to the product mix in the equipment segment. Moving on, this slide gives an overview of our well diversified business with four strong customer segments. The services segments share of sales was 33% in Q2, which is providing resilience to our overall revenue. Eco-portfolio share of sales grew to 48%, which is showing the strong interest towards our sustainable solutions. The current macroeconomic uncertainty driven by geopolitical tensions leads to increased volatility in economic data, making it difficult to provide long-term forecasts. IMF has slightly downgraded the 2026 forecast and global GDP is still expected to increase 3.0% in 2026. Drury upgraded its 2026 and 2027 forecast following the U.S.-Iran peace deal. The forecast for 2026 is now 3.0% and for 2027 4.2%. Oxford Economics has released an update regarding their manufacturing and retail forecasts. And key takeaways for the 2026 outlook are as follows. In manufacturing, the 2026 growth forecast has been slightly revised downward to 3.0%. The growth rate is expected to slow slightly compared to 2025 levels. Metals output is expected to increase 1.9% in 2026 and wood and wood products to decrease minus 2.9%. And in retail, the 2026 forecast has been downgraded to 2.4%. Building on the external market estimates from the previous slide, let's look at the current demand outlook for Kalmar. where we anticipate that the total market demand for the next six months remains approximately at the similar level as in the previous quarters, with the caveat that trade tensions and geopolitical instability could have an impact on our markets and the demand from our four end customer segments. Next, an update on the status of Kalmar's connected fleet. In the second quarter, our connected fleet activity stayed on a stable level. Our installed base has grown steadily to over 70,000 machines from 68,000. At the end of 2025, we had over 16,800 connected equipment globally compared to 14,500 equipment at the end of 2024. And then I'm very happy to see our actions to develop our electric portfolio resulting in concrete orders. Here you can see the new orders announced and added to the Q2 order book. We received orders from customers in China, the Netherlands and Germany for a total of seven Kalmar electric reed stackers and signed a six year frame agreement covering the potential procurement of up to nine machines from Port of Helsingborg in Sweden. We also received orders for a total of nine Kalmar Electric empty container handlers from customers in Brazil and France. Beyond our electric portfolio, these orders announced and added to our Q2 order book perfectly showcase our well diversified business. Firstly, we received an order of 10 Kalamar hybrid straddle carriers and 12 hybrid Kalamar auto strut machines for Patrick terminals in Australia. We also signed an extension to Kalmar Care Service and Maintenance Agreement with Holmein in Sweden and secured our first customized training simulator order from SSAB Special Steels in Sweden. Moving into a short summary of financial highlights before handing over to Sakari. All in all, despite continued trade tensions and geopolitical uncertainty, we maintained a steady performance across both segments and in the different regions. orders received in the quarter were essentially in line with the comparison period at €449 million, which is a resilient result given that the prior year included several sizable orders in EMEA. Sales in the second quarter grew by 14% to €480 million, and both the equipment and services segments contributed to this growth. Comparable operating profit held up well in absolute terms and increased by 9% to 60 million euros, representing a margin of 12.4%. The improvement was driven mainly by higher volumes. And the services segment showed an encouraging early recovery, and we remain focused on growing services, improving spare part capture rates, and building recurring revenue, all of which are key levers for reaching our long-term targets. And here is a reminder of our performance targets for 2028. We remain committed to our strategic priorities and driving sustainable growth by leading the industry with innovations towards automation and electrification, expanding our services business and presence, and pursuing operational excellence to ensure long-term value creation in line with our 2028 targets. And here is a reminder about the forthcoming changes in our leadership team that we announced in the spring. As you know, Sakari Arekkivi will leave his position as the CFO as of 30th of September, 2026. Katri Hokkanen has been appointed CFO and a member of the Kalmar leadership team no later than 1st of October, 2026. Sakari will remain with Kalmar until the end of this year to ensure a smooth transition. There will also be a change in the services division. Tuomas Malmbori will step down from the role of president of services and a member of the Kalmar leadership team. And Tamara de Kreuter was appointed president of services and a member of the Kalmar leadership team as of 1st of September, 2026. So she will be joining Kalmar soon. I look forward to the energy and experience she will bring as we continue to grow this essential part of our business. Tuomas Malmbori will remain with Kalamar until the year end to ensure a smooth transition. So once again, I thank both Sakari and Tuomas for their contributions for Kalamar and the future growth of the company. So I will now hand over to Sakari. So thank you for listening.

Thank you, Sami, and good afternoon also from my side to everyone on the lines. I'll start with our traditional slide and to show our financial profile, which has remained strong, providing us a solid basis for future growth. Our order book has stayed healthy at around 1 billion euros. Our orders received for the last 12 months were approximately 1.8 billion euros. Due to the good operational execution and successful management of costs, at the end of June, our comparable operating profit margin on an LTM basis was 12.7%. Our balance sheet continues to be strong. At the end of June, our leverage ratio was zero, which is well below our long-term goal of a maximum of 2x. And our return on capital employed was 24.1% at the end of June. Finally, our cash conversion on an LTM basis was 99%. Let's then dive into the segments and starting with the equipment segment where we had stable development. Order intake was on the same level as in the comparison period, although we had fewer sizable orders in the quarter compared to the comparison period. And there was some slowness in the customer's decision making, which we experienced during the quarter. It's also good and also pleasant to note that we received several notable orders for fully electric equipment during the second quarter, as Sami explained. And finally, the equipment segment sales grew by 17% year on year to 321 million euros. In terms of profitability, the equipment segments performance can be described as resilient. Comparable operating profit margin increased driven by higher sales volumes and the majority of tariff impacts were successfully mitigated, although there was some impact still left. And then the comparable operating profit margin was somewhat below the previous quarters, and especially the comparison quarter of Q2 25, which was perhaps exceptionally high. The main reasons for the slightly lower COP margin was product mix and also some cost headwinds. Most notably freight costs and also to some extent oil products, EV components and then also tariffs still. Then looking at the services segment. There was a small decrease in orders received in the second quarter compared to last year, same period. This was because there were no larger orders for bigger service projects in the period in the second quarter this year. Also, the customers in the US have remained cautious with their orders. Sales, on the other hand, increased by 10% year on year and totaled 158 million euros. The services segment showed signs of early recovery in terms of profitability, thanks to cost optimization and sales growth actions. Comparable operating profit improved by 11% year on year and amounted to 27 million euros. This was thanks to volume growth and a successful mitigation of tariff impacts. And the comparable operating profit margin of the services segment was 17.0%. Then a brief look at the tariff landscape. There was a ruling by the US Supreme Court that the tariffs imposed under the IEPA were unlawful. Consequently, we have started to receive refunds, but the refunds had no impact on the second quarter result. Also, the tariff rate for forklifts and associated spare parts is lowered to 15% from the earlier 25. We continue to monitor this landscape closely. As in the previous quarters, our responses to tariffs have included mitigating actions with price increases, supply chain actions and other operational excellence initiatives in our operations, as well as some documentary requirements. Then a reflection on our driving excellence initiative. As you well remember, our target is to reach 50 million euros of gross efficiency improvements by the end of this year. And the initiative is proceeding very well. And the status at the end of the second quarter is that we have achieved approximately a run rate of 49 million euros of annualized gross efficiency improvements. So we are very close to the target already at this stage. As we have said before, the majority of the improvements secured originated from successful sourcing activities. Then a quick look at our return on capital employed. ROC in the second quarter reached 24.1%, and as you can see from the graph, there has been a stable upward trend since the beginning of 2025, and we are very close to our target of 25%. Our balance sheet was further strengthened during the quarter. Our leverage was zero, well below our long-term target of two times, and our gearing stood at 1.8%. The decrease in interest-bearing net debt, which improved our leverage ratio, was primarily a result of solid cash generation from operations. Our maturity profile of our loans remains unchanged. Our liquidity position is strong at 480 million euros and it includes an undrawn 200 million euro revolving credit facility, which will mature in 2030. On this slide, you can see our quarterly cash flow, which remained strong also in the second quarter, and our cash flow from operations before financing items and taxes amounted to 82 million euros. And as said before, our cash conversion for the last 12 months was 99%. And finally, as Sami already mentioned in the beginning of his presentation, our guidance for 2026 remains as follows. Calamar expects its comparable operating profit margin to be above 12.5% in 2026. And here you can see a summary of our half year report and maybe to still lift up a couple of highlights. Orders received in line with the comparison period. Comparable operating profit increased. And guidance remains unchanged. That will conclude my presentation. Thank you for your attention and let's now move over to Q&A.

Thank you, Sami and Sakari. Before we head into the Q&A, I would like to present an update on our Capital Markets Day invitation. So the CMD will be held on the 2nd of November, but the location will be Helsinki. And the preliminary schedule is such that we will start in the afternoon with the registration and then followed by the presentations and then also networking and dinner with the management. We will publish a more detailed agenda later on on our website. And then as a reminder, it will also be a virtual so you can both attend in person and via webcast. The registration is now open. So I wish you all warmly welcome to our capital market. And by that, I think we are ready to open the lines and start taking your questions. Thank you.

If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key 5 on your telephone keypad. To enter the queue, if you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key 6 on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Auntie Kansanen from Seb. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon, guys. A couple of questions from me, and I will start from the order or the demand side and related to Americas, where you've had quite the strong order growth both on the second quarter and first half of this year, and reflecting to the comments that you are making about gradual recovery and still kind of a cautious service market. So what is actually driving that kind of a high growth that you are seeing on the actual Americas orders?

Yeah, thank you, Antti. So yeah, basically the demand in America, it's a little bit mixed picture. So on the equipment side and especially in the distribution and customer segment, and then I'm referring to our terminal and tractor business. So that is developing positively and there we have seen the gradual improvement continuing now in Q2 as well, whereas the spare part business is still a bit of sluggish as it was in Q1.

but I'm just thinking about 38% year over year growth suggests more than a gradual recovery. So is there a contribution from a larger deals in Q2 or first half of this year specifically?

Yeah, I would say if you look at the Q2 orders there for terminal tractors, I think the orders, they have been coming from different customers and different dealers, I would say. So there are a little bit more sizable orders as well, but nothing extraordinary, I would say.

And the comparison period was really low, so you have to keep that in mind too.

Okay, fair enough. Then the second question is more on the geographical sales mix going forward. So kind of the sales and order trends are quite different in terms of EMEA and Americas. I mean, EMEA declined in order, strong sales growth, Americas vice versa. So will the mix shift in, let's say, that the share of Americas grow will that have a material impact on your profitability? I mean, you are flagging some of the cost elements related to tariffs and logistics and things like that. So is the profitability profile material different for your America's business versus EMEA, especially on the equipment side?

Yeah, let's say if you look at the variation there, and of course, quarters, they are always different to each other. And now, of course, if you look at the sales or if you look at the orders in EMEA, for instance, of course, we didn't have so many sizable orders this time there. When it comes to America's business, it really differs from different countries. customers and customer segments there as well whether it's a port and terminal customer or whether it's a distribution customer so but of course the highest uncertainties as such with tariffs of course they are more prominent in the American market but otherwise I think overall we have a solid profitability throughout the different regions and from

Production point of view is it is it a concern that the book two bills are quite different in terms of ma I mean it it looks that it's it's below one there while America's is growing so from production point of view does this drive some imbalances from your production footprint I

No, I think we have a good utilization in different factories and we try to balance them. And of course, you know, the largest factory that we have that is in Poland and that is a multi-machine factory manufacturing different kind of equipment to different markets as well. So I think we can drive with our footprint by having four factories and, you know, a couple of smaller partnerships in different parts of the world. I think we are able to drive our production in an efficient way. But of course, not all the factories are full at the moment. which is natural, of course, because we have had a bit of a slowdown in the distribution and customer market in the past. But okay, luckily now it's picking a little bit.

Of course, the lead times also differ between the different types of equipment. We've had larger orders, for example, in the horizontal side earlier, which, of course, are now longer lead time and therefore fill up the factories for a longer time.

Okay. And then the last one was still on because you mentioned the equipment margin or sales mix impact on the equipment margin that year ago it was maybe extraordinary strong and now a little bit weaker. So what is this kind of comment referring to? Which product type?

Yeah, first of all, as I already alluded a little bit to is, you know, the quarterly fluctuation. It's quite visible in our type of business. So in Q1, for instance, we had lower sales and then we had, you know, relatively better margin there. And now in Q2, it's a little bit different. So I think the equipment margin, it's two things basically behind that one. It's the product mix and it's about, you know, maybe larger deliveries that we were able to deliver during the quarter. That might be one reason there. But then it's about the cost headwind as well. And with the cost headwind, of course, we mean the basically material costs as well as logistics related costs, rates and so forth, as well as tariffs. So that's a little bit larger area, I would say so. But it was a combination of those two. So product mix between different divisions, between different portfolios, I mean, product types as well, and then the cost side.

And out of the costs, probably the most prominent is the logistics cost, I'm afraid. Correct.

All right. Thank you. Thank you.

The next question comes from Panu Leitonmäki from Danske Bank. Please go ahead.

Hi, thanks for taking my questions. I have two. Continuing on the margin topic, so you said that the Improving Excellence Program has been more or less kind of completed, but your margin was down from ago and on a kind of last 12 months basis, it's about the same as it was a year or two ago. How should we think about delivers going forward to the 15% margin target? So what will kind of drive you there if the excellence program is completed or will you get kind of some kind of lagging impact to P&L from access you have already done?

Thank you for the question. Completed, maybe I wouldn't use that word because of course it's a continuous improvement and now we are at 49 million euro level there and of course we continue our actions and the whole driving excellence program it's about focusing on sourcing, I mean the product cost side, it's about improving processes, it's about pricing and it's about operating models so of course there are more ingredients there even though Sakari rightly said that okay so far Most of the savings have been coming from sourcing activities there. So, of course, that will continue and the whole focus there. Then we will be, of course, focusing on the cost side as well, whether it's a part of the driving excellence or some other initiatives, of course, that is important as well. So we need to look at both fixed cost, of course, as well as as well as running costs in operations. And then, of course, pricing, as I said, that is very crucial as well, because we have the tariff headwind, you know, in America's region.

And still on the driving excellence. I mean, one thing, of course, is that we're not going to stop at 49 million because we're close to the target. We continue pushing. And the other thing is that, of course, we talk about run rate costs. So it means that those costs, which were where we completed the actions in the second quarter, actually didn't hit the second quarter. They will come with a lag and the full year impact will, of course, continue into 27.

And maybe we have previously, we have commented on what kind of portion could have materialized basically out of this 49 million. We say that less than a half so far, of course. So there is this time lag naturally. And then we have had tariffs, of course. So some of the dilution is going there.

And since you were asking for the levers, I think it's important to remember that nothing has changed on on kind of sales growth and driving the service growth to and adding those to the driving excellence, then important parts of improving service profitability. Yes.

Okay, thanks. Secondly, I wanted to ask about the tariffs. So you mentioned that it actually decreases for the forklifts and some other Equipment. So how material that will be for you as a tailored

Yeah, I would say Q2, the previous quarter, it was pretty similar in terms of percentage of tariffs for different products than Q1. So no major differences there. And I think a little bit too early to say now in the middle of July if that will change. But we think that the overall tariff landscape or the percentages, they will remain within similar levels what we have had so far in the year. No major changes I expected there, but must say that the situation and the guidelines and instructions and the policies and processes, you know, it's quite fluid still. So there are different regulations, you know, coming back and forth, but we are prepared, you know, to manage that situation in a good way. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

The next question comes from Michael Dopel from Nordia. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Good afternoon, everybody. Thanks for taking my questions. So just coming back to your discussion previously on the US demand, just a couple of questions there. First of all, I mean, obviously the orders are I'm just wondering if you see these trends continuing into Q3, or if it was more on the equipment side, or if it was more of some big orders booked in the quarter. And the second question is on the spare parts demand in the U.S., which you say sluggishness has been sluggish for a couple of quarters. Why do you think that is? Is there anything you can point to? Is the dealer destocking some certain areas, regions, any more color you can give on that and what you expect going forward.

Good question. So no de-stocking there any longer. I think we talked about it in the previous quarter as well. I think there is even there, you know, between the equipment activity and the parts, spare parts activity, there might be some time lags there as well. So they don't go exactly hand in hand. When we get the equipment orders, if that is picking up gradually on the same day or quarter even, you know, there might not be parts orders. coming up. So that time lag might explain something and then I think one indicator or KPI that we are following very carefully is the cash freight index basically explaining the material movements in the country and in US. So I think okay there has been a bit of positive development from very low levels in the beginning of this year but it's not reflecting the parts business yet. So that has some kind of linkage to the parts business there. But on the equipment side and especially terminal tractor side as you rightly said that has been developing more positively and we are happy with that that we finally after after you know one and a half two years in a very slow period I think now we are able to at least show some kind of gradual improvement there it's it's a very crucial business for our for our American market okay

The line was breaking there a bit, sorry. Just repeat what was the second reason. I mean, you talked about the time lags between spare parts and equipment, but then you said something else also as a reason for US being sluggish. I missed that. If you just briefly repeat it.

Cash freight index, one KPI we are following carefully is the cash freight index, which is basically visualizing the material movements in a simple way, if I put it in the country. So that has been on very low levels. It has continued since 2023, if I remember right, on a macro scale. And now lately, last couple of months, it has been picking up a little bit, but it's not reflecting the parts business yet. So that was the second thing what I mentioned.

Okay, thank you. All right. And overall, if you think about the demand, if you look at your sales funnels and pipelines for orders ahead, I mean, I think you said that you're quite happy with the order intake in the quarter, given that was basically flattish, despite not having as much big orders as before. How would you describe the sales funds and the pipelines for orders going ahead?

I'm quite happy with the orders and I think because now for the first two quarters of the year of course we have been pretty much on similar levels and there has been improvement on those smaller machine orders and not only you know sizable orders so therefore It's a little bit positive, of course. And then when we look at the pipeline, of course, what we say is that the demand for the next, I mean, the market demand for the next six months or so will look or looks similar to the previous quarter. So no major change there. And I think our order or sales pipeline is on a healthy level.

Okay.

And then just finally on the service margins, we saw some pick up there and I think Sakari also mentioned that improving these margins is another key lever to get to the 50% margin. I'm just wondering on the service side, what would you say are the key levers to improve the margins from here?

Yeah, I think the actions that we have already taken during this year and will continue. And they are, of course, exactly the same what we have in our services strategy. But of course, it's very important to focus on customers. I mean, be active, proactive with customers and gain volume. I think volume is very crucial. Then, of course, the cost side, we need to balance with the volume in a good way. as well, pricing. We have the tariff landscape very prominent in the US, for instance, but everywhere we need to work on now actively on strategic pricing for services. And then I think driving excellence, I would lift up as well as one of the focus areas, because that is impacting the services business as well. But then within services, portfolio, of course. Then we have the parts and logistics solutions. Super important. Then we have maintenance part. We have lifecycle solutions and we do have digital business. So those are included in our services portfolio.

So we are focusing on all of them. And of course, the spare parts demand and market development is very crucial there. And also to be proactive and sell the spare parts. Yes. It's not only a part market. Yes.

Okay.

No, that's fair. Thank you very much. Thank you.

As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Tom Skogman from DNB Carnegie. Please go ahead.

Yes, hello, this is Tom Skogman from D&B Carnegie. Most of my questions have already been answered, but I would perhaps like to, you know, dig a bit deeper on why, you know, the savings are disappearing. You see, I understand that you have some cost headwinds, but what has happened really to your kind of pricing? Do you see that, you know, the market price are eroding in the market, or why don't we see any improvement in the margin from the post-initiative?

Yeah, I would say not disappearing as such, of course, because when we report 49 million cross savings, as I said, you know, less than a half has materialized so far. We have had the tariff landscape now lately, some cost headwinds there as well. And then, of course, important to remember, What we have also communicated since the beginning in our strategy is that we will be investing part of that part of those efficiency gains in R&D innovation, I mean, as well as services. So we want to grow in the future. So it's not only about, you know, optimizing the bottom line basically with that driving excellence program, but it's really going to different directions. So therefore, we cannot say that it's disappearing. But of course, tariff landscape, it's something that is diluting and it's taking some of those efficiency gains of course negatively but luckily we have that program ongoing and we have been successful with it so therefore we have been able to mitigate some of those headwinds.

Okay and can you give some kind of indication how large the tariff reasons will be on the EBIT level in Q3 and Q4?

that will be difficult to estimate so far what we can say is that so far in Q2 or year to date now we talk about low single digit number in refunds with no impact on Q2 so no single digit number in millions of euros for the second half correct year to date

for the first half for the first half what we have received until today until today on the refunds but nothing booked in the P&L okay and is that kind of all it will be on the P&L or will there be more you know next year I don't know how this will work out so

Yeah, we are following up on the situation and monitoring it carefully. So this is where we are at the moment. So let's see how the situation develops, of course. But then on the refund, of course, we need to take them case by case, of course. There are different division, different kind of products and different kind of pricing we have had also in the past. So this is the best information what we have available today.

Okay and then on electric products can you kind of confirm that your growth margin is pretty similar to you know the old fossil machines?

Yeah that's definitely when it comes to a core portfolio machines I mean on a broader scale as well as electric machines that's of course the aim that we will drive the profitability sustainable profitable growth in all the equipment of course then there might be Oyj B

And 12% of all equipment orders in the second quarter. Yes.

But the question was, is the sales or growth margin basically similar?

Yeah, I think I answered it in the beginning. So yes, that's the target with everything that we do. And then, of course, 2028, which is two and a half years away, basically. So the target is the mentioned 15% comparable operating profit for the entire company.

And also with the electric machines, you have to remember the solution and the value selling part where you add a solution with the services and so forth. So the options and the opportunities that lies ahead is something that you need to keep in mind.

So are they more often sold including a service contract, which means that

you know equipment margins could be lower but then you have better service visibility is that right I wouldn't say like that but let's say more often definitely we target to have service agreements all the machines are important of course but when the customers are investing in fully electric machines they might be a little bit more advanced sophisticated they need to change the way of working there so therefore they need you know trusted partners like Calamar to really stay close to the customers so so yes that's the aim and that's that you know that's visible also in our sales statistics when we sell fully electric machines especially to you know a little bit larger packages of course the customers they rely on our support okay thank you thank you

there are no more questions at this time so I hand the conference back to the speakers

Thank you for the active dialogue and we are now in the end of the presentation and ready to conclude the second quarter call. We are very happy to see you or hear you online and we wish you to see you soon. And I would like to remind you at the same time that our third quarter, 2026, will be published on the 29th of October. Thank you for now and I wish all of you who are heading for your summer holidays a very nice rest of the summer and the rest of the day. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye bye