Nemetschek Se Unsp/Adr

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the NEMSCHEK Earnings Call Half-Year Financial Report 2026. My name is Yousef, the course call operator. I would like to remind you that all participants will be in listen-only mode in that this conference is being recorded. The presentation will be followed by a question and answer session. You can register for questions at any time by pressing star followed by one on your telephone. For operator assistance, you may press star followed by zero. The conference must not be recorded for publication or for broadcast. At this time, it's my pleasure to hand over to Stefanie Zimmermann. Please go ahead.

Thank you, Operator, and hello, everyone, and a warm welcome. Thank you for joining our earnings call today to discuss the results for the second quarter and the first half of 2026 with us. With me today are our CEO, Yves Padrine, and our CFO, Louis Superström. Today's conference call is being recorded A replay of the call will be available at our website after the call. Additionally, you will find the quarterly report, the presentation and the press release on our investor relations website as well. But now let's get started. So I would like to turn over to our CEO, Yves.

Thank you, Stefanie. Welcome everyone to our H1 2026 earnings call. You have probably all seen our pre-release on Tuesday with our fully confirmed organic guidance as well as our expected outlook following the completion of the HCSS acquisition. As usual, we have prepared a short but informative presentation containing the most important information with regards to our second quarter, as well as first half year results that our CFO, Louise Ofverstrom, and I will briefly walk you through so that we have enough time to address any questions you may have in the end. To begin with, on page number three, please find some highlights of the most important aspects of the second quarter as well as the first half of 2026. Firstly, I will summarize our second quarter 2026 as very successful, with a continuation of the remarkable momentum we have seen at the beginning of the year. This development was again first and foremost driven by an excellent performance in our build segment, which continued its outstanding growth trajectory also in the second quarter. At the same time, the design segment continued to show a strong growth despite the exceptionally high comparison base in Q2. The reported EBITDA margin in Q2 was impacted by the slightly negative foreign currency translation effect, and in addition, an extraordinary transactional currency effect, as well as M&A related costs. If we adjust the reported EBITDA margin only for the acquisition-related one-off costs, the margin would have already been at 31%. With our H1 results, we are therefore where we wanted to be after the first six months of the year, driven by the strong increasing recurring revenue in the design and build segments, and despite the weaker-than-expected development in our media segment. The increase in the underlying profitability, so excluding FX and M&A effects, demonstrates our healthy operating leverage, the continued focus on our cost-based and continuous improvements and operational excellence. The foundation for this very strong operational performance is the continued progress we have made across all our key strategic focus areas. whether that is in AI with a successful rollout of multiple agentic AI-based products such as Bluebeam Max or Next Design Intelligence Platform and of course the ongoing subscription transition and the transformational acquisition of HCSS. These initiatives and investments are not only paying off already today, they are also making sure the Nemetschek Group is fully prepared for the future. Based on a very successful start of the year, as well as a continued progress on our strategic initiatives, we are therefore well on track to once again reach all our goals for the financial year and therefore fully reiterate our organic outlook for 2026. In addition, we also expand our outlook following the acquisition of HCSS, but more details on that later in our presentation. On page number four, You see an overview of the corresponding figures to the Q2 development that we just discussed. Overall, we continued our strong growth dynamic and delivered another very good quarter and a strong finish to the first half of the year 2026. Starting with the ARR or annual recurring revenue. As a result of one of our key strategic priorities, the transition to a subscription and SaaS centric business model. Our annual recurring revenue recorded an increase of plus 15.9%. If we adjust for the FX headwind we had in the second quarter, mainly steamed from the weaker US dollar, our ARR increased by plus 17.4%. The main driver behind this strong growth were once again the revenue from our subscription and SaaS offerings, which increased by plus 29.6% in constant currency. Thanks to this substantial growth in our recurring revenue base, we were able to strongly increase our revenues once again, despite a very high comparison base in our design and build segment and the weaker than expected performance in media in Q2. by plus 13% on a reported basis. On an ethics-adjusted basis, the growth even amounted to plus 14.5%. The main growth driver was once again the exceptional performance of our build segment, in particular Bluebeam, which continued to benefit from strong network effects, its successful international expansion, and the unprecedented investment in data centers. In addition, we also saw a good growth in the design segment which continued its successful subscription transition, including the sale of multi-year contracts to convert existing maintenance customers to subscription. The EBITDA increased by 11.5% plus 15.8% to €98.6 million in the second quarter, corresponding to a reported EBITDA margin of 30.1%. However, in addition to a slightly negative translation currency effect stemmed from the weaker US dollar, the EBDA was also impacted by an extraordinary transactional currency effect. This effect in the higher single digit million euro range resulted from the revaluation of assets and liabilities held in a non-functional currency of an individual group company as of the reporting date due to the due to the significant and unexpected exchange rate fluctuation during the quarter. Furthermore, the reported EBITDA margin already includes acquisition-related one-off costs of a low single-digit million euro amount. Adjusted for this one acquisition-related cost only, the EBITDA margin in Q2 amounted to 31%. Finally, net income for the quarter, also driven by a strongly improved financial results, grew over proportionally by 20.3% to 66 million euros, resulting in earnings per share of 57 cents. Before Louise will dive deeper into our Q2 financial results as well as the first half of the year, I would like to use this opportunity to also give you an update on our defined strategic focus areas and the various highlights in the first six months of the year on page number five. Starting on the left side, Artificial intelligence plays a pivotal role for us, not only in optimizing our own internal processes and productivity, but especially in advancing our product development to deliver even greater value to our customers and shareholders. Our goal is clear, to become the construction AI leader. We are deeply convinced that AI represents a tremendous opportunity and we are ideally positioned to capture it. Over decades, we have built deep knowledge, expertise, and strong integration into our customers' workflows, as well as long-standing, trusted customer relationships, strong network effects, and vast industry-specific data sets across the entire lifecycle, primarily for buildings, and now with the acquisition of HESS, also in the infrastructure and heavy civil sector. Over the past months, we have already introduced several truly value-adding AI features into our product portfolio. For example, we successfully rolled out our agentic AI suite, Bluebeam Max. Bluebeam Max supports users with time-consumed tasks such as quality control in the pre-construction phase, document analysis, quantity takeoff, and 2D to 3D conversion. thereby increasing productivity and efficiency throughout key construction processes. In addition, we launched our next generation design intelligence platform that uses AI and integrated simulation to help teams in the design and planning phase to make better decisions during the design process. As you all know, one of our absolute top priorities over the last few years was to strengthen both our resilience and long-term growth potential by increasing the share of recurring revenue through our transition to a subscription and SaaS-centric business model. I'm very pleased to say that this transition is progressing extremely well. We are seeing strong momentum across the group, especially in the design segment, where the pace of the shift continued to be high. As a result, we reached a new record share of recurring revenue for the group, a direct result of the dynamic growth in our subscription and SaaS business. Over the past six months, we have continued to enhance our go-to-market approach even further, especially by expanding our international presence and the successful internationalization of our brands. Our goal is twofold. First, to make our business more resilient by reducing our dependency on a single market or region. And second, to unlock new growth opportunities for the Nemetschek Group in high potential regions. This is why we continued our expansion into high growth markets such as Southeast Asia to complement our expansion into India and the Middle East as Nemetschek, representing the full portfolio of the Group. Going forward, we will continue this strategy and expand into new markets and regions in the coming quarters and years. M&A has always been an integral part of the Nemetschek Group's DNA and a key driver of our long-term success story. We have a strong track record of highly successful and value-accurative acquisitions. The latest example, which is only the largest Which is also the largest acquisition in the Nemetschek Group history is HCSS, which increase our market opportunity by 30% in the highly attractive infrastructure and heavy civil market. By combining HCSS with our leading brands in the build segment, we create the next construction tech giant with a unique combination of scale, In addition, we also did some smaller technology acquisitions such as Morfolio, which is a leading provider of mobile design apps for architects and designers, which strengthens our design ecosystem by seamlessly connecting early-stage conceptual design and Sketching with professional BeamCAD workflows while adding differentiated AI and mobile capabilities. Another very small bolt-on acquisition was MBU, which strengthens our AI capabilities in pre-construction and construction document workflow and will therefore further enhance RubyMax with specialized workflow-driven AI. These acquisitions are mainly technology-centric with almost or very, very low revenue. In parallel, we are also continuing our dedicated venture investment strategy. Over the past years, as you know, we have made several minority investments in highly innovative AI-driven startups, which align perfectly with our long-term AI and technology strategy. A good example is our recent strategic investment in DAOX, which strengthens our long-term AI strategy by enabling trusted data ecosystem and secure data exchange. Key prerequisites for the next generation of AI powered and agent workflows across the AECO lifecycle. There is no construction AI without trusted AI, and this is why DAOX is helping the market with. And last but not least, in the area of business enablement, we work on the further harmonization and further enhance operational excellence across the Nemetschek group. Artificial intelligence also plays an increasing role internally, for example in software development, customer success and support, etc. And we are increasingly leveraging AI to further enhance efficiency and harmonize processes across the group. And with that, I hand it over to you, Louise.

Thank you, Yves, and a warm welcome to our earnings poll for the second quarter as well as for the first six months of the financial year 2026 from my side as well. Eva has already touched on some of our key financial figures, so I will therefore now give a deeper look at a bit more detail on the results and underlying drivers behind the most important financial aspects of our Q2 and of the first half year of 2026. So, yeah, I would say in line with what we just heard from Yves, I see the first half of the financial year 2026 as a strong testament to our strategic direction with high and profitable growth, as well as good and consistent progress in all our strategic focus areas. On page number seven, you can see a summary of the results of our strong progress in the first half year of 2026. And let us start with our top line development here. For the period of January to June, we recorded a reported growth of 11.9% to 640.7 million euros. If we adjust for the continued FX headwinds, especially in the first quarter, and those are mainly stemming from the weaker US dollar, we achieved a strong revenue growth of 15.7%. And as expected and fully in line with confirming the good progress of the execution of a strategic roadmap, the main growth driver was once again the recurring part of our business. And this is reflected in our annual recurring revenue, ARR, which increased by 17.4% at constant currencies to 1.25 billion euros and that is driven by our subscription and SaaS revenues which grew by an impressive 32.4 percent at constant currencies reaching 514.7 million euros. Our reported EVTA increased by 16.5% to 197 million euros in the first six months of the year, and that corresponds to a reported EVTA margin of 30.7%. However, negatively impacted by the aforementioned extraordinary transactional currency effect in the higher single digit million euro range in Q2, and as well as mentioned by Yves by M&A related costs. Adjusting for the M&A related costs in the first half of the year only, the EBITDA margin reached 31.5% in the first half of the year. Our profitability developed in the first half of the year and the expected strong underlying improvement in the second half are fully in line with the guidance we provided in March and consistent with the seasonal patterns we have seen over the past few years. We therefore remain very confident to achieve a full year EVTA margin guidance of 32 to 33 percent Driven by our abilities to scale, our healthy operating leverage, our relentless focus on cost efficiency and effectiveness, as well as continuous improvements in operational excellence, despite ongoing investments into the strong future growth of our business and the ongoing subscription transition in the design segment. Lastly, the right hand side of the slide highlights our continued good cash generation and the high quality of our balance sheet, despite the expected and deliberate increase in net debt of around 100 million euros at the end of the quarter to prepare for the closing of the HCSS acquisition as of July 1st. Let's turn to page 8, where you will find the development of our four segments during the first half of 2026. So starting on the left side with our design segment as usual, in the first six months of the year, the segment recorded a growth of 7.3%, which is 9.7% on a constant currency basis. to €279.1 million. The transition to a subscription and SaaS-based business model continued to be the main growth driver, just as expected, and progressed successfully and according to plan, reflected in the very strong growth of this revenue category of 50.4% on an FX adjusted basis. During the first half of the year, we continued to sell multiple contracts to support the migration of existing maintenance customers to a subscription-based model at our Graphisoft and Alplan brands only. Despite a strong underlying operating performance, as you can see, the reported EBTA margin for the first half contracted to 23.9%. And this reflects an impact from an extraordinary transactional currency effect. As mentioned, this effect in this higher single digit million euro range resulted from the revaluation of the assets and liability held in a non-functional currency of one of our individual group companies. And as of the reporting date, there were significant and unexpected exchange rate fluctuations during the second quarter in that single currency. Excluding this effect, the segment's margin would have been strong and more in line at a comparable level to last year. Continuing with our build segment, that continued to deliver a stellar performance also in the second quarter, driven by high underlying growth in new users in the US, but also internationally. As a reminder, in 2025, The build segment benefited from the inorganic contribution of GoCanvas as well as by temporary positive effects following the successful completion of Bluebees subscription transition. Consequently, and as fully expected, growth moderated somewhat in the first half of the year of 2026, yet at a still outstanding high level. For the first half year 2026, the segment recorded revenue growth of 21.1%. Excluding the still significant FX headwind from the weaker US dollar that especially hits this segment, the growth reached a high 27.1%. The EBITDA margin in the first half in this segment reached a very strong 39.8%, an increase of around 520 basis points year on year, and that is despite continued investments to support the strong expected future growth. Let us move on to our smallest segment, Manage, which recorded a growth of 3.9% on a reported and 3.8% on an FX adjusted basis in the first half of the year. Here we saw continued good demand and a well-stocked sales pipeline across both existing and new customers, particularly in the public and financial sectors. And this provides a strong foundation for growth acceleration in the second half of the year in line with our guidance, especially during the end of the second quarter, growth accelerated, particularly for software solutions in the areas of workspace management and energy efficiency, and therefore increased growth rates at the end of the quarter towards double digit revenue growth already. For the first half of the year 2026, the segment's EBTA margin amounted to 7.8% versus 9.3% amid continued investments into the future expected growth of the business. And last but not least, let me come to our media segment, where the reported revenue declined slightly by 0.7% to 59 million, while the FX adjusted growth amounted to 3.3%. The segment's business performance was impacted by the ongoing challenging market environment, as mentioned, especially in the important US market, and where customer spending simply remains cautious and decision-making and sales cycles continue to be strongly prolonged amid ongoing customer consolidation and subdued spending on content creation as well. Also here, the last month of the quarter showed first signs of stronger growth acceleration, The EBTA margin of the segment expanded in the first half to 29.8% from 28.1% last year. In addition, during the first half of the year, the media segment has laid important foundations for higher future growth. including diversification and the launch of new products like ArcheVis, the rendering solution to further drive expansion into the ACO industry and also the introduction of a digital twin solution for real products only to mention a few in this segment. But let us now turn to slide nine and to a topic that has been a regular feature of our earnings call over recent years. The successful transformation of our business model towards subscription and SaaS. The progress we have made is clearly reflected in the revenue mix shown on the left of the slide. In the first half of 2026, recurring revenues reached a new record level of 95% of group revenues. Subscription and SaaS revenues now accounts for 80% in the group compared to only a small proportion of a business when we began this transition. The middle of the slide puts this whole development into a longer term perspective. And since the first half of 2022, Total recurring revenues have increased from 250 million to 609 million euros, mainly driven by the strong subscription and sales revenues, which have increased from 93 million to 515 million euros. This means that we have expanded this more predictable and resilient revenue stream by more than five times within less than four years. The momentum also remained strong in the second quarter here. ARR and recurring revenues both grew by 17.4% at a constant currency, while subscription and SaaS revenues increased by 29.6% at constant currency. At the same time, license revenues declined by 40.8% at constant currency. And this is, as you know, intended and a consequence of our transition as consistent customers now increasingly move from perpetual licenses or completely move from perpetual licenses to subscription offerings. Licenses therefore now contribute only to 2% of total group revenues and therefore have an increasingly limited impact on our overall performance. Altogether, the figures on this slide demonstrate that our business model transition remains fully on track and continues to strengthen the quality, the visibility, and the resilience of our revenues going forward. As usual, and to conclude our revenue of the first half of 2026, we provide a more detailed overview of the key P&L and cash flow items here on page number 10. We have already addressed our main KPIs such as revenue growth and EVTA margin in more detail, and therefore let us now have a closer look at the details of our cost base and at its underlying drivers. Here you can see that we are seeing strong leverage in our OPEC structures, driven by economies of scale in our growing portfolio and also our relentless focus on both cost efficiencies and also cost effectiveness. And that also was a clear trend throughout the first half of the year 2026. Let us have a closer look at the personnel cost, the largest component, with a share of roughly 50% of our total operating expenses. Here we saw a reported year-over-year increase of 7.1% in the first half of 2026, which is clearly below our revenue growth. Despite impacts of personnel costs that we had from the technology acquisitions, the small acquisitions we made, and also some seasonal differences. In other words, thanks to our healthy operating leverage, our various operational excellence initiatives, our cost base grows at a very reasonable pace and therefore contributes nicely to the continuous increase in underlying profitable growth. The higher than usual increase in other operating income and expenses, as you can see here, is mainly attributable to the M&A related cost of the HCSS acquisition. Going further down the P&L, you see the over-proportional growth in our earnings per share with an over-proportional increase of 29.9%. This strong development is supported by a strongly improved financial result, which is driven by a substantial positive effect in the other financial income and resulting mainly from the hedging we did in conjunction with the acquisition of HCSS. Coming to the cash conversion after the first six months of the year, that came on in below the high level of 180% in the prior year. And whilst the underlying cash conversion is unchanged very strong and high, the quarter was primarily impacted by a number of special effects happening in the second quarter that The main effect coming from a change in invoicing timing for Bluebeam, as Bluebeam is a major part of our portfolio that has an impact. It doesn't have a revenue impact. It has a one time effect on the cash. That's why not a lasting effect, but a one time effect. We had some tax prepayments. We had some negative foreign exchange effect that all concluded into the second quarter. And there was a smaller effect on the cash flow impact from the multi-year contract. So if I were to exclude these extraordinary effects, the cash conversion for the first half of the year would have been around 110% and therefore broadly in line with the prior year level. And whilst we had special effects in both years, the average still circulates around and above one based on our operating performance as we are used to. Despite the increase in net debt at the end of the second quarter, in line with our strategic acquisition roadmap, as well as additional debt incurred after the closing of the HACS still in the third quarter, we maintained a very solid balance sheet. And in addition, thanks to our aforementioned good operating performance, as well as a very strong cash flow generation, we will be able to very quickly deliver and return swiftly to our usual Outstanding balance sheet metrics. So all in all, I believe it's really fair to say that the financial performance in the second quarter builds on the very strong start of the year and concludes a very successful first half of 2026. And with that, I'll hand it back to you Yves.

Thank you very much Louise for this comprehensive overview of our financial results. As we come to the end of our presentation on page number 12, I would like to turn to organic guidance for the current financial year 2026, as well as expanded outlook following the acquisition of HGSS. As I highlighted earlier in the presentation, our H1 results are fully in line with our expectation, and we have laid a very good foundation to once again achieve all our targets for the financial year. Based on the strong fundamentals, as well as our very resilient operational business model, we fully confirm our organic guidance for fiscal year 2026 after the first half of the year. We continue to expect an attractive growth at a high profitability in 2026 as well, even despite the high comparison base of the previous year, as well as the ongoing subscription transition in our design segment. In particular, The Executive Board continues to expect a revenue growth at constant currency of 14% to 15%. In addition, the EBITDA margin is forecasted to be in the range of 32% to 33%. Excluding only the acquisition-related one of costs, the EBITDA margin expectation would have even been at the upper end of the guidance range. Following the first time consolidation of HESS as of July 1st, 2026, the Executive Board estimates an additional currency adjusted contribution to the group revenue growth after taking into account the currently estimated PPA effect of around 600 basis points in the financial year 2026. Including the acquisition-related one-off costs, and therefore, starting from the midpoint of the reported organic EBITDA margin guidance of 32% to 33%, a dilution of around 150 basis points is expected following the HCSS acquisition. This mainly reflects the expected impacts of the purchase price allocation for HCSS. as well as ongoing integration expense and recurring expense related to a newly established share-based compensation program designed to support and drive value creation in the expanded build segment over the coming years. The mentioned PPA effects and here in particular the deferred revenue haircut mandatory under IFRS will be recognized over a period of 12 months and is expected to be front-end loaded with the majority being recognized during the first six months after closing. Based on the preliminary estimates, it is therefore expected to reduce the revenue contribution of HGSS by a mid to high 20s million euro amount in the second half of 2026 with a corresponding impact on the EBITDA. So please let me highlight here that these figures therefore do not yet reflect the full potential of the HGSS acquisition. In this context, however, I would also like to emphasize that in addition to our standard remarks that the guidance is based on our assumption that there are no material changes in the global macroeconomic or industry-specific conditions, Our expanded guidance is also based on the fact that the financial contribution of the HCSS acquisition for fiscal year 2026 remains preliminary, as the final financial impact of the acquisition, including the resulting PPA charges, will only be finalized later this year. So to conclude and summarize the presentation for the first six months of the year 2026, Our financial results, along with our fully confirmed organic guidance, show that we are once again delivering on our promises and goals. And this is true for operational development, where we continue to show industry-leading growth, and also for key strategic initiatives which build the basis for our continued high and profitable growth in the future. And with that said, I would like to thank you for your attention, and we are now ready to take your questions, so operator, please back to you.

We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on their touchtone telephone. You will hear a tone to confirm that you have entered the queue. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to only use handsets while asking a question. Anyone who has a question may press star 1 at this time. Our first question comes from George Webb, Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.

Hi, afternoon, Yves and Louise. I've got three questions, please. Firstly, just as Bluebeam Max has been available through that reseller channel now for a little bit of time, what are you seeing in terms of the early adoption rates or any feedback there would be helpful? Secondly, on media, I acknowledge those growth initiatives you're putting to work to turn around the second performance. Curious how patient you're willing to be with the segment if the growth doesn't start to meaningfully uplift? And what are you kind of internally monitoring to gain confidence?

Sorry, George, to interrupt. We have a very, very bad audio and it's impossible to understand what you say. So we have huge distortion. So let us try to change the audio and see if it can be better. Sorry.

You are now live, sir.

Is the staff safe?

Yeah, one second. We need to turn something off. So one second. Can you please talk?

Yeah. Is this Clara?

Yeah, much better. Sorry, I apologize, George.

Yeah, all good, all good. I'll start from the top. Yeah, so three questions. The first one, just on Bluebeam Max, given it's been available through the reseller channel for a period of time, I'm kind of curious in what you're seeing and hearing in terms of the early adoption rates and additional levels of feedback you've been getting. Secondly, on media, I kind of acknowledge that you've got these growth initiatives going on to turn around the segment performance but curious how patient you're willing to be if that growth doesn't start to immediately uplift and I guess relatedly how important is the architectural visualization it brings to the design segment or if this segment does remain structurally diluted to group growth would you consider different solutions for it and then this last day technical question around the HCSS contribution if I look at the guidance The 6% growth impact you've called out, I think, implies about 70 million euros in the second half. And if I unwind the kind of mid to high 20s million revenue haircut, you're kind of talking around 100 million euros for H2, which simplistically would be 200 million euros on an annualized basis for 2026. That feels a little light, given that HSS, I think you called out, did 250 million, 215 million US dollars last year, which I think is about 185 million euros. and you've obviously talked to the high teams growth plus you'd expect out of HSS. So curious on that bridge, is that a US gap to IFRS translation? And if you can add anything around where you're seeing HSS growth this year, that would be great. Thank you.

Many thanks, George. So to answer your first question on BlubyMax, so clearly, as you know, we launched BlubyMax first in February, which was only for large enterprise customers. and then we were planning to roll out only in Q3 Bluebeam Max globally also to resellers and to the web, et cetera. And as you know, we have done that already back end of May. So we have around two months now of rollout of Bluebeam Max and I must say that we are extremely positive. The performance and the rollout is better than planned but we have to be also cautious because at the end of the day, at the beginning, you know all the early adopters and the huge fans are the one really jumping on the product so now we have to see what would be the adoption of Bluebeam Max over time but clearly the feedback that we get is that users are really happy with some of the current features available for example the AI assisted growing review and smart review they see clearly speed and productivity gains you know they report that Bui Max lets them do more, do it faster and with high degree of accuracy, which is of course highly important in construction, especially for pre-construction, drawing reviews, and BIM preparation. And then, you know, they also like, you know, this link between PDF and BIM, where we now know these architects and BIM-oriented teams, you know, they really like You know, the fact that we are able to connect 2D markup to BIM models and pushing comments back into, for example, Revit or Archicad and other design tools, which reduced rework and then also miscommunication between PDF review and authoring tools. And of course, as I said, we are, for the moment, onboarding the super users. And the good news is that we are clearly evolving now our product roadmap for Bluemix. There will be also new features available within the next few months and before even the end of the year. This is why also we had made this small, very small acquisition, you know, which is this small tech startup called MBU, which is no revenue, but really helping us in their technology to accelerate our Bluebeam Max. So overall highly positive and so far in term of pricing as you know it is introduction in price so that's why we have the opportunity to also increase the price after 12 months with some of these customers but of course as we are going to also inject more new features which should bring more efficiency and productivity gain to our users We are also planning to have different type of packages and also probably more consumption pricing model in addition to the subscription that the user are paying for. But for the moment, our main focus is to make sure that we have as much adoption as possible. We need to show that the efficiency and productivity gain is here, et cetera. Second question on media. Obviously, disappointing performance. And here, the disappointing performance is mainly coming for contraction with our customer base. And this contraction, interestingly, is not coming necessarily by AI or whatever. It is mainly due to the fact that we have, for example, more consolidation in the market, especially when you have large M&A going on in media and entertainment. Or you have also very large, massive downsizing in media and entertainment. If you take a few weeks ago the example of Microsoft's game business unit, which downsized by around 3,000 people. And therefore, once we have renewals of some of these accounts, there is a contraction because we have less users than we used to. Now, to try to counterbalance that within the next few months and quarters, which might not materialize too much short-term, but more for next year, we are going to bring more consumption-based type of pricing on Maxon. And then, we have also, as we said, now launching this rendering solution for architectures called Redshift Archviz. which was first developed on Vectorworks and now also available on Autodesk Revit. Since June, we announced that at AIA and it's now also on a beta test on RCICAD. But of course, for that to materialize and to have significant revenue, it will also take time. So it's not like we will see big needle mover change on the revenue within the next few weeks and months. It will take a little bit longer. So, yes, for the moment, it is disappointing. Now, is architecture and RVs an important piece for AAC business? Well, it is complementing it, but for the moment, we see it is business in rendering and still part of the Maxon business. And we see the Maxon business in the media and entertainment division of the Nemetschek Group as still a separate We are treating this business still separated, so therefore it's not fully integrated in terms of GNA, etc. We will do our best now to try to recover, but we are not expecting any longer these high single-digit or even double-digit growth for Maxon this year and we are reviewing our guidance to be more in the around the mid single digit revenue growth for 2026 for Maxon.

Okay and maybe I take the third question which was on the contribution by HGSS and I think your train of thought is absolutely correct. I think you might be slightly off on the numbers. There's no change whatsoever on the On the growth in HGSS as expected of the higher teams and it's really delivering well. So where it really differs a little bit is your assumption on the deferred revenue haircut. And that's also the only adoption that we have in the revenue between US GAAP and IFRS as you know. So that's why as we have said it's in the in the in the mid to higher 20 million and and you should rather go to the I mean it's an estimation yet we are still working out the detail as you know it's customary uh you have 12 months to do it we do just quick as possible but it needs to do the full calculation so you should rather go to the higher side of that and if you add that to the normal also they deduct that from the normal growth you're back to the high Hi teens, higher teens, and then you have the deferred revenue effect that is impacting the first 12 months. And of course, we are back then to normal in the growth. So I think that your contribution of 70 million is definitely too low for what we're expecting. It needs to be higher than that. And that's why you need to go to the expected growth, take off the mid to higher 20s deferred revenue haircut, and then you are clearly above 80 million, I would say. and that's to say depending a little bit how much deferred revenue haircut we have but there's no change whatsoever in the very strong growth in HDSS.

Got it, I appreciate the detail. Can I throw one last one in? I guess from an adjusted EPS perspective which excludes the PPA effects, do you have any updated view on how you think about kind of accretion dilution particularly for 2027 at this stage or not so much?

Yeah, well, you have two things in the EPS calculation following the ACSS acquisition. It's PPA, as you say, but it's mainly also the non-controlling interest. So you know that the EPS is only calculated on our shareholdings. And that's, of course, we need to deduct the 28% approximately that's held now by Toma Bravo. So that's, so to say, the bigger impact on the EPS calculation. So what we see, including the PPA and the non-controlling interest factor, we see that 2026, as I said, that will not be accretive. 2027 will be more or less flat, and 2028 definitely will be accretive. So it's turning somewhere, definitely in 2028. If we are really good, it can be in 2027, depending a little bit also on the PPAs, et cetera. but in general it's a very strong deal and that's why it's equated very early so it's 27-28 depending on really where it's happened. We are a bit conservative, say it will definitely be in 2028, it will flatten 2027. If we were then to take out the PPA effects, then you are of course quicker in the equations, then you are definitely in 2027 but I think you should also really be mindful of the non-controlling and interest there. Maybe just to give you a little bit of color on the PPA as well as we are still doing that depending on of course as you know how we allocate the consideration to the different asset classes that we have acquired and you know ATSS has a fantastic strong customer base and technologies that will be the main areas and those are to say in those categories we have rather longer amortization periods right and that's we are now in the details of how really to to allocate that but that's also how you should be thinking about the amortization on the PPA got it thanks yeah all in is a strong deal our next question comes from Alice Jennings Barclays please go ahead hi good afternoon uh thank you for taking my questions I've just got a couple if that's all right

So the first one is just on the guidance. So it implies a bit of a deceleration in growth in H2, which is as expected, I think from 12 to 14%. And I'm just wondering what would need to happen in order to reach kind of the upper or the lower end of that range. And then also as a bit of a follow up, what are your expectations in terms of each division for the second half? I know you mentioned mid single digit for media, but yeah, some comments on the other segments would be useful. And then just my second question is about investment and what your priorities are for investment in the second half and whether there's been any changes to your planned investment based off of the impact that you saw on margins in the second quarter.

Thanks. So on the guidance, clearly we had a very strong H1 with 16% revenue growth at constant currency. We are therefore highly confident as of today that we will reach our guidance, which is between 14 and 16 percent. So obviously we are prudent. As you know, also the Nemetschek group, you know, DNA, we are sometimes also quite conservative and we want to make sure that, you know, with all the macro political environment that we have currently, In terms of any energy crisis and others and macro political aspects, we want to be prudent. So that's why we confirm our guidance. But obviously, you know, we are very confident, you know, that we can reach this guidance and probably in a strong way. But of course, we need to see now how Q3 will evolve and also Q4. But yes, so very comfortable view for the moment.

And if you look, if I take them to go to look into the guidance on the segment, we haven't changed our guidance on any other on any other segment than media is the only one that we have taken down slightly. Of course, we see a slightly higher growth. You see that that design and build, especially build is performing well. So that's why I would say to come to the higher end, We should of course perform very strongly in all other segments and maybe also a little bit stronger in media but that's the same as Yves said it's more on the realistic side. I think also in the guidance that we have had and seen I think what we should also always consider that in the second half of the year whilst build remains extremely strong as you saw now also in the first half of the year compared due to the comparables that we had in the prior year with Gokhanov's contribution, but also with the aftermath of the Bluebeam transition into a fully subscription model, we have a plan, so to say, a slightly lower growth in the second half of the year for build, but that's, so to say, in line with our expectation. So that's why we have confirmed all our other segments and then, so to say, maybe towards the higher end here and there, and media with mid-signal digit in the second half. So our priorities and investments in the second half, we haven't changed our priorities and investment. Of course, we are very strongly invested into our products, into our AI additions in order to continue to serve this market and our customers in line with their expectations and needs, of course, as well as possible. We are continuing also to invest into interesting early-stage ventures, etc. We of course also continue to screen the market for M&A and ad-like, so our investment priorities have not changed.

And again, just to comment also on your point on the EBITDA margin, you know, purely organically, if you look at our EBITDA margin as we already indicated, excluding the M&A costs, who will be at the upper end of the range, close to the 33%, excluding M&A.

Okay, great. Thank you very much.

Our next question comes from Nicholas David, AutoBHF. Please go ahead.

Yes. Good afternoon, Yves and Louise. Thank you for taking my questions. I have three, actually. The first one is still on the guidance. Can you elaborate a little bit on your assumptions regarding the multi-year deals you expect in the design segment for H2 and maybe also for 2027, what kind of lending you expect there? My second question is on Germany, you are posting again a nice healthy growth of 14% in H1 after the rebound of H2 last year. In H2 last year, You flagged a nice win regarding the internationalization of Bluebeam as a tailwind for Germany, notably. Is it still the case, or did you benefit now more from also recovering the design segment? And Nicolas would be helpful there. And the last topic is regarding the Forex transactional negative impact of Q2. I failed to see As a region currency we're talking about because I tried to see a currency which has been quite weak in Q2. USD has been weak for a while. So if it's USD, can you elaborate for the reason of the timing for doing it now?

Maybe I'd start with the last one, with the FX impact. So what we have there it's as we have said as well it's due to the it's a transactional effect it's not to say just converting the one of our group companies balance sheet into our euro balance sheet it is the transactional effect of our one of our group companies and that company is having its own balance sheet in hungarian foreign and holding assets in euro and was actually not Any currency getting weaker, it was, as you know, after the elections in Hungary in April, the for rent appreciated very, very strongly in Q2. This is an extraordinary effect. So it's not about one currency weakening. It's really about this very strong and all of a sudden strengthening in the for rent. And that's, of course, that revaluation effect hits that group company because the group company Health holds the assets liabilities in euros have their own functional currency in for rent and that's why it changes and when we convert it and this if it is too difficult please ask offers we will be able to to give more details if you want that's the effect we see in the pnl just to give you a little bit more detail on it when we then convert that hungarian balance sheet into our consolidated euro balance sheet you can say well then then you're there right your your net effects off You do, so you don't really have the, from a full financial impact, you don't incur financial loss to the group, but you take that other conversion effect into the other comprehensive income through the equity, and it's non-realized ethics gains, so whilst we showed the one effect, the transactional effect in the P&L coming from our group company, we have the There's a countering effect of that non-realized FX loss and gain in our equity. So for the whole group, it's not a loss in financial contribution, but in the P&L, you have this transactional effect. So that's why it's a strongly extraordinary effect, and it's driven by the Hungarian for rent appreciation. And you can see now that it's not weakening again. It's still at an elevated level versus what it was.

but now it's it's coming back so to say coming back down again versus the euro but that is the reason behind I hope that was was a little bit more detail that that's understandable yeah that makes sense thank you then regarding Germany clearly we had a good momentum in the market first of all we can see that the momentum is more positive digital permitting is increasing. Now, I would not say that the residential market is booming yet, but clearly there is a more positive momentum in the market, which is starting to be translated also by better performance also in design. So design had a strong performance in Germany in H1 and in Q2. Also, thanks to the move to subscription from some of the existing maintenance customers, but also with new seats and new logos. And then, yes, clearly Bluebeam has very strong growth in Europe, in Q2, especially in Germany. So overall, a positive impact in the market for both, coming mainly both from Bluebeam and from all design brands.

Then let's conclude with your first question. That was the question of multi-year impact in our guidance for the second half of the year. We don't assume neither headwinds or tailwinds from that. We approximately assume the same level in the second half as we had in the first half. As you know, sometimes it's a little bit different to hit the right quarter because it's depending on which customer groups really takes up a multi-year contract versus the normal contract. So you shouldn't expect any additional effects out of that in the second half. That's at least what we have assumed in the guidance. And I think it's important to reiterate, though, that we are now in the second year of the use of multi-year contracts, and you know how the revenue recognition are for those. So if you look at really the impact of multi-year contracts in this year, in 2026, we actually have a headwind from that if you compare 2025 and 2026. So if we would have only done yearly contracts in 2025 and 2026, We would actually have had a higher growth in the design segment in 2026 because then that revenue that was recognized already in 2025, that would have then come as yearly contracts this year. So that proposed effect that we have in 2025 would have come in 2026. This is just accounting metrics, right? So it is, of course, if we would have only yearly contracts in this year, then, of course, the revenue contribution would have been lower. But I think it's important always to look at the full circle as we are using the three-year contracts to make sure that our customers can convert and go into, in a safe mode, into the subscription transformation, which we know that especially Some of the European countries, but also others. Some of our clients really wants to have this planning security for the three years. And that's why we need to look at 2025 and 2026. But to answer your questions clearly, we are not expecting any additional, any higher or lower effects. We are expecting approximately the same level in the second half as we did in the first half.

That's perfect. Thank you for these answers.

Our next question comes from Naiso Nining from Burenburg. Please go ahead.

Hi, thank you. Thank you for squeezing me in. In the interest of time, maybe I'll just keep it to one. I was wondering if you could maybe share how you were thinking about monetization planning for the AI features outside of Bluebeam. Obviously, within Bluebeam, we know there is a premium package of Bluebeam Max. But I've noticed that when you've introduced I think also in ALPLAN as well. So it will be great to know more about how you're planning to monetize features outside of Bluebeam and the rest of the organization. Thank you.

So very clearly here, as you may have seen also, for example, at ALPLAN, we have the Steel Genie solution, which we are pricing mainly as a new package. and it's still under subscription but at a big premium. So the same philosophy that what we are doing with Boobin Max. And you will see us doing that still this year mainly for all our rollout of our different Max features. So you will see without disclosing too much, you know, also an Alpen Max package but other Max packages, et cetera. And the monetization will be an uplift growing our average revenue by user by having much bigger premium subscription package still for these AI packages. And then of course, over time, we will bring more consumption model where then the pricing will be then a mix of both licensing plus tokens. But on the token side, we are for the moment not planning to sell tokens standalone. So it will be always part of a value-added package where we may include also some tokens in case we sell also tokens. But for the moment, as you know, with Ruby Max, all users, all customers, it is for them to have a partnership or a relationship with some of the LLM vendors. So for example, they need to have a Cloud Pro or whatever Now of course we have NCP integration going on for all our different product lines and of course we are now embedding more and more also additional AI features in our more basic packages and here we're not necessarily pricing that separately but we want to make sure that we have more and more adoption of our AI features. You know really depending now on On the customer segment, but also the customer size, we still have a big variation of feedback from our customers. The great news is that all customers are adopting much more AI today than it was a year ago, of course, but that's the case for everyone, including, I assume, you on the phone. But the thing is, if you take, for example, we did a small study recently with architecture firms in Western markets, so North America and in Europe. And around 70% of the people responding declared that they do not trust yet fully the output coming from AI in general. So there is still some work to be done. The good thing is that there is a trusted relationship between our fan base and us, so they believe and strongly in the product that they use on a daily basis, if it is Archicad or Alplan or Vectorworks or, you know, in structural engineering where they are even more conservative, Risa or SIA, Frilo, et cetera. And this is why, you know, on our side, it is very important that, you know, the intelligence that we bring to our products tend to the Nemetschek intelligence layer are bringing strong reliability. And therefore, it is key that We have trusted and strong data that you know, of course, is key to our success. But overall, I would say that it is going the right direction. But again, we are in a highly conservative market in ACO, in construction, and also in a very SMB market. So they are probably more, not probably, they are in general more conservative and more prudent than larger enterprise So this is why also we want to make sure that they are not afraid on the pricing side and in term of monetization for the next few months and couple of quarters and more it will be still you know subscription based so that they have clear understanding and also they can forecast the upcoming costs that they have using our tool and but they want also prediction that like all of us we want to have some prediction on our costs and that's why subscription licensing based type of pricing is still the model that you will see from us for the short term. Mid-term we may evolve with something more hybrid but first we want to make sure that we have strong adoption.

And also maybe just to add on that when we do that and when we go to that value added consumption based hybrid model if we were to go that It's also important that the ACO intelligence and the harness and the knowledge graph really lays with what we offer. And that is also how we comprise in the value addition. And we also can link then the routing to which LLM to use for which kind of workflows, et cetera, which also, of course, impacts the cost efficiency for our users, also for the use of LLM. So that's part of that kind of consumption-based package is not just to say to, Thank you very much. That's very helpful. Our next question comes from Joseph George from JP Morgan. Please go ahead.

Yes, hi guys, good afternoon and thanks for taking my question. Yeah, just one for me please. I guess if we fast forward maybe one year, once HCSS is fully integrated, What does the organic growth outlook for the build division then look like? I guess I'm trying to ask, to what extent does the integration of HCSS mean that the build division is maybe now more profitable, but perhaps growing slightly slower on an underlying basis? Or do you think that with HCSS integrated, the build division can still grow organically at 20% plus through the midterm? Thanks.

Yes, that's currently our view that in a year from now we should be still, you know, in around 20% organic. I mean, then it would be the new organic growth including HCSS because HCSS would be fully integrated and at constant currency. Of course, the base is getting higher, but we should hold around 20%. Okay, great. Thank you. And that's because Bluebeam will be higher than 20%. Maybe, you know, HSS in the higher teens. So, you know.

Cool. Very clear. Thank you.

Our next question comes from Victor Cheng, Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Hi, thanks for taking my questions. Maybe two from my side. First of all, can you maybe talk a bit about HTSS growth in H1 this year? I'm just conscious of what George asked earlier as well. Thinking about H2 contribution, obviously you said 600 bibs and walk us through the bridge, but how are revenues generally split between H1 and H2 for HTSS as well? And then second question, maybe on design, Can you give us an update exactly where you are with subscription transition across brands and thinking about as we kind of go further with migration, should we expect pricing strength coming back in 2027 and maybe put differently, are you seeing already higher growth from brands further into the transition? Thank you.

Thanks, Victor. So maybe to start with the design question. So today, if you look at the design division, we have around 65% of our total revenue in design, which is subscription by the end of Q2. We are planning to be around 70% by the end of the year. And we are planning to be around 90% plus subscription by the end of 2027. Now, if you look at where we are per brand, clearly Alplan and Grastysoft are still in the middle of the move to subscription for their legacy customer base. So of course, when you move to subscription, you have a headwind. Even though you may say that, yes, multi-year is also bringing some tailwind, but the headwind is clearly there. And if you look at Vectorworks, yes, they started Thank you very much. Our total design revenue will be subscription by the end of next year. So yeah, so 2027 will be still a headwind year for subscription and design. So the tailwind will probably more come after that in 2028 and slightly beyond. But 2027 will be still a challenging year. Thank you very much for your time.

product suites or features, adding, enhancing our current authoring models, design suites and steel genies and the like that you see that will convert more and more into a suite of products. And that's why you also have in the already converted subscriptions, so to say, then you, of course, also have a greater flexibility also to increase the average revenue, even if you don't per se increase prices very strongly. I think the pricing policy is such without adding features and functionality, Thank you very much. I think to come to the HCSS growth while we see the first half of the year there's no major cyclicality in the HCSS business so that was a strong high teens in the first half and that's what you should generally expect I think you should not forget though and that's very important the PPA the deferred revenue effects that we will have off over the first 12 months as you know those will not be linear those will be front-loaded so they will have a higher impact on the first six months It's nothing we can really steer. It's due to the accounting principles under RFRS. And that's why you should not assume a linear one. You should contribute, like we also did for HSS, a stronger contribution in the first half years and then less towards the second half. And then in a year from now, we are out of that and we cease to say that, coming back to what we just said, strong high teams and then combined with our very strong built segment as we have it already now. in the 20s plus and then you come to that very strong growth as we just alluded to.

Thank you.

The next question comes from Michael Biest, UBS. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Good afternoon. Yves, you bought a second reseller this quarter focused on Vectorworks in Germany and Switzerland. You're paying over 50 million euros and it only looks like headcount increased by 180 quarter on quarter. and at a group level you only make 200 million in sales in Germany. Can you explain how you came to that price and what incremental revenues ComputerWorks brings? Louise, the cash paid was 8 million less than the price you agreed and to the Australian reseller in Q2 it was 5 million less and it suggests that you owe the resellers money because neither of them had any positive working capital. In fact, the Australian reseller had a negative 2.5 million Can you explain why the cash paid is less than the price in the books? And I think I noticed this happened a couple of years ago when you bought a French reseller. And then I've got another question. Thank you.

Sure. So regarding Vectorworks resellers, this is for the Swiss and German market. It is something that we have done As some of our resellers, and this is something which happened also in the past, you know, there is generation shift with some of the resellers and we have to therefore look at clearly continuity. Obviously, most of these reseller and businesses are already in an agent move. So which means that when we do such acquisition, it doesn't have really an impact on revenue or when it does, It's very, very, very low. So there is no really strong revenue contribution. And how we make the calculation. So this is mainly linked to the revenue that they generate. And it is, you know, depending on what also they bring as add on because some of these resellers also did some localization of the product. So they have also some IP. So we are also buying some of the IP around the products, not only for purely the localization, but also the IP, which are add-on solutions. And here's a good thing with ComputerWorks is that they had really strong add-on products and features and solutions that they were selling on top of Vectorworks. And this is what we are also clearly buying there. And more or less, it is around one time revenue in terms of multiple.

Yeah, and coming to what we really pay for in this, I mean, the gross purchase price that we generally pay for, that's of course the very strong customer relationships that have been built over years, acquired goodwill, so to say, which are other assets as well, and also the liabilities, that is also deferred revenue, et cetera, as they're already on such a model, but it's also cash. So yes, in generally, that's the normal purchase price formula, So to say, to do a deduction of cash from what we actually paid. So these resellers do not really have a significantly high cash balance. That's not what we have. It's just a normal price allocation formula, what we pay. But what we pay for really, it's very much in line with what I said as well for the customer relationships and also the The revenue, the expertise they have, and also we take over the people and the standing they have built up.

Just to follow up, Computerworks, the person who sold you that business is still in business as a reseller. So they just sold you the Vectorworks reseller in the countries. And Louise, there is zero net assets in Computerworks. So whatever the cash and the debtors and the liabilities, they're zero. Those are your numbers. And for central innovation it was minus two and a half million. So you took on the liability to the reseller for two and a half million.

So I think coming back to that computer first is still active. So that was, I don't want to go into way too much transactional details here on the call, but in general, so what happened there, there were different businesses and they were split out. So we took over all the business that related to everything they have done around the Nemetschek Group. and there were some other businesses that we have done. There have been legal splits there in different entities, et cetera. So while there are still business pursued, it has nothing to do with the business of the Nemetschek Group and that's something I cannot comment on because that's due to the private seller. So that's the structure. So everything we bought out, they are not continuing as a reseller with everything and everything they built up was in terms of as Yves contributed to before as well so everything they built up about expertise into our segment is something that we took out and there was a smaller portion that they still have that has nothing to do with that business it just happened to be in in the same legal entity that was was taken out so uh that is that i think that's the transaction structure which is very important to understand so it's not that they're continuing to and they don't have no rights to do that either Any longer, but that's also not that was not the reason. So it's just that they have some completely different systems that they have.

A separate question, Louise, just on multi-year deals, but this is in design, not in build. If I go to the website of CDW, Insight and FHI, they're all offering three year subscription deals paid up front for Bluebeam in the US and Canada. How long has that been going on? And what proportion of Bluebeam deals come from three-year subscriptions and is this related to the 27 million in long-term deferred revenue on the balance sheet or what caused that long-term deferred revenue?

Yeah, so in Bluebeam we don't use three, we didn't use the three years contract throughout the subscription. We had a completed, we have a full subscription transitioning within one and a half years more or less as we had and concluded that already. We didn't use three-year contracts there. We don't per se use multi-year contracts except for large enterprise deals and also governmental deals, etc. And that's something that we have always used and will always do. That's just a very small part of the portion that is linked to these large enterprise deals or and governmental clients. And this is what you are referring to is exactly that kind of structure.

I can go to Insight's website now and buy a subscription for $1,400 for three years of Bluebeam Core. And that's me. I'm not an enterprise or a government entity.

So what this reseller is targeting is really this kind of client. So we will check on the website. That is not how that is sold. And this reseller is focused on that. and that's the background around that. So the model for Bluebeam is not the 3A contracts and that is also not what is offered. And that's also, as we always say, we have a smaller portion in the group in general, but that's not contributing to a larger portion of the Bluebeam growth. And as I said, that's focused resellers, and I'm happy to come back to you regarding the webpage, that is not what is offered, so to say, in general to the clients, that what I just said is the customer type that is targeting with us.

And just to make it clear on Bluebeam, If you take the total Bluebeam revenue, we have some large enterprise customers too, and in some cases we have ELA's and with these enterprise license agreements, there could be also in some cases, of course, multi-year deals. But all ELA's and potential three-year deals that we may have from some customers, it represents less than 1% of the total revenue of Bluebeam. Less than 1%. Understood.

Thank you.

and I think it's very clear and I think that's very important also to underline that we have no interest in general in multi-year contracts right that's not the subscription business model and that's not what we are interested in as we have said all the time we use that in order for our customer base we are very very keen on meeting our customer base where they are and that's also the planning security and there are always and there will always be so to say a certain group of clients that will need this but this is not what is offered offered actively and that's not in our interest as they going forward in the subscription model. That's not the typical contract base that we will have or see or offer.

But is this the cause of the long-term deferred revenues of 27 million?

The long-term deferred revenue for Bluebeam is due to SSA coming out of this kind of governmental business deals. But you were also talking about what can be offered and bought today. To say what is for the long-term deferred revenue for Bluebeam, what you can see that is coming but say this existing contract that did not convert into subscription that is still SSA because it's due for more governmental business.

Is the 27 all Bluebeam or is there some build in there?

What I just referred to was build. Of course, Bluebeam is built and has a smaller effect out of design in there as well, but that's the effect of build.

The design products are sold on three-year deals with cash paid all in advance as well then? Because that's what I can see on the website for Bluebeam. It's three years paid in cash all in advance.

No, in general, there's also, if there are multi-year contracts, they are paid on a yearly basis. That's the structure. Then you have some governmental contracts as well, that you know that you have completely different conditions, and that's a one-off deal more or less, as they are very different deals than the rest. There are some contracts that have been paid upfront, but that's not the general model. The general model is that the multi-year contracts are paid on a yearly basis.

Okay, thank you very much.

Our next question comes from Ben Castillo, BNB Paribas. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon, thanks for having me on here.

Just two. One on Bluebeam.

Can you just talk about maybe the opportunity in penetrating your existing Bluebeam customer base with Bluebeam Max? What could you achieve here over the midterm in terms of upsell? And on the pricing part, you mentioned the introductory pricing of Bluebeam Max. Just curious what the customer feedback has been specifically on that sort of price uplift versus the value uplift that they perceive. How's your confidence there on potentially raising prices a little bit further out? Thank you.

Look, I think on pricing, it's too early to say. I mean, we really roll out Gubi Max now for two months. I think we will know exactly the price leverage also we have When it will be the time for renewals. You know, all customers are very price sensitive, especially when you look at the long tail of small medium customers. The 590 US dollar per user annually introduction price, you know, yes, could potentially be increased. But now we need to see the reaction of the customers. And of course, for that, we need also to bring and more and more over time additional features which we are doing. And we will see how we may potentially increase such price or directly jump maybe to a consumption-based pricing. So for the moment, we did not communicate on that, but also we have different scenario in place in our planning. And it will also depend on how the adoption of LUIMax evolve over time and also The feedback of our user base which is going to evolve over time because again you know from all the current Bluebeam Max customers that we have we have very strong early adopters and you know they will not have the same feedback than you know maybe an average Bluebeam users so we need to make sure that we have also feedback from these or more feedback from these average Bluebeam users and not the strong Adopters and then we will see. So too early to say.

Understood. Okay. Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Stefanie Zimmermann for closing remarks.

Thanks everyone for attending. We are looking forward to catching up with you next quarter. If you have any follow-up questions, so please do not hesitate to contact us.

Patrick and myself we are available and so let's conclude the call for today thanks again for joining ladies and gentlemen the conference is now over thank you for choosing chorus call and thank you for participating in the conference you may now disconnect your lines goodbye