Robinsons Retail Holdings, Inc.

Good afternoon, everybody. Thank you for joining us to review our company's unaudited results for the full year of 2023. Gina Lipari, the company's investor relations officer. The participants from our company for this call are our president and CEO, Ms. Rubina Gokin-Oyete, our COO, Sandy Paul, our CFO, Mylene Casiban, the Group General Manager of Robinson Supermarket and No Brand, Christine Torres, the Group General Manager of the Drugstore Segment, Joanne Arceo, the Group General Manager of Robinson's Department Store and Toys, Simina Chua, the Group General Manager of DIY and Pets, Ben Sobono, The group manager of Uncle Jam's, Donald Yoncho. The group general manager of our appliance business, Joey Santos. This presentation will cover the company's financial performance for the full year of 2023, an update on our store network, and the company's recent developments. Q&A session will follow after the presentation. As a reminder for the Q&A session, Kindly use the raise hand function if you would like to ask your questions live, or please use the Q&A function on your Zoom dashboard to type in your questions. Kindly limit your questions to a maximum of three during follow-up so we can accommodate as many participants as possible. You may key back in into the call or into the Q&A for additional questions. With that, I will turn it over to our president, Ms. Hughes. Good afternoon. Here are the highlights of our results for the full year 2023. Consolidated net sales grew by 7.4% to 192.1 million. Blended same-store sales growth of 3.9%. Gross profit increased by 7.9% to 45.6 million. EBIT of 8.9 billion, up by 2.3%. Core net earnings were slightly higher by 0.6% to 5.6 billion. Net income to parent declined by 29.5% to 4.1 billion. Capital expenditures of 4.2 billion. Concluded net sales for the fourth quarter came in at 53.9 billion, up by 4.2%. Lended SSSG continued to normalize in the fourth quarter due to the impact of inflation and a high base in the previous year. Full-year net sales reached 192.1 billion, higher by 7.4%, with SSS fees at 3.5%. The business units that posted net average, above-average net sales growth for the year were drugstores and department stores. This is a more detailed picture of our P&L for the full year. Gross margin expanded by 11% to 23.8% on better product assortment and increased vendor support. Even gross by 2.3% to 8.9 billion as revenue growth and gross margin expanded were offset by higher OPEX from new stores. Net income to parent declined by 29.5% to 4.1 billion. The decline is mainly due to the following. One, Reversal of Forex gains worth 357 million in 2022 to a 65 million loss in 2023 due to the appreciation of the TESO. And two, reversal of the equitized earnings in 2022 amounting to positive 14 million to a 708 million loss in 2023 with the derecognition of Robinson's Pax net income under equitized earnings following the merger with BPI, and three, losses from startup investments. Meanwhile, we note that our investment in BPI yielded a net positive carry in 2023, significantly better than earlier expected of the relative borrowing related to the purchase of BPI shares. Our core earnings, which exclude forex, interest income from bonds, losses from associates, Interest expense and dividends related to the BPI shares came in at 5.6 billion, up by 0.6%. In terms of contribution, the Staples businesses, namely supermarkets, drugstores, and convenience stores, accounted for 77% of total sales and 79% of total bid draw in 2023. Meanwhile, our discretionary formats mainly department stores, DIY stores, and specialty stores, comprised 23% of total sales and 21% of total rebate value. Our store count in the Philippines stood at 2,393 as of December 31, 2023, composed of 349 supermarkets, 1,054 drugstores, 50 department stores, 230 DIY stores, 408 convenience stores, and 302 specialty stores. We also have 2,127 franchise stores of QGP. In 2023, we added 84 net new stores, but most of the new stores came from supermarkets and drugstores. Now, Christine Flores, Group GM of Robinhood Supermarket, will discuss the supermarket segment. Good afternoon. Supermarket net sales increased by 7.4% in 2023, $203.6 billion driven by new stores and full-year sales for sales growth of 3.2%, which benefited from the double-digit growth in transaction counts. We saw a 30 bps improvement in new gross GPM in Q4 2023 to 21.7% due to higher sales of important products and increased vendor support. This allowed our full-year GPM to settle at 21.7% flat year-on-year. Excluding the impact of gross salary, which now accounts for almost 10% of supermarket sales, segment gross margin will have increased by 40 bps in 2023. EBITDA rose by 10.3% to 9.4 billion, supported by resilient top-line growth and efficient cost management. Now I turn you over to Joanne for the drugstore segment. Hi, good afternoon. Drugstore net sales rose by 30.2% in 2023. We created 3.4 billion in robust SSSG and incremental sales from new stores. Limited SSSG of South Star Drug and Rose Pharmacy came in at 7.1% for the whole year. Growth was driven by sustained demand for prescription drugs, particularly maintenance medications, while OPC cough and bone medicines and antihistamines also performed well. Growth margin expanded by 70 pips to 21% in 2023, which we attribute to the increased penetration of house rags and better category mix. Strong top-line growth augmented by 3 p.m. expansion allowed Vivenda to grow by 13.1% to 3 billion in 2023, in line with the increase in net sales. And I'll turn it over to Selena for the department store segment.

Net sales of the department store segment grew by 8.2% in 2023 to 16.3 billion. Same-store sales normalized to 7%. Categories related to back to school, travel, and sports drove the top line. Gross margin improved by 40 bps to 30.6% due to higher mix of higher margin categories. EBITDA was flattish in 2023, ending the year at 1.3 billion. Healthy top line trends coupled with gross margin improvements were offset by higher OPEX from rent, manpower, and utilities. Let me turn you over now to Ted for the DIY segment.

The DIY segment posted slightly lower top-line trends in 2022. Intense competition and a decline in demand for pandemic items like home and kitchen products affected revenue. Competition in the dog food segment, one of our top categories, was also intensified with more players entering the market in recent years. Excluding pet food sales, DIY segment-led sales would have increased by 5.5% in 2023. Gross margin was slightly down from 31.1% in 2022 to 30.8% in 2023 due to markdowns in the kitchen categories. EBITDA declined by 20% to 1.2 million pesos in 2023 due to lower SSSG and higher impacts from rent, utilities, and manpower. I turn you over to Donna of Uncle John's.

Good afternoon. Uncle John's was able to post 5.6% same-store sales growth and 4.4% growth in net sales for $6.3 billion in 2023. We attribute this to the strong performance of our CDB-located branches and resilient demand for our RTE categories. The continued growth of our higher-margin RTE business led to God's Margin plus Other Income expanding promptly. 38.2% in 2022 to 38.5% in 2023. EBITDA recovered by 16.8% to 161 million in the fourth quarter of 2023 due to an improvement in sales mix while we were able to generate cost savings from rent and repairs and maintenance. For the full year, the decline in the segments EBITDA narrowed to minus 2% to 569 million. I turn it over now to Mr. Joey.

Good afternoon. The specialty segments revenues increased by 3.5% to 15.2 billion in 2023, with full-year SSSG of 2.4%. Toys and pet retail delivered double-digit revenue growth in 2023. Revenues of our appliances and electronics business was flat in 2023, as increased out-of-home activities led to lower demand for some of our categories that did well during the pandemic. Full-year gross margin for the specialty segment improved by 20 bps to 26.6% due to increased vendor support, higher DC fees, and changes in product mix. EBITDA declined by 24.7% to 990 million in 2023 due to an increase in OPEX. The next speaker is my name.

Thanks, Julio. Moving on to our working capital, our receivable days, inventory days, and payable days, all of those betting in 2020, as such, our cash cycle was large and changed year-in-year at 13.8%. On our balance sheet, we are in a net deposition of 4.7 billion as of December 2023, with borrowings of 21.4 billion, largely through the acquisition financing of the BKI shares in January last year. As of December 2023, our debt-related to the DPI share purchased amounted to 13.3 billion. In spite of our net debt position, our balance sheet remains strong with a net debt-to-equity ratio of only 0.06. ROE and ROE in the training 12-month basis came in at 2.8% and 5.6% respectively in 2023. These are lower than the figures in 2020 due to the decline in net income to parents. Organic TPEX for all segments in 2023 is at 4.2 billion. About 61% of the TPEX budget in 2023, TPEX 10 went to the supermarket business, 10% for drug stores, 9% for department stores, 8% each for DIY and special, and 4% for CVS. Moving on to our balance sheet, we are in a net deposition of 4.7 billion.

Yeah, totally.

Now, I turn it over to Scott.

Thank you, Maylene. Now, I'm going to talk to you on some recent corporate developments. On January 1, 2014, the murder between DPI and Moments was banned, which the former as a surviving entity officially took place. We now effectively own 6.5% of DPI, and we will be entitled to a board seat in the bank. With a merger, DPI should be able to provide our suppliers with more financial skills to service our needs. We also expect to see more promotional tie-ups, such as DPI credit cards, for example. We opened our 400-drug-prose pharmacy at New Star Cebu last January 29, marking not only our efforts in continuous growth and expansion, but also underscoring our commitment to providing accessible medical communities nationwide. We now have 651 South Star Jod, 403 Rose Pharmacy stores, and 2,127 franchise PGP stores. In collaboration with the DFI Retail Group, we formally launched the official entry of the Meadows brand in the Philippines at Shopwise in Paranaque, Sipila, December. Meadows is DFI Retail's multi-awarded private label brands of high-quality food and drinks, home and kitchen essentials, and health and beauty products sourced from all over the world and sold at great value for money. We marked a significant milestone as we celebrated our 10th anniversary as a publicly listed company last November 13, 2023. We celebrated the occasion with the bell-ringing ceremony at the Philippine Stock Exchange on November 23, with the directors and officers of PSE and RH. We are currently a constituent of the PSE Mid-Cap Index and the PSE Dividend Yield Index. We completed our first-ever ESG external assurance in 2023, covering 2022 data, reflecting our dedication to sustainability, corporate responsibility, and transparent business practices. Our external assurers, FGB and company, follow the reviewed data, policies, and procedures to ensure alignment with global ESG standards. We are also wrapping up preparations for our next assurance. Next. We are happy to announce the following appointments of key officers. In January, Stephen Yap has been appointed as Head of Innovation. Prior to his new assignment, Stephen was RHI's Chief Information Officer for eight years. Succeeding Stephen, a CIO is Jose Maria Catanjal. John has been with RHI for seven years. He was ADT for Project Management and SAP Delivery Head in 2018 and was appointed Deputy CIO in 2022. Effective February, Doan Arceo has been appointed Group General Manager for our drugstore segment, comprised of South Star Drug, Rose Pharmacy, and TGP. She was appointed GM of TGP in June 2022, and will continue to lead TGP to her role as Group GM. Michael So has been appointed General Manager of Rose Pharmacy, effective January this year, Mike was Group Operations Manager for Robeson Supermarket in Visayas and Mindanao before he was appointed Deputy GM for Rose Pharmacy in June 2021. Donna Leoncio has also been appointed as General Manager of Uncle John's, effective February. Donna has been ADP for merchandising of our convenience store segment since 2011. And finally, Christine Sanchez has been appointed Deputy General Manager of Toys R Us, also appointed in February. Tim has been with Robinson's Retail for 21 years. He was ABP for merchandising of Robinson's Department Store in 2011 and was appointed ABP for merchandising of Toys R Us in 2019. Moving to our guidance for 2024, we are looking at the next door addition of 100 to 120. Meanwhile, we are aiming for a blended SSSG of 3% to 5%. For margins, we are guiding for 10 to 20 bits across GPM expansion. This takes into account the impact of Rosari. And finally, we are earmarking 4 billion to 6 billion for organic capital expenditures. This ends our presentation for the full year results. We will now open the breakout floor with Q&A.

Thank you.

Good afternoon.

So we will prioritize the questions sent via the Zoom Q&A facility. But if you would also like to ask your questions live, you can do so using the raise hand function. If you prefer this option, please do not forget to introduce yourself and identify the company that you are working for before you ask your question. The first question is from Carissa Magpayo of Macquarie. The first one is net store additions appeared to have fallen short of guidance for 2023 of 120 to 160. So what's the reason for this?

I mean shortfall is coming from the ground serves and CVS. CVS mainly because we closed the number of funding stores, and then for the drugstores, a number of the stores actually will slide in first order in the same chance of opening.

All right. And then there is a second question. What is the revenue, sorry, sales contribution of RTE in 2020?

For Uncle John's, the share of business of RTE was at 39%.

Thank you. And then the third question is on specialties. So what led to the year-on-year decline in gross margin in the fourth quarter of 2022?

Just the lower sales on sales mix, especially categories that performed well the previous year due to the pandemic. Right. Thank you.

Next question is from Joyce of CNSA. Can you break down store expansion guidance by format?

Store expansion guidance.

For the food retail including CVS, there'll be a total of 25 to 30 stores. Junk stores will be around 70 to 80. Department store, around 1, new 1. And DIY stores, 5 to 10 stores.

Okay, thank you. And then Joyce, as a follow-up question, any update on your investments such as Nimbigo, OSAVE, Grocery, Beauty MNL, and others?

For beauty, M&L, we have only written off our investment in fourth quarter of last year. For OSAID, sorry, what kind of, what's the kind of updates? Can you please elaborate the question for OSAID? the kind of update you like, some additional investments or what?

Okay. Next set of questions from Stephen of China Bank. Number one, can you share what led to the faster expansion in attributable debt income relative to operating income in the fourth quarter? And the second question is what led to the quarter-on-quarter gross margin decline in the fourth quarter?

Thank you. Thank you.

It's just the timing of the dividends. Yeah, because we received the second semester dividends for BPI in Whitewater.

But the second question would lead to the foreigner on the border and cross-margin decline in the port border.

I think this is for Konso.

Yeah, we'll get back to you on this one. You can see that Carissa Mamubat of Regus Partners is raising her hand. Go ahead, Carissa, we will now unmute you.

Hi, good afternoon. I just wanted to clarify, was it mentioned earlier that the total associate income for Polir was 708 million, is that correct? Yes. If not, what's the correct figure? And if you could just break it down, please, across the various associates, like GoTime, OSAVE, et cetera. That's my first question.

Actually, Tarnisa Barkovic is from GoTime.

Sorry, the bulk of the 708 million is go time. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And then my second question is on, particularly on the 4Q SSSG. So for supermarkets, it's flat, so slow down in the fourth quarter. What's driving that? Like if you could just break it down in terms of maybe traffic and ticket size and any trends that you're seeing going into first quarter, particularly for supermarkets.

Actually, the same-store sales for a supermarket in October and November of 2022 was like around 53% mid-feeds. And then in December, it was around 10%. So it's really coming from a very high base.

Okay, so is it more of a...

smaller tickets or is it still it's driven by transaction count sorry transaction count is down basket size is down okay

Okay, and then I guess my final question is on similarly for drugstores and DIY. If I look at 4Q, how would we break this down? For drugstores, the 8.6, how would we break that down between transaction count and ticket size? And similarly for DIY segment of negative 3 for your fourth quarter? Okay.

Consumption is up 5%.

If you get it, get it up.

Yes, and then for DIY, the negative three.

DIY conception count is slightly down and basket size is slightly up.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, Carissa. Next, Set of questions will be from Nadine of JPMorgan. This is for Supermarket. Can you share more color on the main drivers of deceleration in SSG in fourth quarter? I think this was asked already. Maybe your next question, can you provide your own commentaries regarding competition in the grocery retail segment?

Yeah, well, I think generally, it's, you know, the supermarket segment is, you know, competition is getting very aggressive, particularly coming from the hardest counter operators.

Okay. We got questions from Joyce. I think she supplemented her earlier question. So I think what would be the key drivers of margin expansion for this year? Can you comment on this by division? Thank you.

I think generally for retail, the new category makes increased penetration for important products or events.

And also for our private leading.

Okay, thank you.

That's across the board.

Great. Okay, next is from Dawn. Aside from dividend income, can you please share progress on other synergies slash developments with BPI so far and plans for further developments in the coming years?

I think we have started the design already for the co-branded credit card. And it will be launched soon. And supplier loans for our vendors. And then our IP.

Okay, next set of questions will be from Rainier Yu. Can you share the private label contribution for supermarkets? And are we still seeing trends of down trading, particularly on the smaller formats?

For the private label, this is Tim. For the private label contribution, it's around 6.5%. Down trending, particularly on smaller formats, yes. We are.

Okay, thank you. Next question from Sheng Ong. What is the progress on GoTime, any timeline for breakeven, and whether Robinson's Retail would inject more capital?

For GoTime, based on their plans, they're looking at keeping breakeven in 2025. That's actually one of the fastest progress. In terms of a digital map, I think really even after 30 years of operations. Time Bank is already the major show owner of GoTime. They're already at the positive after five years of operations. And the traction for GoTime is double that of Time Bank in South Africa. In terms of capital injection, I think there will be some this year.

Okay, and then Joyce has follow-up questions. This is related to her earlier questions on our investing companies. So how are they doing in terms of profitability? I think both of them have already been answered, but maybe for the others.

Jose, I think they need to reach a certain scale in terms of number of stores and presentation of private label products to achieve profitability.

Thank you. Nadine of JPMorgan has follow-up questions. Can you please provide more color on what's driving the slower store rollout guidance for 2024 despite slower actual additions in 2023? Which categories will see slower rollout in 2024? And is this because of soft demand or oversaturation of stores in the market or some regulatory backlogs?

I think for us, we just need to be realistic in terms of our short targets. Internally, they have higher targets.

Alright, thank you. And then Kimberly now of BDO Trust has two questions. First one, which investments in particular led to the negative equity and net earnings in fourth quarter? I think this was answered already. This is mostly from GoTime. Our second question is the contribution of grocery sales to supermarket sales increased sequentially in the fourth quarter of 2023? And should we expect this to increase further in 2024?

Yes, it is increasing. Grocery sales contribution is increasing. Their sales is growing at high pins.

All right, thank you. Next question is from Swan Lee. What is Meadows as a percent of supermarket sales? What percent of supermarket sales do you think Meadows can grow to? And what are the margins, gross margins like for Meadows?

We only started to launch Meadows last year, but we already contributed like half a percent of sales, of total supermarket sales. Margins? It's attractive versus normal. No save.

Thank you. Next, from Yong Hwa, could you comment on OSAVE's store count expansion targets?

See? I think they have a very similar model with DALI, where they're opening more than 100-200 stores a year. And it's very, very similar. Business model.

All right. Next, Stephen, again, of ChinaBath. I have a couple of follow-up questions for me. Number one, we noticed that year-on-year consolidated sales expansion have moderated since the first quarter of 2023. What do you attribute this? And do you see this around mid-single-digit sales expansion to hold over the coming quarters? That's his first question.

I think the sales growth in 2023 is largely dependent on the same-story sales growth. Because in 2022, the level is so high, so the growth rate in terms of the total sales is actually like 18. It's largely driven by the same-story sales growth. It's just around 11% growth.

All right. And then Stephen's second question is, can you share your outlook for the industry for 2024, especially between essential and discretionary formats? Thank you.

We can only speak for our business. For the essential formats, I think, you know, we will go back to normal in terms of same-store sales growth between 3% to 5%. Discretionary formats coming from my high base are also looking at a higher same-store sales growth. but high single digit. I'll have to worry myself. High single digit. Sure.

Okay. Next question is from Daphne of Maybank Securities. So what caused the higher effective tax rate in full year 2023 versus full year 2022? And how should we look at FY24 effective tax?

It's just because the losses from assumptions are non-deductible. Hence, the effective tax rate is higher. We should see it lower and normalize in 2020.

Okay, thank you. Next question, from Francis Subido. Hi, how should we expect operating margins to trend in the coming quarters? And what initiatives are being done to improve our margins?

For 2020 to be, the reduction in margin is largely because You know, we were enjoying rental concessions in 2022 and there was none in 2023. So there is a big jump in terms of our OPEX relative to the growth in sales. For 2024, your base is already the same because the rent is at normal levels already. So the OPEX growth should be in line or slightly lower than that increasing sales.

Okay. And Francis Subilo has some follow-up questions. Also, RHI has been hitting all-time lows in share price recently. Any new initiatives being planned to help boost the share price and shareholder value?

One of our programs is the share buyback program. It means supporting our share price since the start of 2019 up to last year. And we already purchased like 6.4 billion pesos from the share buyback program.

Great. Okay, next set of questions would be from Denise Joaquin of Polo Financial. Hi, what portion of interest expense was attributable to financing the WPI share purchase in the fourth quarter and for FY23. Any guidance on target loan repayments that you are looking at for this year?

Yeah, around half would be for the WPI-related loans. We're looking at repayments of around 2 to 3 billion this year.

Thank you. Next, Joyce of CLSA asks some follow-up questions. This is on the DIY segments. What trends are you seeing for DIY? Can you comment on the competitive landscape and consumer behavior for this division?

I think for DIY, we'll be able to bounce back this year. And for the competitive landscape, I think what affects us most is our dog food, which we think that... be able to recover these.

Okay, thank you, Dev. Again, Joyce Ramos has more questions. Are you looking to tap into local manufacturers to roll out private label products as opposed to imported private label brands? What's the thought process for partnering more with imported private labels instead of with local suppliers?

Ask for me.

Well, I guess the plan is to top both, right? Take advantage of what's available locally and, of course, the options to buy from foreign vendors as well.

Next would be from Nadine. How are we reacting to intensifying competition in grocery retail? We had Peergold announcing nationwide price cuts in select SKUs, power promotions shared by retailers and manufacturers.

But we're carefully looking at that as well. We're carefully looking at our prices right now versus market. Then again, I think what's more important for us is we are, in a way, protecting our gross margins. Yeah, so I guess the best option that we're doing right now is to get support from our local vendors. All right.

Thank you. Nadine has another question. How is management thinking about the capital allocation strategy? especially in light of the return and profit run of the portfolio investments, i.e. go time. Are you revisiting your capital allocation decisions? And if yes, can you expand on the company's decision-making dynamics?

In terms of capital allocation, while it will still be spent on profits, I think we are only allotting less than a billion pesos for investments this year.

Okay. The next question is from Daniel Rowe. Do you have any data on market share trends in the fourth quarter of 2023, especially with regards to the supermarket segment? No. Next question would be from Paula. Thank you for the presentation. A couple of questions from me. First one, are the issues faced last year that resulted in delays in store opening still present today? And your second question is, what's the strategy amid more aggressive competition from hard discounters?

I think for store openings, we have practically the same issues year after year. We have to find a building that's ready for lease.

Since we do not own the land and do not build our own buildings, we have to look for buildings that are ready for lease.

that are ready for commercial development, and not just any building that is a building.

It has to have good parking, it has to have a good frontage, it has to service a dense community, and there are other factors in choosing for a good location.

For the strategy amid more aggressive competition, especially from the hard discounters?

Okay, hard discounters do not significantly impact our supermarkets as we cater to different markets.

So while hard discounters may focus on cost-conscious consumers seeking the lowest prices for essential products, our supermarkets actually positions ourselves to attract a broader demographic. So offering a diverse range of products, premium brands, and a more comprehensive shopping experience.

Thank you. Next set of questions, again from Rainier. What is the outlook for the drugstore business in 2024? I think he's referring to SSSG in 2024. We're still expecting the same trends.

Yes, we're applying positive figures of outlook this year. We're looking at mid to high single digits for drugstores.

Thank you. Question from Nadine. JP Morgan, grocery contribution is increasing, but it has been diluted to margins. At what point or what needs to happen before it becomes accretive to margins?

Yeah. It's actually diluted to margins, but it's not losing money. It's still very positive for us. But in terms of scale, it actually increased our scale. So we're trying to get additional margins on our supermarket business. That's why if you exclude grocery, our margins actually for supermarket is up 40%.

All right. Next question is from Nathan C. Now, can we ask about Uncle John's? How is the convenience store business, or any expansion plans that you can share.

Okay. For 2024, our plan is to increase store count by about 20 stores. However, one of our real strategies is to update the look of our top 10 stores that are over 10 years old already. So we will have around 30 stores under renovation for 2024.

Okay. Thank you. And then we have another question from Kim Nam of BDO Trust. So what drove the 303 million loss under others below operating income line in the fourth quarter?

My comment is coming from UTM and some other small provisions.

Okay. Next question is from Yi Xiong. Can you elaborate or repeat on the current share buyback program and whether there will be a new program in light of the recent weakness in the share price.

We just announced an additional $1 billion share buyback program. Out of that $1 billion, we already purchased $400 million plus. And we're left with $600 million.

Sure. And then Rainier, any indications of div payments for this year given higher expenses?

We have always been declaring more than, you know, 40% payout. About 40% payout for the cash dividends of our HR. I think at best, we'll be around flat in terms of absolute amount or value for the dividends for this year.

Okay. And then we had some questions from Philip of Philippine Equity Partners. These were emailed earlier. So what is the outstanding balance of the long-term debt used for the purchase of the BPI shares as of December 2023? And what is the term in Tenor?

Okay, it's 13.3 billion.

It's repriced on a quarterly basis at 6.72%.

That will be maturing on 2028. But we can prepay the loan sometime in 2026.

In part two of Philip's set of questions, given the completion of the merger between BPI and Robinson's Bank, can you confirm when will RHI be entitled for a board seat in BPI?

I think we will seek representation, having a 6.5% stake in BPI, we will seek representation for a void-saving BPI. In any case, BPI will make an announcement for a new void member.

Thank you, Lina. Joyce Ramos, OCLSA, has a few more questions. Can you give us an update on BTMNL? How much were the losses for this business?

I think we mentioned last year's fall that a total of 150 million.

Yeah. During the three-year fall.

Okay. So at this point, there are no more questions from the virtual floor. And we can now end this poll. for me. Thank you very much and see you at the next earnings poll.