Tata Steel Ltd 144A

Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Tata Steel earnings call. Please note that this meeting is being recorded. All the attendees' audio and video has been disabled from the backend and will be enabled subsequently. I would now like to hand the conference over to Ms. Samita Shah. Thank you and over to you, ma'am.

Thank you, Shoham. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to this call to discuss our results for the first quarter of FY27. We declared our results yesterday, and I hope you've had a chance to go through the numbers. There's also a presentation which explains more details. To explain, to walk you through the results and answer any questions you may have, we have with us our CEO and Managing Director, Mr. T.V. Narendran. and our ED and CFO, Koushik Chatterjee. They will have shared some opening comments and then we will go into Q&A. Before I hand it over to them, I just want to remind you all that the discussions today will be governed by the Safe Harbor Clause, which is on page two of the presentation. Thank you and over to you, Narendra.

Thank you. Thanks, Amita. And good morning, good afternoon, everyone. So let me share some of my thoughts with you and then hand over to Koushik. So Tata Steel has delivered a resilient performance in Q1 despite the challenging operating environment. The developments in West Asia continue to disrupt the supply chain and the Chinese steel exports of about 9 to 10 million tons a month also has had an impact on international prices. Of course, this has also led to many countries taking actions to protect themselves, which also has a consequence impact on the steel supply chains and on Tata Steel. Performance in some sense, Thank you very much. I would now like to make some comments on our performance in each geography. In India, crude steel production was about 5.76 million tons. This was lower than the previous quarter because we had some shutdown scheduled and a little bit of some operational issues, which are behind us now. In Q4, the strong deliveries also led to an inventory drawdown. And so some of the production went into building up the inventory to optimal levels across a supply chain. And hence, you saw the deliveries were about 5.17 million tons in India in Q1. We were able to offset the impact of lower volumes because of an increase in the realizations to the tune of about 6,000 rupees, 5,990 to be more precise over Q4. And the higher net realizations were partly on the back of improved market prices and partly because of our ability to maximize volume in the chosen segments. So this has helped us deliver an EBITDA margin of 27%, which is higher than the 10-year average. Some of the segmental highlights are what I would like to describe now. The automotive and speciality business delivered best-ever Q1 volumes. It had a 21% year-on-year growth in high-end sales. We also developed cold-rolled ultra-high-tensile steels, DP980, for those of you who understand the technicality of it, for commercial vehicles, and galvanized steel and secondary coatings for passenger vehicles, and tighter trolling speciality steel bars for transmission gears. So these developments further strengthen our position as a preferred partner in the automotive sector. As you know, we have a market share of about 50% in the auto sector. Our well-established brands Tata Tiscone grew volumes 33% year-on-year supported by our extensive distribution network which today covers 97% of India's districts and the Steleum volumes also helped by the Cold Rolling Mill and Kalinga Nagar grew by 34% year-on-year and our digital platforms Asiana and Digica continue to scale with a combined GMV of around 22,200 crores for the quarter which is 61% up year-on-year. We continue to strengthen our presence in the construction solutions business through differentiated offerings that improve the project efficiency. In fact, it's also addressing a trend today that we see that construction workers or workers are not easily available to work at construction sites and hence our move towards construction solutions that we deliver is really helping many of our customers. During the quarter we also commissioned India's first superflex well mesh line at Kathak in Odisha and this is the first of its kind facility that can produce engineer well mesh up to 3.3 meters in width, significantly higher than the industry standard of 2.4. So all these initiatives are basically aligned with what we want to do, go more downstream, go towards more and more Thank you very much. Our efforts to diversify into new end-use segments are also yielding encouraging results, including shipbuilding, where we've got a number of approvals now. Shipbuilding like automotive is an approval-based business, and this has broadened addressable market opportunities for us. And the other area we're looking at is, of course, data centers. We are also strengthening our position in the oil and gas sector through international certifications that enable participation in competitive and ice specification projects. So basically more and more high value approval based businesses as well as emerging consumption sectors like data centers. Our downstream portfolio continues to build momentum with the tubes business and tin plate business delivering the strongest agro-first quarter performance. Our wires business also expanded its market reach through innovative solutions such as a 3D welded mesh for railway applications and Gajamitra high tensile knotted fencing system featuring specially designed tubular structural posts. These are being used in the South by forest departments, particularly where there are elephant corridors. And Colours, the Tata Colours business, which used to be Tata BlueScope earlier, continues to benefit from the infrastructure-led demand supplying roofing and cladding solutions for projects under the Amrit Bharat Station scheme. As you must have heard, the board yesterday has approved the 4.8 million ton expansion at Nilachal Ispat which is central to our strategy of deepening presence in high margin and branded long products and this is the first phase of growth at Nilachal and it will expand the total capacity in Nilachal to about 6.2 million tons. As far as UK is concerned, our delivery stood at 0.5 million tons. We welcome the recent revisions to safeguard measures, including a 51% reduction in tariff-free quotas and higher duties. But there are some categories like galvanized steel, tubular sections, some of the packaging steels, etc., where the current quota allocations are not fully aligned with what we think is fair, because in many cases, the quotas are a significant 70-80% of It used to be higher than the demand now it's brought down but still at a very high level. So we are working with the relevant authorities to provide industry inputs and support a calibrated approach that balances market requirements with the policy intent. In Netherlands the liquid steel production was 1.55 million tons while deliveries were 1.4 million tons. The temporary shutdown of a direct sheet plant has weighed on the operational performance because the direct sheet plant or DSP as we refer to it We have just got the approval to run it for four weeks starting 5th of August and hopefully the data that we generate through that production will help us get the permission to run it beyond that. So I think Q1 was impacted by the shutdown but we hope that in Q2 we are able to address this issue. Finally, as far as West Asia, the developments in West Asia continue to impact energy, freight and some of the raw materials, some of the consumables that we use. We are closely monitoring the situation and taking appropriate action to mitigate the effect of our operations. With this, I hand over to Koushik for his comments. Thanks.

Thank you Naren. Good afternoon to those who have joined in. During the first quarter of financial year 27, the global steel industry continued to navigate a complex and volatile landscape. Geoeconomic shifts, persistent supply chain disruptions and the ongoing developments in West Asia have continued to exert pressure on input costs, energy prices and logistics. Despite these headwinds, Tata Steel has delivered a resilient performance anchored by robust steel realizations, improved product mix that Naren talked about and ongoing cost transformation initiatives. In today's presentation, I will cover firstly the performance for the quarter, second the strategic decisions by the board and thirdly a commentary on the disclosures that you would have seen in the SEBI release. I will begin the consolidated performance provided on slide 25 of the presentation. Consolidated revenues for the quarter stood at about ₹60,794 crores and EBITDA of ₹9,370 crores. On a per tonne basis the Q1 EBITDA improved by about ₹2,400 per tonne year on year and by about ₹1,490 per tonne on a quarter on quarter basis. and is presently tracking close to about Rs 13,000 per tonne consolidated which is effectively a 15% margin. It is important to emphasize that this is after the unplanned cost increases of about 1200 crores on a consolidated basis directly due to the West Asia war. We have witnessed price spikes in energy prices, freight and insurance, natural gas and logistics costs. With alternative sources and mitigation plans, we expect the impact to taper down in the coming quarters. Let us now provide a deeper understanding of the India, UK, Netherlands performance individually. Our India business continues to be our growth engine and continues to be 75% of Tata Steel's total steel production. In quarter one, 27, India EBITDA was higher by 32% year on year to about 9,900 crores. India continues to deliver an industry leading margins. EBITDA margin improved significantly from about 15,907 rupees per ton in quarter four to about 19,162 rupees per ton in quarter one. I think there's an echo out here. You can now put your mics on the mute. Tata Steel's standalone revenues for the quarter stood at Rs 36,897 crores and EBITDA was Rs 9,409 crores which translates to a 26-27% EBITDA margin reflecting a margin improvement of about 95 basis points on a quarter-on-quarter basis. Total revenue was up by about Rs. 9,212 per ton. However, this was partly offset by the rise in costs by about Rs. 6,700 per ton due to lower volumes during the quarter due to annual shutdowns and operational snags which are now mostly resolved. Within costs, material costs were up by about Rs.1330 per ton and conversion costs were up by about Rs.5400 per ton on a quarter and quarter basis. Material costs were up due to higher cooking coal consumption costs and the higher purchase of rebars from Nilachal Ispat and Tata Steel Thailand as we optimize the value chain opportunities in the marketplace. Conversion costs moved higher due to higher I&O royalty related expenses and the adverse impact of lower volumes which will see better coverage through the fixed cost absorption in the coming quarters. Moving to NINL, the first quarter EBITDA performance was strong at about 498 crores, translating to a margin improvement from about 27% in Q4 to about 29% in Q1, leveraging operational excellence and the commercial strategy of the Tata Steel ecosystem. Moving now to the European operations, I would like to comment on the local market dynamics before moving on to the performance. Steel prices in the UK have moved higher in the last few months on the back of policy developments. The UK reduced tariff-free import quotas by about 3.3 to 3.4 million tonnes effective 1st July and applied a 50% tariff on imports beyond quota levels. While this provides near-term support to the domestic supply chains, as Naren mentioned, we have highlighted to the UK government that the measures fall short of their initial proposals and have requested that the quotas should be revisited to reflect the prevalent market conditions and demand situations across product categories and not just the total steel volume basis. In the EU, the tightened EU safeguard system announced last year and effective 1st July is designed to complement the CBAM and together these measures have helped to reset the European steel prices and will improve preference for local steel supply. Over the next few quarters and going forward. However, the near-term market momentum remains a bit subdued in part because of the more than average inventory levels and subdued demand on the underlying basis. In July, the European Commission reviewed the EU ETS and has opted for a slower phase-out of CO2 emission allowances. The proposal is still aligned with the EU climate law targeting about 90% net reduction in GHG emissions by 2040 but has slowed the pressure for the pace of industrial decarbonisation in the near decade. We continue to monitor the developments in both geographies and are engaging with the authorities on the safeguards in the upcoming UK CBAM framework. Moving to the financial performance for the quarter, the UK business continued its steady progress to improve its performance. The EBITDA losses have now narrowed down from minus 48 million in the fourth quarter to minus 27 million in the first quarter. Marking the fourth consecutive quarter of improvement, UK revenue stood at about 484 million and increased by 3% or 15 million on a quarter on quarter basis despite drop in volumes. The uplift was driven by higher net realizations to the tune of about £91 per tonne. This was partly offset by the rise in the total cost to the tune of about £54 per tonne, leading to an EBITDA improvement by about £36 per tonne. On June 3rd, 2026, there was a major fire at the Port Talbot Pickle Line. All personals were safely evacuated with no injuries reflecting strong safety protocols. We are preparing for the insurance recovery process to recover some of the damages due to the fire. To mitigate the impact, Tarasteel UK expedited the restart and ramp-up of alternate facilities, the Land 1 Coal Mill and the Pickle Line. In Q1, the volume impact on account of the fire was about 10,000 tons with EBITDA impact of about 5 million pounds. There is a ramp-up process for the Land 1 Mill with new shifts being added to offset some of the volume impacts. and we hope to ensure that by Q3-Q4 we should be on normal levels. With relation to the 3 million ton SCAP based electric arc furnace, our site works construction and equipment sourcing is largely on schedule. We have completed the ground works, 35% of the piling and the ordering of all major OEM packages. Close to half of the equipment to be delivered has already been manufactured and is readying in parts for delivery. We have previously said that there will be some delay in the delivery of the new high voltage connection by National Grid and we are continuing to work very closely with them and the other authorities to mitigate the delay. Moving to Netherlands, we were affected by the loss of the finished steel production due to the shutdown of the direct shift mill plant which Narin mentioned and for almost the full quarter due to the exceedance of chrome emissions in the line beyond the specified levels. The direct shift plant annual capacity is about 1.4 million tons which as Narin also mentioned 20% of our total volumes. This disruption has impacted the overall volumes and fixed cost absorption this quarter and hence the profitability as well. The plant is expected to start for an extended four-week trial early next week after the completion of the remediation process in close coordination with the regulators. Trial results have been promising so far and this extended run should provide sufficient information to allow the line to come back into full production in the ordinary course. Revenues for the quarter was about 1.4 billion euros. On a per ton basis the revenue was up by about 87 euros per ton but this was more than offset by the rise in the cost to the tune of 118 euros per ton on a quarter and quarter basis largely due to the volume loss coupled with the increase in the raw material costs. EBITDA for this quarter was at about 4 million euros. Our business in Netherlands continues to navigate through certain uncertainties relating to the environment, regulatory and legal issues. The difficulty we see is that being the only steel company in the Netherlands, there are often no relevant reference points and sometimes the local regulatory standards are set beyond the EU norms or those applicable elsewhere in the industry. Since 2020, we have implemented substantial measurable improvements at our Imouden operations. The number of the so-called undercooked coke incidents which is subject for example the criminal investigation on TSN has been reduced by 98% and the occurrence rate now stands at less than 0.11% of the total pushes which is below the industry average. TSN CO2 intensity stands at approximately 1.66 tons of CO2 per ton of crude steel, placing us amongst one of the most lowest CO2 integrated steel producers in the world. Therefore, while some of the compliance issues are being addressed and mitigated, some technical standards and requirements are both technically challenging and without precedent. We are working with all stakeholders including the province, regulators, communities and the Netherlands governments to address these challenges. Moving now to cash flows, we spent about 3579 crores on capital expenditure during the quarter of which majority was in India. Our recently completed capacity expansion in phase 2 of Kalinga Nagar with 5 million tonnes and 0.75 million tonnes of EF in Ludhiana are ramping up well. and I have been complimented by the earlier announced focused investments in the downstream facilities that Narendra again mentioned, further strengthening our product mix and reinforcing our leadership in the chosen segments. In line with the growth strategy indicated earlier, the board yesterday accorded the final investment approval for the 4.8 million ton expansion in long products capacity covering wire rods and rebars, including solutions beyond that. at the NINL site for an investment of 33,873 crores towards the core project of the steel making or steel capacity expansion. This will take the site to 6.2 million tons at the end of the first phase of the expansion as part of the overall strategy to build 10 million tons in that site. We are also expanding our iron ore mining capacity in the MBK mines which are part of NINL by 15 million tons per annum of iron ore in phases. The merger process of NINL with Tata Steel is also progressing as per plan and is expected to be completed by the end of the current financial year. Our previously announced expansions in downstream capacity are progressing well. The 300 kiloton capacity expansion in tin plate and the hot roll pickling and galvanizing project of 0.74 million tons are both on track for completion within the next 30 months. The 0.5 million ton combi mill in Jamshedpur has been commissioned and is midway through its ramp up. We plan to add about 0.42 million tons of tube capacity also during the financial year 27 through an asset light model. On the balance sheet, the net debt stands at about 84,000 crores and the net debt to EBITDA comfortably at 2.3, which is within our stated range of 2.5 to 3x through the cycle. The stated range of net debt to EBITDA factors in the funding requirements for all the ongoing and recently announced expansion projects. Our group liquidity remains strong at about 45,950 crores which includes about 13,200 crores of cash and cash equivalent. This provides significant financial flexibility to fund our growth and our upcoming projects. Our annualized return on invested capital for this quarter in India is about 27% and on consolidated basis is about 15%. With this, I will end my presentation and open the floor for questions. Thank you.

We will now begin with the question and answer session. We will be taking questions on audio and chat. To join the audio questions queue, please mention your full name and email ID in the chat box. Kindly stick to a maximum of two questions per participant and rejoin the queue should you have a follow-up question. We will unmute your mic so that you can ask your question. To ask questions on chat, please type in your question along with your full name and email ID in the chat box. To use the chat box, if you have logged in from your desktop, kindly click on direct and then chat with all panelists. If you have logged in from mobile devices, you have to select all panelists from the dropdown. We will wait for a moment as the queue assembles. The first question of the day is from Vivav Zutshi of JP Morgan. Vivav, please go ahead.

Yes, hi, thanks for the opportunity. The first question is on the European prices. So our expectation was that prices will keep narrowing the gap between US prices. But so far, you know, they have been stuck around 700 euro per ton and demand continues to be weak. So as we get into the restocking cycle later in the year, do you think it will be sufficient to drive a significant uptick in prices? Thank you.

Thanks. I don't see Narayan here.

I think we just lost him for a minute.

Let me answer that. I think what we are seeing currently is a lot of disruption that has happened on the regulatory front. So people have been stocking up and as I mentioned that the inventory levels are significantly higher than the average levels. We see that as we move deeper into the year, there is an uptick especially when the contract Renegotiations season starts in November that due to the CBAM impact as well as the quota impact because we should be mindful of the fact that 18 million tons out of the 30 million tons will be only available for imports. So therefore that's almost about 47% of the actual volumes imported will be taken out from the market leaving the domestic market to earn supplies to come in. which is one of the biggest triggers that we see beyond the CBAM. So I think there is still a fairly long runway as far as price increases are concerned in the European market. But it will happen in phases incrementally rather than a sharp uptake because this is a structural change that is happening in the European market.

Okay, got it. That's helpful. Second question is on the UK. So how should we read your overall comments that UK prices are at $100 per tonne premium over EU? But of course, the safeguard quotas haven't been very effective in cutting down imports and just applicable on certain products. and broadly tying into the fact that you had guided for a potential EBITDA breakeven in second half. So do you still see it achievable or it's contingent on the negotiations that are going on with the government?

So based on our hypothesis was fundamentally based on the initial proposals that were given. We still believe as we see that the prices have increased. There are certain segments of evaluated products like galvanized or tubes in UK which still has got very high quotas especially in relation to the Southeast Asian and Asian mills. and that is what we have been basically talking about. I think there is still runway to increase and our guidance is on when we said that I think Naren mentioned last time that we are moving towards EBITDA breakeven and that is still on course. There is some heavy lifting we have to do also internally but Maybe irrespective of the change in the quotas, minimizing it to almost breakeven is what our view is. Maybe pushed by one quarter, may not be in Q2, but Q3, Q4. In the second half, we should be able to be closer to breakeven. So I don't think we've changed our goalposts. The prices are helping but we need to see. As I said that the contract renewal that will happen from November onwards will also be an indicator as to how the price increases are sticking. Naren, you want to add something? The question was effectively that two questions. First one was on European prices which I answered. Does it have more runway to increase given the muted demand? The second one was in the UK that are you still guiding for a neutral EBITDA in the second half?

I think in UK, as Kaushik said, every quarter is getting better than the previous quarter. The trajectory holds. I think the speed is what we have struggled with a bit. But hopefully the trade actions, though not fully what we wanted, is helping us and bringing UK prices close to European prices, if not slightly better, which is what it was historically. But for the last year or so it has been well below European prices and we are happy that that is what it is. And European prices are also moving up closer to the US prices which traditionally used to be $100-$200 less and now the gap is almost $400-$300-$400. So I think we are seeing a rebalancing of prices and we have been talking about this for some time and which not only reflects the costs in those markets but also addresses the High Imports which was there both in Europe and in the UK. I think in Europe also with the quotas coming down to 18 million, there's far more stability as far as imports is concerned and in UK as well because of these actions there is some support at least for hot-roll coils etc. Got it, thank you so much. Thanks.

The next question of the day is from Parthiv Johansa of Anand Rathi. Parthiv, please proceed with your question.

Hi sir, good afternoon and thank you for the opportunity. So my first question is pertaining to the Maharashtra Capex, right? Because in the annual report, you have mentioned that the Maharashtra Capex would be somewhere around 6 odd million tons. However, in the presentation and the press release, it has been trimmed down to 5. So is that so that you have finalized some plan around Maharashtra? Is that the thing? And the second part of this particular question is related to NINL. Now that NINL is moving say from almost say about a 1 million 10 to 6.2 million 10 for whatever Capex you have announced, the Capex works out to almost what 33% higher than the last leg of Capex, so what you do at Kalinga Nagar basically. So what is the difference because both, so just wanted to get your understanding on the Capex front actually. Yeah.

So yeah, go ahead Koushik. So first on Maharashtra, I think based on the land that we are talking about, it's about plus 3000 acres is what we are targeting. If you look at our Kalinganagar phase 2, we actually had one blast furnace which was 5 million tons and if you look at it from a productivity point of view and from an asset efficiency point of view, our view is that we will go in that copy plants of 5 million tons and that is the reason so the total Maharashtra volume eventually in phases We can take in somewhere around 15. We have not started the engineering work or work to that effect. But it will be somewhere around 15 million tons. That's the land capacity. And therefore from an asset efficiency point of view, It will be effectively 3 blast furnaces of 555 each. So that's the recalibration because when the 6 million ton was talked about, we had talked about 3 plus 3. But given our experience of using large blast furnaces, it is more productive to use larger blast furnaces rather than multiple smaller ones. That's the reason for 6105. The point that you mentioned on NINL, NINL you should actually look at it as a greenfield project. Phase 2 of Kalinga Nagar was a bolt on from phase 1. A lot of enabling facilities of the Kalinga Nagar 8 million ton was also done in phase 1. So I think it is important to understand that between the several enabling work that is required on the site, on the layout, Environment conditions to be complied etc. All of this and the size of the plants and the number of mills that we have because in phase 2 in Kalinga Nagar we did not have to do the HSM because that was already there. We had to just expand the capacity. So it's an asset optimization process and the phase and the NINL one needs to be looked at more like a green field.

And the other thing to add to what Koushik said is if you look at the exchange rate and for all the equipment that you buy from overseas, that's also changed significantly in the last 10 years. So whether it's phase 1 Kalinganagar, phase 2 or now Tilachal. So the dollar exchange rate also has an impact on the capital cost for the imported equipment.

Thank you so much sir for the answer. So my second question is pertaining to your captive mines basically now that in Annaldupur also you have mentioned that you know 50% of the requirement post 30 would be met through either NINL or couple of other mines what you would still have post 30. So just wanted to quickly get your understanding what is the kind of cost saving or maybe you know the kind of delta what we should built in Considering that you still have 50% of the mine beyond 2030 and will this 50% ratio still hold when you basically hit a 40 million ton target basically?

Yeah. So if you look at iron ore, today we are maybe about 45 million tons going to 50 million tons of iron ore production. And I would say 90% of that production is actually coming from our old mines. The existing, the newer mines which is Gandhalpada, what we call MKB which is The Nilachal Mines or Kalamang which we got with the Bhushan acquisition. So these are today producing less than 5 million tons. Over the next few years we expect to take this to about 30-35 million tons. So that's the work which is going on currently. Obviously the cost of iron ore from those mines will be higher than what we have today. because some of them are with zero premium, some of them are with high premium. The qualities are different. Gandhalpara mine is high premium but it has very low alumina. So that has a value in use benefit etc. So it's not just a pure iron ore cost, we look at the value in use, we look at the quality. The reason why we said 50% captive is because if you had 30-35 million tons and you need about 60 million tons of iron ore then you are at 50%. We can always bid for the mines, our own mines which are coming up for auction as well as any new mines. But we also want to look at the cost of having captive. Because having captive ore is not an end in itself, it should be competitively priced. And if people are paying 120, 130, 140% then it becomes a bit difficult to justify that kind of a cost. You need some iron ore supply to keep the plant running without disturbance but otherwise you can Thank you so much.

Thank you, sir. The next question is from Satyadeep Jain of Ambit Capital. Satyadeep, please proceed with your question.

Hi, thank you. The first one, Netherlands, just maybe more for understanding. So the caster and rolling mill, you're saying 20% of the production is impacted, where the remaining casting and rolling operations don't have high chromium 6, and when you transition to DRIEF, Will you still not have challenges there in case some of these things are not there's no resolution even if you transition those issues will remain and this coke in oven undercooked I know there's a hearing on 20th November is there a criminal Is this a case against executives also or is it mainly company? We don't really know the full extent of what the investigation is. And in light of everything that you're seeing in Netherlands and the easing of LRF and all, are you less enthused about Netherlands in general or Europe? Is there a possibility of looking at another, if you are so positive about Europe? Why Netherlands? Is there a possibility of looking at some other country if you're saying there's only one male and you're facing challenges there? Just trying to understand how you're thinking about Netherlands.

So let me start and then Koushik can complete what I have not covered. So more specifically to your question, this is a specific emission related to our DSP or direct sheet plant which is basically what in India you call a thin slab caster in rolling, it is similar to that. So the emission is coming out of the tunnel furnaces that are unique to this way of producing steel where the slab is cast and immediately rolled in the hot strip mill. So there's a tunnel furnace which connects those slabs to the hot strip mill and these are from the rolls, the kind of rolls that you use in those tunnels. So this was not a measurement which We were doing earlier, as we did the full audit of what are all the measurements that we need to do, we came across this. We found some deviation. We proactively informed the authorities in the interest of transparency because that was something that we were trying to do so that we work more transparently with the authorities. So it was something that we noticed. We discussed with them. and the then they said it's better to shut it down till we solve the problem so we have we feel we pretty much solved the problem because we've changed all the rollers there are dry rollers and wet rollers and so we've changed those rollers so the emissions today seem to be under control the authorities have given us a permission to start the plant again on the 5th of august and run it for a month and do the measurements and we are confident that it should be within Narendra Narendra Narendra So I think this is a unique kind of problem which we have pretty close to addressing. The second point I think Koushik alluded to in his comments. You know the concern we have in Netherlands is that some of the expectations are beyond what any other steel company in Europe, forget rest of the world. I am just saying even in Europe other steel companies are not expected to Meet the levels that we are expected to meet in Netherlands and that is a conversation we are having with the government and the regulatory authorities. The law may be that we need to look at then is that being fair to us because ultimately we have to compete with the other steel companies in Europe. So that's a conversation going on with the authorities to see can we be fairer, can we have a more level playing field as far as emissions are concerned because some of it are technically not, nobody has done it. So we need to find a technical solution and obviously some of these will have an impact on the operating capability or the cost etc. So it's a complicated conversation I think. We feel in many metrics we are amongst the best in the world. Like CO2 as Koushik said we are in the top 3 in the world through the blasphemous route at 1.66. I am just giving you a sense in India the average is 2.2. In the rest of the world it is 2. And in Netherlands we are at 1.68. So that's the level at which the CO2 emission is. On many other emissions, castor emissions, etc., we are already at levels which nobody else is. So these are the challenges. Having said that, the narrative in Europe is because, as I said earlier, the European market, like the US, is also trying to support its industry and make sure that unfairly priced imports are not you know in some sense destroying value for the industry and hence the reduction in quotas is welcome the CBAM is again making sure there's a level playing field because european steel producers pay a carbon tax we pay a carbon tax so anyone who sells in europe is also required to pay that carbon tax it's a equalization kind of thing so we see that and the third thing is in europe the You know, as a geography, there's more investment in manufacturing, in defense, in infrastructure, etc. So we do see these actions helping the European steel industry going forward. And hence, the point you're making is the European steel market should be more attractive going forward than it was in the past. From our point of view, We feel Netherlands asset is one of the best sites in Europe, not only for many metrics of performance, but also because it's a coastal plant. There are very few coastal plants in Europe. We are one of them. So if Europe has to make steel, actually Netherlands and a Dutch plant is one of the best places to make steel because it's well positioned. And that's why we feel that amongst the locations in Europe, we are already in one of the best locations from a steelmaking point of view and hence would like to be there if... We can address all these issues. So that's a conversation going on with the authorities. In terms of the financial numbers, yeah, I think I don't know if Koushik mentioned that during the time when I was out. We expect Q2 to be better than Q1. The benefits that we started getting out of the prices were washed away because of the DSP. and because of some of the other impacts but we expect volumes and EBITDA to be better in Q2 than Q1, lower than what we would like it to be but certainly starting to move in the right direction. Maybe Koushik you can add to what I said.

Yeah so I think I'll just add to or respond to Satyadeep your questions on The first point is there are certain here and now challenges as we are seeing. and those challenges if you look at our separate disclosures we are pretty copious about those challenges the first one is in relation to the coke and gas plant and then there is the direct sheet mill which strip mill which kind of just is getting addressed Then there are the emission cases which are relating to green pushes and as I just mentioned that there's hardly any green push at this point of time and we are certainly much much below the industry standards. So as of now as far as the cases are concerned the Public Prosecutor has said we intend to go forward in the case. We have our defense and I think we have our data and position on the defense. It's essentially on the company. We have heard about the fact that there can be people named but not named as yet. So we will just see as to how this unfolds. But I think we have all the defence available for us to fight this case out. Second point, I think as part of our last year's non-binding jailoy with the government, there were certain conditions on both sides. and slag is one of those conditions and slag is something that is also not only a future issue but also a here and now issue there are two regulators involved with different views at this point of time so which is what we are working again So, in a nutshell you can say that we are currently reassessing or assessing the situation with all stakeholders to understand the investability of the DRIEF, the regulatory framework within which there is not just an investment case but also a sustenance case because these investments are done for 20-25 years. and therefore we are looking at the overall risk return reward profile and assessing that in the context of the investment proposal that we have. We have done a fair bit of almost all of it the engineering study so we know now exactly what needs to be done but we will not move till we have clarity on many of these things so that is how we are. and finally it has to make the investment in the business case, it has to have a return which works. I think what Narendra mentioned rightly is the point that the European market is expected to be better than before but there is also the issue in relation to the sustainability of the business and whether the bang for buck is there for new investments so that is dependent purely on the regulatory side as you are aware and as I mentioned that the EU ETS is also now stretched down so that also will have some impact on the investability because the CBAM will be lower given the curve and if CBAM is lower then it impacts the investment case so to what extent is what we are working around just now and a lot will depend actually on the quota moving forward which has been announced and finally is the certainty on the regulatory standards and framework within which we can operate. So all of this is being considered and as I mentioned we are deeply involved with all stakeholders to understand before we take any decision one way or the other.

Thank you for a detailed answer. Just one quick question on India. What is the timeline for NINL commissioning? And you have the EAF now commissioned Ludhiana. Just maybe if you can share some economics of, I know it's just very early in the process, but how do we look at profitability for Ludhiana and what's the timeline for NINL commissioning you're looking at?

NINL is 48 months is what we have committed that within 48 months we will have the plant up. As far as Ludhiana is concerned, so it's a different operating model. As you know, the Ludhiana model is based on the fact that you will collect scrap locally and sell steel locally. So the whole model is about collecting steel scrap from within 300 kilometers of Ludhiana plant and selling steel within 300 kilometers. So what You pay more in terms of higher cost because obviously making steel through an electric arc furnace is more expensive than making steel through a blast furnace. So some of that cost disadvantage you offset through the saving on logistics cost. Otherwise you would spend 3-4 thousand rupees moving the steel from Jamshedpur or Nilachal to the Punjab area. So that's a model. Second part of the model is in anticipation that there will be some sort of carbon cost in India going forward. So our whole objective of getting from a linear value chain to a circular value chain over a period of time is to say that even if 5%, 10% of our production is through the recycling route, it's good for us to have that So, that's the whole model. As far as we are concerned. So beyond that, I think some next year, this time we will have a full year of production and we'll be able to come back with more specific numbers. The other thing to keep in mind is the Ludhiana plant was built in two years. It is a 3000 crore capex for a 0.85 million ton plant, right? Steel making and rolling plant, right? So if you look at it from a capex efficiency point of view and time efficiency point of view, it is much quicker than an integrated steel plant. So there are We are quite confident this model works and hence we are looking also at building a similar plant in the west and in the south and like I said you need 100-150 acres of land you can build it in two years and add 0.8-0.9 million tons.

Shoham, can we have the next question, please?

The next question of the day is from Sumangal Nebatia of Kotak Securities. Sumangal, please go ahead.

Yeah, good afternoon, everyone. First question is, if you can share, what is the NSR movement expected given how July is panning out across both India, UK, Netherlands, and also a usual commentary on the cost changes that we are expecting?

Sure. So I will give you a guidance on the prices and maybe Koushik can comment on the costs. So as far as prices are concerned, last quarter we had guided in India 6000 rupee increase which is pretty much what we got. This quarter we are saying will be about 1500 rupees lower than Q1 in India. Obviously, some areas like in long products, the drop between April and July is much more than in flat products. Flat products are also holding out a bit because the auto demand has been very strong. Longs is impacted by construction activities slowing down during the monsoons. But I think we mentioned before, while there will be some margin compression in India, Because there will be additional volumes in Q2 compared to Q1, we expect the Rupees crore to be better in Q2 than in Q1 in India. As far as UK is concerned, I think we had guided a £80 increase quarter on quarter. Q1 compared to Q4, I think we delivered a £90 increase. And as far as Q2 is concerned, it will be another £70 to £80 is what we are expecting, Q2 over Q1. but doesn't all flow to the margins because UK has fed out of substrate and so the substrate cost will also go up to reflect market right so it's not that the entire 80 pounds will flow into the bottom line so that's one As far as Netherlands is concerned, we had guided 80 euros and I think we delivered 70 euros last quarter and this quarter the guidance is about 10 euros per ton increase. As Koushik mentioned, in Europe, we are a lot more impacted by contracts because you have long-term, quarterly, so some of the flow happens over a period of time. In India, I also want to add that we will get some of the benefit of the auto increases that we got because most of that was negotiated towards the end of Q1 and so all the increases, some of it is flown through into Q1 numbers, some of it will flow through into the Q2 numbers. But the 1500 drop has factored all that in. Koushik, you want to talk on the cost side?

Yeah, so I think if I were to look at from a spread point of view, which would possibly help you better. So I think we will see spread expansion in UK in the second quarter between the substrate and the HR because we are seeing improvement in the prices. The Netherlands spread is ballpark going to remain same. and as Naren mentioned we're going to get some of the benefits on the revenue side in order to the as far as the cooking coal consumption cost is concerned I think we will be at about 184 dollars per ton kind of levels and that is the I think we we've been able to manage the the increases in the consumption cost from a cooking coal perspective from a mix perspective so broadly that's the inputs that I would like to give

Koushik 184 versus what in 1Q?

Q4 was 160, right?

Consumption cost in Q2 for coking coal in India will be about $5 higher and for Netherlands will be about $10. Q2 to Q1.

Got it. That's very clear. For NINL expansion, we said 48 months. So is the zero date already, say, from today? First August. First August. Okay. And got that. And the mine will be parallely developed or are we expecting any lead or lag?

In phases. In phases. but I think the it will be if I were to talk over the expansion of mines is not covered in the capex that I talked about it is in addition to that but as Naren mentioned that we are expecting more mine development from the three mines that are much smaller currently it will be concurrent to the commissioning as far as the steel making is concerned Understood.

On the iron ore topic itself, since 3-4 years down the line, we will see a very massive transition. Is it possible to share what could be the blended cost increase if we take today's market price, maybe at iron ore or steel level?

Blended cost of iron ore, is it?

So I just want to understand what would be the blended cost increase, say if you go by your assumption of 50% captive, 50% merchant, if you take today's price of iron ore, market price of iron ore in say 3-4 years time.

Yeah. So, Samita, have you given specific numbers?

Yeah, no, no. So, I think, Simmangal, you know, I think that's, there are a lot of variables here because you're talking about domestic prices, you're talking about international prices, how that's moving. You know, the forecast on international prices is what is it, depends on the mix. So, I think too many variables here to give you a specific. I would suggest you sort of talk or model it, you know, in your workings through a mix. You've given an indication of what level of mix is expected to be captive and how much we will buy. But I think to get into some specific numbers at this stage is honestly very premature.

But I'll give you a little bit of a, not numbers, but I'll give you a broader sense. Surely the cost will be higher, right? Not just for us, for everyone, right? And that's one of the reasons why we feel that The value pool in the steel value chain may shift from upstream closer to downstream. Okay, because if you're going to buy iron ore at anyone, in India is going to keep buying iron ore at 120%, 130% market price and try to, and as it is, we've always said that the effective tax rate in India for raw materials is amongst the highest in the world. So there's a 65% effective tax rate anyways, even if you just buy iron ore at market, right? And then on top of that, the premiums, right? So we feel that the cost of producing steel in India will go up because everyone's buying iron ore at these prices. And hence Tata Steel is saying that while we will keep the optionality of building upstream, as Koushik described, between our existing sites we can go up to 48-50 million tons. Because you have 25-26 million tons in Kalinga Nagar, you have 11 in Jamshedpur, you have 10 in Miramandli, then you have the Luthiana plant, you may build 2-3 more like that. So there is a roadmap from 45-50 million tons already available with existing assets. Then on top of that, if you do a Maharashtra, you have another 15 million. So we will keep these optionalities open because the demand of steel will continue to grow. But demand doesn't necessarily mean good profits just because you produce steel. So we just want to look at which part of that value chain should we be more, where should our capital go more and that's why we feel that there is a lot more value for us to Put money in the upstream but also put more money in downstream than we put in the past. And we feel that some of the cost increases that we will see in the input cost will be offset by the cost takeouts that we are doing on efficiency that Kaushik has talked about, which is a conversion cost. Plus the fact that we will be scaling up plants like Nilachal and Kalinganagar which don't have the legacy cost that we carry in Jamshedpur etc. Plus these are plants closer to the sea so a lot of logistics costs come down compared to inland plants. So for multiple reasons we feel that there will be a lot of cost takeouts which can offset the input cost increase and the move down the value chain will help us focus a lot more on revenues to offset some of these cost increases. So we are looking at how can you deliver an EBITDA margin close to what we are delivering today even if the iron ore prices go up. I think that is basically our objective.

The next question is from Ashish Jain of Macquery. Ashish, please go ahead.

Hi, sir. Hi. You know, going back to the earlier question on the European investment, like in the last three, four years, we have taken some initiatives, some are midway in terms of execution. But, you know, parallelly, the policy framework that has evolved really has not been in line with what we were talking about back then. Right. So is there a rethinking on this at all on the table that we, you know, scale back our European aspirations and, you know, put energy more in India? Or is it like we want to be there, you know, from what may kind of situation?

So Ashish, let me put it this way, need not be one or the other, right? And I think we will grow in India as we want to. And like I just described as an answer to the earlier question, grow in India doesn't necessarily mean just building more and more blast furnaces, you will build blast furnaces where you think that's the right thing to do, you will build electric arc furnaces, where you think that's the right thing to do, you will build downstream, where you think that's the right thing to do, right? So we will balance it out in terms of what is the best place to Put money in India even as we participate in the growth in India. As far as Europe is concerned, the fact that you are going to be penalized on CO2 stays. There is a carbon tax that you're paying. Just now, as Kaushik said, for Europe, we've got a four-year extension on the free allowances. But otherwise, if you don't do anything, you will pay a carbon tax in Europe, which will keep increasing. So then the carbon border adjustment mechanism is the support that is being provided so that European steel producers are not disadvantaged. So to some extent, it's not that the policy has changed. The policy is happening as it was said to. What has changed for us is more the regulatory environment in Netherlands has become more and more... So that is obviously making us reflect on what we need to do there. One is of course to run the existing operation and obviously as Kaushik said before we make new investments we need to see that there is a social license to operate and there is a return on any investment that we make. So we will plan our investments in Europe, if at all, based on the regulatory environment. The market side is certainly improved, as we said earlier. The policy support for the transition continues to be there. Regulatory environment, particularly in Netherlands, is becoming quite challenging. So we will evaluate and move forward accordingly. Just now the only capital committed is in the UK transformation. And UK transformation, as we have explained before, if you do this transformation, already we have taken out about 400 million pounds of fixed costs in the last three years. and in addition to that our OPEX by using local scrap and the electricity rates that we've negotiated etc. we feel that the cost position of UK will be about 100 to 150 pounds per ton better than it was before we did all this. So in many ways that was again the right direction to move it. Koushik you want to add anything?

Yeah just to make two three comments. One is The weightage of capital allocation on India will certainly be the one to dominate. That is one part. Whether it is in the upstream volume expansion or the downstream value expansion. The second part is, see in Europe the investment that we are talking about in Netherlands etc. Siddharth Narendran, Sarvesh Kumar So today we have the market support through CBAM. through the quotas and tariffs and EU ETS. EU ETS has got slightly diluted or I would say not slightly moderately diluted because of the extension of the timeframe and that is also demanded by many of the market players who are saying that it is not viable to to not have the free allowances and the CO2 costs are prohibitively uneconomical. So therefore, the EU ETS has got relaxed. CBAM is in force. It is getting more validated through assessments, etc. and the quotas are in place so the market support as Naren mentioned is there the government support is there there are caps to that and then the policy support which is the transition policy support and then there is a normal ordinary course of business policy support which is where we are seeing challenges in Netherlands in particular So we will have to take all of these into account and then say does it stand this decision is not just for today it is actually going to be for the next two decades three decades because it's a transition process and this is the phase one of the transition there's a phase two of the other blast furnace also necessary So therefore we will take all of these into account and then come to a conclusion of whether this is the path to go forward or is there another alternative path to go forward which is not so capex heavy etc etc. So I think we are in that zone just now but if these regulatory frameworks become permanent and there is no rethink then obviously there will be a rethink at least on our side. and that is important for us to understand. India in my view and the way we are moving ahead is not constrained by what is happening in Europe. India is actually focused on delivering consistent growth in a manner in which we can create sustainable value over the long term and also to tell you that we are also looking at The investments in new technology in India, which is also to help the sustenance, whether it's the easy melt or the Hisana etc. So India capital allocation story is not dependent on Europe. It will follow its own course. It will continue to grow in both upstream and downstream. So that is the framework within which we are looking at. If the government support was is not there from funding point of view in any of the geographies which is to change the process technology we would not have the ability to do that investment it is very very very clear and that's the optimal so the government support policy support market support all these things and the social license to operate the community support All these have to be in the same alignment. Then it makes sense for any investment to do. So I thought it will just make a more a principled comment on what you just asked. And then we'll see as to where we go. There is a time during which we will complete this assessment including our engagement with the various stakeholders and then come to a conclusion. But India is not affected as I hope the NIL approval by the board yesterday endorses that point that the India capital allocation and growth story is not dependent on any other parts of the business.

Thank you sir. The next question is from Amit Murarka of Axis Capital. Amit, please proceed with your question.

Yeah, hi, good afternoon and thanks for the opportunity. So just on India, NINL, congratulations firstly on the board approval coming through. But generally, post FY27, for almost like four years, you probably won't have enough capacity to grow volumes now. given that NINL will come on stream somewhere in 2030. So what is the plan in that sense to kind of make up for this? Is there any way you can make sure that you still participate in the India growth of let's say 7% CAGR and even if we take NINL coming in 4-5 years it still implies like a 3-3.5% CAGR only which is still much lower than market. So what generally is the long term thinking on the India growth?

So, Amit, I think, again, you know, I want to emphasize something, right? Our objective is not to be the largest player in India or market share by size unless it creates value. So we feel that we want to have a market share in chosen segments which is double, that is our overall market share. That has always been our stated position. So if we are 20% market share in India, we want to be 40% market share in segments which we think are more value accretive. where it's approval based or where we have a good franchise like Tata Tiscone or downstream etc etc. So we are looking not just at the volume growth in upstream where like I said we have an optionality and we will grow at the pace at which we think is right but we also want to grow even in the next 2-3 years we are adding a HR galvanizing line in Tarapore which is going to be a state of the art Hot Roll Galvanizing Line in India. Nobody else has that. We are adding, doubling our tin plate capacity, packaging steel capacity, which is 20,000 rupees or something, 25,000 rupees value add on the Hot Roll Coil. So then we are wanting to grow our tubes business, which is today about 1-1.5 million to maybe about 4 million tons in the next few years. We want to grow our wire business, which is at 600,000 tons to a million tons. So there is a lot of growth that we are doing in downstream businesses where we have a strong position. We are the leading player in most of these businesses and we want to grow in that. So the upstream growth, yeah, Nilachal, there's a Kalinga Nagar which we will plan or more, maybe in the next year we will plan the Miramundi expansion from 5 to 6.5 million tons. We also have other projects because today we are selling about couple of million tons of, sending couple of million tons of slabs. We are looking at it from that perspective. Next phase beyond Nilachal will be, of course, there is an opportunity in the next three years to build a couple of more Ludhianas. There is an opportunity in the next few years to also expand Mirabandli. And beyond that, of course, we have Maharashtra, we have Kalinganagar phase 3, Nilachal phase 2, etc. So that's the plan that we have going ahead.

The next question is from Pinnakin Parekh of HSBC. Pinnakin, please go ahead.

Yeah, just to clarify, right, when you say that Tata Steel... does not want to be the largest upstream company and you want to focus on downstream. Is it because the company thinks that a new upstream greenfield steel plant in India with potential iron ore cost based on market pricing post 2030 does not justify the return profile? Because we would assume that given where steel prices are and given where iron ore prices are, it will still be profitable to set up upstream capacity in India than let's say invest in Europe.

Yeah, but we are not saying that we won't set up upstream because we're investing in Europe, right? We will evaluate Europe separately, we will evaluate India separately. So if there is a even post 2030 with high iron ore prices, depending on where the rupee is, because we'll still be importing coal. So, depending on all that, if there is value, of course, we are keeping that optionality. We will have an optionality of 65 million tons by then because Maharashtra also we would have that optionality. We already have an optionality of 50. So, we have that optionality. So, if it makes sense, we will certainly grow. But we feel that If earlier we spent all our money on upstream and less on downstream, we feel that that mix needs to change a lot more because we feel that there is a lot more value for lot less capital available in the downstream and that is closer to the customer and that also depends on the franchises that you have and the relationships that you have etc. So it's not that there is no business case for upstream beyond 2030. But it will not be, if you're going to, if everyone, not just Tata Steel, if everyone's going to pay 100% or more, you know, for iron ore in the market, then that takes away value. So value is going in some sense from industry to the government, right? Whether in terms of royalty, whether in terms of premium, whether in terms of taxes. So that's a larger issue, which we are talking to the government to say that our biggest advantage as India as a country is iron ore. and if we in some sense have a situation where the iron ore cost itself is very high for everyone for whatever reason and part of the problem is us as private sector also the way we are bidding for the mines. So we are in some sense passing on all the value to the government even before we start adding value. And the other question to think about is there is a lot of upstream capacity which everyone has built. Then maybe you're better off being a buyer of some of that product to convert it into higher value products. So there are different ways to look at this industry and it's a long value chain.

So if I just may add to Pinnakein, see when you look at the sequence of growth and I think we have said this many times, the NINL first phase, second phase, if you look at the Kalinga Nagar going up to 17 million tonnes, Bhushan or Meramadli going to 10 million tonnes eventually, and then Maharashtra 15. That is actually a very significant upstream growth of about 60-65 million tons and the EAFs. So the question is, is the world going to fall off in 2030? or is this a journey because I think when Amit talked about the CAGR growth of 7%, it's certainly not going to fall off in 2030. It's a two-decade, three-decade process, right? So the question is, how do you actually sequence and grow without producing huge volumes and then at the commodity end and then look at export markets and then struggling on those fronts it is a question of how do you actually build the capacity with the demand in the segments where it is growing and in the areas that is growing so i think there needs to be more thoughtfulness rather than just volume growth but volume growth is not being stopped And as I repeat again, it has got nothing to do with Europe. Europe is on its own defining way of doing things and India will grow separately. The physicality of growth will depend actually on how we create the fronts and that's what we are working on. Our next goal is in Kalinga Nagar. and in parallel in Meramandli. So it will come in sequence. You will get to know the way in which we are progressing. It is not one unfolding of the envelope. As it happens, you will get the sense that between 2030-35, you will have a lot more capacity coming in, value-added mix coming in. So it is a process and we need to constantly work on the profitability effectively, which comes from the value also. As I said that in next 30 months there are a lot of downstream units which are going to come and get commissioned and by that time we should also be very close to another EAF etc. So I think those are the kind of things that we need to work around.

The next question is from Ritesh Shah of Investec. Ritesh, please go ahead.

Shoham, maybe we shift to the next speaker if we can't find Ritesh.

Hello, ma'am. The next question is from Jashandeep of Nomura. Jashandeep, please go ahead.

Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. So I have a clarification first before I ask my first question. So in the last quarter of EDAs, there were concerns on co-coven. And as far as I can understand, management has clarified that You have done some changes and now the emission rates or the concerns which were raised are below industry standard. Is my understanding right? And if that's the case, does management now believe that the going concerns which were raised earlier have less weightage now than they had before?

I think, let me again say something and then Koushik can... So basically the point Koushik was making is what is called green pushes. When you push coke coal into a coke oven and a green push is something where the coke is not fully cooked in some sense and you know obviously in the past we had more Such pushes than we should have had. That is clear. So a lot of actions were taken and today we are at 98-98% lower than what we were before. The requirement in Netherlands was to minimize coke pushes, green pushes. and but now that is being more specific to say there should be zero green push right which is we we our point is yes we are close to zero but there's no coca one anywhere operating with zero green push right a lot of work has been done to make sure that we are close to zero uh so that problem we feel is at a stage where it is better than at least anyone in europe forget anywhere else right But from the authorities point of view, given the problems that we've had in the past or the issues of the past, the whole thing is about not having a coke oven operate and to close a coke and gas plant. I think that is where we are. So that discussion is going on. That is not gone away. In some sense, that we would have done anyway if we were transitioning into a DRI, EAF, Process Route and the whole plan originally was to make that change by 2032 and 2035 etc. But now with the current conversations with the government, with the authorities etc. it's more to say can you do it in 2028, 29 or whatever is technically the most appropriate time. and run the blast furnaces using coke that you can buy from the market rather than making it locally. So that's the conversation which is going on. So Koushik, I think, you know, explains it. That's fine.

So that's actually the case. It would have got closed or transited out of coke ovens in the ordinary course if the DRIAF comes through. It's a pre-ponement. and in a manner where the compliance level are as much as technically feasible to do.

The next question is from Darshan Mehta of Dolat Capital. Darshan, please go ahead.

Yeah, thanks for giving the opportunity. So my question was mostly on the depreciation side. So we had guided for increased in depreciation for this quarter as well as for FY27. So can you just throw some light on what is it about? Thank you.

Yeah, sure. So as you know that our mining assets will come up for reauction or Weeding in 2030 and there are significant amount of assets in our mining locations, beneficiation plants, then other infrastructure assets, pipelines, etc. So because there is a defined time now, 2030, where it will be re-optioned with the right of first refusal to Tata Steel. We are actually accelerating the depreciation of these mining assets on the PPEs. So it will be about 300 crores a quarter. So 1200 crores every year additional depreciation in line so that there is not a big Amit Dixit of Goldman Sachs. Amit, please proceed with your question.

Hi, good afternoon everyone and thanks for the opportunity. Just a couple of questions from my side. Something very interesting you mentioned in your opening remarks about shipbuilding and data center. So just wanted to understand what kind of grades we are focusing there and whether it is for domestic shipbuilding, defense or we are targeting more export grade steel and also for data center if you can highlight a bit more. That is my first question.

Yeah, so on shipbuilding, basically with the Kalinga Nagar plant, which is one of the best hot shipmills in the country, at least for the sizes that is up to 25 mm thick and 2 meters wide, we can produce pretty much all grades, including the very high tensile kind of grades, etc. So for shipbuilding sector, you need to go through an approval process. You know, there's Lloyds and there's... ABB and there are few others there are few bodies in independent and international bodies who approve your material for use in shipbuilding so we've got those approvals and I think while the volumes are still small like I said we always like to be in the more discerning sectors because that's how you can protect yourself from the commodity cycles to some extent which we always face so I think we'll be doing about a hundred thousand tons this year to all these grades and lastly for the domestic market to go back to your question and then we can take it to about half a million tons but i think the more important thing is once we get an entry into these sectors get the approvals just like in auto also we started small we can always grow so just not the focus is domestic market but we can also look at international markets As far as data centers is concerned, when you build data centers, apart from the regular steels that you would supply, data centers also have a lot of storage solutions. Even if you look at a company like Nucor, a couple of years back, if you followed it, they spent $3 billion buying a storage solutions company. So our interest is more to get into the steels that data centers use, both in the construction of it as well as in the storage solutions that they need inside. And we have quite a few of the downstream value-added products which can tap into the data center market. Because basically what's happening is as more and more money is spent on these products, Thank you for joining us. And this is not just in India. Data centers, we're doing a lot of work in Europe as well. So between our colleagues in Europe and India, we are doing a lot of work to not only track the steels that are used, how do we tap into that market in an organized way. It's not just about selling the basic steel product, but more about going into the solutions which help these companies building and investing in data centers. So it's a growing segment and we want to be a big part of it.

I would now like to hand over the conference to Ms. Samita Shah for the chat questions. Over to you, ma'am.

Thank you, Shoram. I think we've answered most of the chat questions. There's just one on TS UK, which I will ask since this seems to be a concern, that in view of the ongoing or the recent nationalization of assets which has happened at UK, will Tata Steel participate and take up any of such opportunities?

So this nationalization bill or act that has come up in UK was in response to the situation in British Steel and in Rotherham where there was an electrical problem. Steel which incidentally was Tata Steel which actually sold. So if you look at UK steel industry the things which are getting nationalized were sold by Tata Steel 10 years back. So there is no, if that was the strategy then we wouldn't have sold it. So therefore we don't intend to participate. We are just now and will be focused only on our asset in Port Talbot where we are building the EAF.

Thank you. So with this, we will end. Thank you very much for all your questions and your participation. We will connect again next quarter. Thank you and bye.

Thank you all. Thanks for joining. Thank you.