Unipol Grupo Spa

Welcome to the Q&A session on the Consolidated Preliminary Results from the 31st December 2020 Gruppo Unipol. Group CEO Mr. Carlo Cimbre will go through a short introduction, then he will take questions. Mr. Cimbre, the floor is yours. Thank you.

Many thanks and good afternoon everyone. I'm here together with Dr. La Terza.

He's the Uri Polsai General Director. Now, as usual, you must have read our press release plus the presentation this morning. So without further ado, I do confirm we can now take questions right away. Thank you. So if you want to ask a question, please dial star followed by one on your telephone pad. If you want to get out of the booking list, please dial star followed by two. Please ask questions by using the receiver of your telephone. Once again, if you have questions, star plus one. Now, thank you. Question number one is from Elena Perini from Intel Sao Paulo. Good afternoon, everyone. I have three questions, if at all possible. Question number one is on the result of Unipol SAE. So fourth quarter, we know that the tax rate was very low. So I'd like to know if you have some one-off or extraordinary effects. So I'd like to know if you can give us some color about what happened from the tax point of view. Question number two. Concerning dividends, so do you know when you will be able to pay them? So maybe you need to talk to the regulator. And then as for the Unipol 2019 dividends, do you have any idea, any thoughts on how to, let's say, turn it in favor of shareholders? I read some days ago an article on the fact that the new table should be ready on the so-called macro lesions. So are you working on this?

Any color about this? Thank you. Thank you so much, and good afternoon, Elena. Now, as for question number one.

So, question number one was on the, well, tax benefits or tax effects, let's say so. Well, I have to say that you're right. As for Q3, we do have some taxes and levies having to do with, you know, the financial year. There are some differences in terms of the 2019 balance and the end of June 2020 balance. It's just some, let's say, calculations, differences.

Anyway, most important item is the so-called patent box.

Now, by patent box, we mean the use of intangible goods, for example, software programs or So, as for the five years from 2015 to 2019, well, in this case, there's a lower tax rate. So, we had never taken this element into account. So, this is the first time you see it in the financial statements. Anyway, we signed an agreement with the Italian Inland Revenue. So, of course, you have to see it here. The value of this item is 50 million euros.

Now, as for your second question, the question was on the, well, dividends. Okay, let me clarify the situation right now.

So, this, of course, is for Onypol, I mean, for the group of roles for Onypol site. and this is going to be, let's say, put forward to the general meeting. All of this has already been approved by the regulator, because maybe you know that in compliance with the regulator's recommendations, by the way, the very last one, I mean the latest recommendation, well, we have already talked to the regulator, so we have specified and described the expected results, which is exactly what we have shown you this morning. So we also talked about the solvability. We also talked about the quality of our financial statements. So not only the benefits, but all the elements that make our financial statements very strong, but also very, let's say, cautious, very prudent. So very strong on reservations, and funds, and very prudent, if you will, also on many other items. So again, once again, we have explained our opinions. There was a debate with the regulator. So what we are showing you today, and this is going to be the proposal to be put forward at the next general meeting, again, all of this has already been taken into account by the regulator. I'm now referring to the dividend distribution proposal, so what we will be distributing this year, 2021. As for the dividends that we have set aside in 2019, well, it will stay there, so it is right into our balance sheet. There's a specific item, let's say, reserves on... profits there you will find them in the amount that we think we have to distribute in 2019 but that was you know discontinued based on the well indications given to us by the regulator in 2019 so at that time so that was a little bit more than one year ago well those recommendations have turned into possible if you will prescriptions I mean something mandatory I'm sure You remember what came from the European Central Bank, but many other prescriptions from IVAS here in Italy or IOPA concerning the month of July. Maybe you remember that in the month of July there was a ban, so it was impossible to do dividend distribution. Now, that prescription, let's say, deadline was end of December. Now, the European Central Bank also gave us other prescriptions that So the limit, if I'm not mistaken, was 15%. So this is total amount of two years profit that was the maximum threshold or the maximum ceiling for banks. So we had to comply with a specific level of CET1, 20 points of CET1, if I'm not mistaken. So on the insurance side, I have to say that there was another recommendation. So we had to talk about this with the surveillance body, and of course, once again, caution was the key word, and this is the procedure we had to stick to. You understand that the dividend we're distributing represents exactly 33%, so the total profits of two years. So this is basically almost 100% more than what is allowed i mean see the banking industry from the european central banker so once again this is uh our intent today which is exactly the intent we had one year ago so for 2019 but also for 2020 our financial statements our balance sheets are very sturdy and robust as you have seen this morning we have improved our solvability situation in terms of consolidated group level, but also in terms of Unipol SAI. So let's say we have all the conditions that we have met in order to meet the business plan, which is the accumulated distribution of 600 million euros over three years. We will pay 200 this year. Well, we're still going through a special situation. because all of the obligations from the regulators still depend on COVID-19. Now, together with regulators, once again, we will share opinions, and we will do this as soon as the regulator confirms that, let's say, the high-risk situation, which is what we have today, has gone away. So in a few words, in a nutshell, we will keep into our provisions or funds all the profits we would like to distribute because they are included into the 2019-2021 business plan. So we will do this as soon as the regulator says that conditions or general conditions are met, but also the group conditions are met to do so. As for Unipol SAE, once again, we talked about our opinion on Unipol SAE, and we decided to keep the payout unchanged, which is what we approved in the previous financial year. Now, this year, I mean, the profits in terms of GAAP are now much better, so this is why we increased from 16 to 19 cents. So, once again, the payout is unchanged. Once again, we have maintained the same payout for UnipoSci. This is the previous year. And then the year, so once again, based on the program for Unipo Group, you have the annual dividend or 33% of accumulated profits over the past two years. So if you take into account the so-called macro lesion table, which is your question number three. Let me give the floor to Matteo for further insights. Elena, as for the macro lesion table, the current situation is as follows. You know that the Italian Economic Development Ministry has recently came up with a presidential decree for macro lesions, I mean more than 9%. Basically, there's a final consultation. We also have the so-called state council and the presidential decree. So, once again, for the time being, I mean, well, we don't know exactly when it will be enforced. Now, based on our assessments, there are no major changes in terms of our forecasts concerning the cost, I mean, the additional cost versus our current forecast. you know, payment practices. Maybe the only uncertainty is the fact that there may be the so-called psychological damage which has to be quantified, but in our opinion, it will not impact our, let's say, payment or reimbursement practices, okay? So this is the only update I can share with you right now.

Okay, thank you.

Next question is from Alberto Villa from Intermonte, please. Good afternoon. I also have three questions. Question number one, considering the recent fluctuations of rates, what do you think about the investment profitability levels in 2021? Do you think there will be some adjustments to the investment policy? after the de-risking and diversification policies throughout 2020. So have you concluded, I mean, that phase? And if so, what about your, let's say, management of 2021 in terms of expected profitability but also asset allocation? Second question, can I have an update on the fact that the bank insurance scope is now becoming bigger? after you know acquiring the uh i mean um subsidiaries from ubi do you have some extra details extra color about this ubi move because i mean some time ago it was impossible to have some detailed information maybe today you have more insights so do you know how i mean the scope will look like so will it become bigger that's for sure The third question is a possible comment, if at all possible, on some rumors on possible M&As in the banking sector. Now, because you are the biggest, I mean, shareholder of a bank, which is often mentioned in the list of the, well, potential M&A banks list, so what is your What are your expectations concerning possible M&A business, if you will, in the banking industry? Thank you. Thank you so much. As for question number one, Alberto, now, question number one was on the rate changes and the changes to the asset allocation, AA. You know that starting from the beginning of age two last year, we have started changing our AA because we want to reduce our exposure to Italian BTPs. And as you said, we want to diversify towards a component of portfolio, which is basically 50% on GOVIs concerning the core area. So basically Germany, France, and the core countries. The other part has to do with the credit markets. if you will, on the middle top rating level, because the aim here is to match the benchmark portfolio based on which we calculate the volatility adjustment. We also have a very small residual component, much smaller than the first one and the second one, having to do with real assets, so basically infrastructures, renewable energies. within the green investment plan, which, as you know, we have started. This is part of our business plan. Now, we are in an advanced phase because, as you must have seen, our exposure objective was 40% to Italian GOVIs, so we closed the year with 42% market values. So please consider that the excellent performance of GOVIs increases the value of the securities. So the value is now much higher than it was when we started planning this operation. So these financial moves help us speed up this operation. As I said before, we are almost at the end of this operation. We just have 2% points in terms of Govi's exposure, which is basically nothing. So once again, this is why I can tell you we have completed the revision and optimization operation of asset allocation. So this being said, I do expect rates to stay low for quite a long time. Well, for 2021, throughout 2021. So we do not expect any change. We do not expect any change either to our asset allocation policy because it goes without saying that it gives the benefits maybe not to the absolute value of solvency, which is what we got at the end of the year, but it is good for the volatility of own funds in terms of market variations that we may bump into or go through in the next months or quarters. Just to give you an example, end of 2019, on a group level, our sensitivity to Italian GOP is out of 100 basis points, so we had 26 points solvency. Today we have 20 solvency points. So this means we have reduced our exposure to volatility by 30%. So this is the logical move based on this that we carried out as a variation of the asset allocation.

I think we have reached our target levels. As for your second question, so the bank assurance or the UBI operation.

We don't have details about this operation, not yet, because, you know, this phase, I mean, the acquisition will be done during 2021.

So before doing this,

I think that, you know, at the end of the month of February, if I'm not mistaken, there will be the real migration operation acquired by BPER. So the customers, I mean, that BPER has just acquired from UBI. So only later, in the second stage, we will define what to do with Banca Intesa. Intesa has purchased, I mean, all of the, you know, joint ventures. So 100% of joint ventures that UBI had with Aviva and Cattolica. So, as you know, we will get one third of their portfolio, as you know, because basically we will take, you know, the portfolio having to do with those customers who will migrate onto the BPER platform. Now, in general, but once again, this is very, you know, rough, unrefined data. so we will get basically 10 billion euros insurance provisions or reserves for the live business and as for the live business once again you know they are working i mean on the final results but you know 2020 is a very unique year so back to 2019 that the business or the collection was included between 1.3 and 1.5 billion euros for the so-called ordinary damages. Of course, I'm still talking about the live business. I don't have the real figures concerning the non-live business, but this is maybe not really interesting because as for the BPER customers, I mean, we will apply our own strategy. So anyway, if you consider what the UBI was doing, I mean, the figure here is quite small. In our opinion, the key major interesting potential is on the non-life business. But of course, in that case, we need to have a new product system, if you will, to do so. And we think we do have this kind of possibility or skills. So the potential still has to be assessed. This is sort of building something from scratch. We will improve or apply our strategies, products, and procedures. Once again, in a preliminary way, I would say that this operation will have an impact which is around five solvency points. This is what will happen in terms of consolidated solvency. We're talking about group-level solvency, consolidated solvency. Once again, five solvency points. So the last question was on possible M&As in the banking business. Well, I keep saying that... So I keep saying, and by the way, this is to, you know, to connect, to echo the previous question. So BP is about ready to, almost ready to migrate the customers getting from UBI. This is not at the end of a pathway. Well, this is the beginning because, of course, after the migration, we will start with the real business, which is, you know, the integration of this new world into the BPER world. Of course, I'm talking about the employees. I'm talking about the staff that will be included into the BPER world together with, you know, customers that will be taken care of by BPER. So this bank, BPER, is now busy. So, of course, they are working – in this kind of, you know, discontinuity situation, an extraordinary one-off situation. And, of course, this will characterize all of the work by BPER throughout the entire financial year. And do not forget that, you know, 2021 won't be, again, an ordinary year. And, well, even more so, I mean, in the banking business, even more in the banking business than in the insurance business because of the consequences of the pandemic. Now, I know that the vaccination campaign will speed up, but of course, I'm sure, well, we know that 2021 will be characterized by, let's say, non-ordinary or extraordinary situations, which is, by the way, exactly what we told you, you know, at the end of last year, and all the, I would say, cautious attitude that we have implemented onto the 2020 financial statements, because we don't think we will go back to you know a new normal or a new economic normal in 2021 so BPER plan is really very clear among other things by the way BPER also has a final deadline so the current you know board of directors is about I mean to well expire I mean in the month of April so in two months they will have new directors in the board. So, of course, it is not in these months that BPER can carry out an extraordinary operation. It is not at the right time, absolutely not. Well, we also think that there's a consolidation of the banking business. Now, this consolidation in the banking business is now slower, if you will, than the insurance business. So again, the banking business has to catch up. Of course, there will be consolidations, so MNAs, and there are different options on the market today. In my opinion, you have to take your time and you also have to consider you know, the conditions of every single banking group. So, this is what's happening to BP ER today. Now, as shareholders, we are still, let's say, listening to what's happening on the market, looking at the market in order to create value and something that, you know, does good to our investments. So, we will do what, you know, will make us stronger deeply rooted with major economies of scale. So, of course, we are, you know, looking at the window. And then we are not only a financial, you know, partner, but we also are an industrial partner. So, Unipol is taking, you know, notes or, you know, ideas or proposals. So, the management of BPER may want to share ideas with us. And, of course, we need to assess, you know, how good that operation is in terms of financial business, but also in terms of the industrial business, because, you know, every single operation may, you know, bring about this kind of advantage to Unipol Group. Once again, BPER, together with Banca Popolare di Sondra, is one of our partners in the bank assurance business. So we may want to change the BPER scope, maybe, you know, merger with BP ER so it is up to us to take into account to assess which kind of returns so how interesting you know these opinions are with a different bank assurance our channel now considering our size you know that we are one of the leading groups in Italy in terms of the you know banking business so we are shareholders in the banking business so of course We need to, well, distribute or sell our products. Well, I guess this is one of the highlights and key points of the Unipol's industrial strategy. Once again, we are, you know, looking around us. We are willing to accept value-creating opportunities, something that also has a major positive impact on the industrial structure of Unipol Group. Thank you so much. Just a follow-up on the first question. Matteo, can you tell us about the investments on live and non-live business? In terms of rates, I mean. Now, on the non-live, the reinvestment rates are around 50 BPS. So, you can take this part of credit So in some cases, you also obtain some liquidity prices or premiums. Then we also have a small part, as I said before, having to do with real assets. This gives you the opportunity to have some enhancements on one European core component. If you consider the ratio, I mean, four or five years, well, you are negative in that case. As for the life business, we are close to 100 basis points. So I'm sure you understand that today on the traditional life policies world, our strategy is to have a cash flow matching, which is actually a real matching, so that we have to keep the reinvestment flows at a minimum. Because, of course, we don't want to reduce the profitability level of the segregated accounts. Thank you so much. The next question is from the conference in English from Peter Elliott of Kepler.

Yeah, thank you very much. So I have a couple of questions on solvency, first of all. And I was wondering if you could explain why the required capital has increased so much across the fourth quarter. So for Unipol's side, it went from 3.2 to 3.5 across Q4. I was hoping you could explain that. And then, I mean... Obviously, you've got a very high solvency ratio at the moment. Now is the time to be prudent. But just looking into the longer term, I'm wondering if you can give hints as to how that strong solvency position could be used. Does it offer you any optionality? And then on the sensitivity, you very kindly gave the sensitivity of Unipol Grupo to BTP spreads. Could you also give the sensitivity of Unipol Psi? And then if I could just ask two questions on the underwriting results. If I look at the expense ratio in Q4, it looked like it was about six percentage points higher than usual. I know there's normally some seasonality there, but it seems quite high. I was just wondering if you could explain what happened. And I was wondering if you could also say what the reserve releases were.

Thank you very much. Thank you for your questions.

Now, S4, well, the reasons why, I mean, you know, the solvency capital requirement, the SCCR has gone up in Q4, as you said. Well, this is due to the fact that in Q4 there was, on average, an increase of the spread level on our investments, so on our securities or, let's say, the packages of our GOVIs. So that's the reason why. Today, the spread has dropped a lot in the month of January and beginning of February. thanks to the great expectations of the new government. But as you know, Q4 2020 was characterized by the sort of the beginning of the instability of our government that led, you know, to Prime Minister Conte, you know, leaving the government. And so the spread changed versus the previous Q. But also on the corporate securities, So the spread increase on corporate products generated an increase of the calculation of the spread level of the Italian securities. So this is basically the reason why SCR level went up in Q4. Let's say market risk in a nutshell.

Now on a long-term basis,

How can we use this access of capital that we have? Well, I have to say that, unfortunately, the solvency metrics are very volatile. By the way, as Mr. Villa said before, we have adopted some investment policies, or let's say de-risking policies. aiming at reducing the volatility of solvency. But you have to remember that solvency, once again, is a specific metric, and it is absolutely volatile, much more volatile than other metrics, in order to calculate the same levels, but in the banking industry. So this means that we have buffers, capital buffers, that we have to comply with, which are much higher just because volatility is higher. So once again, it goes without saying that if A is high, B is also high. So let's say we don't do any long-term plan. And, you know, if you do this kind of plans in a very uncertain phase, I mean, with the pandemic, you know, with the, well, Italian, but also global economic situation, if you do plans now, it wouldn't be a great idea so we do not plan how to use you know the excess capital for some you know presets or predefined aim no we don't do so we have this very high you know capital level because if you have some opportunities well we know we have the money to take advantage of those opportunities As you've seen before, I mean, there was the BPER opportunity, so we supported BPER so that we can, you know, widen our scope or even our bank assurance portfolio and our insurance product distribution network.

I think that, you know, this SCR level is a consequence

of solvency I mean we just don't want to grow it because we have a specific objective we don't have any you know capital redistribution or capital payments objective well you know some people may have some doubts you know because you know they say well you have such a high level of solvency so this is something that you may want to do no way the regulator as you know does not even include to do this in such a specific phase but we don't even ask the question because we really want to have a robust solvency level because once again this allows us to take advantage of possible strategic opportunities as for Unipol group sensitivity level okay Matteo please Unipol SAI sorry not the group Unipol SAI well Unipol SAI has I mean, in terms of Italian gobies, as I said before, when I talked about the group, so we had 26 points, now we have 20. Well, UnipoSci had 37 points in 2019, and, well, lending figure is 23. So also on, you know, UnipoSci, there's a major reduction in terms of the gobies exposure. You also had some short technical questions, one on the expense ratio of the fourth quarter that was going up, so higher versus a seasonal trend. So you're right, there's a seasonality effect in the last quarter, in quarter four. Now, this year, this is a little stronger because the expense ratio is now calculated not onto the gross premium, but So on this kind of premiums, we have the impact of the reserve preservation that we have in order to pay the so-called . So we pay one month's worth of cover back to our customers. So people have used the vouchers, and this is why this provision was 100 million in September. It is now 150 million euros. And of course, this reduces gross premium, and it increases expense ratio. So this is, in a nutshell, the technical explanation of the reason of the higher level of the expense ratio. There was also a question on how to release or when to release these provisions. Now, this year, this was basically in line with last year. The impact is, let's say, 7% of the premiums. So we have 550 million euros in total, of which 180 on motor and the rest on the non-motor business. So once again, back to, you know, reserves or provisions. As Matteo said, now in terms of, you know, the release of reserves, well, the situation or the level was almost like last year. but actually we have increased the level of general provisioning. This release is just a small part of what we have saved on the paid amount. We have paid the previous year's claims by saving around 50%, a little bit less than 50% of the motor total product liability and we have saved more than 65% as for the general product liability.

That's great. Thank you very much.

I have to say that the part that we have written into the financial statements is a very small part. And by the way, you will find this also in the excess of capital that has to do with provisioning. So just onto this item, we have more than 1.5 billion euros of capital excess that has to do to the provisioning excess based on solvency. and compare that to the financial statements. I also would like to give you further information on the expense ratio. So because we want to be very prudent and cautious, Peter, if you look at the premium provisions, you will see the 140 million euros so 140 million euros representing the fact that we decided i mean to offer customers who hadn't used the own maze initiative vouchers you know the one month uh back to customers, one month of motor liability premium. So this is an initiative that we launched at the beginning of April last year. So of course, we need to wait until the beginning of April this year, which is the deadline. But we decided to extend this to all the year. So for 2021, for those customers that for any reason haven't used the voucher you know when purchasing the new policy last year so once again they will be able to use the voucher this year so the amount of this you know relief that we offer our customers plus the provisioning which is basically 85 percent that is our renewal average renewal rate of the people who haven't yet used the voucher from January to April well this is worth around 140 million euros so this increases the premium provisioning and of course it has this sort of an optical effect on the ratio as Matteo told you okay that's great thank you very much Next question is from Andrea Lizzi from the Italian conference. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for the call. I have one question on the impact in terms of PNPL, because you have sold Torre Velasca, so the building in Milan. And what about the net financial position, Unipol and De Gea? So there's a positive surprise on the Unipol side dividend, even if the payout is unchanged. So can you do better than the plan, or is it too early to say? Back to question number one on the Torre Velasca building in Milan. The accounting effect is worth $80 million. on the IAS metrics, so on the consolidated. Sorry, it's 70 million instead of 80 in terms of IAS metrics. And the 80 million euros, if you consider GAAP. And of course, I guess it would be into the accounts of Q1 this year, because we have already carried out, I mean, the transfer of the building. But This is a national heritage building, so we have to wait for the reaction of the central government. So there should be no, let's say, special requirements from the central government. But once again, because of the national heritage protection, we need to wait for some weeks for the final, let's say, accounting. Net financial position Unipol end of December so Unipol SPA has 3.3 billion euros liabilities including the green bonds that we have placed on the market at the beginning of November there was 1 billion euros green bond as for the assets the total is billion euros. So this is our liquid position. So the net financial position is 1.5 billion euros for Unipol Group. As for your last question, so the question was on the dividends now. I'm sure that we will improve, I mean we will do better than the planned targets for Unipol SAI and the Unipol SAI dividend as well. We will manage this objective, keeping an eye on solvency and keeping another eye on prudence, caution. So let's say, don't consider in a very linear way the dividend that we have paid this year because this is the fruit of the payout considering the GAAP results of Unipol, but it is not a target that we want to maintain. So let me remind you that considering the plan, our objective is 1.3 billion euros dividends that we have accumulated for three years with Unipol's side. So 1.3 billion euros means a dividend that went up gradually so from 14 cents then 15 or even 16 cents some time ago now we have paid 16 cents last year 19 cents this year so cumulatively we have 1 billion so of course we will do better than this but please you don't have to consider that 19 cents as the new floor from which we will start to calculate the dividends so this is not the right base let's say that the floor is always 16 cents more or less of course well it depends on what we will be able to do this year thank you Next question is from the English conference from Soudar Shambhutala, Societe Generale, please.

Hi, good afternoon. Three questions from my side, please. The first one is on the holding in Unipol SAI. So the Unipol Group's holding in Unipol SAI has not increased in Q4. Any particular reason for that, or should we consider the 85% level as a stable level going forward? Second question is, could you provide some color on the Italian P&C market and in particular the competition that you're seeing in the motor business and are there any further pressure for premium rebates? On the non-motor side, are you seeing a recovery in the demand? My third question is more of a clarification on the dividends from Unifor, Unipol Group. You've said that the dividend that you've announced today is agreed upon by the regulator. What is the timeframe for payment of that dividend? Should we expect that that dividend will be paid in May once it is approved by the board? Thank you.

thank you now as for the shares we have in only post size so the holding as you said um as i said in the past you know we don't have a specific you know um target um you know we had 80 percent holding uh we now have 85 as you said because you know um when i see some misalignments of the value of ONIPOSAI versus the potential value that ONIPOSAI may have. Well, in that case, we buy shares because we think that this is the best investment possible. Because in our opinion, you know, this is, you know, a mispriced and this is why we buy in that case. This is why we have now 85% instead of 80%. And the situation is fine now, so for the time being, we do not consider changing our position or our holding, as I said, in Unipol's side. Let me answer the third question, and then question number two, so the competition on the motor business, Matteo will give you a reply. So as for the payments of dividends, so this is the, let's say, ordinary business for us. This means that there will be a shareholders meeting in the month of April, And then we will pay the dividends in the month of May. This will happen for Unipol, but also for Unipol SAI. Okay, then question number two on the motto business competition. Well, you know, the 2020 was a really, really special year because there's been a drop of, you know, frequencies. And then, of course, every single competitor has adopted some strategies in order to take advantage of the drop in frequency in order to gain competitive advantage. So, as you know, we did this with the so-called one month for you campaign. So, in case of renewal, we give back one month of motor cover. This means 80% reduction of the average premium. I mean, considering the percent rate of use of the vouchers and considering our retention As Carlos said before, retention is higher than 50, sorry, 85%. We have not been the only ones doing this. I mean, other competitors also did something similar, I mean, with different systems. But once again, 2020, once again, is a special year. Average premium, and understandably so, dropped quickly. There's another phenomenon on top of this, which is a little bit less visible. I mean, all the change in terms of habits of people. Of course, I'm talking about the habits of Italians and the incredibly high level of work from home or remote work. Well, this means that people just didn't use cars. This means that some people didn't buy the cover, the insurance cover for cars because it was impossible to use cars. all of this may not happen again in 2021 so of course it depends on the thought about soft lockdown which is what we have now here and again it goes without saying that this is not a very strict lockdown just like the one we had at the beginning of 2020 but this is not a new normal so this is not as normal as it was in 2019 So probably prices will keep going down slightly because I don't think we have the conditions now to see a change of trend in the pricing. But once again, the competition level on the market is still there. I think that the big question mark, as I said before, is the duration, the real actual duration of this, you know, soft lockdown phase that, you know, will go hand in hand with with the end of the vaccination campaign and the very final end of the epidemic. Just one second, back to one of your questions. So if you meant, I mean, the dividend that we have set aside instead of the dividend we paid, well, I just repeat what I said before. So let's say that we keep it there, we store it, because we need to wait for the regulators. I mean, regulators will tell us when conditions are definitely met. In that case, we will be able to pay it. And, you know, my opinion is that because we are still, you know, in the pandemic, so there's a pandemic risk. So this means that our economy is still in an extraordinary situation, including our life, well, I don't think we need to talk about the payment of an extra dividend within, you know, 2021. So, this may happen, so this idea may be put forward only if the general economy will improve. And only if there are less, let's say, binding actions from the regulators. So once again, this may happen in the new next financial year.

Okay. Sorry, my question was relating to the regular dividend, which you already answered. Just to follow up on that, could you just sort of see where you are on the target now? I mean, the $600 million target, do you still reiterate that? Do you still stick to that? Or how do you look at that?

Yes. I mean, the target is unchanged.

So, for Unipol holding, the target is the same. So, the one you can see in the plan, which is 600 million accumulated over three years. Now, when I talked about the target, I was talking about Unipol SAE. Okay. So, in that case, we think it can be improved. Okay. And for Unipol holding, no, it is still 600, yes. Okay.

Thank you.

Mr. Chimbrey, ladies and gentlemen, we have no other questions for the time being. Thank you. Well, thank you for listening. Thank you for participating in this call. Thank you for your attention and for your questions. I hope to have you at the next conference presenting our quarterly results at the beginning of May. Thank you so much. Enjoy the rest of the afternoon. Thank you. Bye-bye.