Unipol Grupo Spa

Good afternoon, this is the Coruscant Conference Operator. Welcome and thank you for joining the Unipol Full Year 2025 Preliminary Results Conference Call. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Matteo Laterza, CEO of Unipol, for a brief introduction. Please, go ahead, sir.

Good morning. Thank you to all of you for participating to this call. Before opening, as usual, the floor to the question, let me make some remarks on the number that we disclosed this morning. We closed the first year of the industrial plan, achieving results mainly above our targets in all the principal industrial and financial sectors. First of all, in P&C, as you have seen, premium performed very well, both in motor and in non-motor, where in non-motor, as usual, the main driver was the health insurance, where we are following a very solid and important trend in the Italian market. The combined ratio closed at 92.9%, that is in line with our target, but I think it's important to underline once again the prudence that we decided to adopt in assessing our technical reserve, and in particular in defining the loss component related to NATCAT event in the line of business, which explains in the big part the impact of NatCat event of 9 percentage point in a year where, as a matter of fact, was quite benign in terms of NatCat. In life, we had a very strong performance in terms of premium, driven both by agents, distribution network, and bank assurance and at the same time we reached our target of new business value and contractual service margin so also in life we performed very well in terms of investments we had a very robust contribution coming from the ordinary yield, which means coupons and dividends coming from our investments and it has been a very important driver for the result that we achieved in 2025. As a result of all these items, we reported a consolidated result, as you have seen, of more than 1.5 billion euros. which reflect, of course, a positive impact, also the positive impact coming from the participation to the tender offer that Peter launched in Banca Pua di Sondrio. But much more important for us, and you had to focus on the insurance group net result that was above 1.2 billion, because it represents the contribution coming from the insurance business, and it gives to you the idea in a sort of sense of the cash remittance of insurance. the group. We think this number is very robust in terms of quality of all the items that contributed to produce this number and this is the reason why we decided to pay and to propose a dividend of €1.12 per share, which means more than 70% of the insurance group We think it is a very solid number. that can be considered a floor in terms of dividend that can be paid also for the year that we last in the present industrial plan. It is a very solid number also considering the very strong solvency that we reported, 233%, that as you know, is burdened by the very expensive contribution coming from our banking states. If you look at the number of the insurance group, we are at 281%, which is a very solid number. And again, the main contribution to the solvency number comes from the organic capital generation that we achieved in 2025, that once deducted the 804 million of dividend is close to 500 million, that is more or less half of the net capital generation target of all the industrial plan. So summing up all these numbers, we are above the first-year KPIs in terms of industrial and financial numbers. Of course, we are still in the first year of the industrial plan. We have still two years ahead of us. But our commitment, as we said, when we disclosed and we published industrial plan is to deliver and hopefully over-deliver the number that we have as KPIs and that we disclosed one year ago. Having said that, with Enrico San Pietro, we are open to answer to your questions.

Anyone else? Who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on their touch-tone telephone. To remove yourself from the question queue, please press star and 2. Please pick up the receiver when asking questions. Anyone who has a question may press star and 1 at this time. The first question is from Thomas Ognet, due of Kepler-Chevreux. Please go ahead.

Hello and thank you a lot for taking my questions. The first one would be on dividend distribution. As you said, you moved the payout to around 71% of insurance group earnings, which I believe surprised the market. But how should we see it going forward? Also, given that you have had a very strong capital generation, a lot of excess of capital, why shouldn't we consider 70% the new structural payout? But even if we consider the Euro 0.12 dividend per share would be already well above the cumulative guidance of the industrial plan. So perhaps you can either give us a bit more color on the payout or on the cumulative guidance. The second question is on technical profitability. It was very strong, but with, as you said, slightly higher nut-cut load in non-motor. So my question is, are you running with additional prudency buffer, and why is that? you were already very, very prudent. And the last one on solvency, yes, there was a very strong factor coming from organic capital generation, but part of this strong number also seemed due to lower SCR. Can you explain us the dynamics there? Was it all due to BIPA? Thank you.

Thank you to you. First of all, in terms of distribution, as I said, we look very closely to the insurance group result because gives to you the idea of the cash remittance of the group. 71% is a very solid number and we think that going forward we are able to consider it as a sort of floor in terms of dividends also for the next couple of years. as you can see it is above the target that we disclosed in the industrial plan and so consequently concerning at least the dividend we are working on an over delivery compared to the 2.2 billion of dividend accumulated in the industrial plan You talk about excess capital. I don't think it is excess capital. I think that we must be always in the condition to have capital and to raise capital when there are good market opportunities to do it, because once you need it, you must have in your balance sheet the capital. to finance the growth in the business in which you want to grow, like bank assurance or health insurance, or for whatever opportunity that you can have in the future. Because when you have the opportunity, you must have also the capital. It is not... suggestible on our point of view to take in consideration the opportunity without having the capital in your balance sheet. And this is the reason why I don't consider it excess capital, but only a good buffer that we can have in order to face any kind of Also the fact that we are in a very good situation in terms of performance of financial market and consequently you can also have in the future a risk-off period for financial market that can have also a negative implication on your solvency. Concerning solvency, you said correctly that the main driver is the organic capital generation. There has been something also in the reduction of SCR. mainly driven by some change in the solvency capital requirement coming from the banking business in the final quarter of the year. But mainly... The increase in the solvency is due to the organic capital generation, and there is also a positive contribution from the economic variance as a consequence of the fact that financial markets performed very well. On the technical profitability, I said that we were very prudent both in motor and in non-motor, but I leave Enrico to elaborate on it.

Good morning, Tommaso. As far as NatCat is concerned, we decided to take a very prudent approach on what is, as we all know, a very volatile risk. So basically we calculated the risk adjustment on this specific risk taking the distribution curve of the expected loss and put at the 92nd percentile the figures that amounts around 220 million euros of additional risk adjustment. This is probably the most visible prudent move, but the overall technical profitability was very good both on motor and non-motor business.

Thank you.

The next question comes from Andrea Lisi with Equita. Please go ahead.

Hi, thank you for taking my questions. The first question comes back on the solvency which increased significantly in the quarter. We know that then you issued an 81 at the beginning of the year and so this will further increase the capital position. Just to understand what are you planning to do with such a level of capital, I understood that it is not considered excess capital for you because you won't have a wide buffer, but also to understand if you currently see M&A's opportunities in the sector or other ways to deploy to accelerate organic growth. And related to that, we have seen that you already achieved 0.5 billion of excess organic capital generation. It is half of your business plan target. Can we consider meeting that to be distributed to shareholders at some point? The other question is on... On the evolution of the business, we have seen a really good dynamic on non-motor premium, while a bit of deceleration on motor. I think that is mostly related to a comparison basis, but just to have a bit more insight about what are you observing in the industry currently. Thank you.

Thank you to you Andrea and yes we should restrict the tier 1 in January that of course strengthens further our capital position today. As I said before when there are opportunities in the market we tend to take advantage of them. The credit market situation at the end of last year, beginning of this, is very positive. We were able to issue a receipt at year one where we had plenty of room of computability. It was executed at a very moderate cost, 6% of coupon. And we took advantage of it. And of course we have a very strong capital position and it will be used to finance our opportunities of organic growth in excess of our assumption of the industrial plan. You know that we are growing very fast in health insurance, in bank assurance, in There are no M&A transactions on the table, but once you have an opportunity in the future, as I said before, you must have the capital to exploit it. And finally, we are in a very positive situation in terms of financial market, but you never know. The geopolitical situation is very uncertain today. and we must prepare ourselves to the worst and this is the reason why we decided to take advantage also following a lot of insight that we received from our investors to take advantage of the very positive situation of financial market. This is not excess capital, so of course the redistribution of capital to the shareholders is not an alternative for us at the moment. We recently raised one billion and the reason why we did it are the ones that I mentioned I mentioned before. Concerning the trend in P&C, before leaving the floor to Enrico, as I said before, the main driver is health insurance, but all the line of business grew in the P&C area, both in motor and in non-motor, of course, our commitment is to combine this strategy of growth of premium with our commitment in maintaining a decent level of technical profitability in all the line of business. But on this I leave, I let Enrico to elaborate on it.

Okay, so as Matteo just said, we had growth in all our business lines. Of course, in non-motor, the main driver of growth for us, but also for the market, is health, that is growing double-digit in this period, and in which we are market leader. And we can add also that property business is growing, property business is growing for the market and also for us, There is, of course, an impact related to the compulsory net cut cover for Italian companies, and this is something that is different. driving growth on all our distribution channels, so good growth on property for Unipol and Agency Network, but also on ARCA, which means Bitcoin Network. As far as motor is concerned, we have a growth of 2.6% in motor third-party liability that is the result of an increase above 3% in the average premium and a very small decrease in the number of contracts. and a solid growth in motor adder damages, 6.7, that is due both to a price effect and also an increase in the demand of motor adder damages cover.

Thank you.

The next question is from Michael Hartner of Darenberg. Please go ahead.

Thank you very much. I had four, please. Two of them on motor, one on health, and one on the CSM. On motor, my first question is on the frequency benefit, the 12 bits, which you mentioned on the slide. I just wanted to understand... How to measure that? It sounds big, but I don't know what the base number is. Is it like a 5% improvement or 10%? In other words, 12 divided by what? And maybe you can give a feel for how sustainable this is. In other words, is it structural or cyclical? Then on motor pricing, I wonder if you can give us a quick update of where we are now. On health... Just to understand the business better, can you apply what the product is? It's just to understand what the risk is. The feeling I have is it's an annual policy. It's not a lifetime policy, and therefore the pricing therefore resets, and it gives cover for hospital and medical care. I mean, it's a fairly standard thing, but just to understand. And then the final thing, you did mention it, but I just wondered whether you can give a little bit more color. The CSM is up, I think, 15%. A large chunk of that is the economic variance. And I just wondered if you can give us a bit of color of where it's coming from. Thank you so much.

Yes, on CSM, I will answer and then I will leave it to Enrico to answer on motor and health. The increase in CSM is driven also by the economic variance. Of course, the contribution to economic variance comes from the change in the assumption in the trend of financial markets. Concerning the solvency, I said that also in this case economic variance gave a positive contribution as a consequence of the fact that equity market, credit market, the spread of government bonds narrowed versus the boom. And as a consequence of that, we had a very positive contribution coming from the economic variance. Also in the case of CSM, we had a positive contribution coming from the... trend of financial market and in particular the contribution come from the narrowing of the spread, the contribution of equity and consequently from the market value of the financial guarantee.

I understand, thank you.

Hi Michael, so as you have seen we had very good results in terms of technical profitability as far as motor business is concerned. As I told a few minutes ago, there was a relevant contribution in this improvement related to motor adder damages classes that is not only growing at a quite fast pace but also improving the technical profitability since of course 2025 was a very benign year for NatCat events but also for the overall business line. But also in motor-tour party liability we were able to improve our loss ratio. The loss ratio has improved since basically we were able to offset the increase of the average cost of the claim with the increase of the average premium. And we can consider about your question that increase in loss frequency, the improvement in loss frequency, sorry, was something that is explaining the... the improvement in the current year loss ratio in motor to party liability. We also have to add that in motor business there was a more positive evolution of prior year reserves compared to 2024. So a couple of points are about this issue in which in 2024 we suffered a little bit in motor rider damages because our reserves of the NatCat event of summer 2023 were not perfect and so we didn't have the positive evolution we usually have in this kind of business. So this is about the overall result in motor but if you We can go to the second one. The second question is about motor pricing. The market had an overall average increase of prices related to what happened on Milan court schemes for permanent disability indemnisation. Now we are entering a new phase in which prices are still going up, but at a very slow pace. So basically, my opinion is that We are in a very good situation. Our profitability is above our expectation in the strategic plan, so we are now below the 95% of combined ratio that is our target, and I expect that in 2026 price increase continue to be quite low because also the other players were able to recover profitability. As far as health insurance is concerned, there are different kind of product line we offer. The main one is related to corporate big businesses. So Unisalute was set up 30 years ago, 1995, believing that the Italian market will need some health insurance cover to have with a faster way services that the national health system is more and more in trouble in delivering. So what's happening is that for many years, this was the main business line for health, for Unisalute, so big agreements with trade unions, but also big corporations and funds. And we were able to grow this way. We are still growing. Now, of course, there is also a relevant price effect on that because the business the loss frequency is increasing and we are one step ahead increasing prices and changing conditions to keep the profitability good enough but in recent years there is another relevant growth engine in the individual offer both with bank assurance and our agency network with our individual products that cover basically all your possible health needs, so diagnostic, examination, visits for specialist, doctor specialist, and of course also if you need surgery or other medical services. So the big part of the portfolio is still corporate business, but individual business is growing at a very fast pace.

The next question comes from Gianluca Ferrari of Mediobanca. Please go ahead.

Yes, hi, good afternoon. Sorry to come back on solvency and economic variances. I was trying to reconcile the 15 points increase thanks to the economic variances. And as you mentioned, BTP boom spread going down, but actually they went down 50 basis, which means 5.5 points if I look at your sensitivities. equities app could have added another couple of points, so I can reconcile only half of these 15 points. So if you can help us with all the moving parts to rebuild this impact. The second is I cannot find anymore the PVNBP and the new business value in the presentation in the press release. I was wondering if you don't consider these KPIs any relevant. And if there are just somewhere else, if you can provide us the numbers. The third is some write-downs in Q4. I think it is, as usual, linked to some realignment of real estate assets. But if you can give us some color on what are these write-downs in Q4 in the P&C segment. And I cannot avoid asking you the hot questions of the moment, which is about autonomous driving and AI, how these two factors can change your industry going forward if you see only threats or also opportunities. Thank you.

Thank you to you Gianluca. Concerning the economic variance, this is the breakdown of the economic variance versus the number at September 25. We had a positive contribution in the whereabout of 300 million plus. where we had a positive contribution of 240 million coming from the spread. The 200 million coming from equity plus our non-insurance stakes. and a negative contribution coming from interest rates of 131 million. Maybe you were misleaded by the fact that there were also a negative contribution contribution coming from interest rates. Then if you want to have more color on that, you can ask our IR to have more color on it. Sure, thank you. The other question was the... The new business value. The new business value is a very important KPIs for us. It is not a secondary tier two industrial CPI. I said this in the in the introduction to the results. We achieved a new business value that is in line with our target and for us It is important because you know that in life it is not so important on our point of view to be number one in terms of premium collected, but it is much more important the quality of the premium that you collect. And a proxy of this quality is the new business value that is of course strongly related to the contractual service margin that you produce with the new production and it is a number where we reached our target overall. I have to say that in 2025 we grew in life premium more than 20% also because of the two very important and very big contracts in the pension funds. Pension funds is a very interesting business but with a very low profitability in terms of new business margin. So what we have to do going forward is to work more on the high profitability line of business like term premium, annual premium, where I think that we have room for improvement. Finally, on AI, autonomous driving, there is also some study, if I remember well, concerning the AI applied to the brokerage business that had a negative impact on the performance of the sector. We are discussing for a very long time on the implication of the autonomous driving on the motor TPL business. Of course, there is this As usual, there are threats, but also opportunities. I'm not very worried about it, both concerning the autonomous car and the use of artificial intelligence for the brokerage, but on this maybe Enrico is much more skilled to answer to this issue than me, so I leave the floor to him. Thank you. The real estate... Yes, we took the opportunity to make some provision on the real estate portfolio, above all in some of the buildings that we have. In particular, there are the headquarters that we have in Milano-San Donato. There is a tower that is not used as instrumental but is rented. and this rent has got to maturity and we are looking for a new tenant and in the meantime we took this opportunity to restate the value of the tower to the fair value of the asset and we took a charge in this case of 20 million. On top of that we did other restatement of a little bit less than 10 million but are very fragmented in a lot of buildings. The main one is the one that I mentioned.

Hi Gianluca, so let me add something about both autonomous driving and AI on autonomous driving. I remember we were able to organize in 2015 an international congress in Rome that was named Mobility 2025. So international experts coming from USA and also from Europe about what would be the evolution of autonomous driving and what can we see now after 10 years and is that this phenomenon was slower than expected of course is limited today to shared mobility so the Waymo taxi in San Francisco that now are expanding in other 10 cities in US that is what we understood in those period that is slower and probably strictly related to a change in the pattern of mobility so much more keen to used for shared mobility solution and not yet visible for private vehicles mobility solution so in the end we are we still are I'm really interested in this, but I see something that will have a very limited impact on our business and very, very slow impact on our business. As far as GNI is concerned, we can probably discuss about the impact on our business in terms of distribution changes. And, of course, we are interested in what's happening, but I think that the impact, the perception of this issue was really exaggerated. Basically, what is concerned is for the Italian market digital distribution that never became a real relevant distribution channel and so I don't think we'll have a visible impact on the Italian market for a very long time. On the other side, GNI is a very important new technology in which we are investing, already investing both to become more efficient, but also to be able to serve better our customers.

Brilliant, thank you.

The next question is from Elena Perini of Intesa San Paolo. Please go ahead.

Yes, thank you for taking my questions. I've got two of them and then two follow-ups. The first question is about your dividend. You mentioned the possibility of over-delivering versus your $2.2 billion accumulated target. Are you also considering the possibility of introducing potentially an interim dividend? The second question is about your combined ratio evolution. Considering that you have already overachieved compared to your target for the motor business market, do you expect the convergence to your 2027 consolidated target to be driven from by the non-motor business also considering the higher weight of higher margins businesses like the bank insurance and also the health and the How could the property business produce some noise in this? Then about the two follow-ups, I was wondering whether the pension fund mandates, which impacted the first quarter for life, were limited to the first quarter or... Did you have something also in the final part of the year? And then on the real estate, I was wondering whether the write-offs impacted only the other sector or in some aspects also in the P&C business. Thank you.

Thank you, Elena. Concerning the dividend, we said quite clearly that 800 million is for us a floor going forward. So we are already today in a sort of over-delivery situation. mood in the dividends. So it is not a possibility but is a thing in which we are working on. And we are in the condition to say that we can propose this number also for the next couple of years. 1.2 billion of insurance group result is a very good number, above all if you consider the quality of the number in terms of contribution coming from the technical profitability, investment income and whatever. So we are in the condition to say that 800 million is today the floor in terms of dividend payment in cash. The interim dividend, of course, it has not an economic impact, but also not only a financial one. I know that the market likes this kind of payment strategy. We have to consider if... Our bylaw, I don't think that allow us today to do it, but in the future we can, by changing the bylaw, we can think about doing it. It is not... It is not a strategy that is on the table today. I can't exclude it in the future. Concerning the combined ratio evolution, I leave the floor to Enrico, and then I will answer maybe to the other one later.

Hi Elena, so the motor combined ratio is already better than our target, but still I think it's prudent to keep the 95% combined ratio target. for the plan considering that we had a very good year for motor rather damages and also that market condition in MTPL can change in the next two years and as far as the non-motor is concerned, relevant growth both in bank assurance and in health of course is a very good news but it was already for a very big part included in our strategic plan so our aim is to grow where profitability is high and volatility is low and so both of those businesses are perfectly fit in this strategy So maybe it could be a little better, but the biggest part was already included. And the third question was about the property business. Yes, it can produce some noise because, of course, nut-cut is volatile, but we are very careful in growing in property, especially in cut-nut, very careful to avoid risk concentration, both geographical risk concentration and also peak risk concentration. Last but not least, we have a very solid reinsurance coverage, so we added to our traditional reinsurance program about the excess of lost treaties, the aggregate treaty that protects us also from frequent medium-sized events that can be below the attachment point of the reinsurance treaty in excess of loss. So it could happen, but I think in this case we will be able to deliver good results anyway.

Elena, concerning the pension funds, we had, as you said, the impact in the first quarter of the year, but also in the final quarter of the year there was an impact as well. And concerning the contractual service margin overall, The contribution to the CSM is overall coming from the pension fund is 25 million on a total of 287 million of total new production profitability. And finally, concerning the provisions, there are part in the PNC business, in particular 20 million concerning the tower in San Donato that I mentioned before, but also in PNC there are 30 million of charge that we very prudently receive booked on the financial investment in fiscal credit coming from the bonus 105%. Very prudently we decided to put this further 30 million. So total 50 million and other 10 million are in the other activities.

Okay, thank you very much.

Then there is in life also more or less 10 million coming from the integration of Kronos that, as you know, we incorporated in the final part of the year.

The next question is from Antonio Gianfrancesco of Intermonte. Please go ahead.

Good morning and thank you for taking my question two from my side. The first one is on the financial investment deals. You reported a gross financial investment yield of 5.2% in 2025 with a 4.2% running yield. So given the current rate environment and your asset allocation, how should we think about the forward-looking running yield for the next two, three years? And I was wondering if the UC scope for improvement or should we assume a sort of stabilization around current levels? And the second one for that is a follow-up on the CSM, because I understand that in 2025 there were some, let's say, one-offs, for example, Kronos integration and extremely favorable CSM. economic variances. But looking ahead, how should we think about the sustainable growth rate of the CSM? For example, 15% growth year-on-year before release could be a reasonable assumption, also considering what you said about the driver for the life premiums in the future. Thank you.

Thank you to you. Concerning the financial investment yield, looking forward, you should trust on the ordinary component of the investment yield because You never know and we never do assumption neither positive nor negative on the performance of financial markets. So we tend to assume no capital gain or capital loss coming from the mark to market of financial asset. Consequently, the 4% running yield could be assumed as a proxy also of the ordinary contribution coming from the investment. Having said that, in the history, we always succeeded in producing additional alpha uh on that uh but it is not of course a a certain event and so prudently you can you can maintain the for the four percent concerning the csm uh our target and that is the what we achieved in the past is to have a a final csm that is in line or higher than the opening csm it means that the csm creating from the new production plus the expected return that is uh a part of the organic and ordinary CSM is in line or above the CSM released. We don't consider the economic variance component because it is something that has nothing to do with the performance of the company because it is a byproduct of performance of financial market. And as you correctly said, in 2025, there was the extraordinary contribution coming from the CSM that we inherited from Kronos that is a one-off. In life, we are working on the quality of the production in order to increase the contribution coming from annual premium, terms product, and all the line of business where We can have a profitability that is a multiple of the profitability that we can have from investment product. We look forward as a consequence of that to increase the contribution coming from CSM, but it is a very long process. path that you have to follow through a strategy focused on the quality of the product, the kind of product that we distribute, the quality of the distribution with our agents that are all drivers in which we are fully committed to execute and improvement of the quality of the production in life. But in general, what we look for is to produce with the expected return more than we release.

Thank you. Very clear.

The next question is from August Markan of UBS. Please go ahead.

Hi, thanks for taking my question. My first one is on your reinsurance renewals. Some of your European peers were saying they could either get quite better terms and conditions or lower prices. So I was just wondering if you have any comments on how your renewals went. The second one is I just wanted to get your thoughts on it seems that the dividend is going to run ahead of the target. The motor combined ratio already is ahead of target. I was just wondering, have you considered internally just upgrading the 27 targets? And then finally, on capital, I think you made it quite clear that you want to be ready if there's any inorganic opportunity on the market. But my question is, if it's the case that there's no opportunities by end of the plan, would you then consider returning that capital to shareholders?

Thanks.

Okay, I'll start answering to the first question about insurance renewals. Yes. The market has evolved after a couple of years of hard market, started a new phase of softening market for insurers cover, especially of course not cut covers that accounts for the vast majority of the premium. We are paying to insure to cover our profit and loss account and our capital position. So, yesterday it was an year in which due to the improving results of the reinsurance market on a global base, but also on our homework, on our risk management activity, we were able to obtain a risk-adjusted decrease of low double-digit decrease. Of course, at the same time, there was an increase in the amount of risk we have to cover, and this partially offset this decrease in the cost of the main treatise, that is the excessive loss in property. So, for the near future, we expect that it could be another period in which if things on NatCat business continue to go this way, we could obtain a further reduction in prices and improving in condition of insurance treaties.

On the other question, again on dividends, it is not in our attitude to restate target in any way. Our commitment is in over-delivering the target. We said quite clearly several times that 800 million is... a floor so by multiplying by three 800 you can you can understand what our target is today it is not necessary to to to restate target but what is important is the substance of the concept that says that 800 is a sustainable number in our industrial plant. On the capital, I've been doing this job for more than 30 years and I have been also a portfolio manager and I did the same question several times to the CEO of the companies. Believe me, it is not a good situation being my shoes to be short of capital when you need it. So asking to restate capital to a company could be in the short term a very positive action for the stock price, but it is not a good idea in the medium-long term. Because when you are in a situation like the COVID that we had a few years ago, all the Lehman Bankers in 2008 being short of capital, It's a very awful situation for a CEO of a company, and asking for capital in a very bad situation in the financial market is not very easy. and so it is not an option for us. We are committed to use this capital in a very profitable way. It is a duty of an administrator or a CEO of a company, and this is the commitment in which I can assure that this capital will deliver a very good and satisfactory remuneration for the shareholders. Perfect. Thank you so much.

The next question is from Alessia Magni of Barclays. Please go ahead.

Hi, morning. Thank you very much. Last question for me on the others I've been asked. On capital, if you have to invest outside, so inorganically, what would be the areas of interest that you potentially look at? And would you also look for assets outside Italy? Thank you very much.

Yeah, we are interested in all the opportunities that can create value for our shareholders, of course. And in our country, there are not so many opportunities in the market, also because we are the first player in PNC. there are not so many... No opportunities at the moment to... To use the capital that we have, it doesn't mean that in the future we can have some opportunities that we can exploit in the insurance business where we have our core business. Outside the country, as we have always said, We look at all the opportunities that can create value. It is quite difficult to create synergies in the cross-border transaction, but nevertheless, and it is a commitment that we have already had in the past, we don't have a bias in an area or in another. Of course, we are interested to our core business that is PNC, and if we could have a an opportunity to uh to look at we would we would do it with uh with uh with interest at the moment there are not also in this case interesting opportunities also because uh in this moment in the other in the other area outside italy again we don't have we don't have transaction that can be, in which we can be interested to.

For any further questions, please press star and one on your telephone.

Mr. La Terza, there are no more questions registered at this time.

Thank you very much to all of you and we will see again in May for the first quarter. Thank you very much.