GEE Group Inc.

Hello and welcome to the GEE Group fiscal 2024 first quarter ended December 31st, 2023 earnings and update webcast conference call. I'm Derek Dewan, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of GEE Group. I will be hosting today's call. Joining me as a co-presenter is Kim Thorpe, our Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Thank you for joining us today. It is our pleasure to share with you GE Group's results for the fiscal 24 first quarter ended December 31, 2023, and provide you with our outlook for the remainder of the 2024 fiscal year and the foreseeable future. Some comments Kim and I will make may be considered forward-looking, including predictions, estimates, expectations, and other statements about our future performance. These represent our current judgment of what the future holds and are subject to risks and uncertainties that actual results may differ materially from our forward-looking statements. These risks and uncertainties are described below under the caption, forward-looking statements, safe harbor. And in Tuesday's earnings press release and Our most recently formed 10Q, 10K, and other SEC filings under the captions cautionary statement regarding forward-looking statements and forward-looking statements, safe harbor. We assume no obligation to update statements made on today's call. During this presentation, we will also talk about some non-GAAP financial measures, reconciliations and explanations of the non-GAAP measures, we will address today are included in the earnings press release. A presentation of financial amounts and related items, including growth rates, margins, and trend metrics, are based upon rounded amounts. The purposes of this call and all amounts and percentages and the related items presented are approximations accordingly. For your convenience, our prepared remarks for today's call are available in the Investor Center of our website, www.geegroup.com. We face significant difficulties in the fiscal 2024 first quarter ended December 31st, 2023, mainly stemming from economic and labor market instability and uncertainty. Economic and market conditions for us and our industry began to worsen earlier in calendar 2023 following a COVID-19 bounce in 2022, and it worsened even more in the second half of calendar 2023, leading to the significant decline in results from the comparable fiscal 2023 first quarter ended December 31, 2022. Consolidated revenues were 30.6 million for the fiscal 2024 first quarter, Gross profit and gross margin were 9.7 million and 31.8% respectively for the fiscal 2024 first quarter. Consolidated non-GAAP adjusted EBITDA was minus 200,000 and we reported a net loss of 1.6 million or one cent per diluted share for the fiscal 2024 first quarter. The prior fiscal 2023 first quarter results We're above normal, led by record high demand for direct higher placement services in 2022, driven by the post-COVID recovery bounce at that time. The pullback in demand for direct higher placement services in particular contributed to the significant shortfall in the fiscal 2024 first quarter results relative to those of the first quarter of fiscal 2023. Our performance still compares and tracks consistently with our industry peers as we are all facing similar challenges. The challenges being faced by the US staffing industry as a whole, including us, are expected to continue through at least the first half of calendar 2024. Before I turn it over to Kim, I would like to touch base on some recent achievements. We concluded our share repurchase program on December 31st, 2023, under which we purchased 6.1 million shares of Job Common Stock, just over 5% of our outstanding shares at the beginning of the program. In December 2023, our M&A Committee of the Board of Directors engaged the investment banking firm DC Advisory to assist the company with the review of strategic alternatives, which includes capital allocation strategies, mergers, acquisitions, and others, including future share repurchases. We expect to receive DC Advisory's initial findings to be presented to the M&A committee as soon as this week or next. I want to assure everyone that our sole focus now and into the immediate future is to manage through this downturn with the objective of minimizing its negative impact on our businesses and preparing for an eventual recovery. We have hardened our balance sheet with substantial liquidity in the form of cash and borrowing capacity and are very well prepared to successfully navigate our present poor economic conditions. We also continue to believe that our stock is undervalued and has substantial room to grow. And finally, before I turn it over to Kim, I want to thank our wonderful dedicated employees and associates. They work extremely hard every day to ensure that our clients get the very best service. They are a key factor in our achievements and the most important driver of our company's future success. At this time, I'll turn the call over to our Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, Kim Thorpe, who will further elaborate on our fiscal 2024 first quarter results. Kim?

Thank you, Derek, and good morning. As Derek mentioned, revenues for the fiscal 2024 first quarter were $30.6 million, down 26% as compared to the fiscal 2023 first quarter revenue of $41.4 million. Results for the fiscal 2024 first quarter declined in comparison to those of fiscal 2023's first quarter, due mainly to the significant worsening economic conditions. We also achieved record performance in the 2022 calendar year, including the fiscal 2023 first quarter into December 31, 2022, driven by some what some in our industry, as Derek mentioned a minute ago, was a post-COVID-19 bounce in employment recovery trends. This gave way to returning concerns about uncertainties surrounding the economy that have negatively impacted labor markets throughout 2023 and worsened in the later portion of calendar 2023, leading to further decreases in orders and placements for our businesses through the first quarter of 2024. Professional and industrial contract staffing services revenues for fiscal 2024's first quarter were $27.6 million, down 22% as compared to the fiscal 2023 first quarter. Professional contract services revenue, which represents 91% of all contract services revenue and 82% of total revenue, decreased $6.7 million, or 21%, quarter over quarter. Industrial contract services revenue, which represents 9% of all contract services revenue and 8% of all revenue, decreased $1.1 million, or 31%, quarter over quarter. Again, the economic and labor market factors previously discussed contributed to a decline in orders from our clients as well as temporary labor to fill those orders, leading to the decrease in contract revenues. Direct hire revenues for the fiscal 2024 first quarter were $3.1 million, down 47%, as compared with fiscal 2023 first quarter direct hire revenues. As Derek and I mentioned earlier, the fiscal 2023 first quarter ended December 31, 2022, was part of and at the end of a record high calendar year for the direct higher placements. Furthermore, direct higher placements versus temporary placements are usually the first to be negatively impacted in an economic downturn such as that experience since 2022's post-COVID-19 bounce to the resurgence of economic and labor uncertainties in 2023. Gross profit for the fiscal 2024 first quarter was $9.7 million, down 32% as compared to the fiscal 2023 first quarter gross profit of $14.4 million. Our overall gross margins were 31.8% and 35% for the fiscal 2024 and 2023 first quarters, respectively. These decreases in gross profit and gross margin are mainly attributable to the decline in direct hire business for the fiscal 2024 first quarter. I'm sorry, are mainly attributable to the decline in direct hire business, which has 100% gross margin. Our professional contract services gross margin was 25% for the fiscal 2024 first quarter compared to 25.4% for the fiscal 2023 first quarter. a decline of only 40 basis points. Our light industrial services gross margin was 16% for the fiscal 2024 first quarter, compared with 15.5% for the fiscal 2023 first quarter, which was an increase of 50 basis points. Despite lower quarter-over-quarter overall gross profit and gross margins, our current margins remain relatively high as compared with those of our competitors. Selling general and administrative expenses, SG&A, for fiscal 2024 first quarter were $10.6 million, down 17% as compared with the fiscal 2023 first quarter. SG&A expenses were 34.6% of revenues for this fiscal 2024 first quarter compared with 31.1% of the fiscal 2023 first quarter. The increase in SG&A relative to revenue is primarily attributable to fixed costs, including personnel-related expenses, occupancy costs, software subscriptions for applicant sourcing and tracking, and others, which increase proportionally relative to lower revenues, and to a lesser extent, certain other non-recurring expenses associated with core business operations. We reported a net loss for the fiscal 2024 first quarter of $1.6 million or a negative one cent per diluted share down $2.3 million compared with the net income of $700,000 or one cent per diluted share for fiscal 2023's first quarter. Adjusted net loss, which is a non-GAAP financial measure for fiscal 2024's first quarter was a negative $900,000 or a negative one cent per diluted share, down $2 million as compared to $1.1 million, or one cent per diluted share for fiscal 2023 first quarter. Our reported net losses for the fiscal 2024 first quarter, again, are mainly the result of the decreases in revenue and gross profit and gross margin on lower direct higher placements business previously discussed. Adjusted EBITDA, which is a non-GAAP financial measure for fiscal 2024's first quarter, was a negative $200,000, down $2.2 million as compared with $2 million for the fiscal 2023 first quarter. Our current, our working capital ratio as of December 31, 2023, was 4.2 to 1 of 60 basis points from 3.6 to 1 as of September 30, 2023, We reported negative cash flow from operating activities of $900,000 for the fiscal 2024 first quarter into December 31, 2023. Our liquidity position remains very strong, and we have no outstanding debt. Our net book value per share and net tangible book value per share were 93 cents and 33 cents, respectively, as of December 31, 2023. To conclude, we're obviously disappointed with our fiscal 2024 first quarter results. However, we remain and we remain cautious in our outlook for the remainder of fiscal 2024 considering current economic and labor market uncertainties. Importantly, however, we do remain optimistic for the long term and have demonstrated we can produce earnings consistently under better economic conditions. Before I turn it back over to Derek, Please note that the reconciliation of G Group's non-GAAP financial measures discussed today with their GAAP counterparts can be found in supplemental schedules included in our earnings release.

Now I'll turn the call back over to Derek.

Thank you, Kim. At December 31, 2023, the company had $19.9 million in cash and another $9.3 million in availability under its bank ABL facility. Despite economic headwinds and staffing industry specific challenges impacting demand for our services, we are aggressively managing and preparing our businesses for an inevitable recovery. We will continue to work hard for the benefit of our shareholders, including consistently evaluating strategic uses of GE Group's capital to maximize shareholder returns. Before we pause to take your questions, I want to again say a special thank you to all of our wonderful employees for their professionalism, hard work, and dedication. Without them, we could not have accomplished all the good things we have shared with you today. Now, Kim and I will be happy to answer your questions Please just ask one question and rejoin the queue with a follow-up as needed. If there's time, we'll come back to you for additional questions.

Thank you.

So the first question is regarding the stock buyback plan that expired December 31st of 2023. Would we consider reinstating a buyback plan and the thought process? We are waiting for the findings from our investment bank, DC Advisory. which will set forth strategic alternatives, including maximum use of our capital, which they will evaluate all the options we have with respect to utilization of our capital. And we expect that soon, either the latter part of this week or next week. We will communicate back also with you regarding the findings there. So we are well positioned cash wise and credit wise. We have no debt. Uh, so we're very, very in good shape. And by debt, I mean, longterm debt. Ken, would you like to add anything to that?

No, I mean, I think we're, um, you know, I would like to point out, I know the quarter is disappointing, but, um, we, you know, we're, we're very well prepared for this. We've been, we've done it before. We came out stronger. Um, after the pandemic than before the pandemic actually. So I wouldn't, I don't have anything to add.

Thank you. One of the questions, the next question has to do with, you know, the strategic alternatives again, and we are going to wait for our report to discuss those in further. How much did the company spend on DC advisory strategic review I believe that that is held confidential based on DC Advisory's agreement with us. I really can't discuss that. I would say, though, we are very, very cost-conscious there, and they were very, very good about working with us at a low rate, and I felt very good about the process and

We look forward to their findings.

So one question is, you know, what things would the strategic review produce? And as I mentioned, the best use of our capital. We'll talk about M&A strategy and so forth. And when we get the report, we'll talk more about what we're doing there. On a long-term basis, if you like the stock buyback, would you like to buy it at 37 cents? I'd like to buy it at a dollar, quite frankly. But the stock buyback program was successful thus far. And I want to also comment on recessionary trends. The trend line for our business, you'll see a dip in 2000, 2001. You'll see it in 2008 to 2009. And again, that same dip is what we're facing now. The good thing is the recovery doesn't show a rapid rise in business volume. We are preparing for the rapid rise. And the way we're preparing is hiring sales and recruiting personnel to meet the demand. Also, we keep SG&A in check. SG&A dropped. significantly, almost $2 million this quarter. It's up as a percentage of revenue because of the revenue drop, but we have a few arrows in the quiver to work on SG&A a bit, but you don't want to cut SG&A to the bone if your expectation is there will be a demand recovery at some point in the near future. In the near future can mean six months, it can be nine months, but we can see it in our back order log for job orders. So we will keep you posted on that. I can tell you I've been through it before and I really enjoy the recovery period.

Hello, Derek, you there?

I think Derek has had some difficulty with his mic, so I'll try to step in and take over a couple of these questions. The repurchase program expired December 23. What's the new plan at these levels? Doesn't it make sense to buy more stock? DC Advisory is definitely looking at that along with the other portions of the review. As Derek said, they intend to complete the review and have a report to us either this week or next week to our M&A committee. Our M&A committee is leading that project. It's comprised entirely of independent directors, and so it's something that we take very seriously in the realm of governance. Does the strategic alternatives review include a serious look at selling the company? You know, all pathways will be reviewed in the strategic alternatives review. Although there's another question here, you know, would you consider selling the company under these conditions? My own personal opinion, I think I speak for Derek as well as, you know, I prefer to sell buy low and sell high rather than the opposite.

Well, Kim, I can also add. Sorry.

So I've been on a little technical glitch for a second, but no, I've listened on the question. And one thing people need to remember that there's some up and downs in the sector. It's a great industry, but it has to be based on demand in the macroeconomic environment. And I've lived through multiple cycles and exited as well very successfully. So the comment about that is as a public company, you have to maximize shareholder value. And at this point, we have to build our business back to at least where it was first and then get it to the next level, all of which is very possible for sure. Because of what we're seeing, we're pretty hopeful that we flattened out on the lower demand and that we'll catch the upswing toward the latter part of 2024. If it takes a little bit longer, that's fine. We're well positioned to do it. We don't have to be rash about any decisions to do anything out of the ordinary. But we do have to be prudent in managing both the top and the bottom line. and keep driving the business forward. We have a great value proposition in terms of our verticals, our margins. By the way, we're either second or third in the peer group for the industry on gross margin, even with the decline down from roughly 35 to 31.5, which is driven by perm placement volume. That influences it. But our contract gross margins are also holding very well. And our pricing is also holding. Let me take another question.

Jerry, may I add something? Yeah, sure.

So to put this in perspective, I don't want folks to think that we don't take the loss this quarter seriously. We take it very seriously. But let me attempt to put some more perspective around that. In the last 10 quarters, since we did our follow-on offering, we've generated $500 million in revenue, almost $180 million in gross profit. Our gross margin across all 10 quarters was 35.6%, which is in the high end of our industry. Our adjusted EBITDA Over that period, cumulative has been over 6%. I mean, we obviously need to work on getting that higher, and we will. Our net income over that period has been $27 million, or 5.5%. Our cumulative earnings per share since the offering at $0.60 has been $0.27, 44% of the $0.60 price that the following offering went out on. And last but not least, we've generated $16.5 million in free cash flow in 10 quarters. This is the first loss we've had since the fourth quarter of 2023, the first quarter of 2023, which was a small net loss of about $300,000. So I just want everybody to know that we are managing this company for the long term, and we believe that it's got a lot more juice. And we're anxious to get to the recovery.

Thank you, Kim. So one of the other questions, and it was repeated a few times in a slightly different format, was how are your business verticals and what do you think is going to happen going forward? So each business vertical is had a decrease in demand coupled with supply issues of getting the labor teed up to fill some of the orders. That is slowly changing. And as you know, there were big layoffs in the information technology sector. And that halted some projects that were being done internally by our client companies. that is starting to warm up. So when will that take a real upward swing? And we can't predict which quarter that will happen, but we do know that it happens and it's happened historically time and time again, and we're prepared for it. The vertical of accounting finance, for example, also was impacted, but that turns as well. So I can tell you that we will position our company for growth and profitability and have positioned it and will continue to do so and catch the upswing. And that will get the shareholders the value they need on price. Strategic alternatives, how we use our cash, what's pricing on acquisitions, those questions have come up. Acquisition prices are somewhat muted now because of the downturn. Are they five times EBITDA or six times? They are. But with synergies and so forth, you have to bring the multiple down to the three or four range with the deals if that becomes an option for us. But again, we will review all these strategic alternatives when the report comes in and move forward judiciously with it. We are well-positioned. In my prior life, I was well positioned in 08 to capture the upswing and have done it. The same with 2000, 2001. We had kind of the dot-com bust then. So the key for us is not to make rash decisions, but to be thoughtful in what we're doing with our strategic plan. And I can tell you there's active board participation, including our largest shareholders. and we have the horsepower to succeed. We have the guidance to succeed. We have the expertise internally in management, and we have the oversight in place by the board to help us drive the business forward. I'm very, very bullish on long-term outlook, and that can mean a couple quarters, but we should see indicators coming up, and we will report to you about those indicators. We're not satisfied in the least with our performance nor our stock price. But as the leader of the company, I have an obligation to gut check every aspect of our business and also position our business for the success that we anticipate coming. And that is the most critical aspect of what I can deliver today. We are prepared. We will take advantage of growth. And we will not make rash business decisions when you don't have to. And we're well positioned to do that.

Patiently waiting for it. We're going to give Derek a second to get back on.

I'm back on. I had a technical glitch there, but yeah, we're good. Kim, do you want to take a shot at another question?

Yeah, I mean, you know, here, let's see.

Let me go to GDP grew by 4.9% in 3Q and 3.3% in 4Q. Where is the economic weakness you're referring to? GDP does not alone dictate how the economy is. There's no question we have rising inflation, high interest rates. There's still a threat of inflation out there. The job figures keep getting adjusted downward. It's not the panacea that you see on television all the time. It's not the only indicator. The indication you can look at to verify this is going to look at our peers, including the Robert Haps, the Adekos, and others, And we're all still being pinned down to some extent by broader economic uncertainty than just a quarter or two's GDP. So that's the answer to that. What are the trends looking like here in 1Q? Can you better do a job of setting expectations with analysts in Wall Street? We don't provide guidance as a policy because it's very expensive to maintain. and to create the systems you need to do, and then it's not always reliable. But we have given as much directional guidance as we can. We talked about the turn in the trends from 2022 to 2023. If you look at other releases of other staffing firms that will bear out what we're saying, the staffing industry analysts were the largest trade associations. You can go online and read their publications. It will bear out what we're saying. Why were you so aggressive buying back at 58 cents and then nothing in stock was lower? We bought back a lot of stock. We bought back steadily all the way from the time we implemented the program in 2023 to the time it ended as of December 31. Given the economy and the downturn that we're in the midst of and the fact that we are about to get a report from an independent expert on strategic alternatives, we felt like it was prudent to pause for a few weeks. It doesn't mean that we'll abandon it altogether. We'll see what our advisor has to say and how our board feels about it. but it is not necessarily abandoned and we bought it back at all kinds of prices at 58% or I'm sorry, at 58 cents or lower. Yeah, there's a lot, look, I realize there's a lot of people upset about the stock price. We're upset about it too. All I can tell you is, is our tangible net book value is 33 cents a share. The stock price selling at less than 40 cents a share means that you all are indicating, you all being, I think, a lot of speculators out there and people doing day trading and short termers are suggesting that we could liquidate our company theoretically at 33 cents. And then the rest of our business, $150 million revenue business that has produced $165 million two of the last five years is only worth $4 million. come on, we're confident that the stock is undervalued and we don't like taking this much more time either, but it's going to come back up when the recovery hits. We've proven we can do that.

Yeah, let me add a few things, Kim. So we are in a great position to catch the upswing We don't have a great crystal ball as to which quarter the upswing will happen. It's usually a gradual process. And we are seeing some better job orders. We believe we flattened at the bottom at this point, absent some other calamity in the macro environment. And one of the questions was, well, it looks like the macro environment's not so bad. Well, first of all, our peer group has had reductions in comparable quarter revenue ranging from 12 to 50%, depending upon the geographic location and the vertical in which they operate, whether they have volume accounts, whether they have retail accounts, whether they're on VMS-related and MSP accounts, and so forth. However, it's epidemic, and I just got back from an industry CEO group, and it's across the board. And the economists predicted that the only jobs being filled today are government, lower-end hospitality, and some health care, because the cuts in health care, and I'll give you a great example, health care has had great demand during COVID and a bit post-COVID, and then there were some layoffs. AM and health care, which is the giant health care staffing firm nursing physicians and so forth has been down 30 to 40 percent in top line and if you go to robert half their perm business is actually down uh similar to ours uh the revenue was down and some of the buffers by the way for the larger staffing companies came from the european business not from the u.s business the u.s side was down for example manpower But now their French business is catching it too. So this is not unusual from an industry standpoint. And the macroeconomics broken down at the meeting that I went to by the economists, two different ones, point to exactly what we've been saying. They also point to an anticipated recovery. And we may be bumpy for a while, but they do believe there will be one. And we also have to realize that there was a hiring boom in 2022. We call it the post-COVID bounce. And so adjusting the labor force mark in 2023 toward the latter part started. It's not finished, but we think it's leveled off. And then there'll be the upswing. Projects will start. Now, interest rates went up. That put a little damper on project business for corporate America and so forth. Inflationary trends in wages. Our margins have held. One of the questions was, are your spreads and your gross profits and your pricing holding? The answer is yes. The influence on gross margin was PERM related. PERM is at 100% gross profit. So if you have less PERM, it impacts the gross margin in the aggregate. But I can safely say we're well positioned to move forward. We will take the actions necessary to restore profitability and get top line humming again. And That's what we're focused on. And we appreciate you as shareholders and interested parties being on the team. And we ask you for some patience, but we don't have, we're not satisfied in the least with the performance at this level, but we are optimistic that we will get out of here at this level and start moving in the great direction that we need to be. Now, I will tell you, we have signs at different regions of the country that and different verticals ticking upward. They're somewhat mitigated by those that are still flat, but that should come around. And we're very optimistic in the longer-term outlook. So I can safely say that. We're well positioned balance sheet-wise. I have to say that I predicted this was happening or would happen. We saw the same type of thing in 05 and 06 when PERM hit a bubble, a peak, similar to what it did in 2022, and then there was a decline in staffing. And what happens when there's a cut in employment, usually the contract labor and permanent placement business get hit first before full-time staff get let go. One thing companies have been doing is holding on – I think this is a key point that was made by The Economist – The reason the layoffs aren't more significant on the core employees of a client company is because they're retaining those employees even if the business didn't warrant because they don't want to lay them off because it's difficult to get them back. So that trend has been going on. Sooner or later, activity is good for our business. So if there's a bunch of layoffs, we'll – benefit from the recovery because they'll initially hire a contract and then they'll hire perm again. So that's the cycle, and it's borne out historically, and the economists have predicted this. They're showing why total employment was not bad in the aggregate, but then they dissected it and why temp labor and permanent hires from temp staffing companies are down, and it was across the board. I will say the optimism index of all the C-suite executives that were at the meeting that I went to is high. They don't know when that breakout will start occurring. It's starting to, as I said, first, where have you leveled off? We believe we have leveled off. And then are we catching an upswing, and will that be in 2024? The resounding answer was yes, it is, but it could be the latter part of 2024. Nonetheless, we're well positioned. We will take aggressive action on both top and bottom line. We have great talent internally, great talent, and we're adding great talent, and people are coming to us for jobs because they think it's a great place to be coming from competitors. So we feel good about that, and we only are hiring production personnel, recruiters, account managers, and salespeople at this point. because they will deliver the results we need to propel revenue forward and get net income and EBITDA back on the right track. Kim, do you want to add anything? I'm trying to give some global answers to similar questions.

Yeah. Derek, there's been a question or two on AI, and I know it's

Let me cover that. We covered AI at the recent meeting. The top 10 trends for staffing were discussed. AI for sure was a critical element of that. What do we anticipate doing with AI and how will it benefit our business internally and also benefit us from placing AI expertise at our customers? In the IT sector, we're focused on growing the AI and cybersecurity capability or placements of those IT personnel at client companies. We're doing that through what I call very, very sophisticated recruiting, and we will also have the AI integrated into our recruiting. I have various individuals in the company right now studying the different tools to bring in for AI. And also on the vertical leadership side, our IT leaders are pushing ourselves with job orders, which we're getting for the positions. And I think what's important on the tech side is that technology is driving business, period, across the spectrum. And we have a significant practice, and we're adding to it. That's a huge growth area for us. So one of the questions was, how are you dealing with it? And my response is very aggressively, both for internal use and for placement of AI professionals. Cyber is intertwined as well into both of those areas. Jim, do you want to add anything to that?

No, I think, again, a lot of these areas are going to be covered, I think, and be part of the conversation around strategic alternatives. There are some good questions here, but no, I don't have anything else at this point, Derek.

Okay, good. Look, we're always available for follow-up as necessary, and the one thing I ask is that Believe that we are doing and will do everything that we can to get back to the profitability growth track that we need to be on. And we will move forward aggressively, strategically, and take advantage of opportunity, which is out there. We will also be judicious in how we spend our money and have been. So we will be very, very prudent and we are optimistic on the longer term aspects of where this company will be. We will report back at some point on the strategic alternatives after we've had a chance to look at those. And I anticipate that we'll have a broad plan to grow shareholder value, which is key to what we're doing. We also have a great team. Our employees are optimistic. They get paid on growth, so they are driven, and we all are connected to that. So we're excited about future prospects, and the key now is to just buckle down and walk and tackle and deliver the best we can. In a macro environment, that's choppy. High interest rates, some inflation. Very specific employment statistics that you have to look at. You have to dissect it, and that's what these economists have done to prove out what's actually happening in the industry. So that concludes our call for now, and we'll be in touch. We appreciate you joining us today, and we look forward to some good things. Thank you very much. Thank you.