HUB24 Limited

Good morning everyone and welcome today to our results presentation. Very pleased to present a very positive result and talk to you about our outlook and our strategy and of course leave plenty of time for questions as well. With me today is Katrina Shanahan as always, our Chief Financial Officer and let's begin with some high notes for the business for FY25. Once again, and we're very pleased to say that we are Australia's leading platform as rated by investment trends in their platform competitive benchmark report for the third year running. We also have the highest NPS score and the one for satisfaction voted by advisors and above managed accounts capability. And for this year, talking about how those awards and how our business has delivered strong advisor advocacy, for FY25 we've actually hit an industry record with $19.8 billion worth of net inflows We've been number one for net inflows of platforms for six consecutive quarters. We've been number one for platform market share gains over the last two years on an organic basis. And we continue to have the highest propensity for superannuation members who switch their super. We are the benefactor of that choice with the highest number of inflows from those who choose to switch arising from the delivery of good advice to consumers in the marketplace where people take control their future and want to invest in the products that suit their needs. I want to pause quickly though. We've led with this slide deliberately about where we stand in the market. It has been a great year and I wanted to recognise and thank both our customers and our team for helping us to deliver in that way. Surely our customers inspire us to do better and to empower better financial futures and it drives our team really to find a better way. So thank you for support from customers. Thank you very much for our team who've helped us deliver in this way. and are continuing to look forward to delivering and unlocking value in the future more and more for customers and shareholders. Here's a quick look at some of our overall platform recognition for the year, and many of you will have seen this before, so I won't labour the point, but we have been recognised in multiple surveys across the industry for customer service and product leadership. On the right-hand side in the top corner, in the last week, advisor ratings have rated us the best platform overall for satisfaction, There's super fun satisfaction, advisor experience, client experience, ease of onboarding, overall functionality, and best investment options, which is some accolades we received last week, I believe. So great to see that happening and recognizing the efforts we're taking in the business to create great solutions for our customers. We turn on some of our results highlights. They're moving straight into the financial results. What a great year, $136.4 billion of FUA, up 30% on last year, with platform FUA up 34% to 112.7. And we'll have some questions later about the $118 billion, I'm sure, as it falls in the books. We had a fast start to the year. We look forward to unpacking that as best we can during our question session. And our portfolio admin reporting service, FUA, also up 16%. On a revenue basis, the numbers are equally healthy. with the total group revenue over 400 mil at 406.6, which is up 24%, platform up 28%, and tech solutions, pleasingly, up 9% to $77.1 million. So all our operating segments up with healthy percentages in terms of revenue. Of course, translating into underlying EBITDA gains as well for the total group being at 162.4, which is 38% up, platform up 39% as well, And Tech Solutions up 23% year-on-year at $27.2 million, a pleasing result there. On the MPAT front, the underlying and statutory MPATs are up 68%, 79.5% and just shy of $80 million. We've got our final dividend fully freighted, determined at $0.32 per share, bringing the full-year dividends to $0.57. And that $0.32 is up 64% on the prior corresponding period. And then underlying EPS for the year diluted is also up 45%. So a really great set of results arising from how we run the business and our clients and our strategy and the good execution we've got in the marketplace. In terms of some other highlights for the year, in terms of our leadership and growth, we've had very strong growth in the business and very strong leadership in the industry. Having had as a great lead indicator for the future another 572 advisors choosing to start using Hub24, in the last year, and that's the largest increase in advisors we've had since FY21. $5.3 billion of transitions finished for EQT over this year and the year before, and another one for Clearview, $1.3 billion. So to complete those large migrations at the same time as having record-breaking organic flows for us, a great result. Discovery is up at $1.9 billion, which is great, having launched only just over a year and a half ago. And we have the leading platform, according to investment trends across multiple client segments, including the high net wealth segment, mass affluent and mass market segments. And we'll talk a bit more about high net worth later on in the pack. Class is also growing at the highest level it has since FY20. In terms of executing our strategy at the same time, I'll spend some time later talking about Engage, which we've launched, which is leveraging our HubConnect technology. We now have seven by Prosperity Enterprise Agreements on foot with large national licensees. We'll talk about the high net wealth and the reach piece a little bit later in the pack. And of course, we're doing lots of enhancements to both Class, now Infinity, and the platform. And whilst we're doing that, we're also conscious of building for the future with increasing our quality, our service, and our efficiency to automation, upgrading our infrastructure, leveraging AI and emerging technologies to create customer value and shareholder value in productivity and efficiency for both of us, as well as investing, of course, in our people and our culture. Some highlights there. All that results to we've had a consistent approach to investing in the business and delivering profits over time. And if you look at this slide here on slide eight, in terms of our consistent delivery of growth and profitability, the revenue CAGR for the business over four years is 38%. And the underlying EBITDA CAGR is 46%. And the chart there has that broken down across our segments and our corporate revenue. And our funds under administration for UK GAR is a 24% growth rate. As you can see, it's been fairly consistent, reliable growth, and we hope and we intend to keep delivering that moving forward as well. This full growth translates into changes in market share. We're ranked number seven in market share, but we're at the same level give or take to our nearest competitor. And in the marketplace, Hub24 has once again had the number one market share gain over 12 months, having gained 1.4% overall market share. with the next participant gaining only 1.1%. And our share has increased. So that's over the last 12 months. And the market itself is growing, having had $36 billion of net inflows into the market. It's the highest industry annual net inflow since 2008. And the corresponding period had $7 billion of net inflows. So the market's growing, and our share in the market is growing as well. As I said earlier, there's 572 advisors who've chosen to start using Hub24 this year. And having a deeper look at some of the trends in advisors, 33% of advisors in Australia now use Hub24, and that's a four-year CAGR of 14%. In June 21, there was 16% of advisors, now 33% at the end of FY25. The average balance for those advisors has gone up from right about $14 million to about $21, $22 million per advisor in that period of time as well. So we have more advisors using the platform and the penetration or the share of their book and their clients has increased over that time as well. Translating that to overall market share, we've grown from 4% to 9% over the last four years. And as I said a little bit earlier, number one in terms of market share gains over the last 12 months. Having said that, our growth continues to arise from existing and new advisors. On this slide here, you can see some of the details of that. For this year, 81% of our flows have come from existing relationships. And we talk about how existing relationships typically give us positive net flows, perhaps after six years of being on the platform. So there's reliable ongoing flows from existing clients. 16% of flows in FY25 came from new advisors with existing licensees and 3% from new relationships. HUB24 has access through relationships to more than 70% of the advisor market. even though only 33% are actively using it. So we have an opportunity to gather support from more and more advisors as we continue to execute. In terms of the FUA overall, as I said, the FUA per advisor is up to 22 million, up from 14 million in FY21. But with an industry average of $76 million per advisor, you can see there's a runway to go in terms of extending our reach and servicing more of the advisors' book of clients, with an average of 22, but an industry average of 76. 11% of the advisors on our platform have more than $50 million of Foo and Hub24, illustrating the levels of penetration we can get to and the long runway we have with those existing relationships as well. So still a great opportunity for us to continue to grow from existing and new advisors moving forward. Having a quick look at our technology solutions and my prosperity businesses, Class is maintaining its market share at about 30.5%. The system itself is growing on an accelerated basis. And Class has had the largest increase of accounts in FY25 since FY20. The corporate messenger part of the Now Infinity business is growing at 1.4 times system. So great results there in terms of growth moving forward. And also in MyProsperity. We're seeing results there as well with increased customer engagement. You can see the number of logins per firm, logins per customer. So people are using the tool more and more for its rich capability. We've got seven enterprise agreements signed with large licensees. Those licensees have 1,700 practices across the industry, which we hope to, over time, have quite a few of those sign up to using the service. And interestingly, since we bought MyProsperity, 65 MyProsperity practices or customers have become Hub24 customers And those customers have delivered over a billion dollars of fuel to the platform. So you've seen the reciprocity and the sales synergies, if you like, from us building an ecosystem with platform class, now Infinity, and micro-sperity starting to play out in our results. Our people are wonderful and I'm very, very thankful and pleased and proud to be able to lead our business. They're very dedicated and very passionate about delivering on the promise we make to our customers. We've got just shy of 1,000 people in our businesses. Our staff engagement is up year on year to 78% in the top quartile. We're endorsed as an employer of choice for women by Work 180. We're certainly purpose-led and values-driven, embedding our values into our culture that are on the slide there. We're investing in career growth at all levels and improving our employee value proposition. We have a graduate program. We've extended and scaled up an intern program. In fact, we have been named in the top 20 of the 25 best small intern programs in Australia. It's a delight seeing young people come into our business with their ideas and passion, the ability to start a career with us. We've had some external recognition of our people and culture this year as well, with finalists in the Seek Star Awards, multiple finalists in the Women in Wealth Awards and Women in Security Awards, that's technology security, and three Excellence Awards in the Australian HR Awards as well. So people are a very big focus of our business and absolutely supporting our sustainability objectives, which I'll quickly talk about on the next slide before I hand over to Katrina. So quick update, we've made some ground on our sustainability objectives with our key focus areas, made significant progress towards our 2030 net zero goal for scope one and two emissions. We've renewed our commitment to United Nations Global Compact. We've certainly invested in cybersecurity capability and digital initiatives supporting industry scalability and security as well. And we've certainly delivered on our customer promises with strong NPS results as well. So continuing to focus on how we make Hub24 a sustainable business for our shareholders, our customers, and for the community at large. Thank you. I'll just hand over to Katrina Shanahan, our CFO, to talk about our financial results.

Thank you, Andrew. So here we have the group platform and the tech solutions snapshot of the revenue underlying EBITDA and the customer numbers. So the group revenue was close to $407 million for this year and underlying EBITDA of just over $162 million. platform being the largest segment and the largest driver with $323 million worth of revenue and just under $143 million worth of underlying EBITDA. And as Andrew mentioned, just over 5,000, 5,097 active advisors using the platform as of 30 June. Tech Solutions revenue was up to $77 million this year and underlying EBITDA of $27 million with, again, 6,500 accounting practices using the class solutions. So moving on to the next slide, we have the group financial results. And here you can see the growth year on year with the underlying EBITDA margin for the group up 3.8% to 39.9% in full year 25. Underlying NPAP was up 44% to just under $100 million at $97.8 million for the year, and statutory NPAP was up 68% to $79.5 million for the year. Full-year dividends for the year were $0.56 per share, up 47% on last year, and the underlying diluted earnings per share of $117.8 per share, up 45% year-on-year. And on the right-hand side, you can see the contributions for operating revenue and underlying EBITDA from the platform tech solutions in the corporate segments. So moving on to the next slide, we have the platform segment. And here we have the custody FUA growth of 34%, with the platform FUA of just under $113 billion, at $112.7 billion for the year, and non-custody FUA up 16% year-on-year at $23.7 billion. This brings the total FUA at the 30th of June to $136.4 billion, up 30% year on year. And again, as Andrew mentioned, we had record net inflows for this year, record for Hub 24 of $19.8 billion, which also included $4 billion of large migrations. And it was a record for us including and excluding the large migrations. On this slide, you can also see the platform underlying EBITDA margin of 44.2%. which was up 3.5%. You can see on the right-hand side in the graph on the right, you can also see the 8.5 billion of positive market movements into the custody for us. So moving on to the next slide, we have the platform custody revenue and margin. And on the graph on the right-hand side, you can see the revenue margin was consistent throughout the year at 32 bits, first half, second half, and full year 25. This was down one BIP on second half 24 and down two BIPs on full year 24. This is driven by positive markets, average balances increasing and accounts moving into higher tiers or reaching a fee cap. And there was one BIP margin compression during the year with cash balances reducing as a percentage of referrer. For full year 25, the average cash balance was 6.9% and for full year 24, the average cash balance was 7.4%. There's more details of this in our analyst and investor pack. Okay, so continuing with the platform composition of FOA and revenue and the revenue margins, you can see the retail has increased as a percentage of our total custody FOA, and it's up to 87% of the portfolio is now sitting in the retail portfolio. It was 84% in full year 24. This is due to a high proportion of the net flows coming into the retail portfolio. And in the chart on the bottom right-hand side, you can see the mix of the custody revenue margin with the retail revenue margin coming down year-on-year 2 bps, consistent with my previous commentary on the previous page, and the institutional revenue margin coming down last year for year 24 at 13 bps, coming down to 10 bps average across the year. In the analyst and investor pack, you can see that the second half 25 institutional margin was down to 7 bps. and this is due to a mix of the portfolio. We completed the five billion of migrations from EQT in the year, and so now EQT and private bank clients are the largest component of the institutional fewer, and their wholesale rates reflecting the scale and the lower cost to serve for these portfolios. Okay, so moving on to the next slide, we have the platform underlying EBITDA and margins, and on the right-hand side, you can see the trend with the continued growth in the underlying EBITDA margin, with operating leverage and growth delivering a margin of 44.2% this year for the platform. And we've also got the four-year platform underlying EBITDA CAGR of 39% there. Okay, so now moving on to the tech solutions part of the business. And as Andrew called out, Class has had one of the best years in, I think, since full year 20. Class number of accounts grew 4%. to over 215,000 accounts. Now Infinity business is growing incredibly well. We've got 12% growth in the Now Infinity document orders, just over 214,000 documents produced in the year. And companies on Class Corporate Messenger, over 852,000, up 7% year-on-year. And the Class underlying EBITDA grew 23% to $27.2 million. with an increase in the underlying EBITDA margin of 4% to 35.3%. Okay, so now moving on to the group expenses. So we have total expenses have grown 13% to $307 million. This includes operating expenses, depreciation and amortization, and interest expenses. The largest driver of the increase comes from employee-related expenses, with RFTE growing 8% year-on-year. And at the 30th of June, we had 962 full-time employees. The growth has been seen in the operations area, which has grown in line with the FUA growth and is linked to the number of accounts and the size of the FUA that we're servicing. We've also had employee growth in the technology and the product teams, and again, to support the growth that we're seeing across the business. Moving on to the next slide. Here we have a walk of the group's underlying EBITDA, underlying MPAT, and stat MPAT. So we have group underlying EBITDA of just over $162 million. Then we do a walk down to the underlying MPAT with share-based payments of just under $14 million, which is consistent with last year, which was $13.5 million. Depreciation and amortization has ticked up year on year and is now $19.4 million. which is tracking and aligning with the CAPEX levels, capitalisation across both the platform and the tech solutions business with $19.1 million in full year 25 and C2C depreciation and AMOR is tracked in line with that. Interest expenses has increased year on year with a large part of that to do with the property moves that we've done and the interest on the leases increasing. And then the last call out that I'll raise is the effective tax rate is just under 20%. and that's consistent year-on-year. The main reason it's below the corporate 30% level is because we have R&D tax claims and we also have the purchase of treasury shares that also impacts the tax rate. Then, moving on, just a couple more slides. We've got the group cash flow and the balance sheet. The group had $115 million of cash on the balance sheet at the 30th of June. There's also borrowings. We have a loan facility with CBA of $30 million, so a net cash balance of $85 million. The CBA loan matures in June 26, but we have the flexibility to either repay that loan or to roll it over depending on the uses of the cash. And we've called out a couple of the uses of the cash on this slide with an increased loan with the Superfund trustee. The loan's up to $100 million. with 5 million drawn at the 30th of June. But you can expect to see that increase in the first quarter. There'll be a drawdown at the 30th of September to align with the new APRA SPS 114 standard. Another use of the group's cash is the employee share scheme and purchasing treasury shares on market to service those employee share schemes. And so then moving to the last slide before I hand back to Andrew to talk about strategy and outlook. Here we have the fully franked final dividend for the year of 32 cents per share, which is up 64% year-on-year, taking the total dividend for full year 25 to 56 cents per share, up 47% year-on-year. And then on the right-hand side, you can see the group KGARs for the dividend of 54%, underlying EPS of 52%, and a total shareholder return over the last four years of 34%. And with that, I will hand back to Andrew. Thank you.

Thank you, Katrina. Talking about our strategy and outlook, our strategy has two main focus areas, growing our market leadership at the same time as continuing to transform our industry and look for opportunities to create value in new ways. So the left-hand side of the slide, and we've talked about this before, it's about having a strong growth outlook and us continuing to lead in our chosen businesses for Hub24 platform, Class and now Infinity, certainly well-positioned. to increase our market share from the current 9% in the platform and to continue to benefit from industry transformation and be a leader in that space. We certainly tend to keep doing that. And in class and now in Infinity, they're also accelerating their growth and great results there in terms of their market share. So those two businesses in themselves, those business models and leading that is part of our strategy for creating shareholder value to keep ourselves at the forefront in those business lines at the same time as looking for how we can create additional shareholder value through our technology solutions, which is leveraging our group capabilities to look for efficiencies for financial professionals and their clients with HubConnect, MyProsperity and portals and so forth. And in itself, having those two prongs to our strategy, creating growth synergies for each other. So our technology and data solutions innovation, creating growth opportunities for the platform and class and vice versa. So we have a great opportunity to do that. And the world in which we operate on the market, we continue to operate, is certainly structurally growing and it's creating opportunities for us and we're uniquely positioned to take advantage of that. In terms of demand for advice, that's increasing in Australia with 2.7 million Australians seeking advice. There are 3.5 or 3.6 million Australians looking to transition from accumulation to retirement, which is a trigger for needing advice and needing platform solutions. Of course, there's an intergenerational wealth transfer movement I expect over the next two decades up to $5.4 trillion. And so it's increasing demand for the services that platforms and advice business offer to the marketplace. The industry is undergoing transformation, continuing to undergo transformation in terms of not only participants in the platform space but also in the advice space. 90% of advisors now privately owned or privately owned licensees. But 36% of advisors saying that... They intend to over time use a single platform, up from 13% four years ago. And so the business models of advice practices are thinking about how do they lock in with a model that helps them with their business and productivity, and particularly in a business like ours where we offer solutions across all customer segments and all different life stages. With efficiency and compliance still being the two top challenges rated by advice firms, and certainly a focus here of our technology and our business in terms of how we help with efficiency, productivity, and compliance management. And the market opportunity, 98% of industry net inflows by the last, are captured by two platforms over the last year with Hub24 having 54% of that. And industry, or specialist platforms over the last four years gaining 10% market share with Hub gaining 5% of that. So the trends are there, our strategy, our technology position, our footprint, and our capability has us uniquely positioned to continue to benefit from these trends in the market and the industry. We'll do this, and you've seen the next slide before. The way we do this is through the four pillars in our strategy by leading today, helping to create tomorrow, building together. That's part of our overall purpose, to empower better financial futures together with advice, with fund managers, with technology providers, with customers, and how we build a better outcome. And thinking about our future, leveraging the businesses we have today, to get outcomes for financial professionals about one way of doing business, single viewer wealth, efficient access to our ecosystem, and flexibility in reporting insights. I mentioned our footprint across different client segments. We'll skip over this slide, but it talks about the different product ranges we have for different life stages from all of our business brands and over different segments. The only addition on there in that footprint is Hub24 Private Invest, which we launched in the last few months, which I'll talk about on our next slide. So some examples of how we bring our strategy to life, and we've got some innovative solutions behind it for clients. We launched Hub24 Private Invest, which is an innovative product with a unique design, easier access for wholesale investments for wholesale clients with different or streamlined disclosure documentation and onboarding processes, accessing a broader range of investments, including some alternatives. We do the administration of custody and non-custody assets in that product, flexibility for advising on their fees and whole of wealth reporting through engage which i'll talk about on the next slide but it is about expanding our addressable market so i said earlier investment trends rate us as having the best offer in the high net wealth space uh there's 3.4 trillion dollars worth of assets and high well uh 28 of advisors are focused on pilot world and wholesale clients and there's 690 000 investors and growing Only 22% of those investors are advised that we can build products and solutions and work with advice businesses to increase that penetration. It will certainly expand our addressable market for ourselves and our key customers. And improving productivity is the goal as well with these tools and solutions we're launching. So extending that, and that's an example of us thinking about our strategy and cutting across different segments. Another example on the next page is Engage, which is an evolution of our present market-leading reporting capability. We've launched that recently. It's a transformation in technology that advisors can use to have engaging discussions with their clients using their own terminology to build reports real-time that change based on different types of data, delivering advisors efficiency and advocacy and allows them to tailor this reporting for their own business. In the future, we'll allow them to publish these reports and also extract data for these reports for their clients and it leverages our hub connect capability which is integrated data that sits outside of the platform but allows performance reporting and reporting from multiple sources hence you can get the university of investments even if it's on another platform over time that's the plan here engage will run it currently runs inside the hub platform but it will also be a cornerstone of my prosperity for customers to use my prosperity to see engage running across all of the assets safe feeding to my prosperity regardless of whether they're held by Hub24 or administered by Hub24. We've had some great feedback from that, also being recognised in some surveys about Engage before we even launched it to the marketplace. And as always, we're leveraging emerging technology, so there's a scale and customer value to enhance our customer proposition and to also enhance the productivity and efficiency of business to get benefits for our shareholders. Our Innovation Lab has been established since 2018. We continue to use AI machine learning and low-code and robotic process automation to increase our productivity. We're having a phased rollout of AI tools across our business. It is helping us with our servicing model. We use it with IT development. We use it to deliver services for our clients. An example is our advice fee consent, award-winning, that used AI to do that in the marketplace. a virtual mail room we have to streamline the collection of data and documents and storage for customers. Of course, our focus with these technologies is certainly strong around governance and security and the responsible use of the technology, having good procedures and policies in place and a great robust cybersecurity framework with tools that allow us to ensure privacy, For example, safeguarding customers' documentation through using the Vault in MyProsperity, using data redaction tools, when we're communicating with information, certainly underpinning our innovation in those areas to implement our strategy and create value, as I said, for customers and shareholders. So that's just some examples of bringing to life our strategy and what we're doing. In the market, there's many more. We're certainly focused on extending that lead in our current marketplace and continuing to reshape how the industry works. And so moving forward, we've updated our FUA guidance to FY27. You might remember that at the end of FY24, we had guidance at $115 to $123 billion of FUA at the end of FY26. Rolling out one year ahead of that or one year beyond that, there's a $33 billion increase in the lower end of that to $148 billion by FY27. And a $39 billion increase at the top end of the range, $162 billion. That's based, and Kit can talk about it, it's based on continued net flow, momentum and market movements and a range of growth assumptions. It is a broad range as the business gets bigger. And we certainly aspire to hit towards the top end of that or to exceed that as we have in the past. But giving you some guidance, so that's the range we think we can hit moving forward given our current plans. We're in a great position to leverage structurally growing markets as usual, unlock value and capitalise on these opportunities for customers and shareholders. Strong and reliable growth, we expect that to continue from existing and new customers. Our operations are scalable, we're seeing even down margin, we're able to invest in the business at the same time as enhancing margin, and we're in a great position to continue to grow market share. Of course, with a strong balance sheet, great cash flows that support our ongoing investment and delivery of shareholder returns. So thank you very much. That ends the formal part of our presentation. Very happy to open up for questions from those of you who have dialed in.

Thank you. If you wish to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. If you wish to cancel your request, please press star two. If you're on a speakerphone, please pick up the handset to ask your question. The first question comes from Cam Huckett with Wilson Advisors. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Morning, team. Great results. Well done, as always. Andrew, you mentioned a fast start, so let's perhaps begin there. Just be good to understand the composition of FUA to mid-August, please, of the $118 billion, just noting NASDAQ and ASX 200. both up around 5% since June. So perhaps just some colour there on how the year started in terms of flows and the contribution from markets. Thanks.

So our market movement doesn't correlate totally to the market as usual and doesn't generally do that. It's about 50% correlation to the market movement. So roughly half of that gap from the ending number from June to today is new flows and half of it is market movement. I can probably tell you that. It's a strong start. It is a seasonally strong period, but it's great to have a good strong July and August heading off, but we've been pleased by that. And that's probably the answer to the question, Cam. We'll see how we continue to go. As we said, great lead indicators with a number of advisers and so forth, so we are seeing stronger flows than perhaps would be expected so far.

Yeah, and I think your account growth on platform was up half on half as well, so you're probably a bit of that coming through too. If I can then pivot to, I suppose, reinvestment requirements looking into 26. So, you know, winding back to the prior year, first half was softer. You put the foot on the gas through the second half, leading to an 8% increase in headcount year-on-year overall. But how about if I 26? What are you guys needing in terms of net ads and reinvestment, please?

Yeah, so you can see the fast start we've had. We're continuing to grow, totally believe in the strategy. And so you can expect the FTE, which is the largest driver of the expenses, to grow anywhere up to and around that sort of 10% sort of growth rate. And then from an OPEX perspective, you'll see other things coming through, things like salary increases, variable costs, custody costs, et cetera, custody costs correlated to the growth in the funds under administration, so OPEX could be in that sort of mid-teens range growth as we move into full year 26.

Yeah, thanks Kit. And then perhaps last one and then I'll hop back in the queue. I suppose just around migrations, particularly on the large end, we've seen both EQT and Clearview over the last year and a bit. So a question for either of you. Is there any reason investors should think that sort of one, maybe two a year run rate in large migrations should change with what you're seeing in terms of market activity?

So on the large migrations, we had obviously an excellent year in full year 25 with two migrations coming through. We've said in the past that you can expect to see a large migration come through every couple of years. There's always a couple that are in the pipeline. That's probably, when you can see the momentum in our underlying net flows, that's going to be less of a factor moving forward is how I would think about it.

Yep. Okay. Thanks, guys. I'll hop back in with you.

The next question comes from Tim Lawson with Macquarie. Please go ahead.

Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my questions. Maybe two just follow-ups to what Clam's asked. In terms of the FTE growth and off-expand, can you just link that, Andrew, to your sort of comments on sort of the technology and where you think that operating leverage can sort of end up, maybe not this year, but going forward?

In terms of FTE growth? Look, and Kit, you might help me out here. We certainly... are focused on opportunities and being able to invest in opportunities if they make sense for us. And so generally our FTE growth will be in variable growth in operation areas and in technology areas. We are absolutely building an ecosystem that brings all of our products together because there are opportunities to leverage that and we're seeing the green shoots and the advocacy of that from the market. So it's about investment in strategy to grow all parts of the business and should yield returns. So there's still operating leverage, though, in the fixed cost areas of the business. Absolutely, there has been. Hence, you've seen the expanding margin. At the same time, we've been increasing headcount. We've got a 3.8% margin improvement. Not that we're saying we'll do that again and again, but you can see that we're managing the business to do both. Does that help answer?

Yeah, that's great. And then just on the comment on migrations, you seem to be saying it's a little bit less of a focus. Can you sort of unpack that a little bit? Is that just the sort of fee level or less opportunities or what's the sort of logic to that being maybe slightly less of a focus?

Well, on one sense, with the amount of flows we're getting organically, they might have less of an impact to our growth. We used to think a $500 million migration was was large now we've just done five billion we've done quite a few in a short period of time and so yes we're always talking to opportunities like that but we're also being quite clear on what we choose to do so you know as we say you might see them every couple of years we've had a rush in the last few years so it's something we don't talk about unless we land something and it's material and market sensitive But at this point in time, we're saying we're expecting to focus on our strategy and increasing the penetration of our client book and we'll selectively take on those opportunities if it makes sense. They can be expensive and they take a long time, but we're very pleased with where we are and we're still open for business in that regard and if we have something to talk about, we certainly will.

Yep. And then just behind the flows, can you talk about what you're seeing out of superannuation funds into the platform?

Look, what we're seeing is no different to what's always happened in this industry. The typical trend demographically is that people get to a certain age and have a certain size of nest egg. They look for advice and they look for flexibility and control in their solutions. And platforms do typically have better retirement solutions or functionality or options for advisors to either through investment strategies to measure sequencing risk, look after retirement, or with the addition of annuity-based products, whether they be platform annuity-based or they involve a life company like Challenger or Allianz Retire Plus that we've got on the platform. It's a normal phenomenon. You've got people ageing, and so hence you've got people choosing to take control of their nest egg and seek advice. And so we're benefiting from that. The industry benefits from that. The industry has always benefited from that, and that's why we say the addressable market isn't the current platform market. It's the broader industry. There's nothing new to see here other than from the perspective of the amount of quantum that we're picking up is representative of our awards and our customer service and our product design and superannuation and representative of some of the disruption that's occurring in the industry with not all of the industry platform participants firing with their propositions at the moment, arguably.

Sorry, is it accelerating as a contribution?

It's certainly increased in dollar terms, but in percentage terms, I'm not sure I've got the breakdown of that that's coming from the platform market existing or super funds. I would expect it possibly has in percentage terms. In dollar terms, all parts of our business have increased.

And then just two quick ones, just on the sort of maybe the pathway to profitability from MyProsperity, obviously a bit choppy half to half, just sort of thinking about that strategy.

From my perspective... not as stressed or fussed about MyProsperity itself. Being proper, of course, we're absolutely aiming for that. We did deviate from our strategy when we purchased the business. We focused on building out scale so it can actually deal with those seven enterprise agreements. I think we've got 100 new practices using it in the last year or 75. But it's actually about its contribution to the ecosystem and how it gets bundled together with our products. So we will move towards profitability in MyProsperity, but it in itself doesn't change the bottom line of our business, it was a business we bought for $40 million. What does change the bottom line is how it fits in our ecosystem and you'll see it benefiting the flows. So I think part of the flows we're getting, obviously from the platform, is actually the fact that we own that business and we're using it as the front end moving forward. Kit, do you have anything to say there?

I think it's exactly what you just said in that when you look at the ecosystem and pulling it together and the advocacy that we're getting for it and what the opportunities that it delivers in the future, I think that was why we bought it and it's delivering to that.

And the one great issue we talked about there was the 65 practices who were only MyProsperity customers who are now using Hub. We also won a large arrangement with, oh, sorry, we won a deal with a large practice in the last few weeks on the back of our relationship with Class, wanting to extend across our group. So those things are driving advocacy and sales synergies across the ecosystem we're building.

The capability will eventually replace the hub 24 and the class and now infinity. Yeah.

Yep. Okay. And last question for me, just in the sort of the, I guess, penetration numbers you've given us. So first half, 31% of active advisors, now 33. And obviously a fall in those that are covered by distribution agreements that are not using the platform. Can you just sort of talk to where you think that sort of what currently 44% can trend through time?

Try to catch up with your 44% just quickly, but in terms of... So being the advisors not using a platform covered by distribution agreements. Okay. Look, we absolutely focus on that. We, as I said, 16% of our flows this year came from advisors who weren't and who are now from those agreements. So we certainly service those national relationships. We have a key accounts team that does that and a BDM team that does that. I don't have a colour on how far it can go, but certainly there are other platform examples in this industry, in an industry with more participants, where some platforms actually have far more advisors using living tax, 7,000 to 8,000 advisors using those particular platforms that have had in their heyday. So that's an example or a proxy of where this market's been before.

Okay. Thanks for taking my questions.

No worries. The next question comes from Nick McGarigal with Bear and Jerry's. Please go ahead.

Hey, thanks. Maybe just a quick comment on the... There was a mention of bolt-on acquisitions in the balance sheet page. Just maybe the kinds of things that you might be thinking about strategically or if you're even looking at things that potentially are more scale acquisitions versus kind of capability IP.

We certainly put it there deliberately to let you know that we're not shy to look at those things Is there anything specific we could talk about? Not at this point in time. And we'll, of course, only be inquisitive where it makes sense for shareholder and our custom proposition for shareholders. So it's something that remains on our agenda. And we do have an active team that looks at opportunities, but nothing really to talk about right now. But our focus would be if we can actually extend our ecosystem, provide more efficient access, more accessible and affordable access to advice for Australians and actually help advisers When accountants do that job, we're ready to go. So if it makes sense and there's a good value case there for our shareholders, we won't be shy.

Okay. And then maybe just a question maybe for Kit on the revenue margin outlook. There was a bit of admin margin compression presumably from higher average balances and the INSTO rate card. But how should we think about revenue margin outlook into 2016?

Yeah, at the moment, what we're seeing, I mean, it is a competitive market, but again, not seeing irrational pricing. And so you can expect to see the normal sort of up to half a BIP, maybe a BIP of revenue margin compression. But again, I guess it does all depend on what happens in the competitive pricing in the industry. But at the moment, it's looking like half a BIP to a BIP.

And does that kind of factor in what kind of cash trends? I guess we saw cash at the end of the period tick up to 6.7, but presumably it was running a bit lower than that over the second half?

Yes, it has been sort of a bit variable, particularly over the last sort of six months. It was certainly dipped down into the sort of, say, 6.5%. Last year, when you look at full year 24, it was more of an average of seven percent and you know higher in the start of full year 24 whereas when you look at full year 25 it ticked down but then on an average when you look at the last couple of you know say six weeks and towards the end of June as well you've got the dividends and distributions being paid out and so the cash balances over the last maybe let's call it eight weeks have been accelerated. So at the moment, I would imagine that the trend in the first half is, you know, consider it will be more consistent with what you've seen in the second half.

Okay, cool. And maybe just to just belabor the point around the first six and a bit weeks, you're saying it's around that $2.6 billion of net inflows to start off here up to the 14th.

Yeah, so when you're looking at the increase in the FURA 5.3 bill for the first six weeks, yeah, the net inflows was about 50% of that. Was that the question, Nick?

Yeah, that was the question. I was just trying to get a more specific number, but I think if 50% is the right number, then we'll run with that. So that's a very good start to the year.

Yeah.

Maybe just a final question as well. Presumably you've got some visibility now about the Explore, MDAA, and where that goes, and presumably that impacts more the March quarter 2026, is that right?

So with the Explore MDA, yes, we have been. I'll let Andrew answer this one, but we have been working on a solution for that.

We'll continue to work through that. We have some discussions underway with other third parties that might help us with that, but we expect to be talking more about that in the future. EDG, you might know, announced that they'd entered into an arrangement with us to do that through their non-cycle evidentiary business. So we're working through that at the moment with hopefully a transition where we can both work together to get a solution for the customers.

And so that would be more the kind of full $2 billion or is there an expectation that it's not the whole amount that goes?

I think there's an expectation that we'll retain more of that than perhaps we thought originally. and so I'm not sure it'll be the full $2 billion. It depends on advisors and customers. Of course, they have a choice here, but I think we've got a compelling offer that would perhaps retain more than we thought originally when we decided we'd close down that business. We also have a great opportunity to work with Evidentia and GDG with the technology and interface we're building to extend that arrangement and potentially grow further.

Great. Thanks for taking those questions.

The next question comes from James with Unified Capital Partners. Please go ahead.

Hi, Andrew. Hi, Catriona. Congrats on the result. Maybe just a few from me. Just on the quarter-to-date net flow number of that 2.6, just wondering if there's any kind of notable commentary on the gross inflow and outflow environment during this sort of quarter-to-date period versus what we're seeing in the prior quarter with some of the volatility coming through in April?

There's no marked change or shift. I think it's more of the same. I think it seasonally is. I would typically say May, June, July and August used to traditionally be the biggest periods of time in an advice-based wealth business because of the need to help clients pre-tax year-end and set stuff up post-tax year-end. And it is a busy period. But there's no remarkable shift in terms of contribution in or out. from that perspective, James. So, you know, it seems like just the ongoing growth of our business, some of those leading cases coming through with results at this point. Is that a fair comment, Kit?

Yep, totally. There's no real change. The trend is continuing, the momentum is continuing across everywhere.

OK, great. That makes sense. And maybe one more, a bit more of a specific one for Kit. Just on the platform and custody fees within that platform segment, I think they were down half on half, so they were 15, one of the first half. 13.8 in the second, and there was sort of 160 bps half-on-half increase in the gross margin there in the platform segment. So just a couple of parts to that. What was the driver of that, firstly? And secondly, what's the expectation on that gross margin moving into FY26? Yes.

So the platform and custody fees, generally they would move in line with the FUR because they're volume-driven. But as we get scale, we will get obviously improved rates with those. So you will see some of that coming through. Going forward, so I would take second half 25 as obviously clearly the starting point. It will start to tear up again in line with the FUA growth. And so I think that's probably all that I can really say on that. We tend not to give too much of a breakdown as to what's in those. But I think the key thing is It lines up with the operating expenses guidance that I gave you that the operating expenses will probably be in the mid-teens and you can expect to see the platform and custody fees increase with FUA going forward.

Okay, excellent. And sorry, maybe just one more. Just on the revenue margins, flat half on half at 32 bps, that was a good result. Just on April, again, in terms of the volatility we saw and there was some increase in trading more broadly on the ASX, any commentary on the contribution of that to the group across the half?

Absolutely. We definitely saw elevated trading volumes and you would have seen we had an excellent result slightly below consensus when you look at our revenue, and that was because consensus had broadly thought that our trading volumes would be even more elevated. They're certainly elevated higher than they were in full year 24, but just not to the extent that clearly consensus for the connecting... It represents the long-term nature of these businesses in terms of resilience and investors investing for a time.

For the longer term, they're less trading-based. They do make tactical and strategic asset allocation decisions, but there is a bit of resilience there. And it was, you know, we've not had a liberation day before, James, let's put it that way. But, you know, typically people kept their cool, advisors and customers. So whilst we used to have trading, it wasn't as pronounced as perhaps some ad market analysts thought it could be. But that's because of the nature of retirement savings. Absolutely. Thanks for taking my questions.

Our next question comes from Siraj Ahmed with Citigroup. Please go ahead.

Hi there. Hi, Andrew and Katrina. Can you hear me okay? Yes, we can. All right, great. Just first one, Andrew, just on the FY27 four guidance, the top end, I mean, if I'm doing a math, it sort of implies maybe 18 billion in net flows, which is quite strong. So maybe can you just touch on what gets you to the top end? Because it doesn't sound like there's any large migrations. So just keen to understand how you're thinking of that flow momentum. Thanks.

Well, as always, there's multiple ways to get there. And the top end might factor in market movement sensitivities as well. So it might be that if you think the market moved more than 5% on average, that could get you to a higher end. But also equally the bottom end, if you have a market movement of 2.5% instead of 5%, you get a different outcome. So we're trying to cater for things beyond our control in that as well. The top end would probably imply, you could say it could imply 18, could imply less of that depending on the market movement. I don't know if you want to unpack that.

I think it's completely fair. I think the way to probably think about it is the net flow range is probably in the 14 to 17 bill over 26 and 27. But you're absolutely right, Siraj, if you had very... normal markets compared to the long-term average, so let's assume 5%, then yes, you do need to be more up at that 18 billion range. But as Andrew said, we have a range of scenarios. And if you have the markets in 25 have been really strong, you would have seen, you know, we had 8.5 bill and 10% market growth. If you have a really strong market in either 26 or 27 plus high net flows, then you're up in the top end of that range.

And of course, we're always aspirational. and as you've seen in the past, there's been a couple of years where revised guidance are. Not that I'm saying we're doing that now, but we want to remain aspirational, and we're not sure what we can achieve. No one's done what we've done to date, so there's room in there for that.

Exactly, but just clarifying, Kit and Andrew, I mean $14 to $17 billion is a pretty strong outcome, right? But that $17 billion, assuming that you're not putting any large transitions in there, could that include a scenario of that?

If you look at the run rate and the advisory lead indicators, it's possible that we could achieve that. And so that's one assumption. We also have different assumptions where you've got a lower amount and you do have large transitions in there. So, you know, and it's not that we know the shape of that in the time, but that's possible.

Okay. Second one, maybe one for you, Andrew, just in terms of, you know, Shield and First Guardian and all the new press on that. I mean, my understanding is you, I mean, you do not have that on the platform, so that's a positive, but is that helping in any ways in terms of market share for you in the last few weeks?

I think it'd be too early to tell. I think advisors would be happy that our robust processes for putting things on the platform prevented that. We did have a look at those and they didn't pass muster for us. And we don't just rely on external research. We do a thorough process. And they didn't pass muster. I think it's too early to tell about that. I certainly think that most advisors who work with us do know that we have rigor and strength in that area. and certainly a lot of fund managers sometimes get a bit irky that it takes us a while to improve them because of that process.

Okay, maybe last one for Kit. Just in terms of mid-teens growth for next year, I'm a bit surprised it's not a bit higher, especially given you seem to be stepping up on hiring as well. So is there some offset? Maybe it's the platform and custody fees that you just spoke to, just how to think about it. I mean, 10% FTEs is helpful, but is there anything else offsetting that sort of why the growth is not higher than this year in terms of costs? Thanks.

We always have dedicated programs of work looking at our operating leverage, particularly across the operations area. We have a program of work and a team that is constantly looking at back office operations. processes and making them efficient. So there's an element of efficiency from that program that's continuing and the larger we get, the more impact that has. There's also, you know, more efficiency. We're absolutely looking at how do we use AI in addition to robotics across the business to make it more efficient. And so you're probably seeing some of that come through, Siraj, as opposed to something different in the platform of custody fees happening.

Got it. Can I just ask one more, sorry? That's okay. Yeah. Just into the institutional revenue margins, I actually thought that, you know, for instance, Clearview was actually on the Discover menu and it's meant to be better. Is that reduction just a function of timing or is that how we should think about it going forward?

Yeah, no, it's how you should think about it going forward. Clearview has actually moved into the Hub24 super fund and doesn't have a private label anymore, and so it's not in the institutional part of the business now. But the second half is how you should think about the institutional revenue model.

With that current client mix, but new clients and shifts and that can change that, as you've seen with Clearview moving out of it. So with the current client mix, yes.

Yep.

It does have similar evidence.

The next question comes from Olivia Coulon with E&P Financial Group. Please go ahead.

Yeah, sorry. I might be repeating something I misheard a little bit. But the second half you did say that annualizes to seven basis points in INSTO. Is that right? So hence why it went from 13 down to 10 for the full FY25?

Yeah, that's correct. That's how to think about it. Okay.

And then, sorry, can you just clarify again, so second half cash margin, did it average around the 6.8 in terms of the pooled cash average through that period?

It was, second half was 6.7. Okay.

So not margin, but percentage of assets.

Yeah, percentage of FOA.

Yeah. And then did you mention that you're thinking that it, kind of stays roughly at that level into first half, or is there an expectation that it might tick higher, given that you obviously had some very low full cash percentage earlier in the second half?

So I think the first half could potentially be elevated, same as the trend that you would have seen in previous half, because you've got July and August with the dividends and distributions coming through before people rebalance out, you could see a slightly higher percentage in cash in the first half. And so when you're looking over the whole of full year 26, you probably, it's going to be somewhere between that 6.5% and 7% and potentially could be on the higher end, but we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

It's largely dictated by macroeconomic cycles as well.

Okay. I appreciate that. And sorry, just on Mike Prosperi, I understand the broader strategic intent of the business, and it clearly seems to be delivering that if it's already given you a billion dollars of inflow and clearly improving NPS, et cetera. But do we have a new timing as to when the business might break even, given the benefits of the seven strategic licensee deals that you've executed?

Look, it could be towards the end of 27. We're definitely seeing, you know, momentum and a lot of interest. And like you say, we have signed those seven licensee deals. And so it could be towards the end of full year 27. Right.

And so you gave the EBITDA loss. What was the revenue contribution for the full year, if you don't mind me asking?

It was very similar to full year 24, and so it's between that $3.5 and $4 billion.

The second half, you did materially increase the investment in the product as well as obviously had a fairly flat top line impact.

Yeah, we have absolutely mobilized on MyProsperity going on the front end of all of the solutions and embedding it into the ecosystem strategy.

Yeah. Sorry, just the last one for me on tech solutions. Costs ticked up in the second half. Do you mind fleshing out where that investment's going into?

Yeah. So within the class businesses, we've got a program of work that we call Compliance of the Future that is continuing to make it provide efficiencies and enhanced features and functionality for accounting practices. And part of that was share registry feeds. So we have agreements in place with all of the major share registers to be able to get automated feeds and reconciled feeds into the systems. That came in in full year 25, and so you would have seen an uptick in the cost for that in the second half in particular. Okay.

Thanks. Appreciate it.

Our next question comes from with JP Morgan. Please go ahead.

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my questions. Maybe this is the first one touching back on the FY27 forward growth guidance. I know you mentioned in answer to an earlier question some ranges in the market growth assumptions that's implicit in that. So maybe if you can just help clarify what those assumptions are at the lower end and the upper end. Secondly, I was also just curious to understand why you've given guidance out into FY27 as opposed to 26. Do you have any clarity as to what your net flows would look like into 26, or are you kind of expecting flat trends 26 and 27?

I'll answer the first one about why we give guidance out to 27, and we've done this for a number of years. because we're a business that's growing rapidly and we don't really want to be giving short-term guidance and having to revise it all the time and it creates a whole lot of interest and discussion that's actually not necessarily productive. So, you know, we're giving guidance out two years deliberate to say it's a longer-term trend in the business and that's been a policy that we've had as a board and a company for some time now. It doesn't indicate anything about what we think will happen in 2026. It indicates a range that we think for 27, and we think that long-range guidance is appropriate given how rapidly trends in the business can change. In terms of unpacking it, Kit will cut me off in a sec, we don't actually use a particular assumption set to come up with a range. We look at multiple assumption sets and a 3D matrix, if you like, to say, here's all the possibilities. So we look at assumptions where there's zero market return and where there's 5% to 10% market return, and we look at maybe... We have dimensional grids that do that to say, balance with all these factors and levers here's where you could get to as opposed to we've used one particular assumption set to come up with that range I hope that's helpful so but in those sensitivities we may look at a range from zero to ten percent market movement and have a look at that and some of those you know ten percent would push us outside that range potentially as well depending on the net flow number so the correlation between net flows and market movement of what what gets you there so it's really, you know, a sensitivity table of possibilities of us landing somewhere we think is reasonable.

Thank you. That's helpful. Just a second question. You've provided some useful stats on industry average for a visor at 76 mil and you pointed out that you're materially lower at 22 mil and that's an opportunity. I just wanted to understand what the reason for this, because it's quite a substantial gap. Just want to understand what the reason for that was. And if you've seen any change in that over the last couple of periods and how quickly you expect that to trend upwards, like should we expect it to gradually drift upwards or have you seen step changes in the past? And so that's something that we can expect.

Yeah, totally. Look, as you said in the pack, there's some other hints there as well. Look, it does take six years for you to get to a point where you might be saturated in terms of what you're going to get from an advisor's business. That's an average figure, just a blunt figure. Advisors don't move money overnight. If they're going to change platforms, they're going to do it in the best interest of their clients at the right time, at the right life stage. And so it does take time for them to signal that. In terms of historically, yes, we've published each year what our average FUA per advisor is and what it's become. But I think the stat in the pack is 14 mil at 21 and 22 mil this year, which shows you that we've increased that by $8 million over four years, at the same time as dramatically increasing the number of advisors. So mathematically, you're getting new advisors in who start off with much lower than that average to start with, yet you're still increasing the average over a growing book. That's the best information we can give you. And we also point out that they were 11% advised more than 50 mil to show you what's possible to actually explain that over time you can get to those sort of levels. I hope that helps with understanding the way and the numbers behind that.

Yeah, no, thank you. That was helpful. Just one last question. I know in answer to a previous question you mentioned that you expect mid-teens OPEX growth. So this kind of suggests EBITDA margin expansion if you're able to hit your full guidance into 26. But I'm more interested in if you have any kind of medium-term expectations of where that platform EBITDA margin could settle over time?

It depends on how we invest. And so we're not shy in saying that we will continue to invest if there's larger opportunities. So have we not been investing at the rate we are, the margin will be far higher currently. And that's quite dynamic based on opportunities. So we will pivot based on opportunities in front of us, based on what our competitors are doing in the market and shifts. So what we have said previously is there's no reason why it can't get up to the high 40s. Some people say, can you get to 50% because one of your peers was doing that? Well, that's also possible. But it's a function of us using an accelerator and a brake in a disciplined way. And so having said that, you know, it's conceivable that if we had a great opportunity, we'd actually slow that down based on getting greater market share over time. So it is about how we run the business dynamically. But as a proxy, you could say high 40s is where we could end up. But, you know, who knows?

Okay, thank you. And is there other opportunities to kind of push beyond that? I mean, if we were to look at a longer-term time horizon at some stage, your reinvestment as a percentage of R4 should drop. So, you know, just wondering, big picture looking at 10 years, are there any comments that you'd make? There's things you could do.

You could have structural cost improvement through using AI and other technology. You could leverage your cost base to push that margin up as you do in a scalable business. You know, having said that, you could counter that with you could price lead to grow volumes. but then you do that profitably. So there's lots of different possibilities here with that. So there's the possibility of additional revenue margins in terms of looking at how you can leverage your ecosystem and build, let's say, an app store or work with others to monetise different opportunities to work beyond the ecosystem. And so there's lots of reasons you could increase your revenue margin, which would improve your EBITDA margin over time depending on your costs, reasons you could reduce your cost base over time, And price is a lever as well. So all those possibilities there. What I can tell you is we're focused on executing strategy and making decisions that get shareholders better returns. And there's some discipline and approach in that strategically that changes given this is quite a transforming industry and continuing to transform.

I understand. Thanks for that. Maybe just one last question. I know you bought 50 mil odd of treasury shares in the period. reduce the dilution. Any comments as to how you're looking at this into 26?

Absolutely. As you can see, we've got a very high correlation of our underlying EBITDA to cash on the balance sheet. And if we do, the employee share scheme that's in place around one, to make sure that we have market competitive employee rates, but also retention and attracting high talent. If we purchase the shares on market, it reduces the dilution for shareholders. And also, as we're using our cash resources, it gives you a tax deduction for that. So we will absolutely, the intention is to continue to purchase shares on market. And you can expect to see a similar level, potentially might even be higher in full year 26.

Thanks very much. That's very helpful. That's all for me.

Okay, I think we'll wrap up then. Thanks for coming along. Thank you very much. We'll see some of you on our rounds as we go through with our row show. But thank you for your support and for all your questions. And that's us signing off.