KMD Brands Limited

Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us for today's presentation of KMD Brand's financial results for the 2024 financial year. My name is Michael Daly, and I'm the CEO and Managing Director of the group. I'm joined in the call by Ben Washington, our Interim Group Chief Financial Officer. We will be talking through the presentation lodged on the NZX and ASX this morning. Unless otherwise specified, all financial numbers are in New Zealand dollars. Today's presentation will begin with a summary of the key financial and operational results for FY24. We will then discuss the group's financials, brand results, and an update on Kathmandu. We'll conclude with our focus areas and outlook for FY25. I will begin with a summary of the key results for FY24 and an overview of our group. Drawing your attention to slide four now, sales were 11.2% below last year's record sales result. reflecting ongoing weakness in consumer sentiment. Sales declined for all three of our brands, cycling their strong sales growth achieved last year. Despite the challenges on sales, it was pleasing to see gross margin remaining resilient, underlying operating expenses reducing despite global inflation, and working capital reducing despite the sales decrease. Gross margin decreased by 0.2% of sales to 58.9% for the group, with increased promotional activity for the Kathmandu brand. Operating expenses were tightly controlled in a challenging sales environment. On an underlying basis, operating expenses were 3.6% or $19.6 million below last year. With sales more than $120 million lower than last year, and despite resilient gross margin and reduced operating expenses, underlying EBITDA decreased to $50 million for the year. After accounting for a one-off non-cash impairment of Oboe's Goodwill, the group's net loss after tax was $48.3 million, On an underlying basis, excluding the OBOS impairment and some restructuring costs, the group's net loss was $1.1 million. Net working capital ended minus 9.7% lower than July last year, with a $23.5 million reduction to inventory, a significant achievement given the sales result. The group's balance sheet position is stable, with $59.7 million net debt and approximately $230 million of available funding headroom. Moving to slide five, we've made some progress this year with highlights demonstrating the positive direction we are heading in, including we've demonstrated our ability to manage the controllables through challenging trading conditions. Gross margin continued to improve for Rip Curl and Oboz, offset by increased promotional activity for Kathmandu. Operating expenses reduced by $19.6 million on an underlying basis. We carefully controlled inventory and networking capital. with Ripkel and Oboe's inventory levels reducing back towards historical levels. Market conditions also saw us focusing on the basics of what core customers love most about our brands. Kathmandu has worked hard to refine its marketing execution, returning to its authentic outdoor heritage. I'll give you more of an update on our progress later in the presentation. Ripkel has reignited the search as the primary product, creative and marketing vehicle. This strong brand DNA has been injected into new innovative products and collaborations centred around athletes with execution tailored to regional markets. Our core customers continue to tell us that they love our brands, as demonstrated by our industry-leading NPS scores to Kathmandu and Rip Curl in Australasia. We continue to strengthen and grow our global brand presence. Rip Curl achieves strong sales growth in Indonesia and Thailand in particular, supported by pleasing direct-to-consumer sales results in Europe and South America. Kathmandu recorded sales growth in North America and Europe as we continue to test and learn with select accounts. This remains a small part of the business while we focus on stabilising and growing sales in ANZ. Oboe's global product positioning has been elevated with shop-in-shop trials in select locations within Kathmandu's Australasian store network. We also made some good progress on enhancing our digital capabilities to improve customer experiences and engagement. Oboz and Ripkill achieved record online sales this year. Oboz benefited from diversified sales channels, trading its online site effectively with increased traffic, conversion and strategic promotional activity. Ripkill achieved record online sales of nearly $38 million. Kathmandu's online sales showed improving trends through each quarter, implementing continuous improvements to improve customer experience, including additional payment gateways. For Rip Curl, we aligned the US point of sale with Group Systems and we launched Club Rip Curl Loyalty in North America. Moving to slide six, this provides a quick overview of the strengths of each of our brands. Each brand is iconic, authentic and distinct with highly credible and technical products and a loyal customer base. We believe that now, more than ever, strong brand identity is critical. We certainly have this for our three brands with category-leading products, and believe that each brand is well positioned for continued growth. On to slide seven, a reminder of the global reach of our brands and important consideration as macroeconomic conditions start to improve at different places in key global markets. We operate over 300 owned stores and our brands are sold in over 8,000 locations globally. Australasia is still our biggest market with over $600 million in sales, 80% of which is from Australia. North America generates over $200 million of sales. Europe, $100 million. Asia, $40 million. And South America, $20 million. Moving to slide eight and reminding you of our strategic pillars, our strategy remains unchanged. We are building brands to connect with customers around the world. Our goal is for Rip Killer to be recognised throughout North America, be among Europe's top three surf brands and maintain its reputation as the ultimate surf brand in Australasia, South America and Southeast Asia. Kathmandu is now attracting customers in Canada and Europe, proudly showing its New Zealand origins and maintaining its market leadership in Australasia. We are leveraging our infrastructure in Europe and Australasia to launch Oboes in Australia, New Zealand and Europe. We are elevating our digital experience by investing in platforms that deliver a world-class experience to everyone. Consumers, wholesale partners, suppliers and our own employees. Our digital platforms are designed to support a seamless customer experience. streamline processes and drive efficient operations to enhance brand visibility and the group's growth. To fuel our expansion efforts, we champion collaboration across our businesses. We are investing in programs that strengthen cross-brand connections, drive supply chain efficiencies and core system capabilities. We are unlocking product innovation by working together to ensure each brand's products resonate in the market and continue to lead in their respective categories. Operational excellence drives our success by improving working capital, scaling efficiencies and sharing financial benefits to maintain a sustainable growth trajectory. Finally, best for people and planet. The best businesses create lasting value for people and the planet. And this belief is at the heart of everything we do at KMD Brands. By fostering a culture of excellence and high performance, we're committed to attracting, developing and retaining top talent. At the same time, we are embedding our three ESG pillars, communities, climate and circularity across all aspects of our business. Through transparency, accountability and a commitment to positive impact, we're investing in a future where both people and planet thrive. By connecting our customers' employees with the great outdoors and making this connection central to our culture, we enhance people's appreciation of our planet. I'll now hand over to Ben Washington to take you through the financials in detail.

Thanks, Michael. Good morning, everybody. I'll now take you through the group's profit and loss for FY24. Our statutory results include the adoption of IFRS 16. For comparability, the impact of IFRS 16 has been excluded from our underlying results, as well as the amortization of Rip Curl and Oboe's customer relationships, one-off restructuring, and a one-off non-cash impairment of Oboe's goodwill. FY24 was a challenging year for the group and the industry at large. we saw cost of living pressures and increased geopolitical issues have a prolonged impact on consumer sentiment globally. These factors contributed to an unfavourable trading environment for our brands, particularly in retail for Kathmandu and wholesale for Ripkul and Oboz. Group sales for FY24 were 11.2% below last year's record result. However, we have seen continued improvement on first-half trends relative to last year in both the third and fourth quarters. Kathmandu's Australian sales trends have continued to improve in each quarter, supported by strategic store openings, enhanced in-store execution and the launch of new products. Economic settings in New Zealand have remained more challenging in FY24. Rip Curl and Oboz are both cycling record results last year. For both brands, direct-to-consumer sales outperformed wholesale channels. Wholesale customers for both brands continued to reduce their inventory holdings to de-risk their own business in the current consumer environment. Statutory EBITDA was $107.2 million for FY24. On an underlying basis, EBITDA was $50 million. A year-on-year decrease of underlying EBITDA of nearly $56 million, driven by a year-on-year sales decline of more than $120 million. Gross margin remained resilient, decreasing by only 0.2% of sales. Ripkill and Oboz continued to improve their gross margins in FY24, offset by increased promotional activity for Kathmandu. Operating expense control has been a real focus for each of our brands, finishing $19.6 million below lower than last year on an underlying basis, despite continued inflation pressures globally. Operating expenses benefited from restructuring last year and lower variable costs. The FI24 statutory result includes a $40.3 million impairment of Oboe's goodwill. The impairment is driven by a conservative view of the near-term wholesale market conditions. This one-off, non-cash item does not impact the day-to-day operations of the business and, as such, has been excluded from our underlying results. Moving to slide 11 now and looking more closely at the group's sales history, as you can see from these sales charts, just how strong last year's sales result was. All three brands and channels rebounded post-pandemic. This year we've seen a more challenging macroeconomic conditions and consumer sentiment in all global regions. Sales decreased year on year by 11.3% in Australia, 13.5% in New Zealand, 15.2% in North America, with Europe and the rest of the world holding up better than ANZ and North America, with 3.9% and 3.1% down year on year. Kathmandu's first half sale challenges were the key reason for the ANZ result, and we will talk more about that in the subdued wholesale market conditions in North America when we come to the Ripkill and Oboe's brand slides. Sales declines were spread across all channels to market, albeit with direct-to-consumer sales performing better than wholesale sales, especially for Ripkill and Oboe's. Drawing your attention to slide 12, Ripkill and Kathmandu have shown continued improvement on first-half sales trends during both the third and fourth quarters of FY24. For Ripkill, the direct-to-consumer retail store and online channels led the improved sales trends in the second half, supported by strategic new store openings in Asia, Europe and South America. Wholesale sales remain subdued throughout the year as wholesale accounts continue to reduce their inventory holdings to manage inventory risk in a challenging consumer environment. Sales trends in Kathmandu's largest market, Australia, have continued to improve in each quarter, supported by strategic airport and outlet store openings, enhanced in-store execution, and improved products. Oboe has benefited from diversified sales channels, achieving strong online sales growth with increased traffic, conversion, and promotional activity. Wholesale sales remain subdued throughout the year, impacted by post-pandemic industry challenge in the North American outdoor footwear category. Moving to slide 13, our omnichannel offering provides customers with the choice of in-store or online shopping. Whilst online sales have further moderated this year for Kathmandu, both Rootkill and Oboz have achieved record online sales in FY24. Kathmandu delivered $47.7 million in online sales in FY24, in line with pre-pandemic levels. Now compromising 13.3% of direct-to-consumer sales. Ripkill delivered $37.9 million online, significantly above pre-COVID-19 levels, now comprising 11.9% of direct-to-consumer sales. And Oboe delivered a record $7.4 million in online sales, a 31.7% increase year-on-year. Moving to our balance sheet on slide 14, we have a strong balance sheet position with low net debt, significant funding headroom and improving inventory levels. At the 31st of July 2024, the group had a net debt position of $59.7 million with significant funding headroom of approximately $230 million. In response to a challenging trading environment and working closely with our banking group, we have put in place amended covenants for the fixed cover charge ratio applying the next two measurement points being January and July 2025. Net working capital has decreased by more than $21 million year-on-year. Most importantly, inventory continues to moderate down and is $23.5 million lower than July last year, despite $4 million of currency impact. Ruku and Oboe's inventory positions continue to moderate back towards historical levels, with further moderation expected in the second half of FY25. On slide 15, as previously communicated, the dividend policy remains aligned to the group's earnings profile, with a target payout ratio of 50% to 70% of underlying net profit after tax. As a result of the FY24 operating performance and challenging market conditions, the directors have not declared a final dividend. Okay, moving to the brands. Each of our brands has experienced a challenging year in terms of weakened consumer sentiment, cautious wholesale customers, and ultimately lower sales. In this environment, our brands have worked hard to control gross margin, operating expenses, and working capital. Rip Curl was citing a record sales result for the brand last year. Sales this year were impacted mostly by wholesale customer caution. with total sales down 7.3% year-on-year. Direct-to-consumer channels performed comparatively well, with FY24 sales decreasing by 2.8%, again cycling record result last year, and reflecting weaker consumer sentiment in key global markets. Stronger direct-to-consumer results were delivered in Europe, Asia and South America, helped by store openings. Online sales grew by 8.6% to a record $37.9 million. and remain significantly above COVID-19 levels. Wholesale sales were 13% lower year on year, as wholesale accounts actively reduced their inventory holdings to de-risk their own business and the consumer environment. Gross margin increased 0.5% of sales, reflecting improved channel mix, improved pricing, along with reduced low margin and liquidation business in North America and Europe. Operating expenses are well controlled despite continued lockdowns. global inflation. Kathmandu total sales decreased 14.5% year on year, reflecting ongoing weakness in consumer sentiment. Australian FY24 sales decreased by 13.9% overall. Sales trends in Kathmandu's largest market have continued to improve each quarter. The New Zealand market is more challenging, with New Zealand sales decreasing 15.2% year on year. Online sales decreased by 18.9% to 47.7 million, which is in line with pre-COVID levels. Kathmandu's online sales showed improving trends through each quarter, supported by ongoing efforts to enhance customer experience, including the introduction of additional payment gateways. In the fourth quarter trading period, online sales decreased 1.5% year on year. Kathmandu recorded international sales growth as we continue to test and learn in select markets. At $3 million, this remains a small part of the business. Kathmandu international sales opportunity remains a larger long-term goal. While gross margin decreased 2.2% of sales, this was driven by specific clearance of end-of-line activity in August 2023. Increased promotional intensity through the fourth quarter and currency headwinds. Excluding the month of August 2023, gross margin for the remaining 11-month period was 1.4% of sales lower year on year. Operating expenses are tightly managed while facing continued inflationary pressure. Later in this presentation, Mike will give you an update on the progress Kathmandu has started to make to improve product and brand execution. Finishing up with Oboz. Oboz is cycling a record sales result for the brand last year. Sales this year were impacted by wholesale customer caution, decreasing by 20% year on year. Oboz benefited from a commitment to diversified sales channels with strong online sales growth. Online grew by 31.7% to a record $7.4 million, with increased traffic, conversion, and strategic promotional activity. The online channel remains a key growth opportunity for the brand. Wholesale sales were $23.1 million lower than last year as wholesale customers actively reduced their inventory holdings to de-risk their business and the consumer environment. After peaking through the pandemic, with strong sales growth of technical products, the North American outdoor footwear category has slowed. Participation levels and demand have now moderated, leaving the wider market with higher inventory levels and aggressive promotional behaviour. Gross margin improved by 2.1% of sales. with improved channel mix, improved pricing and new product introductions. We continue to invest in key areas of brand, product and online to support the long-term growth objectives, which now include international expansion. As the North American footwear market recovers from its cyclical inventory reduction and discounting phase, we expect to leverage this operating expense investment with sustainable growth. As I outlined earlier, the FY24 statutory result includes a $40.3 million impairment of OBOE's goodwill. This impairment is driven by a conservative view of near-term wholesale market conditions. This is a one-off, non-cash item and does not impact the day-to-day operations of the business. And as such, it has been excluded from our underlying results. I'll now hand you back to Michael.

Thanks, Ben. Next, we want to give you an update on Kathmandu's progress against the focus areas that we presented in our first half results release. Drawing your attention to slide 21, this is a summarised version of the slide that we presented in our first half results release. We acknowledge that while Kathmandu had been negatively impacted by a number of external factors, including COVID lockdowns, reduced tourism, changes in the competitive landscape and most recently softened consumer sentiment, Not all of Kathmandu's current challenges had been due to external factors. We outlined the areas across product and brand where execution had not been sufficient. This slide summarises the immediate focus areas of the Kathmandu team, led by CEO Megan Welsh, with the aim of exceeding the expectations of outdoor enthusiasts and ultimately returning the brand to sustainable sales growth. With product, the key focus is to reduce Kathmandu's reliance on outerwear by addressing customers' year-round needs with innovation and investment in broader categories, faster and more regular product drops, and an expanded third-party brand strategy. For brand, the key focus is to refine brand execution with brand marketing that is more authentic to the outdoors, an improved and more personalised loyalty proposition, and the delivery of a premium brand and product experience in-store and online. The aim is to bring to life an authentic outdoors connection with technical and sustainable features appealing to our outdoor enthusiast customers. Moving to slide 22, here is an update on Kathmandu's progress towards the key goal of reducing reliance on outerwear. Focusing on better addressing customers' year-round needs, whilst it is early days, there have already been some successful launches of innovative hike and outdoor active products, including the Trailhead Stretch and Seeker Active Ranges. Demonstrating a focus on faster and more regular product drops, we've already seen the second iteration of quick-to-market heritage fleece and T-shirts, with the initial launches driving strong sales. Focusing on an expanded third-party brand strategy, we've seen several additions to the footwear range, including On Running, Solomon and Teva, plus Hydro Flask, Blunt Umbrellas and Corgio travel accessories. To support Kathmandu's goal of reducing reliance on outerwear, A new product architecture has now been defined around the key activities of hike, outdoor active and adventure travel. Also, a material investment is being made in product design, development and merchandising talent. Coming for spring summer 2025, as shown in the images, we will further expand the outdoor active seeker range using innovative carbon capture technology. For hike, we will launch a new UPF range with excellent breathability, comfort and sun protection. For adventure travel, we are proud to launch an innovative, award-winning piece of carry-on luggage, which I will talk to in more detail in a few slides. Moving to slide 23, here is an update on Kathmandu's progress towards the key goal of refining brand execution. Focusing on brand marketing that is more authentic to the outdoors, a new creative agency has been engaged with the first campaign launch this month. The campaign showcases the ruggedness of New Zealand's outdoor landscape, with an authentic connection to feelings of happiness in the outdoors. You can see examples of this campaign coming to life in the images on the slide. Moving to slide 24, Kathmandu aims to exceed the expectations of outdoor enthusiasts by delivering a premium brand and product experience in-store and online. You can see in the store images on the slide an example where fixtures and fittings have been removed to elevate the brand and product experience. To enhance the customer experience and bring technical and sustainable features to life, we are focused on merchandising around the key activities of hike, outdoor active and adventure travel, improving signage to support activity wayfinding and opening floor layouts and repositioning fixtures and high walls for better sight lines, zoning and flow. Kathmandu is also finalising a store of the future design concept, which will be rolled out in Chadston, Victoria this financial year. I mentioned earlier that Kathmandu online sales have showed improving trends through each quarter this year. The online digital team have implemented continuous improvements, including a redesign of the e-commerce mega menu, search engine optimisation, and new payment methods. All of these have contributed to improvements in conversion and customer experience online. In summary, we have a clear strategy for Kathmandu built by the new management team who have demonstrated progress against that strategy already in the second half of FY24. We feel that continued improving sales trends in Australia through the third and fourth quarters of FY24 show us signs that the strategy is working. We believe that continued focus and execution will return Kathmandu to sustainable sales growth. Okay, moving on to our focus areas and the outlook for FY25. On slide 26, we highlight a sample of the latest innovations for our brands. Ripco continues a rich history of championing iconic surfing events. with the announcement of its latest event partnership for the iconic Eddie Arcao Big Wave Inventational. The world's best big wave surfers are invited to compete at Waimea Bay, Hawaii, in honour of legendary waterman Eddie Arcao. The most recent event attracted a huge global audience online, as well as nearly 50,000 spectators. Already, Ripkeller has seen strong merchandise sales and will continue to capitalise on the brand exposure and product sales for at least the next three years. Kamandu continues to push the boundaries of product innovation with the award-winning Feather Flight. This strong and durable carry-on luggage is impressively lightweight, in fact one of the lightest bags in its class globally for airline travel. This patent-pending product is an ISPO award winner for innovation in 2024 and will be available in stores this summer. And finally to Oboz, building on the commercial success of the Katabatic style, the brand's first venture into popular fast-hike category. Oboz will soon launch the new Katabatic LT, available in stores from February. This will be the lightest and most breathable collection to date, utilising Gore-Tex invisible fit technology. This is further demonstration of Oboz's market-leading innovation pipeline as consumers continue to move towards lighter, faster footwear. And finally, as we hit slide 27, I want to summarise our key focus areas for FY25. take you through a brief trading update and our outlook for the year ahead. Our concise focus areas for FY25 are as follows. First and most importantly, stabilise sales and return to growth. Grow gross margin. Continue to simplify our business. Continue to reduce working capital and use our inventory investments efficiently. Return to dividends. I have a brief update on our trading performance for the start of FY25. Direct-to-consumer sales for the first eight full weeks to 22nd September are as follows. Kathmandu Australia sales have increased by 2.1% year-on-year, a further improvement on the sales trend in the fourth quarter of FY24. Kathmandu New Zealand sales are down 23.2% year-on-year, cycling strong end-of-line clearance in sales in August last year. Kathmandu gross profit dollars for the first eight full weeks to 22nd September are are plus 5.1% above the equivalent period last year. Ripkel Global direct-to-consumer sales are approximately 5% lower year-on-year compared to FY24 direct-to-consumer sales of minus 2.8% year-on-year in a seasonally non-significant trading period. Wholesale forward orders are moderating from double-digit declines in FY24 to single-digit declines for the first half of FY25. We are seeing order book growth year on year for some regions in the second half of FY25, noting that sell-in is not yet complete. In terms of outlook, we remain cautious on consumer sentiment given the challenging global and macroeconomic environment. And we note that wholesale accounts remain cautious on pre-season commitments. Global inflationary pressures are easing, but it will take time to directly impact consumer spending. We remain focused on returning to sales growth, improving profitability in FY25. We believe that with our portfolio of iconic global brands and leadership in sustainability, we remain a unique investment proposition and well-placed for the future. Okay, time for questions. This now concludes the formal part of today's presentation. I want to thank all of you for your time taken to join this call. I would now like to open the call for questions.

If you wish to ask a question on the phone, please press star followed by one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. It is star one if you wish to ask a question. And your first question comes from the line of Guy Hooper from Jardim. Your line is open.

Hey, good morning. Look, let's start in the cap and do a trading update. I mean, it's positive to see the turnaround in gross profit dollars, but I guess can we unpack a few things just given there's a few things at play there. Can we assume gross profit dollar growth is also positive in Australia and even growing at a greater rate than what you've got for the whole brand?

Yeah, absolutely. With GP dollars being up across Australia and New Zealand for Kathmandu, definitely Australia as a bigger part of the business is in positive territory and certainly higher than the total Australian New Zealand number.

Yeah, great. And then I guess when we look at that sales update, and even in Australia where it is positive year on year, you still appear to be lagging against one of your key competitors. Now I know you've outlined a bunch of the changes that you've put in place across the brand and looking to put in place for the store. How should we think about success of those changes in FY25? What benchmarks should we be looking at?

Yeah, I think ultimately it comes down, as we've said, our focus is on stabilising sales and growing sales. We've seen continued improvement in the Kathmandu sales trend quarter on quarter and certainly what we expect to continue to deliver is a continuation of that trend. We expect sales to continue to grow and that will come from the innovative products and new products that we're launching into market, expanding into categories that historically we haven't sold as well or haven't sold at all and reducing that reliance on outerwear that we've mentioned at the half year and also at the end of year. So in terms of what success looks like for me, it looks like continued sustained growth. We've seen that moderation of declining sales through FY24 and we've started the first eight weeks of this year well, particularly in Australia. and that trend continues to improve, and we're certainly aiming that that trend will continue through FY25 and beyond.

Great, thanks. I guess one last one from me on the wholesale channel. Can you just talk what your feedback is from your partners on where inventory is at on the channel, and then also perhaps what you're hearing in terms of market share positioning and the sell-out rates?

Yeah, I think that obviously for a wholesale business, we've got different components across surf and outdoor. I think you have to separate those two discussions. I think as far as what we're seeing in surf, surf was probably having some inventory issues prior to the outdoor sector and therefore is processing them quicker, sorry, getting through them more quickly than outdoor. And so we certainly are seeing a return to some forward order growth for the second half of this financial year for orders that we've taken. So from that point of time, from that point of view, we do feel that a lot of the inventory issues on the surf channel have been dealt with and we should, certainly from our preliminary orders we're seeing in the second half, we do see a return to growth for that wholesale surf channel. I think with respect to outdoors, it's probably a little bit, lagging the surf channel in terms of processing, uh, inventory, uh, particularly in the U S market. I think there's still a ways to go and our forward orders, uh, suggest that, uh, for the second half as well. I think it could be a lag of, you know, uh, somewhat guessing, but you know, six to nine months. So I would think more likely, uh, be the first half of FY26 before we see a clear sign of growth, um, in the wholesale outdoor markets. Um, But that is a bit of a guess, and that's going to depend on what else happens across the broader macroeconomic environment.

Great. Thank you. Appreciate the answers.

No worries.

Thanks, Guy. Your next question comes from UBS. Your line is open.

Hi. Good morning, Michael and Ben. First question for me is just on your OPEX. So good to see an allying OPEX down 20 mil. Could you provide any guidance on FY25 OPEX expectations and appreciate there's operating leverage there, but can we expect further cost reduction?

Yeah, I think as I've said before, Bianca, I still think that we're, you know, we've probably got another 12 to 18 months to run of benefits of bringing the brands together and running through integration of the brands, particularly on the system side as we continue to advance operations our preferred group systems across the group. So with that, I do think that we can continue to control our expenses well. I'm not sure we'll see a total decline in expenses like we did this year. I think what we can do and what we can deliver is better than inflation. We'll have inflationary pressures on things like rent and employee costs and so forth, but I think offsetting that, some of the ongoing integration benefits we'll have. So I think the underlying trend in expenses will be very low single digits, you know, lower than inflation rates than we're seeing in each of the regions that we're operating in.

OK, thank you. And then just following on, yeah, just from the comments around rent. So I guess with the... You've made some changes to the Ketman Do store layout, which is good. I guess there are quite a few Kathmandu stores that seem quite large. Do you have plans to reduce the average square metre for Kathmandu stores going forward? And is there an opportunity there to reduce your lease expenses there in the long run?

Yeah, absolutely. As we've mentioned before, we do think that, you know, our long-term strategy of Kathmandu stores was probably on the higher side in terms of their square footage, square metreage, particularly in the New Zealand business. I think it's a case-by-case. We won't necessarily just default that all stores need to be smaller. We will look at case-by-case what makes sense from a commercial point of view. But we do think on average our square meterage that we have for Kathmandu stores will continue to decline. I believe over the last 12 months we've probably... move five to seven stores to a fairly significant lower meterage from, you know, either giving back some space to landlords or moving locations. So I think that will continue. And I think that with that, we'll get better and ongoing sales efficiencies from the Kathmandu business. And as you say, obviously the reduced rent there.

Okay, thank you. And then lastly, I believe you previously mentioned that the Katmandu brand turnaround would be around three years. How far along are we into that now, would you say?

Yeah, I think, you know, any turnaround of this nature does take some time, for sure. You know, I think at the half year, Megan and I were, you know, mutually discussing what we think the expectation is in terms of time. Look, I think Megan has been in the role now for at least a year, so we're certainly at least a year into that timeline. Obviously, there were some changes made and starting with changes made prior to Megan's arrival. So, look, I think we're coming up to us halfway. We've got some good, clear green shoots that we believe from the strategy. We think that's working. We see that through our improved quarter-by-quarter approach performance in the second half and into the first eight weeks of this year so I think that gives us confidence that the strategy is the right strategy we're going in the right direction and there's really no reason why we can't continue to see a good trend moving forward in our Kathmandu business and that's what we aspire to achieve so as far as how long You know, in terms of – it really depends on where we're aiming to be. But, you know, as I said earlier for the first question, you know, what we're trying to do is just deliver ongoing growth quarter by quarter moving forward, and that's our focus. And we can do that while continuing to improve our margin, moderate our costs, and deliver some continued efficiency inventory. What we will have is a good, profitable business.

Okay, great. Thanks, Michael. That's all from me.

Cheers. Thanks, Bianca.

As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question, please press star one. And your next question comes from Paul Carrara from Fawcett Bar. Your line is open.

Hey, good morning, Michael, Ben. Maybe if I just pick up on Kathmandu. My first question is there's been a lot of talk about what we've been doing to change the product and the branding. and you've seen those quarter-on-quarter sales declines improving, but you're also comping against weaker periods in the final quarters of last year. So is there anything sort of specific you can talk to around, you know, the changes that the business has been implementing actually improving sales trends, or is this just a case of your comps getting a little bit easier?

No, I think, you know, obviously, you know, relatively comparative sales you know you have to look at what we were trading on last year you know what we do know is a tough environment for all consumers so you know all the variables have to take into the account you know we think that we are delivering better on product you know if we look at what's coming into store and what has come into store over the last couple of months we think our product execution is continuing to prove Of course, offsetting that, we have the ongoing challenges of the consumer environment, particularly in the New Zealand economy. So there are a few factors at play. You know, what gives us confidence that the strategy is working is that we're seeing good, positive signs in categories outside of outerwear, which we've clearly stated we need to reduce our reliance on outerwear. You know, we've seen categories like packs perform well our Bottoms program continuing to improve. We mentioned the continued success we're seeing on our T-shirt and our Heritage Fleece quick-to-market program and also our third-party brand strategy that's coming in. So we're seeing good positivity and green shoots of performance in there in categories that historically we haven't necessarily done as well in. So that just gives us the confidence that the strategy is the right one and that the team is executing well and that should continue to translate to... continue the improvements irrespective of what our comps are.

Yeah, no, thank you. That's good colour. And then maybe just on store rollout, like you guys have kept the 200 store target for Kathmandu. You've previously spoken to opening 12 a year, tapered that down to sort of five this year, which is understandable given the backdrop. But what is the expectation in the next coming years, do you think?

Yeah, I think we stand by our – we think that the Australian New Zealand market in particular can hold probably up towards 200 stores. We've opened a few airport stores that are performing in line with expectations. We're fairly happy with the stores that we've opened. I do think over the next six to 12 months, we'll just wait to see what the market does. You know, we don't want to be aggressively opening stores to then find that, you know, the economies continue to soften. We've got work to be done to continue to improve our brand and product execution. So that's our focus at the moment. And we're well aware, of course, that we're not paying dividends at the moment. So I think a period, at least a short period of constrained capital, just to make sure that we get ourselves back to paying dividends to our shareholders. and focus on our brand and product execution and really get that firing as well as we would like. And I think that will set us up really well going into next financial year. So FY26 to, I guess, get back onto the program of adding stores for Kathmandu.

You know, I think that makes sense. And then maybe just the final one, changing tech a little bit to Ripkill. and DTC in particular. We've seen some data internally that suggests some of your key competitors are losing a bit of share, and you guys might be picking up some of that slack. Is that sort of consistent with what you guys have been seeing internally?

It's hard to tell. Most of our competitors these days are licensed in nature and have operated by different people around the world, so it's very hard to see any of that intelligence. But we feel that off-record highs, we're holding up, We think relative to market, you know, and, you know, if, you know, we think that we're probably picking up a little bit of market share, not major market share, but certainly picking up some market share given, you know, off record highs, we're seeing fairly low single digit declines. So that gives us confidence that we continue to be on the right path. And, you know, our vision is to be the ultimate surfing company. And we will continue to focus on that as we have for the last 50 years.

Thanks. Maybe if I just dovetail that quickly into your view of market share in Kathmandu, are you happy with how that's been tracking over the last 12 months internally?

Look, obviously we've had major challenges in that space over the last five years. That's well documented. As I said, I think we've got the right strategy. I think we've got the right team and we're seeing definitely some green shoots from that strategy and team. So again, that does give us confidence that we're on the right path. Um, and if we continue to execute as well as we have recently, there's no reason why we can't return to growth. And with that, uh, returning to, you know, building some market share, you know, we still have, we still are the number one brand in the market. And sometimes it's hard to be number one because everyone's coming for you. But we think with these changes that we've made, we can continue to either hold our market share. And certainly as we continue to execute, build market share. So, um, Yeah, hard to comment on what's happened in the last 12 months, but certainly from my point of view, we're confident for the future.

All good. I might leave it there. Thanks, Michael.

Thanks, Paul.

As a reminder, if you wish to ask a question on the phone, please press star followed by one on your telephone keypad. There are no further questions on the phone, so I'd like to have that.

Okay, I have two questions from Kieran Culling from Craig's for you. You've addressed this to an extent already, Michael, but I'll read it out nonetheless. If we think back to the half year resolved, you expected that the Kathmandu brand would be able to defend last year's winter performance. Instead, sales in the second half came in 8.5% lower. At the same time, we have seen MatPak continue to print solid numbers. I would like to understand whether the result versus your expectations was a function of general macro conditions or whether you think the product piece is still an issue.

Well, I think I can't comment on, you know, competitors' performance and what they've done and so forth. But certainly as far as our own performance, we've stated quite clearly that we need to reduce our reliance on outerwear. I think in terms of our innovations and new product that we brought to market this past winter, it was still very much heavily weighted towards our outerwear business. We saw some improved performance across the territories through winter. Was it in line with our expectations? Of course, we always like to have better performance. And, you know, if we could have flicked our fingers, we would have had more innovations coming through in non-installation. But, you know, the team is new. They're working at a quick pace. It does take time to build out that product and deliver that product in execution. We'll see that certainly with spring, with some of the innovations we talked about with our Seeker range and our Feather Flight bags. And we'll continue to see that season after season as the current team moves into new categories and expands existing categories. So, yeah, I think to wrap up in terms of winter, look, it's obviously a tough economic environment. Probably New Zealand was harder than we expected. I think in terms of that economic environment, that's probably the one area that, was more difficult than we expected. But outside of that and the other area internally, look, ideally we would have had some more products outside of outerwear, but we knew that going into the winter. We just probably thought the outerwear would perform a little bit better than it did. But that said, we're happy with the underlying trend in terms of our quarter-on-quarter, month-on-month performance getting better. And as I said, the green shoots that we've seen through Q4 and through the first eight weeks of FY25, give us confidence it's the right strategy.

Thank you. Another question from Kieran. How are you thinking about CapEx and new store openings for the year ahead?

Yeah, look, we're fairly subdued. I think in an environment where there's still ongoing economic uncertainty, obviously elections in the US, issues in the Middle East, and the fact that we're well aware that we're in a situation where we're not paying dividends at the moment, I think that certainly translates to a period of constrained capital. I don't think that we're giving up any potential growth by constraining our capital for the short term, because I do think we've got some immediate priorities to continue to build out our product offering, particularly for Kathmandu. But certainly Rip Curl can do with some continued innovation and focus on its product execution as well. So I've got no concerns about focusing our short term on our product execution, on our brand execution. while we reduce our inventory, improve our cash flows, get ourselves back into an ability to pay dividends. And I think as we then go into FY26, we'll be well positioned to look at our retail growth strategy in particular and expand that. That said, we will still continue to spend capital on our systems. As I mentioned before, in terms of expenses, we do think that we can continue to deliver integration savings from, moving to the same platform. So we still have a fairly robust IT expansion in this next 12 months, but we will see our CapEx continue to moderate down from the FY24 levels.

Thanks. That's all from me.

Okay. With no further questions, we'll call it a day. So thank you, everyone, for participating. That's all.