eQ Oyj

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, there were a few minutes left.

Let's start. Welcome. Let's take a quick look at the last few years. How did the market situation affect us? The market situation was not particularly favorable for the EU. In general, the economic situation in Finland and Europe was rather low. which you can see in the stock exchange rates. It's a difficult place for the economy, and it's related to the high rates that we started last year, as well as the unemployment rate in the government sector, which led to the fact that it affected quite a lot of businesses. Of course, on the financial side, as we know, in 2023 and continued in 2024, and also due to the fact that the demand for production has not yet been there during the last year. The currency remains very tight during the last year, and liquidity was really small. If we look at the Finnish commodity markets, it was about 2 billion, if I'm not mistaken, commercial real estate transactions, which were even lower in the year 23, when it was 10 billion a year higher, so we are 20% of that. In addition, this high rate level and also the European exchange rate, although the European exchange rate generally went better than in the Nordic countries, where it dropped a bit, it affected the loss of private equity. 23 was slow, but 24 also continued to be slow, even though it was slightly activated in 2023, but it was still slow. And that affected our movement in general. And of course, the anonymity of the Helsinki Stock Exchange also affects customers and customers' use of the business, which is quite common. that Finland and the Nordic countries, or perhaps Europe, are superior in comparison to others, which then affects the allocation and the appearance. So, that's why the year hasn't been in such a way that it's good to remember.

Last year, after all, we had

In the negative year, the net profit fell by 70% during the year and the profit by 13%. It's good to notice that the last quarter's profit is significantly lower than the whole year. There are a few things that are of great importance. The first is the fact that in terms of tax protection, 1.8 million euros were deducted from a certain fund, which had a tax return of 22 and 23 years. And if we look at this right from the start, then in 2022, Tuospaltio was created in the year of 1912. The world was quite different. It was one of our secondary funds, which at the time was above interest rates. Quite a lot. In 1923, it was still very above interest rates. In 1924, it was no longer taken into account. It was Kihku's Kaa, but now we've gone under Aitakoron. Aitakoron is 10%, and it's 10 times lower than 10. So, the way we do this, we do it the same way every year. And when it goes there, it's written down. Or we can look at the table from a short time ago. Let's put it this way. It doesn't affect the whole thing much. In our normal challenges, Aitakoron is only 7%. and how much of the ultraviolet rays are really significant. There is no risk of that happening. Another thing was that the temperature was slower in June 4th than in 2023. The last quarter of the year was then worse than in 2023. And of course, there was also

on the interest rate side.

The result is 66 cm in the cost-benefit ratio. It is still at a better level at the concern level, the equity level, and the old age level, as we will soon get to that. The GDP is about 17 million, and the investments, coincidentally, are the same number, which is mainly in our own funds. And is the difference 66 cm? Our principle is that If there is a surplus of cash flow, it is distributed. Now there is no surplus of cash flow, and we thought that the return was the right way, and we could move forward with it. As far as the rolling progress is concerned, we can look at the fact that, of course, we are all disappointed that the return has dropped. We must remember that the development in 2020 from the end of the year 2022, there was a very strong rise, where the weight was very long in the quarter-finals. If we look at the long-term trend of 2014, or if we go back to 2011, when we went from 10 to 19 millimetres, we are now quite close to the long-term trend. Now it's good to remember that we can't always hope for the worst. but we have to look at the long-term goals. The low-income situation is still the most important, even though the potential of this private equity is very large. Let's get back to that. The profit is, of course, like this, so we don't need to comment on it.

And of course, we don't have high stakes and we are fully committed to it.

There are a few things on the debt management side. A 25-year-long SFR study has been carried out every year, in which we are interviewing about 100 of Finland's largest debt investors. We have been in use for four years, from the first year of 2020 to 2023. We have been in touch. Last year, We have used a few percent of the unit. Our usage has increased. It is an excellent quality. It fell for the first time in five years, so we were not first. However, the differences are small. The most significant factor in this, as the answers have been looked at and gone through, is the production of interest rates. Probably also partially. The fact that salaries have been increased, even though they have been well managed, but it's only visible because it's so big. Our customers have been forced to buy from us, so it has only had an impact on them, even though our purchasing side has managed to make the market look okay. There is nothing wrong with that, but it has only had an impact on the quality assessment. The quality assessment is also divided into different factors. On the other hand, we don't see any drop. But in any case, our goal is to get back to the top. Of course, we're happy that it's dropping, but we just want to make clear what our position is and what our goal is, and where we want to get back to. We've talked a lot about responsibility. It's very much in the middle of us. There are a few things, such as the ESG Prime of ISS, where we look at all three ESG things, and there you have to achieve certain criteria in order to get there, and we are there at the top ten, we have achieved that, we are very satisfied with it. PRI, if we have been there, then 15 years, today it will be a year full. five stars have been achieved in all of these, and we are all significantly above the median, so it's good to be very satisfied that we are there. And what is really important to us, and we all understand that the impact of being satisfied with work is extremely important for the development and performance of our business, and it has remained at an excellent level. We do it twice a year, and the response rate is very high. I don't remember, 90. Well, over 90. It's in every case that the response rate is very high. It's 4.6 or 2.3. It's a very good result. I would like to note that it has been tight for a couple of years, so you can imagine that it would look like this, but the team leaders, the management of the reserve industry, the management of Arvium, have done a fantastic job in that they have to take care, discuss and spar, and that's what we want to do. Of course, it has an impact on the whole of our work, and through that, the customer's satisfaction and also the results, so it is an excellent Esimerkiksi GRES-puolella, kiinteistöpuolella, niin siellä ollaan saatu erinomaisia arviointeja. Myöskin PE-puolella, siellä on Euroopassa, niin ollaan saatu todella hyvät arviot. Tämä menee jokapäiväiseen tekemiseen ja sitä kautta se toimii hyvin. Saanko kysyä? Saatottakaa. Tuon sitoutuneeseen mainitsit, että miten teillä on tuo 24 hours a year. You might print it in a year, but... There hasn't been any change. Just a couple of percent. Yes, there hasn't been much change.

We don't have any new employees.

That's a good question. We don't have any new employees. It's hard to say. Usually, the whole market

It's a picture that has been created, and when you talk to different people, we have appreciated the work ethic and the competitive ability to reward, and especially this satisfaction, it also counts in the market, and it is important for all people.

Still on top of everything. Go ahead. Did you have a question or a comment? Yes.

Okay, let's move on to the next one. Preliminary results calculation.

A change in the personality. A change in the personality as a net profit. The profits. Come quickly and take a look.

Profit. Can you put the mic on or let me just get it on. There's a mic on top of something. Or now it's on. Good.

There it is. Profit.

Let's see if we can get it out of the way. All right. The turnover dropped by 13%, and the profit by 19%. As we just went through the chart, the profit-benefit ratio is 42%, which is an amazing figure. Of course, it didn't go as well as the top-line drop, and there was a lot of cash flow, but it works well. Congratulations to all of you, also in a situation like this, where there has been a lot of AP. We will probably open up more about the numbers later. Maybe we can talk about where it comes from. The good side was last year that only the hardware side really came to light, but in the traditional side, we got growth, Aumi grew, In terms of PrivateEquity, the price increase in sales, well, in terms of revenue, of course, fell due to the fact that it was 1.8 millibus, that its duration was smaller last year than in the second year. On the credit side, there is a value of 0.7, which is due to the fact that last year there was a minus mark, so it comes from there, that there is no credit in the product line.

This is just math, but you can see where the price increase is coming from.

If we take a look at the follow-up, we can see that the tax returns are equally distributed than before. Of course, we don't hope that one will fall and the other will rise. Of course, both will rise, but we are over 40% private equity, less than 40% in the traditional 15% gap. If we look at the types of salaries, of course, it is our responsibility that these are at least management salaries, the main ones that have come here, so that the small contribution is somehow better than the catch-up. So, it's not that much of a surprise that this is how the development is going. There's nothing there. You can also look at this kind of perspective that we just showed, how we have developed the last 10 years ago and now 7 years ago. The traditional side, we see that in 2018 it has gone up somewhat, but quite steadily. Private equity has gone up somewhat all the time. The movements there are quite small. Of course, when we get back to the pause period, to the production budgets, they are of course significant when they start to come. But now, of course, the policy has also been significant. But it has been cut, and we don't see any kind of change in it. We don't have to take this into account, but all predictors are looking at the world, looking at Europe, looking at tomorrow, so investing in the sector without a list will come together for its benefits. whether the biggest growth in 2024-2025 will certainly not be due to the allocations and the like, but we can see that the demand is very high. On the construction side, when it is mentioned that we have come down, it is good to take the perspective of where we were, that we are still growing significantly. So, yes, Elinomainen on kaiken kaikkiaan, mutta totta kai vähemmän kuin mitä muutama vuosi sitten kuviteltiin. Hallintosvalossa ei muuta kuin 4% kasvua. Tästä näkee myöskin totta kai sen, että katsotaan oikealla puolella vapaicharttia, niin kiinteistöosuus 20% AUMista, niin näkee, että se on parhaiten tuottavaa prosentuaalisesti näistä meitä.

or sectors.

In the traditional way, last year, and it has often been the case for us, and perhaps also for quite a few of us, when the stock market is not doing particularly well, we have left the benchmark that year. Last year, 40% or less than 40% of our funds went to the index. The interest rates went to the index, or rather to the unit. The Finnish government did a lot of work on that. Last year, the Finnish government chose us as the best fund. In practice, we were the only other fund in the index. The long-term track is 62% for three years, 77% for five years, and that's what is managed by the customers. That's what the long-term track is. It's good, and we believe that we can continue to do so. This is changing, and we can already see from the beginning of the year that there is a long way to go. As I said, on the investment side, in the views and answers, we see that we believe that the bottom line has been set. The profit of the social investment sector over the past year has been positive. It has been slightly positive since the beginning of the second quarter. In any case, it is easy to get profit from the establishment of the sector. with a negative return, but if we look at the returns there, our view is that their rise has fallen. Of course, you can always have individual properties where the future, let's talk more about the market and the sector in general, does not see that there would no longer be any of these. On March 3rd, the YGIN the books that were paid in October. You can't see them there. They were paid in September before the beginning. But now they are paid. So, in a couple of months, they were also paid, the books that were paid. You have to realize that this is a different kind of market. Let's say that there are a couple of billion volumes here. If you look at how much has been sold here in 2023 and 2024, it also indicates high prices in the real estate funds we have. Excuse me, can I ask a question?

Yes, go ahead. Do you normally have share payments in the real estate funds?

The distribution of the revenue is based on the income of the fund. The legislation states that you don't have to pay at least 80% of the income. 75%. 75% has to be paid out, and we will pay it out by the end of March. I mean, by the end of February, but by the end of March.

Yes, that's right. Now that there are 26 million signs for the 4th district, could you explain the deal with Ilmarinen, which you have already announced, but is it a lion's share, or if you're looking for something like that?

I can probably think of it that way, that the number of signs is quite limited.

Four districts have been moved, so we're going to take the smallest ones. Let's take the ones in the district.

If we decide to... Well, as far as the prediction is concerned, at some point, when you stopped creating these canes, there might be something to point out. What should we think? What kind of numbers are there? Because it changes quite a lot.

It seems to me that we stopped eating when we started. I don't remember ever telling them.

We did tell them. Summa eläin, kun sieltä voi tulla peruutuksia, ja sitten arvonmuutoskin vaikuttaa siihen. Me huomattiin, että siinä oli niin iso muutos, että se on sitten parempi kertoa, kun ne oikeasti selville on.

Voi sillä tavalla sanoa, että ne lunastukset, mitkä joulukuun loppuun mennessä kerrottiin kesäkuulle, niin oli matalammat kuin mitä oli kesäkuusta joulukuussa. So, there is some kind of diminishing, but it is quite clear that it requires that the yield must rise. And now that the yields have already dropped somewhat, and you said that in the social industry uusi rahoitussopimus tai uusi laina ja niin poispäin, niin sanotaan... Ja jos tuottavaatimukset ei nouse, niin oletusarvohan pitää silloin olla se, että tänä vuonna päästään järkeväältä kohtuulliseen tuottoon. Ainakin YKissä. Eikä kiinni, jos mahdollisesti sitä vähän alempaa, mutta kyllä se siitä lähtee menemään liikkeelle, että heti kun me saadaan ne tuotot järkevään ja kun markkina alkaa vetää, And for us, the most important thing is market liquidity, like for all other open markets. As soon as market liquidity starts to improve, we and others will be able to get rid of it. And when that's done, there won't necessarily be any new funds. Varmaan vaikuttaa psykologisesti ihmisiin se, että jos tietää, että siellä on vastuullisuus, että pitäisikö munkitään tehdä. Ne tulee kohtuullisen suurella lädillä. Mutta se on ihan mahdoton lähteä ennustamaan, mihin ne menee.

Uskomme kyllä vakaasti, että tämä vuosi on oikeasti parempi kuin 2024.

We can see that there are very few transactions, but how is the general trend? Is your perception that foreigners have started to pay more attention to this?

Yes, it has always been the case that the activity doesn't grow in Finland, it grows elsewhere. If we go to Sweden, the activity has increased there. What is also very positive is that, as I said, the five-year funding It was very tight. Still, if you look at the European funding, not just the state, but the whole country, I think it was like this. When I looked at some statistics on the leverage side, 80% was new funding. 20% new. I would just say that not a lot of new funding is being funded yet. But now it has changed. In a limited sector of the economy, the payment of the loan is also started. It's always like this. When the interest rates rise, the margins are really high. When the interest rates fall, the margins fall. When the rates are high, the money is definitely needed. Even if the money is a bit in the bag, it goes down. It has always been like this, and it will continue to be like this, and we believe that it will improve. But of course, the problem is that there are few domestic buyers. If we look at the domestic market, then these open markets have been, and in general, markets that are also closed, have been a very big part of this market, that we don't get these large The top 10 investors have a lot of support. Well, I'll give an example. Keva has made some significant moves and is also in the public sector. Some of those activities must be avoided. There are activities, but only a few. But yes, let's talk about it. Or do you want to add something? No, of course not. I've seen many times what the situation is. Fundamentals are starting to change. The rate level is something else than it was a few years ago, a few moments ago, a month ago and a quarter ago. These are the key issues. For example, the main issue is the investment in real estate. Sony has taken those issues away. This is an example that really significant and distressed purchases We haven't seen it during the financial crisis, because there are areas where cash flows are the most important. The most important thing is, in my opinion, whether those areas are questionable. Then it's a matter of pricing. But Finland and this environment and others, they are questionable. We don't do or live in this business anyway. But the fundamentals are starting to change. As Janne has just said, now we see those movements in the world. Pohjoismaissa ja varsinkin Ruotsi on nyt semmoinen, jossa rupeaa olemaan. Nythän tulee sieltä jo tietoa, että tänä vuonna... Mehän ei musta itse siellä sitä jo, että esimerkiksi Ruotsalaiset pörssiyhtiöt, kiinteistöpuolella rupeaa tänä vuonna olemaan todennäköisesti netto-ostajia. En ollut yield gap player, nyt se on siellä, nyt se yield gap on kääntynyt kohtuullisen houkuttelemasta, kyllä se on varmaan aika lähellä. First of all, of course, you have to pay the rents. How is the long game? You had a lot of challenges before this. After that, you had the funding solution, which was not done in an optimal situation. Now you have the rents. The long-term profit is starting to be a bit sluggish. How do you see the movement? In the long run, there is still growth potential. I have a follow-up question to that. How do you see your product offering in this new situation? You have been doing strategic work for three years. What do you see as bigger? I'll answer that question first. I'm not a politician, but when it comes to social care, it's an exceptional product. quality and still look at its medium maturity and low use and its locations and the need that it has on the other hand, it's good and that's why, even though the sales have been huge in terms of the amount of euros, we have been able to sell and sell in an orderly manner so that it has been somehow managed to be at the same or even a little over the previous valuation, which is It's amazing. We're looking into it, and it's still two times bigger than the real estate fund. The real estate is just like that. Different sectors are in different situations, and part of it is the daily goods side. It's still going well. If you look at it that way, the product or the equipment, it still performs very well and gives good results. On the business side, it is completely dependent on what the location is, what quality and what kind of equipment it is. The use of time is quite large, but on the other hand, the use basis is, apart from a few designated locations, like modern and new equipment, That's okay. On the logistics side, there's even more interest there. If we look at the industrial side and the production side, it's been a big sector. Last year and tomorrow, it was a big sector in terms of transactions. If we look at Europe, it changes a lot. En osaa sanoa, että voi miettiä sitä, että onko... Kasvumahdollisuus ja kasvumahdollisuus on suuri siinä vaiheessa, kun tuotot tulee hyväksi. Mutta on se hankalampi sektori ehdottomasti kunto yhteensä.

Se onhan se.

Asunnothan on semmoisessa jutussa taas, että jos miettii tilannetta, niin kyllähän nyt on kaikkein houkuttelevi tilanne. that is the basis for the investment. So, you don't get to sleep. You don't get to show it. It's not easy, but we'll figure it out and discuss what the situation is. I don't think it's better to take a little longer, because the investment base is so small. You have many subsectors on the cost side that are attractive. And this change of business is not going anywhere in this country. These are different, and on the other hand, it is good that it has been divided in some way. And then, when there is not one fund in which everything is mixed, then it may look stronger in those, but maybe if there are investors, it is better that you can decide for yourself whether you want to put it in the beginning. to private or social enterprises, and then go to the one that is best for you. In terms of private equity, last year, again, in terms of fundraising, it was an excellent opportunity to see what the market was like, over 300 million, all in all. that were closed due to the pandemic, which is a great support. If we look at the size of the fund, it was a bit smaller than in 2022, but it wasn't surprising in any way on the same secondary side. Now we are traveling to the US, where the first loan was made 115 billion. And the good thing about the UK is that, in all of these funds, the overall results of the EU-European and the EU-American funds are excellent. And when you think about the Finnish investment experience, I think everyone has understood and learned in recent years that the EU-America is worth investing in, and that's the way it is. I don't think there have been better markets than in Northern Europe. It's not difficult to go there yourself. We have a long way to go.

We firmly believe that there will be a lot of demand for it. The new map, the First Close, is the last one.

At least in the last couple of years, have been bigger. Is this an exceptional experience, or is it at the same time something that has been very small in the past? Let's hope that we don't go there and say that this will come to pass, but it is quite a long time ago that I started a little bit here when looking at the portfolio of many investors, so when the private equity exit has come, they see that there is no need to come along in the first course, when they almost know that it is still open. They wait until later and hope that the exit is open at some point and they get a little bit of money back. And at the same time, what also helps, of course, is that these local market shares rise, and then the allocation percentage drops. It's just as good, even if we yritetään kertomaan meidän asiakkaille, että se vintage jakauma, ja myöskin maatieteen jakauma on äärimmäisen tärkeetä, että sä diversifioit sitä sinne niin, ja tietysti riippumatta siitä, minkälainen vuosi on, niin sitten kun tullaan lähelle jotain prosenttia ulkoilta, puhutaan, että kyllä nyt tehdään, ja sitten mieluummin vähän katsotaan, mahdollisesti pannaan vähän pienemmäksi, ja siis kerrotaan, mitä tulee, ja voidaan sitten mahdollisesti tehdä vielä seuraavat vuodessa isompi, tai sitten tehdään se ensimmäinen merkitavassa silloin, This is how it works. But I believe that it is a good opportunity. What about VC? You have been in the cycle for a while. The final close has taken a while. How long has the investment been? It has been much slower than it has been on the other side.

than probably this year. Well, then, this is a bit of a joke, but it's quite significant.

All in all, in all of this, I don't know if I should say it myself, but these are the best things. Tähän mennessä olemme jaksottaneet 15,4 miljoonaa tätä catch-upia. Tuossa näkyy SF2, missä oli tämä 10 % luotto. Tämä kerroin 1,3-1,4 ihan sama kuin se oli vuosi sitten. Eli kerroin mielessä, se ei ole ainoa mitään tapahtunutta, kun aika menee pidemmälle, niin se tällä hetkellä It's digital, so we don't know when it will come together. But we know that this is what it was written about. There are four funds in Ylhää, and a couple of funds in Ohjelmarahasto. We have a list of the funds that will be approved next year. What we wanted to do, on se, että kun nämä on erittäin vaikea arvioida. Me ollaan itse tehty tämä itsellemme niin, että meillä on tämä kvartaaleittain. Meillä on arvio siitä, millä kvartaaleilla tulee. Täällä voi olla, että joku näistä on hilkulla siinä, mille puolelle nämä tulee. We still want to make sure that we don't get any negative feedback about what year these are for. These have been done accordingly, but everything is also connected to how this Brexit market So, as you can see from these, they are significantly above the 10% threshold. So, we will continue, in the coming four years, according to our estimate, the coming funds for this product chain. If it is estimated that it will come after four years, the catch-up is divided into four. If there are three years left, we take a third of how much catch-up we have left. That is the matrix of how this works.

All in all, The value of the fund was written at 48 million euros.

That is the amount that is based on the current profit for the investors. We have included that amount in the fund. To put it simply, we put all of these 20,000 euros

And it's very... Then it has to happen in a very special way that this doesn't happen. Were there any questions or comments about this?

Was this a bit confusing?

As a clarification, the growth does not come from the growth of the cycle, but from the fact that we get to the winning balance stage. After that, the growth rate comes and the result is calculated. To Antti, as a clarification, somewhere it was that the winning balance growth grows, but the cycle does not grow, but the result grows from the fact that we get to the winning balance stage and after that...

The catch-up comes pretty quickly. You start to divide the PAN 7 part and then there you have the rest. And also, maybe this is our episode, I didn't say it, but in 2023 it was 6.3 or 4x or something like that. Last year it was 5.3. And this year it's 4.4. So basically, what's being distributed there, it's kind of like, let's go through it with a scale, it's a mathematical scale, how much goes into it. So we don't take any view of it. The view is taken of when it comes. And it's distributed there. So that's why in the first quarter, we'll get a total of 1.1 million euros.

If the catch-up phase goes on, it will be shared for a longer period of time. Now, for example, for the first year, it will be a little smaller if it is shared for a longer period of time.

We don't have any idea about it ourselves. The amount of money needed for the implementation is, of course, rare. SL2 went there, but the world was so different when Exifte and Vekka went on for two years, that it was different, a little below 10.

But anyway... Maybe we can...

There is the estimated amount of the profit balance, where the euros are, so they are the ones that we have within the range. So it ends up at 11,000 euros.

Then there is the S&P 3,000, and on the other side there are the ranges. 28,000 is the range that Joukun pressed. Yes. Corporate Finance.

A good year started there. The company started as the founder of Corporate Finance in early August. It gained a lot of momentum. Last year, there were two real estate investments. One of them has been published. The other one hasn't been published yet, but it has been implemented. On the business side, There were four transactions. The first one was PASPO.

The second one was the shipping of the owner of the company.

The second one was in October. The third one was in October. The fourth one was in October. The fifth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October.

The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth one was in October. The sixth

There has been a lot of profit and loss because of that. Last year, I saw that the profit and loss was quite close. In the middle of the decade, it was perhaps slightly below the market. There hasn't been anything particularly good, especially on the financial side. It was obviously bad. The market has, of course, a great impact, but more so when it comes to the individual transactions that go on the market, where there is a lot of salary and potential. The investments also turned to the US. was a very negative cash flow. Now it has gone to the bus, and the result is also not much clearer.

From 2016, it is found from six sources.

The number of shareholders has dropped somewhat, but still, and a good number of stock owners. The view. It has probably already happened here. We tried to open it up as much as we could on the real estate side. We believe that this year will be better in terms of the view, which at the moment is that the stock market continues to fall and the Finnish economy of Europe is thriving. However, the real estate sector is also responsible for this, both for the coronavirus, to how the economy develops. If there is no economic activity, the economy will not develop in the same way. In any case, no matter what the market is, the price of real estate and real estate prices will drop this year, which is only due to the fact that when the profits have come, the prices will drop by five.

and this is not there.

On the part of Travitecmit, as I said, it is believed that the allocations will increase, the interest rates will increase as the number of salaries increases, and on the part of Travitecmit, the tax revenues are estimated to increase this year from last year. But due to the quietness of the exit market, the functionalities have moved forward a bit. And as we saw in the slide just now, in 2026 we will be able to get to that stage. The tradition goes a long way according to how the market has developed.

Now you can ask your questions.

I'd like to start with the P&E side of things. The allocation is rising, and there's still a lot of work to be done. There have been a lot of competitors in the market. You've been alone for a long time, so how do you see it? We see that there will be a lot of competitors. It's good to remember that the way we... sell these funds, and our focus is on the funds that are invested in small companies. In the same way as in the traditional way, especially in the traditional way, a lot of investors, if we are talking about large-scale investors, have one, two, even three stockholders per asset class. And what we see on the B side here, and when we look at the returns with investors, we are fully convinced that in this small, and let's say medium-sized sector in Europe, since Genki has small companies, Genki and Mittenkaava have small companies, so we will probably be able to maintain our market share to an incredible extent. The other thing is that we have 15 program investors. Half of our funds go to others, and the other half goes to others. The investor side also has a different field. Otherwise, our funds don't invest in mega funds. Quite a lot of other competitors here invest in bigger funds. In our opinion, it's good that these investors... Many of them use something else, also on the private tech side, so I would take the idea from someone else to this other sector that we have. But of course, in some way it changes. That's the way it is. But since we're still at such a low percentage level, we don't believe that it will take our business away. In these cases, the debt is significantly lower than in larger funds. It is significantly more balanced. The rates are significantly lower than in larger funds.

This is a difficult question, but let's go back to the products you have listed. How or how big do you take the security margin? Everyone who has done a DCF knows that four to five years is difficult. Small swings make big differences. There have been certain deviations. Of course, the Russian government didn't know what was going on. However, they have had to do it again.

The first thing, if we take this... You still have to have a clear logic of how these are done, and you always do them in the same way. We have now tried, just because one article came up, which was then written down, which was clear that it was long to write down, we have wanted to go through them even more carefully, what we believe, how they go. They have been made according to as good an assessment as we can. On the other hand, It's not as important anymore when you get to the catch-up. It's more about the amount of times it affects you. If you get over the threshold, it's the amount of times it affects how much money we get. The only thing that's different is that the money comes later. As long as you get over the threshold, Keroin is the same. We get the same amount of money. The same as the investor. The investor and the ECU get the same amount of money, but at different times. We don't see that... The only thing that's digital is whether you get to the top. Then what is the Keroin? But the Keroin, if you look at the Kertoimia, the predicted yield here, is 200 per year. It doesn't make much difference. It went up a bit. But the fact that the yield would drop significantly would mean that the investments would go worse. Often, the point here is that the IRD drops when the exit rate doesn't go up, but the yield moves less. It can move 0.1% in some direction, but the movements are smaller. That's why the amount of euros doesn't affect the impact.

It would be good to remember that this assessment is based on the fact that we ask our target fund managers for their performance estimates. It is not our own team assessment, but we ask the funds to which we have invested and what are the estimates of the final production and the last exit period. Funds that are in the course of development are based on the target fund managers' assessment. Sitten tavallaan tuolla nuo uudemmat rahastot, esimerkiksi 24 vuoden, niissä tulee sieltä meidän arviointimallista omasta, että mitä on historiallisesti nämä vastaavat tuottanut, ja niitähän me ei jaksuteta.

Esimerkiksi katsotaan noita tuoreimpia rahastoja tuossa.

We were thinking about the big picture yesterday. The construction industry has been a bit more difficult for the past few years. It looks good, but it's still a big picture. The construction industry is weaker than it used to be. You have a good look, but at the same time, the resistance has increased. The growth of all the government agencies has become more difficult in 2020. Did you make a profit? Traditional is traditional without any obstacles. This is a very productive issue in the big companies' growth, at least as you can see in your own papers and also in Antti's papers. How do you think about it? Do you agree with Feinstein that it is the case, or would you see it as something that should be considered quickly and in some other way? You yourself mentioned the importance of the management of banks earlier. Yes. Well, maybe it goes like this. The long story is that in 2011, the new economy began to live. It has been like that for 14 years now. Ten years was the strong growth, when the real estate came along, until 2022. Now there has been a downward trend there. Now the difference. and gave instructions to the children during the maternity care. The idea is to think about what it is that we should invest in. When there are small changes, it's a good time to think about it. Is it a new thing? Is it a new position? and what needs to be done in a different way, whether it's products or customers, or the way of working, or whatever. That's what's on the carpet during the spring, and if we come up with a piece of smart stone, we'll tell it. It doesn't have to be a piece of smart stone, but it's a balanced view of what we believe we need to do to be relevant to our customers, ylipäänsä asiakaskunnan, jotka ei oo vielä meidän asiat. Mitä meidän pitää tehdä, jotta me ollaan heille kiinnostavia ja pystytään tuomaan kiinnostavia tuotteita ja tuottoja. Se on nyt mietintämysyssä ja katsotaan, mitä siinä tulee. Mutta ehdottomasti kyllä jokainen firma ja kaikki firmat, niin jonkunlaista katkua pitää saada. Muuten se ei oo henkilökunnalle eikä muillekaan hyvä. Kyllähän tää on kuitenkin semmosen bisnes, että have their own benefits for both investors and themselves.

So, I don't have any assessment of when we will be able to pay for the loans in Jumi.

All we really have is that we just stated that last year, when there were loans in June, we paid in part for YK in October. We try to do it as quickly as possible. I'm sure everyone tries to do it. It's an irrelevant comment, but the investor still has to think about what the price is. We also understand that those who want to make money want to make money. It doesn't matter if it's 2%, but if it's 20%, it probably matters. Markkina-aktiviteet. Toinen juttu, mikä siinä on totta kai vähän haastavaa, on se, että jos sulla on sata prosenttia yksikköä lunastuksia, olet päässyt 90 prosenttiin, niin sä et maksa sitä 90, mitä odottaa, että pääset siihen sataan. Se on tavallaan vähän... Kaksi minuuttia aikaa vielä. Kyllä, me voidaan olla vähän yliajana. Vai tämä loppuu? But I don't want to give it away. It depends so much on the market. Is there any question from the line, or is it over? Why is it over? I'm just looking at the estimates.

It can't be stopped. I got it on the mic. Minna, you're welcome. There's a lot of museums.

Yes, hello. Quickly about the opening of the real estate fund. When will we start paying for the rents? Do I understand correctly that the housing market already looks good, but just these social real estate and office real estate, that market view for you, what it is, will it last for them for a long time, longer? Not this year.

Yes, I would probably say Asuntomarkkinoilla tilanne on hyvä. Tarkoitin sillä sitä, että asuntomarkkina meidän näkemyksessämme, joka on sijoittajan kannalta, on nyt hyvä hetki sijoittaa, kun se markkina on sen verran alavireinen vielä ja uusia aloituksia on todella vähäisiä ja se markkina ei ole lähtenyt käyntiin. Silloin perinteisesti historiallisesti on paras hetki sijoittaa, kun jos yksikkökustannukset on keskimääräistä tai historiallisesti pikkusen matalemmat, However, the view is that the demand for 3-10 years is growing. That's why we're saying that investing in the market... could be particularly attractive compared to, say, four years. What about the market of the social economy? We're saying that the market requires quite a lot of... also for the actors to release capital, to come from the public sector, there is also a desire to make a transaction where it can be released. And when the length of these contractual agreements in the middle is long, it is tempting for the investor, because it brings a stable cash flow, and when the interest rates have come down, the market often opens up from this type of investments and grows the most. That's why we chose the idea of a market. In terms of open real estate funds, it's a bit different, because it's so much dependent on the volume of the market transaction, and it starts to predict how the volume will start to grow. As we said, we predict that this year's volumes will grow from last year, but how much, it's possible to separate it, Se on niin monen asian summa, mitä meillä taloudessa menee, ja miten rautasanat on auki, ja minne koronan loppu viimeinen sitten menee. Jos tämä vastaa yhtään sun kysymykseen.

No, kiitoksia.

Vai onko Terulla jotain lisättävää?

Ei ole mitään lisättävää. Oliko vielä jotain?

Saa vielä kysyä sitten tämän jälkeenkin, jos jotain on tai soittaa. Kiitoksia oikein paljon, että tulitte. What then?