Sto SE & Co. KGaA

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the STRER Q3 Figures 2025 conference call. I am Sandra, the Chorus Call Operator. I would like to remind you that all participants have been listened only mode and the conference has been recorded. The presentation will be followed by a Q&A session. You can register for questions at any time by pressing star and 1 on your telephone. For operator assistance, please press star and 0. The conference must not be recorded for publication or broadcast. At this time, it's my pleasure to hand over to Christian Schmalzel. Please go ahead, sir.

Dear ladies and gentlemen, dear investors and analysts, welcome to our Q3 call. Let's jump straight into the presentation and give you a brief overview of the developments in the first nine months of fiscal year 2025 and introduce you to some of our news and topics from the last three months. Henning will then comment on the developments and effects of our Q3 figures in more detail. This will be followed by remarks on what we expect for the fourth quarter and the year 2025. As always, we are looking forward to your questions after our presentation. With that, let us start the call with a short overview of our nine-month 2025 developments. Before we look at the main KPIs, a brief introductory remark. After a very solid first quarter with revenue growth of around 5% at group level, Second quarter of 2025 with revenue declining slightly against a very strong prior year figures due to the UEFA European Championships 2024 in Germany. Our third quarter development is a continuation of the previous quarter's development in an environment characterized by political and economic uncertainty. The developments in the first nine months of the year should be viewed and interpreted against this environment. Overall, revenues in the period January to September rose by around 1% to 1.47 billion euro. Organic growth for the period was minus 0.4%. Adjusted EBITDA came in at around 414 million euro compared to 420 million euro in the same period, 2024. Compared with the previous year's figure, EBIT adjusted declined by around 9% due to an increase in DNA compared with the prior year period. Net income adjusted declined on a comparable scale by 10% to €86 million. Nine months 2024 was €96 million. Pre-cash flow adjusted for the reporting period was €19.1 million. nine months 2024 78.3 million euro mainly due to higher working capital requirements especially in out of home as well as in dialogue and statista henning will come back on this detail in his comments in line with our communicative capex strategy which includes a more focused expansion of our digital out of home network and to further optimize the utilization of our digital out of outdoor advertising media CapEx remained on a comparably low level, slightly higher compared to the nine months period in 2024. In total, CapEx was 67 million euro compared to 62 million euro, including the investments in our new flagship screen, the whale, with 342 square meter, the largest screen in Germany in Hamburg main station. Let's have a look at the market dynamics for the first nine months. Major digital platforms continue to perform strongly. Meta has reported 22% growth, while Alphabet, including YouTube, is up 14%, with YouTube alone contributing 13%. These figures underscore the sustained strengths of digital advertising on a global scale. Turning to the German market, the picture is more nuanced. As always, please keep in mind that the Nielsen numbers in the middle of this chart show gross rate card developments and the net revenue, including all discounts, is on average six to seven points lower. The overall advertising market in Germany has remained flat, showing 0% growth again. Traditional media continue to face headwinds. TV advertising is down 4%. while print and radio have seen modest gains on a gross level of 2% and 1%, respectively. Desktop and mobile advertising grew on a gross level by 2%, indicating a slow but steady digital shift. However, out-of-home advertising, or out-of-home, stands out with a 10% increase, demonstrating its resilience and relevance in the two-day media mix. Now let's look at Stoer's performance. Our digital out-of-home segment has grown by 10%, in line with the broader out-of-home market. More importantly, our programmatic digital out-of-home offering has outpaced the market, delivering 13% growth. This reflects the increasing demand for data-driven automated ad solutions and validates our strategic investments in this area. When we combine digital out of home and traditional out of home, Stoer's core business has achieved a solid five percent growth, outperforming many local peers and traditional channels. As Foh mentioned, it is important to note that the figures for the German market are based on gross numbers, which tend to be, as said, inflated by approximately six to seven percentage points compared to net revenues. Our reporting is based on net numbers, ensuring transparency and comparability. If we isolate the same exercise for Q3, the following picture emerges. The major US players were able to slightly accelerate their growth in the third quarter. However, developments in the German advertising market reflect weaker consumer sentiment and the weak macroeconomic environment. The overall advertising market remains at its low level of minus 2% compared to the same period in Q3. Print category declined slightly compared to the previous quarter, and TV marked the low point of this year so far with minus 6% on a gross level. The out-of-home category reports zero growth. However, if we take into account the discounts, it can continue to expand both the category's market share and its share against the largest advertising category, TV, a trend you've seen in the last quarters. Let me briefly show you two examples which exemplary describe the mechanism as well as the efficiency of out-of-home. In the surrounding of cold season, Danone implemented an eye-catching digital out-of-home campaign for Actimel at train stations, specifically during rush hours when large numbers of people gather and the risk of infection is particularly high. The aim was to highlight the relevance of Actimel as a support for the immune system at exactly the right moment and in the right place. The results speak for themselves. Purchase intent for Actimel increased significantly to 38%. Equally impressive is the recommendation rate with an index of 238. Aided advertising recall reached 55% during the survey period, and Actimel clearly moved to the top of mind of the target group. The market research shows that the combination of relevant content, precise time targeting and placement at the point of infection ensures a significant uplift along the entire marketing funnel, from advertising recall to purchase intent. San Pellegrino Lemonade is the second out-of-home campaign we want to highlight. San Pellegrino focused on out-of-home advertising to increase the visibility and awareness of its lemonade products. The communication focused on the natural ingredients of the original lemonade and the full flavor of the zero variety. With its first ever relevant out-of-home campaign in Germany, San Pellegrino has significantly strengthened brand perception and awareness in the lemonade segment. The strong creative implementation, clear communication and high visibility in public spaces formed an excellent basis for further growth and the sustainable establishment of the brand in the German lemonade market. These two examples clearly show that outdoor advertising enhanced with special targeting features not only increases reach, but also reinforces the advertising message, significantly increasing purchase intent and recommendation rates. These features not only convince already established customers and out-of-home fans, but also rapidly win over new customers. As a result, we now have two new important customers in our top 10 digital out-of-home ranking, Lint and Unilever. Continuous development of our digital out-of-home products is part of our DNA, but also an important driver of success. With the impact booster, we've taken another step forward in our development. The data is clear. Digital out-of-home advertising is a true game changer and a powerful impact booster within the media mix. When we combine TV with digital out-of-home, the effectiveness of the campaigns increases significantly. For example, with just two TV contacts, adding one digital out-of-home contact raises advertising recall from 69% to 76%. Similarly, with four TV contacts, supplementing with two digital out-of-home contacts lifts recall from 80% to an impressive 90%. The impact indices IX110 and IX113 underscore this uplift, demonstrating that the synergy between TV and digital out-of-home delivers higher return on media investment than TV standalone. In essence, TV alone cannot achieve the same level of impact as the combination of TV and digital out-of-home. For analysts and investors, this means that integrating digital out of home into the media strategy is not just an option, but a necessity for maximizing campaign effectiveness and driving measurable results. With Social Pulse, we have another example for innovation. It turns public video into an open stage for social impulses, curated by brands and then live by authentic community dialogue. Through a seamless one-stop-shop process, Social Pulse enables brands to translate the dynamic energy of social media into the physical world. Community-oriented brand messages can now reach target groups even outside the traditional social media bubble. The impact is clear. Social Pulse bridges the gap between digital engagement and real-world presence. It empowers brands to amplify their relevance foster genuine community interaction and extend their reach far beyond online platforms. Public video city urban represents significantly forward in urban advertising with over 1190 full motion video screens installed across 21 major cities in Germany. We offer brands a unique and highly visible stage for their messages right in the heart of urban life. These eye-catching screens are strategically placed near points of interest, ensuring that advertising messages are not only seen, but also contextually relevant. The use of striking passepartouts maximizes visibility, making each campaign stand out in the bustling city environment. Public Video City Urban is an excellent example for merging advertising and real-world context, delivering maximum impact and engagement. So far on my remarks, and with that, over to Henning.

Thank you, Christian, and a very good morning, everybody. Let us start the final section, as usual, with a review of the Q3-25 P&L. In total and against a continuously challenging market context with impaired visibility, the performance of the group in Q3 was characterized by sequential moderation compared to development of the first six months. Compared to Q2, however, organic growth was not the accelerating further. Revenue for the quarter was down by minus 1%. This includes 120 basis points to port from non-organic effects, such as the acquisition of RBL media. Excluding this effect, organic growth came in at minus 2.1%, or 0.2 percentage points better than in the second quarter. EPTA adjusted amounted to 147 million euro, compared to 156 million euro in Q3 24. The exceptional items for the quarter were minus 3.1 million euro, €0.5 million lower as in Q3-24. The exceptional items essentially comprise three components. €1.6 million for restructuring measures, especially at the dialogue business, €1.2 million for ERP transformation, and €0.2 million transactional exchange rate effects, mainly as the US dollar developed against us as a statistic in Q3-25. Accordingly, reported EBITDA was €144 million after €153 million last year. Depreciation and amortization increased from 81 to 84 million euro or by 4%, broadly in line with the development in the preceding quarters. With that, reported EBIT for the quarter came in at 60 million euro, some 12 million euro lower compared with Q3-24. The financial results slightly improved against the same period, 24, to now 17.6 million euro. For the first nine months, the financial result has improved by around 6 million euro, excluding some non-cash effects, mainly from U.S. dollar-dominated internal financing and statistics. The underlying improvement is a little less. Nevertheless, lower rates are still, to some extent, compensated for by around 100 million higher average net debt year over year. Earnings before tax decreased to 43 million euro after 54 million euro in Q3 of the prior year. The tax rate was basically unchanged with about 30% in the reporting period and with that the tax result follows the development of EBT. All in all reported net income for the quarter came in at 30 million euro after 38 million euro in Q3 24. Adjustments were slightly up by €0.8 million as the increased PPA adjustments due to RBL acquisition exceeded the lower EBITDA adjustments. Accordingly, net income adjusted was €34 million after €41 million in the prior year. Let us now switch over to the cash flow. Our cash flow in the third quarter this year compares against a strong development in the same period in prior year. Last year, almost every line item presented considerable improvements on the back of strong growth supported by the effects of major sports events. Looking at the working capital, the first thing we should remember is that out-of-home media is structurally a negative working capital business. Strong sales growth throughout the first nine months last year also implied good working capital improvements. This year now, with the business basically turning in flat sales in Q2 and Q3, this effect is unwinding. More than two-thirds of the delta of €35 million comparing the working capital outflow of the first nine months year over year is attributable to the out-of-home media segment. The remainder stems primarily from the expansion of our dialogue business and from Statista, where deteriorating inbound subscription sales year over year led to lower deferred income. Based on our outlook for Q4, we think that regarding working capital, the worst is behind us, and we shall see some stabilization going forward. EBITDA and working capital developments explain the development of Q3 operating cash flow for the most part. On top in Q3, we saw 6 million euro higher investments year over year, resulting from the out-of-home segment. For Q4, we are currently expecting an increase of more or less the same amount. Let me come to the net debt development. In the sequential view, from the end of the second quarter to the end of the third quarter 25, net debt was down by roughly 11 million euro. including the adjusted free cash flow for the third quarter of plus €21 million and cash out for minority dividends of minus €8 million. The remainder of around minus €2 million mainly relates to the net effect of higher debt for accrued interest and lower debt for financial liabilities recognized from profit transfer agreements at companies with minority interest. Net debt year over year was up by €150 million to €945 million, including the accumulated free cash flow over the last 12 months of €99 million, cash out for the acquisition of RBL Media amounting to €106 million, cash out for dividend payments of minus 128 million euro, and cash out of minus 13 million for minority dividends. The remaining difference of minus 2 million euro is among others due to an increase of overpayments from customers, plus 2 million euro, and a decrease of accrued interest expenses, minus 3 million euro. With that, our leverage ratio in the third quarter amounted to 2.53 times after 2.1 times at the end of prior year's Q3. Sequentially, from Q2 to Q3, the leverage ratio was broadly stable. Let us now take a look at the performance of the individual operating segments in the past quarter, starting with our core segment, out-of-home media. Out-of-home media, against a continuously challenging market context, turned in broadly stable sales. Compared to the second quarter, where growth was around 1%, not a big change, and in line with our outlook for the third quarter. At the same time, though, prior year comps were much easier for Q3, but also the market deteriorated further, in particular if we exclude online and considering industry-wide higher discounts. So all in all, in Q3, we continued to gain share from legacy media outlets and a declining ad market. With that, sales for the quarter came in at €236 million, including a contribution of €5 million from RBL. Our classic business grew slightly from 131 to 132 million euro, while digital out-of-home sales declined slightly by 0.6 million euro. Digital out-of-home continues to account for more than 40% of outdoor advertising sales if we exclude the services. For the cumulative period, digital out-of-home grew significantly by more than 10%, while classic outdoor advertising showed solid growth of 1.4% in the first nine months. EBITDA adjusted for the quarter was down by 1 million euro and includes tight cost control established via a comprehensive cost and hiring freeze in place since late July. Q3 revenue for digital and dialogue media amounted to 206 million euro after 212 million euro in the prior year period. Digital media came in at 103 million euro compared to 112 million euro in Q3 24. Within digital media, sales from our owned assets such as programmatic public video and owned internet content, including T-Online, were almost stable. Revenues from selling ads on third-party assets, however, declined. Dialogue media showed a sales increase of 3.4% from 100 million to 103 million. However, the two dialogue activities, call center and direct marketing, showed still different sales dynamics in the quarter. Our call center activities grew by as much as 12%, and thus more than overcompensated for the sales decline in the door-to-door business, where Q3 revenue was still down, all by showing some stabilization compared to a very challenging first half. In total, the segment EBITDA adjusted for the third quarter came in at 32 million euros. Let me take a moment to explain a few topics about our last acquisition in the call center space. Effective from the beginning of October, we will consolidate the activities of Amevida. Amevida is an established provider in the field of dialogue marketing with a strong focus on sales and sales-related services. We acquired the business in the course of insolvency proceedings for an eligible purchase price. As part of the integration, the acquired business will in future be operated largely from our existing overhead infrastructure. On top of that, we optimize the existing portfolio of locations and renegotiate existing lease contracts. so that altogether we will be able to operate Amavida profitably from day one without incurring any relevant one-off costs. For the full year 26, we shall have more than 1,300 additional FTEs, generating more than €60 million in revenue with an expected mid-single-digit €1 million contribution to EBITDA. In terms of customer structure with that acquisition, we will strengthen our position helping mostly already existing clients in their sales process. As opposed to a few service-related business, this will offer a higher margin potential going forward. Finally, some comments on our data as a service and e-commerce segment with Statista and Assam. Q3 revenue was stable for the segment. Thereby, a decline in Statista was compensated by moderate growth at Assam. Statista's revenue development in the third quarter was slightly up on a currency-adjusted basis. While we are making encouraging progress on the API integration with clients, we are still facing considerable pressure on the inbound platform sales. This is now amplified by impaired visibility on Google following the reduction of Statista content available without paywall restriction and changed user search behavior in the context of AI search. The focus remains on driving demand through efficient and intelligent integration via our API interface. We have already developed a seamless connection between a large number of customer-owned databases and Statista via MCP servers. Bluechip Statista clients move to our new solution Connect, such as leading payment and e-commerce players. Statista will further develop its existing customer base and new clients forward towards these new solutions. Feedback so far is positive, and we are working on a comprehensive pipeline of upcoming integrations. At the same time, we are also intensely working on improving our internal efficiency in producing our stats content. Based on the adoption of comprehensive AI tooling, we will adjust our staff by around 80 employees. For this measure, we will recognize around 3 million euro restructuring costs qualifying as adjustments in Q4. From this measure alone, we shall see PEX improving recurrently by around 4 million euros. Let us now have a look at how Azam performed in Q3. Total revenues for the quarter came in at €46 million or €1 million higher when compared with the same period in 2024. This development was mainly driven by good growth in our business with drugstore retailers, more than offsetting declining online and TV sales. Looking at the cumulative period from January to September, the development altogether still reflects weak consumer sentiment and we do not expect this to change in Q4. Q3 earnings for the segment came in at 10 million euro. And with that, let me hand you over back to Christian for the outlook and some closing remarks.

Before ending the presentation, let me just have some comments on the outlook for Q4 and full year 2025 and the current trading momentum. So what do we expect for Q4 and the remainder of the year? Based on current order book, we expect Q3 growth in out-of-home media in a low to mid single-digit area. So what we see at the moment is slight acceleration again versus Q3. Digital and dialogue media with revenue development ahead of Q3 growth rate. DOS and e-commerce revenue growth rate broadly in line with the first nine months. The guidance for 2025 therefore updated on September 18, 2025 remains unchanged and mid long term we continue to expect double digit top line growth on average in our core out of home business. With that, let me now close the presentation with a short look into our financial calendar for 2026, which are the presentation of our preliminary figures for the 2025 financial year on March 5, 2026. publication of the 2025 annual report and other financial statements on March 26, followed by the Q1 report, which we will publish on May 12. We will present the development for the second quarter and the first half of the year, 2026, on August 13. Last but not least, we've scheduled the figures for the third quarter for November 12. As always, updates, reports, and roadshow presentations can be found on our IR website. Thank you, everyone, and we are now happy to take your questions.

We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on the telephone. You will hear a tone to confirm that you have entered the queue. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2. Participants are requested to disable the loudspeaker mode while asking a question. Anyone who has a question may press star and one at this time. Our first question comes from Annick Maas from Bernstein. Please go ahead.

Good morning. So my first question is, I think in the press release you're saying that your conversations with clients suggest that 2026 will see an acceleration of out-of-home growth. So my question is, you know, how much of your order book is concerned with these conversations? How far are they going out? you can give us a bit more details around that comment. My second question is around Statista. A couple of questions there. First of all, can you tell us how much of your Statista traffic is direct? And then secondly, I think you've been testing various different new monetization avenues for Statista. If you could give us a little bit of an update there. And then my third one is on the working capital change, you've said that The worst is behind us. What does that mean? If you can give us a bit further clarification, what are you expecting for working capital change in the fourth quarter? Thank you.

I think the first question was about 26, right? I didn't hear it 100%.

Absolutely, it was about 26. The comments that you made in the press release give us a bit more detail on that.

So the same expression like for the free cash flow is for order intake versus behind us. We saw a really significant crisis this year, which you can only compare from the impact of the world financial crisis or the Corona pandemic. So this trade war really created a lot of uncertainty. I mean, this was discussed a million times, but we could see that our customers actually reacted to that. And we see now that we had a lot of conversations now in the last weeks and our customers, I mean, the agencies, they all already had the conversation with the customers for next year. And we see clearly that the momentum, trade momentum is coming, I would say, coming back to normal. So we would expect in the overall market to see a slight growth next year. And I mean, if you look back to 24 and 23, Even if the market is flat, it should be enough for us to grow our core business like we said here in the guidance by double digit. So that is actually how we expect the development right now. So for now, the trade war crisis is over. Uncertainty is reducing. And overall, the agencies are looking at much more confidence in the next year.

I think on your second question, Statista, well, direct traffic in general is probably less than 25%. So most of the traffic is from the ultimate traffic on Statista.com and sub-sites in the different countries is coming via organic search. But the business model, ultimately, is not driven by traffic. So what we sell is access to the database or access now more and more via Statista connect to the data volume via direct APIs. So the traffic of Statista has no direct link back to revenue development because it's not like a classic publisher where traffic defines ultimately the eyeballs and the eyeballs ultimately define the monetization potential. Nevertheless, and I think that's something we've highlighted last quarter, that organic search traffic via Google is going down and a lot of potential new users have their first contact with the website. So the kind of inbound potential on the safe side for the product and for the ultimate monetization case has clearly gone down. Also, we have to say, I think, historically, we've been converting less than 0.5% of the overall traffic and new users into paying customers. So I think it's one feature of the business model, but not the crucial one. The key point is the database and what we have there. proprietary, not proprietary, but unsubstitutable. So in the long run, corporates will want the access to the database, no matter if it's happening directly or via LLMs.

On your last question, Anik, on working capital life, I mean, first of all, let's remind us that Q4 is just for seasonality reasons our strongest cash flow quarter always. In terms of corporate capital, I think there's a few positives that should support working capital traction in Q4 compared to what we've seen the first nine months. And this is, of course, I think our more constructive outlook on out-of-home sales right now. At the same time, there will be still a few detractors. One of them will be Statista, where I think we should continuously expect pressure on inbound sales. uh and slower sales of subscriptions that will continuously hurt the deferred income position and i talked about amelida now uh joining the group which will also lead to i'd say some uh built up of working capital requirement in the fourth quarter net net i think i would say our internal target is to come as close as possible to the prior year free cash flow in the in the fourth quarter ultimately obviously will depend how the business maps out

But this is the internal target to get as close as possible to try your Q4 cash flow.

Okay. Thank you very much. The next question comes from Craig Abbott from Kepler Fibro. Please go ahead.

Yes. Good morning. Thank you, everyone. Well, actually, my first question was also going to be on more visibility on cash flow and Q4, but you just answered that, so thank you. Two questions. One on out-of-home media. You talk about it accelerating 26%. Could you maybe just talk us around a little bit to what extent you're taking the strong Q1 comp into account? Because obviously it will still be quite tough. And sticking with out-of-home media, you saw flattish digital sales actually in Q3. I assume this is primarily temporary due to the very weak conditions in Q3 overall. But if you could just give us some reassurance here on what you're seeing in terms of pickup in the growth rate in digital auto home. And the third question is moving over to the digital dialogue division. You talked clearly about the weakness in third party ad trading in Q3. Do you think this is primarily just cyclical weakness or are you concerned that it may be more structural? Thank you.

Look, the digital auto form development in Q3 reflects actually the crisis because our customers were really tactical on the spending side. So it ended up in a curious situation that analog auto form was growing stronger than digital auto form. I think this is maybe the last time you're going to see that in the next five years because we have a very strong But it's more short-term, you can book it in real-time and in analog you need a couple of weeks lead time. And this reflects perfectly this extraordinary situation that we had this year. And it was for us and for everybody a weird crisis. Because normally a crisis starts with a big bang, everybody knows the crisis. And this crisis started step by step by step with the famous liberation day of Donald Trump. when nobody knew what was going to happen because it was the first time experience, the trade war between the US and the European Union. Nobody ever had experience of that. This is exactly, you put the finger on the right point, it's reflecting this crisis situation. So, on full year, I mean, Kirsten already reported the numbers, so the full year already looks different and we see now strong demand on digital on Q4 for Christmas, etc. And this is, from our point of view, clearly a one-off, what I already said, reflected the special situation we had in this year. So, I mean, what I already said, for 26, we have no doubt that our growth profile comes back to normal because this trade war is finished. And therefore, confidence is back in the media market. I mean, in the overall market, we've already said we're not going to see explosion next year. But if the market is flat or slightly growing, it's enough for us to grow a double digit because there's a big positive momentum for out of home, also driven by the fact that linear TV reach is going constantly down and people are looking for alternative solutions in the upper funnel. So print is obviously going down quite fast. Linear TV now is under pressure already for the third consecutive year in a row. And our advertisers are reconsidering their strategy throughout the funnel. I mean, performance is strong, obviously. So the American platform, they have a strong business. But in the upper funnel, We are getting stronger and stronger, driven especially by digital auto form. And this is a development, but we are expecting not only for next year, but also for the next, whatever, five to six, seven, eight, nine, ten years. It's a long-term development. It's underlying structural growth.

I mean, maybe building on what Udo just said, Craig, I think also if you think about Q1 and Q2 next year, obviously, I think it's fair to say that the difference of the base is quite significant, right? So we had like 15% growth in Q1 and then basically moved to flat or 1% in the second quarter. So I think it's fair to say that looking at the first half, development will be somewhat back-end loaded, right?

And on your question on third-party sales and online media in general, on the one hand, yes, you're right that when we look at our total digital business within digital and dialogue. We clearly see that our own portal, specialty online, is performing, I would say, well in that environment. It's quite robust. I would say the parts that are more challenging is the inventory that we have from third-party publishers. Again, that's, I think, about 25% to 30% of the profit within that overall business. I think it's more driven there by higher volatility in the traffic of our third-party publishers. But before that, and I think that's the most important point, and just reflecting what Udo said, I think the macro environment at the moment is absolutely unique and outstanding. The fact that classic out-of-home has a better growth rate than digital out-of-home says something in itself. That's why I would say what you see at the moment in the digital media is like 80% cyclical and 20% is more like structurally softer traffic development on the third party publisher side. That's also something Google is updating the algorithm at the moment relatively often. So it's not an AI impact. It's just normal volatility in traffic development of some of the verticals that we've integrated from third party publishers.

And by the way, Greg, I mean, if you look on 2025, I think it's not what we wanted originally before Trump started this trade war. But I mean, if you look at the cryo thing, the performance is quite solid. I mean, the overall market, nobody knows exactly because there's no data, but we guess that is in fact should be down around 10% in the overall year. And that's what we see also in the last years. So we are outperforming the market by 10 to 15 percentage points and we are outperforming TV by 12 to 15 percentage points. And this is for us the most important KPI to understand that this structural growth that we have is very intact, even in the crisis.

Okay. Thank you all.

The next question comes from Markus Diebel from J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead.

Hi, everyone. Thanks. I think most of my questions have been asked. But nevertheless, Henning, on the cash flow again, I mean, you made it very clear where the working capital effects come from and that it gets better very soon. This investment line before M&A, the 27.7 million, can you just explain a bit more what that actually is? The other components, I think I understand of the free cash flow. And then again, I think more on the broader advertising environment and the debate, what happened to digital? I mean, do you see... at least sort of like higher pickup also at the smaller clients. You obviously get very excited about the smaller screens that you basically place in shop windows. Is that really the sort of like push of digital also happening at the SMEs? I still struggle a little bit to see the development of digital versus analogue in Q3. I obviously heard your comments, but to me it's not really clear why we should assume it should get much better in 26.

Because we have the conversations right now. So we talk to the clients and the agencies for the clients. They are now planning 26. In all the big corporates, the budget for next year is now clear, or it's clear in the next three or four days. So we are in talks to all our customers, all our big customers, all the agencies, and we are negotiating now the commitments for 26. So with every agency, we have a number on the table, and that's why we are convinced it's, it's going to change because it's different. So that's the only thing we can say. There is no hope. That is... Optimism, basically. No, no optimism. That's what we're discussing. If somebody says, look, next year we spend 20 million more, it's not optimism. I mean, we are fixing all the deals. So every media company knows, let's say, in the latest four or six weeks from now, uh has a very very clear indication what is happening next year i mean media budgets are not allocated from big corporates overnight there's a yearly budgeting process and otherwise also the agencies you know in the next four or five weeks let's say let's until mid of end of january that is uh that's already super late the agencies close all the commitments for 26 So, this is a process we are right now in, but the key point is uncertainty is over. The uncertainty is over and that's what I tried to express and Christian as well. I mean, look, digitally you can book it overnight and in the uncertainty situation, like we had a unique uncertainty in Q2 and Q3, people have budgets, but they're waiting what's happening under the spend. And then they decide on Wednesday if they spend it next week. And in this circumstance, the people didn't spend. I just had a meeting last week with one of the two biggest agencies in Germany and said we lost 100 million euros in the summer, unexpected, because people didn't spend.

But that's more for the sort of like national clients. My question was more in regards to the sort of like the SMEs and their willingness to adopt digital even more.

Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. I think just the share of SMEs in total within our out-of-home portfolios, if you really look at the small clients, I don't know, it's 10-15% roughly. And because they focus on the location nearby their stores, they go for the next best location. So that does not need to be necessarily a digital one. So it doesn't make sense for them to, I don't know, focus on digital if the screen is just not close enough to their store. That's why the adoption to digital is less driven by their willingness to do so and more based on the rollout. Do we have more and more inventory close to them? And that's, I think, the point that Udo made. We are moving the smaller formats into the inner cities which just bring smaller screens, less capex, closer to SMEs so that they also have the opportunity because before that there was no digital screen because it was not possible to bring those large formats close to the stores.

Look, there's something between roadside and retail at the end. So, as you all know that retail is very much a fashion. That's also our move into retail that we go on the shop windows or smaller screens because first we become an area where we have nothing to offer right now. And second, we create a new offer. For example, pharmacy shop windows are very attractive to pharmaceutical companies. And this is something where we And the development is quite promising, where we expect to create a new market segment by targeting locations, which we couldn't target up to now, which we couldn't offer to our customers up to now.

Markus, on your question on the cash flow from investments, what is in that? It's basically all cash investments before M&A. However, there's not much. There's almost no M&A that we need to talk about. The only thing which it doesn't include would be addition to fixed assets from additional leasing contracts. So that, I think, is a very pure cash flow number. The increase in the quarter stems from the out-of-home business, as I said in the speech. We talked about things like the whale, you know, the huge billboard in Hamburg. One, we talked about, let's say, the public city windows. So there's a bit more, let's say, focused investment now. After, you know, the first two quarters, we were more moving, like, sideways. And also, in Q3, I think we had, I think, a low single-digit million euro in out-of-home for the renewal of the software license that is supporting the digital out-of-home technology. So that is another point. Looking at the breakdown, you can assume that more or less half of the investment cash-out is for out-of-home, and the remainder would be like... The remainder would be one-third digital and dialogue and two-thirds on data as a service and e-commerce. And within data as a service, I think you guys all know that we do also capitalize our set content and depreciate it.

So also those costs are actually then capitalized on the balance sheet and written down. I hope that answers your question.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, thank you.

By the way, the Wael is for us a really landmark project. We're working 10 years on that. And we want to expect more turnover from the Wael than most of our city contracts. So it's a bigger screen in Europe from this type of screens. And Hamburg is with 500,000 people per day, the most frequented area, place, whatever in Germany by far. So the Frankfurt airport has 170,000. and Frankfurt airport and Hamburg railway station is 500,000. So we're going to launch it now in December 1st. And there is only one screen, but it's a big project for us and gives also more visibility to out of home in Germany.

Yeah. Okay. I didn't know what it is. Okay.

As a reminder, if you wish to register for a question, please press star followed by one. The next question comes from Julien Roche from Barclays. Please go ahead.

Yes, good morning, everybody. My first question is on Statista to try to understand the change in the business model. So maybe can you tell us how many paying subscribers do you have at Statista? How many are large and could potentially move to having your data incorporated in the LLM? How many have already moved and are paying you? And if they are paying, what is the revenue versus the old model? That's number one. Then number two on ASAM, I know current trading is not great, but any update on disposal? And then on Amivida, Henning, did you say 15 or 50 in terms of revenue in 2026? And for Udo, why do you like the dialogue business so much? Because I would think that is one of the reasons why your multiple is so low is the diversified nature of your company. Thank you.

yeah yeah thank you i don't like the dialogue business so much i mean the the we made the deal we made the deal to make an exit more likely because this is um i mean originally we started the dialogue business because we wanted to we wanted to sell and this is a while ago and of course the data protection act you're not able to sell on the phone really except you have a double opt-in But now we have 50-50 sales and service, and I think this makes it much more likely that we are going to find an exit sooner or later. I mean, we clearly focus on our core business, but we are very, let's say, opportunistic in terms of if there's a window of opportunity, then we're clearly going to exit the non-core business, what you always said. There's unchanged, but we cannot influence circumstances that are out of our control. We bought here for €250,000, €60 million turnover with €5 million profit and moved the service to sales from, let's say, €70,000 to €30,000 to €50,000 to €50,000, so it's a much more attractive profile now of the company. We have very optimistic that delivers a good cash flow next year, but what I already said, this is non-core and there is no strategic area. We discussed it for a while, if we do the acquisition or not, because obviously it was a question how would that perceived at the capital market, but it was really value. accretive to this call center business and that's why we finally did it.

Well, building on that and coming back to the numbers, what I said is we expect for full fiscal 26 with that we will have more than 1,300 additional FTEs, mostly agents, right? Those shall generate more than 60 million, six zero in sales and we expect a mixed single digit million euro amount in terms of EBITDA contribution. For now, this current fiscal year, it's probably fair to assume that we expect, let's say, probably around about 15 million Euro sales from Amelida, so more or less five each and every month now. Also, you should bear in mind what I said about the working capital. We would expect a working capital requirement now, additionally a working capital requirement from Amelida in the mid-single-digit million Euro range for Q4. I hope that explains your question.

Back on your Statista question about client structure and the changing business model and Statista Connect. I'm just reading out from the sales reporting the opportunities that we've been working on over the last five or six months. and then the the one opportunities so from may to september opportunities in may 27 and june 24 in july 31 in august 39 and september 70 so you see ongoing interactions with clients that we actively see where and how we can integrate in their llms One opportunities from May to September 5, 5, 6, 8, 17. So we meanwhile have roughly 30 corporates globally on that new model and accelerating both opportunities as well as one client. And if you look at the profile of the customers at the moment, you have as the first movers large consultancies in the range of companies like McKinsey or Boston Consulting. You have larger agencies like companies as WPP or Omnicom. We have a lot of digital clients that do a lot of analytics. So also companies like Google and PayPal are on that list. Also other classic industry companies like Volkswagen or Telecom. So I think it's across the range. But the profile of a typical customer of Statista Connect with an own LLM that should have access to the database is clearly large global multinational corporates.

You know, it's all about execution now. I think the underlying thesis now is clear to everybody who used or collected experience with LLMs in the last months and quarters. I mean, if the database is bad, the answers are crap. And this is, I think, totally transferent now to everybody. So that's why we see clearly a different way of how we're going to distribute our data, what Christian just described. But there's no doubt that there's a big opportunity for Shatista and an important role. Because if you don't have access to reliable data, your LLM is not creating anything. So that's all about execution now. We have to connect to this company, GPTs, and we have to find the best possible billing systems and pricing strategy. And that's the process we are right now in.

And just following up, so you're saying, if I understood correctly, you already have 30 clients that have signed on Statista Connect, right? And they're all large global multinationals. So maybe if you could remind us how many total clients you have at Statista and then how many kind of large multinationals that could potentially take Statista Connect so we have an idea of the kind of opportunity And then lastly, if you sign 30 clients, can we get an idea of the subscription before and after? I mean, is it the same price? Is it more expensive? Is it cheaper? Thank you.

That's what I tried to describe before. We are in a transition period. And this transition period has for me two levels. One is the strategic level. is, let's say to make it very simple, is statistics needed in an LLM-driven future? And let's say 18 months ago, nobody could deliver a reliable answer. Now we can say 100% yes. And this is for statistical value creation, the key and most important factor. So the second is more, let's say, tactical operational level. What is the pricing system? I have to say we don't know yet because Look, we are connecting now and it takes always, I mean, it's a very complicated technical thing to connect Stratista to a company, GPT, which are right now developing. And now we collect the first, we have now agreed on pricing, let's say 50 cents per take, which I think is by far too expensive. So because we expect the traffic to explode. I give an example, a big, let's say, a consulting company, global consulting company, up to now we sold 1500 seats. But in the future, there are 20,000 consultants having access to Statista. So nobody knows now if the traffic is 10 times, 100 times, 5 times, 500 times, because the company GPT decides if they need access to Statista data, yes or no. So now we agreed on this, let's say, test environment for a certain budget on 50 cents per take. I think we're going to end up with a lower price per take because the access and the traffic will explode because we have 1,500 specialists up to now and now we have everybody who has access to Statista. And so that's why we agree, both sides agreed in this case on a certain budget, let's say whatever, 100,000 euros, and then we collect experience and then we're going to reprice it. So, as I said, it's all about execution right now. But the most important question was, is there a need for Statista? And we can say now there is 100% yes, plus LLMs will make Statista more valuable at the end because of the huge amount of data. It became more and more difficult to navigate through Statista data and you need to be really a specialist. No CEO could use Statista data. You had to ask somebody who ask somebody who is a really specialist and how to use it. The future and now what we're doing now means everybody has access without even realizing it because a part of the company knowledge management system. And we have now whatever big waiting line, but every one of our customer who's building a company knowledge management system, wants to do the same, sign up for Connect and connect Statista data into your LLM environment. But that's execution now. I mean, the key point was the strategic point. And this, I have to say, we are very confident, 100% convinced that the importance of Statista for our clients is not going to shrink at all. through the introduction of LLM and the company environment.

I think we already said everything.

If I look back, we made the mistake to talk about exit of AZA, but it's clearly non-core, we want to exit it. Our bank said don't start a process now because it is the wrong environment. And we're saying, yeah, but our shareholders want us to exit it. So we have the discussion every three months. There's always a trade-off between are we waiting because we believe we get 100 million more or do we exit now? because we believe the effect of exiting it on the stock price is bigger than the loss we have in the sales price. But I think we made crystal clear and I also want to report that today we focus on our core business and we are also working on possible restructuring of the organization, of the group to reflect that more clear to the outside. The core business is clearly what we are focusing. This is a financial investment event now for us. Like a venture for us. The moment we see a good compromise between a reasonable sales price and the impact of the of the share price, we're going to exit it. I mean, if you look at the performance, if you look on the overall market, I think the performance is very solid, but it's not growing this year because overall, not only the advertising market, we saw, I think, a big uncertainty also on the consumer side because in Germany, I mean, 40% of the jobs are based on exports. So the first trade forever, our biggest friend, I think was a shock for everybody here. And everybody is really happy that things are now coming to an end here and we can look and we can handle the achieved agreement if you like them or not. That's what we always said. I mean, the problem is not if you pay 50% tax or not. The problem is uh that if you don't know what's going to happen means people are not spending because they are waiting and this what i already said now uh that what you saw in in digital ad spend and everything but short term people were reluctant to spend keep the money in if you talk to the agencies now they say okay the money is coming back and we have clear we have clear indication from our customers that the money we lost is coming back and that's what gives us um

strong confidence in our core business.

Okay. Thank you. The next question comes from Anna Patrice from Bloomberg. Please go ahead. Hi. Hello. Thank you for all the information provided.

Just follow-up questions from my friends, please. First, I understand the volatility in digital out-of-homes. but could you explain why the classic out-of-home has increased so much in Tier 3? That's one question. And the second question is on the margins in their digital and dialogue. My understanding is that your online portals are performing well, but this is a high-margin business. So then why overall margin has declined in this segment in Tier 3? Thank you.

Anna-Patrice, it was virtually impossible to understand the question. Can you repeat it in a short form?

Sorry, can you hear me well?

Now better.

Okay, sorry. So the first question is about the out-of-home in Q3. I understand why digital was volatile. I couldn't understand why classic out-of-home has increased. Because here you have a longer lead time. So how could you increase all of a sudden by so much? And then in the Q4, what are the trends? Do you see again decline in digital and increase in classical? Or do you have increase in classic and also increase in digital? And hence overall you have low to mid single digit increase in Q4 this year. That's on the out of home. And then on the digital and dialogue, my understanding is that your own online portals were performing better and that's where you have higher margins. So why then overall margin has declined in Q3 in the digital and dialogue?

Okay, maybe on the out of home business, I think just referring back to what Udo said, I think the logics of digital out of home or digital media in general is that the lead times are rather short. So if there is a normal budget process then clients book also throughout the quarter and at the end or in the second half of the quarter all the money goes to the short-term bookable media the ones with the short lead times that's online media but also digital out of home so what we've seen in that uncertainty is that that like that additional spend that comes throughout the quarter or the kind of spot market is was extremely soft because clients didn't spend that still available money and kept it. So the media that suffer the most from that development are the ones with the short lead times that normally are the ones that only benefit from that money. Classic out of home has lead times of normally six to eight weeks and a lot of clients book it already six to eight months in advance to make sure that they get exactly what they want. So the extra spend on classic out of home for the second half of a quarter in the second half of the quarter is really limited. So there is nothing that you could lose short term. The loss that you have short term is in the short lead media. If that kind of extra money throughout the quarter doesn't come and if clients are holding back budgets. So I think that explains why surprisingly classic is suddenly a little bit better than digital out of home in that specific quarter, which is really a unique situation. We haven't seen something like that. I think the last time where I saw classic outperforming digital was in the pandemic because it was possible to cancel digital faster than classic because of the shorter lead times.

On your question on digital and dialogue, I mean, your assumption is right, right? That the sales performance in the actually highest margin area of that segment was relatively stable, as we said in the call. So the earnings deviation is not coming from, I would say, the sales performance on the owned content. The earnings decline more or less entirely relates to the list, to the lost business, let's say, on third party. And also to some extent on for the quarter now slower programmatic public video performance. I think these are the two drivers. So there's one weaker spot in the own content which comes by way of programmatic public video plus the earnings pressure from losing sales on third party inventory sales.

The next question comes from Miro Zusak from JMS Investment.

Please go ahead.

Hi, good morning. Can you hear me?

Yeah, yes, very well.

I have a couple of questions. The first one for Udo, you mentioned that you can see an acceleration in Q4 versus Q3. You elaborated on the crisis, which you mentioned, you know, from the tariff war. Are we back to normal already in Germany or do you still see an impact from this crisis?

I think we are in the recovery phase. I have a strong feeling that for 26 we are back to normal for the full year. The first quarter last year was very strong because we had the elections also, but for the full year I think we are back to normal. And then in Q4, let's say for the last seven weeks, we are six weeks above previous year. And so we will see in four weeks if you're really back to normal, but business growing stronger than Q3. And we see that this uncertainty stuff is out of the market right now. So now we, what Chris has said before, there's a completely unique situation that I mean, we expect analog to grow also, but low single digit and the growth will come mostly from digital auto form. And I think what I already said in the beginning, the difficulty with the crisis was that nobody, there was no clear start with a big bang or something. It came step by step by step, but like everything, for next which never happened before we had in the last four or five years now two first-time crisis one pandemic and one trade war with our strongest partner so this is i mean i'm 30 years in business this has never happened before but in case it happens again now we see now we know that there's a strong impact if i compare it the last 30 years and i have to say that The trade war crisis, you can only compare it with the world financial crisis of 2008 and 2009 and the pandemic. This is the last 30 years, one of the three biggest crises. And this is actually reflected in the spending. And now we see confidence coming back. And I would say, what I already said, for next year, we're expecting a normalised trading environment. expect the overall market to be flat maybe growing one or two percent maybe three percent something like this but this is enough for us to grow the business double digit and that brought you if you look back in 24 and 23 gdp was down minus point 0.5 minus 0 0.3 the market was even slightly shrinking and we could grow the business double digit or even 12 percent in 24. so because this underlying structural growth that I already described before, if you look on the upper funnel, brand building that is out of home is strongly located in the upper funnel. Our main competitors are TV and print. And linear TV is losing share, losing reach constantly. And by losing reach, you lose ad dollars. So we have a lot of discussions of customers who say, We need to find new solutions for the upper funnel, and we are absolutely interested in developing new solutions. At the same time, we have to realize that the media market is very conservative, and we have still 200 million euros spent in yellow pages, and nobody saw a yellow page in the last 20 years. Generally, people are doing the same split next year as they did last year, and then you can adjust gradually. And so that's why the market is also super stable. And don't forget, we show a clear growth this year in one of the worst environments in the last 30 years. I mean, this is also a very strong sign for the underlying structural growth, but to come back to one sentence again, 26, we expect a normalized trading environment.

Okay, cool. Thank you. And the second one for Henning, regarding the exceptionals that you book. I mean, it's a very constant number since 2023. Can we expect these exceptionals and these adjustments to continue, or is the baseline principally zero every year, and then if there is something, you book it as exceptional?

Well, I think, Miro, first, if you take a wider perspective, I think up until 2023, we have seen a consistent decline of those adjustments. One major impact last year was obviously the cost that arose from working on the transaction on the core business. Moreover, I think the point is, I mean, there will always be restructuring in a group looking at the portfolio that has our size. So I think there should always be some sort of a base level. I mean, think about what I said, told you about Statista, but that's it, right? So I think it's probably fair to say that overall, we would feel more comfortable with a level way below 15 million for a year. Sometimes there's stuff which is special, but I think we shouldn't expect that this number is going to go up big time. Will it ever be zero? Probably not, at least if the portfolio remains as complex as it is. As I said, there's always restructuring initiatives that we're working on.

Okay, very clear. We had in 2018-19, I think we had like the peak after a lot of acquisitions, the five, six years before. I think at that time adjustments were five and a half, even six percent of EBITDA. I think at the moment we are, as Henning said, 15 is as a normal run rate is like two, two and a half percent of what we do. So that's why I think it's the long-term trend shows that there will be always something, but it's a minor item in the low single digit percentage range of EBITDA.

However, for the current year, I think we're probably more close to 20 than to 50.

Okay, cool. Thank you. And the last one, share price at 36%. Given basically your free cash flow profile, wouldn't it make sense to take opportunity to basically buy some shares at this level?

It's definitely an opportunity. We are thinking about it, but there's no decision up to now. The share price obviously includes for the moment very big skepticism of the capital market for what's happening. That's also why we want to send today a clear message here. And if I look back, it's maybe the worst share price ever in comparison to what we produce in cash. So we are thinking about it, but there's no decision up to now. But clearly that is an option which is also interesting to our shareholders.

Cool. Thank you, gentlemen.

Have a good day. Thank you.

We have a follow-up question from Craig Abbott from Kepler Shriver. Please go ahead.

Yes, hi again. Sorry, I just want to come back on statistics again. I mean, you gave us, you know, quite a bit of insight, and the transition that's taking place with your large customers over at Statista Connect, and I fully appreciate that you don't have the visibility yet yourself. As you said, you think that data consumption will be quite significant. Therefore, the revenue potential over time could be quite significant. But as we're mapping out over the next couple of quarters and we're thinking about the declines in the inbound versus this transition taking place with the larger customers to the LLMs, I mean, just should we be thinking in terms of net-net impact on revenues for the next couple of quarters? Should we be thinking sort of in the dimension of what we saw in Q3, i.e., a modest decline?

uh i'm just yeah if you could maybe just give us some insights into your thinking there that would be very helpful thank you well i think in general on an annual basis i think the statistics of business will go forwards yeah i think uh uh that specific quarter is probably an not typical for the development given the special context but we don't know how much and how quickly and how strongly it goes forward there and i think that's going back to the point that ulu said we see good adaption to the new business model we see that we we only have penetrated a small share of our customers and that's not driven because all the large clients don't want, but know it takes time to adapt them to the new model and do the integration work. And then we'll find out with the growing number of customers what the underlying volume is. And I think that is crucial to define then what the growth potential going forward is. So we're in that intermediate phase.

yeah i think story fair to say that we still have consistent pressure on the inbound clients on those smaller ones that is not going to go away soon at the same time we keep on selling also the classical product which is growing but then i mean the third thing obviously is how fast can we build up monetization on the uh based on the different business model where you know we're basically paid upon uh let's say api calls as we go so that's i think probably we talk about This is not a question of a quarter. It probably should take some more time.

Look, the inbound business is dead. Inbound means there were private individuals, small companies, also for entertainment reasons. They were looking for stuff. And if you check for entertainment reasons, you go to LLM, you don't mind if it's wrong or almost right, or you could guess what it is. So that is, on the other side, this is also not a, It was always an add-on for us. It was never a strategic development area. I mean, Statista is the only global platform for statistic data. And this is, here on the valuation side, all or nothing. Either you need it to get better results in the LIM environment or you don't need it anymore. So this is completely black or white. And that is the only thing which is important for us because we are 100% convinced that the answer to that is white and not black. And 18 months ago, we were hoping it would be like that, but we didn't know. Now we know. And that is, I think, the key difference now. We know that Certista creates added value for all our clients and they know that well. But the clients need to also fix their systems. I mean, to build up a company GPT is a big thing that is not done overnight. And we clearly have to wait until the customers have a complete system up and running. And then they need to be able to connect us. I mean, we signed, for example, contracts with Microsoft. I mean, since six months, they're not able to connect us. You would guess that these big tech giants, they do it overnight, but they need now more than six months to connect us. It's everywhere the same. This AI world is developing very fast, but a lot what you read in the news is expectations and about the future. The reality is that you have to build it up, you have to make it safe, you need to keep it running, and you need to be able to integrate a lot of different stuff. And that's exactly where we are staying right now. But again, that is for us, that is execution. This is not the question anymore as that is a bright future or not.

Okay, thank you very much. I just want a quick technical to wrap that up, please. Can you kind of give us an idea of what the share still at the moment of this, say, low value add inbound traffic is? I mean, we're talking about 15%, 20%.

Out of the platform business, which by far is the largest segment of Statista, it's probably around 15%, rapidly declining, unfortunately, at the moment.

So 15% of the platform business. The platform business is probably what? 80%, 70%, 80%?

Platform is probably something like 65%, 70% of the entire Statista business.

Okay, that helps us to frame.

That's why even if you lose a third... on the inbound business you talk about like five percentage points so if your outbound business in general also on the classic business is still growing you're on the existing business model yeah okay also going forward But the key focus of the company is now on Statista Connect on the connecting the client. So our business, our focus of the salespeople is not, can we sell more seats to McKinsey on the existing contract? It's all about full focus on getting the adoption to connect as quickly as possible, interacting with how it's doing, what we can change, what the data volume is, how many tokens they want to buy and so on, credits. That's the focus. I understand your point that this trust doesn't translate in revenue directly and you need some kind of projections, but that's the tricky part. And that business part moves the needle going forward.

That's the point. If you have 10 or 20 or even 30 million more or less inbound traffic, it doesn't move the needle. is a billion euro business or it's worth 50 million. And the difference makes only if there's a significant value for our global clients in connecting Statista to their knowledge management system. This is actually, that is a key point which drives the value. This amount traffic up or down doesn't change anything in Statista's valuation. Also, the turnover is actually insignificant, in my opinion. I mean, the question is, if we improve on a global scale knowledge management system by 1 or 2%, then you have a big ticket on the valuation. And the turnover, if it's 20 or 30 million more or less, I don't think we're talking about APTA multiples or something right now. We talk only, are we able to make transparent what is an advantage in an LAM-driven world through statistics or no?

Okay, thank you. That helps us put it into a framework. Thank you.

We have a follow-up question from Anna Patrice from Bernberg. Please go ahead. Yes, can you hear me?

Yes. Excellent.

Perfect. Thank you. A follow-up question on the out-of-home segment. So what trends do you see now in the digital out-of-home? So it has been declining in Q3. Do you see that it is already back to growth in Q4? That's the first question. And the more strategic question on the digital out-of-home, how do you see its growth going forward? Is it because of the rollout of the new sub-segment, so to say, the retail one? Is it driven by increasing number of screens or you see also increase in the utilization rate? Could you remind us? Oh my God, I'm sorry.

It can happen. What was the last one?

What is driving the growth in Autofoam? Yes, sorry.

So on the digital Autofoam, is it the increasing utilization or increasing the number of screens?

I think we got the question.

By the way, congratulations. Statista needs more paying subscribers on the planet. Just the first question, Q4, do we see digital out of home back to growth? Yes. And source of growth in general, I think it's fair to say that 80% and more will come from better utilization. Up to 20% will come from further expansion. new products and it depends on how many new screens we deploy per year. I mean something like what we mentioned before a huge screen more than 340 square meters has of course an impact with one individual location. A completely new product category like city windows that we've mentioned before or retail media can open up completely new revenue streams. But I think in general that strategic shift especially from TV clients to TV plus digital out of home is ultimately driving the utilization of our core public video product in train stations, shopping malls and public transportation systems and broadside.

Every question is answered?

Thank you. Good.

The next question comes from Jérôme Baudin from OdoBHF. Please go ahead.

Yes, good morning and thank you for taking my question. I just have two quick follow-up on the outdoor. First of all, can you be a bit more granular in terms of cost in Q3 and Q4? What has moved up in Q3 and should move up in Q4? And Have you taken any cost measure to mitigate the top line situation in Q3? That's my first question. And secondly, still on 2026, just to be sure, when you are referring to encouraging talk for 2026, does it refer to January and February? for example, or is it more a general comment for 2026?

Thank you. Well, Jérôme, on the cost side of things, I mean, now, look, we have seen in out-of-home two quarters with more or less moving sideways in terms of sales at a time where we still have, let's say, regular cost inflation on tax, on maintenance and stuff like that. i think in that context earnings held up quite quite well so i think it's fair to assume that there's quite a bit of you know cost savings that are materializing in the pnl and i would and i would expect this to continue also on the fourth quarter already you know when we realized that the market is going sour and there was this heightened uncertainty around the terror discussion that was at some point in summer we decided to actually move in a fairly strict cost freeze. So we look at all individual cost positions, all the discretionary spans of what we can hold. And also at this point in time, we are not necessarily rehiring if there's attrition in the workforce. Exception is obviously when it comes to sales. So everything which is facing the clients, I think we're not cutting all the rest is subject to a very strong freeze still up until we realize that really things are improving.

So, I mean, one big topic here in cost saving for the next year is clearly AI because we have a lot of repetitive activities here like any other companies. So we have a higher freeze and the target is clearly that we introduce more and more AI solutions in our value chain. And in the next five years, actually, to give you an impression, we believe that we are able to save up to 50 million euros in costs, always depending on that we are able to deploy these AI-driven solutions, which would make us faster and improve our quality in many processes. But cost is clearly driven through these AI options, a key topic for the next five years. On the question with the turnover, I mean, we talk about the whole year now, because right now we are on the budget level discussion. I mean, we also talk about concrete campaigns in January, February, et cetera, already a lot, but Now is the time to fix budgets and to strike commitments. And customers are not on this so granular now by booking. I mean, obviously they have already bookings for January because it's only six weeks ahead. But we see the positive uplift for the full year. and we never talk about quarters in advance because you never know if the campaign is coming in February or April or January or whatever, so it makes no sense. I mean, for the full year, what I already said, we are absolutely confident that we go back to normal trading. We have strong interest for Q1. Do we see a strong growth? It's by far too early on the quarterly level, has also nothing to say. I mean, we always look on the full year and then actually we look always on the three years average. For us, it's important that we can show the growth rates we're expecting on the three years average because we have always also on a yearly basis exceptional situations. Like last year, we had the European the football here in Germany and the Olympics next door in Paris. This was an exceptional situation last year. That's why we always look on a three-year average because we are very long-term orientated. When we brought the Deutschlandreklam in 2004, the outdoor was at 2.7%. Now we peaked at 10.4%. And we believe that this is going to grow to at least 50, maybe 20% in the upcoming years. So this is for us key that we see that the structural growth trend is intact and that we outperform the market double digit. And that is what happened last year and where we are very confident also going to happen next year. Thank you very much.

Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Christian Schmaltzl for any closing remarks.

Well, thank you very much for your time and your questions. Just double-checked. Officially, we meet back in March next year, but I hope we catch up earlier.

Thank you very much. Have a nice day.

Take care.

Goodbye.

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now over. Thank you for choosing Chorus