Sparebanken Vest

Hello everyone, and welcome to Capital Market Day in Sparbanket Vest in 2024. Traditionally, we hold it in Bergen, with hopefully a sustainable program for everyone and for the market. In addition to focusing on the second quarter, we will talk about important topics at the moment, as well as where the bank is developing for recent initiatives. Few thought it was possible. The ambitions were great for a few years. Men jeg tror vi har vist at vi har klart å få til Bulda-konseptet. Simen som leder Bulda i dag skal fortelle oss hvordan og hvordan neste steg blir for Bulda i tiden fremover. 2024 er egentlig det første virkelig året hvor kravet til bærekraftsrapportering slår inn for fullt. Nå nytter det ikke å gjemme seg lenger for å si det sånn. Vi har startet med årsrapporten allerede i maj måned faktisk. Everything that concerns sustainability is important in terms of reporting, but not least in terms of how we manage our business. Just before the summer, we received an article in Financial Times that said that Sparbanket Vest was one of the leaders in climate reporting in Europe. We are of course happy about that, but we must also lift ourselves further. Linn will tell us more about how we work with sustainability in Sparbanket Vest. Sparebankkartet skal tegnes på nytt. Det viser alle funktionsendringer som har vært det siste halvåret og siste året. Og det er vel kanskje også slik at alliansekartet og grupperingskartet også dels skal tegnes på nytt. Fordi man ser også bevegelser mellom allianser og grupperinger i bankhverdagen. Hans Olav will tell us more about what we are thinking of doing with the foreign group, and will also come in and tell us a little about the purchase we have made at Borea Asset Management. But first of all, it is the second quarter, and Jan-Erik, you have used words that I saw today on the European record and the world record. In these old times, it is quite natural to use such terminologies, to put it that way. Maybe the best quarter ever, when you look away from it, there is no self-effect. Jan-Erik will tell us more about the speech first, and then we will take a Q&A afterwards, before we let go of the other three speakers. Please, Jan-Erik.

Takk for det. Bur du ikke, Frank, få en applaus? Hjertelig velkommen alle sammen. Veldig kjeft å se at vi er stappfulle i auditoriet her i dag på vår årvise kapitalmarkedsdag. As usual, if you have any questions along the way, send them to this e-mail. We will try to answer as many questions as possible along the way after my presentation. And I'll go straight to the numbers. We are, as Frank was saying, very proud that we delivered a one-capital drop in this quarter at 20.1%. This is a good and high level, at least if we take into account that we don't have any one-time effects, no return on losses or other effects in this quarter. So this is underlying drift in Sparbank Invest right now. We have a cost income, and there came the European record, or maybe even the world record, if you refer to one of the statements I had to the media today. We are very proud of a cost income of 24.2, and we believe that it must be one of the best cost incomes in the bank, at least in the Nordic, and perhaps in an even larger geography. And we have a solid... Core capital coverage with 17.8, where we consider 50% of the result in the first half of the year in our capital coverage. We are in a time where the capital coverage may vary a little more towards the goal than what we might want to see a little further in the way. And then I have first put up here our one-capital forecast in comparison with other natural banks it is natural to compare with. And then it has also taken with it here, how would the one-capital-discount put out on the largest Norwegian banks, if everyone had set their goal on capital collection. And then we also see that the underlying drive in Sparbank Invest is very good. If we had set our capital goal, we would have had a calm quarter on 21.7. And then we also see the one-capital-discount on the other largest Norwegian banks, who have already set their numbers, since they also had set their goal. And that underscores... that we have a very good quarter when it comes to underlying operations. If we draw the long lines on the one-capital transfer in Sparbanket Vestnoe, eleven and a half years here, from 2013 onwards, then we have set up the one-capital transfer to the bank, up to the goals we had throughout this period. We started with eleven, so we adjusted it to eleven and a half in 2018. In 2019, we adjusted the goal to twelve, and then in 2023, we adjusted the goal up to thirteen. But we have, in all these years, been over, or on, the one-capital transfer goal to the bank. We have had a robust... and low volatility of the bank over time. This means that we have a low risk profile in our portfolio. We have a high PMA share, which gives a stable and high risk-adjusted deposit in the bank over time. And how do we succeed with this? Yes, I have shown this many times before. It is the basic strategy. It is an expression of what we believe in in Sparbanket Vest. It is to build a bank with low complexity. For us, it means, for example, not an extreme alliance cooperation. We believe in having the most possible competence in our own bank. and build low complexity and ensure that we have the most possible lead on important decisions in our own bank, and especially in the IT area, which we define as core competence in developing strong performance. Digital leadership has shown that we are ready with an alliance-free strategy. Over time, we have built a very good continuity in the business market division and on credit and risk in the bank. This means that we have low losses over time. We have only 25 million in losses in this quarter. 18 of them are model-based. This means that there are few individual losses. And then we have... in a ten-year period, invested heavily in cultural development, performance-oriented leadership, development and competence, which I think is the main driver behind the good underlying drive that we see in the bank now. Over time, we have seen that this strategy gives a stable high in-capital spending. I'm going to share my presentation in three. A little about the key numbers and the core banking business. A little about the risk profile in Sparbank Invest and Låneboken vår. And finally, a little about why we think that the performance we have had in the past is also a good basis to continue in the coming quarters. If we look at the one-capital deduction, it is 20.1, as I was talking about. We had 21.6 in the first quarter. We have had a nice increase in the one-capital deduction over time in the last quarters. We have a result per one-capital proof of 3.93 kroner in the second quarter, which must be said to be good. We have a very good capital situation, as you know, so our goal is 16.05, a good headroom from that up to 17.08, and then we have a book first value per one capital proof now of 80.50 kroner. We have a very good organization. We have an incredible number of talented employees. We are very well positioned to take a good growth and a good market position in the future. If we look at the export growth in the last 12 months, it is 13.8% on the personal market, including Bulldar. One of the things that we are most looking forward to in this quarter is that the growth of Bulldar so far is 2.1%. We have a goal of growing with 4% ex-Bulda on the personal market this year. And we are well within the scope of achieving 4% ex-Bulda this year. And that means that we will take the market share. K2 growth on the sales will most likely be lower than 4% this year. Very important for us to succeed both with BM growth, personal market growth, X bull there, and happiness with bull there. And right now, all three of them are on target, or above target, and that's important for us. That gives us a 12-month growth of 13.8% on the personal market. And the business market, I would like to highlight, I'm going to come to a slide right after this, which illustrates that we have built a strong position in our region on the business market. We are able to grow very well, over 10%. with a good risk profile. It is not difficult to grow in the stock market, you know that, but growing with good risk and reasonable margins is what is difficult, and the stock market division in Sparbanket Vest has been there for a long time. Here we see our growth when it comes to breaking out of the stock market from 2013 and even the second quarter. This year. And then we see the number of misplaced and lost loans to business customers to the right of this slide. And then you see that we have had a very good growth over time, with very good risk selection and a sensible margin. And that benefits everyone who works at BM with a margin at the top, a great honor for, really something that makes the whole organization proud. On the investment side, it is also advantageous. The investment growth on the personal market is driven by a very good investment development in Bulder, which we will get to, and which Simen will elaborate on later in his presentation. An investment growth of 16.1 on a 12-month basis is very good on the personal market. On the business market, we see that it varies a little from quarter to quarter. And the assessments we make on particularly large single interest rates, up to what we can get market financing for ourselves. And part of the development we see in the business market is a desire and active choice in relation to profitable financing of the bank. If we look at the rent netto, it's a bit up from the first quarter. This is the first quarter where we don't have disturbing elements of rent changes in the quarter. This is the first quarter where we have full effect of all the rent changes we've had. We see that it's a relatively stable relative rent netto. And then we increase quite well because we have a good growth. And that's what you see in the nominal numbers on netto changes in rent netto. The margin picture is special, I think I will say. It is so that, especially in the input area, we have very good margins. Bigger margins on input than on output. It does not depend on the grip in a long-term perspective. There is also a margin on the output. It should cover losses that you do not have, of course, on the input side. So we are in a special time. It is not a particularly high output margin right now, but there are good input margins. That is actually the picture. It's illustrated in a good way here, where you see that the income margin is high, but the foreign margin, especially for the person who makes it, with 0,91, is not particularly high from a historical perspective. Cost development is one of the things we work most with if the cost of income is 24. If we look at the operating costs in the first half of 2023 versus the first half of 2024, we are on the same level. We have 898 million in the costs of the first half of 2023, and we have 903 million in the first half of 2024. Revenue-related costs are now up, of course. It is also about the fact that the IT division has been very good at following the plan we have made to convert consultants to permanent employees. This means that the external salary goes down, and then the salary and pension and other personnel-related costs go up. But it is obvious that it is profitable to convert consultants. An expensive consultant year at IT for permanent employees, and that's by keeping our cost growth in check for the first half of the year compared to the first half of last year. IT costs are demanding for all bank accounts, and we are in a special situation where we are on a new agreement with Tieto Evri, where EIKA has a good agreement as part of the conversion from STC, and there is no doubt that Sparbank 1 wants to maintain its agreement with Tieto Evri. There has been a legal dispute in several rounds, and it has not been resolved, which means that the two comparable systems are on a lower IT cost against Tieto Evri than what we do, Our cost development, I would say, is even more impressive in light of the fact that we are at a new cost level when it comes to Kjernebank, where we believe that everyone will eventually. If we look at net and new funding, our customers have a maintenance value fund of 24.2 billion kroner. Hans Olav will return to the purchase of Borea later, but there is no doubt that we see a great potential to take a larger part of the value chain in terms of savings and placement, and we have a significant volume for Sparbank Vestendal alone, and together with the other foreign banks, the volume is significantly larger than this as well. We are quite sure that this will over time be able to strengthen the investment in the bank. Net and new drawings in the second quarter are at a total of 283 million, so that's a significant increase. In addition, there has been an increase in maintenance value that goes beyond that, because they have a rise in value in their investments in the second quarter. If we look at Frende, Brage and Nordne, then Frende has a good quarter. The first half of the year it was under 1, so we still think there is potential to lift the results in Frendeholding. And then Brage Finans, especially one single commitment that pulls us down in the first half of the year, makes us on a calm at 10.3%. Over time, I see that we will be able to lift the results further, both in Frende and Brage, if we see the first half of the year under one. But a very good quarter in Frendeholding, and also full on and a little over what Fremtiden had and reported last week. So if we collect some of the views and the slides that I have gone through initially, then we increase the results of the forecast from a little over 1 billion to a little over 1.4 billion. It is not a single area that is with us to lift the results alone, but it is especially the netto that is lifted with the investment margin I have shown. We see that our provision revenues are lifted by 33 million compared to the same quarter last year. Connected business is a little ahead, 18 million. We still think there is potential to strengthen the results. Finance 35 million and a weak cost increase makes us end up at 1.4 billion, right on the edge of that when it comes to revenue in the second quarter of 2024. Very pleased with where we are on capital. We are the only one, as far as I know, that has used new IRB models. That takes a significant risk related to our capital coverage. That is quite important. And yet we are at 17.8 against our goal, which is 16.05. A significant headroom to our capital goal. And makes us have a significant growth potential, among other things, in terms of being capital efficient and putting this capital into work. That was the first part, a little of our key words, a little of the banking business. Then I thought I would say a little about our foreign book. We are dominated by personal market loans. 76% of our loans are for the personal market. 21, as you can see here, is Bulder. 56% is Sparbank Invest, ex-Bulder. And then there is 24% of our loans to the business market. The business market portfolio we are very pleased with. It is a well-diversified, reasonable risk profile, and I also showed in the state the lost and lost share of total loans, which is at a very low level. Primært så fokuserar vi på Vestland og Rogaland og Mølleromsdal i basisbutikken. Og så er det sånn at Bulder er landstekende med en veldig lav LTV, altså long to value. Og vi har ikke hatt et eneste kronitap så langt på Bulder, og det er viktig for oss. Derfor har vi sakte, men sikkert byggt stein på stein i Bulder for å ikke ta... negative risk selection, or getting a loss on that bet. And then Simon comes back again, that we have increased the LTV level in the bulldozer to 580, and we have a lot of other exciting thoughts about how we should increase the traction in the bulldozer, without taking an increased risk. We have also secured where we belong and where we have our important business, which is in these villages. If you look at the price development of housing, for example, in the middle here, over time, you will see that the price development from 2014 and forward has been significantly smaller in Bergen and Stavanger, which are two important cities in our market area. against Oslo, where we have significantly less exposure. And then you see that only 1.1% of our personal market loans are over 85% LTV, which gives a moderate risk profile, and our potential for losses does not increase very much with a certain decline in housing prices, with such an average LTV and a very limited amount of loans over 85% LTV. We have a low unemployment rate on the personal market. This is abnormally low, I think. We think that we should not be very stressed if this increases anything. And if we just look back to the first quarter of 2021, we see that we are at a very low level when it comes to unemployment rate over 90 days for housing loans. Of the proportion of out-loans. På et veldig lavt nivå, og hvis dere ser på avdragsfri tak for boliglån over 60% LTV, så ser dere også at dette er på et rekordlavt nivå, og stabilt lavt nivå enn så länge. Dette kan fort øke. Jeg har lyst til å si at her er vi på unormalt lave nivåer. And then we look at the business market and the sum of PM and BM here, then you see that the lost and lost loans in the last few quarters, the proportion of lost and lost loans on total outlay, is down, and you also see that we are down on the operating market especially, and that we are very pleased with. And then you also see to the right of this slide that we have a very good rate of return on the lost and lost loans. Whole 86% on the operating market and 67% on the personal market. So we have a very robust level of return, and we have moderate and low levels of lost and lost loans. We have been interested in the trading room that the bank has. We have of course underlined strict IFRS rules when it comes to loss assessments. But as you can see, we have had very low individual losses since the pandemic. And we have taken model descriptions in the running, so we have not returned the last quarter, as we have seen that a lot of others have done. Low individual deductions and a lot of what we have had as loss costs throughout this period have been model deductions that have supported the degree of deductions that I just showed you. That was a little bit about our loan book. Finally, a little bit about why we think we are well positioned to also deliver good results further. Yes, some of the most important things that drive our growth are satisfied customers. And we started early to measure customers, in a way. We have used the same questions in a very long time series. And we measure this quarterly. And we see that we... In 2024, despite the fact that many customers tend to respond a little worse to customer satisfaction, when the interest rates go up, we see that we are tanking all-time high when it comes to customer satisfaction on the personal and business market, ex-Bulda, and that we are very pleased with. We also see that Bulda has a high customer satisfaction, and that will Simen come back to, but for personal market in the bank and BM, we have... aldrig hatt høyere kunder tilfredssett på person- og bedriftsmarkedet. Det tror vi er et godt utgangspunkt i forhold til å kunne ta markedsandeler videre på, og et godt utgangspunkt for videre vekst og lønnsom vekst. We have something in the bank that we call the top-rolling ten, where we prioritize a number of things that the board of directors has on the agenda at each meeting. Two of those things are establishment and growth in Møller Romsdal, and strengthening the position in Rogaland. We are not concerned with growing in fast buildings, but we are concerned with building stone by stone. take the market share slowly but surely with reasonable risk selection and magic. And we experience that we have succeeded, and you can see a result from this. Here you can see slowly but surely how our market share on personal customers and business customers in Rogaland grows slowly but surely. And then you also see a little about how the first years After the establishment in Møre and Romsdal, when it comes to market share, you can see that we have grown a little more on the business market than on the personal market. Especially on the business market, we are very well received in Møre and Romsdal, especially Ålesund. And we are also on the personal market. It takes a little longer before we get to the same levels. Bulldar. One slide on Bulldar before Simen stops later. The 12-month growth from Q2 to Q2 is 21.6 billion kroner. It's amazing. This will swing a little with attention in the media, with interest rates, but the underlying long-term growth in Bulldar is fantastically good. I want to remind you that when we launched Bulldar, we had a very hard goal of getting a loan of 20 billion kroner. Now we have 21.6, just the last 12 months on the Bulldar concept. On August 12th, we have a loan of 56.4 billion kroner. We have an average loan rate of 42%, which must be said to be conservative. We have a very good knowledge. We have received a fantastic knowledge with very limited market funds. There, Simen and the gang have done a fantastic job. The number of customers has increased, and I am especially pleased that we have strengthened the supply chain, and have a supply chain in Buller up to 24.4%. That is strong, and that is a significant increase from what we reported last. We had a capital market day in Bergen. And if you look at where we are in the Bulda concept, then we are in line with what we guided on yesterday, on Capital Market Day. We said that at the beginning of 2024, we should have 60 billion in loans. At the beginning of 2025, we should have 73 billion in loans in Bulda. And at the beginning of 2026, we should have 83 billion in loans. Not a completely random level. 83 billion is the level S-Banken had when they were bought by DNB. So our thought is that we will be there by the beginning of 2026. We are a little ahead of what we have guided on when it comes to profitability. Marginal self-capital spending on bulldozer concepts now is just over 12%. So we have a little more headroom if we want to do something on pricing. In relation to what we have guided on, which is that we will be on a marginal self-capital spending on bulldozer concepts this year at between 7 and 9%. So now we are right on the edge of 12%. But we are out on growth anyway. Einar Smegda Vest also has a very good quarter. I don't think we have performed well enough over time. We do that in the second quarter. There we have a tax return of 20 million kroner. We strengthen our market share. We see that in our market field there is good activity, and we see that in what we define as our primary market, there is 14.4% more turnover in Q2 this year than there was in Q2 last year. We sold 15.6% more housing in Q2 this year than we did in Q2 last year. This means that we take market share. We have increased slightly from 12.2 to 12.4 in this quarter when it comes to market share for Ennismarga Vest. And we have also cut a large part of the costs in the United States of America, which we believe will also have an effect in the future quarters. So we have faith that we will be able to lift the United States of America well in parity with the other regional banks' United States of America over time. Borea, Hans Olav will come back again. We have a significant retention on the part of our customers. We believe that we can make money by taking a larger share of the value chain. We are very happy that Borea wishes to be part of this collaboration. We are very sure that Borea will be part of this collaboration. At vi, med vårt distribusjonsnett i Frende, skal bygge et sterkt og veldig spennende Borea. I sammen med den distribusjonskraften vi representerer, og den fantastiske kompetansen som Borea over tid har demonstrert i har, gjennom forvaltning av veldig gode fond. And then I think that the last light bulb in relation to a focus on performance and competitiveness, it's a lot about costs. If you want to succeed in maybe an even tougher magic field, you have to be cost-effective. And cost-effectiveness means that you have a good starting point for stronger competition. We think we will meet that. Standard banks get better frame rates from the change of year. This means that we get an even tougher competition in price. And then it's about having control of the costs. And that's what we're experiencing, and we're not in the mood. We're not satisfied. We still have things to work with. We're going to work especially in the IT area to break it further down. But we have a very good starting point when it comes to competitiveness through being a cost-effective bank. That was a little bit about our key figures, a little bit about the book, and a little bit about why we think we are well positioned in relation to strong performance and so on. We have a good history. We should not throw it away. We have shown here the one-capital drop in average from 2012 to the first quarter of 2024. With the figures we see from the second quarter, we will not be disappointed in this time series when we add one more quarter. And our ambition is of course to be the winning team in Norwegian banking and finance. And we will work hard for that. And we also believe that we have a very good value proposition for our investors. We believe that customer exchange and high gift rates, great social engagement is a value for our investors as well. We believe that we have succeeded very well with digital development. I like very much what I have seen in the last six months when it comes to the ability to do to make our digital space more of a distribution channel for the sale of insurance, funds, loans and so on. There we are a very good place now. I am sure that there will be a lot of exciting deliveries in the next six months in that area. We have high ambitions for sustainability. That's what Linn will come back to. Vi har bygd en kultur som ønsker å prestere godt. Det tror jeg gjenspeiles i tallene. Jeg merker et helt annet engasjement rundt kvartalstallene våre nå enn for bare 4-5 år siden. Det handler nok også om at 3 av 4 ansatte er eiere i banken nå. Og så skal vi levere på 13%, men vi skal også levere på å være blant de to beste på enkapitalavkastning over tid, sånn som vi har vært i kvartalene som kommer. So with that, I would like to end the first part of this Bolken today by wishing Breda Frank a welcome. And then we will take questions and answers that came in along the way, or that you in the audience had to ask us.

Thank you, Jan-Erik. It's good to meet you in the room today. I already have my hand up here, so that's good. Let's see. Yes, we'll take it here. We'll take it here. Let's start with Håkon. If you deliver...

Håkon Astrup from DME Markets. Two questions. First, a little more generally. You are the largest bank that does not have any Oslo offices, and you also have high ambitions for the BN growth. How long will you be able to have such a high BN growth without having any offices in Oslo? That was the first question. And the other question is a little more technical. It is related to the capital coverage. And there has been a clarification of the risk weights for IRB banks. And have you calculated how much, if the proposal is in force, how much it costs for Sberbank Neste?

Yes, we have no plans for the Oslo office. We think we still have a very strong and good potential along the coast. And especially Rogaland and Møre Romsdal is a very important growth market for us. And what we are doing right now is opening up in Møre Romsdal. And we have made a business case there. So when they come to different threshold values, they get a new year's work. And the same we have done in Rogaland. And think that we also have potential to strengthen the market share in our old Hordaland. For the time being, it's not like we have to go to Oslo to get our growth. And we believe in the strategy we have put in place over time, which is perhaps a kind of defender of the principle of the church tower. We believe that we must know, especially on the business market, or the market area we go into. And we believe that we are on a very... A special place in history when it comes to low losses. And we also want to be relatively good at losses if this becomes more difficult. And it's a bit about knowing the market areas that go into the business market. And I'm quite sure that what we see with over 10% growth in the personal market in our region, we will be able to continue for a period of time without traveling to Oslo. And then it's like this, because you supplied me with the board, but... But we don't think that this proposal, as you mentioned, will be taken into account. It has been proposed before and has not been taken into account by the Finance Department. But if that were to happen, then our capital debt would fall around our goal, if that were to happen. But we have quite good faith that it will not be an accident.

For us, this is just the floor on the personal market that gives an effect on the business market. So what we suggest is that this will not give any effect on us. So this is only a change in the floor on the personal market from 20 to 25 percent.

Oh, are you sending the microphone away?

Thank you for that. Roy Tilly from Arctic. A couple of questions from me as well. Firstly, you still have very good growth in both PM and BM. I note that some of the other banks that have reported reported better growth in PM in the second half of the quarter. You report that it was best in the first half, if I read correctly. And in August, you had 56.4 in bulls. At the end of the quarter, it was 56.1. Have you taken your foot off the gas? Or is it just a natural variation in the growth rate?

2.1% in the first half of the year is good ex-bulls, we think. If you look at the quota growth. We have been very clear over time that we will not trade profitability for growth. But we should lay a little over the market growth over time. We do that in the first half of the year on PM ex-bulls. When it comes to bulls, Simen can answer that tonight, but we have been very careful throughout the summer. The easiest thing would have been to double the market budget, employ more people and so on. But we have been concerned about keeping costs low, so that this does not ruin the peace to the bank. And throughout the summer now, we have not used money on marketing, just to have a little dry fruit over the autumn. And Simen will come back to that, but I'm pretty sure we're going to reach the 60%. And then there is the bulldog concept, a concept that gets a lot of traffic when the interest rate is in the wind. And then when it's a quiet summer, the traffic is a little less. So it's quite natural. But we have a formidable growth from Q2 to Q2 at 21 billion. And then this has also been swinging historically. I'm quite confident that we will deliver on 60, and if you had told me one and a half years ago that you were going to have 60 million abroad by the beginning of 2024, I would have laughed a little at that. So growing over time is fantastic, and I'm quite confident that we... We will grow with a reasonable margin over time, and that is our goal, not a growth for every price. That is where we stand.

In the second quarter, the housing turnover is much higher than it normally is. Buller has roughly only one product on its housing, and that is to move housing from other banks. So there is more activity on housing turnover, refinancing and financing evidence and that kind of thing, than the special products that Buller has on its housing. But that will, as I said, also stimulate

We are working on increasing the rate of the bills that Simen mentioned. We have launched a housing loan up to 85% LTV for example. We are making some adjustments to ensure that we increase the rate without being at the bottom of the price all the time.

I have a question about the cost. As you pointed out, you are almost flat nominally this year, which is very good for most people in the industry. But you are still going 5-7% of the time throughout the year. Does that mean that there will be a lot of cost in the second half of the year, or are you just a little careful with the guide?

So a little conservative, perhaps.

Thank you. Jan Eivik.

Danske Bank har jo tapt 65 milliarder i boliglån de siste to og et halvt årene. Så det har jo vært oppsummert kommet til sparebanker og alle andre banker som har hatt fantastisk vekst. Hvor mye av veksten har kommet fra Danske versus andre banker, hvis man ser litt på de tallene, hvor man ser særlig på refinansieringsbiten, som det kanskje er mulig å se på, fordi der utbytter man vel til banken som man refinansierer fra. So is it possible to see how the growth has been, and what kind of growth one can expect underlying? You mentioned a little bit, Jan-Erik, that 2.3 is perhaps a very sensible addition to the Sparbanken Vest channel, and the bubble is in the upper edge. But is it so that we can expect that the growth will actually go down a little bit in all banks, before it can possibly speed up again, because one has gotten such a high share of housing loans from the Danish in recent years?

Yes. I think we'll just send it back to Simen, and then you can answer exactly that with how much of the bull growth that came from the Danish. Microphone. Go ahead.

When it comes to Danish, a large part of the portfolio has been moved. But they have lost some volume, and we have taken some from there. But less than you would think when you hear the number, what was it you said, 56 million? 65, yes. Yes, and I think that a lot of it is the agreement of the association that is moved with a click of a button, and then it will come more out over the years when the customers will actually move.

Do you have a question about net growth? If we could expect that growth in the market would be totally negative. But K2 growth is a net growth, and there are some movements below that. But my experience is that I don't see that K2 growth is going to go up so much with the first, as it looks now. So we have to make sure that... K2 growth will be between 3 and 4%. And that we will be a little above that in the personal market in the West Bank, that is our thought. But we don't see it as a shift in net growth and K2 growth.

Johan. Thank you. Johan Strøm, Carnegie. It's very nice to see the interest around Bulder. I'm interested in hearing a little bit about how interesting it is for your own book as well. How much cannibalization do you see between Svegg and Bulder customers?

Cannibalization is one of them. We have about 4.5% market share in Norway on the personal market. And then cannibalization is between 2 and 3%.

It's actually lower in the second quarter than it was earlier.

So if we take the starting point between 2 and 3 percent, then we see that cannibalization is less than it should have been out of our market share in Norway. So we have succeeded very well in keeping cannibalization down. When we launched Bull, we took a rise of 15 percent, and then we are between 2 and 3 percent. So there is no concern we have, and we see that we handle it very well.

In short, with 83 billion out of loans, do you think there is greater cannibalization?

Not percentually, we think. We think we have a great potential. We work on a number of concepts, thoughts. We increased the loan to 85% LTV. We can go as far as to come with a first home loan every now and then. We work with thoughts that will take up that growth without us necessarily taking too much from the bank. We are quite comfortable with that cannibalization. We think that if it were to be on the north side of our market share, which we are far away from now, we think we have to live with that. This will be so good for us. On other areas, both when it comes to increasing the margin, we think that over time we will have an in-water effect from Bulder and not an out-water effect. We also see in our IT environment that there is an enormously large, and that is what we hoped for when we launched Bulder, and performance value. For example, now we are working on a large project that is about to optimize the loan everyday for our PM advisors. There, the Bulda team is a very important premise, because they want everything that is digital on the customer front to also be seamless on the back. And then we have to make the way we work more effective, so that we can take away a traffic on the advisors and in Bulda as well, which is very fluctuating. And there we are at a very good place, Simen. You can say a little about that. But of course, there we see that the insight as the Bulda team is sitting on, where it is completely dependent on understanding what happens in the loan flow when we lose customers, what happens when we can improve this and that screen picture to attract as many customers as possible through digital loan flow, then we have a very high value for the bank. So I am quite sure that the value for us is not only financial, it is also significantly competence-wise where we are now, and Bulda attracts single projects that we would not have achieved with the same quality if it had not been for the Bulda concept in-house.

Thank you.

Thomas.

Thomas Svensson from ECB. You talked a bit about margins, that we are a bit out of balance on income and foreign margins. As you think, if we look forward, if we get more in balance, how much do you think that can hit negatively on net and interest rates on today's business volume?

That's a very difficult answer. But I think that it's not allowed for the supply margin to be reduced alone, while the foreign margin is resting. So it's a very difficult answer. I don't know if we dare to think about it. Yes, it's very difficult.

But what we really believe is that the margin picture is at the top after all. At least in the end, it will be something in the future. Whether it's next year or next year, it's very difficult to say. But the sum of the margins we have today is relatively good, but some are low on the outside, so we think something will come up. And then maybe in the investment margin some will come down. But what will balance out is difficult to say.

If you were to change a little, isn't that necessarily something that is completely wrong for a bank at a slightly low financial level?

Question number two. If we still assume that this is a cyclical industry, which is difficult to believe now, what do you think will trigger the cyclical downturn for Norsk Bank in the design?

It looks very good, right? It's low unemployment. The competition seems to be good. We have a weak crown. So it's really difficult to answer what will change this picture significantly. But as long as people are at work and the salary is reasonable, this looks good, right? And for a bank that has 76% of its loans with moderate LTV, as we have, as I was through, I don't see how this will turn out in the short term. But it's still the case that we like to be a little conservative. And we are coming to a very low level of loss. 25 million with the foreign book we have, where 18 is model-based in this quarter, that's a low level. And it's not just this quarter, so we're coming from a very low level in a historical perspective. I don't know if you want to add something?

Yes, we had expected, as you were saying during the presentation, that the loss would be higher than it actually is, and as you were also saying, I think we might see some negative development in the future as well. But we have a pretty good buffer to handle that, and then we also want to... The top level might go up now. But I think it's very difficult to estimate. We have said that many businesses are doing very well. Some businesses have challenges, like construction and construction, for example. But in sum, the picture is relatively positive. We run this Vestland index every quarter. The feedback from business leaders in Vestland is that they see a positive development, and they have positive expectations for the future in most businesses, but of course with some exceptions.

Thank you. More questions from the audience?

Jan-Erik? The margin of income was, as you said, quite good. To what extent do you see now that the amount of wages is no longer falling in relation to people actually moving over to a different type of savings? Because you may not have as much money left by the end of the month as you might have had at the beginning. Is that an effect that you then have the amount of the salary account at a higher level than you might have had for a little while? Before, it was one thing if you had a salary account or a savings account, because both were zero. But now you might have a high amount of savings account, and then you have a small amount of salary account. But at some point, you might use up the money you have for the expenses you have during the month, and then you might not dare to move some money anyway. Has it been increasing, or has it stopped falling, or is there something we're missing in the magic of the balance sheet?

It's true that the balance sheet has fallen over time. What we've seen, as I think we're starting to see the trend in the last few months, is that it's starting to flatten out a bit. We have about 30% of our personal market balance sheet. If we look away from bills, it's the balance sheet. The rest is the savings account, the placement account, that kind of thing. And then there is a bit of a seasonal effect right now. Tax money, holiday money, which has gone up to perhaps somewhere between 30 and 35 percent right now on Q2. But it seems a bit like we have reached a level around 30, 28 to 30. So that's right. So it's a bit of a coincidence, but we believe that that adjustment is behind us.

Thank you.

We have a microphone on that side now.

Just to sneak in one more on what Håkon was talking about, with the potential for 25% risk on Boland with IRB.

I share the understanding that it seems unlikely, but if you were to go through, would you deliver back IRB on Boland?

You should at least seriously evaluate it, because then... You should read the transcripts in the media, I'm sure.

I didn't expect to see that I made sense of it.

But of course, it doesn't make sense to say it like that. If the risk factors for a large part of the property theft, if you have IRB, would be higher than if you do it on the standard method, with that framework and that structure and everything we have around it, and all the control we have connected to, which is related to IRB as such. So... No, I don't think we'll deliver it back again, because of course we also have the business market side, which has positive effects, or lower risk effects.

But you can keep it, can't you?

Yes, of course, but... And we don't think that the 25% will become a reality.

But of course it will. I think it's the opposite of what your point illustrates, how reasonable that would be.

Thank you.

More questions from the audience?

We have good time.

We have time for that today. We have good time.

Thomas? You get a good response on... I think I'd like to start by saying that

What we have done in recent years is to build trust in the capital market, to build income as growth, to build stone by stone, and not go to the capital market and say, accept a little lower exchange rate now, or a little lower peace, we are just going to grow a little, and then the results will come around the next turn. What we have tried to do in recent years is to build boulders in front of the frame of being among the best in the capital market. Especially on boulders, I think that illustrates our discipline, because the easiest thing would have been to double the market budget and give them twice as many employees and just profit from it. Then we would have been 83 billion much faster. But then we would have won out the bank's one-capital transfer in a different way, and then we wouldn't have been able to build that concept within the framework of being among the best in one-capital transfer. So I'm really proud of the bank's employees. That has built so much value, as we have built in Bulde. But at the same time has had a very competitive calm. And a competitive output policy. We will not leave that core strategy. What we do now in Rogaland and Mølleromsdal is a defined business case. When we get to that volume, you get an extra year's work. When you reach that trigger. I think we are disciplined. There is a term called start to succeed when it comes to start-ups. The start-ups that get all the money and resources they need in the beginning, they rarely succeed with the salary at the end. And that's a bit what we think at Sparbank Invest. We think that we should have a careful approach and build rock on rock. And then I think it's right to go away, not only on the cost side, but also go away on credit if you want to have 20% foreign growth. I was involved in 20% foreign growth in a period in the bank from 2006 to 2009. We grew up on shipping. We grew up on business. We were on 20% growth. We learned that. Thank you.

Andre Salen, who is wondering something. No. No. And the questions that have come in on the net, we have also answered. So then I think we round off this part here. I say thank you to Frank and Jan-Erik. And then we start in a quarter to three with Bulder, Bærekraft and Frendegruppen.