Vaisala Oyj

Welcome to Vaisala's fourth quarter and 2024 results call. I am Kai Justyman, CEO, and I'm joined here by Ville Voipio, who is our chair, and Heli Lindfors, who is our CFO. Welcome to everybody. So the fourth quarter, it was an excellent finish on a very challenging year, as you may recall. We started the year with a planned ERP change and the industrial actions in Finland and a challenging environment overall in the year, challenging first quarter in terms of results, but we have been improving since the first quarter and finished really the year with an excellent fourth quarter. And excellent, I would say, in all aspects, whether we look at the net sales, if you look at that growth in year-on-year, 14%, order book, 25% orders received, almost on par compared to the previous year, remembering that year before, year ago, fourth quarter, we got the Kuwait deal, which was historically the single biggest deal that Vaisala has ever gotten And that was booked in fourth quarter. So the comparison period was kind of extraordinary high. And even with that, we got to almost to the same level. And as a cherry on the cake, the operating result margin EBIT margin got to be 16.7%. So I would argue that in all aspects, really an excellent finish of the year and an excellent quarter as such. Before going into the actual financials more in detail, just a reminder on our strategy and our purpose. Our purpose is taking every measure for the planet. And in strategy, there are four strategy drivers, customer understanding and application know-how. That's where it all starts. Then that together with a product and technology leadership, that's actually the secret source for us. In combination then with excellence in supply chain, how do we actually find scalability in a very high mix, low volume environment as we are in, and all built on purpose-driven culture and talent. With four strategies, growing in industrial measurements with breakthrough technologies. expanding in energy transition and building recurring revenue in data, driving profitability with being global leader in weather systems, and then finding always ways how do you make that scalable and simplifying our ways of working and finding ways how we actually can really scale the complex environment that we are in. I'd like to take a moment and actually reflect on this, on what we actually did as examples on what I just went through. I talked about the purpose that we had, taking every measure for the planet. It's good to remember that we actually did quite a bit of work the year before and crystallized and launched taking every measure for the planet in February last year. And this is something which is not a major event last year, but it's something, a foundation, it's something that will carry us many, many, many years going forward. And we find this to be both extremely powerful in guiding what we do, but it's also very powerful in us differentiating ourselves in multiple different ways, not the least in terms of an employee market. whether it's our own employees or future potential employees, having a real purpose where you can actually talk to your near and dear ones, where your daily work really matters, I think is a huge, huge asset. Then... This is not only us talking about sustainability of our model, our purpose, but it was great to see the recognition by Time magazine as being one of the world's best companies in combining sustainability with growth. And I think, you know, getting these kind of an external objective recognitions, being one of the leading companies in the world and really the leading company in Europe, it really was a great testament on who we are and how we do things. A few other things just to pick up from last year. I talked about the leader in weather systems, the fact that I think on this slide is the big deal that we got on nationwide weather radar network in Spain, 18 weather radars in Spain. with the meteorological agency in Spain, with a possibility on further expansion, if things go in the right way, kind of major deal in scaling our weather radar business to a new level. We did three different acquisitions in terms of driving the growth in weather data and in energy transition. The fact that we also launched many, many new instruments, and I'll pick just one, which is which is the instrument meant for carbon capture usage. And knowing that the carbon capture is a small business today, but our vision and belief is that it will be a big business end of this decade or in the 2030s. And it's really, really important to be part of actually creating that ecosystem, understanding, getting the customer in-depth, customer understanding, in the early trials, in the early implementations. And it shows also the commitment that we have, not only the short-term growth, but the long-term growth of the company. I talked about the operations side being the secret source for us. We started the investment into the new automated logistics center here in Vantaa, Finland. which is now taking shape also in a physical way. The roof is there, the walls are there, and we are starting actually the implementation of the machinery inside. It will be a key way of how do we take even further the capability to find scalability in a high-mix, low-volume environment. and all built on really a high purpose and engaged employee, which is shown by the employee net promoter score. So overall, not just in terms of the numbers and the financial results, I think the, there's a many, many things in, in year 2024, which, uh, w which we at Vaisala can be very, very proud of building the foundation also for the future years and the success in the future years. Now, moving on to the financials. So excellent operating margin, 16.7% EBIT margin, really an excellent result as a result of excellent finish of the year. For those of you who have followed us a longer period of time, There's a certain pattern within the year how our EBIT margin follows the different quarters. In this year, actually, we performed extraordinary well both in the second quarter and especially in the fourth quarter, which then led into the year's kind of a great result on the annual basis, but also it's very visible on the fourth quarter EBIT margin as such. I talked about the orders received on almost on the level of the record quarter that we had a year ago on the back of the Q8 deal. Order book on a high level up 25% compared to the end of the previous year. And then net sales increased by 14% year on year in fourth quarter. Net sales was driven by multiple different things, among which one of the drivers was the large orders received during the earlier quarters and now being implemented and delivered to the customers, but also things like growth in the subscription sales, and also the pickup of the pace in the industrial measurement side, which I'll talk about next. And as a back of the kind of a higher net sales, the gross margin also improved clearly compared to the previous year. And cash conversion, I'll talk about that as well a little bit later, continued to be very strong in the fourth quarter and throughout the year. So back now into industrial measurements, and I'm very happy to report the strong net sales growth in fourth quarter. The orders received increased by 6% year on year, resulting in order book up 5% compared to the same time previous year. It sales up by 12% compared to year on year. This on the back of maybe a couple of things I want to highlight. In these calls, I have said I think two times in a row that very early signs of recovery have been visible in North America. Now I guess it's time to call it early signs of recovery. So recognizing that now we have a third quarter in a row where we are seeing recovery. It's still kind of early on the recovery to the full potential, but we are now having a good kind of a traction on that. And then China was also a bright spot now on the fourth quarter and clearly great to see that being back on kind of a clearly a growth number after multiple challenging quarters in a row in Chinese market. And then as a result of increased net sales and the gross margin improved as well, leading into EBIT margin improving significantly to 21.2%. Then moving on to weather environment, We kind of run out of the objectives now on weather environment. The strong performance continued. I think this is now a fourth quarter, at least fourth quarter in a row, with the same headline. But that's what it is, a strong performance continued. Slight decrease on orders received and the reason really was the extremely strong comparison period of the year before. But order book, if you look at where the order book stands at the end of the year, we are 30% up compared to the same time previous year. Net sales, really, really happy to report net sales increased by 15% when comparing to the same quarter previous year. driven by, again, the large orders in the previous quarters now being delivered, organic growth in subscription sales now being 18%, which is a bit higher than what the average for the year was. And this all resulted in gross margin improving as well, following the growth, and a good mix in sales as well. leading into, what I would say, as long as we have had a weather and environment business area, the highest ever EBIT margin, finishing with 13.8% EBIT margin, which is really fantastic. Moving on to other financial metrics on cash flow, we continued on a good level. The cash conversion from operating items continued to be 1.0. some decrease on cash flow from operating activities, mainly due to the increase in net working capital driven by the higher net sales, or the net sales growth actually. But like I said, a strong cash flow continued on a good level. When we look at the full year operating result, great to see that we finished the year at 15% operating margin. The orders received grew by 7% and net sales grew by 4%. Gross margin improved, EBIT margin improved and leading into EPS of 1.1 euro 76 euro cents which is a significant uptake also from the previous year. I want to take a moment also here just to recognize as well that in 2021, we launched a new strategy and metrics for the new strategy for the strategy period of three years where we said, we would target to grow on average 7%, so 7% on average growth and end up with the operating margin of 15% by the end of the strategy period. And it really, happy to report that we actually met the promises that we made three years ago. This is a fantastic slide to show, continue to show that now over 10 years in a row, increasing dividend, if you take the additional dividend out, but I think it's fair to take out, and this is not something that many, many, many other companies can show. It is something to be really, really proud of as a continuum and shows, shows how the company has been, for a long period of time, performing with a good momentum and improving metrics. So the proposal for the annual shareholder meeting is that the dividend for 2024 would be 85 euro cents, which is 10 euro cents up from the previous year, driven by the higher profitability, as I spoke. We continue to be on a very strong financial position. We have a very low leverage on our balance sheet. The business model that we have is very asset light. We have few investments. We both started investments and did investments during last year. I spoke about the automated logistics center here in Vantaa Finland, which is progressing according to the plan. And just to remind you, we expect that to be operational during the second half of this year. And then we announced and closed the acquisitions of Nevis, Speedwell and Weatherdesk, both for the renewable energy and then for the data sales. Few words on market and business outlook. So when we look at the market outlook for this year, we see growth in industrial instruments, in life science, and in power. In power, this is a continuation of the trend that has been there for some time. And then on stable side, we see meteorology, aviation, roads, and renewable energy. Many of these are actually by nature stable industries with some fluctuations between the years such as the meteorology and aviation and roads. They by nature as a market are stable and we see that continue throughout this year as well. This then leading into business outlook for 2025, and we estimate that our full year 2025 net sales will be in the range of 590 to 620 million euros. The comparison we ended last year was 565 million euros. And then on operating results side, and now we are guiding in terms of EBITDA. And just as a reminder, we estimate that our full year result in EBITDA terms for this year 2025 will be in the range between 90 to 105 million euros. The comparison number here for last year was 90 million euros. So with this, I just want to kind of one more time recognize that the excellent quarter, excellent finish for the year, a lot of hard work throughout the organization and lots of kudos to our colleagues across the company from sales to operations, to logistics, to finance, to actually get the orders, manufacture everything, deliver it to our customer and recognize the revenues, a fantastic finish of the year. With that, I want to finish and open up for questions.

If you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you wish to withdraw your question, please dial pound key six on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from Nico Ruakangas from SEB. Please go ahead.

Hello. Thank you for the presentation. This is Niko Ronas from SEB. I have a couple of questions, and maybe starting with the order development in Q4. So, as you said already, you had good order growth in weather and environment, excluding that big order from the comparison period. So, was there something bigger also this quarter in Q4, or was this just generally good development?

No, generally good development. We didn't have anything extraordinary kind of recognized now in the fourth quarter. So it was just kind of lots of kind of smaller and mid-size orders.

All right, I understand. Then on the profitability side, where you saw quite nice improvement on both business areas, you mentioned that you performed extraordinarily well in Q4. So is this something you expect to keep also going forward? Or if not, what are the gains or items you think that you might lose in 2025 compared to now Q4-2024?

Yeah, that's a good question. Thank you. And I think there are a couple of things that I want to recognize now in Q4. And some of them, I think, are a result of... hard work that we have been and fruits from things that we have been doing over the kind of sometimes even couple of past years that uh one thing is that we were sometimes you know the accuracy on delivering everything everything uh the whole order book especially at the end of the year especially in a situation where We had very few working days in the month of December when all the holidays dropped into the weekdays instead of weekends. In that environment, I think our operations and sales performed extraordinarily well where we actually were able to recognize the order book very well this year. Also being able to to manage the demand between the years and the year end, especially on the industrial measurement side. And thirdly, I think the kind of a success also on cost control, where we have had a bit of negative surprises at the end of the year in terms of maybe lack of discipline in booking costs and so on. And we had none of that during this year. So there were lots of these kind of operational improvement. The last one actually is more of a shift within a year. It's a question on when do you book and ask, You should book it when the actual cost occurs, not just forgetting it to be booked in the fourth quarter, which unfortunately we had a bad habit of, and now we've done it, and certainly we intend to keep that going forward as well. But that was more of an in-year improvement rather than going forward. that when we compare to different years, I don't think the last one necessarily is something that, you know, is a between-the-years improvement.

Yeah, I understand that explains. Maybe continuing on the profitability and going into 2025 and your guidance, where your guidance midpoint roughly indicates a flat EBITDA margin, So is this kind of explains what you just said, that you don't expect similar kind of efficiency in 2025? Or what is the reason for not kind of expecting margin improvement despite sales growth?

Yeah, so first of all, I think we had a very good finish of the year. I think that's now the comparison gets harder. That's one side. And the other thing is that it goes a bit on the net sales guidance as well. Like you saw now in the fourth quarter, our business scales very nicely when we overperform on the top line. Yeah. Now, given everything that is going around in the world, the uncertainties are, I've said this before, but I would kind of use extraordinarily short visibility in many things because of all the geopolitics and tariff discussions, potential tariff discussions and so on. So it's very hard to be or having a good visibility on the demand side throughout the year. One thing being what it means to us, but especially what it means to our customers, this uncertainty. And in a situation of uncertainty, it's just easy to move little bit investments into the future. So we are kind of cautious in this lack given the lack of lack of visibility okay so that you then prefer to give a kind of cautious guidance uh given given the uncertainties we we give the guidance in the same way as we always these are the numbers that we believe in but the i just remind you that it's it is yeah the demand side kind of extraordinary lack of visibility at the moment in terms of when we think about the entire year.

Sure, sure. Then last one from me, I guess that you already a bit discussed this, but could you describe a bit environment in the US within your customers and how have you seen or have you seen your client's behavior changing during this kind of political uncertainty period?

Yeah, so short term, like, you know, it's hard to compare like a month. It's too short. But if I now look at last year, I think first time I commented on the very early signs of of potential recovery starting in the US was second quarter, and now there's three quarters in a row where we have seen a gradual improvement, albeit still early vis-a-vis the full potential, as I said earlier. So at least it seems like the optimism in our customer side has been kind of increasing slightly throughout the last year.

All right. Thanks. That's all from me.

Thank you.

The next question comes from from Evli. Please go ahead.

hey this is after from every research thank you for taking my questions and and congrats on the strong q4 uh first still on on the guidance uh i'm trying to challenge you a bit so if we consider the current tailwinds you have a strong motor book you have improving marketing industrial side and also you have done the

acquisitions in weather so so in what kind of a scenario is the lower end based upon like said the there's uncertainties you can play many many scenarios in in how the world is going we have not taken into a of change in tariff regime into account when giving in the guidance. And the reason for that is so hard to actually even speculate on that given the wide range of the commentary in the public space at the moment. But it does create uncertainty, obviously, this kind of all the speculation that is ongoing, the discussion that we are having at the moment. I mean, these kind of many companies are having the same thing and creates uncertainty and kind of a... in times of uncertainty, easy to push your investment decisions a bit forward with the hopes that visibility improves. That's the maybe unintended consequence of all this kind of dialogue at the moment.

Yeah, got it. Thank you. Then on the weather side, You obviously aimed to turn the subscription business to profitability during the current strategy period. I was just thinking that how this developed already during Q4, was the business already in black figures, for example, in terms of EBITDA or still in red?

I don't want to go into fourth quarter. I think we still have our work cut out a little bit on it. You have to remember also, if you look at the numbers on the subscription side, I said the organic growth was 18% when you compare to kind of comparable assets. And then on top of that, we had a bit of a tailwind in the actual reported numbers from Speedwell Climate, which was there for most of the quarter and then a bit of it like last month also from Wetterdesk. So there's a bit of a boost from both of those as well. And clearly now going into 2025, we have a bigger base to grow from. And we anticipate and expect that we will grow kind of on a historic level, kind of when we look at the organic assets and with the new assets, obviously the integration is well going on and we would expect to grow in a double-digit also when we think about the new assets.

Yeah, thank you. Then also on the weather side, you have now had stable outlook for the renewable energy for two quarters, yet you are growing there strongly, both net sales and orders. Is this due to you getting market share or how do you see the market at the moment and your position also in it also going forward?

Yeah, so I think there is a pause, I would describe it this way, especially on the offshore wind, but also wind investments overall. partly driven by the uncertainties that we talked about. And it's partly a demand question as well, that many of the energy-hungry investments have been postponed, therefore the need for further investments in renewable energy has been little bit postponed and the other thing is that in the U.S. clearly the environment is changing and there probably is, I think it's fair to assume, a pause in, especially on the wind side, less so in the solar side, but on the wind side. It's not a stop, but there's clearly a slowdown on the growth side, especially in the US. But nothing has changed in our view, kind of when we look at the little bit like longer term view. I mean, we are still just in the beginning of transition from carbohydrates to renewable energies.

Got it. Then my last question is a bit technical and for Heli. So how large share of the total intangible assets consisted of goodwill at the end of the year?

I think we even gave it as a figure in the release. So let me check. I think if you have other questions, I can check in the meantime and get back to you.

I suggest that if there are any other questions, then Heli will get back to you.

Yeah, no problem. I have no further questions. That's all from me. Thank you.

The next question comes from Matti Rikkonen from Carnegie. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon. It's Matti Rikkonen, Carnegie. A couple of small questions and then some questions for the future modeling. I'll start with the simple one. In industrial measurement, you had the growing line in services, and you have basically said that it's because you are now putting more emphasis into that and it's more predictable. Now that the base number has increased in 24, Do you think that the growth can continue in IM services at the same level, or should we expect that it will drop to a more normalized level, which it was before?

Yeah, so very good question, Matti, and thank you for that. So we have had actually throughout the year kind of a higher than historical number kind of a growth rates on the services side, on the industrial measurement side. And that's, as I said, and we discussed in the previous quarters, that's partly because on the back of the high growth that we experienced in the years 21, 22, where kind of a very strong, let's say growth, and now we are kind of, now the embedded base is bigger, and now we are benefiting from the embedded base that we built during those years. So that's part of it. And part of it is the hard work we have been doing developing this business. So it's like a combination of the two. The kind of eventually, I would say, not hard to model exactly a quarter or a year, like the impact on a higher... higher embedded base growth that we had during those years that slowly dilutes. But the intent is that we intend to grow it faster than the top line of the industry measurements, but kind of continue to grow it as such and see it as an important part of the value that we create.

All right. Thanks. That's helpful. Then a question related to the large weather orders that you have received, and they are now in the order backlog. And now I'm mainly talking about the period of 25 to 27. So what kind of revenue distribution should we expect for those orders? I'm mainly meaning that is it going to be kind of evenly split per time, or is it more back-end loaded? Because when the orders land at different years, it makes quite a big difference in how you assume the revenue recognition during that period. So could you discuss that a bit and help us understand how we should be modeling it?

It partly depends on the case. So first of all, if you take it like two examples, the Kuwait and Spain, the Kuwait is clearly a longer period of actually the delivery of the system. And it is a more complicated system consisting in multiple different kind of processes. sets of equipment and systems compared to Spain, which is a weather radar network. Complicated by itself, but it is a weather radar network. And Spain is a shorter period of time also in terms of delivery, where it's going to be a bit last year, this year, and going into the year after, when the deliveries are going to be on the Spain side. barring further purchases that were optional in that contract. So some of these things we kind of recognize as a kind of level of completion, the revenue. And some of them, the project in a more complicated side, may have a little bit of a... shape, as you indicated, that's a little bit more back-ended loaded. But some of the other ones, like I would say, like the Spanish case, not so much. It really depends on what projects are we talking about. There's always a little bit more in the back-end, but not much.

Okay, fair enough. That's good. And then related to the Indonesian order, which is not yet in the order backlog, is any of that embedded in your guidance for 2025, or should we assume that it will not even begin before 2026?

It's just not going to be, like even if it begins this year, it's not going to be a meaningful revenue or recognized this year, even in the best case, so not no is the answer. It's a kind of a 26 and onwards. And first, we've got to close the deal.

Yes, of course. Thanks for that. Then another kind of technical question. Now with the Weatherdesk acquisition and the others, you mentioned in the Q3 report and commentary that because it's software, there will be a large share of deferred revenue. And I was just wondering, again, for modeling purposes, that how much of the kind of annual revenue that Weatherdesk normally makes would actually be deferred revenue in your accounts so that the actual new revenue that you would book in your group net sales would be lower? So could you give us some indication of the split how much is in the balance sheet and not affecting top line, and how much is actually then affecting top line positively during 2025. And also, I'm assuming that this would be maximum 12 months impact, so that in 2026, you would have a kind of full revenue contribution from Weatherdesk.

So the 12 months... Yeah, the 12 months is absolutely so. It's only for 12 months. But maybe it's, Heli, better if you comment on how the accounting treatment is.

So the accounting treatment, what we get as the deferred revenue, it's only around, so depending on how they invoice or have been invoicing before and what we get as assets. So we do expect to see an impact on that, but it shouldn't be more than 20% of the revenue. Not even that. And it should be gone after next year.

So basically, you would be booking roughly 80% of weather desks comparable or revenue normally and then only only maybe 20% maximum would be not recognized as revenue in 2025. Correct. Exactly. All right.

Plus obviously all the growth that we may have on those assets.

Yeah, of course. And I'm also assuming that the costs will be incurring normally, so that if temporarily you are missing the 20% of revenue and you will still have 100% of costs, then naturally the margin contribution would be lower than it would be then in 2026, when you have kind of 100% of revenue and 100% of costs. Is it that or is it something different?

It is that.

All right, good. Could you also advise us with the acquisition related amortization in 2025? Now we saw the Q4 number, but will it increase from that quarterly level going forward? So, I mean, to calculate your EBIT A would be much easier if we knew that how much the acquisition related amortization actually is. So any indication of that would be helpful.

Yes, of course we have also old acquisitions where the kind of amortizations are ending and then we are having the new ones that are coming in. So we are expecting at the level of 10 million in 2025 for the amortizations.

And that's in total?

Yes.

All right, thanks. Then a couple of small ones. The rental income, it's a small line but it increased quite a lot since the earlier quarters was then something unusual behind the increase or should we expect that that is the normal rate going forward that's uh related to the wind lidar lidar business and uh

I don't think there was anything extraordinary in the quarter. There's some fluctuation between the quarters, but in some time it's a fleet that gets rented and then partly also then refurbished and sold afterwards. So a bit fluctuates on what that size is between the different quarters.

All right, good. Then my final question is related to the strikes in Finland or the potentially more strikes in Finland. Have you been affected so far and do you think that you will be affected in the near future?

We have already had a six-day strike two weeks ago, a week ago, and then there's a new announcement which will start the week of March 3rd, if I'm not mistaken, where the entire working week, the strike is going to impact us as well.

So six days already and then seven days in addition.

I think it's a similar six days. So it's from Monday morning until Saturday night.

Okay. How it's announced. All right. Thanks for this. I have no further questions.

Thank you, Matti.

If I can answer the question.

The next question comes from Valtteri Rossi from Danske Bank. Please go ahead.

Valtteri, before you ask the question, maybe Heli will answer Arttu's question.

Yeah, sure. Go ahead.

Thank you. If you look at the cash flow statement, you will see that our acquisitions were roughly 87 million on top of the normal capex. And more than half of that will be goodwill. The final figure you will see in two weeks' time, or three weeks' time, in the annual accounts.

Okay. Valtteri, your turn.

Okay, so I guess I can go. Thank you for the presentation. First question regarding the industrial measurements. If you look at the historical development, it's been quite steady between quarters. Are you expecting it to be relatively stable also this year?

Yeah, barring any kind of speculations on what happens in the world, but barring all that, I don't see any reason why the shape of the demand would be any different than other years in the past.

Okay, okay, that's clear. Then what about the seasonality and project timing this year in the weather and environment? segment between quarters. Can you help us kind of model that that line a bit.

That's more challenging and it does fluctuate. As a reminder for all of you that there is, as was part of your indication of your question, that it does fluctuate between the quarters and not all the quarters are similar exactly for the reason that especially with the now the bigger projects that when certain milestones are get gotten and when the revenue is recognized, you know, it has an impact between the quarters. We have not given any guidance on a quarterly level on how to think about that, but there will be, I would assume that there will be a fluctuation as there has been in the past years.

All right. Fair enough. Thank you. Then about the profitability in weather and in environment segment, you mentioned that good sales mix was part of the good profitability last year. Can you help me understand, is it more about the mix in terms of different segments or mix within the segments, for example, in aviation and metrology?

It's less between the mix in the segment. It's more products and projects is typically what it drives. The products have a higher gross margin and a higher profitability than when you recognize a lot of projects. And then some of the products per se, in relative terms have a little bit of a different cross margin profiles. So there's a bit of that as well, but it's mostly between the products and projects.

All right. Fair enough. Then lastly, still on the profitability in the weather environment. As I said, 2024 profitability improved quite a lot. And it seems to be coming from all lines in the P&L basically. Do you expect this kind of similar improvement to continue towards the company level target this year as well?

Yeah, so obviously we had, like I said earlier in my comments, that we had a tailwind coming from the growth on the net sales, which always kind of reflect, kind of then there's a scalability impact into profitability as well. And then now, given that we are on a very good level in Many of the segments like meteorology and aviation and so on, we have been very successful with many of the bigger and smaller projects recently. As the market is not growing, there's a kind of a limit on how far you can continue to grow, natural limits on how far you can continue to grow. Not necessarily that we are at those limits exactly yet, but it is going to be harder and harder to continue to grow on kind of a traditional side of the business. And then as we talked about the renewable energy, a bit of a, as we have been saying now for a couple of quarters, that bit of a pause, I would say, in the market, describe it that way in terms of now world being a little bit more challenging for new wind projects, impacting also our short-term growth prospects on those.

All right. That's it from me for now. Thank you. Thank you.

The next question comes from Pauli Lohi from Indears. Please go ahead.

Hi, it's Paolo from Inderes. First, I would like to ask about, you mentioned the improvement in industrial measurements growth in China after a weaker period. Is it mainly due to lower comparison figures or do you see any fundamental improvement in China?

That's an excellent question. Part of it is obviously the lower comparison figures, as always. But there was a kind of even sequentially, when you look at it, it actually was kind of an improvement. So there was a bit of an improvement in the marketplace. Was it just one quarter or will it continue in the next year? We have no evidence either way at the moment. And China has been, there has been quite a bit of a cautiousness, which I've spoken about in the previous quarterly calls. In overall, in terms of our new investments and everything else, there's new stimulus packages. How much did that have an impact yet? Time will really kind of, and how lasting impact did it have? Time will tell. But obviously, you know, last half full is that we did have a kind of a clearly a kind of better quarter now in the fourth quarter. And let's see how it continues.

Thank you. That was very helpful. Then discussing about potential tariffs from America or USA, if they would set general import tariffs for all the European imports, how would that affect your competition dynamics in the US? Do you have any significant competition in there that produce domestically something that you import from Europe?

Great question. And so in some segments we have domestic competition, some segments not. And how to think about it is that there are few places, and this is clearly a minority, in industrial measurements where we have local competition. Majority of it is kind of other European global companies which would not have a manufacturing in the U.S., And then on weather environment side, likewise, we do have some competition in some segments in kind of as a US-based companies, majority of the competition would be coming from other kind of European global companies. That being said, the other thing in maybe kind of worthwhile saying in weather environment, kind of good to remember that when it's a question of public customers, they have fixed budgets and their budgets are not going to increase if there are going to be tariffs or whatever. limits a bit on on how much you can compensate by increasing prices which was i assume behind your question behind your question and in the end market will decide how much can be compensated by by by increasing prices thank you that was very very good answer well uh then looking to the growth in europe and middle east africa if the growth are strong in q4 so

Was there any large project delivery boosting that number or how do you see that market?

Yeah, so that was really driven by the weather environment side and many of the kind of impacts that we talked about. It really was all the larger orders actually are in Europe, Middle East, Africa side this year. Like if you think about Kuwait, that's the Middle East, Spain is kind of Europe and so on. So there has been quite many kind of European side on that side. And then on the other hand, if you look at the investments overall in Europe, they have been few and far apart. I would describe it that way. And the uncertainty that the discussion, for example, with the tariff regimes, it doesn't help.

I understand. Okay. Thank you very much. That was all from me.

Thank you, Pauli.

There are no more questions at this time, so I hand the conference back to the speakers.

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