Porsche Automobil Holding SE

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. Welcome and thank you for participating in the joint media analyst and investor call regarding Porsche AG's Q3 2025 results. This call will be hosted by Dr. Jochen Bregner, member of the Executive Board for Finance at IT. During the intro statement at the beginning of our call, all participants will be in a listen-only mode. After the intro, we will jump into the question and answer sessions. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1. At this time, it's my pleasure to hand over to Dr. Sebastian Rudolph, Vice President Communications, Sustainability and Politics. Please go ahead.

Yeah, thank you. And hello, everybody, and welcome to our joint media analysts and investors call. We're talking about the results of the first nine months of 2025 of Porsche AG. And with me today are our CFO, Jochen Breckner, and Björn Scheib, our head of investor relations. Jochen will give you a brief overview of our business performance year to date. Then, after a short break, we will hold two Q&A sessions, first with analysts and investors, then with the media. As always, you can find the press release in the Porsche newsroom. The investor stack and the quarterly report are available in the investor section of the Porsche website. And with this, I hand over to my colleague Björn.

Sebastian, thank you very much. Good evening also from my side. And before we begin, please note that any forward-looking statements during this call are subject to the risks and uncertainties outlined in the Safe Harbor Statement. which is included in our materials. This introduction is also governed by this disclaimer. With this, I hand over now to Jochen.

Bjorn and Sebastian, thank you very much. Also, thanks everyone for joining this call. Good evening, everyone. Let me walk you through Porsche's performance in the first nine months of 2025 and the strategic actions we have been taking. Let's start with the big picture. Porsche continues to build on a strong foundation, a loyal customer base, a compelling and completely refreshed product portfolio, and one of the most iconic brands in the world. Keeping in mind the current gaps in our product portfolio, our unit sales are resonating well. As you've seen in our press release two weeks ago, Porsche reported robust delivery figures with 212,500 vehicles delivered to customers worldwide between Jan and September. Here, the share of electrified vehicles significantly grew to 35.2%. In Europe, the share even reached 56%. Our region overseas and emerging markets and the USA achieved a new all-time record. North America remains our largest region with 64,000 deliveries and a 5% increase. Now let's skip from deliveries to vehicle wholesales. Here, Porsche sold 198,000 vehicles in the first nine months. This is a year-on-year decline of 11% with a mixed picture across model lines and regions. The Macan showed strong momentum, becoming the best-selling model with 61,500 units. That's a 10% increase year-over-year and includes 33,900 units of the new all-electric Macan. Sales of the Cayenne declined by 22% due to a prior year catch-up effect. The 911 saw a 6% drop, linked to staggered launches of the new generation. The 718 was impacted by limited model availability due to new EU cybersecurity regulations. North America, excluding Mexico, recorded a 6% decline in the first nine months, This reflected temporarily lower imports after the summer break following high inventory levels at the end of Q2. China, including Hong Kong, saw a 25% drop. This was driven by ongoing market challenges in the luxury segment, intensified competition, and a strategic focus on value-oriented sales. In contrast, our overseas and emerging markets grew by 3% to almost 40,000 units, which demonstrates resilience and growth potential. Porsche's global sales remain well-balanced across key regions. This underlines the strength of the brand, the appeal of our product portfolio, and the resilience of our diversified market presence. Despite adverse market conditions, incoming orders remain robust. This reflects strong brand desirability and a favorable product mix. Demand for individualization options remains unchanged on a very high level. In the first nine months of this year, Porsche generated group revenues of 26.9 billion euros. This is 6% below the prior year period. The under-proportional and moderate decline was primarily driven by positive pricing, along with higher revenues in the financial services segment. This performance underscores the strength and diversification of Porsche's business model, even in a challenging market environment. Let's now take a closer look at our expense development in the first nine months. Total expenses, including cost of goods sold, distribution and administrative functions, increased by 2.3 billion euros year over year, reaching 27 billion. Despite temporary relief from lower production volumes on cost of goods sold, Porsche faced broad-based cost increases driven by several structural and external factors. These are the persistent inflationary pressure across the supply chain, a significant increase in R&D expenses, primarily due to reduced capitalization and higher depreciation and amortization, geopolitical challenges beyond our control, most notably the US import tariffs and significant costs associated with our strategic transformation initiatives. To counterbalance these headwinds, our comprehensive profitability program pushed to pass delivered targeted efficiency improvements. This initiative reflects Porsche's disciplined execution and long-term commitment to innovation, regulatory preparedness, and cost resilience in an inflationary environment. Nevertheless, group operating profit declined to 40 million euros. This corresponds to an operating return on sales of 0.2%. a result that clearly falls short of our expectations. It is important to note, however, that this figure includes substantial extraordinary charges. Year-to-date, Porsche recognized approximately 2.7 billion euros in extraordinary expenses related to its strategic realignment, portfolio adaptions and battery activities. In addition, tariff-related costs imposed a burden over 500 million euros, which further impacted profitability. These charges also had a significant impact on the automotive segment, which reported a year-to-date operating loss of 200 million. Let me emphasize, excluding the extraordinary effects from the strategic realignment and the US import tariffs, the underlying performance of the automotive segment remains robust. This strength is driven by favorable pricing, the successful execution of our push-to-pass initiatives, and a temporarily favorable foreign exchange and quality environment. Reflecting the operational strengths of our ongoing business, Porsche's automotive net cash flow increased to 1.3 billion by the end of the third quarter of this year, up from 1.2 billion euros in the prior year period. This corresponds to a net cash flow margin of 5.6% compared to 4.8% a year earlier. This also highlights our continued focus on disciplined spending and effective working capital management. The strong cash flow performance in Q3 was supported by disciplined investment and spending practices, as well as rigorous working capital management. Notably, based on our value-oriented production approach, we achieved a significant reduction in temporarily elevated inventories in the United States and China, which had built up by the end of Q2. Year-to-date, automotive net cash flow also reflects extraordinary outflows of approximately 900 million euros, These are primarily related to our strategic realignment initiatives and tariff-related expenses. With that, let me turn to the outlook. We plan to continue our model offensive and customer-focused product strategy. Porsche remains well positioned from both a product and pricing perspective. Our core assumptions regarding unit sales, supply chain stability, and cost trends remain unchanged. Recent news flows underline that global supply chains are expected to remain volatile. The supply bottlenecks at the Dutch chip manufacturer Nexperia continue for the time being to have no impact on production at Porsche. The Dutch company Nexperia is not a direct supplier of the Volkswagen Group. However, some Nexperia components are used in vehicle parts with which also Porsche is supplied by its direct suppliers. The Volkswagen Group is currently examining alternative sourcing options in order to minimize possible effects on its supply chain. The company is also in close contact with potential suppliers in this regard. Porsche has also set up a task force. In light of the EU-US agreement on import tariffs, our forecast for the full year reflects the 15% US import duty effective August 1st. we are proactively implementing mitigation measures, such as targeted pricing adjustments, to preserve margin integrity. Without the product-related portfolio decisions made last month, Porsche would have reaffirmed its original Group Return on Sales outlook from Q2 2025, despite persistent market headwinds. As a result, we expect Group Revenue in the range of 37 to 38 billion euros, unchanged from our previous guidance. At the lower end of the bandwidth, we anticipate a slightly positive group return on sales and an automotive net cash flow margin of 3%. At the upper end of the bandwidth, the group return on sales is expected to reach 2% and an automotive net cash flow margin of 5%. The latter remains well within the range of our initial guidance from the end of April. The Group's return on sales guidance for full year 2025 reflects approximately €3.1 billion in extraordinary expenses, primarily related to strategic realignment efforts. These include the repositioning of Salesforce Group and adjustments due to recent product portfolio decisions. Also, the Group's return on sales guidance incorporates a high triple-digit million euro impact from US import tariffs. For the full-year automotive net cash flow margin outlook, we anticipate outflows related to our strategic realignment initiatives alongside tariff-related payments of approximately 1.2 billion euros. Our cash flow guidance of 3 to 5% for the fiscal year reflects the tariff agreement reached between the EU and US authorities. Assuming reimbursement would be recognized post-December 31st only. Current expectations support maintaining the guidance unchanged. We continue to pursue a disciplined currency hedging strategy. For 2025, substantial exposure has already been secured, with significant coverage beyond 2025. This approach supports planning reliability and safeguards margin integrity. Before concluding, let me briefly address our capital allocation strategy. Driven by the new product initiatives aligned with our strategic realignment, we anticipate R&D spending to peak in the current and upcoming fiscal year, followed by a decline. Porsche remains committed to delivering a reliable dividend to our long-term shareholders. Supported by our strong balance sheet and robust cash flow, the Executive Board currently intends to propose a dividend for fiscal year 2025 that deviates from the medium-term policy. In absolute numbers, the proposed dividend is expected to be significantly lower than last year's payout. But it still would clearly exceed the level implied by our medium-term framework of 50% payout ratio. Final approval remained subject to the relevant corporate bodies. Porsche has reduced its asset base by more than €1 billion in 2025 compared to previous year. This reflects a significantly lower capitalization rate and reduced capex year over year, combined with higher depreciation, amortization and impairments. Looking ahead, our capital asset allocation strategy will increasingly emphasize partnerships and licensing over ownership and vertical integration. This shift will not safeguard but enhance our agility and strategic flexibility. With this, we strive to better seize opportunities in a fundamentally transformed market environment. With a clear focus on involving customer preferences, we are expanding our portfolio to include additional combustion engine and plug-in hybrid models. This strategic move complements our commitments to electrification and ensures a broader offering across key segments. We also continue to execute our successful halo strategy, anchored by high impact lighthouse projects that elevate brand desirability and attract high value customers. Models such as the Cayenne Turbo GT and the 911 Dakar exemplify our unique blend of performance and lifestyle appeal. They reinforce Porsche's identity in the inclusive segment, The latest result of this strategy, the 911 Turbo S, has received strong demand and highly positive feedback from both media and customers. This underscores the enduring strengths of the 911 brand. Starting in 2028, a more balanced drivetrain offering will further strengthen our market position and support sustainable long-term growth. We remain also committed to electromobility and view decarbonization as a core societal responsibility. To rescale our operations and strengthen long-term resilience, we have already taken decisive steps to align our cost structures and strategic footprint with future market realities. We have initiated a comprehensive workforce transformation targeting both direct and indirect roles in order to ensure organizational agility and efficiency. We are accelerating cost efficiency initiatives across the organization to unlock sustainable savings. In China, we are executing targeted strategic adjustments. including streamlining our dealer network and reinforcing our presence in high demand regions. Where long-term profitability is no longer viable, we will responsibly reduce our footprint. Originally, we anticipated reducing our dealer network from approximately 150 dealerships down to around 100 by 2027. This target has now been revised downward to around 80 dealerships, reflecting a more focused and profitability-driven approach. Additional measures are currently under evaluation. Let me also briefly address the discussions on our future package. As you are aware, management and the workers' council are currently engaged in constructive dialogue to jointly shape this initiative. Our shared objective is to enhance the company's resilience, flexibility and agility, thereby reinforcing our long-term competitiveness in an increasingly dynamic market environment Importantly, we do not anticipate any significant extraordinary burdens arising from these negotiations. While all these measures will temporarily impact our financials in 2025, they are strategically sound and essential for long-term success. We are confident that this approach will strengthen our position in a dynamic market and support sustainable value creation. Porsche has a proven track record of navigating complex environments and we are currently managing through another period of macro industry wide challenges with strategic clarity and operational discipline. With our strategic realignment, we are executing a clear plan designed to strengthen our brand and to sharpen our product offering. Our focus remains on enhancing product portfolio flexibility, strengthening product individuality, increasing exclusivity and driving desirability across our portfolio. These efforts are aligned with our long-term ambition to position Porsche for sustained high margin growth and resilient profitability. We expect 2025 to represent the trough in the current cycle. From 2026 onward, we anticipate a meaningful recovery in performance supported by positive momentum from our product portfolio and the profitability measures from push to pass. And with that, let's turn to your questions after a short break. Thank you very much.

Ladies and gentlemen, we will now have a short break before starting the Q&A for the analysts and investors. Please hold the line. Ladies and gentlemen, at this time, we will now begin the question and answer session for the analysts and investors. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. You will hear a tone to confirm that you have entered the queue. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Please press star key followed by zero for operator assistance in case of any technical difficulties. Participants are requested to use only handsets while asking a question. Please ensure that all other devices with which you may be watching the video stream in parallel are completely muted to avoid interference. In the interest of time, please limit yourself to one or two questions. As mentioned, anyone who has a question may press star and one at this time. With that, I hand over again to Björn Scheib. Please go ahead.

Thank you very much. So we will start the Q&A session for analysts with Tim Rokosa of Deutsche Bank. And then next in the row will be Horst Schneider of Bank of America. Gentlemen, as said, this is a joint media and analyst call. As such, please limit yourself to one or quite short, two questions. Thank you.

Thank you very much. It's Tim from Deutsche Bank. Thank you, Jochen, Sebastian, and Björn. I would have one and a half questions then. It's actually pretty good underlying margins and free cash flow numbers. It's a 12%, 13% margin adjusted for one or some tariffs. Now tariffs will likely be the new normal, and that also feels like you still need to do some repositioning for the business, fine tune here and there. Jochen, when can we expect the burden from one-offs to really go away and think about an underlying matching the stated figure? Is that 26 or already during Q4? And then when we think about Q4 and 26, is there any soundbites you can already give us? You sounded pretty confident in your statements. Can we assume that you can possibly improve as of today? from the 5% to 7% EBIT margin range that we had previously. Is there any sort of major one-off still to be expected in Q4? Thank you.

Tim, thank you very much. And as you said, we were really happy with our operational performance in this year for the first nine months. And as discussed and just also elaborated on, we had various one-time effects that will go away in the future. As of now, we have posted 2.7 billion until September. And this is expenditure. Your question was about cash, but let me start with that one. 2.7 billion that we've already posted for the effects that you know, strategic realignment, that we commuted at the beginning of the year, also our organizational adjustments, and then the latest decisions on the updated product portfolio. So these expenditures are already digested in Q3. We expect additional one-offs and special expenses in Q4, as we've guided for. So when we look at the full fiscal year 2025, we are very confident that we will reach the 0% to 2% profitability guidance corridor. For 26, no major one-off effects are expected. So the expenditures that we need for the strategic realignment, for reorganization, the by far biggest part will be in the books in 2025. Now, on the cash flow side, again, a very robust net cash flow. By the end of Q3, we have optimized working capital. We have reduced spending as good as we could. And most of the additional expenditures we had for the one of effects were not cash relevant until the end of September. Some of them are already gone as cash spending, since we are talking about depreciation of Capitalized R&D expenditures, for example, and other cash effects are expected to be ahead within 2026. So again, by the end of this year, cash flow margin will be between the 3% and 5% that we've guided for. And having said all that, for the end of 2025, we also will have first effects for the strategic realignment for 2026 pulled forward into Q4. um 2026 it's too early to guide that year and we will do that as always with the official forecast report with the annual press conference but as i've communicated it earlier and also in this statement we will be in a substantially better situation on reporting numbers 2025 will be the trough But having said that, we do not expect on a return on sales level a double-digit performance in 2026. That is something that we will target for the years to come after 2026.

Would you confirm, though, your previous statement that a high single-digit margin is possible with everything we know today? Obviously, things can still change, right?

You're saying a high single-digit margin is possible for 2026? I would confirm that, yes. Thank you.

Next in the row is Horst of Bank of America, and he will be followed by Sam from Exxon BNP.

Okay, can you hear me? It's Horst here. We can hear you. Okay, that's great. Thank you. Yeah, my first main question that is basically on the tariff again. I think that's an item that surprised me the most on the upside in this release. So you say it was above 500 million in year to date, which implies the burden of something like 100, maybe 150 million euros in Q3. I know the tariff came down, but it looks to me that the impact in Q2 was a little bit overstated. And in Q3, it was basically there was a benefit from kind of Tariff provision release, maybe. So maybe you can explain that and also the magnitude of that. And is it right, basically, that now the underlying tariff burden is something like 250 million euros and not 150 million euros a quarter?

Thank you. Yeah, the situation was quite complex, Horst. So maybe just for everyone in this call to have everyone on the same sheet of paper. We are 27.5% as of April 3rd, then the reduction to 15% as of August 1st. And on that assumption, we are also guiding the full fiscal year so that tariffs will remain at 15%. Based on quarterly numbers, we communicated with the H1 numbers that we had effects from the US tariffs around 400 million euros, and by the end of Q3, cumulative numbers are a bit more than 0.5 billion euros and this is a complex math of the varying um rates that we had the 27.5 and the 15 percent um we did not have the 15 for for the full third quarter and that's something that just kicked in by the end of july so as august first and based on these assumptions and and facts by the way in the actuals um we've made up the um tariff numbers For the full year, we expect a very high three-digit number. You can do the math. I mean, having the number for the Q2 with the special effects, also Q3, lower rate, and first pricing mitigation numbers that we have there. So for the full year, we expect the tariff burden to be in the ballpark number, as I've communicated also in the last call. So that's something that we would see around about 0.7 billion for the full fiscal year.

Okay, that's great. Just a small follow-up. Would you be able to comment on price mix in the third quarter? Because you raised prices, maybe you can give a wrap-up again overview by how much. And are any further price increases coming from here, or you're basically done now with the tariff pricing?

We've increased pricing for the new model year 2026 across the board for all regions. That's an effect that, depending on the launch of these new cars, already started to kick in in Q3 and will further strengthen the pricing position throughout the year and then also for 2026. On top of that, we had an additional pricing hike in the United States for a first compensation measure for the US tariffs. to keep our margins on a decent level. And coming to pricing as a mitigating effect on a measure on the tariffs, we are planning to have an additional price increase in the month to come. It's not communicated yet and not decided in full detail yet. So that's something you can watch out for. But we really plan to have a second step there. And the full effects of all these pricing measures will be seen in 2026.

Just as I got it right on this carriage, you said 0.7 billion for the full year and you have not released provisions in the third quarter. Did I get that right?

I said that for the full year, we expect 0.7. billion euros as a tariff effect and that includes and is based on the assumptions that we have paid the 27.5 percent until the end of july and that we have paid and will pay the 15 percent from august 1st through december 31st but to be clear there is no release in any tariff provision or anything as such okay okay that's clear thank you so much

Next in the row will be Sam, and he will be followed by Steven from Bernstein.

Hi there. Thanks for taking my question. Building on Tim's question, frankly, around the reversal of one-offs into next year, which judging from your previous answer was that you basically expect them to fully reverse. What's the risk here that with the new CEO, we get further tilts in the strategy into next year and therefore further one-offs? Or is the assumption that he's going to come in and adopt the exact strategy that's already been laid out? That would be my first question. Then a quick question on China. Have you seen any impact of the luxury tax that's come in in demand in August and September or any pre-buy in July before it came in? Thanks.

Yeah. So on your first question, Sam, whether we would expect additional strategic realignment decisions with the new CEO coming to our company on January 1st, Michael Leiters, that's something that we will see when he's here i mean he's not here yet um he's in a competitive situation with his former company mclaren so we have not started discussing professional issues and business issues as of now having said that michael is a well-known colleague we've worked together in the past when he was with porsche Great collaboration, a great guy. And he knows Porsche very well. He knows our strategy. He's from the automotive business. So, of course, every time a new CEO joins a company, there will be a programmatic approach to that. But from today's perspective, it would be early to expect more one-off expenses. From my personal perspective, I think the major decisions have been made and are suitable and great decisions for the company. Second question was on China. The baseline for the luxury tax has been lower to 900,000 renminbi, which affects our portfolio or some part of our portfolio. We have not seen pre-buying effects because that new legislation was launched within 48 hours. So no customer had a chance to really run much into pre-buying. So that effect was close to zero, I would say. after the effect we have conserved prices and protected prices for the existing customers so demand was on the level that we have seen and looking forward the increase of the luxury tax or the lowering of the baseline for the for the level when the luxury tax kicks in is something that we will monitor. We have looked at our portfolio and we will come up with strategic decisions on how we can position the one or the other derivative to be in a more competitive situation.

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Jochen. So next in the row will be Steven of Bernstein and he will be followed by Anthony of Odoo BHF.

Good afternoon. My question is about the U.S. I asked on the last about your the repeal of the IRA, which in the lease credit on your BEVs. Can you comment on what's been happening since then, in particular, the pricing and how you're pricing the leases of the McCann Electric and also the Taycan? which I noticed were some of the better performers in the third quarter, at least at the retail level, judging by some of the data that we can see here.

Yeah, you're referring to the $7,500 tax credits the electric cars were eligible to if they're not bought as cash buying on lease contracts. And of course, the deduction of that effect leads to higher lease rates on a monthly basis. And therefore, our products are getting more expensive than they have been. And we see some minor effects on the demand side, but the effect is significantly lower than you might have expected that it could be given that 7.5% 1,000 US dollars is a rather big number. But as of now, we are quite happy with how the demands are developed, also at the higher monthly payments that we have to communicate with our Porsche Financial Services offers we have.

Thank you. And the second question, could you remind us as well what the timeline is for the ending of production of the McCann ICE and also for the Cayman and the Boxster, please? ICE versions.

Yeah.

We still offer the ICE Macan in the regions out of Europe, out of the European Union. We will produce the car well into 2026 and that car will be on offer throughout 2026 and in some markets even in 2027 based on a final stocking that we will do. Exact EOP end of production date still to be decided and planned in the exact planning, but it will be more or less in the middle of 2026. But as I've said, customers will get their cars also throughout 2026 and some even in 2027. On the Boxster and the Cayman, the end of production is here to come. That will be in October. So we are producing the very last cars these days. And then it's the same situation as with the first Macan, the Ice Macan, that customers will receive their products throughout the next month.

Thank you very much.

Very good. So next then will be Anthony. And after Anthony, we have Michael. And please note in about five minutes, then we move over to the press.

Yes. Hi, thanks for taking the question. The first one is on just the general kind of margin environment for 2026. So it seems like there's quite a few tailwinds for you, of course, outside of the non-recurring charges you had in 2025, but you might also be having lower tariff impacts based on that kind of 150 million euro run rate and also some positive pricing and likely mix also. So I was just wondering what might be preventing you from reaching that double digit margin in terms of what headwinds should we take into account for 2026? And then the second one is just a follow up also on the free cash flow. So you mentioned 1.2 billion euros of cash out this year for the restructuring and the tariffs. Could you actually maybe break that down between the restructuring and the tariffs and also what remains in 2026 in terms of what cash out remains on the restructuring and what kind of reimbursements should we expect for the tariffs? Thank you.

Yeah, a couple of questions. Let me answer it. So first, a question on why do we not expect double-digit return on sales performance in 2026 given the quite robust performance that we've seen if you do the reconciliation with all the one-off effects from 2025? In 2026, based on the substantial improvement that we will expect, we also have some headwinds that we have to take into account. First one is product offering. I've just commented on the ICE Macan and also on the run out of the 982, so the Boxster Cayman car. which will have last sales based on the production that we had so far. But from a portfolio perspective, we have additional additional issues where we do not have supply. Second is we do not expect China to recover. So given the trend in China and also in some other markets, our assumption is that our sales unit sales will be lower in 2026 than expected for 2025. Also, from an FX perspective, as I've said, 2025 almost fully hedged. Also in the years to come, we have quite high and substantial hedging ratios, but there are some open positions and also in 2026, First effects will occur where our FX situation is a little bit weaker than it has been in 2025. And given these effects, we see a huge improvement, really a relevant one single digit performance in return on sales. But it will take a bit more time to come back to the two digit performance. Net cash flow. um for um q3 so in year to date q3 outflows were about almost 900 million euros um when it comes to To US tariffs, that's a bit more than 500 million euros. And then we had additional spendings on the strategic activities and organizational realignment activities that gives you the number of almost 900 million of special effects on the cash side for the one-offs and US tariffs.

Very good for 26 remaining in terms of disbursements related to the realignment and reimbursements related to the tariffs.

But for 2026, we will have, from our perspective and based on our assumptions, a stable tariff situation of 15% import tariffs to the United States. So we will see that in the full year compared to 2.5% in the first quarter, 27.5% until July, and then 15% from August through December. The average for these differing quarters in this year, for the next year, you will have a similar number that we expect for the next year. So tariffs, stable situation, 15%, more or less a burden as we have it in this year. And for the strategic realignment, the one-off expenses will be, the really biggest part will be posted in 2025. So we do not expect material effects in 2026. Thank you.

very good so next then will be michael and then we will hand over to our colleagues of the media and if we would have time at the end of this call we will see if we can squeeze in the one or the other question mike yeah thanks a couple of quick ones if i can um

Just in regards to China, the work you're doing in China, can you talk about the cost of that? So shrinking from 150 dealers to 100 now to 80, what have you had to pay the dealers to have them walk away from the contracts that you've got with them? That's the first question. So China compensation, if you like. And then the second question is just around the tariff piece. If I remember rightly, you built inventory in the US on your own books in the first half. Is that the reason why the tariff in the first half looks really high versus what looks to be a very low tariff in Q3, that you were actually burning off that inventory in Q3, which meant the actual tariff impact was smaller? Thanks.

Yeah, thanks for the questions on China and the restructuring work that we are doing in the dealer body from 150 to initially 100. And now we're targeting 80 dealers to set up a dealer network that is robust and financially viable and profitable. That's an activity that we are doing in really good cooperation and good talks together with our dealers because they have the same interest in coming up with a business model that works profitably in the Chinese markets as opposed to what we've seen during the last couple of months or years. That comes with a cost, that's clear, but these costs are not substantial compared to the other effects that we have communicated in terms of strategic realignment and restructuring of the company. If they would have been, we would have incorporated that into our communication. I'm not in a position to give you an exact number since we're also in negotiation position with our dealers. But as I've said, very constructive talks, joint interest in adopting the and joint target in adopting the dealer network, the dealer body. And that's something that we can digest in our profitability in the current year and also in the next year when these actions will happen. On tariffs, of course, the cars imported by the end of Q2 had the 27.5%. We had to pay based on the import date that we have. And once you release these cars, of course, the tariffs are posted to the cost of goods sold when we reduce the working capital. So you have some effect there. But I think you should look at the tariff situation as I commented on it on a yearly basis for the full year, 0.7 billion, and that's also a good estimate for the year to come based on that 15% throughout the year.

Before we hand over, may I only clarify one thing? When Jochen talked about lower unit sales next year, we are talking about unit sales to the degree of car sales, wholesales. This is no revenue guidance. This will all come next year because I already got first questions if this is a revenue guidance. This is no revenue guidance.

Thanks, Bjorn.

Okay, colleagues, then we make a short break and then we're right back with the Q&A for the media. Thanks.

Ladies and gentlemen, We will now have a short break before beginning the Q&A for the media. Please hold the line. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session for the media. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone. You will hear a tone to confirm that you have entered the queue. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Please press the star key followed by zero for operator assistance in any case of technical difficulties. Participants are requested to use only handsets while asking a question. Please ensure that all other devices with which you may be watching the video stream in parallel are completely muted to avoid interference. In the interest of time, please limit yourself to one or two questions. As mentioned, anyone who has a question may press star and one at this time. With that, I hand again over to Dr. Sebastian Rudolph. Please go ahead.

Yeah, thank you very much, and welcome back, colleagues, to the Q&A session for the media. We have limited time. It would be great if you limit your questions to one, if possible. And with this, I would say we start with the Financial Times, and Sebastian Esch, just unmute your mic, and the floor is yours.

Hi, can you hear me?

Yes, we can.

Good. I wanted to ask with respect to the US tariff tariff resolution last week, which was bought somewhat of a tailwind for US carmakers. How do you feel this impacts your position and the position of European carmakers relative to other manufacturers with a manufacturing presence in North America?

Sebastian, thanks for the question. If we got you rightly, you're asking about the US tariffs and changes that you were referring to. So commenting on that one, I'm not aware of any relevant changes, as I've just communicated in the other call. We are planning our assumptions on 15% as persisting and remaining tariffs for cars to be imported. I know that there are some political decisions on the truck business, where trucks might be affected, but that's not relevant for us as passenger car manufacturers. So again, we are paying 15% since August 1st, and that's our assumption for the end of this year and also for the next year.

The next question goes to Rachel Moore of Reuters. Please, Rachel.

Hi, good evening. Can you hear me?

Yes, we can.

I wanted to ask if there is an update on the measures that will be required as part of the restructuring. You have the second package of measures currently under negotiation. Can we expect more job cuts? And what's the timeline on that?

yeah rachel we've started the negotiation on the second package we call it the future package because that's a package that will really improve the competitiveness of our business model and our sites in germany we do that internally the discussions and negotiations with our workers council so we are not in a position yet to communicate anything detailed because it's not agreed and we not I do not want to discuss this in public. We do that on ice level with the partners from the Works Council. But what I can say is that we are targeting significant measures. And you were talking about job positions. On that one, I would like to comment that a major part of the future package is not about job positions, but rather on salary levels and additional perks and compensation elements that we have in our current baseline.

Question goes to Stefan Wilmert, Wall Street Journal. Stefan, please.

Question. I just wanted to ask, can you give us any, beyond the second package that you just talked about, what are you doing internally to reflect the strategic realignment that you've provided for in your financial results? Can you give us any kind of indication of what what is going on internally in terms of kind of teams being allocated to hybrids or other kind of projects that reflects the strategic realignment. Thank you.

Yeah, I mean, when it comes to our R&D work and our product portfolio work, we have a multi-project planning approach and we're staffing the projects along our cycle plan and strategy as the projects come along and needs to be developed. And based on the later decisions that we said we would push out the new electric platform and the car projects, the heads, as we call them, that were planned to be on that platform. Of course, we've updated our multi-project planning approach and have have redistributed if i may say so um our colleagues and experts in r d but also in other areas of the company from that platform and that car projects into the the other ones that we will develop to put our portfolio in a more flexible position starting as of 28. so that's um a bit of a process of change. But it's nothing special in general. We do that regularly because projects come, projects go, projects are finalized. So engineers and all the other colleagues and experts need to be allocated to various tasks. And with the latest decisions, it has been a little bit bigger task to execute it. But in general, that's a daily business. And we are executing that. Yeah, in a very stringent way. And colleagues are already working on the new cars on the ICE and plug-in hybrid drive trains that we communicated. And maybe if I may add one thing, this has nothing to do with the second package. So this is, as I said, a daily work reallocating experts, engineers, resources. The second package, the future package we're talking about is more about structural changes.

We have one more question on our list. That's why I repeat, if you want to ask a question, press star one, and then you appear here on our pad. So with this, Monika Blumberg, the floor is yours.

Yes. Hello. Thank you. Can you hear me all right?

Yes. Yes, we can.

Wonderful. We've heard quite a bit from Mr. Blume already in previous calls about Porsche's intention to expand the exclusive manufacturer program. and that individualization and sort of higher margin vehicles will play an important role in Porsche's future strategy. I was wondering if we could hear a bit more color or details on what structural changes or concrete measures are being taken to expand that program and what would need to be offset for that expansion, specifically in Sliffenhausen, physically, if facilities need to be expanded, if more people need to be onboarded, et cetera. Thank you.

Yeah, Monika, thanks for that question. The exclusive and Sonderwunsch manufacturer, as we call it, business is really key to our strategy, is one key pillar for the brand, but also in that part of the business for highly profitable margins. We will expand that business as communicated earlier, and we will do that step by step. in a very cautious way because in that area of our business model, it's really key that we keep scarcity and keep it as a luxury part of the business. So this is a step-by-step approach. Year by year, we've already increased significantly the capacity and also the output in that area throughout the last years and over the next two, three, five years until the end of this decade, substantial increases in terms of output will be organized in our operational model. This will come with additional capacity in that area of our business model, but we are not planning for substantial additional hires to organize that one. That is something where we, as I just said in the answer to the other question, our multi-project planning, given the staff and the workforce we have, we will organize the increase in capacity in the Sonderbund and exclusive manufacturer areas. When it comes to assets, buildings, machinery, etc., again, our plan in Zuffenhausen is big enough to implement the increases in the Sondermunsch exclusive manufacturer, so there are no significant capex expenditures planned to organize that part of the business on the growth path that we've entered.

Thank you.

I would take two last questions. The first goes to Stuttgarter Zeitung, then we finish with Dow Jones. So Matthias Schmidt, you go first. Stuttgarter Zeitung, please.

Thank you. Hello and good evening. Just one short question. Is the new CEO already involved in the negotiations on the second package?

I just repeat, because it was acoustically hard to, is the upcoming CEO already involved in the negotiations? We're talking about the Strukturpaket, Zukunftspaket.

Yeah, no, he's not. Michael Leitos will join the company on January 1st. He's not with the company yet. Decisions have been made that he will join the company. We're looking forward to welcoming Ed Porsche and working together with him. But given the competitive situation with also the other company that he used to work for, we are not in discussions and in any direct work with him yet. We will start that as of January 1st. And given the fact that he's been with Porsche for quite some years, and then afterwards, he's a highly respected expert in the automotive industry, we really expect to have a fast start and a kickstart in January 2026. But no actions so far.

Thank you.

Then we have the last question for today. Markus Clausen, Dow Jones, please.

Yeah, hi, many thanks for the possibility. One question regarding the analyst call. You said, Mr. Breckner, to be 100% sure that next year Porsche will reach a high single-digit return, and then the year ahead, 2027, a double-digit return is possible. And is it reasonable to assume that Porsche will once again achieve a return of 80% at some point in the future, or is it no longer within reach? Thanks.

Yeah. So first, let me confirm that we are expecting a high single-digit return on sales next year. That's correct. Second, we've communicated that our ambition is a 10% to 15% profitability margin and range in the midterm. And whether the midterm starts in 2027 or maybe a bit later, that's something that we still have to see. That's two years from now. So we do not give exact guidance on that one. Can't comment on 2027 more precisely, but I think the most important information is high one single digit margin in 2026, not double digit. And then we take it from there. And as of 2028, the positive effects from our strategic realignment will start to kick in.

Okay, thanks. And 18% is within reach in some point in the future or is it no longer reachable?

Yeah, I mean, I just said that we communicated that our ambition is to have a return on sales in the midterm between 10% to 15%. That's the way to go. We have taken the decisions to get there, and higher margins would have been even higher than the 10% to 15%. So from today's perspective, I would not confirm a target of 18%. That's why we communicated a range of 10% to 15%.

Okay, many thanks.

Welcome.

And as a surprising factor, Jose, you had been quite tenacious and patient and waited on the queue right to the end. This is a sports car company that is incentivizing this passion. So therefore, last in the row is Jose of JP Morgan.

Jose, great to hear you. Looking forward to your question.

Thank you so much. And thank you very much for the opportunity. And apologies for coming the last one here. Thank you very much. Simple question, please. As we think about the next six months, 12 months, medium term, but maybe more like into 26, I'm sure you're launching new vehicles, right? So which vehicles do you think will drive the momentum in 26? When do you expect Cayenne Electric to start helping a bit the P&L and that sales momentum? Thank you.

From a model availability perspective, Jose, I've already commented on the fact that the 982, the Boxster Cayman, is in the run-out phase. Also, the H1 ICE car is still available in some markets outside of the European Union in 2026, but that car is also starting its run-out phase, but that will take a bit longer than with the Boxster and Cayman. a positive momentum we can expect from the completely newly developed full electric cayenne what we call internally the cayenne e4 that car is about to be launched in 2026 and that's in addition to the existing cayenne lineup so we expect that we will gain some market share in the cayenne segment then given the fact that we have then ice plug-in hybrids and also electric cars on top of that we've just launched the Very important derivative, the icon in the icon model line. I'm talking about the 911 Turbo S in the 911 model line in the Munich Auto Fair. And that car will be available by the end of this year and therefore will give us tailwinds, especially when it comes to margin and also brand and company positioning in 2026. And given all these effects, maybe also combined with the weaker demand in China that we expect, will put us in a position to reach the one-digit profitability margin I've just talked about. And yeah, that's how we look at 2026 from portfolio and also sales unit perspective.

And with this, I say, or both of us say, thank you to Jochen. And for myself, I say thank you to Björn as well. And for you, colleagues from the media and also analysts and investors for the joint call, have a good weekend and see you. Bye-bye.

Thank you everyone for joining. Thanks for your questions. Talk soon.

Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now concluded and you may disconnect. Thank you for joining and have a pleasant day. Goodbye.