Bang & Olufsen a/s

Hello everyone and welcome to this interim report for the third quarter 2023-24. For the first part of this call, all participants will be in a listen-only mode. Afterwards, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question, please press 5-star on your telephone keypad. This call is being recorded. I will now hand the call over to CEO Christian Theer.

Hello everyone and thank you for joining the call. With me today as always is our CFO Nikolaj Wendelbo. Together we will go through the numbers and highlights from our Q3 interim report and we will give an update on how we are progressing with our strategic transition. After our presentation we will open up for questions. Please move to slide four. We are pleased to once again deliver profit and a record high gross margin for the quarter. This is an outcome of our strategic focus to improve the customer experience in our branded channels, strengthen our luxury positioning and to ensure product excellence across our portfolio. The continuous improvement of our gross margin is also enabling our shift away from non-luxury multi-brand doors towards branded channels, closing more than 2,000 multi-brand doors in the last 12 months. This is important because with our branded channels, we can give our customers the full B&O experience, ensure better price stability and strengthen the brand equity. The prioritization of higher quality revenue is deliberate. However, this strategic transition will take time, but it will help us to build a more resilient business and create profitable growth for Bang & Olufsen in the long term. During the quarter, we saw lower demand in some of our key markets. On a group level, sell-out was down 2%. This was primarily due to Europe, where we saw a decline of 13%. In APAC, we had strong sell-out growth of 23%. However, this was against a low comparable from last year. The macroeconomic conditions in China and in some markets in Europe mean that our revenue performance will be lower than expected. Like other luxury companies, we do not expect significant improvement in the Chinese economy in the near future. Consequently, we adjusted our revenue outlook on March 17th. We kept our guidance for EBIT and free cash flow. However, we narrowed the range for both. Please turn to the next slide. We delivered a revenue of 614 million in the quarter. This corresponds to a decrease of 3% compared to Q3 of last year. If we look at our product revenue, this was flat in local currencies. Our gross margin increased to 53.2%. This is a 10 percentage point increase compared to last year. This is attributed to a normalization of component and logistic costs, as well as our strategic transition, where we have strong pricing focus and a positive change in both channel and product mix. In quarter three, EBIT before special items was 11 million. This is an improvement of 54 million compared to Q3 of last year and an increase of 8.6 percentage point. The free cash flow was positive, accounting to 5 million for the quarter. This progress enabled us to deliver the best nine-month EBIT result in half a decade. Please turn to the next slide. If you turn to our luxury timeless technology strategy, we are making progress with implementation. Over the past year, we have seen a significant brand awareness boost from our marketing activities, particularly from our partnership with Scuderia Ferrari. In Q3, we were therefore pleased to extend that agreement by another two years. It remains a key priority for us to increase the visibility of the Bang & Olufsen brand and build stronger relationships with our customers as this increases the likelihood of conversion and recommendation of our brand. The Ferrari partnership is helping us to achieve just that. If we look at our customer data, we onboarded 5% new customers and grew number of customers owning two or more products by 5%. At the end of October, we launched the Beolab 8. This versatile speaker gained strong traction in quarter three and sales performance was in line with expectations. Beolab 8 supplements the existing portfolio very well and will enable us to drive even more attachment sales across the portfolio. During the quarter, we also made improvements to our product platforms and our app, enhancing the overall customer experience significantly. As mentioned, we are doubling down on our branded channels as we believe this will be key to our growth ambition in the long term. In Q3, we made structural changes in our channel network and setup to improve the retail experience. We opened a flagship store in London in December. We relocated our Copenhagen airport store and upgraded it based on our new store concept. and we continue to work with our monobrand partners to enhance the experience across the network through refurbishments, training and events. Furthermore, we continued implementing our Wind City concept in London, Paris and New York. In addition to opening our flagship store in London, we introduced a pop-up store in Paris. In London, sell-out was down 11%. However, our two stores at Harrods and Selfridges delivered good performance. The decline in sell-out was mainly due to the limited end-of-life inventory in Bister Village, which is our store in this outlet village. In Paris, sell-out declined by 32%. This was expected as we began our transition in the city to ensure that we build a more sustainable setup for the future. We have now changed our organization and we're working closer with our retail partner in Paris to improve the store experience and our joint activations. In New York, sell-out grew by 2%. We continue to drive activations out of our Soho store, which caters to local design and music lovers, and our Madison store, which opened in November, is off to a good start. In January, we also announced an exclusive partnership with Waldorf Astoria Residences, and aim to offer their customers a luxury experience with the historic framework of the hotel. Future residents of the new 375 luxury condominiums can purchase their home fully furnished as part of an existing turnkey furniture program, which will also include a full suite of audiovisual products from Bang & Olufsen. And with that, I would like to hand over to you, Nicolai.

Thank you, Christian. Now, please turn to page number eight. We're looking at sellout first here. Sellout in the Q3 declined by 2% compared to the same period last year. This is primarily reflecting softer demand in Europe, but what is also reflected in the numbers is the fact that we made some end-of-life deals last year to reduce our inventory levels, and if we exclude these end-of-life products, sell-out actually grew no single digit on group level compared to Q3 of last year. Across regions, flexible living grew by 12%, on-the-go grew by 2% and the stage category declined by 10%. In general, we don't see like-for-like sellers being impacted negatively by price increases. Like-for-like sell-out in EMEA decreased by 13% year-on-year. Except for e-commerce, the decline was reported across channels and categories and mainly driven by monobank stores, reflecting the weak consumer sentiment in Europe. Sell-out in the Americas fell by 7%. Company-owned stores grew during the period with monobrand and e-commerce declining. Monobrand declined due to poor performance in a single material geographic market and a change of setup in this area has been initiated. Excluding this market, monobrand reported growth compared to Q3 of last year. Multibrand declined significantly due to the discontinuing of a number of stores in that channel. Like-for-like sellout in APAC grew by 23%, driven by seller growth in China of 36%, though coming from a low level last year due to the change in the country's COVID-19 policy in December 2022. Seller growth in the region was reported across all product categories. Please move to the next slide where we will take a look at revenue. Revenue for the quarter was 614 million and declined 3% in local currencies compared to Q3 of last year. Product revenue decreased by 1.6 percentage points and was flat year-on-year in local currencies. This was lower than expected and I will go more into details on product revenue in the next slide. In terms of channels, the development was driven by reported low single-digit growth in branded channels offset by a decline in multi-branded channels. Our brand partnering and other activities declined by 16.3% against last year, corresponding to a 17% decline in local currencies. This was mainly driven by reduced license income from the automotive industry as the industry slowly recovered from factory strikes in the US. Also, license income from HP declined as expected. Now turn to the next page. In EMEA revenue declined by 12.2% or 12% in local currencies to 293 million due to softer demand in Europe. Looking at the first 9 months of 23-24, revenue from branded channels combined increased 4%. We continued to optimize the channel network and the number of monobrand stores were reduced by 18 year on year. Revenue for multi-brand and e-tail decreased significantly. The number of multi-brand stores in EMEA was reduced by 131 since last year, and we have limited the assortment available on e-tail platforms and in the multi-brand channel. In Americas, reported revenue was 70 million, a decline of 4% in reported revenue, or growth of 1% in local currencies. The ramp-up of our collaboration with Genesis reported strong performance and revenue in the enterprise channel had significant double-digit growth in the year. Performance by the company-owned stores was largely on par and Monobrand had a small decline. Revenue from the ETL channel was reduced significantly while Multibrand was on par at a low level year-on-year. This continuing the partnership with T-Mobile and Verizon consequently reduced the channel by 2,214 stores over the past 12 months. Revenue in APAC was 180 million, corresponding to a 24.1% increase of 27% in local currencies. Revenue from China increased 33% or 45% in local currencies and accounted for around 47% of total APAC revenue. Revenue from our Monobank channel increased double-digit. The ETL channel increased significantly due to low comparisons in Q3 last year, and multi-brand reported modest growth. For the Stage category, revenue increased by 2% to 285 million. Biolab Speakers was reporting a strong performance, driven by the launch of Biolab 8 in October, and overall the category increased despite the strong performance last year of Biothem Theatre. For the flexible living category, revenue declined by 2% to 105 million. This was partly offset by a strong performance of Beosound A5 launched in April last year, as well as higher average selling prices. For the on-the-go category, revenue declined by 5% to 153 million. This development was mainly driven by a few end-of-life deals made on headphones and earphones last year, and also the optimization of the multi-brand channel affected this category negatively for the quarter. Overall, our categories were positively impacted by improved average selling prices. Now please turn to the next page. So our gross margin increased by 9.6 percentage points to 53.2%. In Q3 of last year, extraordinary supply chain costs adversely impacted the margin by approximately 5 percentage points, but also in line with our strategy, we improved our gross margin by a change in product and channel mix, as well as price increase that we implemented in last year. In addition, the gross margin in the on-the-go category was impacted by a few larger deals on headphones and earphones to reduce end-of-life inventories. So the strong gross margin, compared with our focus on maintaining a lean cost base, also contributed to continued improving our EBITDA. Year-to-date, we delivered an EBITDA of 221 million compared to 35 million last year. The EBIT margin before special items was 1.8%, an increase of 8.6 percentage points from Q3 of last year. We are pleased to also report a positive EBIT for the fourth quarter in a row. Now please turn to the next page. Total capacity costs were 318 million and 5% below Q3 of last year as we continue to maintain a lean cost base. Development costs were 72 million against 86 million last year. It was driven by lower incurred costs and higher capitalizations compared to last year. Distribution and marketing costs were 217 million and largely on par with last year, and the admin expenses decreased by 4 million to 29 million, mainly driven by lower advisory costs. Special items for 3 million against 15 million last year. This year's special items were related to a reorg in our marketing area, while last year's level was due to a general restructuring in line with our focus on a lean cost base. Now please turn to the next page. Net working capital increased by 11 million during the quarter to 297 million. Net working capital to the last 12 months revenue was 11.5% and largely in line with previous quarters. Inventories increased by 9 million during the quarter as a consequence of the lowered unexpected sales. We continue our focus on inventory management and since year end we have reduced our inventory by 30 million. Trade receivables decreased by 45 million to 320 million. The decrease was driven by lower sales in Q3 compared to Q2. Sales with extended credit remains at a very low level. Trade payables decreased by 27 million to 424 million mainly related to timing of our supply. Please turn to the next page. Free cash flow was positive 5 million against 33 million last year. Development since last year was driven by reduced cash flow from operating activities related to net working capital, where we saw a large net working capital reduction last year. Capital expenditures were 48 million, which was an increase of 4 million compared to last year, driven by the increase in tangible investments, which was related to our new flagship store in London. Overall investments were primarily with intangible assets and related to new products and platforms. Capital resources consisting of available liquidity and available drawing right on our revolving credit facilities stood at 318 million, down 5 million from Q2. Our available liquidity was 158 million at the end of the quarter, consisting of cash and securities offset by repo transactions. And with that, I would like to hand the word back to Christian.

Thank you, Nicolai. Please turn to page 16. As mentioned, we adjusted our revenue outlook for the financial year in March. In Q3, sales were impacted by the slower than expected improvements of macroeconomic conditions in our key markets in Europe. Also, we do not expect a significant recovery of the Chinese economy to materialize in 2023-2024 as anticipated. Consequently, revenue growth in local currencies for the financial year 2023-2024 is now expected to be between minus eight and minus five percent from the previously in the lower end of zero to nine percent. As part of our strategic transition, we are deliberately moving out of non-luxury multi-brand doors and focusing more on our branded channels. This transition will take time, but we believe this will be key to sustainable growth for the company in the future. The range for EBIT before special items was narrowed to 0 to 2 percent. Lastly, the range for free cash flow was narrowed to minus 50 million to plus 10 million. So despite lower than expected revenue performance, we're expecting positive earnings. This is supported by our strong gross margin, which we expect to continue to be above 50 percent for the remainder of the year. Please turn to the next page. So let me briefly recap our Q3 performance. We are pleased that we continue to deliver profit and improved our gross margin. This is an outcome of our luxury timeless technology strategy implementation, and this helps us to build a more robust company that can grow sustainably in the future. We're also pleased that we continue to grow our customer base and that we saw a higher number of repeat purchases. This is a reflection of our efforts to improve the overall customer experience across the touchpoints and products. We did not see the macroeconomic improvements in our key markets in Europe in Q3, and we do not expect the Chinese economy to recover in the near future as previously expected. This means that we adjust our revenue outlook for the year. We are progressing with the implementation of our strategy. A renewed agreement with Ferrari will help increase brand awareness and our focus on improving the retail experience in our branded channels and our Wind City stores will improve conversion and growth. We are focused on becoming more agile and focused so we ensure faster execution of our strategy. Given the market environment, we continue to be prudent with our investments and cost levels. We are confident that we're on the right path with our luxury timeless technology strategy. Our earnings level, even at the lower level than expected revenue, underline that we're becoming more resilient as a company. And with that, I would like to open up for questions.

Thank you. We'll now start the Q&A session. To ask a question for the speakers, please press five star on your telephone keypad.

We'll have a brief pause while questions are being registered.

And the first question will be from Paul Jessen from Danske Bank. Please go ahead. Your line will now be unmuted.

Thank you for taking my questions and hello, both of you. First question is coming back to your final comments where you talked about that you're generally pleased. I was just wondering, if you take all the developments you're doing and the changes and so on, are you generally pleased with what you see from an internal point of view and then you leave the difficulties being the external environment where you're sitting and waiting to finally get to the table? That's the first question.

Thank you, Paul. I think we can divide it up in three buckets. You have macroeconomical challenges that we already explained. Then we have the consequences of implementing the strategy. And then obviously as well, we have a lot of work that is going internally that are in our plans and that we necessarily don't share externally. I think we have done a lot of good changes and we have had a lot of good work in product, in marketing, in R&D and in most areas of the company. We know where we are going, we have a clear destination and what we want to do is obviously speed that work up and get there faster. That is our challenge and we want to do more faster basically. So it's not so that we do not have internal issues at all. On the contrary, we are trying to change a lot of things in the company and we have changed a lot of things in the company already as well and more changes. or underway because we are transitioning and we will keep on transitioning for for another period of time so we just want to make it faster since we know where we're going now and that will be the focus going forward for for next year and follow up on that one destination is said and you want to speed it up

is that then actually possible i'm just thinking about your financial resources or you have to focus on having both the cash flow positive and and the earnings potentially improving so can you speed it up before the market turns giving you a more top line and then you can start reinvesting that extra revenue so what's the limits here

yeah so obviously there are capital constraints that we need to to adjust the speed to but there's also a lot of things that are not capital constrained that we can do and for instance we have an amazing atelier offering right now that has not really reached out to the market and where we want to start promoting that harder and that is definitely doable within the the capital available to us we have the retail execution that we're working hard on as well under the leadership of our new global head of retail where training store staff organization etc policies and guidelines is having an impact we know that and and we can also do that without having to be bootstrapped in any sense from a from a cost point of view. So there's quite a few things that we know that we can do that is not related to capital. Then there are a few things that are related to capital, which is building flagship stores and etc. So on this note, we still have to adhere to what liquidity we have available, what money we have available. But there's also other ways of doing that by partnering up and teaming up with others so in this sense as well we're trying to be more creative and come up with alternative solutions than just looking at what is available for us in terms of money okay and then to follow up on the transition one is that you have raised prices again recently in the more expensive states products primary one

Can you give an indication on what you see as the average price increase? And secondly, do you see a limit on, for instance, the Deolab 90 now in BKK is trading at about 1 million per pair? That's one question. The second is the split between branded and multi-branded stores. As multi-branded is coming down, can you give an indication of the split between those two on how much we still have to adjust the multi-branded part of revenue before it stabilizes?

So I'll start and then on the details, I'll pass on to Nikolaj. When we do price increases, we obviously do them with a lot of analytics work and insight work before we move on. So it's not like something that we sit and decide. that we increase it. We're also looking at on the product level on how we can increase the whole customer experience when we talk about pricing and when we talk about the longevity of the product or the serviceability of the product or the upgradability of the product. or what comes with the product. And to your point on Biolab 90s, they have increased significantly. But when we look at that market, they are actually still very cheap relative to everything else that is out there in that category. This is something that we will continue to do, continue to raise the prices. How we do it and with what is going to be included as a richer experience is obviously being evaluated each and every time. And I'll answer the other one as well, and then I'll pass on to Nikolaj to comment on both of them. On the multibrand channel... Sorry, go ahead, Paul.

Just to follow up, you have more or less over a few years increased, for instance, this B90 by 90% or something. How is the volumes performing in that process?

Biolab 90 has gone up in, if you take Danish crooners, from 70,000 euros to 145,000 euros. And we are actually selling more Biolab 90s today than we did for 70,000. It doesn't seem to be a hinder to keep on growing the product categories. We have, of course, other products as well that are showing a similar trend, but it's not given that that is true for all the products. So again, we need to be mindful of all the parameters affecting it. And we are. On the second question on multibrand, I think we're going to be present in multibrand for quite some time. So we're not going to exit multibrand. What we want to make sure is that we have a good customer experience and a good product experience and that our values and products can be explained in the proper way in multibrand. And some channels are better than others in doing that. And those are the ones that we want to work with. Then there are channels where customers typically go and buy and we want to be present in those channels because if we exit them it's a probability that our brand will not be found by those customers. So we're doing this with caution and obviously we don't want to exit more than we at the same time can grow our branded channels revenue. And sometimes we get that right, sometimes we get that wrong when we look at individual month. But the aim is of course to slowly navigate through that so that we have a balance between what we exit and what we manage to grow in the branded channels. That's the strategy. And some of them will be there for quite some time. Then I think there's also opportunities to execute better in the multi-brand channel. And that's what something we're looking into as well together with our head of global retail. on how we can provide a real B&O experience, even though you're buying it in a multi-brand channel and the limited assortment that's going to be available there. So I think even with lesser multi-brands, we have a growth opportunity also with multi-brand, but we are going to exit a number, physical number of them. And so that's as precise as I can be. So maybe over to Nicolai to take more details on the pricing.

Yeah, so especially on maybe start with the multi-brand part and some data points. Multi-brand year to date is around 5% of our revenue. Multi-brand retail combined is around 15% of our revenue. I think on multi-brand, When you look at the US, I think we are at the low level now because we exited so much multi-brand in the US, there's not a lot more to exit. So when we find the right multi-brand partners in luxury lifestyle setting, it might go up, but it's something we're pursuing more on an ad hoc basis when the right opportunities present itself. In APAC, we did a bigger cleanup in multi-brand, especially in China during COVID. So that's also why we are seeing multi-brand actually in Q3 being up a little bit in APAC because it came from a low level. So I think it's in EMEA we will see further adjustments. And I think total multi-brand percent of revenue will not increase in the company going forward. It will decrease probably a little bit. But we are pretty low on multi-brand now compared to last year.

What was the difference between the 5% and 15%?

Can you repeat that one, Paul?

Yeah. I think you mentioned 5% and then you said 15%.

Yeah, so 5% on multi-brand and 15% on multi-brand and e-tail.

Okay.

On the prices, a good way to measure price increases is not just to look at the RCP, but it's of course to look at the average selling prices that we have. Are we actually managing to get more for our products when you look also at channel mix and that kind of stuff? I mean, when you take the high price products, the big TVs, the expensive speakers, etc. Compared to last year, our average selling prices are up more than 20% in many of these products. So I think we have proven that we are capable of improving our profitability, especially on the expensive products and continuing to see stable demand. Of course, units are down in EMEA specifically, but that's really due to macroeconomic and consumer sentiment in Europe. That's the way we see it.

Okay, thank you. I'll step back and see if there are others who have questions.

Thank you, Paul. As a reminder, if you have a question for the speakers, please press five star on your telephone keypad. The next question will be from Neil Slett. Please go ahead. Your line will now be unmuted.

Good morning and thank you for taking my questions. First question on your one city strategy as regards to Paris. Do you need a restart of the process in Paris given the recent development? Secondly, would you expect a an effect from revenue to the Waldorf Astoria project in New York for next year, so more like a one-time selling effect next year. And thirdly, could you talk about your considerations and work to find a replacement for the HP license income? Thank you.

Thank you, Nils. If you take Paris, our own stores in Paris are doing well. We have a partner who has two stores in Paris that has been struggling with illness and etc. for quite some time. We have found a new way of working with him and are helping him and putting more resource into that. We already see improvements in Paris based on that. We're also putting in a new country manager who is coming from the luxury world as well, who will help us to further build on that. But it is a one-off event with our partner who has two stores that is causing the negative effect for us. But it's already recovering. Then when it comes to Waldorf, It will take some time before we see that revenue, but I think it's very positive that we are part of their standard offering. As you can see, there's quite some rooms that will, of course, give us revenue, but also give us a good brand exposure for the residents that are moving in. As many of them also have multiple homes, we believe that it's not only a good revenue source, but it's also a good marketing platform for us. On the HP we are working with different partners in the funnel and we have a lot of good opportunities in that respect and we have also I think a little bit broader opportunity now than we had while we had HP on board but we cannot announce anything before we announce it but of course brand partnering and

and the replacement of hp revenue is something that is on top of our mind okay great thank you thank you nils as a reminder if you have a question for the speakers please press five star on your telephone keypad we'll have a brief pause while questions have been registered And our next question is a follow-up from Paul Jessen from Danske Bank. Please go ahead, John. I will now be unmuted.

Thank you. I have a few follow-ups. If we start by HP, those sales you see there right now, is that HP beginning to scale down already, or is it simply a consequence of poor markets for laptops, and then it could come back before you exit it?

I'll let Nicolai answer the question for Q3. Obviously it will scale down over time, that's the nature of it, but it's not going to stop abruptly either. There is not indications we have because obviously we are in many models and as they phase models out and phase new models in, that's how it goes. So it's going to be a gradual shift. We don't expect it to be an abrupt shift. in quarter three versus quarter three. I don't know if you have, and we'll share details on that, but it's not anything major at this point in time.

So we had expected a decline on HP in the quarter. It's not the biggest surprise. So they are still struggling on selling enough units in general due to the economic situation. But of course, they are also gradually shifting us out of the lineup, but that takes time. So we can't rule out that some of the decline is due to that, but we don't know for sure actually, because we don't get that detailed information on the numbers from HP. But of course, there will be a decline in HP next year compared to this year, that's for sure. It will not be a one-to-one 100% decline, but there will be, of course, a decline next year that I think we also talked about last time that we feel we can manage. But it will, of course, be something that we will be able to see in the numbers.

Okay, thanks. Then on the Americas, the regional problem you had, can you put a little more on how you are solving it? how much or what is the growth in the U.S. in monobranded to exclude that region?

So if we exclude the problem that we have, we're actually doing well. I will not be able to disclose any details on what the resolution will be, but I can assure you that also we're working with it and we're paying attention to it. But I cannot give any more details on that here.

The monobrand channel is growing if we exclude that specific area that we are talking about. Cocoa oil has been growing as well. Enterprise has been growing in the quarter as well. And then we of course have multi-brand e-tail that is going in a different direction. So it is a specific problem to solve in that area and we are solving it at the moment.

what's the timing or when you believe you have a solution in place it's hard to predict paul um it depends on many different variables so i will not be able to give you that okay even if i would like to even if i would like to i will not be okay that's fine uh the marketing spend was down in the quarter becoming one of the lowest for many many quarters Is that you spending your money more wisely or is it the prices on getting access to media that is coming down or what's the reason?

think generally speaking we if you look at marketing and look at marketing going forwards as well we try to become more efficient and effective and making sure we have more consistent marketing and also making sure that we have a global regional a better global regional and local alignment than we've had before and we believe that we can continue to become better on doing that and the ferrari example i think is a good example on how we work globally regionally and locally on achieving good results with an efficient and effective way of dealing with it. So that model is something that we are looking in on how we will be able to improve and perfect over next fiscal year.

And the Ferrari deal, is that just extended or have you changed the content of the deal to be more extensive or what?

It's pretty much a similar type of deal that we did with Scuderia Ferrari. We obviously learned from what we did and the activations that we did last year and the second year is typically, in all my experience from marketing, a better year because all the run-in kind of issues, you get to know people and you become more efficient and effective and you know what is working and what is working best. it's essentially the same agreement but from both sides we are learning and they have learned and we're looking very positively to the next two years together with them um so no change in in how the setup is and we will continue with the licensing business obviously as well and that is also working well for us

Final question from my side that's on the Sparkle role and all the turmoil and noise out there. Is this having any impact on your business or potential changes in the future? Or is it just an external issue which you believe had no consequences for your Chinese setup?

It's very hard to predict, Paul. We are, of course, following it and we have the same information as pretty much everybody else has. Up till today, our operations is working unaffected by all of this. Will this be the case in the next month or two is hard to say. But we are also not completely dependent on Spark and Roll as partner in China. We have other partners as well. And also, which I think is very positive, is that our business with Spark and Roll is a good business for them. So whatever happens in the setup there, I'm sure that anybody who's reviewing that business will find it to be a good business and a profitable business and will want to make to maintain that.

from that point of view i i think we're not worried but you never know either because we may not have all the details and all the clarity in that but for the time being we don't see any ominous clouds on the sky but we are of course ironing out different scenarios and figuring out how to how to deal with different outcomes so so so so i think we are taking it seriously but right now we have a good relationship with them

Okay, thank you. That's all from me.

Thanks, Paul.

Thank you, Paul.

As there are no further questions in the queue, I'll hand it back to the speakers for any closing remarks.

Yeah, to everybody who joined today, a big thank you for joining and for all your questions. And if you have any additional questions, don't hesitate to reach out to Kristina in our IR department for further clarifications. Thank you.