DNB Bank ASA

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the presentation of the results for the first quarter for DMB. And thanks to the DJ for the dance music this morning. Also, welcome everyone on the stream following us online. And first, a few safety instructions. There is a safety exit back here and in the back and on your left side. And there are no planned safety drills today. We will be presenting the results, our CEO and CFO, and then afterwards, there will be ample time for questions, and members of the press will be able to meet management outside as usual afterwards. Kerstin, the floor is yours.

Thank you so much, Even, and a very good morning to all of you. So pleased to see so many of you here for the announcement of our first quarter result in this year, 2024. It's been a good start to the year for the Norwegian economy, and the start has actually been better than anticipated. Inflationary pressure somewhat lower than expected, a continued low unemployment, and we see some improvement in certain sectors who have been more challenged, we see improvements in the retail trade as well as the servicing industry. It has indeed also been a very active quarter across the group, which is demonstrated by the strong set of results that we deliver today. As usual, I'll take you through some of the highlights from the numbers. The profit for the period is 10.2 billion and the return on equity 15.6%, a level that is well above the minimum targeted level of 13%. Our net interest income is down by 2.9% compared to the fourth quarter, substantially up from the first quarter last year, but the downtick this quarter is impacted by a lower credit demand and lower refinancing activity. Over to fees. This is the strongest first quarter we've ever seen on the fee and commission side. It is a strong and diversified fee platform that we build gradually, bit by bit. And the real strong point this quarter, I would highlight assets under management, a continued very active saving markets that we've been working systematically with for a long time. Portfolio continues to be very robust, 99.3% of the portfolio in status one or two. Impairment provisions for the quarter, 323 million kroner, and nothing in particular to highlight from that relatively low cost of risk for the quarter. Capital position remains rock solid, 19% core equity ratio. That should be seen also in combination with our earnings per share, which has increased close to 10%, 9.3% from the previous quarter, 6.48 for the quarter. And that, in combination with a rock solid balance sheet, provides a very solid base for delivering on our dividend policy. Back to the economy, as I said, a stronger start to the year than anticipated. This has led to a projected uptick in the expected growth for the year. D&B markets previously said 0.5. They now believe in a growth for the Norwegian economy overall for 0.8%. The activity also from the corporates and the businesses is expected to hold steady during the first half of the year and thereafter gradually pick up. Inflation levels are continuing to come down, both headline and core inflation. Headline inflation was at 3.9% for the month of March, expected to continue downwards also in the year ahead of us. Key policy rate was kept stable at 4.5% in the central bank's meeting during the month of March, further confirming that we have now reached the top of interest rate hikes. But DNB markets, on the back of a stronger start in the economy, lower inflation pressure and expectations of higher spending has pushed out their expectations for the first rate hike that was in September, and now it has been pushed out towards December this year. Rates are thereafter gradually expected to come down towards 3.25%, that is seen more as the longer-term equilibrium in this cycle. Looking again at households, unemployment has remained very low, and households indeed very, very resilient in this economic cycle with increasing inflation and increasing rates. They are expected to remain low. They might tick slightly upwards from 1.8% unemployment up towards 2.4%, but still at levels which are considered to be very low. This year's wage negotiations have not yet been fully completed for all sectors, but the most important wage negotiation that happens in Norway is with the industry, and they have finalized their negotiations with an agreed level of 5.2% wage growth. Others are expected to follow their lead, and this strengthens the belief and the outlook for a growth this year in real wage and a growth in disposable income. This is likely to strengthen confidence, it strengthens purchasing power, and it strengthens consumer spending towards the second half and the end of the year. If we look at the housing market there hasn't been a decrease it's constantly been moving more positively than expected this has also been the case so far this year the expectations from markets is now for house prices to grow three percent this year and six percent next year There is an increased activity in the market. There is a low activity in construction. And both of these elements underlines the likelihood of continued increasing prices in the housing markets going forward. All in all, the outlook for the Norwegian economy provides a very healthy backdrop for our business going forward. All the same, we again highlight the elevated geopolitical risk and the conflicts that are ongoing, which does provide a higher level of uncertainty than we have been used to having for quite some years. And that is important to keep in mind. Turning to some of the highlights for the key business areas. In personal customers, they deliver solid financial results. Pre-tax profits are up 8.3% from last year, 4.6% from the previous quarter. It has been a slower quarter on growth. This is impacted by a slower credit demand and a lower activity in refinancing, among others. The growth in the quarter has also been negatively impacted by the technical integration of S-Banken onto the DNB platform. This is all the same a very important milestone in our journey of strengthening our competitive position and our ability to both build better services for our customers as well as take out synergies from S-Banken, which is still a very strong business case and improves our competitive position overall. We continue to see very attractive growth in savings, gradually, quarter by quarter, as you can see. We continue to have net growth in sales of saving agreements. We continue to have an increased number of users in our savings app that receives very good ratings. And our retail position, alongside a strong distribution position and good management has been key drivers for enabling asset management to now pass through the level of 1000 billion kroner that they have under their actively managed portfolio. Another highlight to mention from private banking is that they have systematically for some time been working to build portfolio that are discretionally mandated from their customers. That portfolio is now 19 billion, closing in on 20 billion. And the growth that we have seen for the past year has been at 34%. So there are many important drivers that build systematically our position and growth our presence in the savings and asset management market. Another thing to highlight strongly for personal customers is the resilience and robustness of the portfolio. Very, very few situations that are challenging and very low reserves on that portfolio overall. So overall, a very strong performance for the team in a quarter with very, very high customer activity. Moving on to corporate banking, also an area with high activity and increasing activity during the quarter, in particular in the export-related industries in Norway and in renewable and anything related to companies investing into the energy transition. We have seen a growth in lending volumes of 2.8 for the quarter on the lending side and 7.2 on the deposit side, where we continue to see that the quality and robustness of D&B provides us the trust from customers to put their deposits with us. There's been also, I'd say, a high activity from other areas than lending. Pre-tax profit is down, and revenue also in this area is down, but if you adjust for the market-to-market elements in the previous quarters, earnings from non-lending-related activity is at par with the first quarter last year, and this was a very, very strong quarter. We have further also strengthened our position with our customers. Last year, Prospera rated us the number one bank for corporates in general. This first quarters, we are humbled to see that our clients rate us as the number one bank for payment services as well as trade finance. And these are areas that we have invested into both through technology and people for quite a while to continue to build services and value for our customers. A strong start to the year for D&B markets, surpassing the 1 billion also in pre-tax profit for the first quarter this year. Strong elements being more on the debt capital market side, credit broking, as well as customer-related revenue. And we continue to see how this business benefits from a broad, diversified platform that reduces volatility compared to some of our peers in this area. All in all, a good quarter in both the main areas. And with that, I will leave the floor to you, Ida.

Thank you, Kerstin. I would now like to take you through the quarterly results in a bit more detail. Loan volumes are up 0.7% in the quarter, with corporate customers up 2.8% and 1.1% FX adjusted. Personal customers are down 1.4%. There was a strong momentum in the corporate customer segment towards the end of the quarter, which provides us with a strong pipeline moving into the second quarter. Volumes in personal customers are primarily affected by lower average growth that you see in the overall market, lower refinancing activity, and the technical integration of S-banken onto the same IT platform as D&B. The latter is expected to level off, and the integration is important for us, primarily to ensure innovation going forward, but also to take out synergies further down the line. This is an important milestone and we are now well positioned to create customer value and profitable growth also supported by the increased activity that we have seen during the end of the quarter in the real estate market. We reiterate our long-term ambition of a profitable annual loan growth of between 3% to 4% over time. But as mentioned earlier, we expect this to vary year on year. We still expected muted growth in the first half of this year and then start to pick up in the second half, driven by the strong Norwegian economy, as Kerstin pointed to, increase in real wages, as well as the underlying growth in market activity. Deposit volumes are up by 3.9%. Deposits from corporate customers are up by 7.2%, while we see a decrease in the personal customers of 0.9%. We continue to maintain a strong deposit to loan ratio of 77.3%. The net interest margin was down by three basis points in the quarter, now amounting to 187, driven by lower average volumes in the quarter, strong competition, and product mix effects. The combined spreads in the customer segments are up one basis points. This includes the full effects of the repricings implemented in October, as well as in November, and partial effects of the repricing implemented end of February. That takes me to net interest income, which decreased by 471 million in the quarter. Total effects from customer repricings and product mix effects amounts to 105 million in the quarter. The effects of change in spreads amounted to 162 million. Development in spreads reflects effects of repricings combined with a relatively stable money market rates. This was somewhat counteracted by lower average volumes, strong competition, and the product mix effect I mentioned related to deposits, which we also saw in the fourth quarter. The decrease in NII coming from Treasury relates to a flatter yield curve. Fewer interest dates negatively affected NII by 161 million, somewhat higher due to the effect that we see of the leap year. Volumes and FX effects decreased NII by 93 million. Lending growth coming from the corporate customer segment came late in the quarter. FX effects was driven by a stronger average knock during the quarter. NII in the quarter was also negatively impacted by a number of other items, totalling 322 million. Among others, interest on impaired loans, as well as amortisation effects and fees. We continue to note a strong contribution from our customer-related fee income stemming from a diversified product platform. In addition to what's shown on the slide behind me, we also see a continued strong development in FICC. We deliver an all-time high first quarter results when it comes to net commission and fees at 2.7 billion, up 2.6% from, as Kerstin mentioned, a solid quarter last year. The results from real estate broking was down 14%, reflecting a lower activity and the fact that Easter came in the first quarter this year compared to last year when Easter was in the second quarter. Investment banking was down 7% compared to a strong first quarter 2023. We noted a strong contribution from debt capital markets, somewhat lower activity in relation to M&A and equity capital markets. Bond issuance picked up during the quarter, and we saw that bringing increased activity towards the end. Asset management and custodial services was up 30% compared to the same period last year. Asset under management was up 157 billion, driven by positive market developments, but also positive net inflow effects from both our retail customers as well as institutional customers. As Kerstin mentioned, we have now surpassed 1,000 billion in asset under management. This is a solid proof that our customers continue to be committed to their long-term savings schemes, and we also see increased number of savings schemes in addition to increased savings on a monthly basis. Guarantee commission was up 0.3%, reflecting a solid demand for trade finance products also in this quarter. Money transfer and banking services was up 1.4%, driven by higher travel activity and increased income from banking services. Sale of insurance product was down by 3.6%, where we recognised a continued positive development in the non-guaranteed pension side, which is somewhat offset by a decrease in non-life insurance. Moving on to cost. Operating expenses are down by 419 million compared to the fourth quarter, reflecting a seasonally lower activity in the quarter. This is exemplified by the decrease in expenses related to variable salaries, travel and training, as well as IT. Due to seasonality, the second quarter generally carries higher activity-related costs than the first quarter. Now over to the portfolio quality, which remains robust and well diversified, with 99.3% of the portfolio in stage one and two. The personal customer portfolio, which accounts for approximately 50% of our exposure default, remains strong. We do not see a negative development in the portfolio and there have been fewer requests for interest only periods in the quarter. For the corporate customers, impairment provisions total 212 million. The portfolio remains robust and well diversified and there are no structural changes in the portfolio or general negative migration to note. The impairments in state three are related to customer specific situation, both in large corporates as well as in the small and medium sized enterprises. We remain comfortable with the credit quality in the portfolio, but would like to remind you that losses will vary quarter to quarter in light of the current macroeconomic environment. Now moving on to capital. Our core tier one capital remains strong at 19% with a 214 basis points headroom to NFSA's expectation. The increase in core tier one capital ratio is supported by profit generation as well as the ordinary dividend stemming from the D&B life insurance business accounting for 31 and eight basis points respectively. Portfolio growth and currency effects was offset by positive migration in the credit portfolio. The latest share buyback program was completed during the quarter and the Board of Directors will seek an approval from the annual General Assembly of buying back up to 3.5% of outstanding shares. Leverage ratio remains strong at 6.2%. And with a core tier one capital ratio of 19% and a leverage ratio of 6.2%, our capital position remains strong, which will also enable us to continue to deliver on our dividend policy in the years ahead. Summing up. We deliver a strong result in the first quarter, which also reflected in our key numbers. Return on equity came in at 15.6%, earnings per share at 6.48, cost income ratio at 35.7. I also want to point to the fact that the tax rate for 2024 is expected to be 20%, but our long-term guiding remains unchanged at 23%. Thank you. And then we open up for questions.

Thank you, Ida and Kerstin. And we will take some questions from the audience. Please bear in mind to use the microphone that is handed to you so our online viewers also can listen to the question. Vegard, Tovre, Pareto first.

Thank you. I wondered if I could start with two questions there. You mentioned around 300 million or more other effects in the NII in the quarter. Are those all temporary in nature, so we could expect some reversals next quarter? Or is the NII for Q1 a good baseline going from here? That's the first one. And secondly, Kerstin, you mentioned that the integration with S-Banken has weighed on the retail growth in the quarter. Is it possible to put a number on the volumes either converted into your systems or the S-Banken mortgage volumes at the end of Q1? We could just have a number for reference. Thank you.

I'll start with the latter, and then Ida can take the various pieces in NII. We are not... Now that S-banken is integrated into DNB, it doesn't really make sense to sort of split them out, because that would be comparing apple and pear. So I can't give you specific numbers, but we can confirm that it has had an impact both related to the fact that we had to close shop for some days to do it, as well as the clients experiencing a lot of changes that some reacted negatively to. It is a meaningful impact in the first quarter figure as such. Now the integration is complete, we are working on repairing what we in Norwegian would call childhood diseases and focusing on continuously improving the offering to customers. But we're not really able to give you the exact specific number.

Understood. Is it then possible to say how much volume was converted from S-Banken systems and into D&B in March?

I'm afraid I can't sort of give you any more specific details to that other than saying just on a broader basis, the volumes in S-Banken are still substantially higher than when we made the initial offering in that sense, sort of confirming still a positive development. But movements more particularly month by month, we're not able to provide.

But that's a helpful number. Thank you.

When it comes to the NIIFX, there are several factors here in the other element that has moved negatively this quarter. I wouldn't say that there is necessarily a one-off, but of course, if you look at the interest on impaired loans, that's a reflection of what we're seeing in the underlying credit quality and how that has changed over time. And also, if you look at the loans or the amortization effects of fees, that's more relative to the activity in terms of the refinancing market. When we see that picking up, that should also bring about increased NII effects here. Looking at what we're seeing on the treasury side, I would say that we saw a positive development related to the yield curve last year that we are not seeing this year due to the fact that that's more stabilized today.

Thank you.

Thank you. Johan Strum from Carnegie. Thank you, Evan. Two questions from my side as well. I noticed one comment on the NII slide that you gave, increased competition. Just wondering if you can elaborate a little bit about that. And then secondly, I guess many of us were positively surprised by the strong C to 1 ratio in the quarters. So the cordler bridge, can you help us a little bit on the development there, especially on the risk weighted asset side?

Yes, we talked about competition. I think we even did so during the last quarter, and it's not unexpected, I would say, in view of a market where the credit demand has slowed down. It's been a slowing market during the second half in terms of activity related to house purchasing and an increased activity and awareness, I would say, from clients in terms of of moving around. So at the moment, always we're used to having very strong competition in the Norwegian market, but now even more so, as I think that the growth appetite is somewhat higher than what the demand is. So there is intense competition. No reason to believe that this changes in nature from being a rational market to anything else, but we expect competition to continue to be intense and we expect growth to be somewhat muted in the first half due to a lower demand. Thereafter, looking at the Norwegian economy with a wage settlement of 5.2%, the growth in house prices, a gradually improving outlook and a stronger sentiment for the economy, I mean, this should positively impact the picture overall. Yes.

Can I just squeeze in there? Nordea was very explicit yesterday saying that they... aim to grow at the size of D&B, which sounds very unrealistic. But have you seen a step up from Nordea's competition or their behavior in the market as a reason?

I think we'll keep our comments general that competition is intense. And I would also say that we believe that is a good thing. It's a good thing about this market and it keeps actors, all of the banks that are active on our toes. And the only way to win is by being good. both in terms of having competitive pricing, but certainly also in having a competitive offering. And we have seen varied success from different players across these markets. We believe systematically, thoroughly building positions and value over time. is at least our way, and we continue to focus also on profitable growth. And we have earlier said as well, in periods with larger terminals in the market, steep interest rate increases, or a lot of focus, these tends to be the periods where we do not necessarily perform at our best what we are seeing ahead of us are more a period where gradually economy improves. Most people have made the adjustment into a different level and an environment where all of our focus will be just on that delivering value and improve our offerings to customers.

On the capital side, the most important element is, as you know, the generation of the first line of defence in terms of profit generation, 31 basis points, adding to the quarter one capital ratio. In addition to that, the ordinary dividend from D&B Life of 887 million coming in this quarter is, of course, a positive element in terms of bringing eight basis points. And then you rightly point to positive migration. Positive migration, we haven't specified how much that adds in in quarter one capital ratio, but I would say that that's more customer specific in terms of what's happened during the quarter, which has a positive element bringing to the quarter one capital ratio.

Thank you. Next question from Jan-Erik Erland in ABG. Okay.

Yes, thank you. I have a couple of questions as well. When it comes to your deposit growth, you seem to be growing there quite nicely on the corporate side, especially. What kind of corporate deposits are you actually winning? Is it public sector? Is it abroad? Which kind of level is it shrinking in the retail area? Is the retail change a positive impact by the mutual funds net inflow? So we actually see migration from retail savings accounts into the mutual funds, since you haven't sort of picked up your pricing. And secondly, on the IT system, you have been very strong at cost of many, many years. I read an article yesterday about you changing your IT system over the next 10 years. So could you elaborate a little bit on what kind of spending you're talking about and what kind of situation we want to see on the IT side going forward from that? Thank you.

On the deposit side, you're quite right. It's a very attractive growth overall, and it's combined with some different bits and pieces. Yes, there is a higher growth in the larger corporates. These are attractive volumes at lower prices than you would see for the average deposit margins, but still very accretive to our return on equity. We manage this very carefully in view of funding and equity. attractivity in terms of taking taking deposits in it's a bit difficult to comment specifically on what were exactly the volumes this quarter but yes public sector that is also tied to our position very strong position now as a payment services bank and attractive products that we have invested into on the IT side for quite some time. That gives us a lot of public sector clients who choose us not necessarily because of our being best on pricing, but we are the best one on the total offerings. So these are very attractive volumes. Now, on the retail side, as we have said, I think this goes for both SMEs and personal customers. There's an increased... awareness and focus on moving money around to get the best return. Of course, we do see savings overall, so some clients choose to put money into mutual funds and we actively encourage that and advise on the sensible sort of long-term savings strategy for customers. But overall, there is growth. And first quarter on the retail side is usually not a very strong quarter on deposits. So there's nothing extraordinarily on the deposit side. beyond, I would say, the increased awareness and moving around between different types of accounts and still a very, very strong trend on savings, which we've been talking to you about for a long time in this area. IT systems, I think we've been quite clear for quite some time that we are accelerating modernization of our IT systems. This has been going on for quite a while already. We have invested a lot, as I've been mentioning, on the payment side. We're moving on to other areas. We have not indicated any substantial uptake on the cost side. I think we've been saying to you on the tech side that we don't want to spend too much, we don't want to spend too little either. and there has been a focus of strengthening the competency in-house. But we're not signalling any substantial changes in the cost level, other than saying that that area, as well as the rest of the cost base, is obviously impacted by the inflationary pressure in the market that we're working to offset by a lot of initiatives related to increased efficiency.

Would you scrap your old IT system, the sort of the core basis, which is heading back to the 80s or early 90s?

Well, you know, we have more than one IT system, Jan-Erik. So we innovate and build new and modernize our tech stack continuously. And I think one of the things that we have done that we see a lot of benefit from today is that we as well are a result of having merged a lot of entities over the years, but we have one core together on these. When we modernize, we turn off some systems and this is a portfolio that we manage gradually and we believe the best quality comes from having the best people and we are fortunate to have a lot of excellent people on the team and working systematically very closely with our business to develop over time. But yes, we will turn off gradually some of the systems.

Turning off system, you turned off the S-Banken system. What kind of cost benefit did you have from that, if you can elaborate?

We are not sort of giving any other specifics beyond saying that the synergies that we have announced for S-Banken is certainly still a part of the plan. We have announced 300 million in total and obviously bringing bringing all of our concepts and offerings onto the same platform is one important step to realize those synergies. I would say it's also even more important to build an increased attractiveness for the customers and in a pace of innovation ahead of us.

Thank you. Thomas Svensson from SEB.

Yes, good morning. So when looking at the supplementary information, we can see that the deposit margin for personal clients declined by 20 bps last quarter, and now another 30 bps for Q1. So are there any seasonality or technicalities there, accumulated deposits getting interest bearing or something like that, or is this just an underlying decline of 30 bps in a quarter?

I didn't see where you were sitting. Good question. I think the key driver is the lag effect levelling off that we have seen in an increasing interest rate environment. When you look at the deposits, or the margin, sorry, for deposits and lending, it's measured towards the money market rate, which is ahead of the repricings, and this creates a lag effect. We've seen a more stable money market rate in the past two quarters, so then the repricings are seen more clearly in the margin. So that would be the absolute largest impact. And then you have the additional impact of customers moving their money around and more stable volume development than we saw until the third quarter last year.

And second question, you earlier talked about the jobs or the income growing faster than costs, and now we are pointing to this attractive high above 5% wage increase. Do you think it's possible to, the next 12 months, grow income faster than costs?

We always focus to have profitable growth in the business and to grow our non-lending related activity faster than we grow our volumes. We've had a very high, much higher pace on the revenue than the cost side for the past couple of years, and we'll work hard to to set off impacts related to cost inflation, but we're not sort of nominally guiding on where that will end up.

Thank you. Thank you, Neruna. Any questions from our viewers online? Okay, so let's give the guy a microphone. Thank you.

Thank you. There's a question from Sophie Peterson from JP Morgan. And in general, the question is, the NII decline, is it more structural? And should we expect NII weakness to continue?

The NII decline is related to a series of factors that I think we've outlined quite in detail. I mean, there are more temporary impacts, such as the number of interest rate days, and there is a lower credit demand and lower refinancing activity and increased competition. I think there are also... activity related elements that Ida has pointed to in relation to amortization and fees that are more activity based that will vary from quarter to quarter. I think the important thing to look at is the development in the housing market that is improving in terms of activity that lines up with the growth in disposable income and the outlook for the Norwegian economy that is expected to strengthen throughout the year. So I wouldn't point to anything other than the fact that we seem to have reached the top in terms of interest rate hikes this time around, and consumer activity is impacted by absorbing the impacts of inflation and interest rates, but seems very resilient, and we expect growth to gradually pick up again.

Very good. We do have a question from Shrey from Citibank. How are you seeing deposit composition and mix shift from transaction accounts to saving accounts progressing from here?

Well, progressing from here, what we saw last quarter, I would like to point to that. That's when we said that we saw a shift in terms of how much of our deposit volumes that were in transactional accounts in the personal customer segment. Then we moved from saying that we had 25% of all deposits on transactional accounts and 75% on savings accounts. That mix shifted to 2377 last quarter. I wouldn't say that we've seen a similar activity and a shift from transaction account to savings account, but more in relation to what Kerstin pointed to from different types of savings accounts in between types of savings account, rather than moving from the transaction accounts to savings accounts.

Thank you so much. Then we have a question from Roy Tilly in Arctic. Thank you.

I have two, actually. Quickly on S-Banking, I noticed you cut mortgage rates by 15 basis points yesterday. I'm just wondering kind of the reasoning behind the decision, and as a follow-up, at what level of mortgage rates would kind of growth not be equity anymore? Is there still a... profitable level or not? And then secondly, on the migration effects on capital, if we could just touch upon which sectors you're seeing the positive migration and what's driving that. Thank you.

On S-Banken, it's an initiative related to demonstrating the offensive attitude of S-Banken being a challenger, and we acknowledge that our customers have been patient. They've lived through a lot of changes that they haven't asked for. We have had very strong and competitive prices in S-Banken, but we're doing an initial effort to show that we are serious in saying we are going to build the best customer offering that is out there, and this is just the start. With regards to creativeness and profitability, I mean, we manage a portfolio with different offerings and different prices, and we do not sort of specifically state on individual elements, but I can assure you that we do focus on profitable growth and development of the business.

And when it comes to the positive migration that you saw in the quarter, I think you can see from the fact book that that was partly, it's customer specific, but it's partly commercial real estate. But you also see it in the oil-related industries and similar to offshore.

Thank you very much. Thank you. We have a last follow-up question from Vegard, still on. You give the benefit of the doubt to have one extra question today.

You mentioned the lower fee contribution. You mentioned the lower contribution from non-life. Is that from volume or margin? And can you then, in your answer, since it's only one question, elaborate on how your growth efforts there are going and in connection with the merger if there's any changes to the level of fees thank you impressive

We're still very happy with the merger, and we're merging with more in the non-life area with Fremt. We do continue to see it as a very important element into our product spectre, and we believe one of the strong points is where we see offer our customers a lot of products that tends to drive satisfaction. So that's more of a general comment. Having said that, I mean, this year and part of last year was a tough year for the non-life business. We have seen an increase in increase in events both related to nature and other bringing up the cost of injuries by lack of a better term. So that industry is repricing the products. It makes it challenging on the sales side because It's hard to compare an offering. This happens gradually into the markets. I think that is one element that certainly impacts the activity level. It is still a very attractive and profitable business, and we're still very much committed to continuing working on it. But the activity on the sales side is impacted a little bit by how this price development is moving. Was there another question? No. No, I don't think so.

He seems satisfied. Thank you so much, everyone. Thank you, Kerstin. Thank you, Ida. And for those of you from the press, if you are not on the list yet, then you can contact Øystein in the back there, and he will put you on the list. Thank you, everyone, for listening in, and have a good day.