Caledonia Investments plc

Well, look, welcome, welcome everybody to our annual results. And you're gonna hear from myself, Tim Libet, our finance director, and Tom Leader who runs Private Capital today. If you have any questions you'd like to ask, please email them to Laura on the email address at the back of the presentation, and we'll deal with those, we'll deal with all those as they get asked. Just before we start, I would just like to point out that we really have the easy job here. We have some brilliant colleagues within the investment team and within the support teams in the organisation. And there's an incredible amount of hard work that goes into both creating the results and sort of measuring them and presenting them. And so it's really good that we've got all those brilliant colleagues working away and we just really have the easy bit of just sort of reading it all out for everybody. So moving to the first page and just covering the highlights for the year. I think in the context of what we could describe as certainly different and probably difficult market conditions, we are reasonably pleased with the plus 5.5% NAV total return for the year. And bearing in mind that this year follows two very strong years, with returns in the neighborhood of 27% across the previous two years. NAV per share is a very small advance on the position at the interim stage and sort of a 1% improvement in returns. But actually, there's a hell of a lot changed since the interims with financial markets and the pound strengthening over that period. And they both pretty much netted each other out with the stronger pound obviously reducing the value of our overseas assets, but markets improving a lot and so boosting returns. And they sort of nested each other off. Private capital and funds made good contributions to returns during the year, with the listed areas being a bit more muted. Looking at our net assets, they only grew by half a percent. During the year, we paid out £130 million in dividends. And this included last year's special dividend of £1.75 a share. And so we've basically paid up most of the social return by way of dividends during the year. Today, we're announcing an increase in our final dividend of 4% to 49.2 pence, making the annual dividend, the total annual dividend 67.4 pence. At the interim, we announced that Tim was going to retire from executive life, in fact. So we were sorry to see him go. We had a process and we've managed to find a replacement. And so today we're announcing that Rob Memmott will be taking over as CFO from the 1st of September. And we're looking forward to Rob joining us. And Tim will provide an orderly handover with Rob. And then last but not least, post year end in April, our private capital team led the deal to acquire a majority stake in the European division of AirServe with 142.5 million coming from Caledonia and 60 million coming from banks. And Tom will tell us more about that a bit later in the presentation. Turning to our performance track record, I think the gold bars show the Caledonia NAV total return over three, five and 10 years. And we're pleased that these continue to be either at the top end or in fact ahead of our strategic aims. So we continue to have good, strong long-term performance. We do however note that the share price total return does somewhat lag the NAV total return. And this is because the discount on our shares has moved from 20% to just over 30% over this period. And so that has introduced a gap between the two. And we would also note, it's not particularly an excuse, but we just sort of note that in the market, investment companies with high levels of private asset exposure have seen their discounts widen over this period. So moving on to the next page, page three, strategy and allocation. The investment pools provide a clear structure for managing specialist investment teams, all of whom are focusing on well-established and proven strategies. Each of the teams has concentrated portfolios, which means that we really get the best ideas from talented investment professionals. But then when they're combined together, we get a very good level of diversification for our shareholders. It provides good risk mitigation. I just thought it'd be useful going through the risk reward characteristics of each of the pools, because I know this is an area of interest at the moment. So within the created pool, we're investing in good quality companies that have the ability to grow over time, but we are avoiding high growth. And we are looking to not take on sort of high multiple risk that comes hand in hand with that approach. And it's quite interesting that this year, the capital portfolio whose returns we'll see have kept up with international markets over the longer term, actually proves to be a lot more defensive this year than those markets. And that's sort of emphasising the fact that we're not chasing those high growth investments a bit. It's a bit more garb, I think, probably what people would probably refer to as a growth at a reasonable price. Private capital is a collection of, we're aiming for six to eight companies where they're profitable, well-established and have positive cash flows. We value them. And we, the multiples that they're valued on is between sort of nine and 14 times enterprise value to EBITDA sort of multiple. So just to give you a sense of the valuations of those companies. And we use moderate levels of gearing and the gearing level gearing varies between sort of one times and three and a half times earnings. So there's gearing in there to help returns, but not to drive returns. Moving on to funds, which is split between North America and Asia. We do have some Canadian funds. So this is the funds portfolio split between North America and Asia. The North American portfolio, which is 17% of Caledonia's net asset value, is focused on lower mid-market opportunities. They're typically the first institutional investor into profitable companies. They typically invest on single digit multiples and apply moderate levels of gearing similar to private capital. And then these companies are typically for want of a better term, professionalised before being sold onto private equity or strategic buyers who are not particularly reliant on the IPO market for exits. The Asian portfolio, which is 13% of Caledonia's net asset value has very different risk reward drivers from the rest of the portfolio with more focus on earlier stage and growth companies. And also it has a lot more of the sort of IPO aspect to it in terms of delivering exits and also valuations. So it has very different risk reward drivers from the rest of the portfolio. So hopefully that gives people an idea of the risk reward aspects of the portfolio. Moving on to page four, we will go through each of the pools in turn. So we won't dwell all the way through it. It's worth just talking about the dividend at this stage, where from a strategic perspective, where I mean to cover the dividend and our costs, half from investment income. with the other half from the funds portfolio which is now maturing cash generative and we should provide us with a natural level of cash flow cover. So we're looking at a cash flow cover for our dividend and we're aiming for over one times with investment income and cash inflow from the funds portfolio. I say from a strategic perspective, because a large aspect of the investment income comes from private capital, and this can be lumpy with exits and dividend recaps, meaning that it can move around from the ETF, but from a strategic perspective, we should get that covered. Moving on to slide five, which provides analysis of the portfolio, various different looks at it, by domicile and revenue and then looks at the currency. And really the one to look at, I think is the revenue, which shows that the UK is 17% of the luxury revenues. It's a very international portfolio. And so inevitably we have quite a high US dollar exposure with 50% of the NAV in dollars. So we will feel the impact of the pound moving around against the dollar and the Euro. Moving on to slide six, you can see the sector allocation. Now, we don't have top down sector allocation instructions for the investment teams. All the investment teams are long term investors looking to benefit from being long term holders of companies. And so it tends to be advisable to steer clear of heavily cyclical sectors. And we tend to avoid sectors with high levels of gearing. um we have financials there at 17 but that is largely um 7im and stonehague fleming and some asset management investment advisory businesses we don't have any banks in the portfolio so we avoid that balance sheet risk and we also have very low energy exposure because that tends to be very significant So looking at each of the portfolios in turn, we've created equity, which is run by Alan Moran and Ben Archer. This is two portfolios, a capital portfolio and an income portfolio. Both of them concentrated the 15 to 20 holdings in each portfolio and in fact five holdings in common. And they're looking for companies to do the work rather than our trading to do the work. And in fact, over the last year, we didn't add any new names to the portfolios. And really what happened is the buying opportunities, bear in mind, we tend to look internationally, the buying opportunities were really during September when the markets were weak. but unfortunately at that point of time the pound was also very weak so we were we just found it difficult to convert shareholders pounds money into into those assets at that point so we didn't really we weren't able to really take advantage of that market weakness we did a bit of buying and selling around the edges in the portfolio but nothing nothing significant um They tend to spend a lot of their time doing research. And as you've heard just now, not much time doing actual trading. And I think they sort of subscribe to the doctrine of the opportunity favoring the prepared mind. And they're very focused on building a high quality portfolio. As I mentioned earlier, the capital portfolio was pretty defensive, so got plus 1.1% performance during the year, which is pretty good when you consider that it's been keeping up with things like the S&P 500 and MSCI over longer periods of time, which did not deliver a positive performance in pounds over the period. The income portfolio had its strategy changed in 2019 when we moved its yield target from 4.5% to 3.5% and we moved it from a yield on value to yield on cost. And so really it's only the first group of numbers that are relevant to the current strategy there. This year, alongside our annual report, we are publishing our TCFD report, which is the Task Force on Climate-Related Financial Disclosures. And initially, we are disclosing the carbon footprint and transition risks associated with the quoted pool. Now, we're not necessarily looking to drive down these numbers over time because for all sorts of reasons, it might be good for companies with high carbon footprints to have shareholders like us being involved with them. But we are interested in being transparent with our shareholders about what the carbon content is of the portfolio so they can understand that. When you get the TCFD report, you might find it interesting to see that the quoted Paul's Scope 1 and 2 carbon footprint is about 64% lower than the MSCI World Index's carbon footprint. And that 93% of the companies in the portfolio are targeting net zero by 2050. Moving on to the capital portfolio on page eight. Some information there so you can see the underlying exposures. The top 10 holdings there are representing 80% of the value. So it is a concentrated portfolio. The main detractor was Charter Communications whose share price fell 30% in pounds over the year. As a sort of silver lining, Charter buys back a lot of shares each year. So during their last financial year, they bought back 12% of their shares. Over the last three years, I think they've bought back about 30% of their shares. So it is for us, for long-term holders, when these companies have periods where their price weakens and the company can go and buy back more than 10% of the share count, that's hopefully setting up a good long-term performance. Interestingly, our best performer was Oracle. It rose 21% during the year in pounds. And they are also an enthusiastic purchaser of their own shares. And they bought back 5% of their shares during their last financial year to May 2022. Over the last five years, they've bought back 36% of their shares. And these buybacks are quite solid engines of value creation over time, especially if you're a long-term shareholder. Now, we've got one other company in the portfolio, Texas Instruments, which is also a prolific buyback. But the other companies aren't quite on the same level. So I wouldn't want people to get the impression that we're only investing in companies that buy back sort of 10% of their shares each year. But it's just coincidental that these two, the top and bottom, are in that category. And there's all sorts of stuff written about buybacks in the financial press, but if companies have excess capital beyond what they need to invest in them, then buying back their shares at reasonable prices is generally good news for shareholders, and so we like that. Moving on to the income portfolio, we're aiming to invest £250 million into this portfolio as and when opportunities arise, with an average yield and cost of 3.5%. And so we're making good progress against that objective, but it is tricky to do equity income in quality companies, and especially over the last year where the classic equity income sectors were energy and sort of banking and had quite a strong year. And those are things we're not interested in getting involved in. The detractors during the year were REITs, so the Real Estate Investment Trust, which are a big yellow group and on the metric, we think they're superb businesses, which are excellently run. And so they've just suffered price falls of about 20% during the year, but we think they've got good long-term prospects. And then Sabre Insurance had a sort of torrid year from a share price perspective, falling 47% with a sort of hangover from COVID. They're a specialist insurance business. The hangover from COVID and then high claims inflation making it very difficult for insurance companies to operate in this market.

I'll now hand over to Tom, who runs our private capital team. Thanks, Matt.

Good morning, everybody. I'm Tom Leder. As Matt says, I run the private capital team here at Caledonia. We focus on usually taking controlling, sometimes minority stakes in high quality, established, robust UK-centric businesses. At the end of the year, we had eight portfolio companies in total. That increased by one after the year end when we acquired AirServe Europe, which I'll come back to later in the presentation. We had an 8.4% return for the year. That was respectable, but not excellent. It followed two very, very strong years in FY21 and FY22, driven by some very successful exits, deep sea electronics and bio-agiletics. The year end, we were right in the middle of our strategic capital allocation range of 30% of overall group net assets. That has gone up to 34 now, just having concluded the ESL Europe deal in April 23. We have a decent long-term performance over three years, slightly more than 27% and over five and 10 year periods in line with our capital return target of 14%, which is the exam question set for us by the board of directors at Caledonia. So respectable, but not excellent year, drilling down into what gave us those results. I'll just start by describing the shape of the portfolio. Well over 90% of the value of our portfolio is in our top five companies. As Matt alluded to, we have a large exposure to the financial services sector with our two biggest investments, seven investment management companies. and Stonehaig Fleming. I'll come back to Kirby Holt in a minute. Seven Investment Management is in fact Caledonia's single largest investment overall as well. Seven IM had a very strong year. 22 was in fact a record year of profits for Seven IM despite the turbulence in the market. Stonehaig Fleming which is also a big investment management business, something between 16 and 17 billion AUM of investment management activity at Cernac Fleming, also felt the headwinds of market turbulence. But both businesses did reasonably well over the course of 2022. CoBehold is a private investment group headquartered in Belgium. controlled by the De Spielbusch family. Caledonia have been a shareholder there for nearly 20 years. And they, like us, are a balance sheet investor focusing on private capital assets in Europe and in the US. Liberation is our pub and brewing group. We made an acquisition with Liberation during the course of the year. And again, I'll come back to that in a second. but significant especially to financials and the consumer market through liberation and then a range of other small businesses, Cook Optics and Biogeotics, for example. Just picking up the big ones again. So 7IM, a great year for 2022. Started off 23 extremely well, despite AUM declining over the course of 2022 by roughly 5%. Strong funding flows, which have continued into 2023. But the earnings momentum was really driven by controlling the cost base and that flow. we did very effectively during the course of the year. Kabipa sold their single biggest investment during the course of 2022. It was a wine and spirits distribution business called Hillebrand. And they have redeployed pretty much all of that capital into four new businesses during the course of the year, both in the US and in Europe. pretty decent return you know low double digits from kabipa it helped helped by their progress across across their portfolio but also started by the currency they are a euro denominated organization And then Stonehaig Fleming International Multifamily Office focused on the ultra high net worth individual market. I mentioned the volatile markets holding back our investment management revenues, but we successfully integrated the acquisition of the mate and private clients business and made it in fact another small acquisition towards the end of the fiscal year. in a South African investment management business called Rootstock. So progressing nicely, but not at great pace. In terms of some of our other businesses, Liberation, I alluded to, we made a merger with Cirrus Inns, which is a portfolio of 22 very high quality pubs in London and the southeast. That brings the total number of pubs at Liberation to just under 140. And we stretch from London through the southeast to Bristol and the southwest. and of course have a very significant operation in the channel items. The like for likes and year on year numbers, of course the portfolio are very encouraging. But we clearly have had some adverse impact from well-publicized issues around raw material price inflation, and that is particularly for liberation, food ingredients and energy, and also the headwinds on consumer demand, primarily around inflation and interest rates. We put in $2.5 million to help finance the acquisition of Cirrus and brought the Heineken family, who were the principal shareholders in Cirrus, into the capital structure. So good strategic progress, good operational progress, but the financials definitely held back by some of the adverse environment we're facing. And then Cooke Optics is the last of our big investments. It makes cinematography lenses. It had a very strong FY22, finishing in June 22. In fact, record results for Cooke for the year to FY22. Definitely struggling a bit more this year with some supply chain issues in our glass supply from China. And more recently, the Hollywood writers strike, which is impacting on demand. But long-term demand prospects for this business are good with the rise of all the streaming businesses, which will be, I'm sure, users of. So there's the big companies within the portfolio. Our newest investment is AirServe Europe. This is a business we acquired from a US corporation called CSC ServiceWorks, which is primarily in the laundry business. AirServe designs, manufactures, installs and operates air vacuum and jet wash machines across four courts in the UK, Ireland and Western Europe. So in continental Europe, we have activities in Germany, Benelux, France and the Iberian Peninsula. We have acquired an almost 100% stake alongside the management team. We have, as is our normal course, put in place a growth share scheme so the management can benefit from any growth in value from our entry price as we go forward together. And alongside the equity we put in, we raised the debt facility of about 60 million. Like Matt says, this is to help but not drive returns. And as a reference, it's approximately three times EBITDA, so not highly leveraged. So extremely pleased with that new acquisition, which has started well, trading. reading absolutely in line with our expectations. So with that, I shall hand back to Matt to talk about the funds.

Thank you. Thanks, Tom. So I have the privilege of telling you about the funds, Paul.

Easy job. They always do very well. They're a very well-experienced team. They're by Jamie Kazikov and Louise Fox and Min. And we're sort of standing on shoulders on shoulders. We have a great team at Caledonia picking out these funds and then they get to pick some fantastic funds for us to partner with. As a reminder, this area gives us exposure to things that we wouldn't be able to do ourselves. I mean, certainly not from London. And it's highly diversified. The North American portfolio had a strong year, delivering 22%, or just below 22%, 21.8% returns, with a benefit of about 6% from foreign exchange. As a reminder, it provides us with exposure to a rich seam of value creation built on low mid-market businesses bought using modest valuations and leverage. And typically what they do, the Americans have the term, the playbook, is they invest in these companies and typically the founder or the the proprietor will still be with those businesses. And when they go in, they have to build out a structure to enable the businesses to grow and move on to the next phase of development. And they've got very experienced GPs that we partner with at doing this. And once they've done that, and the business has had a chance to grow a bit, and with America, you've got this huge home market for businesses to grow into and take advantage of, they then get sold typically into the buyout market, or to strategic purchases. So they're not really reliant on the public markets for valuations or exits. And as I alluded to earlier, the Asian portfolio provides us with a completely different risk reward profile from much of the rest of the portfolio. It's an important source of diversification for us. And as we go forward, I'm sure an increasingly important part of the world for us to certainly understand and most likely invest in. When you're investing in Asian funds, you're generally going to be investing into earlier stage companies with high growth potential, so it's a different risk return profile from other things that we do. They are more reliant on the stock market for valuations and for exits. But it's worth pointing out that during 2022, almost half of global issuance came from the Chinese markets. And so they were far more resilient than their Western counterparts. And during the year, we received 40 million in cash distributions from the Asian portfolio. So that market is functioning alive and delivering some returns at the moment, which might be different from what you read in the newspapers. That portfolio delivered 3.6% return in pounds with again a similar sort of 6% foreign exchange benefit. Moving on to page 16 to give you a bit more information. So the top four funds listed there are funds of funds. And the approach we took certainly initially in both markets was to partner with funder funds players to help us learn about the market and manage risk. Today, Aberdeen, which is our US partner, is just under a quarter of the North American portfolio. And the Asian funded funds providers, which are the next three down, are just under half of the Asian portfolio. And that sort of reflects the pace at which we're able to develop market presence and learn about those markets. To give you an idea just how fragmented this portfolio is, The number five on the list, Stonepeak, is our largest fund. That's our largest GP relationship. And that is 4% of the fund's pool portfolio. And so then it quickly goes down from that. And then we'll look through basis. Our largest look through holding, so exposure to a single company, is 2%. And then once you get to number five on that list, you're down to 1%. So this strategy has an enormous portfolio driving it. And it's quite hard to pull out any one thing which influences returns in any given period. It's more to do with the strategy that we need to communicate with you. And then you can see the sectors and geographies where they're invested and rather like the other teams at Caledonia, they tend to avoid capital heavy, tend to favor operationally capital light businesses to invest in. So a good year from the funds team.

With that, I shall hand over to Tim. Thanks, Matt. Good morning, everybody.

Before I leap into the slides, I just want to describe one transaction that we undertook during the year, which does have an overriding impact on our financial statements, but doesn't change any of the economics of the business that we operate. So historically, we have held our U.S. private equity funds in a subsidiary company called Caledonia U.S. Investments Limited, which I will refer to as QCIL because that's a rather long name to go through every time. And so during the year, we looked at whether we could move some of those funds from that QCIL entity into the parent and take advantage of the investment trust tax status of the parent effectively and protect any gains that we make from tax. And we determined that we could move a significant proportion of those funds across. So we did that at the year end. As a result, Caledonia effectively paid QCIL for those funds. And in doing so, effectively created an asset in QCIL and effectively a borrowing sitting in the parent company. And when you see the parent company balance sheet, you'll see a borrowing there, which is all about that internal transaction. And the other side of it sits in investments effectively. So it is neutral as far as the group's concerned, but the presentation of the account shows it very slightly differently. So if we look at the specifics, the first slide here is just a summary of our comprehensive income statement. And I'm just going to draw out three or four of the key numbers. So starting at the very top investment income of about 45 million in the year, and that was down by about 11 year on year. Last year, we had two significant one-off items within our investment income. Firstly, when we sold DSE, there was a large pre-sale dividend of about 13 million. And secondly, Pennon, which was a holding within the income pool, sold a business called Viridor and then did a large capital distribution effectively associated with that. Those two items do not recur this year. However, the underlying businesses that we own have all shown good dividend progress, both in the quoted equity pool and in the private capital pool. And Cook Optics gave us a dividend of just about £4.5 million in the year versus nothing the previous year. So that helped offset to a slight degree those two one-off items that don't recur from the prior year. Moving down to gains on investments. So this is effectively reflecting the returns that Matt and Tom have talked about. 132 million in the year dominated by the gains from the private assets in the portfolio. So funds generated about 102 million and private capital about 44 million within that number. And then within the quoted equity portfolio, there was a slight negative movement of about 19%. Clearly, when you look year on year, the gain is significantly lower than the prior year. The prior year clearly benefited from all three pools performing extremely well, and there's two very significant divestments by the private capital portfolio. And then as you go down the document, you'll get to the treasury tax line. You'll see there's a charge this year of 4.4, whereas last year we had a large credit. Last year's large credit was the recognition of a deferred tax asset, and that was offsetting gains that had been made in the QCIL entity, where there was a deferred tax liability. Having moved the funds across into PLC, that deferred tax liability has been crystallised at a much, much lower level. And as a result, the deferred tax asset has been de-recognised.

And that's why there's a negative movement year on year. So comprehensive income for the year, £144 million.

That links back to the 5.5% return that Matt has described. Clearly down significantly year on year, but still a credible profit for the period. And then finally, you can see the dividends being paid out of 131 million. That was both the special and the annuals for last year. In terms of the balance sheet, the story here is relatively straightforward. So the top line investments are just under 2.8 billion, up 410 within the year. Of that 410, about 133 is real capital growth in the investment assets that we own. And that ties back to the returns that we've discussed. And the balance 266 relates to the QCIL transaction, where the value sits within investments for the receivable within QCIL. And then if you go straight down the balance sheet, you'll see minus 266 in interest bearing loans. That's the other side of that transaction. So the balance sheet nets, but because QCIL is not consolidated as an investment asset, we show it on two separate lines. Cash came down 119. Again, principally, given that from an investment perspective, we were close to net cash neutral in terms of investments and divestments in the year. And the bulk of that cash relates to the payment of dividends to the shareholders. And then at the bottom, the net asset figure of 2798 is up 15 year over year.

So to reiterate, reasonable returns almost all paid out in dividend in the year. So this graphic largely summarises what was covered on the previous two slides.

And so it's the walkthrough from opening NAV to closing NAV. You've got the performance of the business on effectively the first part of the slide, showing growth in NAV up to 2,929, and then the payment out of the dividends, taking it back to 2,798. And the gains there split between capital and investment income and offset by the management expenses of running the company. So in terms of facilities and our cash position, we renegotiated our facilities with RBSI during the year. We had two separate facilities there now combined into a single facility of £137.5 million with the parent company. That runs for five years to November 2027. And together with ING, that gives us total facilities of £250 million. We did not draw on those facilities in the current year, but they do give us a huge amount of flexibility to take advantage of market opportunities when they may arise. And then finally, as noted, the cash position of 222 was a fall of 119 year over year.

So just a quick look at share price performance.

I'm not going to claim I can explain everything that's happened in the last 12 months, but maybe a few sort of comments about the general market and our performance within it. So on the left hand side, we've just graphed the FTSE All Share Total Return Index for the last 12 months for our financial year. And over the year, that generated a return of 2.9%. However, you can see a very volatile line as you went through that 12-month period with significant drops in the summer and then a very sharp fall down to the end of September 22, as the incumbents in government at the time clearly did their best to create a degree of havoc in the financial markets. Clearly a strong recovery from there through to the end of February and a bit of a fall off again in March. So it's been a year where markets have moved quite significantly. So if you then look to the right in the Caledonia position, the gold bars are at NAB per share. There is a notable fall in June. That's when effectively we booked the dividends as an accrual and the dividends were worth about 240 pence over the year as a whole. So it was quite a marked drop. But other than that drop, our NAV per share has been relatively consistent throughout the year, and it's been around that 50 pound kind of level. However, the blue lines which represent our share price has moved quite significantly. And certainly for the first six months, you can almost plot the market onto our share price movement and get a pretty close correlation. So I think what we saw in that period was that the market was largely driving pricing and it was being done slightly independently of our NAV position. So our discount started the year at about 30%. And by the time we got to September, it was up to 37%. There was some recovery during the second half of the year. And again, our discount by the end of the year was 33%. So it improved a little. But as Matt alluded to, we are, I think, impacted by a factor that is influencing all investment trust pricing at the moment. That is, if you hold significant private assets, they are generating quite a significant discount. And that's almost regardless of the quality of those assets. Interestingly, since the year end, the share price has sort of moved up again. And so we've been trading in the £35 to £36.50 range, which just takes us back to nearer a 30% discount. So similar levels to that to which we started the year. But it's definitely a feature of the market that we're in at the moment.

These discounts are quite wide. So just pulling that all together in summary.

I think we still feel we're pretty well positioned against what is quite a challenging investment marketplace in which to operate. We do have a very diverse portfolio, as I think has been outlined by both Matt and Tom. Within that, we believe we hold high quality assets that will perform well over the long term. And we have a very strong balance sheet and we do have some flexibility within it to take advantage of opportunities if they arise. So we still believe we're well placed to deliver growth and the returns that we aspire to over the long term. So I'm going to conclude there and thank you for your attention. If you do have questions, we're very welcome to deal with them either via email or via call. So please contact us and we can respond accordingly. So thank you very much indeed for attending.