Compagnie de Saint-Gobain S.A.

Good morning. It is my pleasure to present our full year 2024 results together with Frida, our group CFO. Once again, in 2024, Saint-Gobain has delivered a very strong performance with a new record operating margin, record recurring net income, record cash flow demonstrating the strengths of our operating model and the success of our grow and impact strategy. Let me first share with you some highlights of 2024. I start as always with a few examples in light and sustainable construction of Saint-Gobain solutions being used around the world with iconic buildings. For example, Saint-Gobain provided a comprehensive range of solutions, including facet systems, fireproofing, insulation, and ceilings for the Research and Development District in Life Science in San Diego in the U.S., the largest urban commercial waterfront site in California. In 2024, we expanded our presence in high-growth markets with four major acquisitions, CSR in Australia, Bailey in Canada, Fosrock Australia, in India, Middle East, and Asia-Pacific, and Cemex in Mexico. With these acquisitions, we have further increased our presence in the high-growth geographies of North America, Asia, and emerging markets, where we now generate more than two-thirds of our operating profit, and we have also strengthened our global leadership in construction chemicals. In 2024, we also continue to differentiate our offer through sustainability with our low-carbon, energy-efficient, high-recycle content solutions, such as the recently launched Infinize Soundblock plasterboard, which is the first in the world made of 100% recycled gypsum. We launched it in the UK with British gypsum. and we achieved a 34% decrease in our scope 1 and 2 CO2 emissions versus 2017, further lowering the carbon footprint of our products. The great results have been achieved thanks to a fantastic commitment by all our teams who are always aiming higher, and I would like to congratulate and to thank warmly all of them. Let's come now to the financial results. We have delivered record results in 2024, despite the challenging environment, notably in Europe. A sequential improvement in sales, with plus 1.6% growth in the second half of 2024 compared to the previous year, a constant exchange rate, a record operating margin at 11.4%, a record recurring net income at 3.5 billion euros, and also record level of free cash flow at 4 billion euros with a 62% cash conversion ratio. Shredda will give you all the details on the financials in a few minutes. In a nutshell, we have constantly delivered on our grow and impact strategy. with first of course a very strong set of financials demonstrating our excellent operational execution Second, our solutions approach reflecting in our pricing power, increased share of wallet and enhanced product mix. Third, a very disciplined capital allocation towards high growth geographies and construction chemicals. And last, our focus on sustainability, which is more and more a competitive advantage for us. Before I leave the floor to Shredda, I would like to say a few words about the changes that we have announced last week. As you know, Shredda will be taking over a new role as CEO of Asia-Pacific and India region, starting beginning of April and succeeding to Santanam, our Asia and India CEO, who is retiring at the age of 68 after a brilliant career of 45 years within Saint-Gobain. I would like to thank you, Chredin, to thank Chredin very warmly for the deep, successful impact he has made to the group as CFO for the past six years and for being an exceptional business partner for me and for all Saint-Gobain colleagues. In his new role in the executive committee, I have every confidence that Sheda will bring all his skills, all his passion, all his energy, and all his experience to accelerate the profitable development, no pressure, Sheda, of Sangoma in the high-growth markets of India, across also Asia-Pacific, and, of course, including our recent move, big move in Australia with CSR. I'm very pleased to welcome Maud Thiodet as our new CFO after 13 years of Thales, where she had various roles, operations, M&A, In India, in Egypt, in France, Mo joined Sangoma in 2019 as VP of Strategy. She played a critical role, by my side, in our successful acquisitions of Continental Building Products in 2019 and also of Criso in 2021. She has been also very instrumental of shaping the 2021 Capital Market Day of growing impact with the success that we know over the last four years. In the last three years, Maud has been CEO of our French glass operations, where she notably pioneered the world premiere of zero carbon production and thereafter the launch of the first low carbon glass under the brand name of OHAI. So please join me in welcoming Maud. And now, Frida, I leave you the floor to take us through the financial details.

Thank you, Benoit. Good morning, everyone. Let me get into the more details of our financial results of 2024. So starting with sales growth, as you can see, our organic growth are sequentially improving between H1 and H2. And we also posted the growth in the second half. All the segments were stable or growing organically in the second half, except Europe, even though it showed a sequential improvement in H2 versus H1. For the full year, the volumes were down low single digit, bang in line with what we guided the market in the beginning of last year, and the prices were slightly down given the deflationary environment that we witnessed in 2024. And when you look at the trend, the Q4 prices were virtually stable, which bodes well for the start of the year 2025. The positive structure, you can see here, the effect has actually started accelerating throughout the year with the impact of the integration of Bailey and CSR in Australia. Please note that we have a working day impact, minus one in Q1 as well as in Q2, slight negative in Q3, and plus 1% in Q4. Regarding the operating results, you see here we have delivered a record operating margin of 11.4% and a record operating income at the constant exchange rate, despite the fact that we had the volumes which were lower. All the segments delivered stable or increasing margin. The margin improvement year after year clearly shows the capability of the group to demonstrate its ability to deliver even in a challenging environment. And it also reflects the success of the strategic repositioning of the group and also the execution, the strong execution of the team. We achieved a positive price-cost spread over the full year and slightly positive in H2. thanks to our robust pricing discipline, even in a deflationary environment. Let's look at the other P&L lines below the operating income. We once again achieved a new EBITDA margin, which is a new record, the margin of 15.5%. The non-operating costs remain below our guidance of 250 million that we communicated during the capital market day. The next financial expense increased slightly, mainly due to some increase in the net debt due to the important acquisition that we did during the year. Recurring net income and recurring earnings per share also has demonstrated a record level. Please note that to reflect the true operating performance, we have excluded the impacts of hyperinflation and amortization of purchase price allocation from recurring net income. If you look at the free cash flow generation, you can see that this year we have set, once again, a new record with a €4 billion free cash flow and a conversion rate of 62%. We have further reduced one-day working capital, which means a total reduction of 17 days in the last six years. This consistent performance year after year demonstrates the cash culture which is completely ingrained throughout the organization. This also has helped to strengthen the balance sheet, and at the same time, we are able to consistently invest on the growth for the Sangamama performance. The net debt to EBITDA ratio was 1.4 times at the end of December, Taking into account the recently closed acquisition of CEMIX and FOSROC, and the net debt to EBITDA ratio will still remain at the low end of the target that we gave at the Capital Market Day, which was 1.5 times to 2 times in 2025. And I know, knowing Maud very well, she will continue to keep this financial discipline and you will see that we will have the balance sheet strong even in the future for Sangoba. Now let's look at the results by reporting segment. I'll start with Europe. Overall, we saw a strong sequential improvement in organic growth between H1 and H2, even though the new construction market remained down, thanks to the renovation market, which remained resilient. Globally, all the countries in Europe have touched the low point, including France, and we expect to continue with the sequential improvement progressively, quarter after quarter. We had positive volumes in the UK in Q4, in Germany for the last two quarters, in the Eastern European countries, and Spain and Italy throughout the year. The operating margin stood at 8.4%, a new record, reflecting the successful management of costs, including the headcount reduction, productivity improvement, price-cost spread management, the solution journey that has got a positive impact on our business, and also all the optimization of portfolio that we are doing consistently. Let's move now to Americas. North America grew with the volumes holding up well thanks to a dynamic renovation market in roofing. We are progressing well with our capacity expansions investments. We expect them to be operational by middle of the next year, middle of this year, and a progressive ramp up in the second half. In Latin America, the markets remained down over the full year, but picked up as expected in H2, mainly driven by Brazil, helped by the market share gain in the light construction market. The closing of CEMEX acquisition will further strengthen our position in Mexican market and Central America. The operating margin reached a new record of 18%. Now coming to my region, Asia Pacific, the organic growth in Asia Pacific was driven by India, where once again we delivered a market share gain and the volume growth was 10%. We continue to play a leading role in sustainable construction in India with our comprehensive and innovative offer. In China, the new construction market remains significantly depressed. However, we continue to outperform thanks to our renovation exposure and to the success of countries highly digital driven to the market and the way we serve the customers in the region. Southeast Asia recorded growth in H2O. driven by the strong momentum in Indonesia and Vietnam. Our CSR acquisition in Australia was closed on 9th July and the integration is going on very well. It delivered a good operational performance in the second half of the year in line with our expectations. Each time I go to Australia, I'm really impressed with the team, their competence, their enthusiasm, the way they engage the customers in the market, and their understanding of the customer's needs. Clearly, I see under the leadership of Paul Dalton, they are generating a good number of ideas to leverage Sangamon's strength and deliver very strong results in Australia through the CSR team. And I'm very confident that we will create value in this attractive acquisition. And the region's operating margin remains at a record level of 12.6%. Now let us look at the global customer markets. High-performance solutions saw like-for-like sales down over the full year, but with a strong sequential improvement in H2. Businesses serving global construction customers grew slightly over the full year and accelerated in H2. driven by both at-force glass-grade solutions and construction chemicals growing 3.1% life-for-life. The recently closed acquisitions of FOSROC marks the acceleration of the group's presence in construction chemicals markets, particularly in high-growth countries like India and the Middle East and Asia-Pacific. Businesses serving industry declined over the full year but stabilized in the second half with an increase in the order book at the end of 2024. Mobility sales were down slightly over the full year but gained share in high-value added models thanks to its differentiation strategy and investment in innovation. The operating margin increased slightly to 12.1%. Now to conclude, in a nutshell, you have seen in 2024, we have once again delivered a very strong financial performance. And I remain very confident that we will deliver even in 2025. Over the last six years, you have seen Sangamma has radically transformed and repositioned itself as a group which is going to continue to remain profitable, cash generating, and value creative. And this clearly a good performance, a consistent performance, is also reflected even in a difficult environment. And that's why I'm very much convinced that a lot more to come in the future. Now that I pass on the baton to Maud, who will further strengthen the group under the continued inspiring leadership of Benoit. and you will get to meet her during the roadshow with me and have a chance to interact with her. I commit myself to contribute to the exciting future of the group through my new role in Asia Pacific. As you all know, I have been in the past in the operational role, and I love to be on the ground. So I'm super thrilled to be back on the ground, be closer to the customer, and look for how Sangha Bank can differentiate and develop the accelerated profitable growth in the future. As this is my last presentation of the results, it's a very emotional moment for me, I really want to take an opportunity to thank Benoit. And I always said this quite often, that any CFO of any group can contribute only when you have a CEO who has the ability to listen. Because if the CEO is not willing to listen, the CFO can do nothing. So I had the big privilege and fortunate boss who was willing to listen, allowed me to challenge him, had the humility to have this conversation with the open mind. And that's what made a huge difference in the journey of last six years. And I know, Belua, that you will allow me to continue to do even in the future. So I want to also thank each one of you, all the investors, sell side, buy side. It has been a huge privilege because this is not something I knew. This is the first experience I had. I think you all gave me a strong support. You trusted me. I think it was a great experience. I just want to thank you, and I'm sure that I will host you one day in the region and demonstrate again and show you, showcase every good work the team is doing in the region. Thank you once again, and then I'll pass on the floor to Benoit.

Thank you, Freda. Now let me update you on our strategy. As the worldwide leader in light and sustainable construction, Saint-Gobain is stronger than ever. because strategically we are positioned on attractive growth markets, and also because operationally we have strong action plans to consistently deliver and execute very well. In all regions of the world, we see strong megatrends driving the need for sustainable construction. Energy efficiency in buildings, public and private, is supported by enhanced regulations and fiscal support in Europe, and we increasingly see a green value reflected in real estate prices. Decarbonization of construction is another strong trend, with an increased penetration of light construction methods that enables a 50% reduction in the embodied carbon and natural resource usage, and also a 20% gain in productivity. Finally, the increased frequency of extreme weather climate-related events calls for significant investments, be it in the US, in Europe, or in emerging markets. Sustainable construction just means better buildings and more resilient buildings and infrastructure. Let me now zoom on each of our markets. First, North America, which is a key growth region for us. The market in the US and in Canada is supported by significant housing shortages and structural renovation needs. We have a leadership position in North America and we have been investing over the past years to strengthen it, notably with more than 300 million euros growth capex in 2024 and new lines and plans that will start from mid 2025. In Asia and emerging markets, construction is driven by continued urbanization, expected to add roughly 2 billion urban residents by 2050, and by ambitious programs like in Egypt and Saudi Arabia with megacities in the years to come. We are reinforcing our presence in these high-growth markets, notably in India, which is the third largest contributor to the group operating profit, and where we have doubled ourselves over the last six years and added 27 new lines or plans from CapEx and acquisitions. Moving to Europe, we see a progressive recovery. For new construction, there is a pickup in housing starts and permits in some countries. Renovation as well, which represents 60% of our European sales, should benefit from rising housing transactions. Thanks to our comprehensive portfolio of solutions, we are very well positioned to resume growth in the second half of 2025 and benefit from a positive operating leverage. Besides the geographic development of our strategy, our second growth axis is construction chemicals, where we have built a global leadership with a platform representing 6.5 billion euros, more than twice what it was five years ago. We have achieved this through a combination of organic growth and successful acquisitions, starting with Criso in 2021, GCP in 2022, and continuing with the recently closed acquisitions of Cemix in January and Fosrock beginning of February. Under the leadership of Thierry Bernard, our CEO for construction chemicals, CRIZO and GCP are delivering strong synergies and have achieved a combined EBITDA of €325 million in 2024. This represents an EBITDA margin of 20%, 140 basis points above 23, on top of the more than 400 basis points improvement we have delivered the previous year. The integration of FOSROC will unlock significant synergies as well with its strong brand, also complementary geographical footprint and comprehensive portfolio of technologies and applications that will reinforce our offerings, particularly in the infrastructure space. Let's hear now directly from Thierry Bernard and Rob Bonici, the CEO of FOSROC, who is reporting to Thierry.

It is with great pleasure that I welcome the FOSROC teams to Saint-Gobain. Fast Rock is a strong, high-performing business that will bring great value to our group. We have built a global platform in construction chemicals with a balanced exposure to both fast-growing regions like India and the Middle East, where growth will be driven by population increase and urbanization, and to mature countries where growth will come from innovation and sustainability. In addition to reinforcing our established concrete admixtures and cement additive offerings, FOSROC significantly complements our product range in segments such as waterproofing, adhesives and sealants, concrete repairs and flooring. The integration has already started under my supervision and will be carried out by the same team with the same methodology and energy that made the entry of Criso into the group and the combination with GCP in 2022 such a great success. With Fosrock, we will become an even better partner for our customers and I'm very confident that we will create a lot of value for our shareholders. we really are stronger together. And now, I'm pleased to introduce Rob Bonici, FOSROC Chief Executive Officer.

Good morning, everyone. My name is Rob Bonici, and I'm the Chief Executive Officer of FOSROC. I've been in the construction chemicals industry for 23 years, spending the last decade here at FOSROC. I joined the executive committee in 2015 leading global sales and marketing before expanding to R&D, operations and M&A. Fosrock is a global leader in construction chemicals built on a foundation of technical expertise, innovation and very strong customer relationships. Our specification-driven approach means we work closely with engineers, architects and contractors to develop tailored solutions that meet the most demanding of project requirements. It's these expertise that have made us a trusted partner in major infrastructure projects where performance, durability and long-term sustainability are critical. FOSROC's specification-driven expertise and technical capabilities are completely aligned with Saint-Gobain's vision as the worldwide leader in light and sustainable construction. And that's why joining Saint-Gobain represents such an exciting opportunity. Together, we will unlock new growth opportunities.

Thank you Thierry, thank you Rob, and welcome again to all the FOSROC teams within Saint-Gobain. Acquisitions and divestitures are part of a continuous journey to optimize our profile for strong, profitable growth. We have a disciplined capital allocation policy, and since the end of 2018, we have rotated around 40% of our turnover and will continue to be active in acquisitions and divestitures as part of our value creation focus. Our recent acquisitions are performing well, notably in Canada, where we have built a comprehensive offer with the acquisition of KECAN, Building Products of Canada, and Belay, which are running at a combined EBITDA margin of 19%. And in Australia as well, where we have established a leadership position with the acquisition of CSR, the integration of CSR is going smoothly with synergies delivering as planned, and we have delivered an excellent EBITDA margin of 18.1% in 2024. Thanks to our targeted CAPEX and also M&A in high-growth profitable regions, more than two-thirds of our operating profit now comes from North America, Asia, and emerging countries. So our success is due to the strategic decisions I just highlighted and that we have made in terms of geographies and also in terms of attractive segments, such as construction chemicals. They are also linked and based on our powerful operating model. Our focus on execution is what allows us to deliver consistently. We have a strong country-led organization which is well adapted to our local business model that has demonstrated its capacity to navigate and overcome various challenges and economic environment. Our country CEOs own their P&L. They are fully accountable and empowered to take proactive operational action to deliver profitable growth. They also leverage the full portfolio of Saint-Gobain solutions in their country in order to drive cross-selling opportunities and increase their share of wallet with our customers. The solution approach is a key differentiating factor for Saint-Gobain. Our comprehensive range for all construction and building types is second to none. I would like us to hear directly from Christian Bakou, our VP Marketing and Development, and Thierry Fournier, our CEO for South Europe, Middle East, and Africa on the solutions.

Hello, I'm Christian Wackow, Vice President of Marketing and Development at Sankuba. Our marketing team plays a crucial role in structuring the group's offering and providing tools and methodology to bring those solutions to the market effectively. With a global perspective, we share best practices, identify trends, and support countries in rolling out Saint-Gobain's offer while ensuring local market alignment. At Saint-Gobain, we focus on addressing specific customer pain points to deliver impactful performance. With our solutions-based approach, we go beyond individual products and create comprehensive solutions for specific market segments such as schools, hospitals or office buildings. This is one of our key unique selling propositions. Combining deep expertise, a wide product offering and complementary services to create differentiations and competitive advantage.

Hello, I am Thierry Fournier, Senior Vice President, CEO, Southern Europe, Middle East and Africa. Indeed, Saint-Gobain offers a full range of solutions for all building types, positioning us as a one-stop shop for our clients. Our breadth of solutions is unparalleled in the industry. Having all our solutions in one country, managed by a single local manager, allows us to adapt to our clients' needs. Let me highlight two standout projects that show the power of Saint-Gobain Solutions' approach. First, in France, we contributed to Paris-Saclay Hospital project. Spining 49,000 square meters with over 480 beds, this hospital focuses on patient and staff well-being, innovation in the service of care, and excellence of care. For this project, we provided a range of Saint-Gobain solutions, including multiple placebo solutions, fire safety glasses, and ceilings. Another example is the Red Sea project in Saudi Arabia. For this tourism megaproject, part of Vision 2030 of the Kingdom, we provided a complete solution including insulation, plasterboard, ceiling solutions, and construction chemicals for the Shea Bala resort. We are just beginning our solution journey, but we are already seeing its clear potential, improved product mix, market share gains, and overall, acceleration of Saint-Gobain's growth in Southern Europe, Middle East, and Africa region. Thank you.

Thank you, Christian. Thank you, Thierry. As you have heard, this solution approach allows us to improve our product mix, increase our share of wallet with customers and outperform the market altogether. Digitalization is also key to our solutions approach across the value chain, be it a door-to-door logistic setup that we have developed in Vietnam over the last three, four years, a digital ordering platform in Australia at CSR, or simulation software for craftsmen in France, which allows us to outperform the renovation market. Our differentiated solutions also benefit from our commitment to innovation, which I will illustrate with two examples. GlassRock X that brings superior performance thanks to its at-force glass grid and which has been launched successfully in more than 80 countries and above now 200 million euros in sales just in the last few years. Pre-proof liquid sealant is a complementary solution to GCP pre-proof waterproofing membrane that brings significant productivity gains to our customers. All this strategy that I presented to you is bringing attractive returns to our shareholders. In 2024, total capital return to shareholders from dividends and share buybacks amounted to 1.5 billion euros. Since 2021, dividend per share has increased by 16% per year, and we have finished our five-year, €2 billion share buyback programme in 2024, one year ahead of plan. In 2025, we planned a dividend of €2.2 per share, up 5%, and we have announced a new share buyback commitment of €400 million in 2025. Now let me give you the outlook for 2025. In a macroeconomic environment that remains contrasted, Saint-Gobain will continue to demonstrate a very strong operational performance in 2025. Assuming no major disruption linked to geopolitics, we expect the following trends in the different segments. Stabilization in Europe, with a gradual recovery country by country expected in the second half. construction to maintain a good level of activity in the Americas, strong outlook in Asia-Pacific, and for high-performance solutions, dynamic growth in construction chemicals, mobility to hold firm thanks to a strong value-added solution approach, and a gradual recovery in growth expected for most industrial markets. We are expecting an operating margin of more than 11% in 2025, which is above the initial range of our strategic plan growth and impact. Coming back to our strategic plan, Grow and Impact, you can see here that we have delivered on all our Grow and Impact financial objectives that we set out at the Capital Market Day in 2021. I'm very happy to invite you to our next Capital Market Day that will take place on October the 6th of 2025, where we will set up our group ambition for the next years. This will be an opportunity to demonstrate how we will continue to outperform leveraging further the very strong foundations that we have built over the past years. A clear strategic vision on light and sustainable construction worldwide leadership, our solutions approach. our value-accretive capital allocation, and our commitment to strong shareholder returns. So I look forward to unveiling the group's new ambition on October 6th. In the meantime, as you have heard from Shredda, I am, we are very confident that 2025 will be another strong year for Saint-Gobain based on the strong strategic alignment that we have created, very powerful, and also excellent operational execution. Thank you, and now let's turn to your questions. We will start, as always, with the questions in the room, on the left, and then we'll go with you. Please.

Hello, thank you for taking my question. The first question is not really a question, it's a message for Shredda. I wish you good luck for your new position, also good luck to Maud, and maybe a question to you. Why this move? Is it maybe a new opportunity, a new challenge for you? Why this move to Maybe a second question on the guidance. Regarding your message of construction cycle recovery, it seems to be a bit cautious. So could we have your assumptions in terms of price-cost spread and volumes?

So you're saying in the new job, the opportunity and the challenges? Look, there are plenty of opportunities. I can just spend the whole day because it's a region which is growing, booming. It's a region which is growing with the population, and you know that our business is directly linked with the population growth. And Sangoban is bringing differentiated solution in this market. It's shaping the market. I mean, there are a lot of technologies, a lot of solutions which didn't exist in the past, and in the last few years, we have made a big starting point there. So, you know, we have a strong brand recognition. We have a good route to the market. We have a solution which is getting more and more accepted, and we are the one who's seen as a leader in the green and sustainable light and sustainable construction in the market in the region. And I can tell you, I mean, the CSR is another good addition to the Sangamon's portfolio. It's a continent. It's a fantastic continent. And I think, you know, when you look at the team, the enthusiasm, the knowledge that they have, the rigor with which they work, all the time, every time I go, I come back with a very positive feeling. I'm only excited. I don't see this as a challenge. Benoit nicely said, no pressure, but I love pressure because it's fun. I think we need to keep ourselves on our toes and we will continue to do our best. I think that's the approach Sangamon took in the last six years. Each time we faced with the challenges, we just said, okay, what is it that in our control? How are we going to do it differently? And just deal things which are under control and not get bogged down with things which are not under control. I think that's an approach I'll take even in the future.

Thank you, Shredda. And maybe I will give you a bit of color around the guidance on volume and price, and maybe also on the margin, if it's part of your question. So on volumes, we expect volumes overall to be flattish to slightly positive for the full year of 2025 at the group level. We expect H1 2025 to be slightly negative, particularly in Q1. Schroeder mentioned also the working day impact because of Europe and mainly France. And we expect growth in H2 with a progressive recovery in Europe. As always, we will keep a positive price-cost spread and prices to be slightly positive as well. And then on the margin side for 2025, we are always very ambitious on the margin, we will remain very disciplined on execution, be it the price-cost spread I just mentioned, be it all the productivity actions, the solution journey to improve the mix. And I'm happy to say that for the last year of our Capital Market Day, the floor is what used to be the ceiling when we started the journey. So I think it's a real step up in the consistency and the performance and the ambition of Saint-Gobain. And you know, as always, we'll do the maximum. Second question from ..

Yes, good morning. Yes, inquiry from on-field investment research. So a couple of questions. First, on the capital allocation, you've done a very good job of building a leading position in concrete admixture and cement additives. I think your team started to mention entering the waterproofing, adhesing and sealant, concrete repair and flooring markets. My question would be what kind of opportunity do you see in this space in waterproofing, adhesives, sealants? Is it something that we could see where we could see like a substantial growth in the next five years organically and through acquisition? And then the second question on your investments. So I think you invested a lot in a few plants in the U.S., What kind of return do you expect on those investments? And what would be very helpful is to get a sense of what kind of additional operating income do you expect on a full year basis for all these plants in roofing and plasterboard?

so yes construction chemical as you know it's 100 billion euros market from time fixing renders waterproofing concrete repair flooring additives signatures that you mentioned so chriso was clearly the specialist now with gcp we are the number one on cement additives worldwide weber historically was the worldwide leader and we are the worldwide leader on type fixing so we have the full range We have made quite significant acquisitions on waterproofing already, not as big as the Criso GCP that you mentioned, but Isomax, for instance, in Australia, was waterproofing. We have done Brasprefer two years ago in Brazil. So waterproofing is indeed a segment that we have invested, and Fosrock is very strong on waterproofing. GCP, you may remember that GCP had also a lot of waterproofing envelopes, vapor barriers, ice and water shield for roofing so indeed the construction chemical space is the full range and we are building both capacities we invest on new plants and also technologies across the board it's a very good question that we'll address in depth with thierry bernard the capital market date to give you the color of what we have done and the richness of our portfolio and of course the expectation and the ambition going forward. But yes, we are investing the full scope across the board of construction chemicals. It's part of what Thierry presented in November 23, when we had the investor day at CERMES, at the CRIZO R&D and main plant in France, if you remember well, we had this presentation on construction chemicals. In the US, some plants are going to start progressively from mid 2025. So it's mainly roofing and plasterboard. Roofing, we are sold out. And we have been sold out for some time. We are sold out at the beginning of the year. We increase prices on roofing as we speak. So it's a strong momentum. We need capacity. The kind of increment of capacity in roofing is in the 2% to 3% range. So it's not massive, but it's something that we need to serve well some of the markets. And we are getting share a bit in some segments of roofing. Clusterboard, the second line of Palatka in Florida, we have a unique position in the southeast of the US, which is a growing region. So it's also an addition that we absolutely need. And overall, we have more than 20% return on those investments in terms of capex. It's a bit too early to tell you because it's not going to be visible in 2025, the full operating profit that we'll add because the plants are going to start around the summer. So progressively, we will load the plant, but we need those capacities to follow up the growth of the market in North America. So it will be good additions for both plasterboard and roofing.

Maybe a follow-up question on your guidance. I think there is a little bit of concern among investors when you see energy price rising, gas pricing rising in Europe. What kind of hedging do you have on gas and electricity? And also, when you look at the momentum for pricing, I think it's been quite good throughout 2024, where you're ending up the year with relatively stable pricing. Do you see some price increases in 2025 when we look at the free?

OK.

So, on the hedging, you know, it's something which we have come back to the old policy that we do it on an average of 50%. That's nothing specific we did. Only the exception is during the COVID and the energy crisis that we had, we made such an exception. But it's no business as usual. We continue to cover a part of it in a very systematic manner.

And on pricing, yes, we have multiple. You have seen that the price evolution has been improving quarter after quarter in 2024. And at the beginning of the year, we have announced in multiple geographies price increases, be it in the U.S. I mentioned roofing. We have announced also some price increase later on for gypsum in the U.S. We have multiple price increase in Europe. So, yes, there has been a bit more inflationary growth. environment at the beginning of the year so we will continue to push for a price increase in different geographies and different segments thank you is there another question in the room if not we will go to the first question from elodie hall from jp morgan elodie please go ahead

Yes. Hi. Good morning, everyone. And congratulations to Trindade again on your journey at Saint-Gobain and your next adventure. And we will miss you, obviously. So my first question is on your guidance again, but just to have your view on the impact from acquisitions that you have announced and so the contribution that you'd expect already on revenue and operating profit for 2025, as well as the effects, expectations that you have at this stage. And then second, as volume starts to recover, as you said, from H2 and going forward, if you can help us quantify your expectation on impact on margins going forward. And if I can throw in a last question, A topical one, what would be your exposure to Ukraine-Russia ceasefire, so basically recovery, and if there is any concerns to have on tariffs from Trump. Thanks very much.

I did not understand your last question, our exposure to Ukraine and what to expect.

So Ukraine and then tariffs impact potential.

Yeah, so LRD on acquisitions, we expect around 3% positive impact on the sales. And in terms of profit, it should be around 200 million euro addition in 2025. And as you know that, the integration is going on well.

You want to mention on the volume? So we expect at the group level, we expect volume to improve in the second half. Of course, as we told you several times, the impact on operating leverage will be more in Europe when volumes improve gradually in the second half, country by country, because we have trust in all the countries, including France in the fourth quarter. And Cheddar mentioned to you that we have volume growth in q4 in the uk and two quarters already in germany so the margin impact on operating leverage coming from volume will be more europe than other regions of the world when you see the margin that we have in north america you know we are already at a very healthy margin so we don't expect a significant leverage going forward

And you just have to keep in mind that there is a comparison-based effect, particularly in Europe, in the first half. And also, we have, as I mentioned, the working day effect also, the negative. So you should expect that Q2 will be, particularly in Europe and in France, will be ..

On the third question, Elodie, Ukraine and then Tarif. Ukraine, so we have a very small presence in the west part of Ukraine, so I don't think we can expect anything in the very short term. Of course, there will be some activity going forward, and we are well positioned, notably from Poland, to service Ukraine. the polish manager she is taking care of ukraine on the first order of magnitude we could expect on the energy side if something positive happens on the conflict that could release a bit of price pressure on energy so i think that would be the first order of magnitude at least on the short term Going forward, there could be more activity indeed to rebuild Ukraine. But I think it's too early to say, and we see that it's still a bit wide expectation or wide scenarios on Ukraine. So I would not bang on that for 2025. On tariff, as you know, Saint-Gobain, maybe we are not putting that forward enough. But Saint-Gobain, both from a business standpoint, we are on local construction markets. And from a governance standpoint, we are organized by country, is very strong in the geopolitical uncertainty, the deglobalization of the world of today. As you know, we have 125 plants in the U.S. They service the U.S. We have 37 plants in Canada. We are number one in the U.S., number one in Canada. We service Canada. We have a Mexican manager in Mexico. So we are well positioned. Our products don't travel. The customers are local. So I'm not worried about this kind of impact. It's true in North America, but it's true also elsewhere. So I don't expect that to be significant. For me, one question that the US administration has not yet landed, and maybe you have some questions on the geopolitics, the workforce impact on the US, if they are massive deportation, of workers that could have impact across the U.S. economy. We don't see that. I think it's too early to tell, but this should land. But the workforce impact, of course, on the construction infrastructure for the companies which are exposed to infrastructure or building activity, that's something that we have to watch. So far, there is no impact and we have a good start of the year in North America, but And that's, I think, even more important than anything else, because we are local and products don't travel. So nothing negative to expect.

Thanks very much. And I had just a question on FX in expectations for 25 as well.

minuses, so that's where we see. At this point of time, you know, it's very difficult to always predict, but when we look at the real current situation, that's how I look at it.

Okay, thanks very much. Next question is from Ephraim Ravi from Citigroup.

Thank you. Sort of two questions. Firstly, on CSR, I mean, the 18% margin, EBITDA margin that you've said, I mean, from memory, CSR used to make about 16% EBITDA margin and seems like a fairly big jump this year. I mean, is there a change in scope in the way you're kind of reporting CSRI? Is the aluminum business already excluded or is it, you know, as is? as was before. And again, this is the kind of margins you would expect in that business going forward. That's the first one.

Yes, sir. What we reported was 17.7% and they are at 18.1%. So they are slightly better than what we had communicated to the market when we made the announcement.

You had a second question, Efrem, or?

Yeah, on the second question, I mean, if you look at the margin improvement in the businesses that you've recently acquired, like GCP, etc., I mean, pretty much that accounts for more than 100% of the earnings growth over the last year or even the last two years. So, I mean, is there kind of a story that the rest of the businesses are still under pressure, that the legacy Gibson World Board and distribution businesses, while it's kind of really the acquisitions that are really kind of driving the margin growth that we're seeing right now in Sangoba?

clearly see that even in europe where the markets and the environment has been very challenging so it had a negative impact on volumes and the negative impact on absolute profit to improve the margin in europe so again as schreder mentioned all the segments of singapore in 24 improved stabilized or improved so i think it's a collective success so yes all the businesses are very active on driving the value creation country by country and the improvement of the margin in terms of mass of profit we have seen that in europe the absolute amount of profit dropped from the year before and that's something gradually that we will recover going forward with the gradual recovery of europe that we expect starting in the second half of 2025. Thank you. Next question is from from HSBC.

Please go ahead.

Hi. Good morning, gents. I have two as well. The first one is on the margin side. In Asia Pacific, that margin came at 12.6, which is healthy. But when I look at your previous target of having 13 to 15% margin in that market, so the question is, Is there anything which you are still lacking there or you need to do a little more in the portfolio optimization in that business to kind of bring that back towards mid-teen margin? And the second one is similar on HBS, the high performance, and there as well you are probably undersuiting your target there. So is there anything, any of that, like the mobility business, which is underperforming at this point in time, either auto glass or glass business, where you probably need some portfolio optimization to help it improve it?

So you take your next region, Shredda, and I take HPS? SHREDA CHOPRADHARANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANAN So I remain quite confident. And there is no reason in Asia I have no intention to divest any business because it's all businesses, good businesses, and continue to grow. So we are looking, I'm going to invest and grow. That's what the mandate with which I'm going.

Thank you. And on HPS, the margin improves slightly in 2024 versus 2023. We mentioned a few times already that one business that suffered last year is AtForce. AtForce is impacted more than others by new construction in Europe. So that business has been gradually improving by the end of the year, but suffered overall during the year 2024. We have seen a nice evolution over the years of mobility, so improving with a lot of innovation, value-add type of strategy. And their business is exposed to industrial markets, stabilized during the year, and improved their order book in the last quarter of 2024. So I'm confident that we will see further improvement on those overall segments in 2025, because the dynamic is positive. And of course, within HPS, we'll keep a strong dynamic in our construction chemicals. So the trend is positive, and we have seen it in the second half versus the first half. In the last quarter, you see it also in the price and volume details of HPS. So it bodes well for an evolution in 2025. Next question. Just a second question.

Sorry. Go ahead.

Go ahead.

Now, I'm just asking about the Asia segment again. Sorry, Sridhar, for coming back on that. Given Sridhar's enthusiasm and how you are kind of investing in the last couple of years, it sounds like the Asia is going to be a much bigger pie of the open group than what it is right now. Obviously, it started with 4%, now it's 6%, it will soon be 8%. But is it easily conceivable in the next three to five years that the A share will become somewhere between mid-teen to around 20% of the overall group sales?

all his ambition during the capital market let me get into the job and keep in mind that we have a large portion of high-performance solutions which is linked to asia and this is why again when you look at the operating profit of the group today all together across all segments we have 34 in north america 34 in asia and emerging markets you know and i mentioned it that india is number three in the profit pool of sangram so yes asia is much broader and bigger than just the regional exposure that we show to you in the segment of asia pacific you don't have the full effect of csr because we have only a bit less than six months in 2024 but yes we have a strong ambition in asia pacific across all segments of the group and freda again will highlight that as part of our ambition for the next years for asia pacific but it's the journey and the mandate and the ambition that freda will land for us in asia pacific next thank you all the best thank you very much

Good morning, everybody. I have two questions, if I may. The first one is regarding M&A activity. Can you talk about the pipeline of potential acquisitions? And in particular, are you still looking at more acquisition in the construction chemical space? That's my first question. And my second question is on your recent acquisition of Cemix. Can you explain why you're going to include Cemix in the Americas region, while all the other construction chemicals assets are in the HPS division? I thought you were creating some sort of global entity for construction chemicals. And slightly related to this business, if there were tariffs between Mexico and the U.S., would there be a risk in terms of the synergies between Cemix and, I guess, GCP? Thank you.

Thank you. And also, we continue to have a strong activity in terms of M&A. You have heard also from Sreda that we have a solid balance sheet, a bit below 1.5 in 2024, slightly above, but in the low range of 1.5 to 2. That is the range that we gave four years ago at the Capital Market Day. Of course, we want to keep a very solid balance sheet. Yes, we are active on geographical development and also construction chemicals. One example that I didn't highlight, but it was on my slide, Killwater in the UK that we closed in December is a nice addition also to overall our exposure on construction chemicals. But it's not only construction chemicals. Gypsum is a fantastic business that we grow nicely with the very high margin altogether. So roofing, we grew in Canada on top of the US, so we have multiple avenues for growth on Saint-Gobain. Our worldwide leadership on light and sustainable construction, it's on residential segments, ceilings, roofing, glazing, facades, flooring, partitions, all these, plus non-residential, plus infrastructure. So this is also what we will highlight at the Capital Market Day, what is the ambition across those different segments residential, new and renovation, non-residential and infrastructure. CEMIX, no, there is no impact from the tariff because CEMIX is selling very little to the US. They have more presence in different countries of Central America, like Guatemala, like Ecuador. So it's more Mexico plus Central America than anything else. It's part of the tile fixing, waterproofing. We had already a business in Mexico, impact waterproofing, that has been reported in the Latin America, America's region, and this is why at this stage we put CEMIX in this range. But again, this is something that we highlight the global picture of construction chemical during the capital market day in October, because indeed, like we did for FOSROC, it's one group now on all the FOSROC regions. From Weber, GCP, Criso, Fosrock, it's one management. So India, Middle East, Asia, all these came under one management to make sure that we maximize the synergy of all those businesses across those regions. And of course, this is something we are thinking of going forward.

Thank you very much.

Next question is from Seda from Morgan Stanley.

Thanks very much. Hi, gentlemen. I've just got a question on your intention for M&A in 2025. This, or 24, you spent over $3 billion on acquisitions. It's a big number for the business. If I look at sort of a normalized free cash flow level of the business after the growth capex for the two years, we're sort of run rating at about $3 billion. And then you're paying, you know, a little bit more than a billion in the dividend. And then you've got your new buyback of 400 million euros. So, you know, round numbers that leaving the business with 1.5 billion of sort of unaccounted for cash in 2025, which is really quite a big step down from the level of spend in 24. And I know you've got balance sheet capacity because, you know, appropriate level of gearing and all, but I just like to, year or how you're thinking about the cadence of M&A in 25? Should we expect another very large year in spend like we had in 24? Or is this more back to sort of the more normalized level of spend of maybe one to one and a half billion? So that's the first question. And maybe you can talk about the landscape for M&A, et cetera. And then the other question is just on the cash flow statements. I know you defined pre-cash flow before growth capex and before a lot of other cash items. But if we look at the sort of more clean reported cash flow statement, then the net cash from operating activities after capacity investments and after IFRS 16, that cash actually declined in 24 relative to 23. And there's some quite chunky numbers around other operating cash items and sort of deferred tax changes and provisions and liabilities, et cetera, which seem to explain the delta. So I'd just like to understand what those items are. And while they might not be operating cash items, they are a cash call on the business. So if you could give us a little bit of

clarity on how to think about those numbers into 24. thank you thank you so first i will say on acquisitions you know as i mentioned we are super concentrated on quality of execution i think what we demonstrated over the last six years is that we have created a lot of value to our acquisitions. Continental was year two, Crizo was year two, and you have seen the improvement of GCP. So before letting Shredda mention about the capacity of the group in terms of cash, I can tell you that we are very concentrated on a good, well-documented synergies and delivery on the acquisitions that we have made in the last year.

Yes, so Sridhar, some of the observations are very valid. First is when you look at the 2025, if you're trying to see where we are going to lead in terms of debt, You rightly said the shareholder return is more, you know, slightly above 1.5 billion. That's where I'm seeing, you know, 1.5 billion, including the share buyback. Then you have the growth capex close to a billion. Then you have, don't forget that we have to be paid in the beginning of the year, CEMEX and FOSROC, which again is around 2 billion. So all that if you add up, it will be slightly, the debt should slightly go up in 2025. Second point on your clean cash flow. First is, yes, there are certain one-off implications which are non-operational, for example. We made a conscious decision to externalize certain pensions, particularly in France, to reduce the volatility on the provisions that we have in pension. So some of these are tactical moves that we take. Again, it will all have an impact on the positive impact in the future cash flow. So it's one-off decision that we took. Second is we have this year acquisition related costs. As you rightly said, yes, we did certain important acquisitions in this year. So there are certain costs related to acquisition. Again, this is one-off. And particularly in CSR, we had an element of stamp duty which was known during due diligence. This is something which is law. We need to do it. And it also has an advantage because when you re-evaluate your assets, particularly the land, you have to pay the stamp duty, but then you don't have to have the tax implication when you sell the land. So you will see that benefit, positive benefit, in the coming years. So, yes, it is one-off, and that's why it doesn't make sense to put it in the operational cash flow.

Thank you. Perfect. Thank you. As always, I mentioned that we are extremely focused on the quality of integration and synergies. We have heard from Rob Bonici and Thierry Bernard have been working together for the last six months on preparing all the synergies, IT, purchasing, organization, supply, etc. So that's extremely important and second we are also very disciplined in terms of capital allocation in terms of strategic allocation towards geographies high growth and construction chemical and executing well so we'll keep going forward this discipline and we'll continue also to create value with many so yes there is acquisition there is also some cash coming from diversity here so you have to think of the net of acquisitions and diversity If I take now, there is no more question on the line, so I take the question on the internet and I will read them so that we can answer. So question from Paul Roger from BNP Paribas exam. Portfolio recycling has structurally added 250 basis points to the margin. What is this figure now that you have done more? I mean, it's around the same. So I think, Paul, you have already landed at the right point. figure around 250 basis points if i'm correct and we'll have some small impact positive impact of fast rock and semi in 2035. second question from paul is several companies in the sector have taken action to crystallize u.s value via spins minority listings etc is this something sang about with every consider the answer is no we have a lot of synergies in terms of development, in terms of innovation, in terms of manufacturing across the world. So, no, I don't want to lose those synergies. When you think of GCP, for instance, the waterproofing synergies that we have around the world with roofing in the US, with other business segments in Latin America or in Europe or in the Middle East, that's something I don't want to lose. And the worldwide leadership of the group and the thought leadership on sustainable construction, you know, when we travel to the U.S., when we meet customers, when we go to Europe, Middle East, Asia, all this is part of one global leadership, and that makes the power of the group. So, no, I don't want to contemplate this kind of evolution. A question from Jeremy Gosch from Société Générale. question could be for you. Our costs are around 39 billion euros, of which 9.5 of personal expense. For the other 30, could you give us a split from materials, energy, logistics, fixed and maintenance costs? How much of personal costs and other OPEX are fixed? I think there is a big miss, which is the distribution part where we buy and resell. So I think that may be a question that should be taken offline because I think we are a bit far off from the

Yeah, but other than that, the big tickets are the raw material and energy is $12 billion. And then you have the salaries and the fixed cost is around $17 billion. And I said in the past always that this $17 billion, one third of the $17 billion is semi-variable. So that's how that analysis reflects.

Another question from Societe Generale. You reached 11% in 2023. 2024 was above. In H1, H2 still around 11%. Any conservatism into guidance of more than 11% margin? What are the different moving parts? And how should we expect the margin to develop over the four quarters? I think I mentioned on the margin guidance that first, we stay ambitious. That has been what we did together over the last years. We'll continue to be disciplined, of course, on all the cost aspects, be it productivity, proactive actions on headcount, like we did In Europe, the price-cost spread, and I'm happy to finish the growth and impact period with what used to be the ceiling being now the floor, not because we are in big materials that we transform ceiling as floor, but it's part of the journey over the last five years. And the different moving parts, I can tell you that price-volume is always... a trade-off, an intelligent trade-off. We mentioned that the price-cost trade will be slightly positive. We are confident in Europe that we have reached the low point in all our main markets. Acquisitions, Schrader just mentioned, that it should add a bit on the margin side. There are plus and minuses on the freight, but again, we are ambitious on the margin, and this is how we will drive the group going forward. question again on social direction trends in pricing and volumes in January, February. What are your expectations for the full year 2025? I don't comment specifically on January, February. It's in line with our expectations, so nothing special to report. I think I mentioned that we have multiple pricing actions at the beginning of the year in multiple geographies. We are doing well and strong on rushing, for instance, in North America.

And we remain confident to deliver price-cost spread positive. Of course, it will be a slight positive in 2025, but yes, positive.

And the expectation for the full year 2025, I think I told you that we expect, you know, to slight positive volumes for the full year 2025 at the group level. And I mentioned to you, you know, the H1, H2 impact, notably because of Europe progressive recovery moving into Europe in the second half. question from kepler reasons to be cautious supporting margin guidance in 25 is the uncertainties related to the escalating trade war i think we answered already that question of the guidance and the tariff i mentioned to you that we are local in different local markets so and the very important point on construction markets is that beat renovation in europe be it new construction in North America or, of course, in Asia and emerging markets, there is a big need for construction activity. I mentioned the 3.5 million shortage of housing in the U.S. It's bipartisan in the U.S., the 5 million homes that need to be built in Canada between now and 2030. So it's true, of course, with the urbanization in Vietnam, in Indonesia, in Africa, In India, of course, the shortage that we have on new built across different countries in Europe, but the big need of renovation and the green shoots that we mentioned to you on the different countries of Europe.

what is the reason again question from kepler for changing the calculation method for recurring net income it's a very simple i mean we have always made an effort to give you the true performance because it's important to not to have any numbers which is not easy to read so having something like hyperinflation makes no you know it becomes difficult to read the number and the performance So we did it with a good intention and all the details are given to you. So you have the numbers. I think it's much more logical in my view.

Maybe before I finish on the internet, there are now questions back on the call. So Gregor from UBS and then Harry from Barenberg. Gregor, you want to start?

Thank you. Yes. So my question is really just coming back on the price cost and I guess the fixed cost management. So I think just to be clear, I think you've always sort of talked price cost purely on sort of unit pricing versus unit variable cost. And then obviously you've got fixed cost inflation, which I think historically kind of offset with efficiency. So I just want to double check that's your thinking here as well. So in other words, the way we should think about it, price cost drops to the bottom line, volumes flat up, you said, the M&A on top, and then the fixed cost is sort of taken care of through efficiencies. Is that fair? Yeah.

We are very confident to continue to work on operational efficiencies. You have seen it in the past. I think the world-class manufacturing is something which is completely ingrained in the organization, and we are confident, Gregor.

Thank you.

Harry, you want to jump on the next question, and then I go back to internet?

Yeah, good morning. Just coming back on volumes, you talked about an expectation of I think is that volumes turning positive in the second half of the year? And then in answer to a separate question, Shred, I was talking about the 3% positive effect from acquisitions. Just to be clear, when you're talking about volume growth in the second half of the year, is that on an organic basis? And then a separate but associated one would be if I look at the Q4 volume effect, it didn't really show much improvement on Q3. So I guess the question is, Are you seeing real improvements coming through in Europe or is this more an opinion you're taking on the trajectory for 2025? Thank you.

Of course, when we mention your role assumption on volumes it's like for like it's true organic growth point number one for 25 and point number two on 24 there is an improvement on q4 versus q3 when you separate the working day impact that was almost plus two percent in q3 yeah so if you take that out we are improving in q4 versus q3 clearly and you can see that across multiple segments and should have highlighted multiple countries in europe where we have improved are bottomed in already Q3 and improving Germany, UK, bottoming up out, sorry, in Q4 in France. So, yes, it's all light for light. And last year, quarter by quarter, we had exactly the scenario that we predicted at the beginning of the year with sequential improvement and low single digits, volume down for the full year. Okay, very clear. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Back to the question. We are on Tobias Werner from Stifel. Construction chemical business is now sizable and compares very favorably with its global peers. Thank you, Tobias. We did not make sense to set it out separately in your reporting across various segments, both in terms of sales and operating income. As I said, I think we will give you More color on construction chemicals overall at the capital market day. We highlighted already quite a lot of touch points. The growth we had on construction chemicals, 3.1% in the second half. slightly below that for the full year, but a very good momentum and also the margin. So to make sure that we give you what we need to report in terms of delivering well on the synergies. But yes, it's a sizable segment. There are also very attractive segments on multiple other areas, be it insulation, roofing, gypsum, and the goal on all the solutions of Saint-Gobain and the depth and the richness and how we move on on our solution journey. You heard it from Thierry Bernard, we are at the beginning of this solution journey. how does it improve the mix the pricing power the share of wallet within sangoma across the board we will show that in depth that will be the main topic of the capital market day of october Another question from Tobias. HPS did well in terms of maintaining its margins, especially in the second half of 2024. How did your glass business do within this in terms of margins? We do well in glass. If I take Brazil, Mexico with a nice evolution, India in the full year of 2024, even improving in the second half. in Latin America with the recovery of Brazil we have been impacted in Europe by the drop of volumes clearly in glass like in other segments we are increasing the prices as we speak we have announced multiple price increase across Europe in 2025 keeping in mind that there is still a bit of overcapacity on glass in Europe, even though, when I look at what has been announced by various competitors, I think we have five float glass that have been put down, shut down in Europe. We have done one in Germany. If I'm correct, there is one down has been announced in belgium one in spain one in italy and another one in germany so all together there is still a bit of over capacity but we have announced and we are very committed to price increase significantly for glass to improve they are profitable in glass in europe but to improve the profitability going forward with the recovery of volumes going forward in europe and also in glass which has been an important journey over the years is the mix we have more and more added value products in glass and we are number one for instance on what we call cool light the solar control and facet which is an important business for us where we have also solutions of somewhere so not only the pricing of raw glass but also of course the mix is extremely important for us going forward on glass And I think the last question from Tobias, where do you see the structural margin improvement in 24 and 25 on a pro forma basis? I think it's a complex one. It's part of what we have encapsulated in our margin guidance, Tobias. And as always, we will do our best going forward. A question from Pierre-Rousseau Barclays, one region where margin cleaning is not yet the floor is europe what are the levers to increase margins in europe well two things of course the first order of magnitude is recovery of activity in europe and as i said we have green shoots so we have stabilized that doesn't mean that you know we will have positive volumes in europe in the first half because we have stabilized below the level of the first half of 24 so it's only in the second half of 25 that we will start to see this gradual recovery so that's the first parameter of course the second is this journey on solutions all the richness of the mix the pricing power is exactly what helped us to improve the margin in 24 despite the challenging environment and the last piece is continue we have been extremely committed and i would like to congratulate and thanks the teams in europe for productivity actions headcount reduction proactive decisions we have been doing a lot of that across europe in a tough market environment over the last two years and this is the way we also protected our margin on the cost side so we'll continue to work hard on the productivity in europe and of course we will also reset and refresh the ambition for all the segments at the capital market Another question from Pierre so could you comment on distribution specifically what our current margin levels are just your objective, so we don't report specifically distribution margin, because they are part of the French margin, the Nordic margin. Based on, as you know, we have a corridor of 6% to 7% operating margin for those businesses in a very difficult environment. Like I mentioned to you last year for the 23 performance in the Nordics, based on the very difficult, challenging environment in Europe, in those two countries today, we are a bit below this corridor. But I'm very confident that we have the structural quality of the business well integrated into as a country approach across the full value chain to come back to this type of very healthy margin. And I can tell you also that based on what has been reported segment by segment, we are clearly outperforming in the Nordics and in France, including on those different business segments. A question from Laurent Rinacher. Congrats to Schrader. I think we should stop there. Many gas storages seem to be filled at a very low level in Europe, which could put prices up. What is your take? Schrader.

You know, the energy you're seeing, it has remained a little volatile in the last few weeks, if you see it went up, and then the last few days it's coming down. I continue to believe that I think with the crisis that Europe has faced, I think each country has learned to find, first of all, they found an alternate source of energy. They have also done a lot of other things to have a backup. I think the more and more as you progress, I should see that there will be more stability and the energy prices should evolve in the more right direction.

Maybe a question related to that from Pierre Rousseau. Could you give us the share of energy costs specifically within the 12 billion euros enveloped for raw materials and energy in 2024?

Slightly more than 2 billion, around 2 billion, I would say.

Another question from Laurent Rinachier. You mentioned more and more weather accidents due to climate change. Did you try to assess in the last years how much it brought in terms of additional activity? No, not specifically, but for me, it's obvious that, again, sustainable construction, it's not so much the CO2 content in a specific building. It means better buildings. So around the world, I have every confidence that sustainable construction is there to stay, regardless of any political debate. If I'm in the US, the president of a university, if I want to attract the best students, the best teachers, I need good air quality in the auditorium. I need good visual light. I need good energy performance. I need good acoustic performance. So I need better building. We have multiple situations where insurance carriers in the US don't reimburse the roof repair if the homeowner doesn't buy a premium product a better mix of products so it's a level of activity that will unfortunately only go up because of more frequent extreme weather and improve the mix of sangra so we are working on indeed resident buildings better buildings without even mentioning the energy efficiency and the green value that is encapsulated in that that i highlighted for the french example so it is there to stay and we are leading in terms of sustainable buildings and suitable construction going forward I think we have exhausted all your questions. So thank you very much for your time and attention. Again, we have a very strong equity story. So I'm very confident about the path and the journey Saint-Gobain going forward on solutions. Our solution journey will continue to accelerate and we'll highlight that in October. we have now a very strong position across the different regions in terms of operating profit north america which is holding up well and we have as you know number one position in the us canada there asia emerging markets and and europe benefiting from the gradual recovery of In Europe, we are very much focused on value creation, going forward for our shareholders, and we'll continue to rotate our portfolio with acquisitions and diverse teachers. And cash flow, I can tell you that Shredda, among many, many other things, did a very nice transition to mode and all the teams of Sangoba. And of course, not only in Asia Pacific, but across the board, I will continue to get inspired by Shredda and all the efforts of the colleagues of Sangoba on cash. So thank you. And we will see you and talk to you end of April for the Q1 call. And again, congratulations and many thanks to you, Shredda, and all the best to Asia-Pacific. Thank you. Thank you.