Invinity Energy Systems plc

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Infinity Energy Systems PLC results presentation. Our apologies for the slight delay. Throughout today's recorded meeting, attendees will be in listen-only mode. Questions are encouraged and can be submitted at any time just using the Q&A tab situated on the right-hand corner of your screen. Before we begin, we'd like to submit the following poll, and I'm sure the company would be most grateful for your participation. I'd now like to hand over to the presenting team. Good afternoon to you all.

Thank you. Good afternoon, everybody. Firstly, I'm going to start with a couple of apologies. Firstly, we're a few minutes late. And secondly, I recognise the visual here probably isn't as we'd anticipated. We were all in a different room, but for some reason, we couldn't cope with the bandwidth settings of all of us coming in separately. So we rapidly and hastily reconvened in the same room. So I hope you can hear us. I hope you can see us OK. If for some reason this doesn't work, we'll be able to get through the next hour and apologies if it's not quite as perfect as we first hoped for. Anyhow, if we can move on, this is the results presentation for the 2025 year. In a moment I'll hand over to Adam to run through the numbers. I anticipate a lot of the questions and a lot of interest is probably a little bit further than just financially what we did in 2025, so I'll just briefly cover what we're going to talk about In that regard, I recognize as well there are likely to be a few listeners to this call who haven't heard as much about Invinity as others, so there will be a few slides on us. So forgive me for those who've heard that before, but I think it's useful to go through that. So in the last couple of announcements we've made, there have been a number of strategic themes which we focused on, and that really is the basis for the success foremost on that is product cost. This is fundamentally a technology I don't think anyone can think about battery storage as an important technology when you look at the energy transition and what's needed globally. There are many different characteristics of many different batteries but ultimately what is important is product cost and that's the thing which we have been most focusing first thought we would be a couple of years ago and we'll come onto this stat again but within two years we'll have taken a minimum of two-thirds of the product cost out from vs3 to enduring you know that is a great achievement from the team with further to go that's exactly what's needed to accelerate the commercial uh development that we're seeing and the second thing which i am really really proud of is the response we get We will cover that in some detail. But that means the track record you see there as well, nine gigawatt hours of energy dispatched from our batteries and growing. That is the proof that our technology works. And we are very proud of continuing to publish that stats and we'll continue to do so. When we talk to clients, that makes a big difference as well. And then scale. The numbers for last year, which Adam's about to talk about, are a growth from previous years, but equally, I would suggest not representative of where I certainly as chief exec want to take this business and where we see the opportunities coming forward. So we need the manufacturing capability for that, and that's what we've been working on. So very much what we said at the bottom, it's building those foundation and removing those barriers to scale, and we believe we're accelerating into that next phase. So with that, Adam, I shall hand over to you.

Thanks a lot, Bishop. So I'll take you through the key financial highlights that we've reported through the year. So revenue and project grants of £17.8 million, so up to 50% year-on-year. That is principally Cobwood, which we have now completed. So that includes £9 million of approved grant funding from Desnes and the £8 million of custom revenues that were reported there. You'll see a reduction in the gross loss year-on-year, so £3.5 That's what we've been working on through OSTRO, starts to feed through in terms of down initiatives start to take shape. You see a net reduction there in the net R&D that reflects the conclusion of the Gamesa joint development agreement. Following that, now that we've now fully commercialized, Endurium has started shipping that out to customers. So that's boiling down to an improvement in just EBITDA at 7% year-on-year and starting to see the effects of scaling our commercialization of our Endurium product platform. Next slide, please. So looking through then what's happening on the balance sheet, our net operating position has decreased year-on-year by 18%. That's really a reflection of releasing that inventory for loaders onto the site and increasing the trade payables there. Revision is year-on-year from 2 to 2.4 million, and that's essentially legacy systems and a couple of elevated logistics on some remote project sites. We've rounded up the year with 28.8 million, and very pleased to report a positive going concern assessment from BDO through to June 27, which was the basis of the opinion here. With that, I'll pass back across to Jonathan and Matt.

Thank you, Adam. So a couple of slides here are just as a refresher on Invinity. And as a headline, we deliver what we feel is the world's most proven and most mature non-lithium energy storage technology. And we've said that for a while, and we've said that with our understanding and belief that's the case. We will talk in a few moments about FlexSpace. It was extremely reassuring to see after a very, very competitive and thorough RFP process that our technology came out on top. That was across flow batteries not just vanadium flow batteries that was all flow batteries they've looked at and also some other non-flow technologies that look to get involved there so we have demonstrably some external validation at scale and size there so I think we can point to the fact that that is something which we have achieved you can see that from the nine gigawatt hours of batteries dispatched by modules that have been deployed. As a reminder, the previous product had six flow battery modules within a shipping container. And of those individual modules, there are over 2,000 now out in the field. We are a global business, and there's a couple of slides in a moment just to see and to remind everyone how that presence is growing. That's from a customer perspective, but also from a manufacturing perspective. But what we like to think is there is a well-known retail bank that talks about being a global bank in a local market, and we see exactly that. We have local... employees on site to make sure we deliver that local service. And that for us is really important. And we deliver our product as a modular product. able to pivot that to whichever market it might be from a u.s perspective you know there are some strict requirements for projects that benefit from various tax outcomes we can do that in that u.s market um from building um a certain amount of the product there we can do that within the uk we can do that within europe we can do that within within china and that comes from the way big architects of that product um we have about 180 employees that is spread and elsewhere and we've got centers of excellence there so we manage those time zones but it is has come from and that 20 years investment in the product is now really starting to see the commercial traction from that and when you actually speak to our customers they see us as a business that's got the technology right they recognize that we have deliberately not you know shouted from the ramparts as to how great we are because we wanted to be able to prove that is the case because that is the sort of customer we talk to they want and then you will now see the testimonies that come through that I think is what we have managed to achieve and is enabling us to progress further. So in terms of this technology, and energy storage and that means we don't have the degradation that other chemistries do and that's really important because then again these are significant capital investments and the customer wants to know that this product will be there for at least that period of time they also don't want the restriction on how they use it the energy markets are changing very rapidly even when you look at data centers everyone talks about data centers we obviously have some data center customers it is still not that clear as to what the power requirements will be for the we do not mind how that battery is used. As that use case changes, our battery will continue to perform. Rather than having to perfect a solution around how a battery operates, we will charge with electrons and dispatch electrons, however you wish to do that, without any implication on our warranty. And that becomes a very powerful selling point. It's fully configurable, fully scalable. Now, in terms of our other advantages over specifically lithium, there is absolutely no fire risk. And what that means particularly is really from a permitting perspective. There are many, many areas where, from a permitting perspective, you would not put a lithium battery USP because it's simply not possible to put a lithium battery there. The fast response times, there is sometimes a perception that a flow battery because of the pumps will not respond as quickly as a lithium system. That is not correct. We've got a study from DNV, we've seen that from our data that shows that because of the electrolyte that sits within the stack, we can perform and react equally as quickly. We are quieter than lithium, which makes a big difference and therefore you don't have the noise from that. And at the end of it, we are 99% recyclable. You can take the electrolyte out, it sits in the tanks, and fully recycle that into another battery, and everything else you can put through the usual recycling chains. So again, some great performance that sits within the business, the product, sorry. And then moving on to our customer base. This is a slide you may think you've seen before, but actually what I've done is asked to take out our manufacturing and take out our partners. And these are where projects we've either delivered to now or announced deliveries to. And you'll see there is a very significant number of projects within the US. And that's really interesting. You've seen Department of Energy projects there, two announced recently. You've seen support from the California Energy Commission. And in terms of our credibility, that is very significant. And the US market is growing rapidly and is still very supportive of batteries and long duration storage batteries. So we are really, really excited about that US market. From a UK perspective, we'll talk in a minute about Cockwood. That is our UK site. That will be hopefully operational within the next quarter, just as soon as that's actually connected to the grid, and that will be a fantastic reference site for us. Of course, you see FlexSpace that sits there as well, and we'll talk about that in a moment, but as a wonderful reference site for us, but also across Asia and Australia as well. We've got a number of projects that sit within there and a growing pipeline of those opportunities as well. That is supported by the manufacturing base and partners, and that's why we're in Vancouver. That's why we have sales and customer support in the US, and we are fully intending to set up manufacturing in the US to be able to support existing and future customers there. We've got a wonderful facility in Scotland in both Bathgate and Motherwell. We are calling you here today from Bathgate. Great delegation coming up from Desnos tomorrow. We have customers coming up and seeing us here all the time. We've got an enduring unit here. This is a great site to show those customers. And then we've got partners in India, in Taiwan, and in China as well. And we bring all of that together to be that global business, but on a local marketplace. So Matt, if I may, I'm going to hand over to you.

So one of the things this global base of development facilities, manufacturing facilities, and partnerships is that this entire team is today galvanized around one of the most important development aspects inside the business, which is our cost reduction program. We've talked extensively in the past about how we view cost reduction as one of the most important aspects of driving this business forward. As much as we've been very successful specific projects and to specific applications up until now unless we are able to continue to remain competitive with the cost leaders in the market. We're going to see our commercial traction stall. What we have initiated about two years ago was a cost reduction program that we believed at the time and continue to believe would get us competitiveness enhanced and therefore enhancing our commercial opportunities over the coming period. And what we've announced in our results this year is that we're very pleased that that combination of partnerships and manufacturing capabilities and development capabilities has seen us accelerate against those cost reduction plans to the point where we are significantly ahead of the plan that we had previously proposed and announced. We have achieved about a 66% reduction in our product costs from where we were two years ago for projects that we are currently quoting or delivering for the end of this year and beyond. That's a combination really of three things. It's a combination of value engineering, so looking at how we product. It brings in some higher volume and lower cost manufacturing procedures and processes that are really being brought into play by different partners within that supply chain. And then finally, looking to outsource some of those activities to best cost regions using some of the new and existing strategic partnerships that we have both on the manufacturing and supply chain side. In the long term, our cost target is to get even further below where we are currently quoted. And though we are laser focused right now on the cost deductions for our product to be delivered in the immediate term, that more R&D focused, more development focused work is also going on in the background so that we will continue to hit those aggressive targets between now and the end of I think if we were to think of the pillars of excellence inside our company right now, really cost reduction is a big part of them. The other one is how we support our customers. And we've been thrilled over the last couple of years about the feedback that we've gotten from customers in the field. Infinity have consistently been able to deliver. deliver the performance with those products that our customers need. And our customers have been able to turn around and in some cases even over and above the way that they originally expected to be able to make use of those products. The graph on the right is one of the simple ways that we track those metrics just by the number of the amount of energy dispatched out of our batteries. We've crested over nine gigawatt hours now. That is a number that we expect is going to continue to grow aggressively as more and more of our batteries come online. That combination of proven experience and rapidly decreasing product cost is what's leading to probably the third most exciting thing, which is growing commercial momentum. We are seeing a much greater amount of inbound interest into the company, driven by some of the big wins that we've had on the commercial side over the last couple of months. Um, but not only are we getting more interest, you know, when we start to get into customers, uh, and they start to look at, you know, what is this thing actually going to cost me? And are there other people out there who are actually, uh, who are actually reinforcing then these ability to deliver in both cases, we can answer. Yes. Yes. We have a competitive product. Um, yes, we can deliver value over and above what other companies are doing. And yes, we can prove that, uh, that, uh, that, that, that the product, um, is, is actually doing what it needs to get done. We see that kind of traction increasing across the four different areas that we typically focus on for different market points. You know, standalone batteries, which has long been one of our major focuses. Renewable co-location, where we are taking our batteries and using them to dispatch renewable generated power at the most appropriate time of day. Commercial and industrial applications, which especially is looking to take more control over their electricity bills is a large and growing segment within our overall product base. And then finally, as we'll talk about in a minute, data centers where we see all over the world a tremendous need for appropriately managed flows and to provide low-cost power and very I think if we look at one specific instance of those commercial segments in the behind the meter market, we announced earlier this week something called Project Vitality. This is a commercial and industrial opportunity or a commercial industrial project that we were doing in the U.S., partially funded by the U.S. Department of Energy. This was a project that had been funded some three years ago or so, but with the change in administration in the US, a lot of the approvals of these funds had been held back temporarily. Because of the benefit of projects like this to the overall US electric grid and US-based domestic consumers, the DOE has very happy about this one in particular. This is going to see us deploy our batteries behind the meter with a new partner called MuGrid Analytics, who are a specialist in microgrids, to be able to deploy these batteries, not only at this particular site, but into a larger and growing portfolio of microgrid projects in a way that fully maximizes the value that our batteries deliver to those electricity and use customers. That is one of a number of projects we're very excited about. Jonathan, back to you to describe some of the other ones.

Great. I'll move on to talk about the FlexSpace project, which we announced some 10 days ago or so. Maybe if I start by talking about Laufenberg, which is probably not something which all of you on the call are familiar with, I would recommend having a look due to a session to the Star of Laufenberg. The Star of Laufenberg is... is the birthplace of the european connected power grid um 1958 i was just checking my my dates it was the first site to successfully connect the grids of germany france and switzerland so it was basically the inception of one of the first super grids and that now forms obviously the backbone of some of the european power networks it was the original building where swiss grid were based were based and even now it forms a vital And the battery which is going to be installed here, yes, it's connected to a data center. That's obviously a use case of something where we're looking to further deploy batteries across the world. But actually, this is designed to be an asset which will form a critical part of Switzerland's energy power infrastructure. If we take a step back, I am humbled. designed battery, it has been assessed as being capable of achieving it. And I think from a credibility perspective, that is enormously helpful to us when we talk to other customers, when we talk to suppliers, and when we look at where this business could be taken. The process to win this really took about a year. There was a lot of engagement upfront. about a six-month RFP process, which was very, very involved. It involved a lot of diligence on us as a business, our ability to scale and how our projects have performed. There was an awful lot of getting to know the team as well to make sure that it was comfortable that we could deliver this project. So where we are to date is we are now the sole party doing the engineering phase. That six-month process involved in our bid and I think collectively we brought together that concept of being a local party and I think that's one of the key reasons again why we won the bid. We listened to our customer and made sure we proposed a bid that worked and that's something again which is an organisation we are good at. So that engineering phase we would expect to last a year. Their anticipation is that they will then move forward to full contracting by 2029 now I'm not sure the just an infrastructure perspective. The battery will sit in a hole that is now already dug. It is about 200 metres long. It's about 87 metres wide and about 25 metres deep. It is simply awe-inspiring. And the entirety of that hole will be filled by, assuming we progress to that final stage, an infinity flow battery. There is a proposal to put another battery on top of that. The hope would be that, obviously, if we do the good job we think we will do, moment we are, as you would understand, very much concentrating on that proposal. It's really interesting. That is effectively a two-hour battery. We talk about us being a long-duration storage business and technology, but two hours is not regarded as a long duration. So why have they picked a flow battery, an AU flow battery? There's really two key reasons for that. Again, it's the ability to cycle. course, the fire risk. You would not put a battery where there was a risk of thermal runaway beneath a data centre or any form of infrastructure. So again, a fabulous project for us and one we are very proud to be involved in. Back to what is still now Europe's biggest vanadium flow battery. This was the Valodes project. And as you were aware, we had a number of nibbles at trying to get this delivered. And when I took over as chief exec two years ago, I concluded we had to get this done because of the significance with our customers. So what you see there is an Infinity-owned site, at least up to the batteries you see in the top third there. So the solar belongs to Infinity, the batteries belong to Infinity. It is installed. The bulk of the cabling work is done. We are just waiting for UK Power Networks to deliver the connection at the substation, and we will be able to commission that in the third quarter this year. That will start selling revenues for the business. But most crucially, we can take customers and investors down to that. We are already having institutional investors coming to see that. My absolute anticipation is we will have a retail event to bring retail shareholders and others down to have a look at it as well, because we're very proud of this asset. And this sort of gets to the heart of what we've been doing as a business for the past five years and beyond. We recognize that some of our revenues have been lighter than we wanted to, but what we've needed to do is get batteries out there into the field that we can prove the technology. And the five, 10, 20 megawatt projects, when you look at what's in the pipeline going forward, That is the stepping stone. We need some significantly bigger projects. And because it's a modular product that needs to have a fully formed that gets delivered to site and connected, bigger systems can see the scale that can come with that and have the confidence in doing it. So that's why we've been adopting the strategy we have done and why we think we're really positioned for growth from here. And that really does lead me into this final slide, and then we'll start to take some Q&A. We have that stable, proven technology. We have what we think is that market-leading position. There is other competition out there, and we are delighted there's other competition out there, and we do really wish them every success. It is helpful for us for there to be other competition. People need to take a reference point in our pricing that comes from other competition. They need to compare our technology. We will win some, we will lose some, and that's fine. The market plays There is no market in the world that isn't looking at decarbonizing and building energy security, most importantly. And obviously what's going on in the Middle East at the moment only provides an extra driver for that. And we think we've developed key strategies couple of years ago and remain a very supportive investor and strategic partner. They give us great support and great insights as to what's going on in the UK. What was Gamesa Electric and is now ABB as a partner, a very well-known firm, very supportive from a technology perspective, actually across India. shaman cnd and uesnt in china and then across south africa um and and also baoji in china as well there are plenty of others we are talking to from a partnership perspective that will come through in due course that's across the supply chain uh commercially and elsewhere so i think that's for the moment we have done the half hour we thought we would be presentation. And now we can look at Q&A and we'll try and get through as many as we can.

That's great. Thank you very much indeed for you guys for the update. Can I please ask investors to continue to submit their questions just using the Q&A tab situated on the right-hand corner of your screen. But just while the guys take a few moments to review your questions submitted already, I'd just like to remind you that recording this presentation along with a copy of the slides and the published Q&A can be accessed via the InvestorMeet company dashboard. um guys you've had a number of questions from investors um so thank you firstly to everybody for engagement this afternoon uh if i may just hand back to you maybe joe just to maybe moderate us through the q a if i could ask you to read out the questions and and hand them out that'd be fantastic i'll pick up from you at the end lovely thanks mark um yeah lots of questions i'm glad we've got

plenty of time to go through and there's a number of questions here uh jonathan around the um the cap and floor and so uh there's a specific question around um timing when we might find out um the results maybe we'll start there and i can roll into some of the other ones from there okay so uh we have um i would say arguably no more insight than anyone else does on this

So I can only talk about what our clients are telling us and what we hear from the market. We believe that Ofgem notified all developers some further information by the end of this month. I wouldn't suggest that is an absolute guarantee, but that was the latest indication which came directly, we believe, from Ofgem.

Okay. There's another question here around scaling up into that, into sort of whatever potential capacity that comes from. So could you give us maybe a bit of a minute on our plans to scale our current manufacturing capacity and how that can build out? And then maybe we'll go to Adam to talk a little bit more about how the working capital works.

through that process as well yeah absolutely um i think when i start with that answering that question we we have a lot of people who come up to bathgate and motherwell wanting to understand the question of how we scale and what i would say is everybody comes away reassured that the scaling of this business is something that we have a plans for and should not feature very highly on the risk register and the reason for that is we have quite a lot of optionality in how comes together as a number of building blocks. The core building block sits as a 25th steel container with roto-molded plastic tanks that sit within it and wiring and pumps. And typically that is a commodity-esque product that scaling that comes from areas in the world, lower cost regions in the world that are capable of doing that. Typically China, but also we look to second source that potentially in India as well. So the ability to scale that is something that is very much within our partners grasp. And so from what else sits within that, you've got the vanadium electrolyte itself, and there are many sources of that. their flex-based deal we are seeing pockets of supply that even we didn't know existed as well so there's significant supply of that not just within China but across the world as well some other interesting areas that we're seeing crop up as well which we're quite excited about so actually the real question for us from a scale perspective is what does it mean from manufacturing stacks and what does it mean from a final assembly perspective from a stack perspective we are probably across the business around about half a gigawatt hour per year. And that is capable of scaling within about six months. And we certainly have plans to scale that. So any order that comes through, we would typically have at any scale a longer lead time than that. And we have a proven semi-automated line here, which that line can be expanded at relatively low cost. And in fact, the new lines can be added at relatively low cost as well. And then you're looking at the space to do the final assembly. Now, we could, if we wanted to, deliver that entirely from China. We could deliver our stacks into China, into Baja, and they could deploy from there. So there's no limit there. But actually, from a UK perspective, the team didn't necessarily thank me, but they had two months from securing the size of Motherwell to getting that operational. So again, what do we need there? Ultimately, we need a big space that is dry, relatively clean and ideally with a crane that can carry 30 tonnes, but equally that's not necessarily the case. So what we can do is scale quite easily for low capex. We can do that potentially with partners, but equally it's available to us as well.

Brilliant. And then Adam, can you, there's a couple of questions here around sort of working capital management through the sort of the order cycle and about how that works. Can you talk about that briefly?

Yeah, so we are made to order. We take deposits from our customers upfront to manage our working capital judiciously. And we do plan to continue that. And I'm really pleased to support a very positive and engagement, our house bank. So when it comes to a stage where there's the consistent order board that will allow us to hold some excess inventory to respond short notice to customers, we've had really positive discussions with our house banks around that. At the current stage, we focus on minimising our working capital as we go through this process. And ultimately, what we get from cap and floor, which as Jonathan mentioned, we're expecting this month and the timing of that final contract on flat place will inform us around those capital decisions and I mean we are roughly one tenth the capital intensity of a lithium plant and that is really helpful for us in terms of setting up local manufacturing and that's very important in today's market we're having domestic manufacturing and local manufacturing is important to all of our customers and all the stakeholders and so that'd be the current you're on those two points.

Brilliant. And you sort of touched on it slightly there around the capital intensity, but there's two questions very similar here asking around a bit of a breakdown of the operating costs, if you could just briefly sort of call that out there in terms of the breakdown around sort of where are operating costs sitting here?

Yes, there's clearly a lot of operating leverage within the business. We have a significant team of product development professionals in Vancouver which we have invested in to get that 66% cost down that you've seen there in the numbers we reported early on. We're starting to see that bear fruit. You're seeing that in today's numbers in terms of the gross margin. And then we are investing ahead of the order book as we need to to generate that. And that's when you start to see the operating leverage in the business report through.

If I can just add to that, Adam, the question was our OPEX is, I think, did I say significant? Did I say that? And from my perspective, the sooner we can get to a position that the business is cash flow breakeven and generating profits, then the better, without a shadow of a doubt. We do not think having cash outflows and making losses is a sustainable way of running the business. perspective and across actually most of the organization we are quite lean from an OPEX perspective versus others so I don't think there is fat within that that we should have trimmed away they are all working there are well over 50 across that R&D team. We are delivering across the world. Look at those number of projects. We have to service those. And then we've got the infrastructure as a corporate company that comes with that. So every penny we spend, we do think quite carefully about. But we have built for the scale that we think is coming, such that we can convert that into a cash flow positive and profitable. We need to make sure we get there as soon as we can.

Thank you. There's a question here around bankability and what we're doing to sort of build that as we go into things. Who wants to take that?

Great. Bankability comes back to two things. Is the technology going to deliver and is it going to get paid for over time? I think what we've seen on the paid for side is increased stability of revenues into some projects like ours so that people can believe the revenues coming into them. And then the other part of it is making sure that the product is actually going to continue to deliver as it was intended to do. We've had great feedback from customers, as I said earlier, on the batteries actually performing the way that they are supposed to do. And the more that we can make that case, the more that we are able to stand with our customers alongside their financiers, their lenders, and make the case that the batteries really are going to be fit for purpose for the long term.

So we've got a third party technical study completed by DMV on bankability. We're really pleased with the outreach from the UK banks ahead of these announcements in June in order to understand the Stream 2 technologies, which we are the largest there. So we've shared that report through with UK banks to get ahead of those discussions after the cap and floor results are announced. And then the other part of this, the key part around the bankability, is having contracts in place that take the merchant risk off the table. This is what cap and floor has done. It's a 25-year contract. The floor makes the bank, supports the bank debt. So then having projects with a very long-term contract from the government allows the banks to get comfortable with the other parts of that. So great engagement from the UK banking market on this topic, which we're pleased to report.

So we talked a lot about the UK. There's questions here around places that are not the UK, especially around partners. So there's a specific question asking for an update. How are the partnerships going in China, India and Hong Kong? And how is those relationships developing? What are our expectations for the future?

yeah no um good question look there is there's a lot to tell about the infinity story uh and in some respects uh we've got to sort of highlight where the most recent traction commercially is and you can see that from the announcements we've we've made the partnerships we've got across china um india and hong kong are really interesting they cover two areas one of which is they cover supply chain and manufacturing and a lot of what sits beneath that project austria those partners assisting us in taking that down there. So they are actively involved in that, but you see that behind the scenes. From a commercial perspective, it's quite interesting. China has deployed a greater number of flow batteries by gigawatt hours than anywhere else in the world. Those are typically deployed via a sort of built-in type approach to a flow-back, more like a chemical flow-up rather than our containerized solution. We believe our price point for Endurium at the time that we set out sets us at in in China now that's really quite interesting because there are gigawatt hours deployed and gigawatt hours of opportunities there and I'm really excited about how that could develop what I am though is cautious that those opportunities need to develop so I would like to just state a bit sort of visibility on that. But there was a loss of opportunity there. It is the same within India, albeit I would say that India is at a probably less mature position than China, but certainly we've got a very active partnership from actually there. We're in regular dialogue with them. and so you know we and then yeah taiwan we haven't mentioned taiwan for a while he's still actively involved with eva jira there's a couple of really interesting projects there um and the fact that we have a significant u.s uh operation is extraordinarily helpful when it comes to the visiting business in taiwan so you know a lot of activity there yeah as an aside uh was a direct invitation from the mayor who controlled that city and when we turned up we found out we were guests of honor at the um the business launch of that so um we were yeah we are held in high regard there because they wouldn't invited everyone along to do that um and actually we were in a meeting yesterday with a partner who invited us when he found that out to do two other marathons so if you're looking to understand to make sure we build relationships, we are doing that. Adam is only sorry he didn't do the Chinese one, he was promised to do the next one.

Thanks. You mentioned the US, another one of the questions on here is around US manufacturing and sort of a partnership strategy in North America. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Yeah, we have a the US may mean we end up having a blended approach across that, to be honest. I think to begin with, we are making sure that we build manufacturing against the opportunities that are there. So we are waiting for a number of opportunities to contractually sign, and then we can give a little bit more visibility on that.

country in the world if it was if it was ranked that way and it's also quite large by by geographical nature as well so you can see over time that's having a different approach in different areas okay and and sticking with that theme um there's a question here asking about how we how we close the gap on some of the um the other firms in in our in our sector they were in in the us and looking at their valuations and the sort of the market there we got well if i if i

the obvious valuation to look at. I think their market cap today is $3 billion. We have risen fortunately over the last few weeks, which is great to see. They have a fantastic business in the US that is growing and a good reputation. We also have the same. I'm confident that the UK capital markets want converting into contracted deals will come through that valuation gap will close there is plenty of space for us and EOS to coexist happily we do so already on the frontier power cap and floor projects you see in the UK and I think there is coexist on a project in California already and you know we will compete against them in some projects but actually we are often find themselves not competing against them, to be honest. And so I suspect we will win some, and I suspect we will lose some. But there is plenty of market for us. So delighted, as I said, to have competitors alongside us, as it provides useful reference points for our customers.

Thanks. Matt, I'm going to come to you on the next one. There's a question here about, it's more about IP protection. So maybe we'll start with that, how we're adequately protecting our IP, given our global footprint and our partners in China and India and various other places. And then there's a specific question around software and controls as a key differentiator within the market. Can you just briefly touch on that?

Sure, yeah. I mean, first of all, When we talk about the intellectual property, that is sort of the core of how our products operate and how they operate well. Really, a lot of it is built into some IP in the stacks and some IP in how we operate the system. The IP in the stacks, we retain pretty tight control over by manufacturing those devices in-house. We've looked at whether we might have third parties manufacturing those for us, and I think there is a possibility to do that at the right scale and with appropriate IP protections around it. In terms of the operability of this system, it really comes down to the point about the software control systems. We have, over the past two or three years especially, made some very exciting advances in how we actually operate one of these systems, and therefore getting more power and more energy out of the same volume of electrolyte, the same amount of cell stack, doing so at much higher efficiency. All that is really built into the core operating software, the DMS that sits inside our battery. That BMS, that software, those controls are not something we ever release outside those algorithms, those strategies. So yeah, hence the ability to maintain relatively tight control over the things that get that 5% to 10% better efficiency and 20% to 30% more energy out of our batteries than some of our competitors.

Brilliant. Thanks, Matt. Actually, I'll stick with you. There's another question here around sort of, it's a more general sort of question around how we win against the sort of people in the elders space and our competitive advantages against them on a technical basis. So how are we competing on a competitive basis to put lithium to one side in the sort of emerging long duration non-lithium space? And just give us a sort of top line on that one.

I mean, look, top line on that, I think looking at the UK Cabin 4 program is a great example, right? That is a program that attracted interest from suppliers all over the world and where a relatively small number of suppliers were able to make it to the stage that we're currently at. You know, we see that there are great opportunities for technologies other than ours. You know, there are, for example, some very, very long duration technologies, whether you're looking at zinc or iron or others, that are designed to serve multiple day applications on the electric grid. Those may have a great place to play in the future. There are things like pumped hydro that are very, very well proven and can be very, very durable at very, very low cost over extreme application onto the electric grid. We think that those are technology types and applications that are not going to be long-duration storage opportunities.

Thanks. Going back to the UK, there's a question around Copwood and the sort of long-term plan around that. As a business, what's our long-term vision on the Copwood project and plan for that, I guess?

Yeah, I think in the short to medium term, we need to sweat that asset. And by sweat that asset, I mean use that battery and prove that it can be used as a workhorse. So that's both operating use this battery when co-located with solar. We want to prove to our customers that it can do all of the use cases we talk about. So I would see that taking place over short to medium term. At some point in time, if it has served its uses, um there's a question as well uh referencing the recent comments by the chancellor by rachel reeves around buying british in key industries um best comment on that at all yeah and actually she has mentioned that but we're in we are also hearing that within government as as well and yeah we have business coming up to see us uh tomorrow with a group a sort of global group It is a frustration of mine that when I look across our portfolio across the world, there is a lot of support across countries for us moving manufacturing in that I don't always see directly within the UK historically, but I am seeing a bit of a shift in that regard. Do I think we could do more? I think, yes, we could do. Supporting manufacturing the jobs in the UK, and that's getting back to creating local jobs and supporting local economies and national economies.

rhetoric across different government departments so my hope is that monofagem are making their awards that they take account of that and sort of tangentially related but more on the uh on the supply chain side um what's our we've been asked a question here about how we're mitigating things like tariff risk and the way changing the geopolitics let's say um can you sort of comment on that

that we don't get any visibility more than anyone else does as to what is happening globally but we try to make sure that we diversify our supply chain where we can do so make sure that we are never single source across different areas of our supply chain and that we have manufacturing in different areas such that we can deliver from different areas as need be I think the important thing is to make sure that we are not too reactionary because as you've been told extraordinarily quickly in global politics at the moment but we are well spread across Europe, the US and Asia so I think we've got as many bases covered as we recently could be expected to have.

It impacts us in the short term and in the medium term it's a great opportunity for the company as we are a low capital intensity option compared to conventional short duration battery storage so that allows us to set up local manufacturing and the benefits the investment tax credit and the production tax credit in the US are significant. And so some of those incentives and tariffs that you see playing out today are playing into our benefit in the long term.

Okay, thanks Adam. Sticking with the sort of supply chain theme and noting that we're sort of coming up to the last five minutes, there's a question here, just obviously we're being involved in larger and larger projects, just asking the obvious question about, you know, vanadium supply and how we're how we're managing that. Matt?

Yeah, sure. So look, we're going to be using about roughly 12,000 metric tons of vanadium in that project. Global production of vanadium per year is about 120,000 metric tons. So per year, we're going to be consuming something like 2% to 3% of annual production. So it's relatively small as compared with what's being used globally. I think what's exciting for us is that, and what's exciting for a lot of vanadium significantly in a very long time. And around the world, a lot of the existing suppliers are very eager to do business with us because they see the battery space as one of the biggest growth factors for their industry overall. And this project that we are now going to be doing is probably the first instance of a single project that really will spur the development of new capacity and some

And possibly our final question, unless any more come in while we're answering it. Jonathan, there's a question here about what do we think that Invinci's key barriers to growth are and what are we doing about it?

I mean, 180 people sounds like quite a lot, but when you start to move that through and work out what it takes to deliver a product the size we have with the level of parts it touches on, it touches on software, it touches on hardware from a technology perspective. We've got chemical engineering that goes within that. We've got manufacturing. We've got to have experts across those fields, and then we're doing it on a global basis as well. And so I think what we need to do is make sure we grow So from my perspective, we need to make sure that we start to, well, we do target, increasingly focus on opportunities that we can close. And we are pretty ruthless about some things we will cover. At the moment, the phone is ringing, as you might expect, constantly from people wanting to come and see us, wanting to hear about us, wanting to partner with us. And we need to make sure we pick the right partners, otherwise we could end up in an awful lot of meetings and be very busy, but not actually achieving anything. And that's what I'm firmly, firmly, be set numbers into the market that are cautious for the next couple of years, that have the growth that we can achieve. My job is to make sure we deliver opportunities that exceed that, that we can make sure we deliver against.

Brilliant. There's no more questions, so I'm going to end with this one final one, which is, what are you most excited about over the next six months? Which is quite a good one to end on. And as we've got three minutes, maybe we've got time to go around the table, so...

Look, from my perspective, a big part of my focus on the last year has been on the cost reduction. We've got those plans in place. We've got the teams working to finalize those details. Seeing all of those details come together in a final delivered product is going to be tremendously exciting for me.

Okay. You, maybe a second. We're leading the world in long duration in that respect. And I think the announcements of that, as you said, expectations are during the course of June are exciting. And I think having a site up and running operational at the scale we have, biggest in Europe at the time that it's made, it's really exciting to take both banks and customers around that and lead through to captain floor. So that'll be the biggest exciting part of my site. Thank you.

I will answer, but also, Final question has come in, which I think I want to answer as well. So what am I most excited about? The biggest frustration for me historically has been knowing the commercial discussions we are having and not being able to be more forthcoming on those. And we said before, we are often entirely reliant on what's happening at the customer perspective on a very complicated project to get those across the line. We've seen now that we've started to, FlexSpace, perfect example, that was one of the projects I was always referring to, but not by name. Delighted now that we've got to the stage where we won that, we can talk about it. That is not the only one that sits there, but I'm really excited by it. What I'm most excited about the next six months is being able to show, hopefully, some of those coming through. We can't promise that, but I am very excited about what could come through from that. The final question that came through was on future funding, and I certainly don't want anyone to think we have ignored that. We have raised capital before. We obviously have some significant growth prospects ahead of us. Adam has commented that BDN looked through from a going concern perspective and given us a clean bill of health. We have very supportive strategic shareholders in both National Wealth Fund and in terms of the strategic Indian investors we brought in in September and institutional as well. And there's a lot of excitement around the business. I am also conscious that there are lots of retail shareholders as well who support us on a daily basis, trading, buying and selling shares as well. And we will look to do the right thing by all of those and make sure we do it from a position of strength when needed.

Brilliant.

Thanks for the questions. Mark, have a chair.

That's great. Well, look, thank you to everybody for their engagement this afternoon. Tremendous amount of questions. And thank you to the team for your patience and your engagement as well. Ladies and gentlemen, that does conclude today's session. If I could please ask you not to close the webinar because we'll now redirect you so you can provide your feedback in order that management team can better understand your views and expectations. On behalf of the management team of Invenity Energy Systems PLC, thank you for your time this afternoon and enjoy the rest of your day.