Sabre Insurance Group plc

okay good morning everyone just give a few seconds people to join okay i think we're good to go um thank you very much for joining us and darling on this uh bright and sunny day and i'm pleased to say bright and sunny is pretty much how we feel about the half year results actually we think it's a good half year performance and we're looking forward to um explaining why and giving some of the detail in the next half an hour or so usual usual process today. Myself and Adam will run through a few slides and then we'll leave all the difficult questions to Trevor and Matt to pick up at the end. As we go through, you have the option to type questions into the Q&A box now. We'll pick up all at the end, put your virtual hand up and Hanro will unmute you and introduce you into the call. So this will be the presentation we'll run through. Fairly punchy. We're not going to drag this out too long. Run through the Top highlights, Adam will run through the financial performance, a bit of a market update, bit of a strategy update, restate our investment case, and then the outlook. And we will, as ever, leave plenty of time for Q&A at the end. So the highlights are, I guess for me, strong growth, probably slightly more growth than we expected at this point, and very confident in delivering against our current guidance of a profit slightly higher than last year. Probably impressively, we've done that ahead of a meaningful market turn in pricing as well. So looking into the DECA a little bit. As I say, very confident in the full year profit projection. Part here probably underplays the progress. I know there's been some focus on the margin. To me, that's just maths. The margin will snap back into line. We're very, very confident by the end of the year. Matt can explain why later. Growth, we've been able to grow ahead of the market term as I say partly because we've been able to reduce our claims inflation assumption as we discussed in the full year and the full year results by coming back from high single digit to mid single digit. That's allowed us to rebase slightly. Importantly we continue to do right completely within our target margins on new business and we're completely covering our forward-looking claims inflation which we'll discuss later. So financial result, 15% up on the top line, profit before tax, pretty healthy at this point. Four year profit, as I mentioned again, anticipated to be ahead of NIC last year. All new goods have been written within our target markets, we're not underpricing to grow by any stretch of the imagination. Strong solvency position, dividend is fairly mechanical, but hopefully an attractive dividend coming out of the half year. Virtually finished the share buyback, And on strategy, good progress on Ambition 2030. First proof points coming through as motorcycle. And we're also building in more customer enhancements by use of portals and looking at how chatbots can support customers going forward as well. So at this stage, very happy with where we are at the half year. At that point, I will leave Adam to talk about the financial position.

a bit more detail then we'll come back and give a bit more context around some of those those points so if I can hand to you great thanks Jeff and good morning everyone I'll take you through the financial performance for the first half of 2026 once the slides start to move forward there we go so the first half reflects two important themes in the business Firstly, we've delivered a strong and profitable growth, with gross premium increasing by 15.7% year-on-year to £116 million. Secondly, because insurance premium earns through the life of the policy, the value generated by that growth is not yet fully reflected in the period. As a result, profit before tax of £23.9 million is slightly lower than the comparative period, but entirely in line with our expectations, and supports our confidence in delivering full-year profit slightly ahead of 2025. Our net insurance margin was 15.7%, reflecting a net loss ratio of 55.7% and an expense ratio of 29.9%. The loss ratio remains comfortably within our long-term expectations, whilst the expense ratio reflects lower earned premium from the reduced volumes written during 2025, together with continued investment in people and technology. Importantly, the increase in premium written during 2026 is expected to earn through progressively over the remainder of the year. resulting in a lower expense ratio and we expect the net insurance margin to return to within our target range of 18% to 22% for the full year. Our solvency position remains very strong at 161.4% after allowing for the interim dividend and the ongoing £5 million share buyback programme. That strength has enabled the board to increase the interim dividend in line with our dividend policy by 20% to 4.1 pence per share. This chart provides some additional context around the movement in net insurance margin. As a reminder, net insurance margin measures the proportion of net insurance revenue retained after claims and expenses and is our key underwriting profitability metric. The principal driver of the reduction from the 19.2% achieved in 2025 to 15.7% in the first half of 2026 is the expense ratio. The expense ratio increased to 29.9%, collecting the lower earned premium generated from reduced 2025 volumes. Because our growth returned strongly in the first half of this year, there is a natural timing mismatch between pricing the business and earning the associated revenue. Alongside that, we continue to invest in our people, systems and technology as we execute our ambition 2013. As those higher premium volumes earn through during the second half, we expect the expense ratio to improve meaningfully, which, along with a strong loss ratio delivered through continued underwriting discipline, will allow the net insurance margin to return to within our target range. Our core strategy remains unchanged. We continue to write business at target margins and fully cover expected claims inflation within our pricing. And as a reminder, for comparability with previous periods and many of our long-standing disclosures, all of the headline ratios shown here are presented on an undiscounted basis. and do not include any benefit from IFRS 17 discounting. This slide breaks down the loss ratio into current year and prior year with the chart on the left showing the performance in 2026 today and the chart on the right showing the full year 2025 comparative. The overall net loss ratio for the period was 55.7% compared with 54.1% in 2025. The current year loss ratio was 66.5% This is a little above the position at the end of 2025 but remains firmly within normal levels of volatility and is consistent with our usual approach to reserving. At the half year stage there is always significant uncertainty around recently reported claims so the current year position naturally includes the largest level of explicit margins. The prior year loss ratio was a favourable 10.8% that reflects continued release of explicit margins held against older claims reserves as those claims mature together with some positive priority of development during the period. There have been no unexpected adverse trends, frequency or disparity trends, and our assumption for coins inflation remains unchanged to the mid single digit level. Overall, the loss ratio remains fully consistent with the business being written at our target profitability levels.

The slides change.

There we go. So this slide shows the underwriting performance across our three product lines. Motor vehicle continues to be the key driver of profitability, delivering a net loss ratio of 52%, while RISM premium increased strongly. Policy count grew 16.5% year on year, demonstrating our ability to grow whilst maintaining underwriting discipline. Motorcycle premium increased by more than 50% compared to the first half of last year, largely reflecting the continued success of Sabre Direct motorcycles. The product's loss ratio is elevated at the half-year stage, reflecting the effects of individually enlarged claims and normal seasonality within what remains a relatively small portfolio. Taxi performance improves significantly year-on-year, with loss ratio reducing to 48.2%. Whilst premium volumes remain deliberately constrained, this reflects the benefit of maintaining a disciplined approach in parts of the market where pricing remains unattractive. Looking across the portfolio as a whole, the message is unchanged. We're growing where market conditions allow us to achieve target returns, and we remain willing to limit volume where pricing does not adequately compensate us for the risk. And finally turning to capital generation, the Group continues to benefit from strong profitability and an efficient capital model, generating capital organically whilst maintaining a prudent balance sheet. The Board has declared an interim dividend of 4.1 pence per share, up from 3.4 pence last year and in line with our stated dividend policy. Alongside this, the £5 million share buyback amounts to the full year results is now nearing completion. After allowing for both the dividend and buyback, our solvency coverage ratio stands at 161.4%, which is slightly above our preferred operating range of 140-160%. That provides substantial flexibility to support growth, invest in Ambition 2030 and continue to deliver attractive returns to shareholders. As ever, our Council framework remains strictly forward. We prioritise underwriting discipline and capital generation, pay ordinary dividends in line with the policy and return surplus capital where appropriate. And with that, I'll hand back to you.

Thanks, Adam.

So, a brief market update. Where's the market pricing to start with? I would say slightly messy would probably be my summary I think it's pretty clear that more price is needed in the market we're seeing evidence people are trying to push that price on it's maybe not necessarily sticking so struggling to get a really firm foothold to push on from so clear evidence market pricing needs to go up still it's definitely stabilized it's definitely stopped going down it's definitely inching forward but quite a lot more to go is our view We're pretty well positioned coming into this market. We've maintained our rating strength over the last couple of periods. We price pretty strongly for claims inflation, so we still see forward-looking claims inflation of 6 or 7% from our current rating base. Clearly, if you've got a bit behind the curve, you may have more to catch up with on that, which we'll talk about in a second. Where we are, we see growth coming towards us. as the market does eventually get a good foothold and push on with pricing we can probably increase prices less than the market given our current price adequacy. On claims inflation not a lot of clear evidence yet of anything coming through from the current conflicts. We're looking both at our own data and we're trying to look as far through the supply chain as we can for any early evidence of issues emerging. So far not a lot and we think our current six or seven percent inflation probably covers Probably some things to be cautious of around care inflation you may see Andy Burnham talking about the need for care workers to be well paid clearly that will knock through to NHS and potentially care for seriously injured individuals so something to watch there as well Trevor I'm sure can give some more detail at the end if helpful.

Regulatory probably about stable as it's been for a very long time no new market interventions

Government taskforce concluded that you know the market added worked effectively and there was no price profiteering going on. As a general rule we look to maintain a very low rate at O3 burden anyway low rate at O3 risk. We really make our money from underwriting not from any of the things that might be seen as more controversial. To summarise pricing please, this is, thank you to Terence Jefferies for this slide, this This really shows where claims inflation has gone and where premiums inflation has gone and I guess really you'd want the premium line to be on top of the claims inflation line. Similarly other market commentators have spoken about the need for a 15 point increase over the next two years. I think someone thought that might be four percent this year, maybe 12 next year. Not a position I fully understand if you think you're heading into trouble one put 12 on this year and four next year. So market's still got some way to go. As I mentioned we're not seeing the need for this to come through to drive growth and we don't need this price to hit our margins going forward. Maybe a little frustrating the market's not moving quicker but we're still trading perfectly nicely through it. A strategy update. So I guess a lot of people on the call will understand the intention of Ambition 2030. Very briefly, it's to move our profit up to around 80 million by 2030 by two things. One is to increase our competitive position on core motor and to increase our general market presence on motorcycle. On core motor, going pretty nicely. The base IT developments are all in place. Further evolution to go over the next few years. The initial pricing tests are completed and we're probably about to start getting into some slightly higher cadence and some slightly higher impact pricing tests. as we come toward the end of this year and into next year. Motorcycle, all the IT is in place. Motorcycle customer service is being done entirely online through a web chat and customer portal. Really interesting, we haven't seen any meaningful customer demand for phone-based support here. Clearly, we do phone out where it's required, but most things are clicking within the portal or the chat. Motorcycle pricing, we continue to test and iterate our pricing but our confidence grows increasingly on that and we'll be quoting across the entire market probably as we go towards the end of this year. Inherent within all of this is maintaining our expense base. We can't afford to get sloppy. We want to make sure we keep expenses controlled as we roll out this new strategy. So what it is going to become enabling for us on 2030 is AI. This is something we spent a lot of time looking at as a business over the last six months or so. It's probably got five key areas where it's going to be an advantage to us. The first one is the speed of coding on systems. That's our internal systems and potentially our sort of core infrastructure systems. Clearly coding is much quicker and that provides new opportunities to us going forward. AI can support our fraud checks. so it gives them another tool to try and find filters I would say that's a bit of an arms race so as quickly as we're looking for AI to help us we know there's a risk of AI generated images CCTV images and still images coming through so there's a bit of an arms race in terms of how we keep on top of that one The actuarial team just outside my door here are getting very excited about the opportunity for AI to support some of the pricing decisions. We've got great data, great techniques, great people. AI gives us another tool to put on top of that as well. So I think that gives another boost to our strengths going forward. We think AI is going to help on some customer interactions. So certainly the chatbots at the moment are still manned by people. We see maybe AI having a role there going forward as well. What I would say on that side of things is that for us AI is all about enhancing people's jobs. We have no plans for redundancies whatsoever. We think as we grow we can hold our staff numbers but we're certainly not looking to lose people as we go forward. And the final box really is we've had a very tight focus on the risks of AI coming through. We've obviously seen things recently about AI bots breaking out of their sandbox to hack other companies. We're putting even more effort into the cybersecurity. That's both in terms of stopping hacks into us and the risk of leaking customer or company IP out as well. So lots of opportunities, but we're equally focused on what could be downsides if we are careless. Investment case. Very brief, just one slide on the investment case. We think we have some pretty significant competitive advantages. We're a very focused pure motor insurer. I think we've got a long track record of delivering near market leading margins and market leading performance through all parts of the market cycle. We have a mindset which is perhaps unusual that we're prepared to reduce volume when pricing is weak. We will always protect our margin capital and that will maximize our medium term profitability. We're now really in a position where we see the growth potential. So we've always said we can grow as market rates harden. That's really what we would expect to see going through the next six to 12 months, the ability to grow further as market increases. Clear medium term growth plan through ambition 30. Very low risk balance sheet, no debt, reinsurance cover at quite a low retention limit to protect the volatility of the P&L. and straightforward investment portfolio nothing complicated we make our money from underwriting not from taking investment gambles attractive income and capital returns good dividend yield ordinary dividend a fairly straightforward dividend policy and special dividends and buybacks are now part of our thinking as well where we end up with truly surplus capital really that means ambition 30 is an evolution of what we do today not a revolution uh this is really building on our core strengths rather than taking a big swing by entering perhaps more risky new areas this is really more of what we do we do today so outlook um as promised to get this presentation pretty brief and punchy and i'll keep this outlook in summary equally punchy um we expect for this year strong growth and confident we're very confident in the four-year guidance so to reiterate profit higher than last year. Net insurance margin to be back within the range by the end of the year that's just maths that will snap back in again and ambition 2030 currently on track with the early proof points coming through from the very strong growth in sabermotor motorcycle. Now at that point we will pause and we're happy to take any questions whatsoever if you want to stick your hand up our handrail will unmute you and We'll go from there.

And I'll see you again. First question is from Ivan from Barclays. Do you mind, Ivan?

Ivan, are you unmuted?

I am now. Thank you. I appreciate that. So I've got three questions, please. First one, just on the market outlook and pricing, I was just wondering if you could maybe share a little bit more color of how you think this is going to play out. I mean, one obvious question, you know, there may be 15 points of price needed, but all the major players seem to still be generating good underwriting profits. So what will make them push prices up so much at the risk of losing volumes? My second question is actually going to be on the loss ratio. So I think what you were talking about is the overall loss ratios within expectations, but there's, of course, quite a bit of volatility between the current year loss ratio and the PYD. just thinking into second half I mean should we expect the overall loss ratio to stay high because of current loss ratio reducing or because of reserve releases stay high and I have a third question as well please this is just on the capital generation I think we have seen in the past that episodes of strong growth at the margins that Sabre generates brings quite a lot of new capital generation which is on the case right now. Maybe you could help us on what's happening currently and what's your outlook for the next six to 12 months. Thank you.

Yeah, sure. I'll take the first one. Matt, you take the second. I'll take the third if that's okay. So in terms of pricing, I think pretty consistent views that claims inflation is now mid-single digit. I don't think it matters where your profits are at the moment. It's going to go backwards if you're not covering claims inflation on a forward-looking basis. I haven't heard anybody say they don't think claims inflation exists. Everything I'm seeing from external commentators suggest our call on this is about right. You need to be in that 10% to 15% range of price to increase the market to stay profitable. Clearly bigger players probably have more reserves. There may be some synergy benefits coming through in some places. I think probably the most uncomfortable place for you will be the squeeze sort of middle, the mid-ranking insurers, where they're smaller than specialists. We can afford to be focused. It means you've got some synergy and probably some other cost savings coming out. But I think there's not too much question of race need to go up across the market. It's more when, not if. Matt, can I talk about the loss ratio evolution?

Yes so the question is in two parts Ivan, first of all around prior year movements and then current year movements. So on prior years we'd expect in the second half this year to continue to see the margins come off, so that means that risk adjustments have to claim to settle, so we expect some improvement from that. We don't anticipate the selects ultimate reducing further, so any further movement in the prior year ultimately should be from the margin runoff. on the current year loss ratio we did see that we had some large claims in Q1 less so in Q2 which is normal volatility in that top layer we're right in the business we'll be right in the business at our target margins therefore for the second half of the year we expect the loss ratio for current year to reduce but more towards our target range therefore in the second half of the year the overall loss ratio to improve driven by the current year loss ratio going down

And Adam, can you take the question about capital generation and growth? Why don't you come off mute, that is.

I was about to get called out by that one. So on capital generation, I mean, I think what's happened in the first half of the year is sort of within reasonable bands of what's happening with earnings. If you look at sort of where the starting point was versus what we've generated in the year and what's happened in the capital requirement, the capital requirement has grown as we've grown as a business. by the sort of the reserves we're holding and the premium we're writing we would expect a sort of similar trend to continue through the second half but this year we have seen in the past that when premium grows fairly rapidly that we get a bit of a boost to caps all those earnings that might happen although in the first half of the year it hasn't happened as pronouncedly as it did in in previous years like 2023 for example so There's a few things to think about there. Generally, you know, we sort of anchor capital generation on earnings and then take up a bit for capital finance improvement increase rather. I think that's probably the best way to think about it for now. What does that mean in terms of our policy? Well, that's obviously exactly the same. So we think we can comfortably pay an ordinary dividend, 70 to 80% of the property tax. we expect that there may be some surplus capital we'll sort of decide what to do with that at the year end but as always when I'm talking about solvency there are quite a lot of moving parts it's very hard to put a sort of good point estimate on it so thinking about it sort of in the round that's the way I would think about it so very comfortable with what we've got we're comfortable with what we think is going to generate in the second half of the years okay to deliver the kind of capital returns that the market's expecting and we'll sort of see what happens over the next six months Thank you very much. Thanks, Bob.

All right, who is next? Next person is Abed from Panneo. Good morning, Abed. Give you a second to come off mute.

Good morning, can you hear me?

We can, loud and clear.

That's a hint for everyone else coming to speak as well then.

I have three questions if I can please. The first one was on the margin. I was wondering if you could help us bridge the half year net insurance margin back to the 18 to 22% range for the full year. Is it simply the mechanical premium and through do we need some normalisation on the loss ratio I think from some of your comments it's probably a bit of both so just any more colour on that and then the second question is on growth so the motor vehicle policy count grew I think from 15% since the start of the year I'm wondering can it grow further if pricing remains where it is or do you need pricing now to increase from there so just any colour on that please and then the final question is on the motor vehicle NIM could you share where that is for the half year I think it might be slightly better than the fruit number so just any any further detail on that would be helpful thank you okay thanks I'll take the growth one maybe you talk about the bridge and Adam will talk about the NIM scale we go on that

The growth, I think we've done pretty confident we can carry on growing. The market's not turned in the first half dramatically and we've managed to put on pretty good growth. The extent of growth in the second half will depend partly on that market movement but I would be pretty confident we're going to see decent growth still coming through the second half of this year regardless. Matt, shall we talk about the bridge between half one and half two margin?

So as I mentioned before we expect the current year loss ratio to improve in the second half of the year which should help the margin improve back to our target range. As Adam mentioned from presentation the premium is expected to be higher in the second half of the year as well which should help the expense ratio reduce as well which contributes towards the margin. The business we've been writing is in line with our targets therefore as that earns through in the second half of the year we expect that to be earning at that

No, that's completely right. So the expense ratio will be a chunk of the bridge and the loss ratio will pull the gap essentially within our target range.

I've got to say for a ICT factory that's as wildly confident as you can hope to be.

um Adam do you want to be um anything on the I think I was asked a bit as well I didn't ask the name question I think I think wherever it was coming from was if you look at it on a product basis what the what the margin might look like but for most people now we don't um calculate or disclose uh by products margins um we have a physical space across the entire business um so so you know it's not a number that we report however I suppose if you were to add our Normal expense ratio or the expense ratio received in the first half of the year to the loss ratio for the same motor, that would take us to around an 82% combined across that product, which would create a margin in the sort of 18% to 19% range.

Obviously, there's a lot more factors you could try and build into that if you were doing it properly.

So I think we're pretty comfortable with the margins that we're achieving on most vehicles, I suppose, is the sort of key answer to your question there.

Yeah, that's what I thought. That's what I was trying to tease out there. That makes sense to me.

Thanks, Ben. All right, moving on next. Next up is Ben Cohen from RBC. Ben, if you can unmute yourself.

Ben, hi there. Hi. Good morning, everyone. I think you can hear me. I had two questions, please. The first was just in terms of at the mix of where the growth in motor is coming from. I guess overall, it looks like your premium growth is really matching the number of policies that are growing. Does that have any implications in terms of the growth in terms of lower premium policies versus higher premium policies? Could you maybe talk about your competitiveness in different kind of subparts of the market? And the second question was just in terms of the motorcycle business. I think I took away that despite the fact that losses kind of increased in the first half of the year on the first half of last year, that you're still quite confident with the new strategy that basically you're going to be moving that into profitability soon. Could you maybe just talk about how you think that is going to come through given that the loss ratios at the moment are running pretty high? Thank you.

Yeah sure I'll start with the motorcycle one I mean I guess in some ways it's simply a function of quite low earned premium in there you have one large claim and not much earned premium it has an outside impact on the loss ratio clearly as we earn more premium through the second half of this year that impact will naturally naturally subside anyway so we're pretty confident we're right in motorcycle at the right margin that will all come through as we get towards the towards the year end.

Matt anything you want to add on? Motorcycle? Yeah I would say on motorcycle with the half year where it's halfway through the peak season of the riding we tend to see claims more weighted towards the half year but when that's happened therefore there's less developments so as the year goes on these claims develop we get more there'll be less volatility in those claims therefore we can be more confident in the edible loss ratio which is also something similar last year where we're at 100% loss ratio at half year on motorcycle and by year end that improves down to roughly 70.

And growth in motor, there's no great change actually. I think our mix is pretty similar. Clearly bike is a lower premium. That will start to impact the overall average premium number you might look at. We're not seeing any loss in our normal markets. As we start to roll out ambition 2030, that will be slightly lower average premiums. So you should expect to see that natural migration over time.

Matt, anything you want to add on that? I think all I'd say is that a general mix for core motor is as expensive. The pricing trials continue on a very gradual basis and we are seeing that growth on motorcycle from the direct rollouts continuing.

Thank you very much.

Back to you. It seems like the last question is from Carl from Berenberg, Jeff.

Okay. You can unmute yourself. Perfect. You can go back on mute again.

Can you hear me now?

Loud and clear.

Okay, great. Most of it answered already, but I just had one on AI and whether you're seeing it being used a bit more frequently by customers. um or kind of just in fraud related cases and and they're being used to kind of create some maybe elaborate claims uh which which um you know which which which perhaps are you hadn't been seen in the past that are kind of linked to these other models and is that a trend that you're seeing at all sure you can talk about that in a second you know i think we can definitely see ai being used in i please say we don't get all that many complaints but you can definitely see ai being used to generate those letters some of which

don't make a lot of sense because it's quite some US case law and all that sort of nonsense. Trevor, in terms of where we are in terms of AI in claims we're seeing today?

Yes, so we are absolutely vigilant for it in terms of generation of images. We are still traditionally in a lot of the things that we do in terms of inspecting vehicles physically, sending people out to take statements and actually go to the scene of accidents. So we're using those tools to help assist us in identifying potential fraud. And we're very front loaded in terms of our fraud management. I think I would echo what Jeff said around complaints, that's probably why it's most prevalent. You may also see that there's quite a lot of commentary in terms of how lawyers have been using AI, not so much in our our space but where they generate or where AI is generating reference to case law that simply doesn't exist so we're being we're vision for it we're we've given out a lot of training in terms of sort of the features to to look out for we're not seeing huge amounts of it though thank you thank you for talking we're going to talk a bit about where we see claims frequency going at the moment not really copying the conversation might see a minute on that Yes, so I think what I'd say is having seen a period where claims frequency was improving, we're actually seeing sort of in the most recent periods claims frequency easing back up again. There was potentially an expectation that as fuel prices went up earlier in the year that that would have had an impact on frequency. We've not seen that. on the personal injury side it's pretty flat so again it sort of fell around 2024 but we're not seeing we're not really seeing that that come down any further and I guess the linking frequency we've obviously seen pressure around personal injury particularly the low value in terms of severity and some of the changes that's come through that we talked about previously so We don't see necessarily good guys coming through on frequency or severity and hence our view really that mid-digit inflation needs to be thought about. Yeah. Thank you.

Can I answer your question?

Very clear. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. There's one question on the Q&A which I've just spotted from Ivan as a follow-up. which is can we provide some colour on reinsurance renewals, price retention, how we should think about gross versus net premiums going forward. Overall, reinsurance pricing across the market, reinsurance pricing on XRL seems to have come down a bit in the last year or two. I think probably the reinsurance market had priced pretty heavily for Ogden over the previous period and there's a bit of a correction gone on in the last year or two to bring some of those are prices down a bit if you want to do some performing portfolio retention I think our views we have as I think everyone knows an XOL retention just over a million our general view is we should inflate that gently as the years go by we're not looking for a sudden jump but I think we'll just need to ease up our retention in future periods gross versus net premiums going forward Adam do you want to say anything on that one I mean there's nothing really surprisingly expected on gross versus net premiums we've

pay our insurance premium on a premium basis. So the current net earned premium in any six month period reflects the prevailing rates at the time.

Thank you. Anything else? I'll just pause for a second. Okay. In that case, thank you all very much for your time. Appreciate your time. Appreciate the questions. Anything you think of afterwards, I'm very happy to have calls later on today. We're around all today and most of the rest of the week. Thank you much and speak to many of you soon. Thank you