Seeing Machines Limited

Good morning and welcome to the Seeing Machines Limited results presentation. Throughout this recording meeting, investors will be in listen-only mode. Questions are encouraged and can be submitted at any time via the Q&A tab situated in the right-hand corner of your screen. Just simply type in your question and press send. The company may not be in a position to answer every question it receives during the meeting itself. However, the company can review all questions submitted today and publish responses where it's appropriate to do so. Before we begin, we'd like to submit the following poll. I'd now like to hand you over to Paul McGowan, CEO. Good morning, sir.

Good morning and thank you and thank you to everybody that's joining the call today. There's a bit of material to go through today. Some of it will go through quickly because it's already been announced and it's no point really going over information already out there. There have been a large number of questions, as usual, so we've categorised those and the majority will attempt to answer as we go through the presentation. The balance will cover live at the end. In roughly an hour after the end of the presentation, the material will be uploaded to the website, so you'll all be able to take a look there. So, kick off with the usual disclaimer, which I won't be reading out this morning, but just a reminder, today we're focused on transport, three key areas, automotive, passenger vehicles, aftermarket and aviation. Our purpose is to get everyone home safely. We are 20 years in the business, lots of research backs up the products and the delivery and also the performance in the programs that we operate for our OEM customers. In summary, we are expecting our automotive royalties to grow very substantially, driven by the changing regulations that kick in in July 26th this year in Europe. And just as a reminder, that means that every vehicle sold in Europe from them must have a camera-based driver monitoring system installed. Now, today, if we look at our market position on a production volume basis, so not on a reported win basis, but on how many units of our software are going into new vehicles compared to everyone else's, we have around a 50% share. Now, this is a really important number today and over the next two years, and in particular as GSR kicks in in July. So we're very confident of a strong uptick between now and then, and certainly over the next few years. Our Guardian product, we are also confident will achieve substantial growth. It's driven by a whole range of factors, including regulations in the US, But general road safety advocates everywhere else in the world, and of course we have some new collaboration partners, not the least of which is Bitsavishi, and we're starting to see wins occur through that relationship. The investment phase of the business over the last few years is largely complete, so we will see benefits of scale going forward, both in our R&D expenditure and our operating costs, and that will be made clear today as Martin goes through the numbers. We're recommitting to cash flow break even run rate at the end of this calendar and cash generative in this fiscal year and that's a very solid and important commitment from us in the management. Just some highlights. The Mitsubishi investment in December last year, very, very important. Obviously the money's important but I think as I sit here today, more important than that is the breadth and depth of areas that we're working on together, both in our current core business, but also exploring opportunities that are outside of our core, but very much in the core of Mitsubishi. In terms of production volumes, 35% up on 24 in the last fiscal year, just over 1.5 million. The commitment we made around cost has been achieved and that cost run rate improvement is now embedded in our monthly numbers and our outlook. Guardian is in production and arguably the sales aren't materialising as quickly as some would like, but it's pretty consistent with the sales pipeline and the time that it takes to get these sales through and I'll go through that in a little more detail shortly. Regulations are really important. got us here in Europe. If we look at 25, there's been a sort of a redoubling on semi-autonomous driving and now on impairment. And if we look out beyond 25, we see the regulations continuing to evolve. And this is very, very important, not just for Europe, but also for other markets. So what we expect from this is the regulations will drive new requirements, new requirements will drive new and improved features. Those requirements will have positive pressure on our average selling price and also create a much broader and deeper regulated requirement for this tech worldwide and I think it's very, very clear now that that is underway. Just a reminder on the market opportunity. We've been through this before so I won't belabor it. The opportunity in automotive is defined here as the market that we're in today. So driver and occupant monitoring software, kind of as it stands. As I just mentioned, I do expect this to grow as features grow, driven by the expanding requirements of the regulators and also the expanding requirements of OEMs to drive more capability inside the cabin. But by far and away, Our aftermarket business has the largest addressable market. There are also more competitors there for sure, but we do see that going forward as a major opportunity for us. We're going to deliver this through partners, and I think our message around the people that we collaborate with has been very, very consistent over several years. And I'll just talk about a couple of these. Cat, a very enduring relationship. And we are still very much in alignment on product development for the verticals that they own. And I'm very confident we'll see continued growth through our relationship with Caterpillar. At Valeo, we acquired a business called Asifis from them. I was there yesterday in Berlin. Very capable software engineering team. And that's really pulled us closer to Valeo. We're developing our products with them. more of a platform way that will drive efficiency and reuse so that they can sell better outcomes to their customers. Mitac, they're the provider of our out-of-the-face camera and we're working very closely with them on a whole range of options including product development and distribution and so on. Magna, a very long and enduring relationship with them. I think everybody knows there are two two sort of aspects to our relationship. One was exclusivity, which Magna acquired for three years. That concluded in June, just passed, and Magna have enjoyed the benefit of that exclusivity and have really got a position in the market today where they have what is a world leading product. We didn't renew the exclusivity that we had in the past. Neither of us saw the need. The reality is we've built a platform with Magna that is very unique to them, high performing, and we continue to work with them to develop new levels of capability and features. So I don't see any change at all in the relationship between ourselves and Magna. Finally, just Mitsubishi. Again, we're working on a whole range of opportunities in our core business. Significantly automotive in Japan, but also in their push to resell our aftermarket products, first in the Americas, which we signed several months ago, and now in Europe. So I am expecting significant opportunity from that. Importantly though, the Mitsubishi opportunity is opening up new adjacent markets. Now today, as I've said many times, we've been completely focused on automotive. And the question around whether we should be in adjacent markets has been asked many times and under our own steam, we'd most likely defer this given our focus on auto and getting the profitability in the light. But with Mitsubishi working with us in parallel, they've identified a range of new adjacent markets where they have significant strength around the world and we are now in the early stages of planning to determine where we can implement our technology to enhance their existing capabilities. And on this portfolio of opportunities, the two hard circles, both insurance and smart factory, are the ones that we've prioritised together and are being led by Mitsubishi. So I think this is a very exciting new chapter in our story. I want to just revisit for a minute the business model, and let's start with automotive. I think most people are very aware of how we go to market, but we essentially go to market through tier ones. There are relationships with other participants in the value chain, like the silicon guys, and we have some conversations, typically on a technical basis, direct with OEMs. Now, we're driven by two factors. and the increasing penetration of semi-autonomous driving features and now full autonomous driving features. We make money through royalties, engineering services, some R&D, licensing, and on occasion, but rarely exclusivity, as was the case with Magna. But I just want to draw your attention to really the business development and implementation process on the bottom of this page. So we start with a request for information, and as we begin to answer those questions, T1s and OEMs formulate a view around what they want to put in a request for quote. We finally receive a request for quote, multiple parties receive these, and we begin a negotiation, presenting a technical offer, presenting a price. And just so that it's clear, sometimes these RFQs we have four or five rounds of price negotiation, and sometimes we have 15 rounds of price negotiation. And then within that, there are often delays brought about by, as those things are being negotiated, changes that the OEM wants to implement before they issue the award. So it's a bit how long is a piece of string, but typically six to 18 months. Once the program is won, 12 to 36 months developing the tech with, in our case, typically the tier one, and then once we've hit start of production, depending on the production run, three years or between three and seven years sometimes. So it's a very long lead-in process, but it's also a very long and enduring relationship. If we look at... our business today, and I'll just get you to focus on the black line. That's the line that we believe represents market share today on a production basis, not on a reported sales win basis over time, but on vehicles hitting the road with DNS technology inside. So 3.7 million cars, and for us that's about half of the market so far. As you look at the longer term, we are being a bit more conservative. We assume competition will arrive, certainly as we've looked at what others say they've won over time. We think a 35% share, perhaps a 40% share of revenue, 35% of volume is an appropriate level for us. Could be higher, could be lower. But GSR is really supporting this, and certainly over the next two or three years, if you look at the dark green bars, 26, 27 and 28, That is a significant increase in production volumes driven by GSR largely, but not entirely, and based on work that we've already won. Now, the OEM customers that we serve today will sell, in 26, around 12.5 million vehicles. Now, just to be clear, some of those OEMs, we are the sole provider, and some of them are shared between us and our competitors. So it isn't a direct relationship for us to win the 12.5. But my point here is that's the number for our existing customers. So we do expect a material proportion of that to flow directly to us. The other thing I want to say here, and this is related to a lot of the questions that were asked, what's going on with RFQs? So, look, We don't delay the RFQs, the OEM does, and unfortunately there's been a litany of delay month after month, quarter after quarter. But as it stands today, again, we have a substantial number of RFQs on our book that we're actively working on. Of those, just over half are Japanese OEMs, followed by Europe, and then the US. Of those, about one quarter of those RFQs are based on the mirror location, the rest, multiple different camera locations. Our latest information, and again, this is subject to change at the OEM, but just to give you our latest information, is that half of the RFQs that we're working on are planned to be awarded this half, i.e. by December this year, and the other half in FY26, the second half of FY26. So hopefully that gives you a refreshed picture of where we are with RFQs. We know the reasons for delay. You can see where we're at with share and importantly what that means for us as we approach July 26 and the GSR top dead day. In aftermarket, I'll just draw your attention to a couple of points here. Look, we make money here in a few different ways. Obviously the monitoring is key. hardware sales, installation fees, we have some NRE for specific developments, and we license also. We sell direct and through channels. Some of the channels are very large, others are more localized, and there's a real mix. The after manufacture opportunity is opening up, driven by GSR, but what's interesting is we're also seeing a strong pull OEM fitment in Asia Pacific and ANZ in particular. Now that's not driven by GSR. That's driven by customer demand. So in those markets where we have a significant position, our existing customers are asking us, why can't we buy this in the truck when we acquire it? So we have recently entered into some new arrangements to provide our product through that channel. Just to... because there's been a lot of questions asked, there is a substantial sales process and lead time in this market also. So if you think about it, other than Asia Pacific, where we've been for a while, Europe and the US are really new markets for us. And whilst everyone on this call knows who we are, there are plenty of people in Europe and the US who don't. It's a new opportunity in a very material market. We have to create the prospects, leads and qualify them. We go through the usual process of technical presentations and often early stage commercial presentations. In new markets, typically a trial is required. Our trials used to be on average much longer and we tried to compress them into a sort of a three part, six week trial. After that, there's a review and all kinds of people in the organisation are typically the customer organisation that is typically involved in that. Then we get into commercials and then finally a deal and we start the installation process. So it does not happen overnight, but the good news is that we have a very material pipeline and just, Martin will go through that, but just to give you a little more colour, we announced a small win yesterday and That was with MEAA in the US. In and of itself, it doesn't really move the needle, but what is mission-critical important here is that it's the first opportunity that MEAA have gone through, start to finish, and working with us to close a deal that's a customer of theirs. So the knowledge is in place, the processes are in place, and the ability to close is in place. And I'll just remind everybody that their customers in the US alone manage more than one million trucks. In addition, in the US, we're in the final commercial negotiations with a large opportunity, probably the largest opportunity, the single opportunity that we've seen today. Similarly in Europe, and in particular in the GSR environment, we're in the final stages there also on several, but one in particular, material opportunities. APAC is really a large... of existing customers where there's a really strong organic growth possibility. And then just to wrap up on this, we're seeing a resurgence in BDMS as the robo-taxi market is picking up a new head of steam. So that looks interesting for us this year. So despite, I guess, the questions and despite the concern over why it's taking so long, all of the things that you would expect to see leading up to a SAIA are in fact happening. In aerospace, it's a little different. Mind you, because we're completely connected to Collins, mind you, we have the first capability in an aircraft. So we have been the first, and that's with Air Ambulance Victoria. We're in at least a dozen pilot training simulators, and we have very strong relationships with key players. That's a little slower for us, but we are with a major partner and it's a very small investment from us on the way through.

I'll hand over to Martin. Thanks, Paul. Good morning, everyone. Great to be back here in London. What I'd like to do, particularly given we've provided the trading update and the KPIs already for FY25, is not spend so much time going through the detail of the FY25 numbers, but maybe focusing on a few key themes that really flow through. You see them in the numbers for 25, but then really flow through and impact 26, and getting to that cash flow break-even run rate, and ultimately, how do we deal with the convertible note with Magna? So those three things, and you can see them Here in the 25 numbers, it's the growth of auto royalties. So we saw about 30% growth in auto royalty revenue for 25. And as Paul mentioned, the impact of the GSR introduction in July 26 will really be what pushes auto royalties forward in FY26. We've got the transition from Gen 2 to Gen 3 in Guardian, which obviously had a negative in FY25 that we expect to see with the strong pipeline that we've got an increase in revenue from that product or from the Gen 3 product in FY26. And then also the cost reduction program that we went through in FY25, which really starts us out at a good base from a cost perspective as we go into 26. And you can see that there was some impact of that in the FY25 numbers. So going through into the performance of 25, you know, a decrease in revenue compared to 24, which is largely down to two items, one being the Guardian Gen 2 to Gen 3 transition and also a reduction in revenues from aviation. So that in total, from a hardware perspective and an aviation perspective, And that's really what led to the decline now. We had some areas where we had increases. But the major thing here that I just kind of want to talk to is the reference we have now to adjusted revenue versus statutory revenue and what really drives that and why we've decided to use adjusted revenue. And this really comes from the guaranteed, minimum guaranteed royalty agreements that we have with a number of that have started to go into production at the end of 25 and there will be some additional programs that will go into production in 26. So this will also be an impact that we see in the FY26 numbers. So just to kind of outline what these agreements mean, we have agreed to get a guaranteed minimum amount of volume and therefore revenue on a periodic basis or on an annual basis all those programs from one of the tier one customers that we have. So those amounts are fixed at the start of the agreement. They're paid on an ongoing schedule over the five year or six year period of the program. But they also enable us to receive additional revenue on top of those minimums if the volumes are higher in any particular year. So from an accounting point of view, we get to a point where we have a fixed fee and we don't have any dependency on us for either a contingent volume or for any additional deliverables. So therefore, that fixed amount needs to be recognised upfront. And this is what has happened with the program that went into production in the fourth quarter of FY25. So using that as an example, we recognised the 10.2 million in June. will then receive the cash as those minimum volumes come through over the period of the program which is a five or six year program. So statutory revenue 10.2 upfront and then in any particular year where our actual volumes exceed the minimums, we'll have additional revenue recognised in those years. From an adjusted revenue point of view, and I think this matches more closely with how we view performance and then also cash flow, is for us to recognise or include adjusted revenue as and when we see that production happen and the amount to owe to us. So again, using that 10.2 million, the amount due to us or paid to us prior to the end of FY25 were between six and 700,000. So that's what we've included. from an adjusted revenue perspective and as we go through the remainder of that program we will be including in adjusted revenue the volumes and the revenue associated with those volumes as the program progresses. I think that's more aligned with demonstrating our performance for those particular periods. Just to kind of then focus on what does that mean for FY26. So we have three additional programs that do have minimum guarantees. the amount of those minimum guarantees for the additional programs is $42 million. So we're likely to see those go into production in FY26 and have that additional statutory revenue. We won't be booking for an adjusted revenue perspective those amounts, but just to give you an indication of how they flow through, it'll be about $1 million worth of adjusted revenue in the first half, and then an additional $5.5 million in the second half. I think that that ramp there also demonstrates what we're expecting to see from a royalty perspective in terms of the lead into the GSR implementation in July of 26. And then as we go into FY27, the amount of the minimums there will be around $13 million from a cash perspective, which will be the minimum from an adjusted revenue perspective. So continuing on with auto, just to give a quick overview of 25, we saw an increase of around 30% in royalty revenue throughout the year. You can see on the left hand side in the pie chart there that the mix from auto is starting to shift more and more to royalties and away from NRE and that will be something that we continue to see as we go through to FY26 and I'll just run through a little bit more about that later in the presentation. In terms of aftermarket, the impact of the reduction in revenues from CAT, we had the one-off licensing revenue at the end of FY24 as well as the royalties which have now discontinued. The impact of that as well as the hardware was about $17 million in terms of reduction. You see that there in the right-hand chart. The recurring revenue continues to increase, albeit it's plateaued a little bit as part of this transition from Gen 2 to Gen 3. But as the revenues and the unit volume starts to pick up for Gen 3 throughout FY26, we'll see an acceleration of that ARR number and the monitoring revenue. And then finally, from a revenue perspective, just to touch a little bit on aviation, as we've kind of talked about previously in the town hall, We've had a bit of a pause with a restructure in Collins during FY25. So the revenues that we recognise there from an NRE and a licensing perspective reduced. We do expect to see the activity there pick up as we go into calendar year 26, and we do have a number of opportunities for sales of our technology into simulators, and that will be largely what underpins the aviation revenue, particularly in the first half. Then going on to the cost management, we talked about this at the town hall back in April where we just kind of started the major process or finished the major process of headcount reductions and restructuring in the organisation. That had pretty much been finished by the time we got to Q4, the end of the June period. There were some sort of changes that were really finalised in July, so we'd expect to see a full year of the benefit of those changes that we have made. Obviously some of the impacts, given that we started the process back in December, made its way into the second half numbers and you can see when you look at the first half versus second half splits of operating costs, including that capitalised R&D element, we had a significant improvement in the second half compared to the first half. and that'll be something that we expect to see continue as we go through FY26. So I'd just like to change up now and go through some of the impacts that we have talked about here and that Paul has talked about and what we're seeing as we go through into FY26. So in terms of revenue mix, we're starting to see a much larger proportion of the higher margin revenue stream flow through. We saw that with auto, so we're seeing a significant increase in the proportion of auto royalties and royalties overall. In addition, what we'll see in FY26 is a significant increase in the proportion of hardware. And as part of this transition from Gen 2 to Gen 3 in our market, Gen 2 ended up being a very low margin product at the end where we were seeing less than 10% margin on each hardware sale. As we go through into sales of Gen 3, it's a significantly higher margin that we're seeing there, and it's much cheaper for us in terms of cost of service from a monitoring perspective. So those services that you see there are largely the driver monitoring services for Guardian, for the upmarket business unit, with a significantly higher margin with Gen 3 compared to Gen 2. It will take a while for that transition to happen from a services perspective, particularly given we've got around 45,000 units of Gen 2 that we're currently monitoring, but over time we'll start to see the benefit of that as we go through FY26. The biggest change here that we see is in relation to NRE, so a significant reduction in NRE for around 20%, down to probably somewhere between 5% and 10% for FY26. That's largely because of, as Paul mentioned, some work that we'll be doing with ACPS from platform development. That significantly reduces and what we're starting to see is a much higher level of reuse in terms of technology with new program awards. Flowing through then into auto royalties and, you know, We've talked about this for a number of years with the pending implementation of GSR from July 26. Paul also talked about it. This is what we or how we currently view that kind of growth in volumes as we go through the next four quarters. We saw things pick up in the second half of FY25 and we put a benchmark or reference point for getting to that break-even cash flow position in our December course of around 750,000 units. The increase in volumes that we're seeing are really generated in FY26 from the EU and those GSR regulations. We have a number of new programs that go into production during FY26, one in the first half and then another three in the second half. and the take-up rate that we'll see for those EU programs will significantly increase. We talked about that at the town hall being somewhere around 10% fitment rate. That, over the next four quarters for the EU programs, will be going up to 100%. So from an EU perspective, using now the Q4 numbers as a baseline, we see that increasing fitment being somewhere between five to six times what we saw at the end of Q4. So it's pretty significant. By the time we get to the run rate at the end of June, what's going to be needed July and onwards, we'll be looking at somewhere around 2 million units per quarter as we go through the start of FY27. But for us, I think the important thing is getting to 750,000 units during Q2 and then starting to see those volumes increase as we go through Q3 and Q4 above a million units per quarter. So just going through now to Guardian and just have a look, Paul mentioned the pipeline and went through some of the specific opportunities. Just kind of want to talk a little bit about the different nature of the pipeline in each of the regions. In the US, significant number of referrals from the Mitsubishi North America customer base. They've got over a million trucks that are starting to flow through the pipeline and we started to see the first referral deals close. Also we've got a direct team there that are focused on other large fleets and they're particularly focused on fleets where there have been a fatality. Those tend to be larger fleets and given that there isn't the same regulation in North America that we see being introduced in the EU, focusing on fleets where there have been a fatality just gives us a higher probability of a focus on safety and reducing the impact of fatalities throughout those fleets. So those larger opportunities tend to take a little bit longer to work through the pipeline. They all tend to go through a very structured trial process. So we expect to see the impact of those really kind of starting to influence our second half numbers. In terms of EMEA, we do have a number of large fleets there, but also driven by GSR and particularly the after-manufacture fitment business. And then with ANZ particularly, we've also got a number of distributors there and also ongoing customers where we're looking to expand the penetration that we have within their fleet. So ANZ, much quicker in terms of the flow through of the pipeline. That'll really be what is driving near-term opportunities. Q2 and the second half is really going to be driven by North America and EMEA. Just going through operating expenses, I kind of talked about the cost management processes that we've been through. Here we're just kind of demonstrating the impact that we've seen as a significant decrease of around $8.6 million. in cost from what we saw at the peak point in December of 2023. The impact of that will continue to flow through the rest of FY26, so starting off with a really good base from a cost perspective to be able to get to that casualty break-even position. A similar table that we went through in April, which was focused on the first half of FY25 as the reference point, but now looking at the second half of FY25 as the basis and how the impact of the three elements that we've been speaking about impacts and gets us to that cash flow break even run rate at the end of this calendar year. The run rate that we have at the end of the second half is just over $2 million of adjusted EBITDA loss or cash burn per month. The flow through impact of the cost management changes that we've made will be around $460,000 for the rest of the first half, so they're either the items that were of done late in the half and then the impact of the changes that we made in December and also at the end of March flowing through for the rest of the first half of FY26 around $460,000 gets us down to a cash burn of just over or just under $1.6 million per month. The remainder is all coming from the benefit that we see with auto royalties 100% flow through going from an average of around $420,000 per quarter in the second half of 2025, looking to get to that $750,000 per quarter for Q2 of FY26. That gives us the benefit of around $800,000 per month, just under $2.5 million per quarter. And then from a Gen 3 perspective, getting to the point where we're selling our production capacity run rate at the moment at 6,000 units per quarter. That will give us also around $800,000 of gross profit benefit per month. So those elements combined giving us to that cash flow breakeven run rate and then as we go through into the second half, obviously the increase in royalties in particular taking us to the point where we'll be generating cash for the second half of the financial year. So just to close out and summarise that, we've got a cash balance. in June of just over $22 million, looking to get to that break-even run rate at the end of the calendar year, so the end of Q2 for us, based on the table that we just went through previously, and then being in a positive position for the second half of FY26 and then going through for the full year and into FY27. We'll be in a position towards the end of the 26th calendar year where we're generating around $10 million of cash per quarter. We have a convertible note maturing with Magna in October 26. So the focus for us is maximise cash generation prior to that point, building up cash reserves which will give us the maximum number of opportunities to be able to meet those note obligations. And we have already commenced the process to secure additional debt facilities to use in that mix of repayment options of the convertible loan. That's the summary. I'll just hand over to Paul before we go to any Q&A.

Okay, thanks. Thanks, Martin. So just from me, without repeating the whole presentation again, we'll see this year high double-digit growth in revenue. We'll see margins north of 60%. The cost reduction is already in place and we have line of sight profitability. I think that's very, very important and we're completely focused on that and will remain so for the rest of this fiscal year. And in addition though, we are seeing real opportunity for outperformance driven by GSR and some really important new opportunities that we'll manage appropriately presented to us through our relationship with Mitsubishi. So at that point I'll leave it there and many of the questions I think that were We've answered along the way but we will open to questions that have come through.

Fantastic. Paul Martin, thanks very much indeed for your presentation. Let's move on to those questions. We've received a number of questions from investors so thank you for those that have come through, some of which by their nature will be best answered by the team in writing with those responses published on the InvestorMeet company platform. You will of course be notified once they're ready for your review. Let's start with the first question we've got here from Paul. It reads as follows. Tobel claims they've won a major North European German automotive manufacturer. It seems to be suggested it's BMW. Have we lost BMW in the future as a customer? If we have, what might that reason be?

Yeah, it's a bit difficult to be super specific because I didn't make that claim, someone else did. But look, OEMs, if we look at the pattern of OEM purchasing from the beginning of this process until now, many OEMs have elected to go with multiple suppliers for each new generation of software. And that's completely normal and entirely to be expected. And this is a good example. Now, that was known to us three years ago. It's included in our forecast. And it very absolutely doesn't mean that If you lose a program to a party, you can't win another program with the same party. It happens all the time. It's the standard operating model for the OEMs. So I think what they've reported is true, but it's normal business. It's not unusual.

Fantastic. Thank you. Two questions from David. Thank you, David. I think you touched on this in the presentation, but if there's anything further to add. How is our relationship with Magna since their exclusivity expired? And also just touching on the Town Hall of October, your reference perspective after manufacture contracts of 50,000 to 100,000 units, are those types of GC contracts still possible?

Okay, so the first question, I think I did answer that during the presentation, and our relationship is good and we're continuing to bid for new business. So I'll leave that one there. On the after manufacture, you know, what I said was that there are roughly 300,000 new trucks and buses that are sold into Europe each year and they are a new opportunity because we wouldn't have had that opportunity in the past. So depending on what ASP you want to put on that, you can figure out the addressable market. It's pretty significant. Now, some of the deals that we're negotiating now are for companies that produce several thousand units a year. And the important part about this is that unlike our traditional aftermarket business where we're selling to existing operating fleets, this tends to be a rolling contract of perhaps three or five years. So we do expect the volumes to be larger and more committed than in our traditional aftermarket business.

Thank you very much. Question from Robert. If the business becomes cash flow positive in 2026 as planned, will the business look at measures to improve the share price like a share buyback program?

Look, once we're profitable in generating cash, I think there are all sorts of opportunities that present themselves, whether they be capital management or otherwise. And, you know, we are very focused on the share price, and, you know, you actually might say, well, it doesn't look like it, given where it is today. But all of the things that we're doing in our normal course, for example, focusing on delivering high-quality programs that actually result in royalty flood, I think two quarters from now, it will become evident that that effort was well worth it. So getting to profit is our first objective. Once we're there, we will explore all opportunities to maximise the share price.

Thanks, Paul. Question from Liam. There are constant reports of China introducing new cars worldwide, e.g. BYD. How will China growth impact on seeing machines business?

Well, interestingly, all the numbers that we present here exclude China. That's the first thing. But in parallel, we are developing our own China strategy, and it isn't the same as what we've executed in the rest of the world. We're working through partners to deliver specific sets of features that are at the right price point at a far lower cost, and our objective is to participate in that growth particularly for those Chinese OEMs that export through our partners. So we'll have more to say about that sort of in coming quarters, but it is a live strategy that we're working on and these numbers exclude the Chinese market entirely.

Thanks, Paul. Question from Michael. Your slides show a sharp drop-off in your market share from 2026 onwards. Why is this? Does this give weight to the general chatter that you're losing customers or that competitors, even small ones, are winning large contracts or OEMs doing in-house solutions? They cite examples such as BMW, Volvo, etc.

No, it doesn't. I think the thing that skews that picture is that it isn't a flat 35%. And so we're looking at royalty flow and we know what the numbers are today because they're more or less published. Certainly we publish them Now, despite what all of the participants have claimed to win, on a quarter-by-quarter basis, we have around 50% of the total market. That's a fact. But we also assume, given all of the news that's been out there now probably for more than a few years, that an appropriate share position for anyone in automotive, about a third is probably the right number. So it's not reflective of losses. It's not reflective of people winning business that we're not bidding for. Nothing material has been bid or won. It's entirely reflective of our outlook and represents a position that we think is a comfortable position to attain. So it's not a mathematical construct. The mathematical construct is in the nearing years where we know what the royalty flows are, but beyond, say, two years out, it's more of a reasonable assumption for the long run.

Thanks, Paul, and thank you for answering those questions. Of course, as mentioned earlier, the company will review all questions submitted today and we'll publish those responses on the Invest and Meet company platform. You will be notified of those as well. Before redirecting investors to provide you with their feedback, it's no particularly important to you and the team. Paul, could I just ask you for a few closing comments please?

Yeah, firstly thank you for staying with us. Thank you for attending this session. Hopefully we've provided you with some new insight and that new insight, certainly as far as we're concerned, underpins the confidence that we have in the short term future of our business and in particular in so far as it relates to getting to profitability. But I think you can also see that moving out two or three years, we expect the growth in our high margin revenue lines to continue. And we'll be prosecuting that argument for the rest of the week as we're here talking shareholders in London. But thank you all for your time this morning.

Fantastic. Paul Martin, thank you indeed for updating Investivity. Please ask investors not to close this session. You should be automatically redirected to provide your feedback in order the team can better understand your views and expectations. It will only take a few moments to complete. I'm sure it's greatly valued by the company. On behalf of the management team of Seeing Machines Limited, we'd like to thank you for attending today's presentation. That concludes today's session and good morning to you all. Thank you.