Seplat Energy Plc

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to CEPLAT Energy PLC Half Year Results 2024. The presentation will commence shortly. After the presentation, we will conduct a Q&A session. If you wish to ask a question, you will be able to ask a question either through the Zoom webinar link provided separately or by submitting written questions using the Ask a Question button on the Spark Live webcast page. If you have joined us via Zoom webinar, please note this call is being live streamed to a webcast for a wider audience and will be recorded. By participating in the Zoom webinar, you are agreeing that recordings made during this event may be shared by Ceplat Energy PLC. I would now like to hand over to James Thompson, Head of Investor Relations, to open the presentation.

Thank you very much, Victoria. Hello, everybody. Good afternoon. Welcome to Ceplat Energy's financial results for the first half of 2024. On the call today, we have our CEO, Roger Brown, CFO, Eleanor Adara Legbe, and our COO, Samson Ezeori. We'll first present our business and financial highlights, followed by the outlook. And after this, we'll move to Q&A. Before we start, I'd encourage you to take note of the forward-looking statement on slide two. And I'll now pass you over to Roger on slide four to start with the overview. Roger, over to you. Thank you.

Good afternoon or good morning, depending where you are. Perhaps good evening. Welcome everyone to the 2024 first half results. So we go on page four, slide four, we set out a couple of metrics. Obviously our first half production is strong at 48,000 barrels of oil equivalent. And that is right in the middle of our guidance, slightly down in the last year at 50. We've been maintaining the Q2 2024 core dividends. So this is, we've committed to 12 cents a year, and therefore we're paying three cents a share, which we paid next month. We are looking at adjusted revenue of $477 million in line with the six months of last year. That's consistent from our operations. And the final one on that slide is, looking at just the EBITDA. So our EBITDA is 267 million ahead of the equivalent period of 2023, that's up 13%. And this is obviously on the back of a strong cost performance. So the underlying business is robust, is strong, and this is what we've demonstrated in the first half results. If I move now into the next slide, slide five, And we highlight some of the strategic growth ambitions that we have. We have some slides at the end to deal with this, but we look at the Anand Gas project. So it was a very much a monumental period in the quarter or the first half when we actually had President Tanubu inaugurate our gas plant in May 2024. The Anugas project is making progress. We have the spur line, which is the one that connects it into the OB3, and it's reached mechanical completion. And the new OB3, I'll deal with this a little bit later and give you a lot more detail around it, but it is progressing well. Looking at mobile producing, the acquisition, we obviously extended the SBA in May. Quite a big milestone, obviously, was the important junction between NMPC and Exxon. That was in June. And obviously we're looking back to other approvals. And again, I'll get into this in one of the later slides and give you a lot more detail. Under the core business growth, we're seeing really good progress on our Elcrest assets with Sibiri, which was exploration we did years ago. We're now into production there. around 3,000 barrels of oil per day. Bruce and Sam will pick up on some of that. Abiala, which is a martial fuel we farmed into. The first well is now drilled and we're on the second. And in terms of the TMP pipeline, which is our eastern pipeline, that's now operational again. So we're now starting to put some eastern assets production through there. In terms of governance, we announced the another board director joining us on the 1st of April, Mr. Babs of Makua. And then delighted of the Eleanor. This is her first conference call with us as CFO. She took over on the 21st of May. Final one there is just in terms of just, you know, separate leading the way in terms of Nigeria and corporates. We are the early adopters of after S1 and S2, and that really is leading the market within Nigeria. So I will hand over to Sam and I, who will pick up the operational performance.

Thank you very much, Roger. Good morning, good afternoon, everyone, depending on where you're joining the call. I will run through the operational performance for the first half of 2024. During this period, our aggregate daily working interest production closed at slightly north of 48,000 barrels of oil equivalent, split 60-40 liquids and gas. Within the period, we also enjoyed availability, high availability on our export routes to the market, especially the Western asset with the TFP and AEP maintaining very strong availability within the first half of the year. Also, we enjoyed significant improvement in the security on the pipelines as well. We had pipeline losses of 3.1% within the half year period under consideration. These are consistent improvement in those two areas. And what is translated to as well is an improvement in the overall deferment at 24%. This is also underscored by the assumption of evacuation via the TMP as Roger highlighted earlier. At the moment, we are stabilizing and we would get into 24 hour evacuation via the TMP by the end of this quarter. In response to the stakeholder request as well, what we have done at the bottom left chart is to introduce the operating cost charts, just to ensure that we continuously demonstrate transparently how efficient we run the operations. If you look at the first six months of this year, our operating cost is at $9.7 per barrel of oil equivalent, a little bit higher than it was in the same period of last year, but much lower than our end year 2023, where we ended 10.4 dollars per barrel of oil equivalent in terms of cost. Just before I leave this slide, it would be nice for me also to highlight that we remain very committed to our upstream projects. We delivered Sibiri one and two wells within the period, now contributing about 3,000 barrels of oil per day. And we continue to drive our end of routine flaring projects to ensure that we stay committed on our emissions strategy as we already guided to half of next year in terms of bringing to an end all the routine flaring projects. If you go to the next slide, on slide eight, you will see our gas business So in the first half of the year, we also average working in gas production of 109 million scopes of gas per day with an average realized price of $2.95, a thousand scopes of gas. This increase is supported by higher domestic gas delivery obligations, which is now at $2.42 million BTU compared to $2.18 previously. this new price regime came into effect as of 1st of April this year. And if I move to annual, as Roger already highlighted, we made significant progress on the annual projects within this period. We achieved 97% completion. Pre-commissioning work project to operate activities are on track. Sportline achieved mechanical completion and OB3, Also, we have completed tunneling 1.1 kilometers of the OB3, remaining 750 meters to be completed while we continue and remain positive to our first gas promise of quarter three this year. If we move to the next slide on our CAPEX program, continues to be on track as well. We've invested $102 million of CAPEX in the first half of the year. This is split between $75 million on drilling activities and $26 million on engineering and gas projects. Our drilling program as well have witnessed some improvement over this period. At the end of the half of the year, we've completed four wells and four additional wells at advanced stages of completion as we speak. And we have five wells for the last end of third quarter and fourth quarter of this year with four active grids drilling across our businesses. So we have a line of sight to delivering the 13-well program that we have for the year. As I highlighted earlier, we continue to make good progress with our end of routine flaring projects. Sapele, our integrated gas plant, has a milestone for the second half of this year, and we are on track on that, while other projects like the Sapele and the Western Asset Flares Out projects, the Sapele LPG and the Open LPG or Haji Flares Out projects are all on track for delivery at the respective due dates. At this point, I would just like then to hand over to Eleanor, who will take us through financial performance for the period. Eleanor, over to you.

Thank you, Sam, and hello, everyone, and thanks for joining our call. So I have about four slides that I'll run through with you. So if you go to the first slide, please. So this financial performance actually demonstrates the stability of our operational environment that Sam had just run through with you. So if you look at our adjusted revenues, it's at $477 million. We did indeed benefit from favorable oil prices in this first half of the year. When you compare to the same period last year, it was slightly below. But that was really due to, you know, sort of lower production compared to the prior period. Unit OPEX, the BOE, fairly flat compared to prior periods. We do have some cost discipline that we've experienced in this first half of the year. And we believe that that will continue. Adjusted EBITDA positive, 13% over the same period last year. And then our pre-tax cash flow from operations also very positive. The second quarter of this period actually had the largest contribution of our pre-tax cash flow from operations. Again, some of that would have been better if we had the lifting, again, because the lifting sort of shifted into July. It's showing lower than last year, but a lot of that recovery will happen in the coming quarters. Net debt went up, but then this is after quite a number of things that we paid for in this first half of the year, but compared to last year, not too bad. I'll explain a little bit more in the coming slides. Roger mentioned dividend in line with our policy, our quarterly dividend. We are maintaining that for the shareholders and we'll be paying that next month. We'll be paying that. It's 3 cents per share. Two other points to highlight on this slide. On Anno, we are going to draw on an additional debt of $60 million. Again, that will support the completion of the work that we're doing at AGPC. Again, we are in a partnership with NMPC, the NGC. And so we would be, the funds are available for us to draw on. And then finally on this slide, we've amended our RCF. We've received all the necessary approvals needed and we've been able to keep that facility at $350 million. That then gives us the availability to support our proposed acquisition on MPNU. Next slide, please. So the next slide is a bit more detailed on the profit statements and showing the comparatives in a bit more detail. And you can see the point around the oil price that we've benefited from again. Oil revenue was lower, again, because of the lift-ins, partially offset by the higher oil prices. Gas revenue dipped a little bit because our volumes dropped, but obviously we had better gas prices, as Sam had mentioned in his presentation. Lower cost of sales, we had lower costs in our crude handling and some adjustments on royalties. And then we did come in low on GNA. Again, the same period last year, we had a lot more costs on legal and professional fees. And so we're coming low on GNA. Again, adjusting for underlift in this period, we had 849,000 barrels of oil that we didn't manage to lift at the end of the first half, which, you know, it's not unexpected to have the lifting shift period on period. Again, our goal is to try and and have that done at the end of the quarters that we are reporting. We also reflected an exchange rate gain. Again, that's really an accounting adjustment, reversing some of the losses we reported in prior period, mostly from revaluation of our working capital, mostly the liabilities. So net finance costs fairly flat compared to the last period. We did see a higher tax expense. What we were showing this period is an effective tax rate of 72%. And that really is the major reason why you see sort of the profit after tax lower than where we were last year. So we did end the period with $50 million, which translates to about 7 cents earnings per share. On the CapEx side, yes, we've spent about half of our expensive CapEx for the period. So we will likely be at the higher end of our CapEx guidance. And I already talked about the cash generated from operations. Next slide, please.

Okay, so a little bit more on our cash flow waterfall.

So we started the year with $450 million. generated cash flow from operations of 226 million. This period, there's quite some heavy lifting on our cash and some of what we will not see in the second half of the year. But we sufficiently had enough funds to settle our capital investments again. We typically would be funding our CapEx with our cash flow from operations. And then we had some tax payments as well. Again, that's also weighted heavily in the first half. you can see the benefits of LTIP and dividend that we paid. And in spite of all that, we still ended with a positive cash at $372 million. And this is in spite of the Naira devaluation. Recall that we had Naira valued at a shy of 900 Naira to the dollar at the end of last year. And now it's sort of close to 1500 Naira. We're doing well to sort of manage our Naira going forward. But the impact of that is what you're seeing on this cash flow waterfall. Next slide, please. So this slide just highlights in our balance sheets, which remains strong. Our gross debt at $737 million. Again, that went down from the same period last year. We've also settled some of our debt obligations, our RBL. We're starting to amortize that. And in spite of that, you know, our gross cash, you know, came in lower than sort of where we were at the end of last year. So net debt at 366 million. Again, I talked about the fact that we did have quite a number of cash payments that we settled in this first half. But net debts, our net debt to EBITDA is still very strong, way below our corporate policy and also very much lower than our debt covenants. So the final thing on this slide is really to sort of refresh, you know, reiterate the point spoken earlier around the RCF. We did get that RCF back up to 350 this month of July, so post the period end. But that just gives us the flexibility with our upcoming transactions. So our total liquidity is really at $722 million. It was at 605 at the end of June. The hedging, we've always hedged our crude between 60% and about 80% of our crude we hedged. And it's a deferred premium puts, and you can see the strike prices and the volumes that we've hedged for the third and the fourth quarter. Next slide, please. Thank you. I'm going to hand back to Roger.

Thanks, Eleanor. So let me just wrap up the presentation. So in the next slide, we presented this before. So this is an update of where we are on the growth opportunities. I'm going to deal with acquisition of mobile in the next slide after this one. So just wrap up the other four. Anu, I think we've covered it in previous slides. Sam certainly gave us an update on where we are. And the critical thing is the OB3 crossing on that one, which is a pipeline obviously being done with our partner, NMPC. I think we're through the difficult section of it. and it's now coming back up towards the other side of the river crossing. So it looks like there's good progress, but NNPC is taking its time, rightfully so, and we see that being completed next month. So that's Anno first gas on Q3 2024. We'll see the impact that we've said before we should be looking at steady state dividends of over 30 million a year, and quite a material amount of money coming back upstream to the wet gas sales, which will probably be an excess of a hundred million on an annual basis. It's very material for us, and we're looking forward to getting the first gas in operations. Aviana and Severi, obviously, and we talked about this, on Elcrest, our own L40, what it does do is it just extends the two operations there today, and the infrastructure being in place to be able to produce from Abiala and Sibiri. So first oil for Abiala, G3, and we're on track for that. Sibiri, we actually hit first oil in G1. So it's really about getting into steady state. SAPI gas plants, again, this year's gas plant and getting it operational. into Q, well, second half of this year into Q4. And what that will give us is a very long-term monetization of the separately gas reserves, which will then mean once it's operational and now it's operational, we will have in around 850 million SCUS a day of processing. So it's very material for us. Next slide, let me just talk about mobile. as much as we can talk about it. So let's give an update. I mean, obviously what's delayed us before has been the court case challenge between NNPC and Exxon that was removed in June. And obviously now all parties are trying to get a fast track closure of this. It is positive progress. There's some critical actions we're taking at the minute. The first one is the regulatory approvals. So we have two main regulators to deal with, which is the FCCPC, which is the Competition Commission. And that's where we get antitrust. And we need to clear that first before we can then really start to accelerate quickly. And then we have the NUPRC approvals, which is the upstream regulator. And those processes are happening. That process is underway at the minute. So we're hoping to clear the rectal approvals in the coming months. And then we actually have two other real main steps here, which is, we'll steal the third one first, which is the UK process. So obviously we need to go through the FCA because this is a reverse takeover. We don't see that bit necessarily being a complicated process, but there is a timeline to it. And should that happen, should go in line with the regulatory approvals under one. And then under number two there, which is operational readiness, this is getting ready to take over mobile producing. And of course, that's the bit we're talking about that we need to accelerate. Obviously, we need to get competition commission pre-approval first. In terms of the acquisition itself, just to... Professor reminds 1.283 billion acquisition plus 300 million contingent element to it. There is an effective date adjustment from 1st January 2021. And so obviously that then reduces the new world purchase consideration. And we've paid $128 million deposit and that sits ready to be applied. So our focus then is obviously going to be beyond the steps I've highlighted, is obviously providing the capital for it and getting the deal closed this year. So we're looking forward to it. We've made some good progress. We all want to make it faster than they are, but I think we are really positive in what we've achieved so far. So let me just wrap up with a final slide. And it's really looking at the guidance and priorities. So it's obviously, we've talked about mobile, anode and sapling. Sam's talked about the 13 wells, and we're confident that with the rigs we have on the base of the vineyard, we'll deliver the 13 wells and support the production. We've committed to end of routine flaring projects by the second half of next year. And therefore, this year and early into next year, we're going to deliver a number of key Flarezoic projects at Oban and Moot Bay, Sapley, GCK. And they're on track. We're comfortable with those. In terms of the fiscal strength, you know, Ellen has talked about this. It's really focused on ensuring the balance sheet is strong. We have the cash to make the acquisition. Looking at G&A costs and really looking to drive down, not just G&A, but operating costs as well. And then continue with the dividend. And obviously the dividend has some restrictions with the Euro bond we have. And at some point in the future, we will be obviously looking at refinancing options around the Euro bond. But effectively in the short term, we're paying right up to the core dividend. And then we have the ability to top up with a special dividend. In terms of the governance, we will be going out to some shareholders during this quarter, looking at a stakeholder survey as we're doing it, not just investors, but communities, government, et cetera. Final one is on the guidance items to refresh the memory. So we are at 48.4 at the minute, right in the middle of the guidance, and we maintain that guidance. CapEx, we are on track for 170 to 200. And in operating costs, we're in the 9.5 to 10.5. We're at 9.7 at the minute. We're confident we will maintain that. So here ends the H1 2024 slide presentation.

So I'll hand it back to the operator for Q&A.

Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Participants can submit questions in written format via the webcast page by clicking the ask a question button. If you are dialed into the call and wish to ask a question, please use the raise hand function at the bottom of your Zoom screen. If you are dialing in via phone, you can raise your hand using star nine and unmute yourself pressing star six. We will pause for a moment to assemble the queue. we'll take our first question from Nikhil Bhatt from JP Morgan. Please unmute yourself and ask your question.

Morning. Thank you for taking my question. I have a couple. First one for Roger. How long do you expect it to take you to complete the transaction with MPNU once you receive the regulatory approvals? Just a rough sense of an expected timeline would be really helpful. And then one for Eleanor. Welcome and thank you for your presentation. Question for you would be, do you intend to refinance the 2026 Euro bond and pay down the RCF soon after the acquisition completes, or how are you thinking about the capital structure post the acquisition? Thank you.

Okay. Well, I'll take off the first one.

So look, we can run none of the actions in parallel. So post the regulatory approvals, And we do believe that they will be on the fast track basis. So not setting out exactly when we think that's going to be done, but we probably want a couple of months more than that. I would have thought we would be ready to take ownership. I want to be reiterating, we have to clear competition commission approvals.

So we don't want to sort of second guess any of that up front, but that hopefully will give you a steer.

Okay. So on the Eurobond, yes, we do have plans to refinance the Eurobond again. We are working with our board to put forward a plan and a proposal. And so we are looking at doing this in the,

beginning of next year and we will sort of share more on this once we once we have all that concluded thank you thank you we will now take our next question from nicholas stephanie from red please unmute yourself to ask your question hi guys it's uh nick from red thank you for taking my questions um i've got a couple pascal nano and then one of the west assets um So I want to ask, what's going to be the evacuation exit for the condensates from AGPC? Are you going to take them to the refinery? Are you expecting the spares to be fixed so that you can use the TMP? That's the first question. The second one is, what's the reason you had to tap the extra 60 million on the project financing? I remember a couple of years ago, you kind of like lowered the cost on that project. Have there been any kind of like cost overruns that required you to raise more debt there? And then the other one on the waste assets. So I think we have had this discussion. this narrative for a number of years that the the west assets are constrained by by the translocators um you know i mean reliability and now this doesn't seem to be the case anymore with um with the eep so um what's the kind of like longer term outlook there? Are you kind of like looking to accelerate oil sort of like drilling there more and potentially increase production in the next few years? So I just want to kind of like get a sense of where production could be like from the oil side on the West assets. Thank you.

Thank you. Why don't we kick off? Let me kick off with the first one. on what you can do with the project financing and Sam, you want to deal with the final question? So the TMP has been problematic for us. It's up and running now. I think everyone's being very cautious at the moment, which is why it's only up during daylight hours. But we're confident during this quarter, it's going to go into 24-7 operations. What we've done at the gas plant is that's one option, obviously, with the TMP, and that's our main option at the minute. We have loading facilities there, so we can actually truck them. There's a new road that heads towards Port Harcourt, so we can actually, as a backup, truck as well and barge volumes there. Also, we're working up are rooting into the brass line. So it gives us another option there. And then longer term, there's been a lot of discussions around potentially a sort of composite refinery at the plant itself. I would say that that has got some work to do, right? But I just flag that as a potential for the future to ensure that we have real solidity in terms of monetizing the volumes coming out of this. A moment.

Yeah, so Nick, thank you. You know, initially when we presented the project cost for ANO, we had built in a 10% contingency. And bearing in mind that there have been a number of delays on this project, I think we've actually managed to keep the cost controlled. So this additional accordion is part of what we need to get to completion. Thank you.

Right. Thanks, Nick, again. And then we have a question on the Western asset. Yes, you're absolutely correct. So in essence, it's around making sure that the security and availability of both export routes are continuously being worked and improved on, as you can see in the first half of this year. So that is the primary focus in terms of evacuation. We're also trying to build some redundancies within the asset themselves through some buffer tanks installation. That provides us with the flexibility and redundancy to continuously maximize production out of the Western asset. Now, in terms of continuous and looking into the future, the Western asset in its late life, what we also try to do is to ensure that we arrest decline through building of new wells within the asset. And those are the key focus for us going forward.

Okay, thank you. And can I ask one follow-up? That's probably for Elrond. On the tax situation, what should we expect cash tax to be going forward? It looks like there's a bit of kind of like step up from last year because of Elcrest. Should we assume kind of like more and more like permanent tax rate going forward.

Yeah, so thanks, Nick. You picked it up really. So if you look at what we reported on taxes this period, cash taxes is going to be about half of what we've shown. And we expect the effective tax rate to be around the same levels that we have now to the end of the year. But cash taxes will be very similar to sort of what we had at the end of last year. Again, with these oil prices, it would probably be retained at about the same levels.

Okay. And to confirm, there are no any sort of like tax synergies if you complete the NPNU transaction? because each license is ring-fenced, right?

Yeah, I mean, obviously with the transaction, it's going to be a much bigger business. So there will be, you know, the tax position would largely be different from what you're seeing right now. So once we get the transaction completed, we would look at that and share as needed.

Thank you. Yeah, that's fair. Thank you so much.

There are no further questions on the Zoom webinar. We will now address the questions submitted via the webcast page. I will now hand over to James Thompson to read out the written questions.

Thank you very much. So a few questions here. The first one carries on, I think, from what you've just answered there, Eleanor, in terms of cash taxes, certainly for the second half and thinking about an effective tax rate going forward. But another question. question within that mix was, how do we think ANO and CEPANE might impact that? You talked about MPNU, but any impact from the gas projects coming on stream?

Thank you, James. So we would, obviously, there's some potentially some opportunities in view of the executive orders that were released by the President. And so we will take advantage of every incentives are available to us and update what that position would be. Thank you.

Thank you. We've got a few questions obviously on MPN. Roger, you've addressed the one in terms of workflows and what we can say on timelines. A simple one is around obviously funding it. The question is, can we give an update in terms of the source of funding for the transaction? Alongside that was a question around the kind of expectations given the lockbox has been in place for some time now, which I don't think we can answer. But just in terms of the source of funding, it'd be good to give an update on how we intend to fund the transaction.

Okay. As you saw in my presentation, we do have sufficient liquidity As we indicated, we have about $722 million. We'd also shared previously when we released information about NPNU on the banks that will support us with debt as needed. So yes, there is a lockbox opportunity. We haven't shared any more on that, but we do have sufficient funding opportunities to complete the transaction or settle the or pay for the acquisition costs.

Thank you. One in terms of asset performance, given the last prediction numbers we disclosed were net 95,000 by the day, can you Give us an update in terms of the production dynamic in 2024 compared to what we just learned previously.

It's a bit premature to do that now. We're obviously just getting information through on it now. What I would say is that generally, assets of these sort of nature would probably decline around 10% per annum. So if you just work on that basis, I think that's a pretty good steer at the minute. And one of the other focuses we're going to be doing once we get through this and get the transaction closed is A, arresting that decline and then looking for incremental growth, which we see a lot of. I think that's all we can say at the minute. Perhaps in the next time we speak, we can give more.

Thank you. Another one in terms of, maybe more broadly, but long-term views on LNG. in Nigeria, particularly given the contingent gas resource in the shallow water assets area?

Yeah, I mean, it's a good question. I mean, there's a lot of gas in these fields. There's a lot of, I mean, I said 7.3 TCF of contingent, almost 3 TCF for us in the working interest here. So it's very, very material. Certainly, we will be looking at a range of gas options. So obviously looking at domestic gas plays as well. And then obviously we've been a push over the period on various other options of industrial plants to right through to LNG, whether it be fixed-train LNG, and obviously there's Nigerian LNG as an option, but also floating LNG solutions. And again, what we need to be able to do is we need to complete this acquisition. And then obviously for us, we're going to be looking at a dual track process. One is to monetize this gas as quickly as possible at the same time as ensuring that there's a domestic gas play within Nigeria and an export solution. So it does bring in LNG options for us as a company. And obviously for us to be able to put a hard currency behind our gas businesses that we think is very additive.

Thank you. Just one more that we've got at the moment. Just in terms of the underlift, it's been a big part of, a big feature of revenue in the first half. What can you say about the underlifts moving into, or the liftings moving through the rest of the year?

So usually we would try to ensure that we lift all the volumes that we produce, and we've successfully done that in five years. We expect in the second half that our lifting program will significantly improve compared to sort of what we've experienced in the first two quarters.

Thank you. So that was all I had at this point in time, although

There was one question here, it was asked similar to the one we had just now in terms of production performance, whether it was in line with our expectations, but as you said, a little bit early to talk about that. So I don't have any further questions. Online, any more on the phones?

There are no further questions on the Zoom webinar.

One more question for Eleanor, actually, if we've got time. The profit attributable to non-controlling interests is a lower percentage of the total profit than compared to last year. What is driving that and how might we think about that going forward?

Yeah, so that's the non-controlling interest is the interest for LCREST. And so the performance in the assets, which is the Western assets, I know 53 was better this period. And so it's probably going to be the similar ratio that you see now. Thank you. I think maybe just to add that last year, because they had a tax benefit last year, that's why you saw that much higher, but I think that's normalizing. So it'll probably be similar rates as you see now. Thank you.

Okay, thanks. There's no more questions online, as I can see. So I'll hand the call back to Roger to close the channel. Okay, thank you, James.

So just want to say thanks very much, everyone, for joining the call today. We're looking forward to the next call in Q3, most likely. Hopefully, we've got some real positive story messages around our growth opportunities.

Thanks, everyone.