Victrex plc

Ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the VITREX QC and Train Management Statement. At this time, all participants are in listen-only mode. Later, we will conduct a question-and-answer session through the phone lines and instructions will follow at that time. I would like to remind all participants that this call is being recorded. I will now hand over to the Chair of VITREX, PLC, Vivian Cox, to open the presentation.

Thank you.

And good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Bittrex Q3 Trading Update Call. So I'm Vivian Cox, the Chair of Bittrex, and I have with me Jakob Sigurdsson, Chief Executive, Ian Melling, our CFO, and Andrew Hanson, our Director of Investor Relations. Before we turn to the business of the Q3 Trading Update, we announce today the retirement of Jakob as Chief Executive. and the appointment of James Rath as his replacement. I would like to briefly cover that before handing over to Jacob and Ian for the main part of this call. So James will succeed Jacob as CEO in due course. I've not yet agreed a definitive start date with his current chairman, and we will let you know through a separate announcement once that is finalised. Jacob will step down as Chief Executive once James joins the board, ensuring an orderly transition. Yakov remains fully committed to the business and we're grateful to him and thank him for his contribution to Victrix over the past eight years. We are now a more differentiated business with a culture of innovation, stronger foundations and with well-invested assets in our UK manufacturing plants, in our Leeds Medical Centre and in China after a period of investment. With this platform in place, We are well served to improve profitability and outcomes in the short and medium term. We wish Jacob well in his eventual retirement, and I personally want to thank him for the support he has shown me as I have taken on the role of chair. Turning to our new CEO, we are delighted to announce the appointment of James Ralph. James is currently the chief executive of the FTSE listed company AB Dynamics, which provides automated testing, simulation and verification systems for the transportation sector. He has more than 30 years' experience in international companies serving end markets, which are close peer lines to Victrex's markets, including transportation, aerospace and defence. In his time at AD Dynamics, he saw significant increases in revenue and operating profits, through both organic and inorganic growth initiatives, and that led to a significant increase in market categorisation. In summary, he has helped to deliver attractive top and bottom line growth, and consequently, our board believes this appointment is a strong fit with Vitrex, and will serve us well, and we look forward to welcoming James in due course. I will now hand back to Jakob to cover the main part of our presentation, the Q3 trading update. Jakob.

Good morning, everybody. And thanks, Julian, for these kind words. And turning now back to the Q3 trading summary. So our Q message today is one of continued volume momentum. But that has been offset at the revenue level by a weaker medical spine in the mix. Group sales were up 8% in the third quarter. Volume movement must continue, as I said, from the first half, but medical remains challenging, primarily in spine, which we will come back to at a later stage in the presentation this morning. Volume growth is driven by sustainable solutions, but with revenues down 3%, and offered by mixed and costed and expected medical, as I mentioned before. I will come back to the outlook later on, If we do see a continuation of these trends in Q4, that would lead to a broadly similar underlying PPT in the second half compared to the first, though we're targeting a slight improvement in second half PPT compared to half 1. I do want to reiterate that our cost discipline remains strong. Our teams are focused on controlling the controllables, impacting the things that we can influence and impact. As well, other improvement actions around Totte Vista and sales excellence in particular. This continues to support us as we navigate uncertainty and focus on how and what's in our power to do to improve profitability. I will now hand it over to Ian for the financial summary. Thank you, Jakob, and good morning, everyone. Overall volume of mention in the course was in line with our expectations and guidance. We saw good growth in sales volume, which was up 8% from 979 tonnes to 1,057 tonnes, and underpins our full-year volume guidance of at least high single digits. At revenue level, Q3 was down 3% at £71.5 million versus £74 million last year, which reflected an adverse sales mix, weaker medical and a declining ASP year-on-year. As a result, volume growth of 8% in Q3 translated to revenue decline of 3%, as Jacob has noted. Year-to-date sales volume is up 13% at 3,075 tonnes, with revenue up 2% at 217.3 million pounds. Remember that Q4 in the prior year was strong, with over 1,000 tonnes of volume. A quick word on average selling price. AFP of £68 per kilogram was down 11% year over year, reflecting Q3 being impacted by broadly similar factors as H1, including lower medical revenues, adverse mix within both medical and sustainable solutions, and competitive pricing particularly involved. Currency increased in impact during Q3 to account for nearly one-third of the year-on-year ASP impact in the quarter, with the remainder a combination of mix and price. As I've mentioned, the price impact more marked in VARs. Moving on to the divisional picture, if we look at sustainable solutions, firstly, energy and industrial and VARs were the main drivers of volume growth in Q3. albeit with some continuing competitive pressure in both VARs and energy industrials as we won new or incremental business. Energy is benefiting from activity levels in the 10 markets, and we have also seen PMIs pick up slightly. For example, US PMI was up to 52.9 in June from 52 in May. China PMI was above 50 and saw its biggest monthly jump since November 2024. And Eurozone PMI also edged slightly ahead in June as well. Across other end markets and sustainable solutions, aerospace and automotive were stable. Aerospace comparisons are tougher this year. Automotive remains subdued overall, even if we saw some stabilization in the quarter. Electronics volume was down in the quarter but remains in growth year to date. and the long-term trends remain positive in the SEND market, particularly with the long-term outlook for AI, data centres and Semicon. Turning to medical, medical was weaker than our expectations in Q3, and revenues were down double digits overall in the quarter. Whilst we continue to see good growth year-to-date in non-spine, this was not sufficient to deliver overall divisional improvement during the period. The pipeline for non-spine applications in medical remains strong and reflects how we have addressed the challenges in spine by developing a more diverse and differentiated medical business through non-spine applications. Spine remains the most impacted application area within medical, including impacts from industry destocking, the effects of volume-based pricing in China, which has impacted both volume and price, and continued softness in our U.S. spying business. Brief word on China. In our new manufacturing facility in China, we are making progress in resolving the initial scale-up challenges, which we applied to investors at the half-year. Production rates have slightly improved during Q3, and product is being delivered to customers. Finally, turning to our financial position, we are on track for continued strong cash conversions, with capital expenditure lower and at the lower end of our 8% to 10% of revenue guidance for the full year, with inventory also reducing as planned. I do want to plug the impact of currency. About half a year, we signalled currency was an 8 to 9 million pound headwind for FY25. This is now close to 9 million pounds, given the strength of sterling against the dollar, yen and renminbi. For next year, FY26, at current rates, Currency is tracking at approximately three to four million pounds adverse year over year, with around 50% of cover in place, which will increase to around 75% cover for euro and dollar by the end of September. Thank you, and with that, I'll hand back to Jakob. Thank you, Ian. So turning now to the outlook, overall, We're well positioned to deliver at least high single-digit volume growth for the full year, which is in line with our previous guidance. Keep in mind, though, that the fourth quarter does need to occur comparative, and we are mindful of ongoing macroeconomic uncertainty in our outlook predictions. If we look at TPT, a range of outcomes reflect the impact of an adverse sales mix in both divisions. A weaker medical performance and a headwind from a new China manufacturing facility approximately £9 million of currency headwinds in FY25. Overall, performance in Madagascar is worth in our expectations and the currency headwind is at the higher end of the guidance we gave back in May. So these are probably the primary reasons for the adjustment in guidance between now and then. So in summary, While pre-targeting age 2 underlying PPT to be slightly improved on age 1, underlying PPT of 22.2 million in the first half, a continuation of Q3 sales with an ASP trend for the remainder of the year, particularly in medical spine, would result in half 2 underlying PPT to be broadly similar to the level that it was at in the first half. That's, again, assuming that I said that Q3 sales mix and ASP trends continue along the same trajectory that they have been on. So thank you for listening to the short update, and we're now opening up the call for Q&A.

You are dialed into the call and would like to ask a question, please signal by pressing star and the number 1 on your telephone keypad.

We will pause for a moment to assemble the queue.

We will take our first question from Vanessa Jeffries of Jeffries. Your line is now open.

Good morning, guys. I was just wondering if you could give us more clarity on what you're expecting now from the China facility.

So on China, pretty much what we said in May, so we had some problems, teething problems with the back end of our production. Problematization went well, but we had problems issues with the refining, a couple of refining processes towards the end of the process. We are now coming to a point, we've come to a point where receiving material on a regular basis to our customers or guidance that we gave in May is basically holding up.

Thanks.

And remember, we are using a different process in China than we are using here in the UK, and that's a part of the strategy.

Thank you. And then maybe if there's any changes to your medium-term expectations, Dan, or if anything changed around your expectations for future?

Nothing changed from what we said last time around. We would expect that to start to scale in the coming year, reducing the headwinds as we've seen this year. This is a really important strategic investment for us, and remember, that it is going to serve many of the customers that we serve around the world, particularly in the value-added reseller side, and also a very important asset for us in order to further penetrate the electric vehicles market for buyer installation in particular.

Thank you. And just wondering if we could please have an update on megaprogram expectations for revenues this year?

MECA program revenues this year will probably be lower than guidance. I think there have been a few delays, particularly on launches on the e-mobility side. That's primarily impacting our predictions there, and it's showing up in volumes on the automotive side as well. It's actually a sort of flattish on two years here. So that's going to be the main reason, and there's been a little bit of a shift out on magma also because of conversion of manufacturing down in Portsmouth where they're converting the facility to be able to make the effort in the initial stages and have therefore not been producing pipes for a large portion of this year.

Okay. So you would expect it to be lower year-on-year? Just confirming. No, not lower. We will not see the growth as we expected. Okay. Thank you so much.

Very nice question comes from the line-up. Your next question comes from the line of Matthew Yeats of Bank of America. Your line is now open.

Hey, good morning, everyone. Thanks for taking the time. Good morning, Matthew. Can I ask you about the spine business? And forgive me because I'm not going to be particularly knowledgeable about it, but can you just remind me the size of that business? And when I listen to the issues, that you've talked about it. It sounds rather structural to me when I hear price pressure and material substitution. So if we look forward into 2026, am I right in thinking that the spine business will continue to contract? And can you talk a little bit about the extent to which your growth in the non-spine applications may be able to offset this? Thank you.

Yeah, thank you, Matthew. Let me have a go at that one. So, our spine business is currently around 25% of our medical business. That is lower than it has been historically, and the fall, if you like, to 25%, despite the rest of the medical business growing, has been the source of the headwind in medical this year, primarily. So, there clearly are some some pieces in there that, you know, we've known about for a while. So the substitution in the U.S. of peak by primarily porous and expandable titanium cages has been a steady process over a number of years. There have been some ups and downs in that potentially associated with the availability of titanium with some of the market fluctuations that have happened in the past years. But I would say that, you know, there remains a strong market share, a poor peak in the US, but it has been sort of steadily declining and that may well continue. Although, you know, poorest peak is, you know, has been on the horizon as a potential kind of response to that for some time. And we have made some progress in that area. In terms of this year and the sort of more dramatic effects this year, I think there are other factors at play which are not as structural. They're more sort of one-time effects. Certainly the effects in China around BBB have led to increased competition locally in China. They've also led to price reductions in response to the end price implants in the market into government. hospitals being cut by as much as 80%. So we have seen some pressure on our Chinese business, which I would expect to, you know, not continue at the same rate going forward necessarily. So I do think there is the opportunity for spine to stabilize somewhat from the current situation going forward. And then for the growth in the non-spine applications, which are, you know, more varied and growing strongly, both implantable and non-implantable, the opportunity for those indications, the growth in those indications, to start to offset the declines in spine and turn medical around to be heading in the right direction. Yeah, and if I may add to that a little bit, I think, as Ian said, even though the health thing, I see a few markets in the US from tea to titanium, and we've talked about it a number of times in the past, Remember that, you know, if you go back 20 years, this was probably all a P10 year market and P10 significant year. And on the back of expandable cases and 3D printed cases, P10 has taken year back. So in response to this, you know, we have also been seeking opportunities to grow our non-spying business. And as Ian said before, spying is roughly 25% of our business in the first nine months this year, versus non-spying at around three quarters of our revenues in medicals. That diversification, if you wish, is actually on a good trajectory, and that's point number one. And then when we point to a couple of other growth drivers, mainly the mega-programs, number two, both NE and ThermoPlace, which will have quite a transformational impact on the end market that they're targeted for, and thirdly, a rapidly growing pipeline of opportunities associated with the pharmaceuticals. both in terms of packaging and delivery of pharmaceuticals, as well as the manufacturing processes of making some of these. So these are important world drivers for the medical business going forward and sort of will change the shape of the mix as we push it into the midterm or so.

Okay. If I can ask a second question, maybe to Ian. In your introductory remarks, you talked about the improvement recently in PMIs around the world. We can obviously see you've got positive volume growth. Can you just elaborate a little bit more about ordering patterns from customers? I ask because you're probably one of the first companies we've heard from this reporting season. So just, are you seeing that higher confidence, higher activity level translates into the order book, because obviously, you know, other companies would talk about tariff uncertainty maybe leading to some impact on customer behavior and ordering. Thank you.

I'm happy to take this one, actually, on PMI.

So, I mean, by no means, I think, would anybody say that the outlook is shouldn't be fixed, and everybody's here waiting for, you know, the outcome of the pending time negotiations between the U.S. and a number of countries. Now, that being said, PMIs in the U.S. have been remarkably resilient to the S24. In China, which actually dropped down below 50 in May, it had the biggest jump since November, jumping up to close to 51, if I recall right. And if you talk to customers these days, Then almost a verbatim quote from one of them was, actually the headlines are worse than the actual results, so the order intake seems to be better than would be indicated by the headlines. And you can definitely see a slowly growing confidence in Europe and that's showing up in our numbers for particularly manufacturing and engineering companies. So the past months in manufacturing and engineering have actually shown a good improvement on what has been quite a subdued market for the last two years, really. So, I mean, there are some, I would say, positive sprouts, but to say that that's guaranteed for the future would be a bit of a too bold of a statement. But I think the sentiment in the industry is probably a little bit better than the headline would imply it. Yeah, and I think just to add, Matthew, specifically on order intake, I think it's steady at the moment. I wouldn't say it's stellar, and there are clearly softer spots around some industries and some geographies, you know, I'm thinking automotive in particular, but generally order intake remains steady, and, you know, you see that in our volume guidance.

Thank you.

Next question comes from the line of Christian Bell of UBS. Your line is now open.

Good morning. Thanks for the opportunity to ask the question. So my first one is, so the current average sales price of 68 is saying that it's likely to continue as a fourth quarter on current trends. So that's a steep decline from when you finished last year, which was an ASP of around 78 pounds. So you mentioned... Obviously, Var Channel's a big driver of that. That tracks around 40% of volumes in recent times. But an ASP of what we're looking at now must imply the current mix is closer to 50%. Is that kind of what we're looking at?

So, Christian, let me try to answer that. So, I think in terms of mix, there's no... increased in VARs from where we were at the half year. So if you go back to the half year numbers, you can see where VARs was then. If anything, VARs is marginally less as a proportion of the total in Q3 compared to the first half when there was a big pickup. What you're seeing in that AFP decline year over year, clearly there's a currency impact, which is not insignificant, a little higher this quarter, but it's been around a quarter to a third of that... of that ASP move year over year. And then beyond currency, you've got life-for-life price with customers, which is most pronounced in bars, where we have given some price reductions this year in response to competitive activity. But the bigger factor actually is mix, where lower medical sales, but also higher bars and higher energy sales have driven that overall ASP down and that's not that we are cutting price year over year although there has been some competitive pricing in the energy sector for example where we've managed to gain some new customers and regain some volumes that we'd previously lost. There has been some competitive pricing there. The bigger factory is actually just a mix of the different ASPs across the different sectors driving the group ASP down.

So if I could just follow up on that. So when you say like-for-like pricing is much pronounced in VARs, can you just tell us, like, give us a rough sense of, you know, what the percentage was down on the second quarter?

Yeah, so quarter-over-quarter, it's not significantly new, Christian, customer-by-customer. Most of these customers we have annual pricing descriptions with. So you've been looking at potentially a year-over-year movement in the sort of, I would say, mid-single-digits range, percentage terms, but it's a year-over-year mid-crisis and not shifting quarter to quarter.

Okay. And then, so also just sort of following up on that, in terms of the medical sales, you're obviously the only provider of a year to group people. So I guess, could we... Are we sort of looking for the second half of this year? Could we expect a flat revenue result on the first half for medical? Or is it going to be slightly below where you were in the first half?

Yeah, we're not guiding on... specific lines in terms of revenue, Christian. I'm sure you'll appreciate that. It's also worth saying that quarterly our sales, particularly in medical, not every customer buys every month. So one quarter's trend can be over-analyzed, I think it's fair to say. But I would say the main source of the change from the half year to now is softness in medical. So I would expect to see that kind of soft trend in terms of overall medical revenue being, you know, continued through the remainder of this year, you know, primarily off the back of weakness in spine that we've talked about.

Okay, thank you. Thanks, Christian. Thank you, sir.

Your next question comes from the line of Kevin Fogarty of Deutsche Mimis, your line is now open.

Great. Thanks for the opportunity. Morning, everyone. Thanks for the opportunity. If I could just ask for a little bit more colour in terms of the competitive pricing in bars, effectively kind of where is that coming from kind of regionally, that would be quite useful to pick through and talk to people, I guess, on the basis of competition there, where that's coming from. And just secondly, in terms of medical, you know, It seems like just in terms of unpicking where the biggest impact here, your point of that being in spine, I guess if we're going back to the more structural issue, you know, does that sort of make you more concerned about the kind of structural issue there or just sort of unpick the impacts, you know, whether it's a bit of medical, please, please, please, please kind of be stopping volume-based pricing, et cetera, just if you could unpick that a little bit more, that would be useful.

Yeah, on the VARs, you know, it is probably more in the red screen, and when things are kind of rough in markets, you know, some people tend to, or companies tend to go for the biggest pieces of homogeneous opportunity that they can see out there, and they will be had in the VARs area. That's where you have In our case, as an example, they will be the single largest consumers of teeth and sometimes other high-performance polymers as well. So that's quite frequently then the most popular point of attack. And it comes mainly from, you would say, Western-based companies, I would say.

So not an Asian phenomenon, effectively.

It's primarily, you know, in the West. I mean, there are good competitors in Asia as well. But the balance market is not established there as it is here, even if we are positioning ourselves with Arata in China to actually serve, you know, many of the Western customers directly from there. So we can meet the China for China requirements, you know, both of the and they themselves are the supplier of compounds and those hot shits. And then on medical, I think there's a lot of things that trade here. And I think we pointed to the journey of diversification that has been our journey for the past 10 years almost, where our non-spine mix has been growing and the spine portion of our cells has been declining. I think GDP is obviously something that has had an impact in the short term. Clearly, you know, titanium has been taking share in the U.S., particularly in Spain also, although that erosion seems to have stabilized. And then, you know, this is compounded by a destocking effect, you know, as well. And it is clear, I mean, if you read through these announcements of many of the medical device companies, you can see that all of them are talking about sales and inventory correctly, even if it has run its course in many of the indications, it's likely that it has not done so in Spain. So you look at, you know, Stryker, Simaretten, and Netaneti, Globus, Boston, you know, all continue to show lower number of days inventory being held in Q125 versus the prior quarter, as an example. Uh, and some of them have sort of centralized global operations as help, as well, to help reduce inventory growth. And, uh, and in-source distribution centers as well. So there's a lot of activity in that area still to pare down industries. And Spine is probably the one that has the longest supply chain as well, which then, as a consequence of what happened after COVID, was the one that was filled to the brim in many different places and is therefore taking a longer period to drain out, if you wish.

Yeah. Fair enough. Okay. Okay. Understood. Understood. Thanks for the comment. That helps at all? Yeah, that's very good. Yeah, thanks very much. Cheers. Thank you.

Take care. Okay, next question comes from the line of James. Your line is now open.

Thank you. You referred to the pressure on the spine being mainly a U.S. issue for now. Would you expect that renewed preference for titanium to spread outside the U.S.? ? And could you just give us an update on where you are in terms of launching a porous peak spinal product, please? That's the first question. Secondly, just on magma, if there's anything new you can share on the technological order with Petrobras, I believe the final validation of the flowline type is expected in Q4 this year. I don't know if you'll be able to announce any of your findings from that.

That's all. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you, Jan. Good morning. Just in terms of spine, so we have seen the US move towards these newer porous and expandable technologies in titanium steadily over the past few years. We don't see the same trend elsewhere in the world. I don't think we necessarily expect to. The US is a much more dynamic market in spine and has responded historically much quicker to different technologies because still clinically I think very well accepted and very popular in other locations. There are the pressures in China that I've talked about, you know, associated with the BBP and also associated with local competition on the back of the BBP in terms of Chinese peak players competing quite aggressively, you know, following the price cuts from the BBP. Just to be clear, we don't see that competition outside of China, and I don't think we see the shift in terms of indications to be nearly as dramatic outside of the U.S. So that would be my summary on Spine, and I'll let Jakob answer your question. Yeah, on my end, yeah, the notification came out from techniques and types of E-Tech contracts, even just a couple of months ago. Keep in mind, though, that the new flow is techniques from this initiative, but what we can say is that the E-Tech contract was a massive milestone for, I think, all of us that have been involved in this, and sort of paced the way into the final qualification period, if you will, and then subsequently most likely into procurement contracts as well. There are a couple of milestones coming up on qualifications that we have talked about, you know, on flow lines in October this year and on rises in the early part of next year. We actually post the ECAT contract as students, you know, around, well, more than a kilometer of continuous types in Portsmouth to meet further geotrials that Petrobras will be doing from here onwards So the program is progressing nicely, and just to put into context in terms of what it can mean for us, that it's not unreasonable to assume annual demand for this specific pipe of around, let's say, 100 kilometers a year, and every kilometer of pipe contains around 8 tons of peak, and that's then peak in the liner itself, and then in UD tape that is later welded onto the pipe. So significant opportunity for us, and the e-tech contract was a big, big milestone that sort of came to the dynamic in terms of adoption, you know, quite a bit, I would say.

Yeah, awesome. Thank you. Thank you.

If you would like to ask a question, please signal by pressing star and number one on your telephone keypad. That's star and number one on your telephone keypad. Your next question comes from the line with Melvin Mehta of Sterling Investments. Your line is now open.

Thank you very much. Good morning. Can you hear me? Yeah, a lot of fear. Thank you very much.

In terms of the revenue contribution, could you roughly say between the two quarters, 71.5 and 74.

What was the share of medical?

So the share of medical would be similar to what you see in our half-year numbers. In terms of the proportion of the business, medical is pretty stable. You can see that. If you look back historically, you'll see the percentage of medical sales.

Sure, thank you for that.

And in terms of, has the price differential between peak and titanium worked against us at the moment? I think there are a number.

In terms of, if you're referring specifically to the spine business, I think the relative price of technologies is always a factor for medical device companies. But also, you know, for medical device companies, they tend to be making, you know, good margins on all their products. So, you know, the main driver for medical device companies, in my experience, is to drive their share. So, you know, new technologies being able to drive share to them from a competitor would probably be a bigger factor in my mind than the relative cost of titanium and peak, given the margins that medical device companies are making.

But in terms of technology, could you elaborate a bit more, I mean, in terms of why?

So the attractiveness of porous and expandable titanium, so expandable titanium cages, you can perform the procedure with a smaller infusion, so more of a... It's more of a keyhole approach. Yeah. And porous technology is pretty well accepted now in the orthopedic field. The advantage of porous technology is that it allows growth of the bone into the implant, so bone ingrowth, which strengthens the implant over time as opposed to having a cement interface which can potentially weaken over time. We have worked on, and I think I didn't fully answer Jens' question earlier, maybe on porous peak, so I'll take the opportunity now. In terms of porous peak, we, as people well know, we pulled out of our investments in bonds 3D last year However, that technology continues to make progress and we continue to work with its current owners in terms of working towards the adoption of Forest Peak in the market. And we do think that Forest Peak in the future has the potential to be, you know, the next new technology, if you like, which can then take share back from Forest Titanium because you have all the previous advantages that allowed peak to take share from titanium combined with the porosity. But, you know, 3D printing peak into a porous structure is, as we've learned, it's not a trivial task. And so, you know, work continues on that and we will certainly update the market as progress continues.

Sure. Thank you very much. And a quick one for Ian. In terms of our hedging currency working against us, are we trying to go more aggressive in terms of protecting that or still keep it open?

Hedging is working against us, to be clear. Hedging is doing what it's intended to do, which is delaying the impact of currency fluctuations. We have a pretty well adopted policy that we use consistently around hedging up to 80% of our cash flows 12 months forward in US dollars and euros. We do keep under review whether we have the other currencies. That would be the most likely change. The Chinese currency is the one that has grown fastest in terms of exposure most recently, but given our costs in China as well, it hasn't raised to a level where we see the need to hedge it. But that would be the most likely change if we did change our hedging policy, would be to hedge forward in other currencies. We're not in the business of kind of speculating on currencies. The idea of the hedging is to give us certainty.

Great. Thank you so much. All the best, Jakub, for a wonderful job at Rickpress. And James, it's a fantastic choice. And it's AD Dynamics' loss and Rickpress' gain.

Thank you, Melvin.

So I think we may have time for one more question.

There are no further questions on the conference line. I will now hand over the act of series for closing remarks.

So thanks for joining us today. So this clearly remains a challenging period for the group despite good volume of mention. But as I said before, we are relentlessly focused on controlling what is in our power to control, the remainder of FY25, as we look to return the business back to a profitable growth. We look forward to updating you all at our FY25 results call and eating in the center.

Thank you all.