Axcelis Technologies, Inc.

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Excellus Technologies call to discuss the company's result for the third quarter 2025. My name is Brittany Morgan, and I will be your coordinator for today. I would now like to turn the presentation over to your host for today's call, David Rizek, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations and Corporate Strategy. Please proceed.

Thank you, Operator. This is David Rizek, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations and Corporate Strategy, and with me today is Russell Lowe, President and CEO, and Jamie Coogan, Executive Vice President and CFO. If you have not seen a copy of our press release issued earlier today, it is available on our website. In addition, we have prepared slides accompanying today's call, and you can find those on our website as well. Playback service will also be available on our website as described in our press release. Please note that comments made today about our expectations for future revenues, profits, and other results are forward-looking statements under the SEC's safe harbor provision. These forward-looking statements are based on management's current expectations and are subject to the risks inherent in our business. These risks are described in detail in our annual report on Form 10-K and other SEC filings, which we urge you to review. Our actual results may differ materially from our current expectations. We do not assume any obligation to update these forward-looking statements. Given the pending merger with VECO, we will not be addressing questions related to the transaction. Please note that today's call is neither an offering of securities nor solicitation of a proxy vote in connection with our previously announced transaction with VECO. We urge you to read the joint proxy statement relating to the transaction with VECO once it becomes available. During this call, we will be discussing various non-GAAP financial measures. Please refer to our press release and accompanying materials for information regarding our non-GAAP financial results and a reconciliation to our GAAP measures. Now, I'll turn the call over to President and CEO Russell Lowe.

Good morning and thank you for joining us for our third quarter 2025 earnings call. Beginning on slide four, we generated solid results in the third quarter with revenue of $214 million and non-GAAP earnings per diluted share of $1.21, both exceeding our outlook. We delivered record CS&I revenue as well as slightly better than expected system revenue, which drove the better than expected profitability. Bookings in the third quarter declined on a sequential basis, primarily led by a softer power and general mature bookings, which were partially offset by an improvement in memory. While bookings fluctuate from quarter to quarter, based on recent encouraging quoting activity and a conversation with customers on their bill plans, we anticipate bookings to improve sequentially in the fourth quarter. Before I provide more detail on the trends we're seeing by market segment, I'd like to touch on our recent transaction announcement. On October 1, we announced that Excellus and Veco had agreed to merge to create what we believe will be a leading semiconductor equipment company. We have long admired Veco's history of innovation and its track record of delivering breakthrough products. And this merger is expected to position the combined company as a key beneficiary and critical enabler of secular tailwinds, including AI and electrification. I want to take this opportunity to recap a few points that we made when we announced this deal and what is a highly compelling opportunity for both companies. Starting the cross-seller synergy, we believe each company can open doors for the other. One such example is with Excellasys Implant and Veco's laser annealing solutions, which are adjacent steps and reside in the same diffusion module in the FAD. In addition, our combined technical debt is expected to enable us to optimize technology advancements. An example of this is our plan to leverage our deep ion source and component expertise to enhance Zico's ion beam deposition capabilities and vice versa. Second, from a market perspective, we are strong in silicon carbide, while Veek has an exciting opportunity in MOCVD for GaN on silicon. We believe this combined presence will allow us to be a comprehensive solution provider to the compound semiconductor market, which is becoming increasingly relevant due to electrification, including the growing need for greater power efficiency, driven in part by the rise in AI. In addition, We believe Veco's MOCV business has an opportunity in micro-LED, as well as an indium phosphide opportunity for optical communication products, which is an emerging data center application. Moreover, we see opportunities stemming from our strengths in memory and mature foundry logic, which we believe are complemented very well by Veco's strengths in advanced foundry logic and advanced packaging. Stretching across annealing, ion beam deposition, web processing, and lithography solutions. It is also worth noting that the combined company is expected to be better equipped to better serve our customers through access to an expanded install base supported by stronger aftermarket services. Finally, the all-stock nature of this transaction is expected to position the combined company to have a resilient operating profile and balance sheet post-closing which we believe allows us to invest in our business to drive organic growth as well as return capital to shareholders. In short, by bringing our two companies together, we believe we are building a leading semiconductor equipment company with the capabilities, resources and financial foundation to drive sustainable growth and value creation for shareholders and drive meaningful benefits for all our stakeholders. With that, let me now turn back to our Q3 results and the trends we're seeing by market category. Turning to slide six, in the quarter, sales to mature node applications comprised almost the entirety of our system shipments, in particular, power and general mature. Now on slide seven, let me review our trends by end market. Within our power business, shipments to silicon carbide applications grew nicely on a sequential basis. Consistent with our commentary heading into 2025, customers continue to digest the capacity that has been put in place over the past few years. However, in China, multiple customers continue to build out capacity as they strive to address growing demand in the local market, while customers outside of China are making selective investments into next-generation technology, such as trench and super junction. Moreover, in the quarter, we shipped several tools to multiple customers that have only just begun to develop their silicon carbide capability. We believe this is yet another validation of the long-term secular growth opportunity in silicon carbide, and customers recognize the world's need for more efficient power delivery will continue to accelerate. As the cost of silicon carbide continues to decline, we anticipate its adoption and an expanding array of applications will continue to grow, ultimately requiring more investments in technology and capacity. As we've noticed in the past, Excellus is the market and technology leader in high-energy ion implantation, which is becoming increasingly critical for next-generation silicon carbide devices. In August, we announced a joint development program with GE Aerospace to pursue production-worthy high-voltage silicon carbide devices utilizing our Purin Xe Max system, which is our highest-energy implanter delivering up to 15 million electron volts in an ion beam. We are proud to partner GE Aerospace on this exciting initiative. In September, we made multiple new product announcements, including a new Purion Power Plus series at the annual Ice Cream Conference, which was held in Korea. The platform is designed to enable improved device performance and increased productivity for next generation power devices. While the majority of the platform is targeted to the silicon carbide market, there are also applications for silicon and gallium nitride. Xcel has a proven track record of collaborating with customers to develop innovative solutions, and this product announcement is no different. We also have received positive customer feedback about our new high energy channeling capability and music and multi-step implant chain capability which reduces the overhead of wafer transfer time during the implant process, enabling our customers to have increased output with less downtime between recipes. This capability is on tools we've already placed in the field with our leading customers. And as I said, we're receiving positive feedback. Additionally, Xcelis announced the launch of the GSD Ovation ES, a high-current multi-way for iron implanter targeted specifically for engineered substrates. Turning back to the near-term demand environment in silicon carbide, we continue to see select areas of capacity and technology investment, and we expect revenue from silicon carbide to fluctuate from quarter to quarter, with fourth quarter expected to be down slightly on a sequential basis. In our other power market segment, ship system revenue also grew on a sequential basis, primarily due to shipments to customers in Japan and Europe. In general mature, revenue declined on a sequential basis as customers continued to manage their capacity investments given the current demand environment in auto, industrial, and consumer electronics. Broadly speaking, we are seeing an improvement in utilization rates However, this varies by customer and can even vary by fab location within each customer. In fact, we're seeing some signs of improvement in utilization rates with our image sensor customers as camera content on autos continues to rise and smartphones continue to be a strong long-term demand driver. Image sensors require high energy on implantation. We are well-positioned to address this market as our customers assume capacity build-out investments. In the third quarter, we also shipped an Xe Max evaluation unit for a 300-millimeter power management IC application. This is noteworthy because our Xe Max was developed for the image sensor market, and yet we're seeing interest in additional applications where this technology can be deployed, namely power. Turning to slide eight, in advanced logic, we continue to actively target next generation ion implantation applications across multiple customers. In the quarter, we generated revenue from a previously booked system with an existing customer. Moving to memory, Revenue remained muted in the third quarter. However, we expect a sequential increase in the revenue in the fourth quarter as customers expand capacity to address growing demand for AI-related applications. While it is too early for us to predict 2026, given our conversations with customers on the capacity plans, we anticipate our sales to the memory market to grow next year, led by increased DRAM and HBM investments. In NAND, Customers remain focused on scaling to higher layered counts, which requires deposition and edge chamber-based upgrades, but not incremental ion implant capacity. As a result, we continue to expect demand for NAND applications to remain muted in the near term. However, we are encouraged with some initial signs of improvement in the NAND bit demand and pricing, and we are ready to serve this market once customers resume capacity additions. On slide nine, let me wrap up my thoughts prior to handing the call over to Jamie. We are navigating the current cyclical digestion period across our markets exceptionally well, remaining aggressive in our product development and customer engagement, while staying disciplined on cost control. As referenced earlier, we are seeing interest in new applications for our high-end solutions, but also executing on our strategy to drive greater adoption of our high-current portfolio. Meanwhile, our CS&I business continues to benefit from our focused aftermarket strategy and growing in-store base. It remains a foundational part of our company's profitability and cash flow profile and integral to the value proposition we offer our customers. Adding all this up, despite a moderation of demand in our markets in 2025, We have a strong base of profitability and cash flow, which we believe provides a solid platform for Excellus to execute on our long-term growth opportunities. With that, let me turn the call over to Jamie for a closer look at our results and outlook. Jamie?

Thank you, Russell, and good morning, everyone. I'll first start with some additional detail on our third quarter before turning to our outlook for Q4. Starting on slide 10, Third quarter revenue was $214 million, with systems revenue at $144 million, and CS&I revenue at a record of $70 million, both above our expectations for the quarter. Our better than expected CS&I revenue was driven by strong demand for spares and consumables, as well as an improvement in our service revenues. We are pleased with our execution in CS&I, and our aftermarket offerings are resonating with the customers. Case in point, through the first nine months of 2025, our CS&I revenue is up 9% on a year-over-year basis despite customers moderating their capital equipment investments. Moving to consolidated sales from a geographic perspective, China decreased sequentially to 46% of total sales, down from 55% in the prior quarter. Consistent with our expectations, Our customers in China continue to digest the robust investments they've made in mature note capacity over the past few years. While quarterly revenue by region can fluctuate, we anticipate revenue from China will decline sequentially in the fourth quarter. Turning to other regions, we saw sales to the U.S. at 14%, while Korea declined to 10%. As Russell mentioned, bookings declined on a sequential basis to $52 million, and we exited the third quarter with a backlog of $484 million. Turning to slide 11, I'd like to share some additional detail on our GAAP and non-GAAP results. GAAP gross margin was 41.6% in the quarter, and on a non-GAAP basis, Gross margin was 41.8%, below our outlook of 43%, primarily due to mix. Within systems revenue, we recognized a number of low margin system installations in the third quarter that we had forecasted to occur in the fourth. Within CS&I, as previously noted, we saw increased volumes of consumables and service contract revenue, which typically carry a lower margin. nevertheless we find this encouraging as this tends to reflect increased utilization rates with our customers gap operating expenses totaled 63.8 million dollars and on a non-gap basis operating expenses were 50.4 million dollars lower than our outlook of 53 million dollars primarily due to lower compensation related expenses associated with the timing of annual merit increases as well as one-time cost savings measures we executed in the quarter Our non-GAAP results excluded transaction-related expenses associated with the pending VECO merger, along with other typical adjustments such as share-based compensation and restructuring charges. On that note, in the third quarter, we implemented a one-time voluntary retirement program and recorded a portion of the expense associated with that in the period. Given the nature of this program, we expect to record additional program-related expenses in the fourth quarter. As a result, our GAAP operating margin was 11.7%, while our non-GAAP operating margin was 18.2%. Moreover, in the third quarter, we delivered adjusted EBITDA of $43 million, reflecting an adjusted EBITDA margin of 20.2%. We generated approximately $5 million in other income, with this sequential decrease primarily due to foreign currency. our tax rate was approximately 14 in the third quarter both on a gap and non-gap basis for the fourth quarter we estimate our non-gap tax rate will be approximately 15 percent our weighted average diluted share count in the quarter was 31.5 million shares and this all translates into gap diluted earnings per share of 83 cents which was lower than our outlook of 87 cents however non-GAAP diluted earnings per share was $1.21, exceeding our outlook of $1. The higher than expected non-GAAP diluted EPS was primarily due to better than expected revenue, along with lower operating expenses partially offset by product mix. Moving to our cash flow and balance sheet data shown on slide 12, We generated $43 million of free cash flow in the third quarter as a result of better than expected profitability and a slight improvement in both day sales and days payable outstanding. Turning to share repurchases, in the third quarter we repurchased approximately $32 million in shares and have $135 million remaining under the share repurchase program previously authorized by the Excellus Board of Directors. We exited the third quarter with a strong balance sheet consisting of $593 million of cash, cash equivalents, and marketable securities on hand. This includes $143 million of long-term securities. With that, let me discuss our fourth quarter outlook on slide 13. All measures will be non-GAAP with the exception of revenue. We expect revenue in the fourth quarter of approximately $215 million. And looking beyond the fourth quarter, our preliminary view on the first quarter of 2026 suggests revenues to be relatively similar to our anticipated levels in the fourth quarter of 2025. We expect non-GAAP gross margins of approximately 43%. The sequential improvement is primarily due to a more favorable mix. And we expect non-GAAP operating expenses of approximately $56 million as a result of one-time cost-saving measures in the third quarter not reoccurring. and in addition to a full quarter of annual merit increases kicking in for the period. Adjusted EBITDA in the fourth quarter is expected to be approximately $41 million. And finally, we estimate non-GAAP diluted earnings per share in the fourth quarter of approximately $1.12. In summary, we are pleased with our financial execution through the first nine months of this year, delivering robust year-to-date adjusted EBITDA margins of 20% and strong free cash flow generation of $116 million, despite our revenue being down. With a strong balance sheet, we are exiting 2025 in solid financial position, and we are especially excited about our pending combination with VECO and the opportunities ahead for the combined company. With that, let me hand the call back to Russell for closing remarks. Russell?

Thank you, Jamie. We are pleased with our third quarter performance as the team continues to execute with focus and discipline. Our results reflect the strength of our business model, the quality of our technology, and the dedication of our global team. Looking ahead, the pending business combination with Zico represents an exciting transformational step for both companies. We expect you to broaden our capabilities, expand our market reach, and position us to unlock even greater value for customers and shareholders while creating exciting new opportunities for our employees. I want to thank our customers, employees, partners, and shareholders for their continued support and trust in Excellus. With that, operator, we are ready to take your questions.

Thank you. At this time, We will conduct the question and answer session. To ask a question, you will need to press star 11 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star 11 again. We ask that all Q&A participants please limit yourself to one question and one follow-up. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. Our first question comes from the line of Jed Dorsheimer with William Blair. Your line is now open.

Hey, thanks, guys. Congrats on the quarter, and thanks for taking my question. I was wondering if you might be able to describe the dynamics a bit more in the other power category, and in particular, what customers are you know, seeing in terms of, in silicon, in what I'm trying to get at, in silicon carbides, your differentiation with high energy is very clear and distinct. And I'm curious what the dynamics are that you're seeing in other power, and maybe also in general mature, that are driving that business. And then I have a follow-up.

Hey, Jed, it's Russell. So, yeah, so kind of broaden that slightly. So, Regarding power overall, we are seeing, you know, the second half of 25 has been slightly better than the first half of 25. We've talked about different customers, you know, from different locations kind of being in different phases. You know, we have kind of Chinese customers for Silicon Car by specifically adding, you know, capacity versus the non-Chinese customers, basically doing no transitions. When you look at... non-silicon carbide power so basically silicon power so so that obviously is the largest tan regarding power in total right for for us and you know i'd say it's kind of ebbing and flowing we we do a nice job in else you know for a number of customers with um that power. And remember that some of those applications really are quite specific. So they might have a thin wafer application, which is, you know, silicon on glass or silicon on silicon or some other application. So they're very specific and quite advanced products. And in some of those, there might even be a proton implant on the backside, right? So I'd say that they are still what I would consider highly differentiated products on the on the uh the silicon power in addition to we've had a very differentiated portfolio and continue to to push our portfolio with our latest um you know power series uh in silicon carbide got it that's uh uh helpful and then um just uh update on tariff impacts overall on the business and you know what you're seeing uh there would be helpful too thanks

Yeah, so as for 2025, we continue to manage through the tariff environment as we think about the optimization of our global manufacturing footprint to help support us in that effort. We are fortunate to have the operations overseas, but we're not immune at all to the tariff and tariff-related costs as they do come in. As we look to 2026, it could have a little bit more of an impact in 2026 as we move ahead, as sort of some of those tariff costs start to move out of inventory and into the P&L. But the team is working now on working to mitigate the potential impact of that. And as we pull our models together for that period, we'll work to try to quantify that a little bit more materially for you guys. I think overall we've done a nice job in 2025, but, you know, again, these are, you know, dynamic times for sure, Jed. You know, it's the way things continue to sort of ebb and flow with the administration and the decisions that are made around tariffs.

I'll jump back in the queue, but nice job, you know, managing through the difficult markets. Thanks.

Thank you. Thanks.

Thank you so much. Our next question comes from the line of Craig Ellis with B Riley Securities. Your line is now open.

Yeah, thanks for taking the question and congratulations on the execution in the quarter, particularly the record CS&I revenues. That's really quite notable that you're now 71 million. I wanted to follow up on something that's been fairly topical with earnings quarter to date, and it's the broader arc of China demand. And acknowledging that Excellus has a uniquely broad and I think uniquely served customer base there, how should we think about the potential for China to be either a stable market in 2026, a growing market, or one where there would be just more digestion at play and and any color on timing for which that might occur. I know revenues as a percent of total are now 46%, so arguably it's happened year-on-year and quarter-on-quarter. But any color on that would be helpful.

Hey, Craig. It's Russell. Thanks for the question. So it's a little too early to say too much about 2026. And, you know, clearly 2025 has been a year of digestion. We believe that China demand in 2026 will depend upon the end demand environments, as well as how much progress they make on chip self-sufficiency targets. And right now, we believe they're still below those targets. Clearly, China for China and being able to supply domestic chips is a really big initiative for China. And I think they have to continue to invest to achieve this capacity. And I think The markets that we have the most visibility in would be general mature and power, and that's where we're seeing this continued desire to grow. One thing I'd also say, Craig, is geopolitics aside, our Chinese customers are acting like any of our other customers. They really do want the best technology. They want the highest quality support. And, you know, they're actively engaging with us on our roadmap. So we're very engaged with our Chinese customers. We're aligning our roadmap so that we can support their long-term growth. And, you know, we see opportunities in China.

That's really helpful, Russell. Thank you. And then the follow-up question is related to the tantalizing comments that in 2026, we may be seeing indications for a better memory environment. I was hoping you could go into more detail in terms of what you're seeing in DRAM versus NAND to the extent that it's discernible. I know equipment can flex to either type of line, but just more color on what you're hearing from memory customers. In the past, you've had 50% share with Korean manufacturers. Is that a realistic expectation as memory starts to reaccelerate? Thanks, Tim. Okay.

So when we talk with our customers right now, it's clear that the demand is coming from, say, DRAM and HBM. I think when you kind of read the news, some of the suppliers of those products are basically sold out for 2026. You do see the high utilization. You do see the upgrade flow. I think the next stages are to bring on new greenfield capacity, right? So you're going to see that happening. So that's kind of one of the things we expect to see. NAND... Still, NAND is very quiet. I think NAND has been quiet for us for a long time. And obviously, we care about wafer starts for NAND, not whether you build taller and taller skyscrapers, which certainly, as I mentioned, helps to deafen people. So I do think it's exciting that memory could actually be turning a cycle. It's a bright spot for us. Um, and I do think that we will continue to do well when that happens.

Thank you. Russell is great.

Thank you so much. Our next question comes from the line of Christian Schwab with Craig Holland capital group. Your line is now open.

Great. Thanks for taking my question, good quartering guide. Just to follow up on the memory, can you remind us in the typical capacity cycle of adding wafer starts, kind of a range of revenue outcomes that historically you have seen so we can get an idea of should we enter an upcycle, the range of revenue outcomes that could benefit you in memory?

So just to double check, Christian, you're talking about how many implanters, the capital intensity for 100,000 wafer starts, that kind of number you're looking for?

Yeah. So if we, you know, if there was greenfield facilities available for expansion, you know, obviously we all know how the pricing environment is. It would make sense for DRAM wafer starts to expand. you know, does that add 50 potential million dollars of revenue to you on a yearly basis, 100 million? Could you just give us a wide range of potential outcomes?

Yeah, so let me, so Jamie's looking to find the exact number, and we'll give you that, well, the number we believe. You know, so NAND and DRAM has about the same intensity, and obviously we're thinking in terms of they all need high energy, medium current, and high currents. There's a mix of those tools. For 100,000 wafer stars, I thought it was north of, you know, it's 45 to 55 total implanters, that kind of number.

Perfect. And then as you guys are seeing improved utilization but spotty,

in in general mature are you guys optimistic that general mature will see a recovery in in in 2026 or is that yet to be determined so I think you know general mature is going to be driven by the macro climate so you're looking at consumer spending automotive and industrial I think while we kind of encouraged by memory We've kind of said in the past, we've kind of bounced along the bottom, and it is too soon to say that the other markets, mainly consumer, industrial, and automotive, have actually turned. But by customer, you do see pockets of high utilization, but you also see some customers still with lots of excess capacity.

Yeah, we're just like you guys, we're monitoring our customers' sort of public commentary on inventory levels and their performance, right? And I think it still continues to be a bit of a mixed bag.

Great. No other questions. Thanks, guys.

Yep. Thanks, Christian.

Thank you so much. Our next question comes from the line of Jack Egan with Charter Equity Research. Your line is now open.

Great, thanks for taking the question. So nice job on the record, CSI revenue. For that, were there any kind of unique or one-time benefits in that number? Or, I mean, do you think the current level is pretty sustainable for the near future?

Yeah, I mean, again, we saw a little bit uptick from some, you know, again, we talked about seeing some improved utilization rates. So we saw a little bit uptick there. You know, we do always have some customers who do some buying, you know, as they sort of do some restock and other related activities. I think what we saw in the period relative to expectations was slightly higher consumables in the period, which sort of contributed to some extent to the lower gross margin in the period. That's generally a positive sign. It's one of those trends we talk about as recovery comes into play. Upgrades continue to remain strong, primarily in the memory market for the period as well. So again, I think these are just, we keep talking about these little bright spots that we see along the path. And, you know, again, I think you can tell from our tone here, we're a little bit more comfortable on the memory side, but we still remain a little bit cautious as we look at the remainder of the business in terms of calling a broad-based recovery just yet. But, you know, we do feel a little bit more encouraging about where memory is going.

Got it. Okay. That's helpful. And then On the booking side, you mentioned that they're expected to grow next quarter. Obviously, there's probably a bit of a normalization after just the lower level in the third quarter. But can you just kind of go over some of the assumptions for growth in the fourth quarter there, maybe like by end market or geography?

I think we're expecting bookings across pretty much all of our customers, right? Not specifically a given market segment. I think there's kind of been a little bit of built-up pressure and people will be looking to place POs. I mean, obviously, if you focus in on memory specifically, we've kind of said in the past that we typically build to forecasts. So you may get the booking and the shipment in the same quarter. So you're not likely kind of to see those necessary in the backlog order.

Got it. Okay. Thanks, Russell. Cheers.

Thank you so much. Our next question comes from the line of Mark Miller with the Benchmark Company. Your line is now open.

Thank you for the question and congratulations on the quarter.

Thanks, Mark.

You're welcome. You're talking about lower silicon carbide in the fourth quarter. Do you see a trend where EVs are going to be utilizing less silicon carbide next year?

So I think, you know, so while the second half of 25 was slightly higher than the first half of 25 for silicon carbide, I think it's remained healthy and it's kind of, you know, the demand has remained high. As you kind of talked about, there's kind of two camps. There's the camp moving to kind of more advanced nodes and bigger wafer sizes more quickly, and there's those that are adding capacity with the technology they have. I think, you know, one of the things is that as the price has come down significantly, within EVs and even hybrids now, we're seeing a lot more penetration of silicon carbide into those drive systems. Then you're seeing more and more hydrogen electric vehicles anyway. Then the penetration into those with silicon carbide is going up. And then we're also actually hearing about applications going up. So, for example, we're hearing that the compressor for the AC unit on a car is going to be using silicon carbide. So that's certainly a positive. And then there's also the new applications, whether it be data center or grid technologies. So I think there's still a long way to go. on this electrification, and I think as the price is coming down more and more and more, you're going to see the applications open up.

Yeah, and we also think about design cycles for automobiles as well, right? I mean, those are a little bit of a multi-year. So, you know, cars that are being designed over the last few years now actually have the ability, given the price points of silicon carbide, to introduce it more meaningfully into the bomb, right, as they're building out those automobiles. You know, reading some reports out there that, you know, again, we talked about penetration of silicon carbide into full EVs being in sort of that sort of mid-single digit, and that's maybe today in the sort of low teens or something like that, Mark. So there is still a lot of room to run in the, you know, sort of the automobile market for silicon carbide on penetration into that space.

Okay. Just what's your feeling for EVs next year in China and the United States? Are they going to grow in both areas?

Yeah, I think it's hard for us to know. I mean, again, China continues to make some really meaningful progress right in the development of their electric vehicles. I think they're doing a nice job, you know, in pushing the technology forward. You know, I think the support the government provides to the consumer there to encourage them right to move to those vehicles has actually worked pretty well for them. But it's hard for us to know exactly where those numbers come in.

Yeah, and the other thing, Mark, so obviously the Chinese auto market is the largest. I think it's like 30 million out of the entire 90 million cars per year. I think the competition has been so aggressive in China amongst the electric car manufacturers that they're now seeking overseas markets in order to broaden their portfolio and improve their ability to weather that. So I think you're going to see, you know, more and more electric cars at better price points start to prefer multiple different international markets. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Our next question comes from the line of Dennis Pyakinen with Needham Company LLC. Your line is now open.

Great. Thank you. For our first question, could you please discuss orders a little bit? Maybe which segments saw the dip in Q3? I see you guys were down to around $55 million or so in what you're seeing into Q4. Perhaps also with regards to your full year bookings expectations for full year 25 versus 2024?

Sorry, Des, I missed the first part of that question. Can you just maybe reiterate that real quick? I just want to make sure we're answering the right question here. I know it's around bookings. I just want to make sure we answer it the right way for you.

Yeah, basically, could you discuss which segments saw the dip in Q3 here and then what you're seeing into Q4 and then, you know, maybe full year expectations for 2025 versus 2024?

Yeah, so, you know, again, I think what we're seeing here is really power, general mature, continue to be a little bit softer, you know, relative to the bookings. I think for the full year, we do anticipate bookings to be lower than what we saw, you know, sort of during the high days of the high booking rate. Although we do see encouraging signs, as Russell noted in his prepared remarks, you know, that bookings will be higher, you know, in Q4 relative to what we see here in the third quarter timeframe. And then, you know, beyond that, you know, we don't typically provide commentary, you know, on bookings, you know, beyond that, just given the visibility and sort of nature of that process for us.

Got it. And then my follow-up, maybe we could discuss CS&I a little bit. So with CS&I being up this much, maybe you can talk about what you're seeing for utilizations or maybe service intensity by geography. Are there some reasons that are, you know, particularly strong or particularly weak in

Yeah, so we talked about seeing some good upgrade activity and consumable activity, you know, in the memory space. That's primarily going to be tied to sort of our Korean memory customers. And we think about that performance. I think we continue to see good business in China relative to, you know, CS&I and other related activities. And then as it relates to the other geographies and the other markets, it really is sort of spot customer by customer based on the, you know, specific fabs and utilization rates that we're seeing there.

What end markets?

Yeah, what end markets and what, you know, what end customers they have. And so, you know, we've talked about the sort of disparity even within a certain customer for one fab to have higher utilization than another. And we do see that today. And that translates into CS&I volumes as well. I think the important piece is we continue to push more of our systems right into the field. And so, you know, on a period by period basis, we're having more available systems for CS&I revenue, which creates that nice, stable, you know, sort of floor of revenue for us, even in lower utilization and lower system shipments. And then, you know, the generally above average margins we get from that, you know, creates a nice little stable profit base for us as we continue to look to invest in the business going forward.

Got it. That was all from us. Thank you. Thanks, Dennis. Thanks.

Thank you so much. Our next question comes from the line of Duke San Jane with Bank of America Securities. Your line is now open.

Hi, thank you for taking the question and congrats on the quarter. I wanted to go back to the bookings question and I know you're not giving too much color beyond specific end markets, but in Q3, you said power in general mature were down, which are two of your biggest end markets. And even if Q4 increases, unless it increases materially, I think your backlog coverage is now only down to three quarters. So I'm curious what you're seeing in terms of visibility into 2026. I know Q4 and Q1 were guided flattish, but what happens after that? Thank you so much.

Okay. So, you know, so regarding bookings, I kind of say, you know, bookings can fluctuate from quarter to quarter. And I think, you know, Q3 is no exception. Based on our conversations with our customers across all segments, we're expecting to see increased activity regarding bookings. Regarding memory, which has always been a kind of almost like a turns business where we're kind of seeing some kind of optimism. You know, we're booking, we're building to a schedule, if you like. And so we expect we'll get the PO on the same time as we ship the tools. That's kind of where we are right now. I think when you look at that, we've got like four to five quarters worth of backlog. You know, still at $405 million dollars. that doesn't include any of our CSI base. So when you start putting the improving CSI on top of that, you've got a really solid, uh, financial base to which to build the business off. So, you know, I think, uh, we still believe we're, we're bouncing on the bottom, but we do see some exciting opportunities. And, you know, as, as every, every knows that, you know, this, uh, business can change quickly and, you know,

often order intake can improve quickly as well yeah and just add back you know our backlog is comprised of both both short and long-term you know orders ducks and right so you know to some extent that you know current period deliveries don't necessarily always all come out of backlog either um you know because we are building to sort of our forecast our customer expectations as russell noted We predominantly see that in the memory space, but that can also happen in other parts of the business as customers' needs and requirements shift and change. We want to make sure that we stand ready to be able to capture incremental opportunities. you know, for that. So, you know, operationally, we can operate pretty efficiently with, you know, sort of the type of production visibility that we have today. You know, we've been, you know, making some investments in inventory, given the strength of our balance sheet to be able to pivot pretty quickly to meet, you know, customer requirements that might come in in relatively short timeframes. You know, and in some instances, we can see customer needs book and ship in orders within a period, you know, not just within memory, but in other parts of the business as a result of that. Got it.

Thank you for the color. And then for China specifically, you said China Q3 was down. You expect it to be down again next quarter. But then a lot of the strength, especially in power, seems to be coming from China auto companies. So what would be the re the total revenue drivers into Q4 and Q1? Um, is it mostly the memory customers or is it Western power device customers? Thank you so much.

Yeah. So I, I, you know, I don't, we're not going to give specifics. I think I'm a markets just as of yet ducks and right. Uh, to some extent, um, you know, as we look ahead and see where that comes, we do expect to see some incremental memory opportunities, uh, supporting the business as we go forward. I just wanted to remind you as we entered the year, we anticipated China revenue being down both for General Mature and Power. So what's occurring here is not outside of our general expectations to the overall performance of the business, given the digestion of capacity that we see there. I think Russell in his prepared remarks noted that we are still seeing new entrants into the power market. I think there are customers today that see inflection points. They look at sort of the long-term trajectory of power, specifically in silicon carbide, they still see an opportunity to enter the market and to be successful in that space. So like I said, we're ready to support all those customers as we move forward, and we'll have more commentary on the future expected performance in our next call.

Got it. Thank you so much. Thanks, Duxes.

Thank you so much. Our final question comes from the line of David Dooley with Steelhead Securities. Your line is now open.

Is that Dave? Hello, David?

Can you hear me?

Okay, I finally figured out the technical difficulties. Congratulations on nice results in a difficult environment. Jamie, I think you were talking about systems that were pulled into Q3 from Q4 that impacted gross margins. I was wondering if you could elaborate a little bit more on that, and do you expect that to continue in Q4? And my second question is, basically adoption of silicon carbide outside of electric vehicles? And if you could perhaps elaborate on which end markets you think will start to contribute in a more significant way.

Yeah, so I'll start with the gross margin and the second question off to Russell there. But on the gross margin front, so there's a couple of things. So, you know, systems mix, so shipped systems mix within the period, you know, can impact margin. We did see a little bit of reshuffling of sys Shipped systems relative to expectations. That's the sort of product mix. The specific items we were talking about related to the installation. So, you know, this is really around some deferred revenue that, you know, related to systems that had shipped in prior periods or some installations that were at lower margin. We forecasted those getting signed off and completed in the fourth quarter timeframe. Team in the field worked to bring those in and get those closed off here in the third quarter, which led to some of the slightly higher revenue than what we had forecasted in that space, but unfortunately also carried some lower margin, which put a little bit of pressure on gross margin for the period. Those are, I think, a unique event. Each installation is its own unique event, by the way, so this is not something we will see this from time to time occur. But, you know, as of right now, this event will not repeat, you know, in that way going into the fourth quarter, you know, as we think about what the system's revenue will be overall. So between that product mix, the timing of those installation acceptances, and then sort of the makeup of the CS&I are the real drivers of gross margin for the period.

Well, I think your second question was about silicon carbide applications beyond electric vehicles, right? So just start off kind of like calibrate on electric vehicles. So I think David mentioned it, but I think it's kind of low double digits, like the 10% to 12% of cars having silicon carbide in them outside of, say, Teslas. I think part of that is because the design cycle is so long. for most car cycles, that if you want to design silicon carbide in, it's going to take you three or four years before it comes into production. So I think we're going to see a large increase there. And like I mentioned, I also think you're going to see more and more cars taking silicon carbide, including hybrids, and they're needing more and more silicon carbides. So that's kind of what we're seeing, and the huge competition and the lowering of costs I think is going to grow EVs quite significantly. But that aside, we are hearing about the electric grid and having kind of solid-state devices in the electric grid. We're also hearing about the data centers. But bear in mind, we don't necessarily know what our customers are shipping. But if you listen to some of the kind of reports, some of our customers have products that are going after the data centers. And there's multiple applications to the data centers. It comes in at the kilovolts, jumps down all the way through until it hits a couple of volts or whatever actually on the board. And those data centers are using ridiculous amounts of power, right? And I think the electrification is really going to support the penetration of AI going forward. Thank you.

Cheers, Dave.

All right.

Thank you so much for that. That does conclude our question and answer session. And thank you for your participation in today's conference. And this does conclude the presentation. I'm sorry. You may now disconnect. Good day.