Cincinnati Financial Corporation

Good day and welcome to the Cincinnati Financial Corporation 2025 Third Quarter Earnings Conference Call. All participants will be in listen-only mode. Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To ask a question, you may press star then one on your touch-tone phone. To withdraw your question, please press star then two. Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Dennis McDaniel, investor relations officer. Please go ahead.

Hello, this is Dennis McDaniel at Cincinnati Financial. Thank you for joining us for our third quarter 2025 earnings conference call. Late yesterday, we issued a news release on our results along with our supplemental financial package, including our quarter end investment portfolio. To find copies of any of these documents, please visit our investor website, investors.centhen.com. The shortest route to the information is the quarterly results section near the middle of the investor overview page. On this call, you'll first hear from President and Chief Executive Officer Steve Sprague, and then from Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer Mike Sewell. After their prepared remarks, investors participating on the call may ask questions. At that time, some responses may be made by others in the room with us, including Executive Chairman Steve Johnston, Chief Investment Officer Steve Soloria, and Cincinnati Insurance's Chief Claimants Officer Mark Shambo, and Senior Vice President of Corporate Finance Andy Schnell. Please note that some of the matters to be discussed today are forward-looking. These forward-looking statements involve certain risks and uncertainties. With respect to these risks and uncertainties, we direct your attention to our news release and to our various filings with the SEC. Also, a reconciliation of non-GAAP measures was provided with the news release. Statutory accounting data is prepared in accordance with statutory accounting rules and therefore is not reconciled to GAAP. Now, I'll turn over the call to Steve.

Good morning, and thank you for joining us today to hear more about our results. We had an excellent quarter of operating performance and remained confident in the long-term direction and strategy of our insurance business. We also reported very strong investment income growth in the third quarter of this year, with ongoing benefits from rebalancing our investment portfolio in the second half of last year. Net income of $1.1 billion for the third quarter of 2025 included recognition of $675 million on an after-tax basis for the increase in fair value of equity securities still held. Non-GAAP operating income of $449 million for the third quarter more than doubled the third quarter from a year ago. Our 88.2% third quarter 2025 property casualty combined ratio improved by 9.2 percentage points compared with third quarter last year. including a decrease of 9.3 points for catastrophe losses. The 84.7% accident year 2025 combined ratio before catastrophe losses for the third quarter improved by 2.1 percentage points compared with accident year 2024. Although the pace of growth slowed, our consolidated property casualty net written premiums still grew at a healthy 9% for the quarter. Our underwriters continue to emphasize pricing and risk segmentation on a policy-by-policy basis in their underwriting decisions. Estimated average renewal price increases for most lines of business during the third quarter were lower than the second quarter of 2025, but still at a level we believe was healthy. Commercial lines in total averaged increases in the mid-single-digit percentage range, and excess and surplus lines was again in the high single-digit range. Our personal line segment included homeowner in the low double-digit range and personal auto in the high single-digit range. Additional support for our premium growth objectives includes outstanding claims service and strong relationships with independent insurance agents who enthusiastically partner with us. Next, I'll highlight third quarter performance by insurance segment compared with a year ago. In addition to premium growth, underwriting profitability for each area was excellent. Commercial lines grew net written premiums 5% with a 91.1% combined ratio that improved by 1.9 percentage points, including 2.8 points from lower catastrophe losses. Personal lines grew net written premiums 14%, including growth in middle market accounts and Cincinnati private client. Its combined ratio was 88.2%, 22.1 percentage points better than last year, including a decrease of 19.5 points from lower catastrophe losses. Access and surplus lines grew net written premiums 11% and produced a combined ratio of 89.8%, an improvement of 5.5 percentage points. Cincinnati RE and Cincinnati Global each had an outstanding quarter and continue to reflect our efforts to diversify risk and further improve income stability. Cincinnati RE third quarter 2025 net written premiums decreased by 2%. primarily due to changing conditions in the property market. Its combined ratio was 80.8%. Cincinnati Global's combined ratio was 61.2%, along with premium growth of 6%, as it continues to benefit from product expansion in recent years. Our life insurance subsidiary had another strong quarter, including 40% net income growth. In addition, Term life insurance earned premiums grew 5%. I'll end my comments with a summary of our primary measure of long-term financial performance, the value creation ratio. Our VCR was 8.9% for the third quarter of 2025. Net income before investment gains or losses for the quarter contributed 3.1%. Our overall valuation of our investment portfolio and other items contributed 5.8%. Now, I'll turn it over to Chief Financial Officer Mike Sewell for additional insights regarding our financial performance.

Thank you, Steve, and thanks to all of you for joining us today. We reported growth of 14% in investment income in the third quarter of 25, reflecting efforts during 2024 to rebalance our investment portfolio in addition to strong cash flow from insurance operations. Bond interest income grew 21%, and net purchases of fixed maturity securities totaled $232 million for the quarter and $944 million for the first nine months of this year. The third quarter pre-tax average yield of 5.10% for the fixed maturity portfolio was up 30 basis points compared with last year. The average pre-tax yield for the total of purchased taxable and tax exempt bonds during the third quarter of this year was 5.52%. Dividend income was up 1% and net purchases of equity securities totaled $57 million for the quarter and $118 million on a year-to-date basis. Valuation changes in aggregate for the third quarter were favorable. for both our equity portfolio and our bond portfolio. Before tax effects, the net gain was $846 million for the equity portfolio and $242 million for the bond portfolio. At the end of the third quarter, the total investment portfolio net appreciated value was approximately $8.2 billion. The equity portfolio was in a net gain position of $8.4 billion, while the fixed maturity portfolio was in a net loss position of $217 million. Cash flow, in addition to higher bond yields, contributed to investment income growth. Cash flow from operating activities for the first nine months of 2025 was $2.2 billion, up 8%. Turning to expense management, our third quarter 2025 property casualty underwriting expense ratio decreased by 0.5 percentage points, primarily due to growth and earned premiums outpacing growth and expenses. For lost reserves, our approach remains consistent and aims for net amounts in the upper half of the actuarially estimated range of net loss and lost expense reserves. As we do each quarter, we considered new information, such as paid losses and case reserves. We then updated estimated ultimate losses and loss expenses by accident year and line of business. For the first nine months of 2025, our net addition to property casualty loss and loss expense reserves was $1.1 billion, including $900 million for the IBNR portion. During the third quarter, we experienced $22 million of property casualty net favorable reserve development on prior accident years that benefit the combined ratio by 0.9 percentage points. On an all-lines basis by accident year, net favorable reserve development for the first nine months of 25 totaled $176 million, including favorable $236 million for 24, favorable $16 million for 23, and an unfavorable $76 million in aggregate for accident years prior to 23. I'll conclude my comments with capital management highlights. We paid $134 million in dividends to shareholders during the third quarter of 2025. During the quarter, we repurchased approximately 404,000 shares at an average price per share of $149.75. We believe both our financial flexibility and our financial strength are in excellent shape. Parent company cash and marketable securities at quarter end was $5.5 billion. Debt to total capital remained under 10%. On October 10th, we terminated our existing $300 million line of credit agreement that was set to expire on February 4, 2026 and entered into a new $400 million unsecured revolving credit agreement. This new agreement has a five-year term with two optional one-year extensions and is fully subscribed among our four lenders. Our quarter end book value was a record high, $98.76 per share. With $15.4 billion of GAAP consolidated shareholders equity, providing ample capacity for profitable growth of our insurance operations. Now I'll turn the call back over to Steve. Thanks Mike.

I think this quarter's strong results demonstrate that we have the people and plans in place to keep building on our success. Our associates continue to answer the call for our agents and the communities they serve. building strong relationships and informing smart underwriting decisions. In September, Fitch Ratings recognized our decade of delivering profitability and growth by upgrading our insurer financial strength ratings for all of our standard market property casualty and life insurance subsidiaries to AA-, very strong, from A+, all with a stable outlook. As our 75th anniversary celebration winds down, we are looking ahead to the future, and we are excited by the opportunities we see to keep living the golden rule, meeting the evolving needs of agents and policyholders, and creating value for shareholders. I'll also note that Senior Vice President Andy Schnell is on the call and will be in future quarters. Following Theresa Hofer's retirement, Andy joined Cincinnati Insurance 23 years ago and has worked his way up the accounting ranks, proving his business acumen and his leadership abilities. He, Teresa, and Mike all worked closely over the past year to ensure a smooth transition that maintained our consistent accounting processes and procedures. As a reminder, with Andy, Mike, and me today are Steve Johnston, Steve Soloria, and Mark Shambo. Chloe, please open the call for questions.

We will now begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, you may press star then one on your touch tone phone. If you're using a speaker phone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys. If at any time your question has been addressed and you would like to withdraw your question, please press star then two.

At this time, we will pause momentarily to assemble our roster. The first question comes from Michael Phillips with Oppenheimer.

Please go ahead.

Thank you, and good morning, everybody. I wanted to start with commercial auto, if I could, try to drill down a little bit, so kind of what's happening there for you guys. You've taken small bites, obviously really pretty small bites of the Apple PYD, I think five quarters in a row. But how do we, I guess, how do we get comfortable with PYD charges at the same time your current picks are kind of coming down at the same time? Can you talk about that, please?

Yeah, Mike, this is Steve Spray. I can start there. You know, let me just talk about maybe overall reserves in general, because I think that's a question that we'd love to love to address. And the way I look at it is, you know, we've had 30 plus years of over of all lines favorable development. And, you know, through nine months of this year, we're favorable. The quarter is favorable. Every quarter we're getting, you know, I noticed we get movement to and fro. This quarter, commercial property work comp, very favorable. Obviously, commercial auto and casualty, you know, we're having a little bit of a prior year. I think the one way I get really comfortable, the data point that I'm getting comfortable with is if you look at, on an all-lines basis, from each accident year, From 2020 forward, our initial pick for each of those accident years has developed favorably as of 9-30. Now, commercial auto has had maybe a little bit of a noise in it there by accident year. But, you know, we're profitable through nine months, commercial auto. And I just feel like the prudent approach that we have taken, the consistent approach, the consistent team, We're just, we're trying to, you know, stay ahead of that, stay ahead of that line of business that has, you know, run a little bit of a temperature.

Yeah, okay, Steve, I guess that's it. I mean, a little bit of a temperature. We've seen some companies take some charges, some not, but some, I think, more have than those that haven't. And so when we see, you know, kind of the decrease in your current picks that maybe has some, for that line specifically, Steve, that makes them worried that maybe down the road, some of that could reverse back and those P&D charges could increase. Anything in particular on commercial auto specifically that worries you or that you see that would give calls for alarm there?

Now, you know, the one thing I look at there, too, is, as you know, Mike, we're a package underwriter, a package company. typically small to mid-market. We don't write a lot of transportation business. We don't have a big, heavy auto fleet. And I think some of the challenges, especially with severity that you've seen in the industry over the last several years, has really come from that segment. So just in the book itself, I've got confidence over the long pole. And especially, again, you know, we're profitable in 2025 here, both for the quarter and for the full nine months in commercial auto. I don't know, Mike, do you want to add something here?

Just real quick, Mike, just, you know, to put that $10 million of unfavorable development into perspective, about $7 million of it, with from accident year 2019 and 2020. So a little bit older. Total reserves for commercial auto is approaching a billion dollars. So when you kind of put it all together, like Steve said, I think we feel really good where we're at and with the reserving that we do.

Okay. Yeah, no, Mike, thanks for that. That's a good color. I guess last one, then. If you look at your... the incurred loss detail by line for commercial lines, and this could be just an anomaly, but is there anything you're seeing? So the large losses, $5 million and up, kind of picked up. It looks like the largest in quite a while. Anything you're seeing on the large claims that is worrisome, or is this more of a quarterly anomaly?

You know, I would say this is Mike Sewell again, so let me just answer that real quick. You know, for the current accident year, We had about the same number of large losses in total. There was 44 new losses in the current year versus 45 last year. So one less large loss. And, again, that would be for a current accident year basis. But it's about $34 million higher in the current year than last year. That was led, I'll say, by both the, or at least the increase was led by commercial property. Homeowner property, or the commercial property was up 30 million. The homeowner was up about 27 million. But on the other side, commercial casualty was down 12 million, and other commercial was down 12 million. So you've got some ups and downs, I would say, from looking at The large losses, there was no indication of anything that was an unexpected concentration, I'll say, of the large losses, whether it was by risk category, geographic region, you know, agency or field marketing territory. So, you know, there's just going to be some volatility from quarter to quarter, but nothing too exciting to point out.

Okay, Mike, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

The next question comes from Paul Newsome with Piper Sandler.

Please go ahead.

Good morning. Thanks for the call. You know, could you, you know, take Mike's question and insert general liability instead of commercial auto and maybe give us some thoughts here? Obviously, you know, everyone's referring back to the Selective. bad quarter and there are issues in both of those lines and it's fairly natural given that they've long thought of themselves as peer reviewers.

Yeah. Good morning, Paul. Appreciate the question. Kind of what I was talking about before where I get the confidence, you know, one thing I would say, again, maybe kind of a bigger picture is I think it's well documented across our country. how legal system abuse is impacting all of us, including our industry, including Cincinnati Insurance. So that, you know, that is certainly, you know, adding some pressure there. But again, let me go back to what gives me the confidence, and I'll specifically speak to casualty as well, is just, again, this consistent process we have, a consistent team, The overall, all lines track record of 30 plus years of favorable development. Again, favorable for the quarter, favorable for the full nine months. And then the other data point that I was really paying attention to for this quarter is just, again, if you look at each of the accident years, from 2020 and forward, if you look at our initial pick for each of those action years, it has developed favorably on an all-lines basis as of 9-30. And that holds true for casualty as well.

Fantastic. And then a completely different subject, actually got some questions this morning. on the investment portfolio. Ordinarily, you never ask about this because the credit quality of the book has been extraordinarily high for a long time. But just kind of looking at a couple of runs, it looks like there may be some subprime borrowers in there. And I'm just curious if there's been any change in the credit quality profile and any thoughts that you have about guess what, Prima Lend or whatever you got in there that might be a little different than what you've historically seen in the bond portfolio. Thanks, Paul. This is Steve.

You know, overall, the strategy hasn't changed. Our focus has been more on the higher quality bond area. You know, if we were involved in the high yield area, it would be in the BBs. But for the most part, we're buying investment grade quality bonds you know, tending to keep quality in the portfolio as opposed to reach for yield where we don't need to.

Great. Thank you, guys.

Appreciate the help as always.

Thank you, Paul.

The next question comes from Gregory Peters with Raymond James. Please go ahead.

Hey, good morning, everyone. The first question is just on the new business trends. And obviously, there's probably some price competition issues that are affecting some of your new business. But maybe you could speak to the results in the third quarter and what you think about new business going forward, you know, because it is a competitive marketplace.

Yeah, thanks, Greg. Steve Spray again here. If you look, first of all, I would say feel really good about the new business numbers for all segments, all major, you know, our standard segments plus our E&S company on an absolute basis. And, you know, admittedly, I hate saying there's a tough comp in the prior year. It sounds like an excuse. We don't do that around here. But if you kind of harken back, to 2024, let me talk about, let me just talk about personal lines first. You know, for the last couple of years, we've been talking about this once in a generation, once in a lifetime, hard market and personal lines. And 2024 was probably the peak of that. And we were able as a company, because of our balance sheet, because of our financial strength, because of the relationships we have with our agents, we were able to take advantage of of that hard market opportunity and really, you know, pick up the pace I'd say on new business growth or take advantage of that opportunity. Matter of fact, you know, over the last three and a half years, we've doubled our personal lines net written premium as a company. So again, hard market there, and we were able to take advantage of that. That new business this year is still strong, you know, California is making a little bit of an impact there, but just on an absolute basis, personal lines and new business strong. Commercial lines, same kind of thing going. If you look at an absolute basis, the new business dollars there are, again, very strong, and you're right. There's pressure from a competitive standpoint, but our underwriters, both new and renewal, are executing on our segmentation strategy and not giving up, you know, an ounce of profit over the long term for any short-term top-line growth. So I just, I feel on an absolute basis with the numbers. I feel really good about the new business given the market. And I also feel good about, more importantly, how we're pricing and underwriting that business. You know, and then our ENS company, our ENS company, the new business, again, maybe under a little bit of pressure, but on an absolute basis, it's something that I'm very comfortable with and think that our runway, by appointing more agencies, continuing to expand our appetite and expertise, I just feel good about where we're heading for the future on that.

Yeah, thanks for that detail. You know, you brought up in your answer California, and you also mentioned the once-in-a-generation hard market and personal lines. You know, given the events of the first quarter, the big fire loss in California, can you talk about how, you know, you're viewing California and the opportunity for growth in that state, whether it's E&S, personal or commercial, or maybe even admitted? you know, as you think about the plans for 2026?

Yeah, absolutely. First, I'd comment that we've got great agents and policyholders in California. And as a company, we want to continue to be a stable, consistent market for them. As we've talked over the, you know, since the fire, We always do a deep dive on large losses and see if there's any lessons learned. And I think it's safe to say that we in the industry have an updated view of risk resulting from that fire. And kind of cutting to the chase on that for you, Greg, it really is around just updating the model view, conflagration, the sustained level of winds, And it's giving us a different view of risk on aggregation. And, you know, from my perspective, our ENS pricing in terms and conditions pre-fire, even post-fire, I look at them and say, very solid, really comfortable with where we were there. So we're focused on just a new view of aggregation. And our plans are already in motion and being executed from that standpoint. Now to your question on ENS or admitted and then commercial. You know, as of 12-31 of 24, 77% of our homeowner premiums in California were already written on an ENS basis. You can expect that number will grow. We put some moratoriums in place. for new business, uh, while we were, you know, gaining our lessons learned and we've begun writing some more new business, uh, in non aggregation areas, as you might imagine. So I think, uh, ENS is going to continue to be a big portion of what we do in California going forward. Now, commercially, we are not active in California. on an admitted basis. And when I say active, we're not appointing agencies in California from an admitted commercial. We don't have associates on the ground in California calling on agents from an admitted standpoint. We did, just several months ago, enter California for commercial E&S business, and that's going well. It's early, but that's going well also.

I guess in related to that answer just on California, you said that ENS is still a focus for you for personal lines. Do you have any view on, you know, the regulatory framework around the sustainable insurance mechanism that they're trying to roll out? I guess the fact that you're focused still on ENS suggests that you're somewhat skeptical or cautious about that. But I'm just curious if you have a view on that. that initiative by the politicians in the Department of Insurance?

Yeah, that's something we're watching closely and we continue to, you know, we're continuing to work with the California Department of Insurance to say in areas where, you know, we're not wildfire prone, in areas where we do write admitted business, you know, our auto, Our other coverages would be written on an admitted basis. The homeowner is primarily where you're going to find the E&S. We just continue to work with the California DOI to try to get to a win-win for everybody. Like I said before, we've got great agents and we've got great policyholders and our claims staff. just did an outstanding job through the fire. The feedback we got from agents and policyholders alike didn't surprise me, but it just validated everything we've done at this company delivering on the promise for the last 75 years. California was a microcosm of, I think, everything we do well when things go bad.

Thanks for the call. Yeah. Thank you, Greg.

The next question comes from Mike Zaremski with BMW. Please go ahead.

Okay, thanks. Circling back to, trying to think of a joke at BMO, obviously. Circling back to the capital investment portfolio questions, Steve, you started out saying, talking about the strength of investment income from the rebalancing last year. I guess, you know, we can see the equity markets have been extremely strong here today, which has helped you all. I'm just trying to understand, is there a fast and hard kind of ratio that if the equity markets still keep going up, you'll need to do another rebalancing? And just related, has Cincinnati's view of excess capital changed at all in recent quarters? Thanks.

Steve, this is, sorry, this is Steve Saloria. In regards to the equity portfolio, we have always managed and trimmed around growth and individual names or sector exposures, kind of adhering to our investment policy statement. We continue to evaluate it. Last year's move was a kind of a compilation of a lot of internal discussion, but a lot of external factors driving our action, our initial decision. to trim was a typical one that we would have. And it just kind of grew as we began to look at external factors like the upcoming election, potential tax rate changes, and the implications for the capital gains we might have to pay. So there were a lot of external factors driving it, which made it a larger bite of the apple, so to speak. I wouldn't take it off the table moving forward, but there Those external factors aren't weighing on us right now, so we'll continue to kind of manage it more at the individual security and industry level where we need to just trim to manage the portfolio. I'll kind of leave the capital management discussion for a different audience.

Got it.

I guess just sticking with excess capital in the U.S. portfolio, you know, from the outside looking in, high level, you know, Cincinnati would appear to have a very large excess capital position. But would you not agree with that because, you know, the regulatory framework or your internal model would say, hey, you need to factor in a big equity market decline that stays there for a period of time. So, you know, you're really just effectively not holding excess because you want to have that money for a potential worst times in equity markets?

Thanks for the question. This is Mike Sewell. Really, our capital position of how we manage capital really has not, I'll say, has not changed. We think of it, there's five ways to invest your capital into you know, our number one is invest in the business. So we're holding enough capital to grow the business. You know, we've gone through those details with whether it's Cincy Reeves, CGU, California, you know, et cetera, et cetera, ENS business. That's our number one use of capital. We do think obviously of dividends that we pay to shareholders, buybacks, you know, and other things. But, you know, There are some regulatory requirements that we watch to make sure that we don't hold too much equity securities. And we're well within any parameters there. So I think it's been a winning strategy, what Steve Soloria has done with the portfolio and, you know, looking at the results this year. Uh, I think it's been very exciting and I'm excited to see, uh, what we do with that, uh, that capital as we grow our business, uh, for the remainder of this year and 26, 27 and beyond.

Got it. And lastly, um, moving to the, uh, commercial competitive environment, um, probably not, not ENS, it's just a traditional, uh, standard commercial, um, A lot of questions fielded all around on kind of the cycle. No surprise, right? You talked about pricing power, you know, decelerating a bit sequentially. Should investors, I guess, be prepared for pricing, you know, to continue to decel on average in the coming years, just given the health of the industry and Cincinnati included, or is there Is there a dynamic on loss trend, right? You've got a lot of questions on casualty, not flare-ups, right, and little additions to reserves. Is there a dynamic on loss cost trend that we're not appreciating that might kind of keep this cycle from looking like many previous soft cycles? Thanks.

Yeah, thanks, Mike. Yeah, I'd say on the commercial standard, the admitted business, I would call the market, it's competitive, but I would still call it rational, stable. I think there are still loss headwinds for our industry that impact that commercial, severe convective storm or just cat losses in general. Q3 was a light cat quarter, but let's look at a full year and and just the trends that have been going on with catastrophes. I think the legal system, we talk about legal system abuse or social inflation, however you want to look at that. I think that is still facing us as an industry, and certainly here at Cincinnati Insurance, we're paying attention to it. So I think we're still in a favorable rate environment. Now, for us specifically at Cincinnati, it literally, you know, we talk about this all the time, and I think it's key, is it's we're underwriting and pricing risk by risk. The next risk in front of us is how we're viewing it. I won't speak necessarily for the go forward for the industry, but I can tell you for Cincinnati, our net written premium growth for commercial lines here was, I think we announced 5%. And commercial lines, again, standard admitted commercial lines, 13 consecutive years of underwriting profit. And our underwriters working with our agents executing on a segmentation strategy are just doing, they're doing exactly what we ask of them. And as that book continues to perform well, I think it's reasonable to understand that the price adequacy of the book continues to improve. And just as we ask our underwriters to take appropriate action on the business that is, we'll call it least adequately priced, we tell them that on the other end, that business that's very adequately priced, do what we need to do to retain it. So as that book becomes more and more adequately priced, and we are executing on that segmentation strategy, I think what you're seeing is some pressure on the average net rate. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Yeah, it does. I guess we're all trying to figure out if others are also feeling like they've re-underwritten well enough to kind of do the same. But clearly you guys are in a great position. So thanks.

Yeah, Mike, I just make sure I make a point. For us, it's not a re-underwriting. This is the strategy that we've been executing really for the last decade that has served us well. And we're going to stick to it going forward, too. So it's profit first. and stable, consistent financial strength for our agents and policyholders over the long pull, which comes with a modest underwriting profit.

Thank you.

The next question comes from Josh Shanker with Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Yeah, thank you very much for taking my question. Obviously, the growth, even though it's decelerating, it's still better than most of your competitors. A lot of that is due to the significant increase in agency appointments and whatnot. Is there anything you can do to help us to sort of disaggregate how much of the growth is expansion into new agencies and how much is further penetration into the agencies you already have?

Yeah, Josh, that's Steve again. You know, I forget the exact number that we disclosed as far as how much the new agency appointments have impacted new business. But what I will tell you there is, you know, we've got a proven strategy, I think, of really knowing how to underwrite agencies and vet agencies and do business with the most professional agencies, go into an agency out in the field and find agencies where we're aligned. and be very deliberate about expanding the distribution. And then we build deep relationships with them. And, you know, when we onboard an agency, you know, you've seen one agency, you've seen one agency to be perfectly candid that some will take off faster than others. But what we focus on is the relationship that we have with those agencies. I guess a long-winded answer, a way of saying this is a long-term thing for us. So can we see an uptick in new business, quarter to quarter, from the new agencies we appoint? Yes. But that's not what we're focused on. We're focused on these relationships and making sure that we're aligned and that we're deepening the relationship. We're giving each one of these agencies what I call the Cincinnati experience. And then over the long term, hall, the premium, the growth will take care of its, take care of itself.

Well, you know, the Cincinnati experience, you know, I remember when I started, um, covering the site, I think you had 1600 agents and in the last nine months you've appointed 355. Part of that experience was, uh, the direct relationship with the agents in a very, uh, infant manner. At this level of growth, how are you maintaining that cultural part of what the Cincinnati agency experience used to be?

Yeah, thanks, Josh. I think it's all relative. And you're right, we were at 1,600. Now we're at, say, roughly 2,300 agencies. And if you look at us relative to our peers, we still have an extremely exclusive contract. And agencies run in different circles. Agencies have different centers of influence. They write, two agencies in the same town obviously write different business. And we have, we've got plenty of room to continue to expand the distribution, to keep appointing agencies across the country in our footprint and not dilute that franchise. The franchise value I think, is the, like you said, the Cincinnati experience. And by that, I mean associates on the ground in the community where the agents are, calling on them on a regular basis, making decisions locally. That's the Cincinnati experience. And we can repeat that over even continuing to add more and more agencies. And we've seen over the last several years, as we've added more agencies in our current footprint, that our relationships with our long-term partners stay solid. In many cases, we continue to grow even more with those agencies. And then now we've picked up an additional partner and we get access to the book of business that they have. So we're going to be, I don't want to be willy-nilly about it, Josh, at all, because it's anything but that. This is the same thing we've done for 75 years in partnering with professional agents. It's just that we are picking up the pace a bit.

Would you expect to have more agency appointments in 2026 than in 2025?

Yeah, we haven't put out any goals on that. The last thing we want is just to be appointing an agency to be appointing an agency. We ask every single one of our field reps, 185 of them across the country, to know every single independent agent in their territory and make sure Those agencies, identify those agencies where we are most aligned, and when it's time to make another appointment for whatever reason, they go ahead and do that. So we're not putting out any goals. We're not putting any additional requirements on the field reps. We're just adding more territories. That's one key to it is we're not going to – our field territories right now, our field reps average – They call on an average of about 14 agencies. We don't see that changing over time. Again, the same Cincinnati experience, just more of the same.

Hey, Josh, let me just mention on page 42 of our 10Q, we do give some information on premiums by new appointed agencies in 25 and 24.

Thank you very much. Thanks, Josh.

Again, if you have a question, please press star then 1. The next question comes from Mayor Shields with KBW. Please go ahead.

Great. Thanks so much. I wanted to get a sense as to how you're thinking about tax-free reinsurance for 2026. And I don't know whether that thought process has changed from early in the year when we had these very significant fire losses to more recent areas where catastrophes have been benign.

Yeah, thanks, Mayor. Steve Spray again. Obviously, we're In the throes of renewal season, specifically for property cat cover, just as a reminder, right now we have a $200 million retention on any individual cat event, and then we buy 1.6x of that $200 million up the tower. Without committing to what we're going to do on 2022, or 1-1-26, because that's not been finalized. I can say that we will remain consistent in the way that we purchase property cat cover, and that is for balance sheet protection. We talked a little earlier about our strong capital position. We believe in underwriting and pricing our own business and, you know, sharing in the losses. So you You know, over time, we've always continued, as we've grown and as our capital position has grown, we've moved up in retention, and we continue to buy more on top of the program for that, again, for that balance sheet protection. And so that philosophy, that strategy will not change.

Okay, perfect. Thank you very much. Thanks, Mayor.

This concludes our question and answer session.

I would like to turn the conference back over to Steve Spray, CEO, for any closing remarks.

Thank you, Chloe, and thank you all for joining us today. We also look forward to speaking with you again on our fourth quarter call.

The conference has now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation.