3/5/2025

speaker
Conference Operator
Call Moderator

Hello. Welcome to Compost Secure Inc. 4th Quarter and 4-Year 2024 Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are on a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask the question during the session, you will need to press star 1-1 on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising your hand is raised. To withdraw your question, please press star 1-1 again. I would now like to turn the conference over to Stephen Fetter, General Counsel and Corporate Secretary for Compose Secure. You may begin.

speaker
Stephen Fetter
General Counsel and Corporate Secretary

Good afternoon, and thank you for joining us. With me on the call is Dave Cody, Executive Chairman of Compose Secure, John Wilk, Chief Executive Officer, and Tim Fitzsimmons, Chief Financial Officer. They will begin with prepared remarks, and then we will open the call for Q&A. During the call, we will make statements relating to our business that may be considered forward-looking, including statements concerning our plans to execute on our growth strategy and our ability to maintain existing and acquire new customers, as well as other statements regarding our plans and prospects. Forward-looking statements may often be identified with words such as we expect, we anticipate, or upcoming. These statements reflect our views only as of today and should not be considered our views as of any subsequent date. We undertake no obligation to update or revise these forward-looking statements. Forward-looking statements are not promises or guarantees of future performance and are subject to a variety of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from our expectations. For a discussion of risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from our expectations, Please refer to the information in our annual report on Form 10-K and other reports filed with the SEC available on the IR section of our website and on the SEC's website at SEC.gov. Please note that today's discussion will include certain non-GAAP financial measures, including adjusted EBITDA, adjusted net income, adjusted EPS, net debt, and free cash flow. The company believes these non-GAAP financial measures provide useful information to management and investors regarding certain financial and business trends impacting the company's financial condition and results of operations. These non-GAAP financial measures should not be considered as an alternative to net income or any other performance measures derived in accordance with U.S. GAAP and may be different from similarly titled non-GAAP measures used by other companies. A reconciliation of gap to non-gap measures is available in our press release and earnings presentation available in the IR section of our website. Thank you. With that said, let me turn the call over to Executive Chairman Dave Cody.

speaker
Dave Cody
Executive Chairman

Dave Cody Good afternoon, everyone. Over the past several months, I've spent considerable time with the team and I've developed an even deeper appreciation for the strengths of this business. Its leadership in metal credit cards, strong culture of innovation, And most importantly, the significant long-term potential of the business. We've taken foundational steps in the last six months to position the company for long-term success. We've initiated investments to build a high-performance culture and strengthen our operating capabilities. We've begun implementing the Compost Secure Operating System, or COS, to enhance efficiency and execution across all areas of the business. And importantly, we're reinvigorating our organic growth potential. Given we have less than 1% penetration of the current card market and the financial and brand benefits to a card issuer are huge, the upside for us is significant. We believe these investments will drive meaningful results over time, enhancing our ability to foster a culture of excellence that delivers for our customers, employees, and investors. So with that, I'll turn it over to John.

speaker
John Wilk
Chief Executive Officer

Thanks, Dave, and thank you all for joining us for our fourth quarter and full year conference call. 2024 was a foundational year for Acampo Secure. We delivered 8% growth in net sales with robust free cash flow generation while continuing to drive product innovation and expand our business internationally. We also materially improved our balance sheet last year with a 60% reduction in net debt down to $120 million. Our fourth quarter net sales were essentially flat, and our fourth quarter adjusted EBITDA was down 10%, reflecting the investments we are making in our business to ignite organic growth and drive improved operating efficiencies throughout the organization. We're also excited to announce our first quarter of positive net contribution for Arculus in Q4. Looking ahead, we continue to focus on accelerating payment card organic growth, driving efficiency through the Compose Secure Operating System, gaining additional traction with Arculus, and delivering accretive M&A. We took a big step in establishing our foundation for M&A by completing the spinoff of Resolute Holdings on February 28th, positioning our business for accelerated growth and diversification of revenue. For the upcoming year, we expect mid single digit growth for both net sales and adjusted EBITDA with sales momentum building through the year. Our adjusted EBITDA expectations also include the payment of the new resolute holdings management fee for 2025 and 2024 on a pro forma basis. On slide four, you'll see that we had several high-profile metal payment card launches around the globe for both traditional banks and fintechs. These launches included the Citi American Airlines card, which represents our first domestic metal card program with Citi, Barclays, the private bank card in the UK, and JetBlue co-branding card in the US, In addition, other examples included HSBC and Capital on Top, among others. On slide five, you can see Compose Secure's largest customers continue to report purchase volume growth year after year, year over year, even in the face of economic uncertainty around tariffs. On slide six, We also see continued strength of the payment card industry supported by healthy consumer spending and demand for premium products in the commentary from these players. As an example, Capital One continues to see strong new account growth in its domestic card business with increased investment in premium benefits and differentiated experiences. Meanwhile, Visa and MasterCard highlight value-added services, fraud prevention solutions, and the resilience of consumer spending even amid economic fluctuations. For those of you new to our story, on slide seven, we showcase why metal cards continue to gain traction. Beyond aesthetics, metal cards deliver real business value, enhancing issuer branding, driving higher customer acquisition, and increasing top of wallet positioning. Despite the introduction of digital wallets over the past decade, payment cards remain the preferred choice for consumers. On slide 8, we highlight the Arculus security and authentication solutions. Arculus Authenticate provides seamless multi-factor authentication for secure logins and fraud prevention, while Arculus Cold Storage enables users to safeguard their digital asset keys with advanced encryption. As I mentioned earlier, we're pleased to report that Q4 marked our first quarter of positive net contribution from Arculus, and we remain well positioned to achieve our net positive target for Arculus for the full year of 2025. On a full year basis for 2024, Arculus generated 10.5 million of revenue and a net investment of 3.5 million of adjusted EBITDA when adding back depreciation and stock-based compensation. With that, I'll hand it over to Tim for a deeper discussion on our financials.

speaker
Tim Fitzsimmons
Chief Financial Officer

Thank you, John, and good afternoon, everyone. I'll provide a more detailed overview of our Q4 and full year 2024 financial performance and then turn it back to John before we open the call for questions. Unless stated otherwise, all comparison and variance commentary are on a year-over-year basis. In Q4, net sales increased by 1% to $100.9 million. Domestic sales were flat year over year. International net sales were up 7% to $15.4 million. Gross profit for the quarter was $52.5 million, or 52.1% of net sales, compared to $52.9 million, or 52.9% for the same quarter of the prior year. Net loss was $48.4 million in Q4 compared to net income of $31 million last year. The decrease was driven by an improvement to the company's stock price during the quarter, which led to a change in the fair value of the warrant liabilities, earn-out consideration liability, and derivative liability. Net loss per share was $0.53 per basic and $0.53 per diluted share, compared to $0.17 per basic and diluted share for the same quarter of the prior year. Adjusted EBITDA in Q4 decreased by 10% to 33.6 million, with the decline being driven by strategic investments in the business that we expect will reinvigorate organic growth and improve operating efficiencies. Adjusted net income was up 8% in Q4 to 24.8 million, with the improvements driven by interest rate savings from the conversion into equity of 130 million of exchangeable notes. Adjusted EPS was 27 cents per basic and 20 cents per diluted share, compared to 29 cents per basic and 24 cents per diluted share in the prior year. Quickly reviewing our full year results, net sales grew 8% to 420.6 million. Domestic sales increased 7%, reflecting continued demand for premium metal cards. International sales grew 11%, highlighting our successful expansion in key global markets. Gross profits for the full year was $219.2 million, with a gross margin of 52.1% compared to 53.5% in 2023. This decline was primarily due to production of new product constructions and inflationary pressures on wages and materials. Adjusted EBITDA increased 4% to $151.4 million. Adjusted net income increased 11% to $98.2 million. Net loss was $83.2 million compared to net income of $112.5 million in 2023. The decrease was due to changes to the fair value of the warrant liabilities, earn-out consideration liability, and the derivative liability. partially offset by a decrease in operating expenses. Adjusted EPS was $1.17 per basic and $0.95 per diluted share, compared to $1.12 per basic and $0.92 per diluted share in 2023. Moving on to the balance sheet. As of December 31st, 2024, we had $77.5 million of cash in cash equivalents and total debt of $197.5 This compares to $41.2 million of cash and cash equivalents and $340.3 million of debt at December 31, 2023. Our bank agreement senior secured debt leverage ratio was 1.25 times at December 31, 2024, based on total secured debt of $197.5 million and trailing 12-month bank-adjusted EBITDA. of 157.8 million. This compares to a leverage ratio of 1.39 times at December 31st, 2023. Turning to our cash flow statement on slide 15, you could see that net cash provided by operating activities for 2024 was 129.6 million, up 24% compared to last year, with free cash flow up 62% to 84.9 million. I will now hand it back over to John for closing remarks before we take questions.

speaker
John Wilk
Chief Executive Officer

Thanks, Tim. As I mentioned earlier, for 2025, we expect mid single-digit growth in both net sales and adjusted EBITDA. Our sales momentum is expected to build throughout the year, supported by our deep customer relationships and innovative product offerings. We are also planting seeds to accelerate growth while leveraging the Compose Secure operating system to drive operational excellence. We remain mindful of global economic tensions, including tariffs and further pressure on the consumer, and are committed to being thoughtful about running and investing our business to ensure we deliver both short and long term value for our shareholders. On slide 17, I'll close by sharing a reminder of our key objectives for 2025, accelerating payment card organic growth, driving efficiency through the compost secure operating system, continuing to deliver arculous traction, and delivering accretive M&A. With that, I'd like to open up the call for Q&A.

speaker
Conference Operator
Call Moderator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as I'm reminded to ask the question, please press Start 11 on your telephone, then wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press Start 11 again. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. Our first question comes from the line of Moshe Orenburg with TD Cohen. Your line is open.

speaker
Moshe Orenburg
Analyst, TD Cohen

Great. Can you guys hear me? We can. Great. So I guess, you know, you did say that the, you know, your revenue growth will accelerate during the course of the year. Can you talk a little bit about, you know, what might end, you know, what rate might it end 2025? And what are the factors that are kind of causing that acceleration? Like, are those things, you know, those contracts you already have in hand? Like, how does that work?

speaker
John Wilk
Chief Executive Officer

Thanks, Moshe. The look, we're not giving quarter-by-quarter guidance, Moshe. We're just trying to give you some insight into what we see in a combination of the backlog and pipeline that we use to manage the business with pretty good visibility.

speaker
Moshe Orenburg
Analyst, TD Cohen

Gotcha. Okay. And maybe if you could kind of just expand and flesh out a little bit the things that and the steps that the compost secure operating system, what do you expect to be realized during 25? What kind of things are going on that'll be realized after 2025?

speaker
John Wilk
Chief Executive Officer

So for us, the operating system looks at really the entirety of the company. Think about from the time we get an order in till we get cash in the door. So it's not just manufacturing or lean manufacturing sort of concepts that were deep, you know, diving deep within that function. So we're literally looking at every function across the place, HR, finance, you know, sales, how we process orders, and then motion, again, a deep dive into the manufacturing and a lot of the lean manufacturing concepts to drive out those efficiencies. It's a combination of a somewhat relentless and maniacal focus that we bring to that discipline. And we always think we've been good at this. Dave and what he brings to the table is just next level around how to think about this. So that's where he's pushing us and that's where we are driving as a team to deliver those efficiencies. And we expect to see those. We're making the investments now. We expect to see those building as well as we move through the year and into next year, where we should really start to see the benefits of both the organic growth side and the efficiency side.

speaker
Moshe Orenburg
Analyst, TD Cohen

Great. Thanks. I'll get back to you.

speaker
John Wilk
Chief Executive Officer

Thanks, Moshe.

speaker
Conference Operator
Call Moderator

Will you stand by for our next question? Our next question comes from the line of Hal Ghosh with B-Rally Securities. Your line is open.

speaker
Hal Ghosh
Analyst, B-Rally Securities

Hey, thank you. First question's on Arculus. Thanks for the commentary on the detail there. What was the exit rate revenue for Arculus on our annualized run rate, and what can we expect this business maybe to contribute versus 2024? Thanks.

speaker
John Wilk
Chief Executive Officer

We're not going to break down the guidance within Payment Card versus Arculus, but the run rate exit, was quite strong. So the fourth quarter was very strong in terms of how we finished, and it does sort of roll us into a good run rate to ensure that we're going to deliver that net positive result in 2025 and really start to see, we think, what this business can deliver. We feel really good about where we ended and where we're entering this year around R2S, both on the authentication side and momentum we're seeing on the cold storage side.

speaker
Hal Ghosh
Analyst, B-Rally Securities

Okay. And on the metal car business, can you just give us maybe a feel for what the funnel and pipeline is for domestic and then international? Because both, they basically grow at different rates. They're very difficult to predict. Quarter to quarter, one contributes one quarter, one the other. Give us your thoughts on that.

speaker
John Wilk
Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, so if you remember last year how we talked, we had a kind of lower first quarter internationally, and I talked very specifically about, you know, think of it over kind of the year where we expect international to be about 20% of revenue as we move through the year. It just, because of the size, because of the nature of those orders, we do see more variability in when some of those come through. We said it would come out about 20%. I think for the full year, we came out about 18%, which was right in line with what we expected. And I'd say as we look into 2025, we're pretty balanced about what we see on both the domestic and the international growth side. In the end, international growth was stronger year over year for us last year.

speaker
Hal Ghosh
Analyst, B-Rally Securities

Yeah. Okay. Thank you. I'll get back in the queue. Thanks. Thanks, John. Thanks, Al.

speaker
Conference Operator
Call Moderator

Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Cassie Chan with Bank of America. Your line is open.

speaker
Cassie Chan
Analyst, Bank of America

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking the question. I guess first just wanted to ask about Resolute. Obviously, that's all squared away now, but just wanted to walk through and just make sure we understand what the Resolute impact on your P&L is for 2025. And I guess more broadly, what part they're going to be playing in terms of, you know, overall strategy for your business. You guys have talked about creative M&A a lot. You know, can you just give us a little bit more detail in terms of the type or size of the companies that you're looking at as well? Thank you.

speaker
John Wilk
Chief Executive Officer

Sure. So, Cassie, I'd say the impact on the business is huge. Incredibly meaningful. And it's, to me, across all three dimensions that we talk about. It's organic growth. It is the operating system work. And it is the M&A work. So very active input and participation with the Resolute team and with Dave specifically across all three of those. So Dave's literally been on customer calls with us, meeting with me, meeting with the team on the operating system work. And there is a very robust pipeline of opportunities. Resolute had a robust pipeline of opportunities when they were looking at Compose Secure. That work remains in terms of things we'll look at up and down the spectrum of opportunities that will deliver accretive M&A. Like that is the sort of number one criteria. It'll deliver value for our investors. And Dave, I don't know if you wanna jump in there. I hope that was helpful.

speaker
Conference Operator
Call Moderator

Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Jacob Stephon with Lake Street Capital Markets. Your line is open.

speaker
Jacob Stephon
Analyst, Lake Street Capital Markets

I appreciate you taking the questions. Maybe if you could just kind of piece the guidance out for us a little bit, the mid-single-digit revenue growth. How do you kind of think about it when you look at, you know, stabilized kind of card programs versus kind of some of your newer ramping programs and overall kind of new card launches?

speaker
John Wilk
Chief Executive Officer

Jacob, every year for us is a mix of each of those variables, right? It's the existing programs, existing clients, new programs, existing clients, and what we call new-new. Last year, really strong growth with kind of new clients and new programs from existing clients and would expect all three to be important contributors to the growth in 2025. So importantly, we're planting the seeds, we're building out the sales team further to help ensure that we can, you know, accelerate that organic growth and drive the kind of long-term results we have historically. And, you know, want to make sure we're driving for investors as we move forward here.

speaker
Jacob Stephon
Analyst, Lake Street Capital Markets

Okay. Helpful. And then maybe just on Arculus, obviously, you know, tracking well ahead of expectations on kind of the net investment level. But maybe, I know you said there's kind of broad-based strength in the programs, but, you know, at the end of the day, is it more on the authenticate side or more on the kind of cold storage side that, you know, customers are paying for currently?

speaker
John Wilk
Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, I'd say it's both. If it leaned one way or the other, probably more towards authentication, but we've seen strength in both.

speaker
Jacob Stephon
Analyst, Lake Street Capital Markets

Okay, got it. I'll hop back in the queue. Thanks. Thanks.

speaker
Conference Operator
Call Moderator

Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Bryant Beaton with Needham. Your line is open.

speaker
John Todaro
Analyst, Needham

Hey, thanks. It's John Todaro from Needham on. Hey, guys, I have two here. First, and I know we've been through this before, but it is very topical for investors. So can you just kind of give us the refresher on spinning off Resolute versus Needham? kind of keeping a team internally to vet and explore M&A opportunities. And then I have a follow-up on the authentication comment.

speaker
John Wilk
Chief Executive Officer

So, John, the mission doesn't change, right, in terms of driving a creative M&A. We strongly believe that this structure delivers more value to shareholders over time as you look at how asset managers are valued in the market, that sort of steady, predictable stream of revenue that they receive is ultimately how we believe the markets will look at Resolute over time as that revenue builds for them. So the missions and outcomes don't change. The structure, we believe, delivers better returns for investors and You know, net-net, sort of after the spin, if you looked at kind of the compost stock price and the kind of value of resolute, you know, net-net, we were up slightly after the spin. You know, obviously, the stock's moving up and down, but we firmly believe it delivers more value for investors over the long term.

speaker
John Todaro
Analyst, Needham

Okay, understood. Thanks for that, John. And then just on the authentication piece, It's interesting that that's growing quite a bit here, actually. But just walk us through a little bit of that sales process. Is it longer-term contracts? When do those conversations begin and ultimately end with the deal being signed? Just would love a little bit more color on that piece.

speaker
John Wilk
Chief Executive Officer

Sure. So that sales cycle follows something somewhat akin to metal payment cards in terms of you know, how we're working through with clients, the different use cases, how that product can, you know, reduce fraud, increase security for them, particularly from medium to high risk transactions. It puts a hardware token in their hand, not having to carry a separate dongle. And so, you know, some medium length sales cycle where you've got sort of the card buyers plus the fraud teams typically engaged. With larger banks, it's been a longer sales cycle, which is why it's taken us a little longer, I think, to ramp that. FinTechs tend to move a little quicker in terms of pace. So we're pleased with the momentum here, John.

speaker
John Todaro
Analyst, Needham

Great. I'll hop back in the queue. Thank you. Thanks.

speaker
Conference Operator
Call Moderator

Please stand by for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Reggie Smith, JPM. Your line is open.

speaker
Reggie Smith
Analyst, JPMorgan

Thank you. Good evening, guys. This is a follow-up on the Resolute holding question from earlier. Just curious, is it thinking that a Resolute will only manage Composecure, or is the plan to eventually bring in third-party capital and or maybe even manage other companies? And I have a few follow-ups. Thank you.

speaker
John Wilk
Chief Executive Officer

Reggie, the primary intention is to drive the value of the Composecure share price. So, Dave and the Resolute team have roughly 600, 700 million of equity capital in CMPO stock, and the goal is to drive that up, period, full stop. That's the intention. Things that we acquire would be acquired by CMPO. That's the model. It doesn't exclude Resolute from ever having another agreement with someone else, but trust me when I say the intention here is to drive the value of CMPO stock. That's how the incentives are aligned. Stock compensation is aligned that way, and that's what we're driving towards.

speaker
Reggie Smith
Analyst, JPMorgan

Perfect. And then I guess, Dave, just thinking about the POPO operating system, and I guess we've never really got a great view into like how the expenses break down within hogs. Is there a way to think about, um, I guess material costs, like if that's the significant thing, is it people, is it process? And I heard you guys talk about investment. Is there any plans to, uh, to maybe do CapEx investment to improve the process? Um, like how should we think about the opportunity there? Thank you.

speaker
Dave Cody
Executive Chairman

Sure. Um, from a CapEx standpoint, It's generally not that expensive. This is more a method of operating and getting everybody in the factory involved in understanding what they're doing, how can they make it better, and ensuring that anything that's not going to pass muster doesn't get passed along, quite honestly. And it's a big process and people focus. And that's where the cultural headset makes a big difference. So this is not the sort of thing where you tell people, hey, Friday, keep doing what you're doing. Monday, come in prepared to do COS. There's an acculturation process, if you will, that you have to go through to get everybody on board and understanding how significant their job is in the scheme of things. So you don't see the benefit of it immediately in terms of big numbers. It takes a few months to really get it rolling. We're a much smaller operation, of course, than what we had to deal with at Honeywell, so it should happen a little faster. But the benefits are huge. And as you start improving yields in particular, that gets you to just a tremendous place. Costs go down, free capacity, free floor space. It's really pretty impressive what you can do. And think of it this way. It's really the Toyota production system that we're modifying for Compo. And, man, I feel very good. The guys are off to a great start. Our manufacturing leaders and engineering leaders working with John are really driving the headset and the cultural change. But this is more of a process, people, and cultural headset more than anything else.

speaker
Reggie Smith
Analyst, JPMorgan

Does that answer your question? It does. It's funny. It reminds me of reading the goal in business school, hearing those terms, floor space and things like that. So that's great. That's good to hear. I guess last question for me, I guess in terms of tariffs, I'm not sure if you guys get your metal cards in the country. Is there anything to think about there as it relates to tariffs and how that may impact your raw material costs?

speaker
John Wilk
Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, thanks for the question, Reggie. Certainly it is something we are keeping a keen eye on. We definitely have materials that come from Europe, some from Asia, very little from China, but it is something we're watching closely. Yes, it could have an impact. I would say, as you think about industrial companies, we're much less at risk to those fluctuations than what you would typically see in an industrial or industrial tech company. That said, it's a very important watch item for us.

speaker
Reggie Smith
Analyst, JPMorgan

Thank you. I'll jump back in the queue. Appreciate it. Thanks, Reggie.

speaker
Conference Operator
Call Moderator

Please stand by for our next question. We have a follow-up question from the line of Moshe Ombuds with TD Cohen. Your line is open.

speaker
Moshe Orenburg
Analyst, TD Cohen

Got to see if you're on mute. Moshe, did you have a follow-up?

speaker
Conference Operator
Call Moderator

All right. We have a follow-up question. Please stand by. We have another follow-up question from the line of Reggie Smith. Your line is open.

speaker
Reggie Smith
Analyst, JPMorgan

Reggie, good to hear from you again. Back again. Listen, I was curious. It may be hard to answer, but is there a way to frame kind of an up-to limit as far as like the size of a deal you may be interested in? Obviously, that's not a commitment, but just trying to understand the scale of the things you may be exploring it. if possible. Thank you.

speaker
John Wilk
Chief Executive Officer

So, I'm happy to take it, and then if Dave wants to follow, he can. But, Reggie, I think we said before, but I'm pretty sure we will look at things, you know, small, medium, and large. And I know that's not answering your question, but we're not limited to sort of small or small to medium. You know, we will look at a pretty broad spectrum of things. There are a set of criteria that Dave looks at for every acquisition, ours included. It's got to hit those, and it's got to be a value and a price that we think can deliver exceptional return for our investors. That's the critical criteria for us right now.

speaker
Dave Cody
Executive Chairman

Yeah, and if I could just add to John's point, this is all going to come down to where can we add value with the operating tools that we bring, so you're not going to see us do something that you look at and go, I don't understand how they can add value here. It'll make sense. But just to reinforce something John said earlier, Tom, me, the rest of the acquisition team, our equity is in compo, not in resolute. So we are heavily incentivized to make sure that compo performs really well. and that the stock performs well for our share owners. So that's where our focus is.

speaker
Moshe Orenburg
Analyst, TD Cohen

Thank you.

speaker
Conference Operator
Call Moderator

Will you stand by for our next question? We have a follow-up from the line of Moshe Orenberg with TD Cohen. Your line is open.

speaker
Moshe Orenburg
Analyst, TD Cohen

Great. Sorry about that before. I couldn't figure out on this new phone how to unmute. And Dave, thanks for that last comment. That actually is very helpful. The question is just kind of a technical one. Could you just, I got a couple of people kind of emailing in and asking, what exactly does that pro forma guidance mean with respect to the, you know, to the, you know, the resolute payments? Does it mean as if it were in effect for the entire year or in effect from some other date? Like, you know, could you just say what that means?

speaker
John Wilk
Chief Executive Officer

So, Moshe, the guide is that the business, right, if you want to look at it with the Resolute Management Fee last year on a pro forma basis and this year, if you want to look at it without the business, is expected to grow mid-single digits.

speaker
Stephen Fetter
General Counsel and Corporate Secretary

Right.

speaker
Moshe Orenburg
Analyst, TD Cohen

And I think just as a follow-up to that, you had said that the adjusted EBITDA was positive in the fourth quarter related to Arculus by $3.5 million, right? Yes. So if that had been zero or negative for the rest of the year, I guess, shouldn't that alone, if that continues, be a big driver of adjusted EBITDA growth into 2025?

speaker
John Wilk
Chief Executive Officer

We are also making investments, Moshe, and I talked about this in terms of the investments we're making in engineering talent, sales talent. Somebody asked about CapEx to essentially get to where we want to get to around the operations and the efficiency, and it's sort of taking those things into account.

speaker
Moshe Orenburg
Analyst, TD Cohen

Okay. All right. Thanks very much.

speaker
Conference Operator
Call Moderator

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, I'm sure no further questions in the queue. And that concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.

Disclaimer

This conference call transcript was computer generated and almost certianly contains errors. This transcript is provided for information purposes only.EarningsCall, LLC makes no representation about the accuracy of the aforementioned transcript, and you are cautioned not to place undue reliance on the information provided by the transcript.

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