3/25/2026

speaker
Operator

Good day, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by and welcome to the Health in Tech fourth quarter and full year of 2025 earnings conference call. Currently, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Later, we will conduct a question and answer session and instructions will follow at that time. As a reminder, we are recording today's call. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. Now, I will turn the call over to Lori Babcock, Chief of Staff for the company. Ms. Babcock, please proceed.

speaker
Lori Babcock
Chief of Staff

Lori Babcock Thank you, Operator, and hello, everyone. Welcome to Health and Tech's fourth quarter and full year of 2025 Earnings Conference Call. Joining us today are Mr. Tim Johnson, Chief Executive Officer, and Ms. Julia Chin. Chief Financial Officer. Full details of our results can be found in our earnings press release and in our related form 10-K filed with the SEC. These documents will be available on our investor relations website at healthandtech.investorroom.com. As a reminder, today's call is being recorded and a replay will be available on our IR website as well. Before we continue, Please note that today's discussion includes forward-looking statements made pursuant to the safe harbor provisions of the U.S. Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These statements are based on information available as of today and involve risks, uncertainties, and assumptions that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied including those discussed in our annual report on Form 10-K for the period ended December 31, 2025, filed with the SEC. Please review the forward-looking and cautionary statement section at the end of our earnings release for various factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from forward-looking statements made today during our call. Except as expressly required by federal securities laws, we undertake no obligation to update and expressly disclaim the obligation to update these forward-looking statements to reflect events or circumstances after the date of this call or to reflect new information or the occurrence of unanticipated events. We may also refer to certain financial measures not in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles such as adjusted EBITDA for comparison purposes only. Our GAAP results and reconciliations of GAAP to non-GAAP measures can be found in our earnings press release. With that, I will now turn the call over to our CEO, Mr. Johnson.

speaker
Tim Johnson
Chief Executive Officer

Thank you, Laurie, and good afternoon, everyone. We appreciate you joining us today. 2025 was a pivotal year for health and tech. It marked our first year as a public company. But more importantly, it was a year in which we demonstrated that our AI-enabled underwriting marketplace, distribution-led growth model, and technology platform can scale within a large, underpenetrated, self-funded health insurance market. For the full year 2025, revenue increased 71% to $33.3 million, reflecting strong execution across our core growth drivers. When we look at what drove the this performance, three factors stand out. Distribution expansion, platform advancement, and program innovation. First, distribution. Our business scales through distribution, with brokers and TPA serving as the primary channel through which employers access self-funded health plans. As a result, the breadth and productivity of our distribution network are directly correlated with our growth trajectory. In 2025, we expanded our network to 858 brokers, TPAs, and agency partners representing a 34% year-over-year increase. Importantly, we believe we remain at a very early stage of market penetration. There are approximately 1.1 million insurance brokers in the United States, and even over 800 distribution partners in our platform, our penetration remains well below 1 tenth of 1%. Similarly, within an estimated $0.9 trillion of self-funded healthcare market, our current scale represents only a fraction of the total addressable opportunity. The key takeaway is that while we deliver strong growth in 2025, we believe that the long-term runway for expansion remains substantial, particularly as we continue to scale distribution and increase engagement across our partner network. Second, platform development. A core inefficiency in this industry is that underwriting remains highly manual, time-intensive, and difficult to scale, particularly in a large employer segment. In 2025, we expanded our enhanced do-it-yourself benefit systems, or EDEBs, to support employers with over 100 employees, extending our capabilities beyond the small group market where we initially established strong product market fit. This is a meaningful step up market larger group and underwriting is characterized by long sales cycles fragmented workflows and significant operational friction. Our platform addresses the challenges by compressing underwriting timelines for larger employers with approximately three months. To roughly two weeks, which enhances broker productivity improves the client experience and increases placement efficiency. We believe the speed and automation represent a durable competitive advantage, particularly as the market increasingly demands faster data-driven decision-making. Before I move on, I want to address one of the most important questions we hear from investors. What is our AI advantage and why is it not easily replicable? The short answer is that our advantage is not just that AI model itself, It is the combination of proprietary data and integrated workflow and distribution. On data, we have been applying AI within our platform since 2021, well before AI became a headline thing. Because we operate within employer-sponsored insurance, we have built a HIPAA-governed data set tied directly to real underwriting activity and plan design structures, rather than relying on generic or publicly available healthcare data. As employer groups renew over time, we continuously incorporate new cohorts and real-world outcomes, which allows our models to improve through ongoing feedback loops embedded in actual production environments. On workflow, many solutions in the market focus on narrow point applications of AI. For example, automating a single administrative function or a discrete vendor process. While those tools can provide incremental efficiency, they do not address the broader structural inefficiencies in the system. What we have built is a fully integrated platform that connects underwriting, plan design, stop loss, administration, and vendor coordination in a single workflow. This enables brokers to move from quotes to bindable, execution-ready solution significantly faster while reducing fragmentation for employers. In other words, our AI is most valuable because it is embedded within an operating marketplace, not deployed as a standalone tool. On distribution, technology alone is not sufficient. Distribution is critical. We have established growing network of brokers, TPAs, and carrier integrations actively using the platform, and that real-world uses drives continuous data generation, improves model performance, increases platform stickiness over time. As we scale, The data becomes richer, the workflow becomes more efficient, and the competitive advantage compounds. Third, program development. We continue to advance our three-year rate stabilization program, which is designed to address one of the most persistent challenges in the employer-sponsored healthcare space. Pricing volatility. Employers are increasingly focused on predictability while brokers are seeking solutions to improve retention and simplify long-term planning. Our program is structured to provide greater pricing stability over a multi-year period, supported by a fixed remittance framework and stop-loss protection. Strategically, we believe this offering can deepen client relationships, improve retention, and support expansion into larger employer segments, where budgeting stability is a critical decision factor. Now let's talk about 2026 strategic priorities and outlets. As we move into 2026, our priorities remain focused on scaling the platform and accelerating adoption. First, we will continue to expand our distribution footprint. Second, we're continuing to invest in platform development and AI capabilities with the goal of evolving into a fully integrated marketplace that extends beyond underwriting to include claims administration, cost containment solutions, and broader plan management capabilities. In January, 2026, we enhanced the platform to offer more than 100 pre-configured customized stop-loss programs, translating complex underwriting and plan design into a scalable, repeatable framework. This drives shorter sales cycles, improved conversion visibility, and greater scalability while maintaining flexibility over the employer-specific needs. We are providing full-year 2026 revenue guidance of 45 to 50 million, representing approximately 35% to 50% year-over-year growth. Our confidence is supported by our ability to compress time to revenue, enabling new features to scale within one to two quarters compared to 12 to 24 months in traditional insurance environments. We are also strengthening our technology foundation through our partnerships with CICLIM, an AWS advanced tier service provider. We are building more integrated AI-driven platforms. And with that, I'll turn it over to Julia Chen, our CFO.

speaker
Julia Chin
Chief Financial Officer

Thanks, Tim. Good afternoon, everybody. I appreciate you joining us today. I will work through our fourth quarter and the four-year 2025 financial performance. Then we'll provide additional context around our operating model, margin profile, capital allocation priority, and ongoing product investments. Before continue to the number, I want to briefly address seasonality and the timing dynamics. Employer decision cycles, particularly around the renewers, do not always align cleanly with the calendar quarter, which can create some variance in the quarter's results. As such, we believe year-over-year performance is the more meaningful way to evaluate the business rather than sequentially. So on that basis, our trend remains strong throughout 2025. Importantly, our revenue model is contractually driven and recognized over a 12-month policy period, which supports forward-looking revenue visibility and an increased recurring revenue profile. Turning to our revenue now. For the full year 2025, the total revenue increased 71% year-over-year to $33.3 million. In the fourth quarter, the revenue increased 53% to $7.5 million. Least performance reflects continued adoption of our AI-enabled underwriting marketplace, supported by expansion in both distribution and enrolled employees. Our distribution network grew to 885 brokers, TPAs, and agencies, increased 34% year-over-year. Enrolling employees increased to 22,515, increased 23% year-over-year. As more partners onboarded to the platform, we are seeing increased coding activity, higher bandwidth ratio, and improved conversion efficiency. reinforcing the scalability of our model. As Tim mentioned, we are providing full-year 2026 revenue guidance of $45 million to $50 million, that representing about 35% to 50% growth year-over-year. This is supported by the visibility and how our recurring revenue flows through from the prior year and the remaining of the year, as same as the strong distribution and full deployment of our platform capability. When we look at the profitability, we continue to demonstrate operating leverage as the business scaled. Adjusted EBITDA for the four year was 4.1 million, which is about 12.3% of the revenue, increased 81% year over year. Net income, adjusted EBITDA most comparable gap measure for the four year was 1.2 million, representing about 4% of the revenue, increased 91% year over year. For the first quarter, adjusted EBITDA was 0.3 million compared to 0.5 million of the prior year. Net income for the first quarter was negative 0.3 million compared with negative 0.1 million of the prior year. Again, our gap result and the reconciliation of the gap to non-gap measurement can be found in our earnings release. The first quarter reflects planned reinvestment in going-to-market initiatives, broker engagement, program development along with the peak enrollment activity, as well as the investment supporting new product launches. Four-year pre-tax income was $1.7 million. Fourth quarter pre-tax loss was $0.4 million. Reflect the timing of the investment. Turning to the operating expenses. We continue to drive improved operating efficiency while maintaining disciplined investment in-growth initiative. Total operating expenses were $19.4 million for the full year, representing 58% of the revenue, a 16% increase year-over-year. In the fourth quarter, operating expenses was $4.3 million, 57% of the revenue. Breaking all these down, for the full year, sales and the marketing expenses was $4.2 million, about 13% of the revenue, reflecting our efficiency in the distribution-led go-to-market strategy. General and the main expenses was $13.7 million, 41% of the revenue in pro-year, over-year as we scale. Research and the development investment, including $3.2 million in the CapEx, capitalized software development, and $1.6 million expenses, representing approximately 5% of the revenue as we expense. Our R&D investment are focused on the platform expansion, underwriting automation, and scalability across the marketplace ecosystem. As we think about the growth beyond 2025, we are continuing to increase the high value capability into our existing platform. We plan to initiate the beta testing of a new data-driven solution that integrates physiological and plans data to generate actionable value insights. We believe these represent a very meaningful step forward in enhancing decision making across underwriting and the plan management. More broadly, these initiatives reflect our strategy of building additional value added service on top of already commercialized scalable platform. which we expect to support the durability of the growth and increase operating leverage even further. AI remains a core investment initiative alongside our other programs. We believe that applying AI within a regulator employer-sponsored insurance environment can materially improve the speed, consistency, and decision quality across both underwriting and member-facing workflows. We will continue investing in AI-driven automation and underwriting support. We are maintaining appropriate human oversight where it matters most. For financial perspectives, when these investments are directly aligned with our model, they support a faster adoption, higher retention, improved efficiency, and ultimately great operating leverage as we scale. Turning to the cash flow and the balance sheet. For the full year, 25, we generated 3.1 million of positive operating cash flow. Accounts receivable day reduced to 14 days in 25 from already very efficient 29 days in 24. Demonstrate the probability and efficiency of cash collection in our business model. We invest 3.2 million in platform development, the software part, and through our generated the positive cash flow from the operations, and ending the year with $7.7 million in cash and cash equivalent. With that, I now turn back to the operator for Q&A.

speaker
Operator

Thank you. We will now begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, you may press star, then 1 on your touch-tone phone. If you are using a speaker phone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys. If at any time your question has been addressed and you would like to withdraw your question, please press star and then two. At this time, we will pause momentarily to assemble our roster. And the first question will come from Alan Klee with Maxim Group. Please go ahead.

speaker
Alan Klee
Analyst, Maxim Group

Yes, hi. Good quarter. I wanted to start with your larger employer offering, which you've rolled out. Could you give us kind of the feedback you've gotten and kind of what you're hearing from your partners that are involved in selling it? Thank you.

speaker
Julia Chin
Chief Financial Officer

Sure, Alan. I can take that. The team can talk about the business part. And I can talk about the financials. So we announced the entry to the large employee space last year. And the financials, it's a very fresh financials in 25 is reported because that is starting on the Q3 and officially launched in September. And you will see more benefits in 2026. So Tim can answer business-related questions.

speaker
Tim Johnson
Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, as Julie said, the sales cycle on those are pretty long. So we're just now really starting to pick up some sales through it, the speed through it. We have a product launch coming up at the end of next month where it really helps speed the process up for the large groups. Right now we just agreed to underwrite large groups, bring them in to make sure that we had a really good process. And then the system that we've built is coming out next month. We've tested it a lot with a lot of brokers and internally, and the speed with which it's performing is really helpful for anybody that uses it.

speaker
Alan Klee
Analyst, Maxim Group

Okay, thank you. And then for the three-year rate stabilization offering, which is extremely valuable in today's market, what is the feedback? You're in beta right now, so... Anything you can say about the feedback and how you're thinking about potential interest and when that interest, I know you said second half, but any thoughts of how that might, how you think about the inflection of how that might ramp?

speaker
Tim Johnson
Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, it's really an attention grabber for government entities, municipalities, these entities that rely on budgeting to heavily so they they have to understand through a tax base you know what they got a budget for so when you can do that for three years there are a lot of cities states governments counties they're all interested in looking at it and we're we're right now we're just starting to put together some information so we can gather some of their submission data start to put some programs together for them make making sure that it looks right and fine-tune it so There's a lot of attention around it. Seriously, we just got it started a month, month and a half ago, and where we could go out and talk about it with our partner, our insurance carrier that was putting it up and we're working with. So there's a lot of attention around it, but you're right. We haven't really started the quoting process yet where we've got so much going on that we can put some business on the books.

speaker
Julia Chin
Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, so Alan, that is exactly what we said before. We anticipate it's going to go well, the beta test, a lot of traction. Should be officially launched, announced with all the partner involved second half of the year. I think it's pretty still on track. We try to see whether we can do a Q3 third quarter. Hopefully the end of second quarter and the beginning of third quarter, this is something we're looking at.

speaker
Alan Klee
Analyst, Maxim Group

Maybe just following up on my first two questions. What are your thoughts in terms of the amount of renewables you think will be available for both the large employer and the three-year rate stabilization? Do you think that most of it will come more at the end of 26 when plans start? or do you think that there's a good opportunity kind of in the second half of 26?

speaker
Julia Chin
Chief Financial Officer

So Alan, today we do not in the large group business. So most of our business is a small, medium-sized group. We only started last year, September. And when we have functionality going on and then we start to pick up some pace this year, So we don't really have a renewer from any prior year business book, but we can see we gain the market share from other places. So we get a new customer. Those will be all new customers.

speaker
Alan Klee
Analyst, Maxim Group

Yeah, but what I meant is that plans, like if most plans renew like in January, does that mean that there won't be a lot that, will be available that you can sell to.

speaker
Tim Johnson
Chief Executive Officer

Yes, you're correct. So July 1 and January 1 are the, especially for municipalities on their effective dates, they start on July and January. So again, we're probably not going to get a lot of business on July with the municipalities in that. We'll pick up some other clients. But January is clearly going to be the biggest effective date for us on that.

speaker
Alan Klee
Analyst, Maxim Group

Okay, that's great. Oh, it's one more, then I'll get back in the queue. You mentioned you initiate beta testing of physiological data and claims data to get insights. Could you just expand into about that a little more?

speaker
Julia Chin
Chief Financial Officer

Yes. Physiologic data is when people wear the devices to track their physiological information, the heart rate, and the blood pressure, or at least. And then we have, as a cleanse data, a lot of associates with individuals' health information. So when we get the data, hopefully it can produce insights. We just get the start and the beta test for this year. That is something the product will watch for. It can be very interesting. On data part, it really will help the user to get more additional insights of the correlation, their health condition versus their medical condition. So we just get the beta test, and we will share with the market the due cost.

speaker
Operator

Thank you so much. Again, if you have a question, please press star and then 1. The next question will come from M. Marin with a Zax. Please go ahead.

speaker
M. Marin
Analyst, Zacks Investment Research

Thank you. So, I'm wondering, you know, you're talking a little bit about, you know, your entrance now into the large organizations spectrum of sales. And the sales cycle, as you said, is long. Do you expect that there will be any difference versus smaller organizations in terms of stickiness or retention? Or from what you know about the overall industry, do you think it will be pretty much comparable to what you've already experienced in your business?

speaker
Tim Johnson
Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, I think that the stickiness will come because the ease of use of the system, the tool, DIBS, it is extremely easy and efficient. The brokers get, it's easier for a broker to provide a submission to an underwriter through the system. The system uses a lot of AI technology to organize all of that and parses the data into an organized fashion for the underwriter. It's a layup for the underwriter to, when they eventually comes out the other end of the system, to underwrite, to do their job, which is all they want to do. So once we can show that the turnaround time on one, getting the information in, understanding the information, and then getting a proposal back, we're really trying to reduce that timeframe significantly. And if you're in this business, you know that a lot of times it takes a long time for various reasons, but the system that we have built, we really think we can dramatically, I say we're gonna easily cut it in half, if not more.

speaker
M. Marin
Analyst, Zacks Investment Research

Okay, and so I know you, you know, it's very, very early in the process because you just really completed the beta testing not that long ago. But are you surprised at the level of interest or potential interest that you were, you know, expecting or seeing in, you know, your pipeline amongst that sector of the overall customer base?

speaker
Tim Johnson
Chief Executive Officer

Yeah. We were just talking about that earlier today, in fact. The way that we have positioned ourselves and the people that we are already talking to about it, just trying to get feedback and get through all the beta. Internally, my underwriter can now look at and quote up to 20 groups in a week. She used to be able to do that in a month, and now she does it in a week. And just conversations like that around other people in that space, in the underwriting space, they're very excited to see it and test it out. Yeah, we hope it's going to be a big splash.

speaker
M. Marin
Analyst, Zacks Investment Research

Okay. And switching gears a little bit, I think over the past several quarters you've announced a number of different partnerships or business affiliations to expand the services you can offer or expand distribution. Do you have an ongoing pipeline of other potential affiliations that you're looking at and considering in order to further expand your service offerings?

speaker
Tim Johnson
Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, the tool itself has really expanded who we traditionally thought our market was. So now, besides just brokers and TPAs using the system to quote groups, we're looking at other industries or other vendors within our industry that want to use the tool because it makes their job even easier. you know, we're all in this business and we designed the product to help us because we underwrite, we do all these things. But it's expanding beyond just us to where other people want to use the tool. And that kind of goes back to my other answer on the other question you asked. But yeah, it's expanding a lot.

speaker
Julia Chin
Chief Financial Officer

Yeah, that is multiple. We looked at this as multiple different lag to grow for the company. So in terms of self-distribution, Just reminding everybody, there's 1.1 million of the sales agents in the country, and we only scratched the surface. So whatever works, we'll continue to build a high-function sales team, continue to acquire broker, provide education. One part of we are entering into the large group of space will help us to get the largest brokerage house, because The more product offer, the more stickiness, people more inclined to deal with one system to use it. So this is a part of the strategy for us to offer more service and try to get more broker on board. We don't have some particular list because now consider our entire universe is 1.1 million and there is a particular we have particular things we need to think about and where our high functional sales person have the most of the relationships that ways. Then we would go down the list of the rest of in the country, really don't have particular things. And additionally, the new functionality we're building, we're surprisingly to see it can be offered as additional sales, generate more revenue as the capability or needed by other user as well.

speaker
M. Marin
Analyst, Zacks Investment Research

Mm-hmm. which would also further enhance your operating leverage, you think?

speaker
Julia Chin
Chief Financial Officer

Yes, definitely. And look, when we start that, I often say we are the Amazon selling the bookstore and sell the book set or bookstore. And then we realize people really like to put the store online. So we're like, okay, now, well, a lot of functionality we're developing for our own use, internal use, because we are part of the customer zero using the functionality, deal with the menu process, make automation, make that easier, simpler, use AI. And then we realize a lot of companies like ours on the market, they also suffer from the menu process. Then we can offer that as the service, additional service.

speaker
M. Marin
Analyst, Zacks Investment Research

Okay, thanks so much. Thanks for taking my questions.

speaker
Operator

The next question is a follow-up from Alan Klee of Maxim Group. Please go ahead.

speaker
Alan Klee
Analyst, Maxim Group

Yes, hi. You talked about how you want to expand to roll out cost containment and claims paying. Is the business model here that kind of what you said of the Amazon, like you're the store and these are the different things that get added and you would take like a fee or a percent of the, how would, have you envisioned like but you're partnering with other firms, or how do you envision how you get paid on it?

speaker
Julia Chin
Chief Financial Officer

So, Alan, we are building, we are the marketplace. So today the marketplace does two things, create self-funded product, self-funded program, and put program together, and also does the underwriting and the bundle together through AI process. in the near future, and the marketplace function expanded, and then we will offer that as a service for other carrier, other MGU, other people who want to come to the marketplace, not just purchase the product. They also want to use the functionality doing their underwriting. They want to create their customized product. So these are the things we're thinking about, which we already get quite a lot of traction is not, have not launched currently, has not launched this year, has not in the business model last year, but with more and more attractions, we think we will make that available in very near future. We have not thought about the pricing because there are so many different pricing we can charge to. We can have a set pricing, we can have a different feature, different pricing. There are so many ways people willing to pay, different functionality. So since this has not been launched and we have not finalized the pricing, we have a lot of ideas through the conversation with potential customers.

speaker
Alan Klee
Analyst, Maxim Group

Okay. You announced a partnership on the prescription side, I think. Well, could you talk about what that can do for your offering? What I'm referring to is vertical art administrators.

speaker
Tim Johnson
Chief Executive Officer

Oh, yes. They're a TPA. They just happen to be owned by a PBM. So it's just another distribution source for us.

speaker
Lori Babcock
Chief of Staff

Yeah.

speaker
Alan Klee
Analyst, Maxim Group

Okay, so on the prescription side, that's not an area of focus right now, I assume, right?

speaker
Tim Johnson
Chief Executive Officer

Not really. I mean, we're going to do what we can to manage drug costs, but as you recently saw, the government's stepping in to try to make some corrections, so it's kind of in flux right now. We don't want to commit to anything and then have something taken away from us, so we're just kind of going to sit back and watch what happens for a while.

speaker
Alan Klee
Analyst, Maxim Group

Okay, that makes sense. Any feedback on the conference you held in Davos and any relationships that you got out of it or just thoughts on how it went?

speaker
Tim Johnson
Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, I thought it went great. We met a lot of good people. Those relationships are still fruitioning. We're trying to figure out how do we take advantage of all of them. Yeah, we got a lot of good attention from that. A lot of people still talking about it, in fact.

speaker
Alan Klee
Analyst, Maxim Group

Okay. And maybe lastly, on the AI side, just in terms of kind of how you're looking to apply it in 26, what would you say the biggest initiatives are, will be?

speaker
Tim Johnson
Chief Executive Officer

the biggest initiatives for AI in 26. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be continually improving our own processes. So as we, like I said, we're really the proof of concept for a lot of these things. And we test it before we, you know, take it out. But our system continually needs improvement. We were talking about the claims. I want to clarify. Those are the stop loss claims. Those are not first dollar TPA claims that we're looking at. We're looking at how MGU's intake claims how can AI use to make that more efficient? Because it's a very manual process. So everything we touch, we're looking at applying AI to it to see if we can solve the issue by speeding it up or eliminating intervention by having people get in the middle of it. There's all sorts of different ways that we're looking at AI, but it's improving that entire process of getting information, how you get it, when you get it, what you do with it, where it goes, where it's stored, and how fast can I get access to it.

speaker
Alan Klee
Analyst, Maxim Group

Okay, great. Thank you so much.

speaker
Tim Johnson
Chief Executive Officer

Thanks, Alan.

speaker
Operator

Thank you. Seeing no more questions in the queue, let me turn the call back to Mr. Johnson for closing remarks.

speaker
Tim Johnson
Chief Executive Officer

Okay. Thank you, operator, and I thank all of you. I appreciate everyone joining the call today. If anyone has any follow-up questions, please do not hesitate to reach out to us. We appreciate your interest and look forward to keeping dialogue open. Thanks, everyone.

speaker
Operator

Thank you all again. This concludes the call. You may now disconnect.

Disclaimer

This conference call transcript was computer generated and almost certianly contains errors. This transcript is provided for information purposes only.EarningsCall, LLC makes no representation about the accuracy of the aforementioned transcript, and you are cautioned not to place undue reliance on the information provided by the transcript.

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