Lifetime Brands, Inc.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Lifetime Brands fourth quarter 2025 earnings conference call. This time, I would like to inform all participants that their lines would be in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer portion of the call. If you would like to ask a question during this time, please press star and 1 on your touchtone telephones. Please also note today's event is being recorded. At this time, I'd like to introduce our host for today's conference, Jamie Kirchhen. Mr. Kirchhen, you may go ahead.

Good morning, and thank you for joining Lifetime Brands' fourth quarter 2025 earnings call. With us today from management are Rob Tang, Chief Executive Officer, and Larry Winokur, Chief Financial Officer. Before we begin the call, I'd like to remind you that our remarks this morning may contain forward-looking statements that relate to the future of the company. And these statements are intended to qualify for the safe harbor protection from liability established by the Private Security Litigation Reform Act. Any such statements are not guarantees of future performance and factors that could influence our results are highlighted in our earnings release. And other factors are contained in our filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Such statements are based upon information available to the company as of the date hereof and are subject to change for future development. Acceptance required by law of the company does not undertake any obligation to update such statements Our remarks this morning and in our earnings release also contain non-GAAP financial measures within the meaning of Regulation G promulgated by the Securities and Exchange Commission. Included in such release is a reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures with the comparable financial measures calculated in accordance with GAAP. With that introduction, I'd like to turn the call over to Rob Kang. Please go ahead, Rob.

Thank you. Good morning.

A year ago, we entered 2025. knowing it would be a challenging year. What we did not fully anticipate was just how dynamic the external environment would become. The tariff escalations, retail customer disruption, consumers' reactions, the operational demands were all significant. And yet, when I look at where we stand today, I'm proud of how our team performed and where we finished the year. Let me walk you through the key dynamics that shaped both the fourth quarter and the full year and the decisions we made, including those that carried short-term costs and why they were right for our business. Overall, what drove Lifetime's 2025 performance was the macro environment, largely shaped by U.S. tariff actions and the market's reaction to them. The biggest impact of this was the second quarter implementation of 145% tariffs on goods sourced from China following the Liberation Day tariffs implemented on many countries throughout the globe. This resulted in wide-scale disruption and in some cases cancellation of orders for our products, both by our customers and internally by Lifetime. as the immediacy of the implementation would have resulted in selling products at a loss. As the year progressed and some stability was introduced on tariff rates, Lifetime was a first mover in implementing price increases across all our channels to offset the tariff cost. While this initially hurt our volumes as we were selling our products at a higher price than most of our competition, the market eventually caught up and pricing parity was restored. However, Lifetime benefited from enhanced profitability due to the price increases, which led to improved performance relative to the overall market and many of our peers. In particular, we note that bottom line results showed a positive year-over-year growth by the fourth quarter of 2025. Contributing to this performance was our pricing strategy a comprehensive cost efficiency and reduction program, and improved results in our international business. First, as we told you earlier in the year, the impact of the 145% tariffs on China's source product was significant. It negatively impacted shipments in the second quarter and flowed into disruption in the third. We specifically called out that some of that deferred volume would come back in 2025 with a fuller normalization expected in 2026. As you can see, we benefited by the current quarter with some resumption in shipment levels from missed second quarter shipments, particularly in tabletop and kitchenware. The most visible example is Costco, our largest year-over-year decline in any single customer through September. They pulled back sharply on tabletop programs as tariffs uncertainty peaked. But as conditions stabilized, a portion of those programs shipped in the fourth quarter, and we performed very well with Costco in Q4. That recovery was a meaningful contributor to our strong finish. The second major factor driving performance was Lifetime's decision to move first on pricing to offset tariff cuts. We did not wait to see what the market would do. We built a detailed plan with each of our customers, communicating the rationale clearly, and implementing the increases. As I mentioned above, there were short-term consequences. In the third quarter, we were priced higher than the market, and that created some volume headwinds. A portion of our shelf performance suffered while competitors had not yet moved. But by the fourth quarter, the market had largely caught up. Pricing parity had returned across all our categories. And because we had been selling at higher prices earlier than most, we captured better margins during that window. If you look at our results, particularly the bottom line, you can see that clearly. We had a modest outperformance on the top line, but we significantly exceeded expectations on the bottom line. Our first mover pricing decision was a key contributor to that outcome.

The third element of our Q4 performance was cost discipline.

Variable costs naturally flex with volume, but we also took deliberate action on our cost structure throughout the year. We streamlined infrastructure, And SG&A came in at 38 million in Q4, down 12% versus the prior year quarter. That's a meaningful reduction, and it reflects real work done on the cost base. Combined, these three factors drove a strong quarter and finish to the year. The fourth quarter came in ahead of expectations, and I think the results speak to the strategy working. Revenue was modestly below prior year, which we anticipated, but margins expanded and the bottom line was strong.

Larry will take you through the detail in a moment.

While the year was challenging due to tariffs, we took the decisive actions I've discussed to mitigate their effects. Given the circumstances, we performed well, as evidenced by our results. In the fourth quarter, adjusted income from operations, was up over 30% from the prior year quarter, and full year adjusted EBITDA was over $50 million, despite a 5% decline in net sales. We continue to experience positives from our investment in new product development. The Dolly brand grew to approximately $18 million for the year, an increase of over 150%, a great reflection on where the strategy is gaining traction. We are encouraged by the trajectory heading into 2026. Our international segment continued to demonstrate resilience. For the full year, international sales came in at 56.7 million, up 1.7% as reported. On a constant currency basis, international was down modestly at 1.7%, a solid result given the backdrop, particularly as we gained share in national accounts in light of a continued decline in independent shops, which historically have been the core of the European customer base. On Project Concord, our international restructuring initiative, we made continued progress throughout the year and the financial benefits are flowing through. That said, I wanna be transparent. The final phase of Concord implementation was delayed modestly due to legal and structural constraints that took longer than anticipated to work through. We expect those to be fully resolved and implemented in the first half of 2026. The direction here remains clear, and we remain committed to completing Concord and realizing the full benefits of the program. As announced early last year, we also took deliberate action on our distribution infrastructure. announcing the relocation of our East Coast Distribution Center to Hagerstown, Maryland. The facility will span approximately one million square feet, adding 327,000 square feet of incremental capacity over our current New Jersey facility, which it will replace, and is expected to commence operations in the second quarter of 2026. This move is consistent with how we approach the business, identifying where we can drive long-term efficiency and positioning Lifetime's operations to support our multi-year growth initiatives, while significantly containing Lifetime's future distribution expenses. As we enter 2026, we do so with momentum, a leaner cost structure, and a clearer sense of where the opportunities are. On guidance, consistent with our historical cadence, we intend to provide detailed full year 2026 guidance in conjunction with our first quarter results in mid-May. At that point, we will have a clearer line of sight into the year and can speak to it with specificity you deserve. What I can tell you now is that recovering sustainable top line growth is the priority. We have done the work on the cost base. and proven we can protect margins. Now the focus shifts to driving volume through our existing customer relationships, through the brands and product lines that are gaining traction, and through the pipeline of strategic activity that we continue to develop. Finally, I want to acknowledge that this type of year, navigating real disruption while delivering results that exceeded where we started, does not happen without an exceptional team. I'm grateful for everyone at Lifetime who stayed focused, executed under pressure, and kept our commitments to customers and shareholders alike. With that, I'll turn the call over to Larry to review the financials in more detail.

Thanks, Rob. As we reported this morning, net income for the fourth quarter of 2025 was $18.2 million, or 83 cents per diluted share. compared to 8.9 million or 41 cents per diluted share in the fourth quarter of 24. Adjusted net income was 23 million for the fourth quarter or $1.05 per diluted share as compared to 12 million or 55 cents per diluted share in 24. Income from operations was 20 million for the fourth quarter of 25 as compared to 15.5 million in 24. And adjusted income from operations for the fourth quarter 25 was 26.4 million compared to 20.2 million in 2024. Adjusted EBITDA for the full year, 25 was 50.8 million. Adjusted net income, adjusted income from operations and adjusted EBITDA are non-GAAP measures, which are reconciled to our GAAP financial measures in the earnings release. The following comments are for the fourth quarter of 2025 and 24, unless stated otherwise. Consolidated sales decreased 5.2% to $204.1 million. U.S. segment sales decreased 5.5% to $185.3 million. Sales were favorably impacted by the increase in selling prices to mitigate the impact of higher tariffs on foreign-sourced products. However, retailers' buying disruption and consumers' dampened spending reaction to the high-tariff environment dampened demand in our industry. Within the segment, product lines decreases were in kitchenware and home solutions, partially offset by an increase in tableware. International segment sales decreased 2.3% to 18.8 million, and excluding the impact of foreign exchange translation, the decrease was 1.4 million, or 6.8%. The decrease came from the UK e-commerce. Gross margin increased to 38.6%, from 37.7%. U.S. segment gross margin increased to 38.8 and 37.6. The improvement was driven by lower ocean freight rates, some favorable product mix, and the timing of inventory costs recognized under FIFO inventory accounting. These factors more than offset the adverse effects of tariffs in the current quarter. For international, gross margin decreased to 36.8 from 38.6, driven by higher customer support spending in the current period. U.S. segment distribution expenses as a percent of goods shipped from its warehouses was 8.3% versus 9.1%. The decrease was attributable to improved labor management efficiencies, largely resulting from the fully implemented new warehouse management system in our West Coast facility and the effect of higher tariff-induced selling prices without a commensurate increase in expenses. International segment distribution expenses as a percentage of goods shipped from its warehouses was 19.8% versus 18.1. The increase is due to higher sales to prepaid freight customers and the expansion of sales into the Asia Pacific region. Selling general and administrative expenses decreased by 12%, 38 million. U.S. segment expenses decreased by 3.2 million to 29.6. As a percentage of net sales, the expense decreased to 16% from 16.7. The decrease was driven by lower employee expenses, including incentive compensation. International SG&A decreased 1.5 million to 3.1 million. As a percentage of net sales, the expense decreased to 16.7% versus 24.2% due to lower employee and advertising expenses, as well as a foreign currency transaction gains. An allocated corporate expense decreased $500,000 to $5.2 million due to lower employee expenses, also including incentive compensation partially offset by higher professional fees. Interest expense decreased by 600,000 due to lower average borrowings and lower interest rates on our variable rate debt. For income taxes, the benefit is primarily driven by the release, excuse me, the benefit rate is primarily driven by the release of a valuation allowance against deferred tax assets recorded in the second quarter. And looking at our debt liquidity, our balance sheet continues to be strong, notwithstanding the higher working capital needs that resulted from tariffs. At year end, our liquidity was 76.6 million, which includes cash plus availability under our credit facility and receivable purchase agreement. And that would trust the EBITDA to net that ratio at year end was 3.9 times. Lastly, as Rob discussed, the relocation of our East Coast Distribution Center is expected to begin operating in the second quarter. And I'll add that the costs That is, exiting the New Jersey facility and starting up the Maryland facility, including capital expenditures, are expected to be at or below our forecast. This concludes our prepared comments. Operator, please open the line for questions.

Thank you. We will now begin to conduct our question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star and 1 on your telephone keypads. Confirmation tone will indicate that your line is in the question queue. You may press star and two if you'd like to remove your question from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star keys to ensure the best sound quality.

One moment while we poll for questions. And our first question today comes from Matt Caranda from Roth Capital.

Please go ahead with your question.

Hey guys, good morning. I know you don't typically give full-year official guidance until the first quarter, but just wanted to hear a little bit more about building blocks for growth in 26. I know you said you intend to grow in the year. Maybe you could just talk about some of the puts and takes around the price that you took in 25 that sort of wraps into 26, new product launches, existing growth with some of the successful lines like Dolly and I guess some of those are maybe a little bit offset by volume declines more recently. But just how do you think about those factors qualitatively as we kind of think about the forecast for 26? And any commentary on seasonality this year would be appreciated as well.

From a seasonality, we're expecting more of a normal seasonality. You know, there were disruptions in 25 that were tariff-oriented, which, you know, put a – a total curve on normal seasonality. So I think we don't expect it to not normalize in 26. Some of the things you mentioned, you know, pricing increases, you know, which is kind of a one-time event, happened throughout 2025. So the impact of those will be fully felt because they were fully implemented. in 25, so you get the full impact of that in 2026, which of course the caveat is what's going to happen. From a new product introduction, I think, well, I know that we've been introducing a much greater amount of new product than a lot of competition just because times are tough and a lot of people are paring back. But a couple of areas we're seeing good traction. One, we talked about the Dolly brand. That's actually expanding beyond the dollar channel where we have firm commitments. And while we had tremendous growth in 25, we expect that trajectory to continue in 26. So we see some good growth there. Our food service initiative, that's a business where you have to build a book of business, and then it becomes a bit of an annuity for a period of time. And particularly, Macasa Hospitality has gained a lot of traction. So while a small base, we expect substantial increase in those revenues in 26. The end market in 25 for food service establishments was very challenged. So you saw new store openings decline. You saw store closings decline. throughout a lot of multi-unit franchises and the like. Unknown where that heads in 26. The industry thinks it'll go up, but nonetheless, we've gained market share and not end market driven. We'll see some nice growth in that area in 2026. So those are some of the key drivers. Hopefully answers gives you some perspective there.

Yeah, that's helpful. Thanks, Rob. We wanted to also hear a little bit about what you're hearing from your large retail customers in terms of willingness to take on inventory. What does sell-through look like or POS data that you're seeing in kind of your key SKUs versus sell-in, and how are you thinking about that for 26?

So we've seen a pretty large divergence from channel to channel. with certain channels performing very strong from a POS perspective and certain ones being weaker. We saw a continuing trend in the fourth quarter that we've seen over the last couple years that there's been an uptick in e-commerce. So the holiday season continued the trend that we saw in 2024 where a lot of consumers waited to make their purchases from historical purchase cycles because they knew they could get delivery rather quickly and that that helped e-comm in the fourth quarter and therefore drove full year performance. So that trend should continue. But there is high bifurcation. From a perspective of you see from time to time, particularly with larger retailers where, There's and we saw some of this in 25. They pull back on safety stock issues. So there's a divergent between selling and sell through. And we saw some of that in 25. We don't expect that to be a major impact in 26. And part of that is in some of the more sophisticated people that have done that have pared back a lot. And if they pare back more, they would harm their sell through their velocity. which is obviously not in their interest to do so. So we don't expect that to be a factor in 26.

Okay, very helpful. And then maybe just one more, if I could. The net leverage at the end of the year looks good, under four times. Wanted to just hear how you guys are thinking about cash priorities this year. Obviously, you've got a lot of organic growth initiatives in place. But then you have the European restructuring that's still maybe ongoing or maybe just recently implemented. How do you balance the organic investments that you need to make versus the M&A funnel versus buying back your stock? Just wanted to hear a little bit about sort of capital allocation decision making for 2016.

Yeah, so there's actually a lot of internal growth initiatives that we're pursuing, but they're not capital intensive, except for the D.C., which we've already, you know, there's not too much on the come for that. And we also, you know, will get the benefit of the $13 million of the funding, government funding, mostly from Maryland. That'll offset Um, so, uh, not, not really any issue and constraints there. Um, uh, and plenty of availability, um, from, uh, you know, we'll continue, uh, we have no intention to change anything on our, on our dividend, our dividend policy. Um, we, um, we'll look to ultimately restructure, uh, our debt arrangements. Cause at this point and where we are. in terms of the life of that. We're not in an ability to buy back stocks, so we're not using cash at this point to do that because we have agreements with our lenders in place. But we'll ultimately restructure that and allow us to do so when we do that. And the M&A environment is the strongest I've seen in decades for strategic because, first of all, financials um um aren't investing you know so uh his our competition for a longest time has been financials at very very high valuations so valuations have been down you know but a lot of businesses um that are institutionally owned you know there's something that needs um larger company or or uh infrastructure help you know like um to move product from a China based system to distributed geography, you need a lot of infrastructure to do that. Both from a supply chain quality, it takes a lot of effort and work. And with the fluctuations of moving it all over the place, it's a lot of smaller, less capitalized people are having troubles, let alone the systems and everything to deal with the constant pricing fluctuations as tariffs change and evolve. So that combination um has made it very attractive so we're seeing real deal flow at real valuations that we haven't seen literally in in decades um so uh we have some large opportunities we're looking at you don't know if they'll come through but uh you know it's one of the things that we wrote off on a couple of things that were working that wrote off but you know expensed in in the fourth quarter um uh related to that and hopefully we'll see some highly accretive uh opportunities if we can um

Okay, sounds great. Appreciate all the detail, and I'll turn it over.

Our next question comes from Brian McNamara from Canaccord Genuity. Please go ahead with your question.

Hey, good morning, guys. Thanks for taking the questions. So this is your best Q4 EBITDA margin that we can recall with sales down even better than 2020 and 2021 when sales were up. Gross margins were nicely up, presumably from the benefit of tariff pricing. But I'm curious what drove SG&A lower and how sustainable that is.

Yeah, it's a great question, Brian, and hi.

So it's sustainable. It's all a function of how fast we want to grow. Um, and you know, if we have opportunities and is a good return on that, you know, we can increase investment, you know, which would increase, uh, you know, infrastructure and SG&A, but with a return. Um, so, uh, in the current state of the business with what we have on the plate, including the growth we intend for 2026, um, there's not, um, a need for, um, investing in SG&A. We'll also see the further benefits one way or the other with our international operations, which will continue to benefit those lineups.

Great. I'm curious.

Brian, let me know. Larry's going to give me something on U.S. gross margins, the comment I made about the FIFO inventory. So, you know, we had talked about how we were increasing our sales price to offset the tariff, which should have a negative effects on the gross larger percentage, neutral to dollars. But because we still have some pre-tariffed inventory, we're seeing some benefit there. But that's not going to continue. As that rolls off, it'll come back a bit.

I'm sorry to belabor, but as you know, Brian, you've seen us for a little bit. is in any given particular quarter or reporting period, you're going to get margin fluctuations based upon mix, channel mix particularly, but also product.

Understood. Next, I'm curious, which of your brands saw sales increases in 2025 outside of Dolly as an overall sales decline for a fourth straight year? What gives you guys confidence at the top line in flex this year? Yeah.

The main confidence that we see there is the disruptions that we saw in 26. And again, in the fourth quarter, we got some rebound of things that didn't shift from Q2 and Q3, but we'll have a much more normalization in a lot of the core business in 2026, because some of that did not come back in 25, will in 26. So that's going to be a natural change. driver for our business. We talked about Dolly will continue to grow. We're seeing good traction there. You know, in cutlery, we've had a tremendous run for a few years. And a lot of that is new product implementation or build a board line, you know, went from nothing, you know, created a whole marketplace. Um, the growth trajectory of that piece of cutlery will not continue from, uh, you know, uh, the trajectory of growth, but we establish a new business, you know, it will maintain. Um, and there are some other things in that line that we're introducing that, you know, hopefully, uh, we'll produce some good growth. There are some things we haven't disclosed that are new. Um, that get us into new space, totally or internal investment, um, that, um, Hopefully, we'll hit 26. If not, we'll hit 27. But unfortunately, we can't disclose that at this moment, but there are some things that are total organic internal initiatives that are completely new that hopefully will drive some nice growth for us.

Great. And just on the brand growth for the year, any brands perform better than the company average?

Yeah. So, I mean, Taylor had a phenomenal year. You know, Taylor is a great business, you know, from the retailer to our customers perspective. It's very attractive to them because what they track is a key metric, which is the velocity and the margins that they make. It's very profitable for them. It's very good. And it had a very good year across the board in twenty five. You know, again, you know, that trajectory will not continue in 26, but we had a banner year and that continues to do well. Farberware, you know, across different things, you know, very strong. And Farberware's, you know, our growth engine. You know, KitchenAid, we lost some share a couple of years ago at Walmart. That has run through our numbers. We still have some of that that hit us in 25, you know, so that's actually the opportunities. And we relaunched The kitchen tool piece of that with a new line that's getting tremendous traction. And we also introduced just recently for 26, a storage KitchenAid storage product, which we think is beautiful, but is getting more importantly acceptance in the marketplace. So that not in 25, but 26 is looking pretty good KitchenAid.

Great. And you mentioned the Dolly brand, obviously sales up really nicely, up 150% for the year. How big is that now? And what is your expectation for sales growth contribution or shipments in 2026?

So, you know, 24, we started that program. It was a small base, right? You know, so part of that 150% was off small base. We shipped 18 million in 25. We will have substantial growth in 26 as well.

Okay, and then finally, obviously topical, given the war in Iran at the moment, can you remind us how you're positioned on freight in terms of spot versus contract, your cost exposure to oil and resin, and anything else we should be mindful of there?

Yeah, so so many questions that take an hour to answer, but So from a couple of things that I ran, one is what we're seeing is container rates are starting to go up. And we'll probably start to experience that. We have very attractive long-term contracts in for freight. But the reality of what happens in very high escalating periods is the shippers start to ignore those um to be honest um you know so long-term contracts are are a benefit you know but sometimes uh yeah there's only so much that you can benefit and you'll get some of it but not all of it in very high inflationary uh ocean freight uh environments um we um there is we do very little business in the mid-east we won't get much disruption there you it will get no disruption we actually have a lot of upside that may not come on some new business. But either way, it's not material. Our European business is in jeopardy of seeing some supply disruption because the shipments are coming in a different, it's going to be longer if they have to go around Africa and the like. But we think our inventory levels aren't going to impact that. And from a cost of goods sold perspective, You know, plastics have resins. Resins are impacted by petroleum cost. We have not seen anything. We'll see how that plays out. But if you look at it as a total percentage on a bill of material basis, it isn't going to have a huge impact on us.

Great. Very helpful.

Thanks very much.

Pass it on.

And our next question comes from Anthony Leibazinsky from Sidonian Company. Please go ahead with your question.

Good morning and thanks for taking the questions. And it's certainly nice to see the better than expected results here in the fourth quarter. So it sounds overall like you guys should be able to maintain your SG&A costs. As far as your distribution costs, those also came down in the fourth quarter. How should we be thinking about that line item? And then I have a couple of other questions as well.

Yeah, on the distribution, you know, as I noted, our West Coast facility is running very efficiently given the new warehouse management system that's working quite well. And as I noted, as an expense, as a percentage, because, you know, we had selling price increases, but there wasn't any... meaningful cost increase, we'll continue to see that expense benefit as a percentage. And, you know, we think, you know, there'll be some, I'd say, mild disrupting expenses perhaps when we move into the Maryland facility, but we anticipate those. And, you know, we've done this, we've done it many times, these moves. We're going to put in that new warehouse management system in that facility. So we're anticipating it to run quite well.

And on STNA, and this also goes to Brian's question a little bit, is, you know, the moves we've taken are sustainable. The only thing where you'll see some bounce back in 26 versus 25 is, look, you know, from a sort of target and incentive compensation perspective, we paid out hardly any, you know, particularly nothing to management. And with improved performance in 26, there will likely be corresponding payment of incentive compensation. You know, that, but everything, that's not the bulk of the SG&A cost that was achieved, cost reduction that was achieved in 25.

Got it. Okay. Thanks for that. And then, you know, in terms of the international segment, Larry, you may have said this, but perhaps I missed it, but in terms of the operating a loss for the quarter, for the year. Can you provide the comments on that?

Yeah, I mean, you know, there was a loss. It was as pronounced as we had in 24. I mean, as Rob mentioned on his comments, we're not done. You know, the Concord, and we'll call it Concord 2.0, continues. So, and there's some other things that we had hoped to achieve, but, you know, there's legal and other issues. roadblocks that slowed us down, we're hoping to achieve during 2026. Okay, got it.

And then just a couple of other things here. So as far as you know, the fourth quarter, you had a tax benefit, which you addressed, Larry, how should we think about the tax rate for 2026? Any sort of commentary there on that?

Sure. So, yeah, I know it's very hard with our numbers to figure out tax rate, but we should be in the high 20% range. And that's based on the thing that, well, I should say we have some usual occurrences this quarter, more usual than others. But what distorts our provision historically has been the loss internationally of where because of a history of lawsuits, you can't record a tax benefit, and that would distort it. So we get, to the extent we get the international operations to break even or better, our tax rate should be in the, you know, 28, 28, 27, 28%. And that's a combination of the U.S. federal rate and state.

Gotcha. I got it. Okay. And then lastly, as far as the Maryland Distribution Center sounds like it's very well on track. So in terms of thinking about the CapEx for this year, do you guys have a ballpark estimate of what that could be?

Yeah, so we had, like I said, we're anticipating it to be below budget, but, you know, let's not count it. We're very confident we're going to achieve the budget. I think we should be at it. So for CapEx, I think we had originally forecasted $9 million. It may be perhaps less. then they're a little less. And we, but of that, we spent a couple of million of it in 25. So, you know, let's call it around $7 million for that, you know, just for that in 26. But also bear in mind, there'll be a little offset compared to historically because we won't have, we won't have the maintenance that we typically have in our New Jersey facility because we are putting in, you know, new racking and other things and, you know, turrets and other things. in the Maryland facility. So there'll be maybe another million-dollar benefit against what we would otherwise spend for routine maintenance.

Understood. Well, thank you very much, and best of luck. Thanks. Thanks, Anthony.

And ladies and gentlemen, in showing no additional questions at this time, I would like to turn the floor back over to management for any closing remarks.

Thanks, Jamie. Thank you, everyone, for listening and your interest in Lifetime Brands, and we look forward to further dialogue in the future. Have a great day.

And with that, everyone, we'll be concluding today's conference call and presentation. We thank you for joining. You may now disconnect your lines. Everyone else has left the call.