Linde plc

ladies and gentlemen good day and thank you for standing by welcome to the lindy second quarter 2026 earnings call and webcast at this time all participants are in a listen-only mode please be advised that today's conference is being recorded after the speaker's presentation there will be a question and answer session and i would now like to hand the conference over to mr juan pelias head of investor relations please go ahead sir abby thank you

Good morning, everyone, and thanks for attending our 2026 second quarter earnings column webcast. I'm Juan Pelaez, head of investor relations, and I'm joined this morning by Sanjeev Lamba, chief executive officer, and Matt White, chief financial officer. Today's presentation materials are available on our website at lindy.com in the investor section. Please read the forward-looking statement disclosures on page two on the slides and note that it applies to all statements made during this talk conference. The reconciliations of the adjusted numbers are in the appendix of this presentation. Sanjeev will provide some opening remarks, and then Matt will give an update on Lindy's second quarter financial performance and outlook, after which we will wrap up with Q&A. Let me turn the call over to Sanjeev.

Thanks, Juan, and good morning, everyone. During the second quarter, we achieved record sales on EPS levels, with both growing at near double-digit percent, while increasing the backlog by $1 billion to a record $8.1 billion. after securing a new electronics win in the U.S. In addition, the backlog project pipeline remains healthy with several new project opportunities under development. For the remainder of the year, we're expecting to start up more than 20 projects that add up to approximately $1.3 billion in investments. Even after accounting for these startups and based on the opportunities I see today, I expect our sale of gas backlog to finish the year with an eight handle. underscoring the continued strength of our long-term growth outlook. While these results demonstrate the strength of our core business and the future growth prospects, we are not satisfied with our margin performance for this quarter. Operating margins excluding cost pass-through declined approximately 30 basis points year-over-year, primarily driven by the America segment. Some of this is due to higher equipment and hard goods sales in our package business which actually I view as a good sign of U.S. manufacturing recovery. But the majority is driven by the U.S. home care business. Even though we have been actively pruning this portfolio, it simply has not been enough to overcome the continued headwinds led by higher cost inflation and policy changes. We have a series of actions underway, and I fully expect sequential improvement into the third quarter. At the same time, we continue to evaluate the strategic fit of this U.S. home care business within Linde, both in part and as a whole, while remaining focused on improving its performance and ensuring it earns its place in the portfolio. Matt will speak more to the numbers, but I remain confident in our long-term margin expansion story. Now, I'd like to touch on some growth trends which can be found on slide three. Consumer-related markets grew versus prior year and sequentially. Healthcare and food and beverage grew along with demographic trends and consumption, with stronger sequential growth related to beverage seasonality. As expected, electronics is the fastest-growing end market, with a combination of project startups and higher demand tied to hardware associated with AI. As I mentioned earlier, we added $1 billion of new electronics wins to the backlog to support the expansion of advanced node fabs in Western US. Consistent with other backlog projects, we've already begun constructing the plants under reimbursable LOIs while the supply contracts were finalized. I'm pleased to see this addition to our existing network of plants in Arizona and look forward to winning a few more large opportunities that we're currently pursuing. not included in the backlog are a couple of electronics wins by a taiwan jv which will invest approximately 800 million dollars to build own and operate asus and hydrogen production units to supply to new semiconductor fab and advanced packaging facilities there overall i expect electronics to remain our largest backlog contributor and one of the fastest growing markets for the foreseeable future Moving to industrial-related markets, manufacturing remains the fastest-growing market. We experienced volume growth across APAC and the Americas, although the U.S. is still the primary driver with both aerospace and construction activity related to data centers. In fact, aerospace accounted for more than a third of the manufacturing growth during the quarter. Both metals and mining and chemicals energy markets grew low single digits. medicine mining activity was solid in the u.s and brazil and most of the chemicals growth relates to project backlog contributions in apac aside from these regions both end markets remain flattish across other geographies in summary we've left the more difficult comps and are starting to see green shoots of growth across certain geographies and end markets for the more the project backlog reached a new record from the large-scale electronics wins and we anticipate some further base capex investments to support our commercial space customers. Regardless of the current challenges, you can be assured that the entire Lindy team is focused on being the best performing industrial gas business globally. I'll now turn the call over to Matt to walk through our financial results. Thanks, Sanjay.

Please turn to slide four for the consolidated results. Sales of $9.3 billion rose 9% from prior year and 6% sequentially. Versus prior year, FX was a 2% tailwind, while acquisitions and engineering each contributed 1%. Cost pass-through rose 1% on higher power in all segments, but was partially offset by lower natural gas for U.S. hydrogen. Excluding these items, Underlying sales rose 4%, split between higher volume and price. Almost half of the volume increase relates to project startups in APAC and Americas. The remaining is driven by organic growth in the US, China, Korea, India, and the advanced materials business. While aerospace and electronics continue to lead, industrial and markets are improving in select geographies especially the u.s the price increase of two percent was broad-based across all geographies and generally tracked with local inflation sequentially underlying sales increased four percent from three percent volume and one percent pricing More than half of the volume increased relates to seasonal factors, with the remainder being organic. Operating margins of 29.5% decreased 60 basis points from prior year or 30 basis points when excluding the impact of cost pass-through. As Sanjeev mentioned, the U.S. home care business negatively impacted the Americas. Excluding this, margins would have increased. but regardless actions are underway to improve separately u.s hard goods sales are up double digit percent from prior year and while this mix is dilutive to margins it could bode well for u.s manufacturing recovery finally the apac erosion is mostly due to lower margin equipment sales for electronic customers overall We expect many of these margin headwinds to be temporary and thus recover in the coming quarters. Operating profit rolled down to an EPS of $4.50, or 10% over prior year, from a combination of net income and lower share count. Slide five provides an overview of capital management. The operating cash flow trend shows moderate year-over-year growth as higher earnings are partially offset by unfavorable timing in the engineering business. Recall that the first half results are seasonally lower, so we expect the second half to step up like prior years. Available cash flow, which we define as operating cash flow less base capex, remains at healthy levels, enabling significant excess cash for secure growth and shareholder distributions, which can be seen in the pie chart. Year to date, we've deployed $6 billion of capital, split evenly between business investments and shareholder returns. $1.9 billion of secured growth represents capital deployed for acquisitions and the project backlog. When considering the record $8.1 billion sale of gas backlog, continued roll-up acquisition targets and project pipeline opportunities, we expect this number to remain a significant use of capital for the foreseeable future. I'll wrap up with guidance on slide six. Third quarter guidance range is $4.45 to $4.55. or 6% to 8% growth. This assumes no currency impact from prior year, but does assume a 1% FX headwind sequentially. Consistent with prior approach, the range assumes no economic improvement at the midpoint. The updated full year range is $17.70 to $17.90, or 8% to 9% growth excluding a one percent fx tailwind assumption this range raises the prior bottom end by 10 cents but leaves the top unchanged while base volumes showed some recovery in the second quarter we'd like a few more quarters under our belt before incorporating this trend into future guides therefore we're leaving the back half guidance assumption the same as before The Q2 to Q3 sequential EPS trend is projected to increase 5 cents at the midpoint when excluding FX, which reflects some of the actions being undertaken. Of course, this is merely a guide. How we perform is what matters most. We know our owners expect more, and the organization is committed to delivering on those expectations. And I'll turn the call over to Q&A.

Thank you. And we will now begin the question and answer session. If you have dialed in and would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad to raise your hand and join the queue. If you would like to withdraw your question, simply press star 1 a second time. If you're called upon to ask your question and are listening via speakerphone on your device, please pick up your handset and ensure that your phone is not on mute when asking your question. To be able to take as many questions as possible, we ask that you please limit yourself to one question. Again, it is star one if you would like to join the queue. And our first question comes from the line of Laurent Favre with BNP Paribas. Your line is open.

Yes, good morning. Thank you. And Sanjeev, I think you said it all within the first five minutes. Can I dig a little bit deeper in that healthcare comment? Can you give us a sense of how much of a headwind it has been over the last year? Is the business in the US currently profitable at all? Or how much of a margin drag it has been on the business? Please.

Thanks, Laurel. So I think in the slides itself, we've laid out the fact that the America's business x the u.s home care or link care business would be up 20 basis points on margin um x pass-through as we normally do so that is a reflection of you know the gases business doing well as we said in the remarks as well that there is a bit of a mix effect which actually to be honest you know i see the gases business doing well i will take the uh hard goods you know double digit hard goods sales that we're seeing in the business it's a good signal of manufacturing recovery in the u.s Yes, it has a small dilutive impact on margin, which is temporary. And then, of course, we talked briefly about sale of equipment elsewhere, particularly APAC, where there was that impact as well. But from our perspective, not happy with where the margins are. Actions are aggressively underway to essentially attack the issues that we've identified in the Link Care business. And I expect that we will continue to see sequential improvement as we move forward.

and thank you and just as a follow up on the electronic side i think the contract that you announced have been i guess in the pipeline for a while um i was wondering in terms of geographies or maybe some of the key customers where do you see the biggest opportunities on the electronic side is still in the us or you know elsewhere in asia maybe in korea taiwan etc absolutely um the electronics pipeline as i said in my remarks as well is looking healthy at this point in time

And you certainly heard from me say that I expect that we'll end this year on the backlog with an eight handle despite bringing on investments of up to 1.3 billion. So the backlog will go down from the current sale of gas backlog of 8.1 by about 1.3, and we will add back into that backlog. So it has to be supported by a robust pipeline. Those projects span the wall, to your point. I see bulk of those projects out of the U.S.

but see strong pipelines in taiwan and korea as well and some in china thank you and our next question comes from the line of patrick cunningham with city your line is open

Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. I guess just, you know, talking about, you know, some of the manufacturing growth assumptions, particularly in North America, it doesn't seem like you have some of those base volume assumption trends sort of baked into the outlook. But, you know, is the bulk of that inflection that you've seen coming from commercial space? I was hoping maybe you could dig into the health of some of the other end markets and, you know, what you're sort of anticipating for the second half.

Sure. So why don't I start off with a quick view. I think I provided a broad overview in my prepared remarks, Patrick, there. Let me just kind of give you a sense of what we think the outlook for the second half looks like. So traditionally, our resilient markets, healthcare and food and beverage, have been consistent. And, you know, we continue to expect the same outlook for the rest of the year there. Nothing significant to change. electronics uh you know as you saw year on year had 18 growth in second quarter we expect electronics momentum to carry on for the rest of the year as well so again pretty positive in terms of that and of course adding to the backlog helps us get um the future growth prospects locked in as well a point on electronics worth noting and i think in apac in particular the sale of equipment that we provide to many of our electronics customers is very important for us because while you know from a margin point of view not that exciting the reality is the pull through on gas sales that happen in the future i think this kind of ensures that so feel good about that as well as we look at the second half on the industrial markets and i'd say to you manufacturing which you kind of specifically mentioned looks robust signals from the us market in particular where the the recovery is most prominent uh looks good. The feedback from the customers suggests that they see that outlook for the rest of the year as things stand today. Now, within that, you know, the indicators that we look for, and I reference this again in my remarks briefly, the sale in the U.S. package business is a good leading indicator. Here, the gas side has been growing mid to high single digit, with the hard goods themselves growing double digit. And I think that's where the confidence that the manufacturing recovery that we're expecting, not just recovery, I think the momentum that we're expecting in manufacturing in the U.S. likely to continue. We see that also elsewhere. Asia Pacific saw manufacturing momentum pick up as well, despite the fact that, you know, there are some Middle East-related challenges in Asia in particular, but the manufacturing underlying seem to continue to perform well. So, again, the outlook for that continues to be reasonably robust aerospace did provide for more than a third of that growth for manufacturing so to your point i expect that momentum to carry on into the second half as well chemicals energy you know has been a little bit spottier i think low single digit growth uh we've obviously had the benefit of some good backlog contributions coming in in asia so i think that's uh that's looked good but i do not see a fundamental shift in the chemicals energy piece Obviously, there's a lot of volatility in the market at the moment. There are lots of geopolitical events that could impact one way or the other. And in part, you would see from our guidance that we have taken a neutral stand in terms of what's going to happen to the economy. We are happy for our investors to take a view on that because at this point, it's all speculation. Metals and mining, again, pretty robust in the US and in Brazil. I expect that trend to be about steady. Obviously, in the U.S., with all the build-out that's happening with data centers, et cetera, you know, metals are getting a little bit of fill up, so that's good. Listening to some of our customers' calls over the last few weeks, I've seen slightly more, slightly higher degree of optimism as well on steel, so it'll be good to see that flow through into the next half as well. So I think that kind of broadly gives you a sense of where we are seeing momentum and what the outlook for second half looks like at this point.

great thank you so much and our next question comes from the line of duffy fisher with goldman sachs your line is open yeah good morning fellas uh question just around the impact that you've seen on your business and on your customers from what's happening with the strata hormuz and kind of the greater persian gulf area um obviously particularly with helium but then just with the general business and then

you know if that issue reside or resolves itself this year what do you think the impact will be a year out as that starts to normalize so that'd be uh the middle east impact as you know and i'll start with helium just to begin with because i think that's a that's a good place to kind of give a sense of how we've managed and navigated that that fairly complex set of issues but uh and then talk talk a little bit about what happens elsewhere So starting with Helium, I think as far as Helium is concerned, I'm really pleased with how our team has navigated this whole set of developments over the last many months, largely because we've done what we need to do in ensuring that reliable and safe supplies happen to our existing contracted customers. And we've had a lot of positive feedback coming from them because that's what they would expect from Lindy. But more importantly, our teams have also gone out and they've signed up new contractors customers with long-term contracts as well uh leveraging the fact that we have you know the confidence in our supply chain due to the diverse you know sources that we have supplying into the helium supply chain the cavern that we maintain and of course quite importantly the capability around supply chain logistics in terms of tanks etc all of that's played played well into you know positioning this for new business growth that we've seen um we have had you know the pricing move along as well, which has been a good thing. Obviously, with dislocation costs related to helium, the overall recovery probably doesn't quite show through in the margins just yet, but I fully expect that it will over the next couple of quarters. I think equally important to just underscore on the helium piece is the fact that looking ahead, we continue to be confident in our ability to maintain that supply chain despite you know the more recent developments in the Strait of Hormuz. Any change in the Strait of Hormuz and the fact that we restart helium production back in Qatar and get the alignment of all the supply chain elements that need to come together between tanks and shipping and so on and so forth I think will have a lasting impact for the rest of the year. I don't think you will see normalization this year it will you know once once those issues are resolved which of course itself remains a little bit of a question mark today once issues are resolved we will see normalization progress but it's at a small you know a slower pace than most of us would like and it'll kind of probably take us into the early part of next year um as things normalize yes next year we should see a more normalized helium market but at this point in time know seeing the resolution of what happens in the state of hormones is probably more important than speculating what next year is going to look like let me talk about some of the other markets so where we have seen an impact of the middle east crisis is the fact that in asia countries highly dependent on hydrocarbons coming out of the middle east have had to scale back industrial activity and i think you know markets like india some parts of asean um australia and and and to a lesser extent china have seen that and i think that that's where the impact uh over the over this second quarter as we've uh kind of mentioned to you is probably a little bit more visible everybody's hoping for a resolution once that happens you will see that normalization happen fairly quickly but each of those countries has been looking at different strategies to manage these uh these these issues that they're currently contending with terrific thank you

our next question comes from the line of vincent andrews with morgan stanley your line is open hey maybe just a two part one first on helium just to clarify did you all change anything um in your guidance assumptions relative to what you had assumed back at the start of the year um and then secondly in america's um the kind of year-on-year price stepped down i think it was flat sequentially was that the hard goods mix issue or is underlying sequential price uh leveling off thank you hey it's matt i could probably uh answer those um so i think first on helium

Yeah, so we left the guidance intact. So by default, that kind of means no material change and helium would also be part of that. So to your first point, we didn't change it. And just kind of building off what Sanji said, you know, when you think about the helium business right now, what we're seeing, we are seeing strong price improvement, but we're also seeing higher costs for dislocation, as Sanji mentioned. So the um contribution on a dollar basis it is positive it's not as large as we'd like it but it's positive but on a margin basis that grossing up effect right now is a little bit dilutive um that should stabilize it normally does but as you can imagine right now meeting our customers and and getting new uh contract signed is the priority and doing it a positive dollar contribution is happening it's just the margin gross up effect right now is a little bit dilutive on that front um know on the americas uh just to make sure i understand i mean you know price is up two percent year over year sequentially we're flat as you know when we talk about sequential i tend not to spend a lot of time on sequential just given the different timings of some of the escalations that are done and the pricing actions year over year always is a more important metric for me um so when i think about that you know it is i'd say for america's delivering our expectations know obviously you're going to have again we talked about link here there's not pricing in that business right now a significant amount it is probably not keeping up uh with what it needs to be so that will be a little bit of drag that's been the case though for many years now so i would say pricing in america is on the year-over-year is tracking where we'd expect and what we want to see uh hopefully that answers your question but uh just make sure you know i don't know if you have a follow-up on that all good thank you

And our next question comes from the line of David Begleiter with Deutsche Bank. Your line is open.

Thank you. Good morning. Sanjeev, I know it's early, but if you look at next year, 2027, given project startups, helium maybe being a tailwind next year, helium, growth in space, pricing, productivity, do you need much of any macro improvement to get to double-digit 10% EPS growth next year? Thank you.

Thanks, David. As you know, our EPS algorithm lays out the fact that between management actions and capital allocation combined, we should be delivering 8% to 12%. We're not looking for macro. As long as macro is not taking away from that, you should expect us to look at that 8% to 12% range. And I think we will be consistent on that as we look at next year as well. Obviously, any tailwinds that we get will be factored straight in, and you will see that improvement come through at the EPS line. Now, as you know, you know, this is very early to talk about 2027. So later in the year, we'll, we'll have, and early next year is when, you know, our guidance will be more, more clear on that. But later in the year, we'll obviously be doing a lot of work planning for next year to make sure that we have a good handle on how the business is going to play out.

And to be clear, Helium should be headwind next, should be a tailwind next year. Is that fair?

Helium will be normalized next year. I think we'll have to wait and see what that means. The complexity of volume and price mix, I think, will play a role in what helium does next year. Thank you.

And our next question comes from the line of Josh Spector with UBS. Your line is open.

yeah hi good morning um i want to ask on the capex race for this year i think you addressed it in the prepared remarks briefly but did you indicate that a lot of that increase was linked with commercial space and i guess if you can give maybe any other breakdown of that 500 million dollar increase that'd be helpful and i'm just curious with that you know if you are building more for that market through your merchant um you know pipeline What does that mean for space customers approach in your view to make versus buy in terms of oxygen, nitrogen and the gases for that market? Thanks.

Hey, Josh, it's Matt. I could probably handle those. So starting on the CapEx. Yes, you are correct. The CapEx number on the estimate was bumped up. um clearly with the backlog wins that will drive that um so by adding uh the new project uh that sans you've mentioned uh in the prepared remarks um that is contributing to that and yes there are going to be uh more commercial space activities in the base capex um that also are contributing to that as well so um the combination of those two both the project backlog and some of the base capex uh will drive that you know as far as the make versus five um you know that that When you think about our traditional onsite customers, that always is something that has been something we manage for many, many decades, right? A traditional onsite customer would look to buy a plant versus outsourcing a sale of gas model. And that's something we had always managed through usually a hybrid approach because we had the capability to do both. I would say with commercial space, given the quantities of propellant they require, um you're seeing a similar dynamic at least with certain players that have comfort and the access of capital to uh have a desire to vertically integrate now this right now is primarily only with certain players in atmospherics we are not seeing it in the hydrogen side which is a very very different dynamic for any hydrolog space engines so it's a normal occurrence i'd say when you start seeing these kind of quantities it's something that's very akin to how we've navigated the on-site this for many decades and we're very comfortable with it. So absolutely, I expect you'll see a blend of sale of gas and some sale of plant. Generally, those sale of plants can come with what's called an operate and maintain. So you tend to run it all as a system. You may run customer-owned plants with your own plants on sale of gas, and that gives the customer kind of the best of both. And it also helps manage our both capital and management of products. So I would anticipate that for certain customers, not all customers, And it also would probably only be on certain atmospheric. I don't anticipate it at this stage at hydrogen. So that's how I see that develop.

The only thing I'd reiterate there, Matt, would be the fact that, you know, we will play for both sale of, you know, gas as well as sale of plants. So, you know, we do participate in the opportunity even if it is a sale of plant in case people want to vertically integrate them.

Okay. Thank you both.

And our next question comes from the line of Matthew Dale with Bank of America. Your line is open.

Good morning, everyone. Congratulations for getting the large electronics customers over the line. Can you share maybe some revenue intensity of the CapEx or give some guidance? Your European competitors kind of flagged like a,

25 capex to revenue conversion on some of these projects is that is that a reasonable ballpark for you hey matt uh this is matt um so the revenue to capex is always going to be a function of whether it's atmospheric or whether it's processed gases like hydrogen so as you can imagine if you have a more processed hydrogen base that has energy pastor that might be higher um but traditionally for us You know revenue has ranged anywhere from you know 20 to 50% depending upon energy pass through or totally and I would just say of the ones we've won they're very, very similar to the structure and ones we've already. had in place on the first few phases there's no real difference from that perspective, because those contracts follow a very similar construct on both the molecules and how energy is managed.

thanks and if i could the other business typically a bit all over the place but it was kind of maybe not immaterial this quarter uh if i my memory serves me right that's where lindy amt is and some of the sputtering targets and that stuff so is that the semi-cycle build here and and this should be kind of like a an indication of the direction of of

of profits or am i always kind of a little bit of a one-off uh positive quarter hey matt i'd say that the materials business overall has been doing well um sitting within that our coding services atomizers uh and and some uh sputtering etc i think all in that that portfolio is performing reasonably well under these conditions driven by aerospace a little bit of the commercial speed build out as well And I think if you put that together, I think it's looking, the outlook seems pretty robust for the second half as well.

And our next question comes from the line of Jeff Sakakis with JP Morgan. Your line is open.

Thanks very much. If I did the math correctly, the home care penalty was 30 million in the second quarter.

so order of magnitude is that a hundred million penalty for this year and is lynn care all of your 23 percent of health care revenues for the americas hey jeff it's matt so i think the number is a little higher than what you have um so you're close but i'd say it's it's probably uh higher, though. But you could probably say 30% higher than that number, give or take. So that is the Edwin we have. That's what we're facing. I think when you think about the Americas, it is clearly the largest piece. Now, it does not include the institutional portion, which is actually run through our traditional gas business because of the nature of the contracts and the structure. But it is by far the lion's share of the Americas healthcare, just given the size of the revenue of that business.

Okay. And when we look at your healthcare revenues, they look pretty flat year over year. So can you talk about the dynamic that's pressuring profitability? And have you come to a decision as to whether you want to divest this business or is this going to be contemplated over the next quarter? Does it take longer? Can you help us with those issues?

Sure, Jeff. Look, the challenges at LinkCare are not new, right? The business has served us well through the COVID period and the immediate kind of couple of years after that. But over the last couple of years in particular, you heard us reference it as well. It has faced persistent headwinds, right, from labor cost inflation and changes in reimbursement environments. And I think those have contributed to these penalties that you referenced earlier on. Now, we put a new management team in place. Their focus is on improving the quality of that business. We've been pruning the portfolio. Again, you've heard us say that in a couple of the calls over the last couple of years as well. There are aggressive actions currently in place to look at operational improvements and productivity. Those actions, you know, will create the impact that we're looking for, which is why I expect as we move forward, we will see improvements in that business. Now, in parallel to those changes aggressive set of actions that we put in place we're also evaluating what the strategic options for this business are and i want to make sure that we do that exercise with diligence um and and determine one way or the other this business is going to have a meaningful positive impact on our portfolio great thank you and our next question comes from the line of james hooper with bernstein your line is open

All right. Thank you very much. Just in terms of the backlog projects, can you give a little bit more indication of the margins of these projects? Are these going to be some of the drivers of an uplift from this point in future years? Thank you.

Thanks, James. As you know, the backlog projects take typically between two to three years in terms of execution. By the time they come on, we then typically expect a ramp up to happen across the board. Now, the projects that we have in our backlog at the moment all met our investment criteria. We tend to look at them from a post-tax, double-digit, unleveled IRR perspective. So they kind of hit the investment criteria and therefore are an attractive part of the future business growth that we're likely to see. but they do have a ramp that they go through before they actually hit their final kind of margin contributions that they make. So you should expect that cycle of backlog projects coming up, starting up, starting to deliver on margin contribution, and then through the ramp process, ensuring that that moves up. So I always expect backlog projects to continue to improve on their margin till they reach their full capacity utilization. Thanks.

And our next question comes from the line of Kevin McCarthy with vertical research partners, your line is open.

Yes, thank you and good morning Sanjay if I look at your volume trend in Asia, it was up 6% for a second consecutive quarter, you know versus call it either side of flat throughout 2025. you unpack that a little bit for us my sense is you've had project startups there and maybe some sale of equipment just trying to get a better sense of whether the baseline demand is improving in apac kevin i think in part you've already answered your question there are three components to what is happening in the asia volumes right there is obviously base volume which is positive there are

plc plc plc plc to James earlier on how we expect projects to ramp up. We're seeing a ramp up of our backlog projects that were started up and are ramping up in ASEAN in particular, also contributing to that. You put those three together, I think you see that healthy 6% sitting over there.

Okay. And then I wanted to ask maybe a general question on your backlog. I mean, it seems that the electronic space in particular is quite vibrant and you're winning a fair amount of business there. Does that create a positive mix effect at all? In other words, if you look at your returns, let's say, over the last decade, are they any better in the electronic space relative to all of the other end-use markets combined, or would you say that they're similar?

Hey, Kevin. It's Matt. I can handle that. as you probably know you know and as we said we we make our decisions on irr right that's how we make our backlog and our capital decisions so it's not really a revenue or a margin uh uh kind of view more of an irr you know undiscounted uh or discounted unlevered uh view so from that perspective i would say all of our projects whether it's in any end market electronics energy They tend to all fall within a certain consistent range because it's based on the risk and the terms and the conditions of what we're undertaking. And of course, in electronics, you're going to have more purity requirements and you're going to have probably more redundancy, which generally means more capital. But your return profiles tend to be consistent nonetheless. So we don't really see much disparity in on-site returns by end market. That tends not to happen. Where you can see different margin profiles is when you get the incremental process gases, rare gases, specialty gases that tend to come with large electronic clusters because those are more specialized, require a lot more effort on purity and manufacturing. And so that bolt on on the after fact, it can create some incremental margin opportunities. But the onsites themselves are very similar across all end markets. And again, IRR is what drives those decisions.

Very helpful. Thank you both.

And our next question comes from the line of John McNulty with BMO Capital. Your line is open.

Yeah, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. Sanjeev, maybe can you speak to what you're seeing in particular out of a pack on the industrial side in terms of longer term investment i know you spoke to you know right now there's this kind of a mix of things going on just given what's going on in the uh in the strait and and the iran conflict but is that having any slowdown effect or pausing effect on future projects future you know growth in the industrial markets looking out over the say the next two to three years or is Is it business as usual and things are going to keep kind of coming on over time and adding to your growth as well?

John, I'd say the headline over there would be business as usual, reflected in a bit of a change in the mix. So clearly strong electronics growth. We talked about the backlog development. We expect the project pipeline for electronics growth in Asia-Pac to remain fairly robust. And I think that that helps with some of that long term investment profile that you're thinking about, where we do see a little bit of a mixed effect is where the traditional end markets, you know, for instance, you know, I do not expect to see significant steel investments happen in China, as an example. Now, if you go back a decade, clearly, that was the case. But, you know, going forward, that's unlikely to be the area where you see. On the other hand, you know, the flip side to that is in India, you're seeing traditional end market investments happen, which results in us seeing an investment cycle as well over there and those are in the more traditional you know end spaces like steel and like refining um and and other elements of manufacturing as well so i think i say to you business as usual broadly the mix is changing a little bit getting more uh positively impacted by electronics and then the rest being made up of the more traditional end markets got it thanks very much for the caller

And our next question comes from the line of Arun Biswanathan with RBC Capital Markets. Your line is open.

Thanks for taking my question. Apologies if this has already been asked, but if you could just elaborate a little bit more on some of the actions you're taking to drive a little bit of the margin recovery. I know that, you know, you did have some of that within the Americas, some compression. and then if you if you could um if you can look into uh maybe the back half or next year do you expect that uh negative operating leverage to be resolved um and what would drive that is it uh increased management actions and and pricing or productivity or how do you see that thanks hey ron that's matt um so i think a couple things um yeah first

Let's just talk about the cops and year over year, so if you may recall 2025 we had strong front half margins weaker back half margins, so when you think about the whole year in the context i'm fully expecting us to see better year over year. Just given how last year played out so that's just a bit of a comp scenario, but, as mentioned in the prepared remarks and, as we stated, we have a series of actions underway that we need to undertake to improve margins and. link care is going to be the focus given that's the biggest driver i do think some of the other aspects like higher hard good sales and some of the sale of equipment as sanji mentioned you know we view that as actually positive that's something we will continue to do that will get us greater wallet share and greater connection to future gas sales so those are an integral part of our model always have been and will continue to be and you do tend to see those grow stronger in certain recoveries and as markets start to expand but we will likely look to take uh some cost actions this quarter uh depending on the size that's something we want to get ahead of i mean it is clear you're seeing more inflation around the world and that's something that we have to manage through our productivity and our actions and in some regions um you're seeing growth which supports it and other regions you're seeing inflation without the growth And that's an area we're going to focus on specifically for this quarter, above and beyond our normal productivity initiatives we normally take as part of our everyday DNA. So more to come on that. It's something we'll probably give a little more color on and what we've done in the October call. But I can tell you right now, these actions are already underway, and we're accumulating all of them to get ahead of the next several quarters. Thank you.

we will now take our final question from the line of abigail eberts with wells fargo your line is open hi there thanks for taking my question um in the past you called out space being a billion dollar opportunity i'm just wondering if you have any update on that that number thanks space sector abigail continues to grow well um you know we we consider that the and we talked briefly about some of the uh

options around around space earlier on in the call but you know we are on track for that billion dollar opportunity that we laid out um over the next few years i think 2030 was the timeline billion pluses are what our expectation around the space markets was once it reaches a certain size you'll see us split that out in our end markets and have more visibility around it got it thank you very much and that concludes our question and answer session

I would now like to turn the call back to Juan Palaez for additional or closing remarks.

Abby, thank you. Thanks everyone for participating in today's call. If you have any further questions, please feel free to reach out. Have a great day.

And ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call and we thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.