LightPath Technologies, Inc.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for standing by. Welcome to the LightPath Technologies first quarter fiscal 2025 earnings conference call. During today's presentation, all parties will be in a listen-only mode. Following the presentation, the conference will be open for questions. This conference is being recorded today, November 7, 2024, and the earnings press release accompanying this conference call was issued after the market closed today. On our call today is Lifepath CAO Sam Rubin and CFO Al Miranda. I'd like to remind you that during the course of this conference call, the company will be making forward-looking statements that are based on current expectations, involve various risks and uncertainties as discussed in its periodic SEC filings. Although the company believes that the assumptions underlying these statements are reasonable, any of them can be proven to be inaccurate and there could be no assurance that the projected results would be realized. In addition, references made by may be made to certain financial measures that are not in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles or GAAP. We refer to these as non-GAAP financial measures. Please refer to our SEC reports in certain of our press releases, which include reconciliations of non-GAAP financial measures and associated disclaimers. Sam will begin today's call with an overview of the business and recent developments for the company. I will then... view financial results for quarter and the full year. Following our prepared remarks, there will be a formal question and answer session. I would now like to turn the conference over to Sam Rubin. Sam, the floor is yours.

Thank you, operator.

Good afternoon to everyone and welcome to LightPath Technologies' first quarter fiscal 2025 financial results conference call. The first quarter of 2025 demonstrated our continued transformation from a pure component supplier to a system provider, delivering new products, contracts, and ongoing growth driven by these incremental product lines. Just over three years ago, we set on a fresh course with a new strategic direction, taking us from being a pure component supplier to a solutions provider. we've laid out three pillars of growth of which our business is built upon. The first is our proprietary cameras and optics. Second are solutions for government and defense. And the third are new commercial applications. For those not familiar with our history, I will provide a brief overview. Prior to this shift, Lightgraph has been, for the greater part of 30 years, an optical component provider. What many years ago was a unique technology, molded optics, has become now a crowded marketplace going through the classic transformation and commoditization. As a result, LightPath's core business was eroding, unit prices decreasing, with them margins and profits. In 2021, we set a course on a new strategic direction, one that leverages some of our key technologies to deliver subsystems and system-level solutions instead of simply just components, which drive higher ASPs and ultimately gross profit dollars. This transformation has been very successful for us, and in this quarter, we reported that 30% of our revenue came from those activities. This type of revenue was much less significant for us before we began going down this path. Through our investment in differentiated technology, we have positioned ourselves as a leader in the field of infrared optics. With an exclusive license from the government to commercialize new materials developed at the Naval Research Lab, as well as our partnership with Department of Defense, Defense Logistics Agencies, with the goal of replacing germanium in DoD applications, we are not only the go-to partner for anyone looking to phase out germanium, but have also earned ourselves a seat at the table at some of the most important discussions and projects in today's defense world. Four years ago, we could only have dreamt of being in such a position. Naturally, Since these are defense programs we're talking about, we're a bit limited in what we can share, but we will try to share as much as possible. Recently, the DoD, via Defense Logistics Agency Strategic Materials, has awarded us Phase II funding to support the qualification of additional new black diamond chalcogenide glasses as a substitute to germanium. Phase 1 was significant success, resulting in the qualification of several new proprietary black diamond materials. These materials are now designed into multiple programs of record and demonstrate significant additional value beyond simply replacing germanium. In Phase 2, we will continue working with DLA to qualify additional black diamond glasses to be included in DoD systems. The validation this represents cannot be understated, as it directly translates to new defense programs that rely on our glass, for which we are the exclusive supplier of record. During the quarter, we also received an initial development contract from a new European defense customer for the use of black diamond glass in optical systems. Additionally, we also received a follow-on order from a European defense customer for infrared assemblies for use in FPV, that is first-person view drone application. These orders are enabled by and are a validation of our recent efforts to obtain a European defense license and build capabilities at our Latvia facility, as well as highlight our growing recognition as a trusted supplier within NATO-aligned regions. As a reminder, more than 30% of our sales come from defense, most of those in the US. Obtaining the European defense license now opens the door for us to grow our defense business in Europe too. And those two recent wins are lead indicators to the success of this strategy. We expect to see significant growth coming from this market, European defense market, and some customers they are potentially turning into 10% customers. In addition to our investment in materials and differentiating technologies, we have also invested in development of our camera technologies. Just over a year ago, we completed the acquisition of Visamit Technologies, integrating their expertise with our proprietary materials to develop advanced thermal cameras and imaging systems. We have now built a portfolio of unique thermal cameras that have created a strong entry point for us in the system-level product and enables us to carve out a market share in a market estimated to be $9 billion of TAM and growing rapidly. Our efforts in the camera business, our first pillar of growth, are focused around LightPath's unique camera solutions. This started with the introduction of Mantis, an innovative broadband or multispectral infrared camera that is the first of its kind and enabled purely by our unique materials from NRS. Mantis opened doors with several high-profile customers, establishing our reputation for producing cameras that are not only groundbreaking in design, but also practical for applications in harsh and high-sensitivity environments. And with a price tag of $30,000, we're positioned as industry leaders from a cost-to-performance perspective. This is significant for future growth of the company, as selling hundreds of cameras at $30,000 each has a completely different math to our top-line growth than selling just the lenses that go into those cameras, which can cost about as little as a cup of coffee, which used to be our business model prior to this transformation. In addition, we recently launched our new optical gas imaging camera platform to detect fugitive gas emissions for oil and gas industry. The new OGI camera is specialized technology using infrared cameras to detect and visualize gas emitted such as methane in industrial settings. OGI cameras are capable of visualizing gas that are invisible to the naked eye. by detecting the infrared energy absorbed or emitted by those gases. The topic is of extreme importance to the oil and gas industry, both in the US and Europe, following new regulation curbing those emissions and imposing high penalties on operators. LightPath's purpose-built OGI camera leverages a non-germanium lens to improve upon current technologies by offering a cost-effective, higher sensitivity, and ultimately more effective solution. This OGI technology applies to other sectors as well, where we see the opportunity to launch additional incremental products, leveraging our know-how, all without incurring significant development expenses. On the government and defense side of the business, our second pillar, we've seen traction pick up significantly. Similar to the materials technology differentiators that already landed us one program of record, our technology differentiator has landed us the Lockheed Martin missile program. Under this program, we are developing a new camera system for Lockheed Martin that will be part of a missile system. Due to pressing needs from Xerox Army, the customer, the program is now on a very accelerated timeline. Though it started only a year ago, we have already achieved a worthy qualification of our subsystem and can begin shipping units for flight tests, which the team is currently working on. The Lockheed Martin program is potentially transformative for Lightpath. Not only is it exactly the type of business we were targeting in our new strategy, but the size of the opportunity can completely transform us. If Lockheed Martin wins against Raytheon, which they are competing against, we could expect to see revenues of between $50 million to $100 million a year once in full production. Though we are still in development, the progress of this project is so fast that Lockheed and the customer are already looking to start setting up for low-rate initial production next year, which is the last step before full production. For a company our size, with $35 million or so in revenue, a contract like this could completely transform us. And although there is a possibility that Lockheed will not win against Raytheon, we know that this technology we developed is so transformative and important that the same customer is already integrating it into at least two additional programs. I'll now turn to our third pillar of growth, which is new commercial applications, such as automotive. As those that follow us know, Lightbar has been working with several Tier 1 and Tier 2 automotive OEMs to develop and qualify thermal imaging solutions for use in ADAS. Per a new mandate set by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration by 2029, All new cars should include an emergency braking system that can identify pedestrians in pitch dark conditions from a certain distance. To achieve that, it appears that thermal imaging is going to be adopted into every new car, which means a significant addressable market opportunity. Ahead of those upcoming catalysts, We begin to strengthen our operational capabilities to support future growth. Subsequent to quarter end, we welcomed Steve Garcia as general manager of our Orlando manufacturing facility. Steve brings extensive operational experience in high-growth environments, and he will play a vital role in scaling our production processes to meet the increasing demand of our products, particularly for defense and industrial applications. His addition enhances our ability to support large mission critical programs while maintaining our commitment to quality and innovation. Now, I'd like to turn the call over to our CFO Al Miranda to talk about our first quarter fiscal financial results. Al, please go ahead.

Thank you, Sam. I will keep my review to a very succinct highlight of the financials this quarter. As a reminder, Much of the information we're discussing during this call was also included in our press release issued earlier today and will be included in the 10Q for the period. I encourage you to visit our website to access these documents. Revenue for the first quarter of fiscal 2025 increased 4% to $8.4 million as compared to $8.1 million in the same year-ago quarter. Sales of infrared components were 2.6 million or 31% of the company consolidated revenue. Revenue from visible components was 3.3 million or 39%. Revenue from assemblies and modules were 1.1 million or 13%. And revenue from engineering services was 1.4 million or 17%. Gross profit increased 22% to 2.8 million or percent of total revenues in the first quarter of 2025 as compared to 2.3 million, or 29 percent of total revenues in the same year-ago quarter. The increase in gross margin as a percentage of revenue was primarily driven by a more favorable product mix weighted towards visible component sales and assemblies and modules, which typically have higher gross margins than infrared components. Operating expenses increased 23 percent to 3.3 million for the first quarter of fiscal 2025, as compared to approximately 2.7 million in the same year-ago quarter. The increase in operating expenses were primarily due to an increase in legal and consulting fees related to business development initiatives, as well as increases in sales and marketing spend to promote new products. Net loss in the first quarter of fiscal 2025 totaled $1.6 million or $0.04 per basic and diluted shares as compared to $1.3 million or $0.04 per basic and diluted share in the same year-ago quarter. The increase in net loss was primarily attributable to higher legal and consulting expenses related to business development initiatives. EBITDA loss, a non-GAAP term, for the quarter ended September 30th, 2024 was approximately 0.5 million compared to a loss of 0.4 million for the same period of the prior fiscal year. The decrease in EBITDA in the first quarter of fiscal 2025 was primarily attributable to the previously mentioned additional legal and consulting expenses related to business development initiatives. Cash and cash equivalents as of September 30th, 2024 totaled 4.3 million as compared to 3.5 million as of June 30th, 2024. As of September 30th, 2024, total debt stood at 3.9 million and backlog totaled 21 million. In closing, I view our performance in Q1 as a strong indicator of the solid footing and growth trajectory of LIPAT. Financial results underscore the progress of our strategic investments with positive impacts on revenue, margin improvements, and steady pipeline. We remain focused on executing this strategy with discipline and delivering value to our shareholders as we scale and grow. With that, I will turn the call back to Sam for some closing remarks.

Thank you everyone for taking the time today to attend our call. Looking ahead, we will continue to drive the future of imaging as seen through our proprietary black diamond optics, leveraging our clear advantage in capabilities as compared to legacy germanium-based solutions. With defined catalysts in automotive, defense, and camera solutions market, I have never been more confident in our path ahead. As we move into 2025, our team firmly believes that we are well positioned to continue our transformation and build sustainable value for our shareholders over the long term. With that, I'll turn the call over to the operator to begin the questions and answers session. Operator?

Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. Should you have a question, please press star followed by one on your touchtone phone. You will hear a prompt that your hand has been raised. Should you wish to decline from the polling process, please press star followed by two. If you're using a speakerphone, please lift the handset before pressing any keys. First question comes from Jason Schmidt with Lake Street. Please go ahead.

Hey guys, thanks for taking my questions and congrats on the strong results. I want to start with the European market because it sounds like you guys are seeing some pretty significant traction there. Sam, I just want to clarify your comments on some of these customers maybe eclipsing that 10% threshold. Did you provide a timeline on when that could occur?

Yeah, good to hear from you, and thanks for the question. I think the European defense market, unfortunately, has timelines similar to the U.S. defense market, maybe sometimes a little bit faster. So when we talk, for example, about large programs, it's pretty much the same cycle as in the U.S. Initial development, prototypes, low-rate initial production, and then into production, which can often be two years or so. Most of the times we report about it when we're already well into the program. So naturally, we don't report about it when we just get an inquiry or start working on it. So I'd say in most cases, it's up to one year from the moment we report about it until we start seeing some real production level orders. The FBB drone might be the exception there, where it is actually something where it is not one of those large defense programs that has to go through enormous qualification. It's actually more of those technologies where armies around the world are trying to move faster and adopt commercial solutions. to be able to get them in faster. So the FPP might turn into revenue or is turning into revenue much faster.

Okay, great. And is the sales team and sales channel in that market fully built out or do you still need some work there?

I'd say we have a pretty strong sales team there. Maybe there's some sales channels where in the defense spot in certain countries, we need local partners. So even though EU is the EU and spending within the EU and our defense license covers the entire EU, certain countries want to do more local purchasing or want you to have a local partner. So there could be countries where we'll be signing up distributors, could be countries outside EU such as Turkey and the UK where we will need distributors just because of the way things are there.

Okay, that makes sense. And last one from me, and I'll jump back into Q. Any update on how you're thinking about the timeline for the Lockheed decision?

No significant changes on our side. I mean, as we said, we received the airworthy qualification, which we're very proud of, and I'm immensely proud of the team in Texas for everything they've done there. We're building flightworthy units right now, and, you know, The timeline is fluidic, but we're still, you know, hoping to get some indications around the coming September, October timeframe.

Perfect.

Thanks a lot, guys. Thank you.

Your next question comes from Glenn Madsen with Leidenberg. Please go ahead.

Hi. Thanks for taking the question, and congrats on the results. The top line was a little better than I expected. You know, curious, as it comes to kind of the camera business, the assemblies and modules, you know, in my projections, I have kind of a strong back half kind of built on the sales funnel having grown from all these new products and the efforts you're making. You know, is that still –

uh reasonable do you still feel like that that that channel is that funnel is building and that that um that that you're seeing a good response from the customers that are set there yeah definitely i'd say um the camera business is one that for the most part can move faster into translate into revenue a lot of it is from the industrial commercial space so furnaces and high temperature process monitoring so with them it's more driven by their budget cycles. So come end of year now, there's some end of year spending, but we suspect most of it is going into next year's budgets, which means January to June, we'll be seeing a lot of those orders and deliveries. Even on the defense side of cameras, it is more of a faster cycle than some of the large defense programs, with the exception, of course, of the Lockheed Project, which is a a very, very customized long-term project. Even when we're providing cameras, say, to drones and so on, the turnaround cycles are very fast. The DoD is making tremendous efforts to adopt commercial technologies or dual-use technologies faster, and we're gaining from that. So we're benefiting from that wealth.

Great. Maybe I missed it on multiple calls, but in the past you've mentioned the other defense program that you're working on. I believe it's like a helicopter, Apache maybe, helicopter application. Is there an update there that you could share?

We're working on the initial prototypes. Small delays, but nothing major. So I'd say the team is doing very well there. Great.

Sorry, go ahead, Sam.

No, I was going to say no significant update, unfortunately.

Yep. And then, especially the second quarter in a row, you mentioned two additional programs with Lockheed. Is there any color you can give further in terms of timeline or –

So these programs, actually, we don't know that much about them. We don't always know the full details of the programs. But we know we're there with the same groups at Lockheed of missile and fire control. They're earlier stage than the large missile program, and they will not be as high a volume as that. But they're moving along, and we feel confident that Lockheed is really looking at that as the ultimate solution for those programs.

Great. Thank you. Last one for me. I know this is not really a fair question. I know it's been two days, but there's real politics. There's the new administration is maybe tough on China, maybe a little more friendly with Russia. There's the two sources of germanium. Can you just talk about if there's any initial thoughts as to what it all means for you guys?

I don't expect that to impact the Germanium part as much. I mean, Russia is still going to be, I'm assuming, still going to be sanctioned, and China is still going to try and use Germanium as the leverage in trading. So I don't expect or foresee, we're not planning on any significant changes there. We've already, just as a reminder, proactively significantly reduced our exposure to Germanium by canceling a few multimillion-dollar orders a year and a half ago or so. So we already, you know, took actions towards that. I think, if anything, the results of the election might increase some defense spending around the world, and defense now is a, you know, close to going on going to be 50% of our business at some point. So that's probably good for us.

Right, right. Okay, thanks, Sam. Thank you.

Next question comes from Scott Buck with HC Wainwright. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon, guys. Thanks for taking my questions. I think I saw you reached a qualification milestone with Lockheed in the quarter. Is there revenue attached to that that was in the $8.4 million?

Not specific to the qualification milestone.

We recognize Lockheed revenue throughout the quarter. Did we have? What's that?

Yeah, we did.

We did. Oh, sorry. We did have some revenues there. That shows in the engineering services group? Yes.

It's in engineering services, Scott.

Okay.

It doesn't sound like it was a huge number. It was about a million. Okay. Okay. Great. I appreciate that. And second, on some of these larger potential wins, and I'm thinking Lockheed specifically, but we can broaden it out, how should we think about the gross margin on those opportunities versus, you know, kind of today's consolidated margin?

So those are government programs and there's government accounting associated to them. So government dictates the gross margin pretty much as I think it's something like 25%. But their baseline of 25% of what is sort of includes management fees, SG&A, and so on. So it's probably a bit too early to translate it into what it would look like in our gross margins. But my rough guess, Al, somewhere between 30% to 40%.

Absolutely.

Definitely between 30% and 40%. Okay, perfect. Well, that's it for me, guys. I appreciate the time. Thank you. Thank you.

Your next question comes from Brian Kinslinger with Alliance Global Partners. Please go ahead.

Great, thanks. I got a couple of questions. Did I hear correctly, now that you've got multiple cameras, you think adoption begins to pick up and orders begin to pick up about 12 to 18 months from now? Is that how I understood your response to one of those questions?

No, I meant that January of this year, when on the commercial industrial side, when new budgets of those power plants and utilities and so on come into effect on January 1st, we know for a fact that we have quite a few customers that have budgeted our cameras into the next year, meaning calendar 2025. So we expect over the next seven to eight months to start seeing a pickup in that.

Is there any way to quantify what that, I mean, is that 10% of revenue, do you think, 20% of revenue? How do you think, given those ticket sizes, is there any way to quantify it?

Yeah, I'd say, look, if we look at the product groups of assemblies and engineering services sort of bundled together, that has gone up to about 30% of our revenue in this quarter. I could definitely see that going up to as much as 50% over the next few quarters. Got it. Great. This is our future and where the growth is coming from, by far.

And maybe I'm drawing a blank. Maybe it was answered last quarter, so I apologize. That large customer that has gone away for you for now. Are they still evaluating black diamond materials? And if so, is there a reasonable timeframe to expect adoption? Sorry if I forget to answer that.

No, you're absolutely right. We haven't spoken about it in a while. Actually, I was at that customer a couple of weeks ago and working out a plan with them on both getting black diamond into their systems to replace germanium. They have not yet done that. as well as a few other long-term strategic things we're working on together. So I'm very hopeful that that customer is going to come back and we're going to win them back. And it's a very, very significant potential. As a reminder, that customer used to be anywhere between $4 to $6 million a year for us.

But from your comments, you're not quite that confident yet. You're still working on trying to get that done.

There's quite a bit that needs to be done on their side as well. We're working closely together, and I think for us, that's the most important part. It's a very collaborative effort.

Okay. And then how long do you expect phase two of the testing? I think it's with DLA. How long do you see that lasting? And then is the next phase moving into production?

Well, production starts every time we qualify a material. So BDNL 4 was qualified and is in production. BDNL 6 and 8, we actually have not announced them as qualified formally. But realistically, they are already embedded in a couple of programs of records. We just haven't done that in an official manner. But from DLA's point of view, that qualification is finished. The next six glasses DLA is paying for the qualification, The project is defined to be up to 24 months, but we suspect it could be sooner than that.

Okay. Now, backlog is relatively flat year over year. However, I get the sense from you and Al's comments that you're confident that you're going to begin to grow revenue a little faster. Is that because some of these orders don't flow through backlog, so we'll never really see them in backlog? Just reconcile the flat backlog with the accelerated pace of growth, please.

Yeah, definitely. So you're absolutely right. A lot of the camera business is what we'd call book and turn. We have sub-assemblies of them ready. We have modules, and we can turn a camera around and ship it within two to three weeks. And with unit prices of $10,000 to $30,000 for the cameras, that can be pretty significant in some of the book in turn. In addition, I want to just remind, we're looking at the backlog. It's flat year over year. Up until about a year ago, we had our sports gun site companies, the same one we mentioned. In the backlog, right about every November, they would come in with a renewal that was between $4 million to $6 million. So we're flat, quote, unquote, without what used to be a $4 million to $6 million customer. So it is actually a growth of all the other businesses outside that customer.

Can you remind me when that customer last made that order so we can kind of take a look at that?

So about a year ago, I think about a year ago is when we… Their last order was… No, about a year ago, we canceled the Joe Moon grant and did not renew it.

Right, so the order fell off.

About a year ago. About a year ago. Yeah, so the flat backlog doesn't reflect either side probably of that order. There was probably a billion and a half left in there from previous orders. Got it.

Yeah.

My last question is, yeah. As you look at the backlog, two questions for that, which is the non-basically camera business. How much of that generally gets recognized in 12 months? And the second part of the question is, how do you see the mix of products in terms of margin profile or product? Can you kind of give us any direction on that?

So most of the backlog is between you know, ages out in 12 to 15-month timeframes. We don't have a lot, Brian. It goes past 15 months on the backlog.

Great. In terms of the mix, maybe, my last question?

The mix is more heavily weighted towards sort of the visible components and some of the visible infrared components, the component business, and some of the simple assemblies like doublets. For the bigger things, like Sam's talking about the cameras, we will get, at best, a three-month order.

Great. Thanks so much, guys.

Your next question comes from Oren Hirschman with AIGH Investment Partners. Please go ahead.

Hi. Congratulations on the progress. I just want to hear more about the go-to market for the infrared industrial cameras and the timing, and if you've seen any early traction, even if they're not huge dollars, but multiple orders.

Yeah, definitely. So the go-to market strategy has changed or evolved roughly half a year ago when we were joined with Jason Messerschmidt that came from FLIR. Jason was in charge of all North American sales at FLIR, a few hundreds of millions of dollars. He's a very heavyweight in the world of cameras and has really developed a go-to-market strategy and team here. That included recruiting a couple of people to that, both from FLIR and from other industrial applications, people that live and breathe that oil and gas, and sorry, no pun intended about breathing the oil and gas, but... But they know that world inside out. In fact, actually, we just finished today a one-day session on the go-to-market strategy for the next few weeks. Traction, because of that, is much faster than what we're used to. Meaning, when we announce a product like the methane detection cameras that we announced three weeks ago, that is already after Jason Messerschmidt and Rich and Chris and the go-to-market teams focuses on that segment, have already been at customer sites testing and validating it. So most of the time, by the time we announce a new product in the oil and gas, it has already some customers behind it. Now, from there, going and scaling it up is much easier because most of those times, those customers are distributors or integrators that then cover a specific geography or area. So, for example, the first furnace cameras that we shipped out were to an integrator in the southeast that we know has already quite a number of orders coming right as soon as their customers' capital budget goes into effect on January 1st. So I think this is something we're very positive on. We're able to move into... large chunks of revenue much faster when it comes to those cameras once we've already validated them at a customer.

Great. Hey, thanks very much. Thank you.

Next question comes from Gene Inger with IngerLadder.com. Please go ahead.

Hi, Sam and Al. Keeping up the good work, and of course, we're all Looking forward to what happens with Lockheed in the next year or so. May I ask you guys, I don't know if you can say specifically if you're involved with the sustainment $200 million contract for Project Longbow. You probably know what that is related to the Apache or AH-64. But that's also with Northrop Grumman, not Lockheed. Does that involve you guys?

Yeah, well, first of all, a lot of those programs, the Apache modernization being one of them, there is one lead prime, but then could be multiple other subprimes. So I can't comment specifically on this prime or that prime, but I would say that every time there's a project that talks about modernization or an existing platform like the Apache in this example, you can assume that the big part of the modernization is bringing the electro-optic systems up to speed. And actually, if you look at the DOD budget, the modernization of the Apache actually has a line item that talks about the electro-optic systems. So I'd leave it at that.

Okay. Well, I know also Poland is buying 70 of them. And the Netherlands has been okayed to have this new fire control target acquisition radar system. So I was wondering, you know, if that provides incremental additional business for you guys. I hope that it does. And whether it does for Latvia or would this be just Orlando made materials?

Okay, so two parts to that. First of all, it will, but it will in the long term. The way it works with those programs is that the foreign sales, the foreign customers get any upgrade like this well after the U.S. So if we are working on such a program, I would say we would be providing it for at least five years to the U.S. helicopters before it made its way to any of the foreign customers, as friendly as they are.

Without trying to be nosy, I had, I'm sorry, I interrupted you. You were not finished. I'm sorry. No, please go ahead. It's fine. Okay. I was, the reason I brought up helicopters, I'm concerned that if we go into laser warfare, and especially intercepting drones, that's going to become increasingly something that companies are looking at. Although I don't know, you might know the answer, how they can move lasers because the drones and incoming missiles these days can be maneuvered, and typically a laser shoots in a straight line. But with that said, a helicopter is not a really great platform in terms of it has vulnerability. So I'm wondering whether your lenses and your glass can be coded, for example, in some way that it will deflect or reflect laser and provide a countermeasure in and of itself to laser beams?

Well, I can't comment on a specific technology like that. I would say if our lenses or anything would deflect the laser, they would also deflect other parts of the light spectrum, and therefore making that helicopter actually more visible than the customer or user would wish for it to be. So I'm not sure if that specifically would happen. But I just want to circle back to the second half of your previous question regarding Latvia. Specifically, if we provide, if we were to provide any systems that then go into Apache that then get upgraded to Europe, they would still go through the U.S. It would always be built in the U.S. and shipped out to the customers. I appreciate that. The Latvia region does not play a role in this.

Apologies if I got too detailed. And my final question would be regarding space, which you haven't mentioned. I've also been seeing that there are new developments which are focused on collision avoidance of debris through satellites or defensive measures if one of our satellites is being targeted, such as an effort to disrupt communications. You have acknowledged that you're involved in space communications, whether it's Starlink or somebody else. And I'm wondering whether the new approach of basically LIDAR in space to give proximity and manage space better, let's just call it management, has involved you guys.

I'm not aware of us being directly involved in that, but it's very possible that through one of our LIDAR customers we are. We work with multiple different companies that work on LIDAR automotive and other LIDARs. So we might be indirectly involved in it, but I'm not familiar with that.

Anyway, I look forward to hopefully a successful year. Sam, you and I, you've done a tremendous job of changing around necessarily the direction of the company, and I welcome that.

Thank you, Gene. Thank you, Gene. Thank you.

There are no further questions. Please continue.

Thank you, operator. And thank you again to each of you for joining us on today's earning conference call. We look forward to continuing to update you on our progress and great results. And we strive to deliver value to our valued shareholders.

Thank you and goodbye.

Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.