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spk01: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the MYR Group fourth quarter and full year 2021 earnings results conference call. Today's conference is being recorded. At this time, for opening remarks and introductions, I would like to turn the conference over to David Gutierrez of Dresdner Corporate Services. Please go ahead, David.
spk09: Thank you, and good morning, everyone. I'd like to welcome you to the MYR Group conference call to discuss the company's fourth quarter earnings and full year results for 2021, which were reported yesterday. Joining us on today's call are Rick Schwartz, President and Chief Executive Officer. Betty Johnson, Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. Todd Cooper, Senior Vice President and Chief Operating Officer of MYR Group's Transmission and Distribution segment. And Jeff Wanaka, Senior Vice President and Chief Operating Officer of MYR Group's Commercial and Industrial segment. If you did not receive yesterday's press release, please contact Dresdner Corporate Services at 312-726-3600 and we will send you a copy or go to the MYR Group website where a copy is available under the Investor Relations tab. Also, a replay of today's call will be available until Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 11 a.m. Mountain Time. Please call 855-859- or 404-537-3406 and enter conference ID 8097179. Before we begin, I want to remind you that this discussion may contain forward-looking statements. Any such statements are based upon information available to MYR Group's management as of this date, and MYR Group assumes no obligation to update any such forward-looking statements. These forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties that could cause actual material results to differ materially from the forward-looking statements. Accordingly, these statements are no guarantee of future performance. These risks and uncertainties are discussed in the company's annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2021, and in yesterday's press release. Certain non-GAAP financial information will be discussed on the call today. A reconciliation of these non-GAAP measures to the most comparable GAAP measures is set forth in yesterday's press release. With that said, let me turn the call over to Rick Schwartz.
spk08: Thanks, David. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to our fourth quarter and full year 2021 conference call to discuss financial and operational results. I will begin by providing a summary of the fourth quarter and full year results, and then we'll turn the call over to Betty Johnson, our Chief Financial Officer, for a more detailed financial review. Following Betty's overview, Todd Cooper and Jeff Wanaka, Chief Operating Officers for our T&D and C&I segments, will provide a summary of our segment's performance and discuss some of our MRR Group's opportunities going forward. I will conclude today's call with some closing remarks and open the call up for your questions. We finished 2021 with strong financial performance in the fourth quarter and full-year revenues of $2.5 billion. setting a record high for the seventh consecutive year. Our backlog of $1.79 billion at the end of 2021 reflects continued investment in infrastructure and energy projects and positions us well for the year ahead. Our accomplishments this year reflect both our organizational and operational resilience and the strength of our long-lasting relationships and multi-year service agreements. Trends in the energy market point to continued investment in clean energy and improving grid resiliency. We believe this positions us well for success in 2022. Our CNI segment continues to be fueled by investments in infrastructure to support clean energy, healthcare, high-tech manufacturing, data centers, and water wastewater treatment facilities. Our T&D segment continues to execute transmission, distribution, substation, and clean energy projects of varied size, location, and capacity. We continue to grow our business through both organic growth and acquisitions. Our recent purchase of the power line companies headquartered in Toronto extends our presence into eastern Canada and enhances our abilities to capture and execute new projects in a new geography. We are uniquely positioned to offer our clients comprehensive solutions for a broad range of complex projects. We continually leverage the ingenuity and passion of our team members to elevate the safety, quality, and cost competitiveness of our project delivery. We believe MYR Group is well positioned to maintain our status as an industry leader, and we are proud of our fourth quarter and 2021 full-year performance. which we expect to serve as a solid foundation for future growth opportunities and continued stockholder value. Now, Betty will provide details on our fourth quarter and full year 2021 financial results.
spk00: Thank you. Thank you, Rick, and good morning, everyone. On today's call, I will be reviewing our quarter-over-quarter results for the fourth quarter of 2021 as compared to the fourth quarter of 2020. Our fourth quarter 2021 revenues were $646 million. This represents an increase of $38 million, or 6.3%, compared to the same period last year. Our fourth quarter T&D revenues were $353.3 million, a record high for our T&D segment, with an increase of 10.9% compared to the same period last year. The breakdown of T&D revenues with $218.2 million for transmission and $135.1 million for distribution. The T&D segment revenues increased primarily due to an increase in revenue on distribution projects and large sites projects. Approximately 50% of our fourth quarter T&D revenues related to work performed under master service agreements. T&I revenues were $292.7 million with an increase of 1.2% compared to the same period last year. Our gross margin was 12.9% for the fourth quarter of 2021, compared to 12.6% for the same period last year. The increase in gross margin was primarily due to better-than-anticipated productivity on certain projects, favorable job closeouts, and favorable change orders on certain projects. These improvements were partially offset by labor and equipment inefficiencies in certain projects and an unfavorable change order adjustment on a project. Additionally, gross margin during the fourth quarter of 2021 was negatively impacted in certain geographic areas by an increase in project restriction and disruptions related to the COVID-19 pandemic. SG&A expenses were $52.6 million an increase of $1.8 million compared to the same period last year. The increase was primarily due to an increase in employee-related expenses to support the growth in our operations, partially offset by a decrease in employee incentive compensation costs. Fourth quarter 2021 net income was $20.7 million for $1.20 per diluted share. compared to $18.2 million, or $1.07 per diluted share, for the same period last year. Fourth quarter 2021 EBITDA was $41.4 million, compared to $37.2 million for the same period last year. Total backlog as of December 30, 2021, was $1.79 billion, a record high, and was 8.5% higher than a year ago. Total backlog as of December 31, 2021, consisted of $676.1 million for our T&D segment and a record high of $1.1 billion for our C&I segment. As Rick mentioned earlier, on January 4, we completed the acquisition of Powerline Plus Companies. Over the last two years, we combined average annual revenues of Powerline Plus companies were approximately $80 million. The purchase price was approximately $114 million, which was subject to working capital and net asset adjustments and was funded through a combination of cash on hand and borrowings under our credit facility. We may also pay additional contingent consideration based upon the achievements of certain financial performance targets. Additionally, we do not expect the Powerline Plus companies to be accretive to EPS in 2022, mainly due to the high amortization of intangibles this year. Moving to liquidity in our balance sheet, we had approximately $249.8 million of working capital, $4.5 million of funded debt, and $362.7 million of borrowings available under our credit facility as of December 31, 2021. Our funded debt-to-EBITDA leverage ratio has continued to stay strong at 0.03 times leverage as of December 31, 2021. We believe that our credit facility, strong balance sheet, and future cash flow from operations will enable us to meet our working capital needs, equipment investments, and growth initiatives. In summary, we had improvements this quarter in revenue, gross profit, net income, earnings per share, EBITDA, and backlog to the prior year. This strong quarter also enabled us to reach record annual revenues of $2.5 billion with record highs in both our T&D and C&I segments. For the year ended December 31st, 2021, we also reached record net income of $85 million and record EBITDA of $164.2 million. Our 2021 earnings per diluted share also reached a record of $4.95, an increase of 42% from the full prior year. I'll now turn the call over to Todd Cooper, who will provide an overview of our transmission and distribution segment.
spk07: Thanks, Betty. Good morning, everyone. Our T&D segment performed well in 2021 as our companies continued to strengthen and expand their market presence. We remain focused on aging infrastructure, system hardening, grid reliability, and clean energy projects that are helping clients meet decarbonization goals. We believe there are abundant opportunities for sustained growth in this dynamic market and will continue investing in expanding and developing our customer base. We are pleased to welcome the Powerline companies to our T&D business to bring a strong market presence in Toronto and the surrounding area, which we will work to build upon in the years to come by supporting their efforts to serve existing customers and gain new customers in the region. Their culture and values align closely with ours, and we look forward to their future success. MYR Group companies are known for our commitment to supporting customers, especially when an emergency arises. Our crews recently answered the call for help from Xcel Energy in responding to the Marshall Fire restoration effort in Colorado. In excess of 200 Sturgeon Electric employee team members worked tirelessly on overhead and underground electrical and gas distribution systems to help restore power to customers as quickly and safely as possible. We are grateful for these and all of our dedicated employees who make a difference every day. In addition to our ongoing alliance work with Xcel Energy, Sturgeon Electric is supporting Evergy, Tucson Electric Power, Arizona Public Service, Rocky Mountain Power, Southern California Edison, and others in maintaining and expanding their T&D operations. MYR Energy Services, or MYRE, experienced robust activity in the solar space, signed multiple ETC solar contracts in the fourth quarter, and is also engaged in preliminary engineering on two additional solar projects. Additionally, we are excited to announce the award of a large transmission project for MYRE's large projects group. The transmission project, with an approximate value of $150 million, is expected to kick off in spring of 2022 with completion in late 2023. This project is not reflected in our year-end 2021 backlog. Great Southwestern Construction maintains a strong presence in the ongoing relationships with several customers, including Encore Electric, Entergy, NextEra, and Duke Energy. Substation work is also increasing, with a recent award of seven projects related to solar farm installations. The eastern region of our T&D business remains strong with consistent project opportunities with many long-time customers. In the Midwest, the Ellie Myers Company recently executed multi-year agreements, which provide growth opportunities in the region. And in Illinois, we achieved substantial completion of Ameren's Gateway project. Harlan Electric continued its strong performance in 2021 and recently executed a two-year extension with Pike County Electric for distribution work. The ES Boulas team, which performs both CNI and TMD work in the northeast, had a strong year as well and expanded its capabilities in the clean energy space through the award and ongoing construction of four solar projects. In summary, we are proud of our accomplishments in the fourth quarter and all of 2021. Our teams maintain a strong focus on safety and project execution, positioning us as a strong partner in the T&D industry for many years to come. I will now turn the call over to Jeff Wanaka, who will provide an outlook on our commercial and industrial segment.
spk03: Thank you, Todd. Good morning, everyone. Our CNI segment performed well in 2021 as we safely worked our way through the year and continued building on a solid foundation of strong relationships. Backlog increased through the year as we captured desirable projects in transportation, clean energy, healthcare, high-tech manufacturing, data centers, and water-wastewater treatment. As we finish the fourth quarter of 2021 and enter into 2022, several of our district locations have experienced increased COVID project restrictions and disruptions. We believe some of our C&I district locations will continue facing this disruption in the near term and anticipate it will ease in the second half of the year. We are encouraged to see the major indices, such as the Architectural Billing Index and the Dodge Momentum Index, trending upward throughout the year. Although the index followed an erratic sawtooth pattern in 2021, Overall, the Momentum Index increased 23%, the strongest yearly gain since 2005. Both commercial and institutional components of the Momentum Index had similar gains, with their levels of activity reaching 13- and 14-year highs, respectively. Although 2021 growth in indices was impressive, recent monthly declines in December and January are indicative of general COVID disruption impacting the industry. While the improvements of the indices provide a measure of confidence, feedback from our clients provides more reliable confidence that our chosen markets are sound. Large healthcare projects typically involve a long timeline from concept to a complete operational facility. And we believe that based on the number of opportunities we see in the pipeline, the fundamental need for new facilities has not changed. Our district offices are engaged in pursuits of all sizes, from small, medium, and large expansions to new greenfield facilities. Phase I awards for design and scheduling services have gone well, leading to confidence in future awards for Phase II construction services. High-tech data centers remain a major focus for many of our district offices, with notable opportunities for our subsidiary, Sturgeon Electric, in Arizona, Nevada, and Colorado. Trusted relationships with long-standing clients lead to early engagement, many times before the project hits the open market. The nation's increasing demand for computing power, data security, and e-commerce should continue to provide significant opportunity in 2022 and beyond. Clean energy projects continue to provide ample opportunity for continued growth in the majority of our CNI districts. This is especially true for CSI Electric. where solar projects in the planning phase could soon be under contract. In addition, electric vehicle or EV charging stations continue to be a hot topic in the industry, with dealerships across the nation grappling with the need to modernize their facilities. This burgeoning need to dramatically increase power capacity and communication networks will continue gaining momentum as the nation's businesses turn their attention toward an all-electric and autonomous fleet. To conclude, the performance achieved by our employees throughout a unique and challenging year was admirable. Their continued dedication and outstanding efforts provided consistent results while improving the services we provide in numerous ways. As the headwinds from the pandemic continue to fade, our efforts to strengthen our capabilities are expected to provide greater opportunity for years to come. Thanks, everyone, for your time today. I'll now turn the call back to Rick to provide us with some closing comments.
spk08: Thank you for those updates, Betty, Todd, and Jeff. Our fourth quarter and full year 2021 performance demonstrates the strength of our business strategies and operations. MYR Group is recognized as a leading partner in our industry, which provides us the foundation to capture new opportunities, grow our business, and provide our clients with outstanding value. We are encouraged by the numerous opportunities the market holds in both of our segments. Our success in 2021 is the result of our dedicated and talented team from coast to coast, whom I would like to sincerely thank. I would also like to extend a thank you to our clients for their continued trust and to our stockholders for your ongoing support. I look forward to working with all of you to continue our success in 2022 and beyond. Operator, we are now ready to open the call up for your comments and questions.
spk01: Ladies and gentlemen, if you have a question or comment at this time, please press star then 1 on your telephone keypad. If your question has been answered or you wish to remove yourself from the queue, simply press the pound key. Again, if you have a question or comment at this time, please press star then 1 on your telephone keypad. Our first question or comment comes from the line of Sean Eastman from KeyBank Capital. Your line is open.
spk05: Sean Eastman Hi, this is Alassan for Sean. Thanks for taking our questions.
spk08: Sean Eastman Morning.
spk05: Sean Eastman Good morning. Can you give us an update on the large solar EPC project that was awarded to CSI in October? I think you had previously said this was going to start mid-year and ramp in the back half of the year. But I'm just wondering if there's any risk to that timeline, given what's going on with the solar supply chain. And then also, given the contract has bumped some, is there any cost risk around inflation?
spk08: Okay. There are a couple items there. So, first of all, yeah, the projects right now, proceeding as planned, I would say supply chain hasn't affected that project so far, and we were able to price in certain components as the project developed. So we don't see a lot of risk on that side. I think, you know, as you get closer to the project hitting the ground and taking off, there's always the chance, does all the permitting come in place? Does that side really, you know, everything get finalized on the date? Right now it's proceeding forward. That's the only thing that could push that back. But from a standpoint of material, we haven't seen any impacts at this point.
spk05: Got it. And staying on C&I, can you give us an update on the lower margin CNI projects rolling off and when do those complete? And is there anything in the portfolio that we should have in our notes that could prevent MYRG from achieving at least the midpoint of the 4% to 6% range this year?
spk08: No, we've been operating on that lower side of it. I think, you know, and I'll let Jeff add to this in a second. I think when you look at, you know, just the normal COVID impacts, it really hasn't affected our T&D business by, you know, any point really because those crews are out by themselves. They're working independently. They're outside. When you get to the CNI side, though we haven't had big project delays, just the coordination that side of the project, some of the COVID restrictions and supply chains with other subcontractors or that other subcontractors may be experienced of getting steel in and some of those items can push a schedule out a little bit, which has a slight impact on our revenue burn. We haven't had any big write-downs by any means, but, I mean, you're always having impacts, both positive and negative. And, you know, in a given quarter, we may have a little more impacts, depending on where the project stands at a given time. As far as some of our lower-margin projects that are burning off, those will probably go into, you know, the beginning of the second half of this year as those finish up, for the most part. But other than that, we still see an active market. Jeff, anything you want to add?
spk03: Rick, I think you answered it well. There's clearly been some minor impact through the whole COVID pandemic. We do see some of those hopefully easing, as we said in the script, toward the latter half of the year. But there's a lot to be determined there still.
spk05: Thanks for the help. I'll hop back in the queue. Okay, thank you.
spk01: Thank you. Our next question or comment comes from the line of Noel Diltz from Stiefel. Your line is open.
spk04: Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my questions. Sorry if I missed this, but could you talk about a little, expand on how we should think about the margin profile of Powerline Plus, and could you also discuss how you're thinking about M&A for 2022 and your appetite at this point? Thanks.
spk08: I'll start with M&A, and then I'll let Betty go into a little bit on Powerline. You know, I think we've been, for the last few years or the last five, six years, we've been actively pursuing acquisitions. For us, we don't have to do an acquisition. We've been growing our business nicely from an organic standpoint. We want to do acquisitions, but, again, we're going to be patient. We're going to find that right fit. We're going to make sure the culture is right, and it's going to be additive to our business. So, again, we're patient. but we're very interested in doing acquisitions. Betty, you want to cover the power line side a little bit?
spk00: Yeah, excluding any of the amortizations, that would be a one-time, the first year, one-year amortization of the intangibles for backlogs. The power line plus would be square in the typical T&D margins on the upper ends of our ranges, you know, solidly. or overall for their normal ongoing business for the amortization. Hence the comment about for 2022 not being creative in 2022. Once that goes away, they will act a typical contribution for the T&D business.
spk04: Okay, perfect. Thank you. And then Could you discuss – I guess I've heard a little bit of discussion on the T&D side that – I've heard examples of, you know, some folks having trouble kind of holding on to labor, where folks may be kind of jumping from job to job. Is that something that you guys are seeing or experiencing at all or having to take any action to kind of avoid those types of issues? Todd, do you want to take that?
spk07: Yeah, I'll take that, Rick. I think – It does exist. You're right. There's a tremendous amount of need for what's going on with the drivers being so positive in the marketplace. And, you know, I think that one of the benefits that we've seen or we've had over the years is our ability as being a nationwide contractor to move employees and not have any downtime with those employees. It's competitive out there right now, but, you know, a majority of our projects being in that three- to six-month range, with the exception of some of the medium-sized and large-sized projects, you know, we're able to price in what it takes to be competitive as well as make sure that our employees are satisfied. But I don't want anyone to think that it's not something we work on constantly. Recruiting and employee retention are are two big drivers for us, and that's why our focus on safety and training is so important. Our employees really appreciate that, and it tends to curb some of that jumping around from contractor to contractor, at least for us.
spk04: Thanks. That's very helpful.
spk01: Thank you. Our next question or comment comes from the line of Brian Russo from Sedoti. Your line is open.
spk06: Hi. Good morning.
spk08: Good morning.
spk06: Hey, you mentioned that a new transmission project award, I think north of $150 million. Any idea, could you tell us, you know, what region of the country that is located in? And then maybe segue into any thoughts on, you know, the MISO MTEP 21, future one, you know, forecast for nearly $30 billion of transmission investments by 2039? How's your positioning and competitive positioning in that market?
spk07: I'll start, Rick, on that. The project is in the eastern half of the U.S. with one of our traditionally strong customers. We're excited about that opportunity. It gives us the the ability to continue forward and springboard off of projects we've been completing in the region this project's on. As far as the MISA situation, we continue to monitor that. We're working with the developers in the region and utilities as well to track upcoming projects and where things are going. It's not a fast-moving process at this point in time, but there are certainly opportunities out there that we see could come to fruition here in the next couple of years.
spk08: Yeah, and on the MISO side, I think that just adds to the resiliency of the market and the overall, you know, future of the markets we play in, and we see it as a very positive thing going forward. So, again, additive to what we do.
spk06: Okay, great. And then to switch to the CNI side, you know, you mentioned COVID restrictions that will linger through the first half of 2022, right? Are you also referring to any supply chain issues or labor availability or raw material inflation? Or is that, you know, a separate headwind from, you know, the general COVID restrictions and, you know, limited work time, et cetera, that we've seen over the past two years? Is that separate from any inflationary pressures or raw material issues?
spk03: Brian, these are primarily supply chain issues that are born out of, you know, initial COVID impact. So, and they're here and there, and the teams are doing a pretty good job of managing them. We're very aware when we pursue work to take those things into account in our contracts. But there are small little issues happening to our general contractors and to other members of the project teams that do have an impact and do have a tendency to kind of push schedules out and give us challenge to deal our way through. We're doing well with that, but we do see those kind of continuing since this last wave was recent and pretty severe.
spk06: Got it. Okay, and then just lastly on the transmission and distribution margins, it looked like at the end of the year, We're for the full year about 10.2% on the operating margin, and it's been above 10% for both 2Q through 4Q. And I'm just wondering, you know, is the mix of business evolving towards now, you know, you're at kind of a sustainable level at the high end of that 7% to 10.5% margin target?
spk08: We've set our goals there since we set that to be on the upper end. We see the market very strong. One thing we have had to our advantage in previous quarters, and we always highlighted it, was very good weather. I think if you look at current and a little bit into the end of last quarter, we probably had a little more normalized weather to what it's been. So when I look at that side, I would say our goal is to operate or exceed those upper ends of those margins, but Again, we adjusted those margins to that 10.5 upper level about halfway through last year, and we're not upping that at this point because we've got to take in the normal conditions of weather and everything else that could impact us. But, again, our goal is to operate on the upper end of that.
spk06: Okay, and then just one more question. You know, we've seen some larger scale type acquisitions over the last six to nine months. almost solely focused on, you know, utility scale transmission and distribution and markets. And I'm just curious, you know, what are your competitive advantages as, you know, smaller players get absorbed by larger players, you know, in terms of bidding on projects and, you know, anything else you could add on that side?
spk08: Well, for us, there's not... many projects of any size that we can't go after. So we're very competitive and we're set up to do either small, medium, or large-sized projects as we always have. So our competitive advantage is we're a pure play electrical. We know this industry well. We know the people well. We operate on a regional basis across the company, so we're bidding everything on a regional presence. And when you have that, you kind of know what it takes because the productivity and One area, you know, in New York isn't the same as it is in Kansas, isn't the same as it is in California, nor the conditions. So I think that's, you know, for us it's a competitive advantage, but it's also something that helps us to understand and determine our cost models. And for us it's making sure our cost is right. And if somebody wants to come in and substantially underbid us, and we pretty much know what it takes to do work in those areas, we don't look at anything as a must-win project. We look at it, how is it additive to our business, how does it make sense to do it profitably, and how do we estimate it to understand our cost and then put a fair margin on it. So with those things taken into consideration, if somebody wants to come in and take a project lower, they're going to do it. But long term, our clients, you know, we're there for the support, we understand the business, and we're going to continue to grow and extend our business.
spk06: Okay, great. Thank you very much.
spk00: Thank you, Brian.
spk01: Thank you. Again, ladies and gentlemen, if you have a question or comment at this time, please press star, then 1 on your telephone keypad. Our next question or comment comes from the line of John Bratz from Kansas City Capital. Your line is open.
spk10: Good morning, everyone. Good morning. Betty, is there an opportunity as we look to this year for some SG&A leverage, or do you see the – the spending rising in concert with revenues.
spk00: I would say that the overall leverage as far as a percentage, we consider that to be fairly consistent even as the business increases. It's minuscule what we get when we have the additional heading power line. Not going to change our SG&A percentage to a lower percentage. Yes, okay, okay.
spk10: Okay, and maybe Rick or Todd, if you could talk a little bit about what the opportunities at Powerline might be in terms of additional talent services that you can bring to that company to expand their revenue base.
spk07: Todd, do you want to take that? Sure, Rick. You know, right now with the acquisition just taking place in January, you know, we are focused on, you know, the cultural alignment, which is pretty strong right now and working hard to get things in place to move forward. Immediately there's a tremendous opportunity with their existing clients to grow the business there and obviously from an equipment perspective and infusion of that capital with them and supporting them on some technology and some, you know, additional training programs that we have. We feel that there's some efficiencies we can gain there. But, you know, ultimately the goal is to expand their presence. They are a heavy civil plus overhead contractors. They do a lot of underground in Toronto as well, in the Toronto region as well as overhead construction. So that lends to the possibility of other capabilities and expansions into the The other types of work that we do, but without a doubt, we're going to keep them within the core capabilities that we have and that they have as well and ultimately try to grow their business outside of that Toronto region and throughout Ontario.
spk08: And their client base, their current or existing client base is strong and has some good growth potential. So when we look at that side and we talk to their customers out there, good room for expansion in the future. Okay.
spk10: And it sounds like they're mostly commercial? The client base is mostly commercial? No, they're utility. They're utility. Oh, okay. Okay. All right. All right. Thank you much.
spk08: Okay. Thank you.
spk01: Thank you. Our next question or comment comes from the line of Justin Hawk from Baird. Your line is open.
spk02: Hi. Good morning. So, Betty, I guess I just wanted to quantify a little bit more on the Powerline Plus intangible amortization because, you know, you guys are unique in the fact that you report gap and, you know, your competitors add back that intangible amortization. So I guess the question is, first, that expense will be running through the segment line, correct, in T&D? And then maybe if you could just quantify, you know, numerically how much incremental – amortization there is and maybe how much of an impact in basis points that have some T&D margin.
spk00: So that is correct. We do put our amortization in the segment margin. The dollar amounts, as much as we don't segregate that from that perspective, you will see them in the cash flow statements. So you'll see whatever the increase is since our base of amortization is stable from last year's and prior acquisitions. The dollar amount, I can't tell you, I can't disclose that at this point in time, but it's something that's, I guess, significant enough if you take it to not be accretive almost at a break even. And T&D, $80 million business running at T&D margins that I was stating earlier. Our assumption right now is that the first year, but we haven't done all of our modeling, which, as you can appreciate, only two months into this, we haven't finalized the very final amortization. But our estimates is that it will probably close that gap to almost a break even in the first year.
spk02: Okay. So, yeah, maybe like – I mean – you know, saying if it's $80 million in revenue, 10% margin, you know, so maybe $8 million of incremental amortization that runs through that segment, just for round numbers.
spk00: It could be that or on the higher, even on the higher side, but yes, yes.
spk02: Okay, yeah, that's helpful. And I guess just my last point.
spk00: It's not small. Like CSI, it was not small in the first year, for sure.
spk02: Yeah, no, no, absolutely. So, but hopefully that should be upside to 23%. I guess my other question is just on the free cash flow outlook. You know, with your backlog being up so significantly, you know, and this being another revenue growth year in 22, is this going to be another kind of use of working capital year and we should expect the free cash flow, you know, remains, you know, kind of pressured or even, you know, down a little bit from where it was in 21? Just trying to think about how to think about the cash flow.
spk00: It would be similar when it comes down to our assumption is that the working capital would be close to the net income, including the growth without any very unusual changes in terms that could happen on any one contract, right? But that's our opinion. There will be Additional dollars coming through of need for the growth in the business, as we always have, but it's still going to go into that net income line.
spk02: Great. All right. Thank you very much.
spk00: I was just going to say, the capital expenditures being slightly higher than it has been in the last year or so from the growth in the business, too. Yeah, yeah. Thank you.
spk01: Thank you. I'm sure no additional questions in the queue at this time. I'd like to turn the conference back over to Mr. Rick Schwartz for any closing remarks.
spk08: To conclude, on behalf of Betty, Todd, Jeff, and myself, I sincerely thank you for joining us on the call today. I don't have anything further, and we look forward to working with you going forward and speaking with you again on our next conference call. Until then, stay safe.
spk01: Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for participating in today's conference. This concludes the program. You may now disconnect. Everyone, have a wonderful day.
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