OraSure Technologies, Inc.

Good day and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Orashir Technologies, Inc. 2024 Third Quarter Earnings Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star one one on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising your hand is raised. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Jason Plagman, Vice President of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Good afternoon and welcome to Orashir Technologies Third Quarter 2024 Earnings Call. Participating in the call today for OTI are Carrie Eglington Manor, our President and Chief Executive Officer, and Ken McGrath, our Chief Financial Officer. As a reminder, today's webcast is being recorded and the recording can be found on our Investor Relations website. Before we begin, you should know that this call may contain certain forward-looking statements, including statements with respect to revenues, expenses, profitability, earnings or loss per share, and other financial performance, product development, performance, shipments and markets, business plans, regulatory filings and approvals, expectations and strategies. Actual results could be significantly different. Factors that could affect results are discussed more fully in OTI's SEC filings, its annual report on Form 10K for the year ended December 31, 2023, its quarterly reports on Form 10Q, and its other SEC filings. Although forward-looking statements help to provide more complete information about future prospects, listeners should keep in mind that forward-looking statements are based solely on information available to management as of today. OTI undertakes no obligation to update any forward-looking statements to reflect events or circumstances after this call. With that, I am pleased to turn the call over to Carrie.

Thanks, Jason, and thank you to everyone for joining us today. We are pleased to provide an update on the progress Orishers making on the three pillars of our strategic transformation. One, strengthening our foundation, two, elevating our core growth, and three, accelerating profitable growth. A few notable developments during the third quarter include we delivered Q3 revenue that was in the top half of our guidance ranges for core revenue and total revenue. We received initial international orders for our ORAQUIC HCB self-test following receipt of WHO pre-qualification status in July. The ORAQUIC HCB self-test is the first hepatitis C self-test to earn this designation, and we look forward to expanding access to this important test. Also, we are expanding our sample management portfolio with the planned launch of a new solution targeting the rapidly growing blood proteomics market in the second half of 2025. In order to further streamline our organization, as well as sharpen our focus on markets that align with our strengths in diagnostics and sample management solutions, and that offer better opportunities for growth and profitability, we are in the process of winding down our risk assessment testing business, which also includes substance abuse testing. We expect to exit this business by the end of 2024. During Q3, we generated $12.7 million of operating cashflow, which includes positive cashflow from operations for the core business. And with our healthy balance sheet, we continue investing in our innovation roadmap and opportunities internally and externally that leverage our existing strengths in order to position OTI for accelerated and sustainable, profitable growth. Starting with our core business, Q3 core revenue of $37.8 million was above the midpoint of our guidance range. Performance in both diagnostics and sample management solutions was consistent with the outlook embedded in our guidance, and our international business had a strong quarter of the overall revenue as we expected. Within our diagnostics portfolio, we continue to have success with multi-product sales across our portfolio of HIV, HCV, and syphilis tests as healthcare providers and public health organizations recognize the need for a syndemic approach to rapid testing given the significant overlap in patients at risk for these infections. We are also seeing solid momentum with diagnostics direct syphilis health checks following our launch of this test at the end of Q1. In our international business, we received initial orders for our ORAQUIC HTV self-test following its WHO pre-qualification in July. As a reminder, the ORAQUIC HTV self-test is the first hepatitis C self-test to earn this designation and we are actively working with the global health community to bring this test to populations in need, including the 50 million people living with HCV and the 1 million individuals who acquire HCV each year. Shifting to sample management solutions, revenue increased sequentially in Q3 and we continue to see signs of a still gradual recovery in the market environment as genetic testing and research segments adapt to the post-COVID landscape and an evolving regulatory environment for diagnostic labs. Moving to operation operating efficiency, we continue to drive and demonstrate the benefits of operational improvements through an enterprise-wide focus on continuous improvement and by leveraging our capabilities, including in automation. To that end, earlier this year, we discussed our initiative to in-source production of certain sample management products from external contractors in Canada into our own manufacturing center of excellence in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. We are making terrific progress and expect to complete the transition in 2025, consistent with the project timelines we've outlined previously. Internalizing these activities is expected to further improve our operating efficiency, leveraging our existing infrastructure as we work to expand our gross margins. As I mentioned earlier, as part of our efforts to focus our resources in areas that best leverage our core strengths and streamline our cost structure, we plan to exit our risk assessment testing business by the end of 2024. OTI has served this market for many years, but our addressable market has now declined significantly due to several external factors, including the evolving legal status of marijuana and cannabis products and changes to the Department of Transportation testing guidelines. Our legacy risk assessment testing products do not meet these new guidelines and would have required significant investment by OTI in both product development resources and new production equipment to continue to successfully compete. Given this backdrop and our priority focus on growth opportunities, we have decided to wind down and exit our risk assessment testing business by the end of this year. Switching gears to product innovation. We are excited to begin sharing more details around our plan 2025 launch into the proteomics space. Our anticipated launch is a prime example of our sample management solution strategy in action, where we seek to drive growth in our portfolios by targeting new sample types, analytes and applications. We anticipate our proteomics product will address all three priorities as it represents expansion into blood collection with innovation in protein stabilization that enables us to enter new high growth applications such as liquid biopsy, Alzheimer's disease and diabetes to name a few. Sample collection solutions for these and other chronic illnesses represent a total addressable market in the hundreds of millions of dollars that is rapidly growing. These applications specifically in developing areas like oncology and neurology may be more research oriented in the near future but are expected to evolve into the clinical space over time just as genomic risk testing did. Our proprietary innovation,

sorry. Our proprietary innovation targets

specific gaps in competitive offerings. Intended benefits of our proteomic device and chemistry combination include ambient temperature shipping and room temperature storage over a longer duration of time as well as compatibility with traditional and next gen proteomic technologies. Initially, we anticipate our product to be for phlebotomy collected blood but we expect future iterations to marry our proprietary chemistries with self collected small volume blood technology access through our SAPROS partnership. We look forward to sharing more details as the launch progresses. Another important growth driver for our collection kits portfolio involves working with key partners to validate new applications for our cleared collection devices. We are pleased to share a recent collaboration in which PacBio validated and endorsed our DNA Genotech saliva collection devices for use with nanobind extraction kits on PacBio's long read sequencing platform. Long read sequencing provides insights about complex genomic variables including complex bacterial genomes and are also used in applications such as oncology, treatment monitoring, rare disease testing and chronic disease research. Additionally, we are making good progress on our COLE-P initiatives for FDA submission of self collected volumetric urine by end of 2025 and the HIV claims expansions that we discussed last quarter. On each, we expect to share more next year. With that, I'd like to turn the call over to Ken to discuss our financial results and guidance.

Thanks, Carrie. I'm happy to discuss our results for the third quarter of 2024 and provide updates on our financial outlook. In Q3, total revenue was 39.9 million. Core revenue, which excludes COVID-19 products and the molecular service business that we have exited was 37.8 million. Core revenue decreased 1% on a year over year basis in Q3 and was impacted by a decrease in revenue from the risk assessment testing business that we are exiting. Excluding the impact from the risk assessment business, core revenue growth in Q3 would have been 1%. Within core revenue, our diagnostic products generated 22 million of revenue in Q3 and increased 13% year over year, driven by strong order trends in our international HIV business as we previewed last quarter. Sample management revenue in the third quarter was 12.8 million and decreased 16% year over year, but did increase on a sequential basis for the second consecutive quarter as several key end markets show signs of gradual recovery. COVID-19 products contributed 2.2 million of revenue in the third quarter, which was above our expectations due to the timing of deliveries at the end of the quarter under our stay warm contract with the US government. Our gap gross margin in the third quarter was .8% and non-gap gross margin was 43.3%, which was consistent with our expectations. Gap operating expenses in the quarter were 23.1 million. During Q3, we had 2.9 million of non-cash stock compensation expense and 353,000 for reduction in workforce severance. Our gap operating loss in Q3 was 6 million and our non-gap operating loss was 2.7 million. As Carrie discussed, during Q3, we initiated steps to exit our risk assessment testing business by the end of 2024. The risk assessment business generated revenues of 1.9 million in Q3 and 6.3 million during the first nine months of 2024, which was a decline from 2.6 million in Q3-23 and 7.5 million during the first nine months of 2023. The risk assessment business had become slightly unprofitable with the declining revenue. We are also making progress on the restructuring initiatives we announced in May, including completing our exit from the molecular sequencing services business during Q3 as we expected. Moving to our balance sheet. We ended the third quarter with zero debt and total cash and cash equivalents of $279 million. During Q3, we generated 12.7 million of operating cashflow driven by solid operational performance in our core business, as well as the collection of accounts receivable related to IntelliSwab following the completion of our largest contract with the US government. Turning to guidance. We are guiding to fourth quarter total revenue of 36 to 38 million. We expect core revenue in Q4 to be 35 to 37 million, which represents a return to core growth on a -over-year basis. And this range includes one to two million of risk assessment testing revenue as we wind down that business. Revenue from COVID-19 products is expected to be approximately one million in the fourth quarter, which we anticipate to be the run rate for COVID-19 through the first quarter of 2025. Moving to gross margin. We expect our gross margin in Q4 to be consistent with the level we reported in Q3. Our fourth quarter gross margin forecast is slightly lower than our prior outlook due to two primary factors. First, our expectation for another strong quarter in international diagnostics business, which carries gross margins that are lower than our corporate average. And second, elevated costs in our risk assessment business as we wind down production and exit that business. Longer term, we continue to believe we can drive meaningful gross margin expansion and operating leverage from growth in 2025 and beyond. We also see significant opportunities to drive efficiencies across our enterprise, including further leveraging our automation capabilities. With that, I'll turn the call back to Carrie to conclude.

Thanks, Ken. And as we detailed today, we continue to advance our strategic transformation. We generated positive operating cashflow this quarter, even with significantly lower COVID-19 volumes. And our core business delivered positive cashflow from operations during Q3. We continue to focus our resources in markets that align with our core strengths in rapid diagnostics and sample management, and that offer the most attractive opportunities for profitable growth while we streamline our operations in order to unlock efficiency gains. Our Q4 outlook reflects a return to year over year growth in core revenue, and we are innovating in product development and our portfolio roadmap, both for new launches and enhancements to existing product lines. Overall, we are confident that OTI is well positioned to return to growth in 2025 and beyond, as key end markets gradually recover and we leverage our differentiated assets, our unique internal capabilities, and our strong customer relationships. Additionally, our balance sheet is enabling flexibility to invest in our innovation roadmap, including internal development, partnerships, and acquisition opportunities that can build on our existing assets and strengths to accelerate our growth. With that, I'm pleased to turn the call over to Darian, the operator for Q&A. Darian?

Thank you. At this time, we will conduct the question and answer session. As a reminder, to ask a question, you will need to press star 1-1 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star 1-1 again. Please stand by as we compile the Q&A roster. Our first question comes from the line of Patrick Donnelly of Citi. Your line is now open.

Hi, this is Brendan on for Patrick, and thank you guys for taking my question. So first off, thanks for the additional call around the risk assessment business. I was wondering if you guys would be able to kind of give an update on how long it may take to work through those additional gross margin headwinds moving forward.

Yeah, thank you for the question, Brendan. As we mentioned in the guidance, we have some great opportunities to continue to improve our gross margins over time. Part of this for Q4 is driven by, A, like you mentioned, the risk assessment business, and then also B, the international mix that we're seeing. And as a reminder, we've said it before, that the international business has lower margins than the overall business, overall gross margin of the business. But we continue to be excited about the opportunities to drive efficiency, and what excites us is, when it comes to some of the efforts that we've gone forward as far as leveraging our automation through our business, and leveraging some of the automation and capabilities that we developed while implementing COVID and Teleswab products, as well as consolidating our business into our Opus Way facility in Bethlehem. What that's allowed us to do, kind of consistent what we announced in Q1 earnings, where we are consolidating some of our manufacturing, both external contract manufacturing, as well as manufacturing from Thailand into the Opus Way facility. And what that allows us to do is leverage that overhead. So we have a lot of optimism about driving additional gross margin growth. And I think what we said in prior quarters is, we have visibility and expectation in the future to get back to the 50s for gross margin.

Got it, thank you, appreciate it, Paquilla. And then just to follow up, wanted to touch on the staff-worth partnership. Any more details on a possible timeline, or even just an update on how the new products are kind of progressing? Thank you.

Yeah, thanks, Brendan. We're very encouraged by the co-development and strategic partnership with SAPPHIROS. We've talked about it being off to a good start. In terms of launches, we remain in the regulatory process. I should say they remain in the regulatory process, which always has uncertainty in it, but we accounted for that. So you'll remember that we always described that the revenue would be for 2025, even though we knew submission was planned ahead of time, based on that uncertainty and their experience and our experience with it. We had planned for 2025, and that's still what we are anticipating. But off to a very good start, regulatory process to be continued to work through, and then still planning 25 launch and the revenue that we had previously talked

about. Thank you, Brendan.

Thank

you.

Our next question comes from the line of Jacob Johnson of Stevens. Your line is now open.

Good afternoon, this is Mack on for Jacob. Just a few quick ones from me. I think you're guiding to roughly 5% -over-year growth in core revenues for Q24. Do you see this as a reasonable starting place for modeling 2025 outside of the SOFIRES contribution?

Yeah, I think what we've said in prior earnings calls is, what were the exact quotes we've used, Jason, for overall growth? Modest, I think we used modest growth in the past. This little bit is probably an example of Q4 of last year being a little bit lower. But we are looking for moderate growth in 2025, being driven by our investments and our partnership in Diagnostics Direct with our syphilis tests, which we are very positive on, as well as SOFIRES driving that growth.

Yeah, we'll provide more, thanks, Ken. And Mack, for the question, we'll provide more details in February. We don't provide that sort of 2025 guidance, but we will provide more color to that after our Q4 or within Q4 earnings. And I think we are building on a -over-quarter sequential growth and this gradual recovery that we continue to see with some green shoots just in terms of the customers we're adding.

Appreciate the color there. And then, yeah, 3Q is roughly $280 million worth of cash. How should we think about this capital being deployed in the near term? Should we expect more continued partnerships and smaller investments, or could you potentially look at a larger deal if one was to be presented?

Yeah, we're highly focused on innovation, accelerating growth through our product roadmap opportunistically. We very clearly are working on internal development and where we can accelerate that profitable growth through external opportunities from strategic transformation through bolt-ons, excuse me, through bolt-ons and otherwise. I think it's the opportunity that rebuilding, strengthening our foundation has given us, which is the opportunity to really do the right diligence. We've talked about this before. I know, Mack, we've shared it in probably every quarter, but to take multiple shots on goal, align with the strengths we have today, leverage our assets, and really figure out, you know, take the time to make the right bet, but with multiple opportunities, the cash we have, that gives us the potential to do that. So I'd say everything you described is well in our line of sight, and we look forward to talking more about each of those.

Appreciate you taking the questions.

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Vijay Kumar of Evercore ISI. Your line is now open.

Hey guys, thanks for taking the question. I guess on Q4, how should we think about gross margins and optics on a sequential basis? Is that gonna be flat-ish, up or down? In gross margins, it's moved around quite a bit, given the max, what's the right baseline for gross margins from which it's gonna expand?

Yeah, thanks, that's a great question. Yeah, what we're guiding towards is consistent with Q3. So to your point, relatively flat-ish. The drivers for that for Q4 is we are seeing or expecting more international revenue than we expected than originally when we gave the guidance in the prior quarter. In addition, as we wind down our risk assessment business, the cost related to that. So we are pretty consistent. From an operating, same, pretty consistent with Q3. Going forward, we do have expectations and visibility to margins, gross margins in the 50%. Again, driven by all the things we talked about, whether it's automation, operational efficiency, consolidations into one facility, all of those elements. We do have expectations in the future and outer years to be in the 50% margins.

So is the back half here, the low 40s, is that the right jump off point and how we should be modeling gross margin expansion?

Yeah, we haven't guided to 2025. I would say Q3 and Q4 were impacted a bit by the international mix, which is a bit more than usual. But we haven't guided to 25 as far as margins. What we have guided to is we think in the long-term future or in the mid to long-term future, we have visibility expectations to be in the 50% range.

Sorry, Ken. What I meant was, what is the right baseline? So clearly back half is not the right baseline given the mix. Is mid 40s is the right baseline for us to model gross margins going forward? What is the underlying?

Yeah, I'd say the right baseline is probably the mid 40s in that range.

That's understood, that's helpful. And Kerry, maybe one for you on this SAFROS revenues. How meaningful could these revenues be? What's the margin profile on this? And is that, when you say revenues to fall through in fiscal 25, is it early, is it mid, back half of 25?

Yeah, hi, VJ, it's good to hear you. The specifics around SAFROS we'll share as we launch the product together with them. So we are anticipating sharing more on that in February as well, talking more about 25. The opportunities are significant. So in terms of the kind of scope without sizing it or giving guidance, what we've shared is it really spans our portfolio. And I think that's part of our excitement. On the sample management side, it's an opportunity in small volume, self collected blood. We have shared that we anticipate that to be the first launch. And then it's a range of diagnostics products from visual and digital lateral flow through to molecular like and onwards to the potential for a molecular point of care type offering and in the roadmap down the road. So I know it's unsatisfying when you ask detailed questions not to give you the detailed line by line, here's the exact timing of launch, this is contribution and this is a margin, but we do anticipate sharing more on that and how it can be accretive to our core growth to follow.

Yeah, we've shared in the past when it comes to some of these deals, we do expect them to be accretive from an operating perspective. And then just one thing to keep in mind is the P&L geography could be different depending on some of these deals. You could see from between gross margins or operating margins where we leverage.

I understand, and maybe one last one for you Ken. This risk assessment exit, how does it impact the P&L from a gross margin in operating margin standpoint?

Yeah, right now I think we said it was slightly declining in revenue as well as slightly unprofitable. So it should improve slightly as you pull that mix out from a gross margin and an operating perspective.

In Q4 like all revenues, like is that the last quarter should we expect some risk assessment revenues next year?

Correct, yeah, we'll be exiting by the end of 2024.

Understood, thank you guys.

Thanks CJ.

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Casey Woodring of JP Morgan, your line is now open.

Hi, great, thank you for taking my questions. I guess the first one, can you just walk through what drove the 13% growth in diagnostics? Maybe you can break that down between HIV and HCV and maybe internationally versus domestic, kind of where you saw the strength in the quarter.

Yeah, we saw a lot of strength, kind of alluded to it during the script in our international business where we saw some positive growth versus the prior year as well as sequentially. So that's probably the big driver, was international in the domestic business. And we did see some strength domestically but the majority of the growth was from international.

And it's HIV large?

HIV, correct.

Got it, okay. And then, curious to hear your thoughts or get an updated view on how you guys are thinking about the consumer genomics and market, one of the larger players in that space has been going through a lot of turmoil publicly over the last few weeks. So just curious to hear your latest thoughts on the opportunity there for your business.

Yeah, Casey, you're right on. There's some significant turmoil and with some of our largest customers, we have very close relationships and work sort of hand in hand and have shared some renewal and our agreements, just the belief in the go forward and the opportunities there. But those large customers, we've talked about this, that experience their end market softness have continued to be something that we are tracking closely and where our optimism comes in, both is in the durability of their opportunities, but I'd say simultaneously, it's in adding a number of new customers across different segments as well. So we believe in consumer genomics and that there will be that return to growth for all of those customers, including our larger ones. And we've added significant new customer base in clinical diagnostics, in pharma, in biotech, we've talked about segments like animal health. So you'll see that the green shoots are there. What we all are looking for is the accelerated return to growth. And you point out one of those significant ones, but I think with the increasing applications in omics across the board, we went from a strengthened DNA to adding RNA capabilities. And we just talked in this release about our proteomics launch, the increasing applications that connect these disease biomarkers to disease and potential treatments, it's only going to increase, we believe it's a matter of when, not if. And so while we believe consumer genomics remains important, this ability to add applications and customers and opportunities, we believe those green shoots are going to grow and that will be a significant part of the return to

growth. Got it, that's helpful color. Maybe if I can just squeeze one last one in, curious to hear your thoughts on the -to-market strategy for the sample management solution and blood proteomics, are you gonna have to, is there any additional investment needed to launch that product from a commercial perspective next year? And then you mentioned the TAM is in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Just kind of curious if that TAM is gonna be that big at launch or just kind of how you're thinking about that end market and the opportunity here for Orishir. Thank you.

Yes, thanks, Casey. You're right on that ramp up. And you'll note we talked in our prepared remarks about starting with research use only with academic opportunities, pharma opportunities with exploration because it really is about the increasing potential that connect protein and proteomic biomarkers to disease. So we highlighted oncology, neurology and cardiometabolic applications that we mentioned liquid biopsy that includes Alzheimer's disease and other dementias of course. So it's a customer base that we serve today, many of whom have both blood and saliva based applications in their, sort of the scheme of their portfolios. But yes, because we're launching RUO first and this really is about emerging applications and proteomics, which we believe, it will be a ramp up, but it's one of the exciting areas in omics that we're excited to bring some benefits like the longer duration of room temperature storage capabilities and ambient temperature shipments, not having to do cold storage, et cetera. And that our solution, we intend it to be compatible with sort of the next gen of proteomics. So I know I'm getting sort of my excitement and on multiple fronts on that, but yes, I expect it'll ramp up. I think that the RUO itself kind of demonstrates that, but we do believe it's an application of the future with really tremendous potential.

Got it, thank you. Thanks, Casey.

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Andrew Cooper of Raymond James, your line is now open.

Hey everyone, this is Noah on for Andrew. Thanks for the questions. Firstly, I was just kind of curious, you mentioned international growth has been pretty strong and the margin impacts around that. How important are those international growth vectors for your core business going forward? And then how would that affect any of the margin ramp longer term towards that 50% range?

International is a healthy portion of our overall core business. And we do have solid expectations for growth in that area. As far as the impact on gross margins, what we get excited about is the operational efficiency throughout all of our business. And that allows us and that gives us visibility to get to that 50% gross margin target that we're looking to get to in the mid to long term. And those really come from the operational efficiency that we talked about. So yeah, it's a portion of our business. It's a healthy portion of our business. We're excited about the growth opportunities there, but we're also excited about the opportunities to drive efficiency throughout the overall business to improve our margins.

And just to add to Ken's point Noah around international, I just say, a part of the potential we have is this long track record of service to and collaboration with and credibility with global funders who are a very big portion of this market. It's a big public health need. And there are very important government testing programs and international agencies that support that, and including through government of direct ministries of health. We have, that's a complex environment to navigate, which we have decades of serving. And are continuing to bring like WHOPQ cleared or status test to that. And one of the other things we're seeing is, real patient preference for saliva collection in international markets versus blood. So a part of the success of accessing patients and being able to understand the status and get to treatment in one of the most important diseases in our lifetimes in HIV is the ability to get patients to do the testing and our oral fluid test is a real enabler for that. So I think our track record and demonstrated success over many years really, we're continuing to build on that. And that growth is an opportunity, I think we think is a big one.

Awesome, and if I could just sneak one more in, what would the incremental investments look like in order to drive some of that core growth going forward? I know you have the blood proteomics in the back half of next year, you have the SAPROS partnership coming online, but you're also rolling off the risk assessment business, which is somewhat minor revenue, but still, what could be some of those incremental investments that we might need to see in order to get growth, or are you mostly focusing on those organic opportunities that you already have in place?

Yeah, I mean, I'd say we see those in our run rate. We're not looking at large incremental investment opportunities, a part of what we're focused on is leveraging the strengths we have, the capabilities we have, the commercial channel we have, the customer relationship and history. And so we view that as largely within our run rate. If we decide to add more, we'll definitely share that, but as we've been planning 25, I'd say it really is, other than sort of what we've talked about before.

In the past, we've talked about with SAPROS and past calls that it could be a few million of dollars of investment. However, to Kerry's point, what we're trying to do is leverage as much as we can our existing capabilities and be able to deliver with our existing capabilities. So run rate's a pretty good assumption, whether or not there's a million here or there to help boost some of those launches or startups, you could see that.

And then we'll pivot as necessary. I mean, our work is going to be in successful launches. And I said it earlier, but we are incredibly focused on innovation. We've spent two years strengthening the foundation while making investments into accelerating our innovation pipeline. This really, in the financial position we're in, we have a tremendous opportunity through this investment internally and externally to really accelerate innovation. And our strengths allow us the potential to scale that, and that's where we're laser focused.

Awesome, thanks. Thanks,

Noah. Thank you. This concludes our question and answer session. I would now like to turn it back to Kerry for closing remarks.

Thank you, Darian. We really appreciate everyone's interest and look forward to the ongoing conversations. We'll talk to you again in February, if not before. Thanks.

Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect.