Perma-Fix Environmental Services, Inc.

Q4 2022 Earnings Conference Call


spk_0: the day everyone and welcome to the perma fix fiscal two thousand and twenty two year and earnings conference call at this time all participants have been placed on a listen only mode and we will open the floor few your questions and comments after the presentation it is not my pleasure to turn the floor over to your host david walkman sort of lose yours
spk_1: thank you mad good morning everyone and welcome to protect environmental services fourth quarter your own two thousand twenty two conference call on the call of this morning are marked off president and ceo doctor lucena funny that you vice president of strategic initiatives and ben that corrado chief financial officer the company issued a press release this morning containing fourth quarter two thousand twenty two financial results which is also posted on the company's website you have any questions after the call would like any additional information about company please contact crescendo communication the you want to six seven one one zero two zero and also like to remind everyone that certain statements contained within this complex maybe the forward looking statements with him meaning of the private securities litigation reform act of ninety ninety five and include certain on gap financial measures asked a bit on a conference call other than a statement of historical factor for that the statement that are subject to known and unknown risks uncertainties and other factors which could cause actual results him form to the company differ materially from such statements these results are dieter do them the company's filings with the securities and exchange commission as long as money's press release the company makes no commitment to disclose any revision before looking statements or any fact events or circumstances after the day here are the fair point forward looking statements in addition to these call will include references to non get measures from fix believe that such information provide it's an additional measurement and consistent historical comparison of it's performance a reconciliation other non get measures to the most directly comparable gap measures is available in today's news release on our website and now i tried the call of it marked off please go ahead mark
spk_2: all right thanks david a good morning everyone two thousand twenty with the transformative years we build a solid foundation for growth or in the upcoming year were five seeing a return to normal they shouldn't and madam we had prior to the pandemic the weakness or in revenue experience in toy to it due to the lingering effect of a good night team pandemic on the length and
spk_3: the projects in the services and the treatment segments nevertheless we achieved computers that fifty eight percent increase in gross profit in the fourth quarter which was due to improve profitability of the services projects bread last year edition
spk_2: odd total gross profit margin increase from roughly seven to twelve percent while toy point to where the a year we believe we're back on that growth trajectory primarily due the recent prove that we've seen in our treatment segment with an artery with segment we've experienced a steady improvement waste receipt specifically are average receipt for core of steadily returned to pre pandemic levels up over the last nine months
spk_4: of the year
spk_2: this it does reflected in a backlog which was nine point two million a year and to give really hard the prior quarters this as a result of increased way shipments from the we as well as our efforts to broaden our client base or into the commercial or utility sector as was oil gas and other industrial markets the born to know that the fourth quarter or for toy twenty two with negatively impacted by child associated with labor issues by an i attrition rates do with department energy hiring campaigns at several other sites which are near our facilities as well as supply chain impacts are from availability of waste processing materials as such as grout max we also experience severe weather impacts due to record low temperatures are in the tri city area of washington korver these issues the began to to sign up in the first quarter of toy to see report score of twenty three three out with up hiring at each location realizing stability i compared to the last two cores in addition or the growth of our bases were were rapidly advancing several initiatives that we believe other potential never go you have our revenues and or long term backlog for instance we have realized too important steps forward with it of our manager in pursuit of are hampered initiatives or that hold significant potential growth for many years these initiatives include the january thirty first amendment of the record of decision or rod for the final tank closer with man's vi f yes that was originally developed and twenty thirteen as well as an announcement or this past friday for the notice of availability for the waste incidental the reprocessing what we call the we're a report or which is in support of
spk_3: the test bed initiative a demonstration or call tb i
spk_2: first off as with on the first amendment the amendment up to the rod after the direct feed low activity which will call or for to the the of all the silly i would support the secondary ways program also know up for at the hanford site
spk_5: in washington
spk_2: represent the sidewalk water to the other the next decade and while we can't write to any specific that this time i to say the perfect will provide the recommended treatment solutions for rate acts waste streams are produced by the of our program what to get operational this waste is estimated by the way to be over eight thousand cubic meters annually will be begin to be received at perfect facilities a hot hot hot start up of the plant currently projected to begin or in the late twenty twenty four timeframe to put the to perspective this volume awaits would more than doubled the production of all of our plants combined on annual basis and and go given the fixed costs nature of our business with could result in very every cash flows or over the next ten year period the second that for to the mention that is the final ah with incidental to reap processing or we're document published this week by the away with state that the program for the proposed a tv i program would demonstrate a supplemental
spk_3: lol treatment approach
spk_2: the we're what are the state that based on the final of a way to deal with terminate the pre treated and solidified waste from the tanks is incidental to reprocessing a spent nuclear fuel is not high level waste and it's do manage as low level waste this progress opened the door for deal with to work with the washington state department of ecology which is a regulator at to develop an approved the record for documents for shipment of the face to program they to clothes grouting disposal of two thousand gallon tank ways curly anticipated be shipped for the end of the year these developments underscore the important role it perfect will be playing in the logs her mission for and for closure and support about that the of love the trick asia program as well as it's a little take wasting a program that will likely include commercial grouting as discussed last quarter of the tv i initiated old the potential save tens of billions of dollars taxpayer dollars as well as eliminate significant carbon emissions i ever do schedules for hanford cleanup perfect maintains these capabilities today at or from northwest facility which is permitted now that the safely a compile grout up to thirty thousand gallons a month with the ability to expand well over main god annually while dramatically reducing costs are compared to the advocation within a certain segments we reach full operational thousand several projects have been delayed due to the impact of the pandemic and additionally secured important projects that we expect will begin and the second core of twenty twenty three as impacts from the pandemic continue to fade the federal government's big gun to announce new projects that been on hold these procurement cycles are move forward to support the increase funding levels which winters we will result in a number of additional opportunities to be awarded in the coming years as a result we have now over two hundred nine dollars and define current opportunities targeted to be released in the next few quarters in addition we continue to wait some very large potential strategic awards by the the away some of these products are quite considerable five a in if selected by the we would represent substantial increases in sustainable revenue to align with our core competencies some of these upcoming the we project now with clue the forty five billion dollar hanford and great think this was as a contract and the three billion our operations as like missions or project which are both likely to be awarded a in the second quarter if we're successful we would be this way the team member on these large the would become as both of which
spk_3: until alive our strengths and invasions and radiological protection waste management i were also close to announcement ah of another project with for to and past calls
spk_2: through the joint research council up in italy would shut his project would support our expensive program and in europe and open the door for deployment of our treatment get boundaries are in these the rapidly growing markets are in europe we've also received several given a strategic awards so the past few months specifically associated with our thoughts or technology including announcement last week that our team our the war the first abandoned uranium mine close your task or in support of the new what you pay a been my program while that's a little task or or represents only about a million dollars revenue for toy story three went creating rap expansive the program fallen deployment of our technology or into the first sight and which is located in the northeast arizona region the word have also been realized at several the relocations that will support backlog generation toy point three addition our weapons as for syrup comic procurement finishes for the us department of interior of corporate there's ah the us navy i and several other the we cite projects other guess was to his backyard and the next few course as a result of these factors cleared was that there is significant pet up the man and that we expect the benefit from approved budgets and and carryover spending from last year as a result we maintain an optimistic view that toy twenty three will see a significant improvement over twenty two as i mentioned earlier were already think side the that improvement turn back or finances for a moment i guess it even up for cute for towards my to uproot a lot of part one million dollars by to the loss of one point seven the prior year out que pour toi twenty one aside from our expectation that of solid revenue growth having a positive impact or even god for we contain a focus on reduction of non billable or indirect operating costs as well as the next expenses as or as all we just been a meaningful proven profitability and cash flow going forward at the same time we continue the events or and our capabilities and or facilities we bought a solid foundation for growth and high skilled infrastructure as a result we believe we're in a great position to take advantage of the pen up the man that we mention as with the t and increase revenues were expected benefit from the predictable cashflows within our server service the segment and hi incremental margins are from our treat missing overall we remain confident in our billion see the growth and stability we experience prior to the vein them and given are increasing backlog facade pipeline of mcgrew services projects and several potentially transformative that we went in advocate materialize of next coming months in years on that note on now turned over to ban banu will discuss our fan for results and little more detail than
spk_6: i can mark
spk_3: with revenue or total revenue for them from continuing operations for the quarter with sixteen point eight
spk_7: there to last year's fourth quarters seventy one we have two hundred fifty nine thousand or two point one percent
spk_3: the decrease was primary due to a drop in our treatments segment revenue of about to ninety
spk_7: by the good quarter on the way through see cyprus as mentioned was impacted by supply chain labor and inclement weather by the phillies boy did how positive impact on revenue
spk_4: but there was a offset from lower average price
spk_7: how not uncommon it's just really to waste next in the service segment revenue is down slightly by sixty nine thousand and that's really good timing alongside project
spk_6: for twenty twenty for the year ended twenty twenty two or revenue with seventy point six million compared seventy two point two million
spk_8: last year
spk_3: in the treatment segment revenue increased slightly by three hundred sixty six hours to the i always volume
spk_7: and then offset by average lower average pricing as with the quarter on the service segment revenue it was down by two million primarily from the slow started the first four he had to have are larger projects but had a productivity ramped up production two two three four
spk_6: on the gross profit side gross profit for the quarter with two million
spk_0: come here compared to one point three million and twenty twenty one
spk_3: the increasing gross profit or approximately seven hundred and forty thousand was from the services segment which
spk_7: with the result of improved profitability of our current projects i've worked on which included it and nineteen point a reduction in project related mary will pass is improvement was offset by reduction in gross profit from the treatment segment is pressing delays we discussed preview sleep as well as an increase in fix expenses of the plants related to labor and utility for a year and twenty twenty two the gross profit with nine point six million compared to six point eight million and twenty one disapproving gross profit came from the services segment where it again the improved project profitability contributed four point seven million improve gross profit and now i was upset by a small decrease in the gross profit from lower revenue
spk_3: it's increasing gross profit service second was upset had a decrease in treatment segment again from lower revenue waste make lower margin your mix of subway and increase facility car
spk_6: i told you in a for the quarter with three point six million compared to three point three million in the fourth quarter last year
spk_3: and well as in a for the full year was fourteen point seven million compared to twelve point a million in twenty twenty one
spk_6: have seen expenses for the quarter were hired as marketing expenses
spk_7: laura from increase payroll trade show expenses and commission earn admin expenses for the quarter were higher
spk_9: higher payroll benefit thought it be
spk_7: right off of penn and stock option compensation as well as from a fix medical costs which are no longer absorbed by our previous medical segments similar to the quarter rg and a costs were up for the year in marketing firm payroll and trade show and travel admin expenses were hired you to audit outside services an increase payroll costs longer absorbed by the the medical segments our net loss a typical common shareholders for the quarter was one point seven million compared to last year's have lots of two point five million for the year and twelve thirty one
spk_2: twenty twenty two our net loss attribute of commons shareholders with three point eight million compared to net income of eight hundred and thirty five thousand and prior year
spk_7: a basic and deluded net loss per share for the quarter with thirteen cents compared to loss of nineteen cents in the prior year
spk_6: last for share for the year ended december thirty one with twenty nine cents per share compared to income of seven in the price adjusted eva from continuing operations as we defined in this morning's press release for the loss of one million compared to a lot of one point seven million last year
spk_7: for the year ended twenty twenty two adjusted with i was a loss of three point three million compared to a lot of four point four million and twenty one
spk_6: turning to the balance sheet or cash on the bouncy was one point nine million compared to four point four million a year and reflecting the losses for the year
spk_7: or accounts receivable were down to million reflecting improved collections primarily in the service segment around bill receivables were down two point nine million reflecting increase filling in a large project that was nearing completion other assets were at one point one million partially due to the employment retention credited two million which is still outstanding our current liabilities were down three point two million from came of outstanding payables and the reduction in unearned revenue and approximately seven hundred and sixty seven thousand as of december thirty has a december twenty twenty two or three men backlog said that nine point two million up from seven point one mil both that your and twenty twenty one and september twenty twenty two i told them for the quarter and was one million excluding debt issuance costs which is mostly old fiancee then finally on the cash flow size up for twenty twenty two our cash provided by continuing operations came in at a hundred and sixty four thousand cash used by discontinued operations with seven hundred and seventeen thousand cassie for investing have continuing operations was nine hundred ninety seven thousand primarily capital related and cashews for financing was nine and twenty one thousand representing payments and kept the line of five hundred and two thousand and payments
spk_10: related to financially liabilities and other day
spk_7: a proxy for hundred nineteen thousand
spk_0: with that operator all now turn the kahlo request certainly at this time will be conducting a question and answer session if you have any questions or comments please press star one on your phone at this time we do as the while posing a question please pick up your handset a for listening on speakerphone to provide optimum sound quality once again if you have any questions or comments please press star one on your phone
spk_11: your first question is coming from howard browse from wellington shields your line his life thank you ah my them lula hope you and your family you doing well but going our way felt so safe place for full disclosure i need to say that i was the investment bank of your equity raise of six point two million september twenty twenty one and in addition members of my immediate family own shares in palm effects felt that they get to a couple of important questions
spk_12: ah the plymouth energy just published delhi comments relating to
spk_11: the of law he record of decision specifically mentions and only mentions politics northwest as the facility to treat which seems to the enormous quantities of secondary waste they talk about eighty three hundred cubic meters of solid a liquid waste annually which if i converted that to liquid which i still have questions about it's about to two point two million gallons of if it's liquid waste eighteen cubic meters of mid level waste and three hundred thirty two cubic meters of them level waste
spk_2: because it's a combination of liquids and solids can you give me a sense of what the algo revenues the perfect could be starting if you're operational and twenty twenty five as an example sure our yeah you really can't do a up a real current version of those qualities because the a lot of at a three hundred ah cubic meters is debris or other it weighs like pp are pretty personal protective equipment or other things get contaminated had a think so it's difficult to do that up we looked at the various types of ways to be generated compared to what we do now is it mentioned afford and a script that's about double our total and put now for ways all or plants combine ah end out but we do have our i do want to match
spk_3: are we do have a contract with the take contractor that will likely be no rated ah in that it's like it's an ama same as a services agreement type of contract ah and it's got raped and we talked about rates of
spk_2: ah applying our rates to the volumes of each individual a stream ah are looks to be about an annual revenue that between sixty five seventy five million a year or so it is a significant increase in revenue of for that plan and the company overall ah that sixty five the thirty five million could vary depending on how much of which way's drink changes along the way ah an iq also very dependent on other a new got content had that was received ah in others different charges for different types of levels of reactivity i am the types thanks things i get you generally when that that plant is running out of the of lol play as running at full capacity which is right now understand the at the like you for the plan is to treat a lane gallons a year when it gets that level then
spk_11: i think would bailed expect that you know over eight thousand cubic meters ear
spk_13: and basically this will be a to normalize creepy margin that is correct statement
spk_2: was general yeah you know that there's some inflation of it is gonna after pearl all the way yeah the the and natural gas prices and the truck the tri city area if caught up dramatically a brother as the country and things like that labor issues with but yet generally the the margins albeit what we make now on which treatment at all will you need to have higher any additional personnel for the specific award yeah there will be a little xp expected the mentioned and script or right now the away is very casual where's the informal about when the start of the final occur ah the predicting at this point time it'll be late
spk_14: twenty twenty four ah and then you'll get rolling up through twenty five i would expect him to take year if you're apt to get the full capacity of everything went well
spk_2: ah and i'm
spk_15: i'm throwing question that our of and morty
spk_2: now they've requested additional personnel
spk_16: oh the over yeah so at full capacity or our dissipate up to three seventy five maybe one hundred people
spk_3: additional
spk_11: he added additional the current staff crack like you're basically talking about if i do some numbers you talking about earnings are just than this contract fully deployed and say twenty twenty five almost three dollars in loans
spk_2: that sounds about right
spk_3: i got
spk_2: i'm not qualified a point that they were added
spk_11: did you that matter to the qualified and i have done that map ah but that sounds about like it might be a about the right number of gerrard
spk_15: let me continue because the deal he has published probably fifteen hundred different poses an item
spk_11: let's talk about the the to be i was interesting about the the to be i comment two thousand gallons assuming that's done by the end of the year
spk_17: they also mention that they have no desire and this is in
spk_18: and documents finally incidental to reprocessing evaluation for the test that initiative demonstration
spk_19: ah
spk_18: and this came out
spk_17: my sixties
spk_11: and on pages worth dash when a twenty one and twenty two effectively they have said that they have no desire
spk_2: to do what you when i would look that as a third phase of three hundred thousand gallons and this does imply that they're looking to go from the two thousand gallons of and these successful writer full capacity like your comment about that yeah we we have a never me that the away the last few weeks about ah the overall tv i program and of of ask for for about that and and and view response responses generally been the same as been and out as up described on prior phone calls and added the the have a road map that that they refer to which integrates their strategy for thank clean up and includes and it was largely based on the the up law facility i know it's deal he has fourteen billion dollars invested in ah in we see decades of construction get an airplane up and running in that kind of the centerpiece at it he be i and grouting ah certainly fits into that road map as they refer to it ah when it occurs is going to be dependent on our when the of all gets rolling out finding out how the about the silly works ah other types of a regulatory considerations ah and those types of things are in it in in in the response to whether they're gonna go to three hundred thou the gala vs right into a production level i think the with me that isn't yet period our they call it tv i ah or low level waste of a disposition as which is what they refer to rationally that that remains to be seen but the supplemental program for grouting ah is certainly seems to be a i'd as but i've a toll is a part of that the overall road map so to answer questions howard whether three hundred thou the gao the as phase three of tv i for whether it's right and are operational phase delia laid the groundwork so far from ragged to perspective of from through the we're that you mention it and it also through the environmental assessment at a sports or niva requirements they will be done on are they have another hurdle to address our just a small or or or with the state of oh but washington for the are the permit which is required a pub the way out of the tank the ship to us for that that a concert gone i as you noted another a method of that are popping out now to what they call the task or that his is pumping my weight the away as as planned on
spk_20: on public a hundred thousand gallons this county year with that up and putting in storage for the a flaw
spk_2: ah and our tickets for i think it's a a not an opportunity to are also grout some of that sought do it that agree to that yet but the your depends on when the a blog up running of it's just around the corner or of it's a good ways off michelle of opportunities at a top a deal about that potential as well so
spk_11: up the desert questions visit without think the always it has given like consideration at to whether it's face three a pbr whether it's right and or operational phase
spk_2: an operational say is what kind of capacity could you you can cook work on in terms of a twenty twenty five the we can do thirty thousand gal the month as to tomorrow
spk_11: or permits permitted our facility support that throughput
spk_21: in the i'm we can expand that through a minor permit mod or and some a minor cap of robots up to a million i with some additional mods or you can get that up to several million ah
spk_11: but that right now that three thousand gallons a years work or capacity is ah whatever do use rate ago
spk_22: and got this is standard treatment modules again
spk_2: yeah that's correct and what you need additional love people to positive
spk_11: after they were the threat about thousand three hundred thousand gallons of be about twenty five people the total ah to run that operation ah and am get it done a lotta depends on how password receiving the ways whether get a second schaeffer third shift or or whether it's our lot of very time which we don't the one ship so that that will vary it
spk_3: fifteen toy by people probably good as to if we are run a full thirty thousand gallons a month
spk_11: three thousand gallons a month if he says is that you talking about car seventy five cents you can take
spk_23: and of couple get up and be talking about the actually considering going very by the numbers our but that that that that like potential about right
spk_24: everybody's going to be want to talk you know lastly about i didn't see
spk_2: we were expecting a decision momentarily that a quick quickly he really as been a very
spk_3: add difficult to pin down or guards their schedule the procurement right now the he has been consistently saying that veneering that i have some time ah and cute banana a one which oversees i week away so at the believe it's a barbecue to for both i ttc and the our some as our them as as
spk_2: more vocal about and award and the may timeframe ah but the i ttc out i'm gonna assume howard as any day
spk_11: and that but likely in that you tube of before leak and april timeframe the unless i'm as is paducah ky smith is that one that yet of the yet duff six
spk_2: bye bye management contract and as well sports of it again prefecture outright together assume for the moment take your group when the i t d c contract with we all hope to do what does that mean to you other than fifty years and forty five billion dollars you're going forty five billion dollars but with could you be going as a part of it and be adequately my son to that is if you lose because you a small business will you to participate yeah it it's very difficult to answer questions the first question that howard and this know came to the told me about your that the procurement is quite unusual in that so large that so complex the we did not require a baseline schedule a or baseline cost estimate i which means it is very little coughing provided are in very ah left detail on what what each from each team members doing specifically so it's it's like a closure contract and that you are when the go she ate the winner will negotiate pass holders for all the components a scope during the transition period at that time you'll understand and that which pieces go specifically of it gonna be contract require quite do i am a people and come with it
spk_5: in that type of thing so none of that will be defined by any the winners until after transistors after running so that i really can't answer with the a ruffian financial backers the as a small business
spk_2: the mentioned as well in the past others is a very significant a small business set aside requirement for the winner ah at the formula of overall revenue but generally the up ah small business set aside goals average about two hundred million dollars in here a year to remain dollars annually ah of for some ah
spk_3: goals or that a priest never going to mouth ah and i'm now we still remain a father's as a qualified to do that
spk_2: so the sec or your question or if we were not selected we would certainly be
spk_11: a very viable i'll wait for that winning team to meet us all business goals
spk_25: as well as provide ah is have a proposition i would ride or team and our high the optimistic that if we don't win will be able to attain a good portion of that
spk_0: that work i ever thought already accounted for by another no team member
spk_1: i'm haunted that into too much had best of luck thank you but i think our
spk_2: thank you your next question is coming from aaron warwick from breakout investors your line as live hey guys thanks for taking the kong present on howard questions him in your answers to those give us for clarity
spk_3: what about talk about pants and a little bit as well but also wanted to look more near term and get some clarity it sounds like the businesses really turned a corner here after the pandemic and a try to get a sense of you expect to be profitable and this fiscal year
spk_2: yeah cook the key one looks a lot better than cure for did iron are pretty a question that ah and cute too it has a lot of things are happening that are very exciting that are projected at doing much better the que one ah and
spk_26: so we should expect be profitable ah and queue to ah
spk_2: if you want to still still couple things like the see come in have a key to his are exciting we have the iraq or facility here not bridge eleven caring for least for about three years now it's finally starting to generate real revenue i'll get a big project we're doing there our i and several others pending or that gets rolling as gotten wrong here last ten days i will run full capacity just about through cute too and ah in this into that as emitted and the notes we want to number of projects that are all getting rolling er en que tu as well ah and of that includes the banning uranium mines ah as well as as a commercial contracts
spk_27: a project at in that and same year ago the navy ah and i'm a two or three and new projects with the away at different sites are farmers and livermore are all of all get rolling in april so
spk_28: couture looks really good ah and that are back on be increasing i and i'm from the head with i describe of for which includes labor and supply chain issues
spk_1: are all i really behind us how it out replace lot of people ah that a billboard now for three or four months of their train the role and ah and were pretty cover the qt will be our well into a profitable range move forward
spk_29: ah fantastic sounds that sounds good
spk_2: so you mention the e p a and i've noticed that they've been moving for a lot of different projects said of kind of been delayed because of pelvic other reasons and that that the project that you mention if i remember right that you said on the probably a million dollars this year but if i remember right that's like and eighty million dollar con at over three years is that accurate
spk_3: yeah you know and
spk_2: i believe that idea q is ah a two or twenty five million dollar idea q said this three cupboard three teams were with of those teams providing always management and relatable logical services which is obvious what we do and as such really difficult to say the last time we talked a pair of that talk and myself but are are folks out others been about a dozen sites i teed up up by the care physician contractor to work to bid out in the just haven't been to procure a process i don't know the size of those or timing or finding
spk_3: but i know the feeling of the of hi ah the intent by a be a is hard to get role on he thinks this year
spk_1: in at what murray's why we're confident that that with ours technology ah in the source or and stuff that does it'll be up a very efficient ah and will be able to what you get deployed the feel will be able to keep it going so right now all contractually have signed up for that first time
spk_2: but we're pretty confident that the things going to grow ah a because the yep decontamination and and of the mission of the thing is so large okay then and on the international front and he didn't mention anything about pat but it sounded promising the last several conference cause what what's the status of that and that way i met in the day or see of a i guess them to that part of it's grip arab a or see is the italy contract that we're we're count on or of open for yeah i yeah i oh that's why i broke down or not but ah the bottom eyes were expected to hear about their seabed bit any minute and as a matter of for it is there to fit the main dollar job and it will be the kind of the seed for our our overall european strategy
spk_1: the overawed answer question i would continue to get shipments from germany our or or working with one right now to be shipped a day from croatia and slovenia as well as uk in italy so what the the more word were shipping the better we're getting at it i more fishy were getting added to deal with just districts and all the paperwork the goes with though shipping radioactive material crossed the atlantic so it if it is going very well the market is is really exploding ah and the marketing we've done has been very effective at the effect that we're getting the opportunity been allowed things ah and i'm hoping we'll see that they see
spk_2: oh announcement soon or and then was move for with that the new plant or in england or which will kind of be the centerpiece of of our european approach of their cell phone for hand for i got a couple things at first i was pleasantly surprised to hear well at least understood correctly that even if your bidding conglomerate for to lose in the packers only to but even if he were to lose that you still may get some business because of that small business clause as as part of the contract in my am understand that correct yeah that matter speculation that and in i don't know the landscape of we were to lose your who the winner is going on their team necessarily as so that's really to speculation but yet though they'll be opportunities for that again at the board understand the phone versus that ip dc is is primarily a labour ah and i'm
spk_3: the at the waist will be separate ah in that the waste oh well for example of the of lies is part of that contract
spk_0: the operator the of law and always will come out separately the separate subcontract ah in not through the i ttc to us
spk_1: so
spk_2: there we opportunity to do the ways that defined in the right moment which shot you know with is slated to come our way i want to with operational and then is other opportunities for other waste of the will likely get as well and then other opportunity for labour ah that
spk_3: in other small business opportunities along the way so yeah thanks your question there will be opportunities of as a small business most likely or with the already
spk_1: yeah you had mentioned up dead two hundred million those about my estimate as well yeah
spk_30: they appear but on annualized basis and just wondering at that would go to small businesses other how many many small businesses i did it again be that many small businesses they're doing what you do so i just there's there's none of our competitor are day they competitors which are wcs and that you energy solutions in those types of from to private companies
spk_3: ah are none of those guys a small business a you're absolutely right was a very limited small business competition with waste treatment capability and there's a few ah is a couple you're in oak ridge is really not any that are necessarily in the hamper areas to speak of this point
spk_2: but visit it's also very broad scope says other things to do have as far as what we do
spk_3: it is very limits while others competition
spk_2: in the space okay thank you so speak and of the larger competitive and some of them were mentioned in the final we're that for the to be i the your talked about earlier and that i think cut some people by surprise she with the only one that was mentioned in the one for secondary ways ah but can you explain what what the reasoning years behind him address that eric as i did get a couple question but that says week
spk_3: and what it comes down to his the we're
spk_2: references the environmental settlement that was done for nepa to the environmental settlement or the goal that document is to evaluate alternative for
spk_28: i'm the treatment of that tank waste
spk_2: in treatment disposal a so when the a look at every turned of available them it goes feasible and it look for the competition it which includes wcs and energy solutions and us acid that what what that we are referred to as the who was evaluated and the ea ah in if you look at the yeah there's a number different know of a wage and done ah
spk_28: based on risk a from transportation to safety to my moral hazard has got to think how we were the lowest risk approach because we're the only ones that are being adjacent to the site
spk_1: ah the other solutions would have to do require transportation of untreated or radioactive radioactivity of liquid i noticed to at least six hundred miles and solutions a father the is yes so obviously a perfect approach having of a silly perimeter right next door is the preferred solution but it didn't include well as defined in the evacuation up for nepa in the we're document at why than there so how would they transport that waste
spk_28: to the perfect northwest facility
spk_6: it'll be and totes ah and
spk_7: on the back of of of a large flat bed was likely ah and they'll bring over several posts know a day when or for capacity
spk_1: yeah seems like our the
spk_0: rather dangerous that take go the way to check the goalie that yeah exactly
spk_11: okay and then a i guess the final thing for me it would be on the secondary waste the had mentioned earlier as highly impressive that can revenue numbers that twice my estimates so also than twice the earnings per share that how to talk about i guess just decks make sure i understand and everyone else and it and
spk_31: so i guess your this is because of the incremental margins that you would have given your fix cars trucks is that accurate
spk_1: you have set higher margins as it's the incremental it's not just you know where your current my kinda yeah i think i think howard's fact the envelope number of this is them current and i think give back in the low numbers reasonable given
spk_3: you know our incremental margins and then as mark mention the would be some additional six costs against that number but i think come
spk_2: yeah just again back to the envelope it's pretty reasonable given those coins oh thank you guys are given a great job navigating through covered it seems glad to hear your that businesses stagnant turned the corner there and gonna be profitable and obviously potentially lucrative at the at hanford so congratulations guys thank you thank the air pressure thank you your next question is coming from anthony harpo your line at life hi guys are good morning thanks for holding the call i'm i'm a number of questions many of which are are clarification related just given their so many moving parts if you to start out with where the t i program i'm can you please clarify what price per gallon you would realistically expect to get paid or will get too deep anthony well for for the morning or into causing a thing but out generally are are established rates that we have in our emma saved our our in the low forty dollars a gallon range for the actual treatment at the actual grouting sober of a container of way shows up on our dark of the were that were not pay for transportation and we just after grow
spk_3: out it hits forty to forty five hours and again i can change based on raimi glide and the different types of waste receive with that's generally a good number ah in tv i was space if do we ah
spk_11: the contracts to us to deliver this totes i mention ah of waste to our dog
spk_2: they would likely to contract us to growl and dispose of the ways and if that's the case in we have to pay for transportation and disposal at
spk_3: an offsite the landfill
spk_31: than that price i would be closer one hundred dollars a gallon as as a we typically use a hundred dollars a gallon for the tb i than alternative to include treatment and ah disposal ah add up a lot of taxes lanford that bcs so i'm at with numbers come from so do the same rates apply to treating supplemental low activity waste from handprints tanks outside of the tv i program i seen that the same
spk_2: no they don't it's a good question i had a there are there for and and that the reason they're different as important to us and reported to the exclusivity of our our program and that is because of ago that agreements with the state this ways the secondary were coming off of vitrification which is what is defined as
spk_3: with the state as the prefer treatments alternate so what that means is africom the secondary with comes off at the of law we can put that waved in the ah local hanford landfill so a walk down the highway or the texture and and as loses are in most cases they may
spk_31: there may be some exceptions it will likely mostly or are largely go back onto the hanford site into their a gigantic beautiful new
spk_1: landfill of this designed just for this type away so ah if we will go very far away
spk_2: with to declare i'm referring to the primary waste the supplemental no actually waste you doing in tb i think once the t b i program is behind us and if this moves into the operational stage of treating the primary supplemental low activity waste or eat it with the rates that you would be getting paid he'd be the same rates per gallon the you would be getting paid and the t i program for that primary waste i will have the computers for two for way strangers one the secondary was coming up the a flaw that the when it goes back on site and then tv i would just as you said supplemental or that the tv i so that that all ah
spk_32: supplemental and that would be the hundred dollars
spk_2: okay okay so when you lay earth by whether video we has officially made a decision to grout secondary week
spk_3: that are generated by vitrification of the tanks low activity waste or whether this remains a proposal rather than an official decision
spk_21: the
spk_3: the rod amendment is at a quite a formal document
spk_33: and i'm it that defines beuys decision on how to disposition the waste come off the a flaw
spk_1: in a good to a lot of pain and suffering through the a way to get that the dock this rod amendments approved
spk_31: in that sub nautile now says and that type of thing so ah it's a pretty as a pre formal decision in my mind
spk_2: you know it
spk_3: it legal
spk_2: yep that as a as a question yeah them and in my from my perspective is the right mm it's very formal ah and their intent to sand ah the secondary west of the flaw for commercial
spk_3: ah treatment
spk_2: off like i'll fight for him okay can you please clarify whether video we has awarded the cake
spk_31: site secondary waste treatment business to you all to waste control specialists works and neither of you yet
spk_33: they have not ruled made any awards yet
spk_34: and we would not expect him to do that
spk_31: until the blankets operator very close the operating in the act about city with what they'll do on is anthony most likely that some speculation there's there's ah each your each of the and these we've mention have contracts with the tank operating contractor which at this point i was that the rps the vr piazza there and that was standing who when that tv the you are with that it is the obvious you will will get this contract or we have been or ever say with them were with the sabbath wraith that will i could be renegotiated along the way i am when the time comes from the generate that the waste
spk_2: from the of law adult they'll put out a task or i may be competitive may not be i don't know ah but they'll put out a task or or in the case of this with that there's only one company named in the rod
spk_5: it likely just be a task or will put in a price i will negotiate with us and they will go so what we have a contract and plate they'll put task orders are in place or as waste is generated ah and that contractual approach that at not courage yet and like it they won't likely occur to the of operating
spk_2: and that is a late twenty twenty four of them
spk_21: correct
spk_35: it
spk_31: okay
spk_2: ah i'm
spk_3: and so
spk_36: if you all were free the secondary way better than are generated by vitrification of the the proper can low activity waste
spk_2: i may have completely misunderstood your comments but where you implying
spk_3: based on that the revenue numbers you had mentioned earlier
spk_2: that you would realistically expect to get paid around seventy eight hundred dollars a cubic meter
spk_4: good i am i getting that math right where did i misunderstand
spk_1: yeah i have no you have a geiger from your at were generally it for a three hundred yards a few hundred cubic meters
spk_37: we're estimating
spk_38: roughly seventy million annually
spk_39: in revenue
spk_1: okay ah i'm a and regarding the i
spk_31: the
spk_2: so are you saying more that this opens that as it relates to poem affects only includes services not treatment
spk_3: i really can't talk about the procurement at all
spk_2: because has a offensive situation at this point time but ah the scope you the rp as public information and includes a managing the the facilities and waste management which would include disposition of the tank waste at the close tax so i would be up and component of scope with an that overall contract that's about all i can say about the but of a german so i'm sure you right then it will take about a forty five billion dollar contract over ten years and it is a possibility that promise six could generate services business from their contract as well as treatment business from that point
spk_31: possible that it's not a fair statement
spk_2: yes okay
spk_40: five pop up
spk_41: it's possible for both services in shape
spk_0: prep okay and then last question can you please give us an update more on the status of bureau of
spk_42: renewing your northwest facilities dangerous waste regulation permit
spk_43: yeah that that permit has been in the renewal process
spk_0: for twelve years
spk_43: so it's and ah good we continue work with the state
spk_2: and provide updates to the permit i right now a boy at the of i think we're still another year off before we get wicked we the c i a the finalized
spk_44: but it does keep us from operating what were you know we're doing we're doing what it does keep us from doing until we get the final one or it renewed his new technology like a gml system that we got a place
spk_2: we were able to run out through a tree ability study upper year so but until we get that before know we can't i do something new like that that is impacting if ah
spk_45: from for that sense but that the state is going through the process of they have the last twelve years i were open avid avid completed and about a year from rural correctly
spk_2: it doesn't preclude you from treating the ways that we've been discussing through any of these other and his shots
spk_3: now which is which as demonstrated by pbr stuff that we've already done now where we a week with the grounding all the time now
spk_2: in a similar process of ah hand that it we would not have we're not expect that that that that permit are no ah issue or delay have any impact on early we're talking about her okay thank you for each year or thank you thank you your next question is coming from ross taylor from a rs investment partners your line his life and que most shift off of hanford for that and like to talk to about a couple things one what you're looking at with things such as uranium mines and how long do you think that ends up working out what kind of opportunities at have generally what other kinds of opportunities are you saying of that sort of around the country that are starting be freed up and then i'd like to ask you to talk about what you see happening with regard to the navy the navy has a lot of on ships more nuclear capable ships look like they can be coming off line again this year they're building a but looks like a fairly interesting fleet of mothball nuclear vessels that they need to the activate and where do we stand with the ability to kind of push those major contracts for shirazi at the play program for man in my the at it was as that look at that information i want to say is like a hundred and eighty the being uranium mines that are and within this program it was our it a receiver a good slug of funding up about five years ago when these idea cube bit came out the war that more did a contract with our prime is a native american from ah and i'm in love with the the area
spk_3: i in the navajo region there are in that northeast
spk_2: arizona
spk_43: ah and
spk_2: this is the first one thing but there is a contract they hard crossed believe it's tetra tech ah that their job or it is been highly funded and and that was had funding has been i think of the a game actually spindler funding our they're gone around doing the characterization ah and surveying and of developing the
spk_3: scope for each one of those mines method for the they have twelve or eighteen done
spk_2: in next up after that regard that as a turnover ratio that to the bjp put together a procurement ah have between these three better these three awardees ah and ago so we won that first one of those ah and they're very remote locations for more money than others ah and they'll be off and running hopefully a making awards subsequent to the first one
spk_43: or through the summer summer very large summer smaller than the smaller one and i'm out but we're hopeful that once we could go on our systems will be in place and they can keep operating ah and out what once or in the field with mobilization so expensive on a of things so it's very difficult to tell yeah i know what type of funding of this year looks like that they had funding for years and years and it's all been stifled
spk_46: because the procurement i don't know for governments going to get things rolling as here not what's coming next year but the projects remain the objective remain as a lot of politics by them ah and they seem to be off and running
spk_43: like etc kick off mean for the first one his act with the pay is actually next week so
spk_2: lot more from a shown that ah by next a next earnings call or is for the navy goes up the navy's boy really get stifle to ah you know it would we report a couple years ago and this call that does the o j o and and and and may put report together they're going to it decommissioned forty eight ship thing at all those are going to be nickel or in are all going to be done and four years when nothing happened to i and about eighteen months or two years until about
spk_47: the first weekend cycling in march that industry day or the navy did his me and in the navy i corps in d c
spk_43: in one over the plans for the enterprise the be the next vessel are going to decommission are expecting an r p i believe it's the summer i end or that i'll be the next one coming some things are forming on that we're working with with compete several copies to define the right team ah they
spk_2: on the fact that get some good project calls from the ship we're doing now it's going very well i and our hope for to get on the winning team for that out our anticipate that the be quite a while but the word probably a or yourself ah and i'm
spk_3: then i think of and they will we offer running with that business model i know the nimitz aircraft carriers are also close behind the enterprise i have a few others
spk_21: names escaped with the moment
spk_43: that that will be on the list as well so i were opened with this enterprise initiative that ah it'll be kind of beginning of this this market get rolling ah end of it going on right team and right now these vessels are just sitting idol there is like for the enterprise my the state enterprises sitting at a tie i'm in the angels are in norfolk ah and either maintaining it in what has eight reactors on it for is a big job
spk_2: in a complex one or two or to make a go legs together sitting in the in the harbor there are shipyard their novel nothing wrong with that arm you talk about to competitive environment looks a lot of places you're operating he have a very limited come in number of competitors and it would seem to me that one of the risks the government run into in here is that it needs to make sure that it can he continues to have campaign of option so therefore one would expect to see some spreading a business my was not yours how do you see that environment and and is out
spk_21: not incorrect read that given the limited number of people who can do what you do that basically overtime everyone needs to win some
spk_24: i should like to think that we're off
spk_2: ah that that the know the government but that even the primes at that same perspective you have one company gets all the work that that can be you want a competitive market i end up the with really understand that i think yeah i think they they consider that i don't know how they consider and his big global initiative ah but i do believe that the case and and that everyone incentive to the coming into man and understand the importance of spreading around as well together at the good
spk_48: objective
spk_43: oh in areas where perhaps the other side the other one there might be some unbiased are some potential killed to the idea of keeping your consortium in your team in in the game otherwise you risk losing the capability entirely
spk_0: yeah that
spk_3: that at it i just don't understand how this can all play out with this a work at it is so large
spk_31: and them to but up
spk_2: we're certainly i have a long term mission at in the ritalin area up there ah and i'm very unique capability that other folks or have ah so we're i would expect no matter what happened our expect to be a player or on the way street without house
spk_3: for the long term with with that contractor them and just a quick common and odyssey you mentioned some the rail transport though honestly everyone knows about what went on and ohio but i thought it was interesting there's a lawsuit by a native american nation against the burlington northern santa fe foreign oil train derailment
spk_2: number years ago i think was back and twenty fifteen that just after that trial started burlington northern santa fe derailed another train on that it that nations property or lands saw thought dad does highlight the fact that any time you put anything on a train and hard someplace bad things can happen
spk_3: ombudsman which obviously increases the risk is saw and the cost of the project
spk_24: otherwise i think it sounds like what you're saying that a lot of this i noticed the tenses that you're using a lot of the tenses you're using are not
spk_3: but michael hopeful tenses but expected tenses that you see this happening and you see this is really like the game at in it's not the game might change it's the game has changed in it is changing and that dad those pieces are already moving the rocks are already sliding is that a correct read
spk_2: well you know brothel if we have to be careful to that repeal as pokery the only speculate on these things up but ah the so there is risk obviously we we all know know that going into the but what what perfect to try to do the last seven years
spk_3: regularly or is to good made big iron and the far as we possibly can with the hope that a couple of more willow will will ah and ah
spk_1: the one thing i am ah
spk_11: very confident about his is that the rod the came out ah that everyone is common and on ah is what could be viewed to large degree as a command by the away the ship with that waste there is worth that plan you have to get up and running ah and operate ah but that the pre pretty big member they made ah to or to commercialize or through local capabilities
spk_7: that secondary was from the of law so oh we're up
spk_1: or more optimistic than usual hobbies the ip the c and hour them as or procurements they can go either way ah and we can be the really like you're not lucky other we feel like we've got enough other things going on that will continue to suit the growth we had before covered ah irrespective of those wins ah and hopefully this is wins to a tramp transfer warmest if we can get a couple right now sounds like they should be transformational and i would think epub every sunday more optimistic than you just sounded that thank you very much the give
spk_49: thank you your next question is coming from stephen fine from fine llc your line is life
spk_11: good afternoon how are you guys both the and definite ah i have a scripted calm and that i got two questions prior to at number one imagine there were rob
spk_1: labour problem or your are they being rectified or rectified yeah what or come that is the particularly at hanford but also an oak ridge delia seen up as every manufacturing and a really a theme a big gap in
spk_49: labour ah and are particularly with the union folks ah and
spk_11: they've been hiring hundreds and in some cases thousands of people ah and arm
spk_1: ah we've lost a number of of folks at both after facility in oak ridge facility at to the large ideally facilities at your level of better benefits our pair of pays pretty similar but other advantages and disadvantages ah between each each that far but would have the big poll from those ah
spk_31: hiring an issue as we did lose a lot of folks particularly lot of folks at an for ah and that are happen and queue for i thoroughly coupon got worse and his first with two weeks in december
spk_1: ha and i'm a really impact of in hanford up between the holidays ah we've hired a sense that we hired in december or very quickly were able to find folks are they good require lot training or but they've been or sense ah and our gerrymanders role here in a bridge at this week for an offsite the all reporter that ah that labour that been an issue they've not been issued the month of march for to curly ah and most of february i am that work we've got to label pipeline of labor issues minus
spk_49: that i'm in my next question before i read when i wrote on in in the right up it said there was one point two million written off on the medical ah but where does that all a now i'm saying what that was fun but i have heard that too
spk_1: i hadn't had is that it had that impact the young this that yeah the financials and eat some for what is that that one point to me last or it now on him yeah the that was all last year twenty twenty one and net net it with zero because it was out with him it was within the entity film higher medical segments it was basically writing off money we've invested into the medical segments so premise six environmental take the last one medical get the again from the right off and so it it's a wash and consolidation okay thanks i am going to read a statement
spk_49: i've lived in fluff your company and done
spk_1: you know hopefully this will be informational on i just wanted to applaud the progress and actions of perma sex and that vein i would like to express my thought on today's unique potential permit picks in two thousand and six i was introduced the premise decks and as the do due diligence on the company or mom i'm three degrees i'm an engineer named yet i with the has it has chemical manufacture for many years i was a government contract but also a business and find consultants who throughout my career assimilated various technical businesses than opportunities in either commercialize ran allies and record immediately surveying from fix i realized or for plants at the time and two thousand and sixteen were essentially non duper couple because of the plant people relate with radiation permits and unique ability to handle low next radiation wags the infrastructure and it's capabilities to not be understated in it you weakness in you since two thousand and sixteen i have watched help our mistakes has moved to diversify in a multitude of various beyond those the pampered clearly parma takes a table being a one hundred fifty million dollar plus company without tamper with three been in service segments is went to a wide array the possibility immediately when i started putting the hand for reservation and basically the bitter case you plant being built i find the with the guest of a thirty years not one gallon have been treated from the sixty six million gallons of mixed nuclear waste sitting in the hundred and seventy tags and twenty twenty two there was one point five billion dollars spent on maintaining the waste in the tank and building the the floor plan to treat low level way i immediately understood that night extend the ways in the tank was low radioactive waste a more suitable for three and by a the and then solidifying with concrete this has been done in savannah for decades since ninety ninety two parma fix has treated millions of gallons of mix radioactive waste by a mobilizing and and solidifying with an appropriate concrete a dozen be late question has that initiative and it's purpose the just the there could be a quick repair for treatment by from the fix the weights and the tags become even larger as the must be liquefied before treatment so arguably they can be two to four times more ways to treat various sources the e a l and r s n a n n a s have stated it will take in any treatment way
spk_2: sixty to seventy years to tweet the tank ways a study completed by diego last spammer states are mobilizing and solidifying the concrete will save tens of billions the towers the national academy of science weasley states are mobilizing as then solidifying with concrete and off state facility and
spk_50: barry your site would would push treatment for ten years thereby taking pressure from leaky tanks they sent the top paid moving towards building a plan to treat the high level way it will also ensure preservation of grab what i am pro with your that it existed in the tank farm system called the tanks
spk_2: i said you remove new you a tesco the test separate high and low wage after three phases the filtering the product remaining is a watery nick hazardous and low radiation product radiations no more than one would experience and medical fact that is ready for treatment the fisker can do seventy two hundred gallons per day
spk_1: day and thus there was over three hundred gallons sitting in a p tag today the nature of this product has been generally not deterred by last summer i was exposed to encore studies the vitrification vs grounding the name used for that in grabbing the name used for the concrete process but they underscore a misnomer because it has confounded with just covering ways with concrete and not immobilizing as permit that's what do these studies were completed in the summer of twenty twenty one by laura cray who works were washington river protection system the hamper tank clock plant contract a charger maintaining the tank way miss crew chose to use a million million gallons samples for each mode of treatment for grappling i will use always was trade it and there was no secondary wedge no heat and shoots there was no diesel copious amounts of water or has it's chemical the process is the more environmentally clean the data miss great use with supplied by so that which as they did they have been grappling
spk_2: for years grabbing as one tenth the cause of better by so they had i had one reactor so than argued that are hazardous waste more homogeneous while at hanford there were a number reactors and that's a multitude of has displaced the truth
spk_3: former texas stated that he can or has treated the hazards of ways listed in the one that one hundred and seventy that dr jim carter with a phd in geochemistry and is well known ashley states there should be no issue and treating the multitude of hazardous waste
spk_2: for the vitrification one million dollar model about three hundred and forty thousand and doubt that's only one third was bitter fight and the other two thirds with secondary ways that has to be treated them ways other than vitrification data was supplied relevant some han a hamper contractors building the bit or case blessed with vitrification occasionally or requires two thousand degrees fahrenheit three million gallons of diesel fuel which drugs or over to sept twenty thousand metric tons of c o two two million gallons of water which mainly is contaminated the become secondary way a hundred fifty one truckloads of has it's can
spk_3: because the amount of energy use will energize the team thousand homes
spk_2: there was a statement the vitrification could cause thirty six hi consequence hazard the model used soon the seventy percent efficiency but the education plants typically have efficiencies around forty percent and they should take longer be more expensive and possibly worse and the bit interpretation outlets have a thick now three hundred thousand gallons per year which is equivalent to one million gallons of input of way into the bits are catered plan as maybe one third will be better by parma kit permit takes has related they can scale up to three million are treated gallons per year this is equivalent the nine
spk_0: million gallons of ways in put it into the vitrification plan and note the vitrification plant with create six million gallons a secondary way

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