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spk00: question, you may do so by pressing star followed by one on your telephone keypad. I'm now going to hand over to Dan J. Schreider, President and CEO, to begin. Dan, please go ahead.
spk02: Thanks, Jordan. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining our call to discuss Sandy Spring Bancorp's performance for the third quarter of 2023. This is Dan Schreider, and I'm joined here by my colleagues Phil Mantua, Chief Financial Officer and Aaron Caslow, General Counsel and Chief Administrative Officer. Today's call is open to all investors, analysts, and the media. There's a live webcast of today's call, and a replay will be available on our website later today. Before we get started covering highlights from the quarter and then moving to your questions, Aaron will give the customary safe harbor statement.
spk01: Thank you, Dan. Good afternoon, everyone. Sandy Spring Bank Corp. will make forward-looking statements in this webcast that are subject to risks and uncertainties. These forward-looking statements include statements of goals, intentions, earnings, and other expectations, estimates of risks and future costs and benefits, assessments of expected credit losses, assessments of market risk, and statements of the ability to achieve financial and other goals. These forward-looking statements are subject to significant uncertainties because they are based upon or affected by management's estimates and projections of future interest rates, market behavior, other economic conditions, future laws and regulations, and a variety of other matters which, by their very nature, are subject to significant uncertainties. Because of these uncertainties, Sandy Spring Bancorp's actual future results may differ materially from those indicated. In addition, the company's past results of operations do not necessarily indicate its future results.
spk02: Thanks, Aaron. When we spoke with you last quarter, we underscored that some of our most pressing priorities included growing core funding, improving liquidity, and expanding our client base. And I'm pleased to report today that we're showing impressive results on all of those fronts. These gains are not only important to our performance today, but they pave a way for us to continue to deepen and expand our client base in the future. We're also moving the needle on key metrics, such as reducing our loan-to-deposit ratio and commercial real estate concentration, as well as our reliance on non-core funding. And additionally, our credit quality remains very strong as we enter this season of greater economic uncertainty. And to add to this momentum, we are preparing to launch this month a more sophisticated, secure, and user-friendly digital banking platform. This platform will give our clients more control and make it easier for them to bank when and how they want to bank with us. This enhancement comes on the heels of an improved online account opening platform that we launched just six months ago. Between our highly competitive products, talented bankers, and now seamless account opening process, We achieved over 1% client-based growth this quarter, representing over 1,500 new clients to our bank. So we're already gaining traction and seeing results, and we're confident these investments will continue to unlock additional growth opportunities for us. So with that, let's review third quarter financial results. Today we reported net income of $20.7 million, or $0.46 per diluted common share, for the quarter ended September 30th, compared to net income of 24.7 or 55 cents per diluted common share for the second quarter and 33.6 million or 75 cents per diluted common share for the third quarter of 2022. The decline in the current quarter's net income compared to the linked quarter was a result of the one-time pension settlement expense associated with the previously disclosed termination of the company's pension plan, coupled with lower net interest income. Current quarter core earnings were $27.8 million or $0.62 per diluted common share compared to $27.1 million or $0.60 per diluted common share for the previous quarter and $35.7 million or $0.80 per diluted common share for the quarter ended September 30, 2022. The increase in core earnings compared to the previous quarter was a result of the lower provision for credit losses, lower salaries and employee benefit expense and lower marketing expenses, offset by reduced net interest income. The provision for credit losses directly attributable to the funded loan portfolio for the current quarter was $3.2 million compared to $4.5 million in the prior quarter and $14.1 million in the prior year quarter. This quarter's provision was primarily a result of increases in individual reserves on a few commercial lending relationships which were partially offset by a qualitative adjustment related to the reduced probability of recession. Additionally, during the current quarter, the company reduced its reserve for unfunded commitments by $800,000 as a result of higher utilization of lines of credit. Shifting to the balance sheet, total assets remained stable at $14.1 billion compared to $14 billion at June 30. Total loans declined by $69.3 million, or 1%. to $11.3 billion at September 30 compared to $11.4 billion at June 30, 2023. Total commercial real estate and business loans declined $79.2 million quarter-over-quarter due to a $107 million, or 10%, decline in the AD&C portfolio. Investor and owner-occupied commercial real estate loan portfolios remained relatively unchanged, and commercial business loans and lines increased $31.1 million, or 2%. Residential mortgage loans grew 16 million, or 1%, mainly due to the migration of construction loans into the permanent residential mortgage portfolio. Overall, the loan portfolio mix remained relatively unchanged compared to the previous quarter. Commercial loan production totaled 323 million, yielding 96 million in funded production. This compared to commercial loan production of 313 million, yielding $160 million in funded production in the second quarter of the year. Given softer loan demand as a result of both the rate and economic environment, we expect funded loan production to fall between $100 and $200 million per quarter over the next couple quarters. While we continue to focus on the deposit acquisition and retention side, we're closely monitoring loan demand and core deposit growth to determine the appropriate level of funded loan activity. Pages 22 through 24 of our supplemental deck provide more detail on the composition of our loan portfolios, the granularity on our commercial real estate portfolio, and specific commercial real estate composition in the urban markets of D.C. and Baltimore. Shifting to deposits, total deposits increased 192.1 million, or 2%, to $11.2 billion compared to $11 billion at June 30th. During this period, total interest-bearing deposits increased 258.1 million, or 3%, while non-interest-bearing deposits declined 66 million, or 2%. Growth in interest-bearing deposit categories was driven by savings accounts and core time deposits, which increased by 277.4 million and 263.7 million, respectively. These increases were partially offset by the $155.8 million decrease in broker time deposits as we reduced our reliance on wholesale funding sources and the $177.5 million decrease in money market accounts. So excluding broker deposits, total deposits increased $349.5 million, or 4% quarter over quarter, and represented 90% of total deposits, compared to 88% in the linked quarter, reflecting the continued stability of the core deposit base. The deposit growth during the quarter resulted in the loan-to-deposit ratio declining to 101% at September 30 from 104% at June 30, 2023. Total uninsured deposits at September 30 were approximately 33% of total deposits. As I've shared in prior quarters, we continue to offer our customers reciprocal deposit arrangements, which provide FDIC deposit insurance for accounts that would otherwise exceed deposit insurance limits. During the quarter ended September 30, 2023, balances in the company's reciprocal deposit accounts increased by $131.6 million. Slide 17 of the supplemental deck provides more color on our commercial deposit portfolio, which represents 58% of total core deposits, the majority of which is in a combination of non-interest-bearing and money market accounts. With an average length of relationship of nine and a half years, the portfolio is well diversified with no concentration in a single industry or single client. Likewise, on slide 19 of the supplemental deck, you can see the breakdown of our retail deposit book. With an average length of 11 and a half years, the retail deposit portfolio represents 42% of our core deposit base with no single client accounting for more than 2% of total deposits. Total borrowings declined by $57.8 million, or 4% at September 30, compared to the previous quarter, driven by a $50 million reduction in FHLB advances. The outstanding balance of borrowings through the Fed's bank term funding program remained unchanged at $300 million at quarter end. At September 30, contingent liquidity, which consists of available FHLB borrowings, Fed funds, Funds through the bank term funding program, as well as SX cash and unpledged investment securities, totaled $6.1 billion, or 168% of uninsured deposits. At September 30, total cash and cash equivalents were $717.6 million, an increase of $287.5 million, or 67%, compared to the linked quarter, primarily a result of the strong deposit growth I mentioned earlier. Non-interest income for the third quarter of 2023 increased by 1% or $200,000 compared to the link quarter and grew by 3% or half a million dollars compared to the prior year quarter. The current quarter's increase was driven by higher wealth management income and higher lending-related fees and was partially offset by lower BOLI income due to mortality proceeds received in the second quarter. Income from mortgage banking activities decreased $135,000 compared to the link quarter and total mortgage loans grew 47 million. Future levels of mortgage gain revenue is expected to fall between a million and a million and a half in the fourth and first quarters. Wealth management income increased 360,000 to 9.4 million, and assets under management at quarter end totaled 5.6 billion, representing a 3% decrease since June 30. For the third quarter of 2023, the net interest margin was 255 compared to 273 for the second quarter of 2023 and 353 for the third quarter of 2022. As we shared last quarter, the margin continues to be impacted by high market rates, fierce deposit competition, and clients moving excess funds out of non-interest-bearing accounts. Compared to the linked quarter, the rate paid on interest-bearing liabilities rode 36 basis points. while the yield on interest-earning assets increased eight basis points, resulting in the quarterly margin compression of 18 basis points. The margin for the month of September came in at 2.5 percent. We anticipate the margin will compress in the high 240s in the fourth quarter and potentially maintain a similar level in the first quarter of 2024. We would look for five to seven basis points of margin expansion per quarter for the rest of 2024. This expectation is predicated on one more Fed bump of 25 basis points before year end and then no further increases or any rate cuts throughout 2024. Non-interest expense increased 3.3 million or 5% compared to the link quarter and 6.7 million or 10% compared to the prior year quarter. As I stated earlier in the call, this quarter included a one-time $8.2 million pension settlement expense related to the termination of our defined benefit plan. And the previous quarter included $1.9 million of severance-related expense associated with staffing adjustments. So excluding these items from the current and previous quarter, total non-interest expense declined by $2.9 million, or 4%, driven by lower expenses associated with salaries, employee benefits expense, and marketing. Excluding the pension settlement costs, third quarter expenses total approximately $64.3 million. The fourth quarter run rate of expenses will include some additional spends related to our technology initiatives as certain capitalized costs and related current period costs are expected to be recognized. 2024 expense levels are currently being evaluated as part of our annual planning process with the current expectation for overall core expenses. excluding the pension and severance-related costs, to increase by no more than 3 to 4 percent on a year-over-year basis. The non-GAAP efficiency ratio was 60.91 for the third quarter of 2023 compared to 60.68 for the second quarter of 2023 and 48.18 for the prior year quarter. Both GAAP and non-GAAP efficiency ratios have been negatively impacted by the declines in net revenue and growth in non-interest expense as we continue to invest in the future. So while the recognition of our technology investments comes at an inopportune time when revenue is under pressure, we will be well positioned to grow using newly introduced digital capabilities as the rate environment improves, the shape of the yield curve normalizes, and the economy expands. So let's shift to credit quality. Overall, credit quality remained stable as the ratio of nonperforming loans to total loans was 46 basis points compared to 44 basis points last quarter. These level of nonperformers compare to 40 basis points for the prior year quarter and continue to indicate stable credit quality during this period of economic uncertainty. At September 30, nonperforming loans totaled $51.8 million compared to $49.5 million at June 30. and $44.5 million at September 30, 2022. Total net charge-offs for the current quarter amounted to $100,000 compared to $1.8 million for the second quarter of 2023 and a half a million of net recoveries in the third quarter of 2022. The allowance for credit losses was $123.4 million or 1.09% of outstanding loans and 238% of non-performing loans. compared to 120.3 million, or 1.06% of outstanding loans, and a coverage ratio of 243% at the end of the previous quarter. At September 30, the company had a total risk-based capital ratio of 14.85, a common equity Tier 1 risk-based capital ratio of 10.83, a Tier 1 risk-based ratio of the same 10.83, and a Tier 1 leverage ratio of 9.5%. And all of these ratios remain in excess of the mandated minimum regulatory requirements. And before we move to your questions, I'd like to acknowledge a leadership announcement that we made last month. Our Chief Financial Officer, Phil Mantua, will retire from the bank at the end of March 2024. As you all know on the call, throughout Phil's 24-year tenure, he's played an instrumental role in our growth, and we all want to extend our sincere appreciation and congratulations to Phil. And we are actively interviewing for his successor. So please stay tuned. And with that, Jordan, we can move to our first question.
spk00: Thank you. As a reminder, if you'd like to register an audio question, please press star followed by one on your telephone keypad. If you change your mind, please press star followed by two. And please ensure you're unmuted when speaking. Our first question comes from Russell Gunfer of Stevens. Russell, the line is yours.
spk05: Hey, good afternoon, guys. Hi, Russell.
spk03: Hey, Russell.
spk05: Hey, I wanted to start on loan balances. So I hear you on the funded production for the next couple quarters, down a bit from where we've been the past few. What are the guideposts we should be looking for in terms of when you might be able to hit the switch to more net loan growth? Deposits are improving, wholesale funding is coming down, but What more do we do we need to see?
spk02: Yeah, Russell, this is Dan and Phil might chime in as well. You know, the last couple of quarters, we've kind of targeted funded loan production to kind of match runoff as we were working on improving the liquidity position, which we've done. Our appetite for funded loan production is higher than that 150 now. I think it's really more of a function of demand and demand that is rationally priced. So we could probably today move to $250 million in funded production, which would net out at about $100 million of growth a quarter. But demand, the uncertainty in the economy has really softened demand, and there are still some players on the smaller bank side that are not pricing commensurate with today's yield curve. we're picking our spots and as soon as we see availability in the market, you know, we're prepared today to increase that funded loan production.
spk05: Okay, that's very helpful color, Dan. Thank you. Just switching gears to the margin, appreciate the outlook there. Given the higher state of funding to date, how would you think about the NIN, you know, absence of Fed hike and then kind of similarly a question, What do rate cuts mean to you? And I know that that's not something you're currently contemplating.
spk03: Yeah, Russell, this is Phil. I don't know that that next anticipated 25 basis point move really or absence thereof really makes a whole lot of difference in our current thinking about where the NIM goes in the next quarter or two. We have already just in terms of now having experienced some nice pick-up in growth and growth in categories that we would like to see on the deposit side, pulled back on some of the rates that we're currently offering on the high end. So, for example, we had been running a 5.5% CD offering, I think it was an eight-month CD, for a number of months. We've pulled that back completely and other things by at least 50 basis points to test whether or not we can try to preserve a little bit of margin here, even in the face of the possibility of the Fed making that move. So either way, I think that the guidance here into that high 240s takes kind of all of that into consideration. And then from the standpoint of looking into 24, as Stan mentioned in his comments, you know, without anything else going on from the Fed standpoint, five to seven basis points in pickups, certainly that can be accelerated when and if they decide to cut rates, because I think we would be pretty quick to try to follow that downward trend. And then that expansion might be more like double what we suggested, five to seven being more like 10 to 15. And I think we've commented on that in the past as it relates to a margin pickup quarter over quarter. you know, like what we saw on the way up. Depends on how quickly they cut and, you know, what chunks they cut on the way down, which probably clearly won't be as nearly as aggressive as what we saw on the way up.
spk05: All right, Phil, thank you. And then just last one for me on the expense side of things. Sorry if I missed it, but your thoughts on For Q, I mean, great result this quarter getting the cost saved. Just what type of step up do you expect to see from the digital transformation that comes online? And I know you're working through 24, but just bigger picture, does this tech then, you know, step you up beyond, you know, perhaps just an inflationary growth rate, or how should we directionally think of non-interest expense going forward?
spk03: Yeah, Russell, good question. So the technology piece that relates to what's coming on board here in the fourth quarter as we put things into motion is probably on a run rate basis about a million dollars quarter to quarter. And then in addition to that, in the fourth quarter, there are costs of just doing this, that initial kickoff, which is probably worth another half a million dollars. That part shouldn't reoccur. But the cost that's related to just the, you know, the ongoing element of bringing that what's been, you know, on a CapEx basis into the run rate is probably about $1 million into the fourth quarter and beyond. And then from that point on, looking at the inflationary piece as well as where we've guided towards that 3 to 4% into, you know, year over year relative to 2024 to 2023. So that's been taken into consideration.
spk05: Okay, great. Thank you, Phil. That's it for me, guys. Thanks for taking my question.
spk03: Sure. Sure. Thanks, Russell. Thanks, Russ.
spk00: Our next question comes from Casey Whitman of Piper Sandler. Casey, please go ahead. Hey, good afternoon.
spk04: Hi, Casey.
spk07: Just going back to the margin, maybe if we just switch gears to the asset side, First, can you kind of ballpark where new loan production is coming on or where it was in the month of September?
spk03: Yeah, I'd be glad to. So overall commercial pricing, average yield on all production during the month of September was around eight and a quarter. And it has been at that level for a couple of months here. And so we would anticipate, again, given that we want to you know, price appropriately for the growth or the production that we are willing to take on, would like to see it in that same vein. And with that, about 80 to 85% of that production at those levels was variable or floating rate in nature.
spk07: Okay. And so maybe can you walk us through sort of the quarterly repricing we can expect to see on the loan side just in a static rate environment to get to sort of your margin expectations for 2054?
spk03: Yeah. So on the asset side, it relates to what would help feed that five to seven basis points to the margin. On the loan side, it would probably be, if we look into the fourth quarter and beyond, we probably see a pickup of about 8 to 10 basis points in the next quarter and then probably similar to the margin, 5 to 7 basis points on a quarter-by-quarter basis.
spk07: All right. And then switching gears, just as the environment maybe stabilizes a bit and just given your growth outlook, what's your current appetite for buybacks? at the stock price or what would it take for you to get more aggressive there?
spk02: Yeah, Casey, this is Dan. I think we, you know, I think we mentioned the last time we continue to have an authorization out there and it's probably more a function of, you know, looking for the next couple of quarters and making sure we feel as confident as we do today with regard to the credit environment. So I would say sitting here at the moment, there's a lot of uncertainty out there. It's become more uncertain with world events. And so I think capital is pretty important. But we could feel different in the short run and be active, particularly at where we're trading right now.
spk07: Understood. And just going back, this is just thinking about the loan deposit ratio. Obviously, that came down this quarter, but do you have a spot where you're kind of comfortable with that running? And how does that kind of play into the outlook, the loan growth outlook?
spk03: Yeah, Casey, this is Phil. I think we're very comfortable right where we are today. We're hovering around 100%. I think as we move forward in time, and not, you know, any time being immediately thereafter, you know, we would probably want to manage it further down into the mid-90% range, but again, not any quarter, you know, in the more, you know, current couple of quarters out. So I think you would probably expect with what we were just talking about, margin-wise and otherwise, to see it staying around 100%, kind of around the 100% level.
spk00: Makes sense. Thank you.
spk01: You're welcome.
spk00: Our next question comes from Catherine Meador of KBW. Catherine, the line is yours.
spk06: Thanks. I just wanted to ask a quick clarifying question on the expense guide you gave, Dan. So when you said 3% to 4% growth in 24 for 23, I thought you said it included the pension expense. Or did you mean that off of an operating expense number?
spk02: Yeah. Yeah. It was netting out the pension expense number.
spk06: Great.
spk02: Okay.
spk06: So take that out and then that's all right. I didn't want to grow it up to the 275 number.
spk03: You want to take the pension and the severance costs from this year, which are roughly $10 million away from the base for 23, and then apply the three to 4% growth rate on that number.
spk06: Great. Okay. Okay. And are there any, and that's, you know, that's still relative to the, to where your revenue is, you know, that still potentially could give you a year of negative operating leverage, just depending on, you know, how things go with the margin. Are there other things you can do on the expense side? You know, if revenue still seems really challenging next year, or is there just, We just need to kind of wait until we get in a better right environment to really see us pull back into positive operating leverage mode.
spk02: Yeah, Catherine, there are always things that we can continue to look at, and we will. I don't have anything to announce today, but between continued looking at headcount in certain areas, branch rationalization, those things tend to take a little more time. But I think the real turn of performance is going to come in a better rate environment in all reality.
spk03: Yeah, I would agree. I mean, that's kind of, you know, things that Dan's suggesting and maybe some other things that we could consider. Kind of what was alluded to in the, you know, part of the planning process comment early into the call was, you know, we're evaluating all the different things that we might have at our disposal. I think when it's all said and done, the puts and takes, I think that's kind of where we think we're going to end up.
spk06: Okay, understood. And then on credit, you talked about just a couple of specific reserves coming on or some commercial loans. Can you just give us some commentary on kind of what you're seeing on those credits that are seeing incremental stress and then any change to classifieds or credit-sized loans that we should be aware about this quarter as well?
spk02: Yeah, trends in Criticized Classified still are non-events, Catherine. I hate to refer to anything happening in credit as a one-off because it just comes back to bite you in the butt. But what we are seeing thus far are, I'll give you a little color, a real estate loan that owner gets notified that a tenant is not going to renew, but that's still a year out and we're recognizing that if they don't, then there could be cash flow issues and as a result, taking a conservative approach to setting aside some reserves. That's an example. We're not seeing anything thematically. If you think about our book, we've talked a lot about office, which for us is predominantly suburban with minimal exposure in the urban areas and, most importantly, mostly professional office space with a number of units that are a little easier to turn as opposed to large floor plate type of exposure. So I think the risk we're trying to understand and manage in that is probably more around rates higher for longer as that book reprices over the course of time than than what we're seeing from an occupancy standpoint in near term. Our hospitality portfolio, I think, weathered very well during the pandemic, and that continues to perform. Our retail portfolio, which is the largest exposure within Cree, also performed extremely well during the pandemic when it was under some pressure when everybody was locked up at home. So we're continuing to look out 12, 24 months. It's what's coming on the repricing side and getting ahead of that. And then doing the same with, we have a multifamily portfolio that with some coming out of construction into PERM and monitoring those absorption rates compared to what was expected. And some of those are getting extended out, but we've got credible borrowers and guarantors that can stand behind that. I mean, I think it's realistic that over the course of time, if we end up in more of a credit cycle, there's going to be scratches and dents as we drive through that. But we're not seeing anything thematically that gives us concern about our reserve levels, our percentage of non-performance coverage, and the like. So the team's doing a good job. But we'll continue to be transparent with you if we see things changing, as we have been in the past.
spk06: Great. And then maybe if I could ask one last one, just on deposit remix, it was nice to see the non-interest bearing mix shifts flow a little bit from the levels we've seen earlier in the year. What's your, I know it's hard to know, but what's your gut on where that kind of percentage of the percentage of deposits balances out?
spk03: Yeah, Casey, this is Phil again. I think, I'm sorry, Catherine, my bad. I think we feel like that the DDA piece has stabilized now to a good place. I'm not sure we anticipate a lot of growth necessarily there in the short term, but I also think we're pretty confident we're not going to see much more of the, to your question, the remix of the DDA declining from its current levels around 27, 28% of total deposits. If anything, the remix kind of behind the scene is that we continue to allow the broker wholesale money to run down and run off the balance sheet, which is already occurring through the current quarter, where we've already had an additional $100 million roll off, and there's another $150 million scheduled to mature that we don't plan to re-engage on because we're still seeing really good growth in those other interest-bearing categories. So that's probably more where we see the remix than anything related to DDA. But again, we feel good about where it's landed and that it's fairly stable.
spk06: Great. All right, that's all I got. And congrats on your retirement, Phil.
spk03: Thank you. Thank you, Catherine.
spk00: Our next question comes from Manuel Malas of DA Davidson. Manuel, please go ahead.
spk04: Hey, guys. In your NIM outlook for kind of the turn into next year, does that assume any difference in the rate of growth on the loan side?
spk03: No, not really, Manuel. This is Phil. No, I think that's implied at this point as well is the general guidance as it relates to just matching off with funding at the moment. Maturity. Got it. So it's all driven by that.
spk04: It's all driven by that. Low rate pricing.
spk03: Correct.
spk04: And should we just kind of assume a beta that kind of matches that guide? Do you have kind of a rough... deposit beta peak with that NIM assumption?
spk03: Yeah, I would say that, you know, in terms of, you know, looking at the forward aspect of the deposit side, I mean, it's clearly, as it has been here, a much slower pull in terms of the overall movement in the cost of interest-bearing deposits. So I would think it's, again, similar to four or five BIPs quarter to quarter within that on the funding side as well, just again because of some of the remix that I mentioned earlier. and our desire to try to control it at this point, given my earlier comments about pullback on the rates.
spk04: That was great. That's going to lead into kind of my next question. So you pulled back on rates, and it sounds like you're easily feeling good about running off some of the broker deposits. So you pulled back on rates, and you're still seeing success on the promotions is what I'm trying to get to.
spk03: yeah i mean that's still got to play itself out that's just kind of you know current current um practice here within the last couple of weeks so we've got we've got to see that we can prove that out but that is the current thinking behind um you know the way we're looking at it for the foreseeable future yes with the savings growth and the cd growth uh you've been experimenting with different channels over the last couple quarters what what channel has kind of worked best i know there was a um
spk04: at the periphery of your footprint, and there's been a lot of RM outreach in your branches. What channel has kind of driven this deposit growth most?
spk02: Yeah, Manuel, this is Dan. Good afternoon. I think it's really been a blend of things. We've had success with our online storefront that we launched earlier in the year, and that's generated about 1,800 new accounts over the course of the year, not just the quarter. And it's been more than half of that has been new client balances coming in. But at the same time, we've used some digital outreach to prospective clients through some data that we combined with internal data and some purchase information to reach out specifically to kind of the affluent client that or the heavy depositor client in the marketplace and we've had tremendous success in bringing dollars into that and so that's been digital outreach with branch person follow-up and that's probably been the biggest piece and then third would be the activities from the commercial bankers who quite frankly ever since the end of the first quarter you know with SVB failure And what followed was a much greater outreach and connectivity to our commercial deposit base, initially from a retention standpoint, but the follow-on activity has been growth in those deposit relationships and expanding them. So I would say it's more than one initiative, but all three have been additive.
spk03: Yeah. Well, I would also add that that high-yield savings growth, which is really that balance really, to date, more than doubled, has been on a non-advertised basis. So as Dan outlined, it's been direct, more direct marketing and contact than it was any kind of an advertised type of special, and we still had that kind of significant success.
spk04: I really appreciate the color here. On the commercial lender piece, that's That's great. Is there kind of a pipeline expected there? Is that something you can – I know it's lumpy, I'm sure. Is there a way to kind of quantify kind of the pipeline there and kind of overall deposit growth over into next year?
spk02: I don't think there's a way to quantify it as we look forward other than to say that the commercial – I think we've gone from this is probably an easy way to say it, commercial lenders to commercial bankers. And that's not a criticism of the bankers. For the last, obviously, several years, the focus has been on asset growth because funding it was not an issue. And the world changed. And so they have done a tremendous job of really changing and shifting focus to include deposit gathering along with asset generation. And that will continue. And that's been built into their reward mechanisms in terms of incentive plans and pipeline management and overall expectations of production. So that's not going to change as we go into 2024.
spk04: I appreciate that. My last question is, Is talent acquisition still an important driver, or do you kind of feel that you've shifted behaviors among your now commercial banker base that you feel comfortable with it as it stands at least through 2024?
spk02: Yeah, I think the shift in expectation and behavior has been really solid, but we will always be looking for folks that will help us expand client relationships, not just in commercial banking and CNI specifically, but also in the wealth space. Now, the challenge for us is to make sure we're doing that while maintaining our overall headcount at a reasonable level to fit that expense growth expectation that Phil spoke of. So I think we always have to be open to adding good talent to the organization.
spk04: Thank you for the commentary.
spk02: Thanks, Manuel. Thank you.
spk00: As a reminder, that's star followed by one to register a question. Our next question is a follow-up from Russell Gunther of Stevens. Russell, please go ahead.
spk05: Hey, guys. Thanks for taking it. I just forgot to ask you earlier. We have seen some hiccups in shared national credits this quarter industry-wide. I just was hoping for some commentary about your thoughts on the ethnic class and then what your exposure is today.
spk02: We do not. We do have a participation book right now. Our total participations bought is just north of 186 million, but they are all Like club deals with local banks, we've helped out and vice versa. On the flip side, we have about $250 million that have been put out in terms of sole participations, but we're not active in SNCC business.
spk05: That's great. All right. Thanks, Dan. Thanks for taking the follow-up, guys. Sure.
spk00: We have no further questions on the phone line, so I'll hand back to Dan for any closing remarks.
spk02: Thank you, Jordan. Thanks, everyone, for joining today's call. And we'd love your feedback if there's things we could do to make our call more effective. So please reach out. But thanks again for your time and have a great afternoon.
spk00: Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's call. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect your lines.
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