UMB Financial Corporation

Good morning. Thank you for attending today's UMB Financial Third Quarter 2022 Results Conference Call. My name is Forum, and I will be your moderator for today's call. All lines will remain muted during the presentation portion of the call, with an opportunity for questions and answers at the end. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. It is now my pleasure to pass the call over to our host, Kay Gregory, UMB Investor Relations.

Good morning, and welcome to our third quarter call. Mariner Kemper, President and CEO, and Ram Chandra, CFO, will share a few comments about our results. Jim Rhine, CEO of UMB Bank, and Tom Terry, Chief Credit Officer, will also be available for the question and answer session. Before we begin, let me remind you that today's presentation contains forward-looking statements. which are subject to assumptions, risks, and uncertainties. These risks are included in our SEC filings and are summarized on slide 43 of our presentation. Actual results may differ from those set forth in forward-looking statements, which speak only as of today. We undertake no obligation to update them, except to the extent required by securities laws. All earnings per share metrics discussed on this call are on a diluted share basis. Our presentation materials and press release are available online at investorrelations.umb.com. Now, I'll turn the call over to Mariner Kemper.

Thank you, Kay, and thanks, everyone, for joining us today. Yesterday afternoon, we reported our third quarter results reflecting positive momentum across our business lines. Highlights include robust loan growth coupled with strong asset quality and solid core revenue growth. Net income for the third quarter was $88 million, or $1.81 per share. Operating pre-tax, pre-provision income was $131.2 million, or $2.70 per share. Net interest income increased 3.9% sequentially, driven by a nearly $1 billion increase in average loans, positive asset mix, and the impact of rising rates. This was partially negated by increased profit costs, largely driven by a transition from DDAs to rate-varying accounts, which is typical in an interest rate cycle such as the one we're seeing today. the timing of deposit initiatives to attract new to bank customers in each of our business lines, the availability of attractive short-tenner investment options, and the impact of clients reacting to typical market pressures in a raising rate environment, particularly on our rate-sensitive institutional businesses. This is consistent with what we're seeing from other trusts and custody banks like ourselves. Our cycle-to-date data on interest-bearing deposits has been 46% and 27% on total deposits. As we've noted in the past, our business profile and funding mix is uniquely skewed in favor of our commercial and institutional sources. These sources experience different pace and timing than many of our peers in the repricing environment. Our fee businesses performed well, driving non-interest income growth, excluding the impact of the non-recurring gain from the sale of Visa-class fee shares in the second quarter. Additional drivers are included in our slides, and Ron will share more details shortly. Excluding contributions from PCP and the market-related impact from gains and losses on investment securities, we've generated operating leverage of 4% year-to-date. This continues to be the focus for us, and we expect to generate positive operating leverage for the full year. Pipelines and sales activity continue to be strong across the company, and I'll share a few highlights from the various businesses. In private wealth, our team has surpassed full year 2021 sales, bringing it to $874 million in new assets year-to-date. Our institutional banking teams are continuing to perform well. Year-to-date new business volumes have increased 16% in corporate trusts and escrow services and 35% in specialty trusts. And public finance has closed 110 deals so far in 2022, on track to exceed 2021 levels. Fund services and institutional custody assets under administration levels have been impacted by equity market valuations in 2022, and AUA levels now stand at 352 billion. However, the teams continue to bring in new clients, including more than 200 new custody accounts year-to-date. And the fund services contribution to our trust income has increased 6.2% year-over-year. In health care services, we rank among the top 10 HSA providers in the U.S. We expect the acquisition of the Old National Bank Corp's HSA business to close in mid-November. This acquisition will bolster our position with an additional $400 million in inexpensive deposits and approximately $100 million in investment assets. Moving to lending, the drivers behind our nearly 22% lean quarter annualized growth in average balances this quarter are are on slide 24. Total top-line loan production, as shown on slide 25, remains strong at $1.3 billion for the quarter. Payoffs and paydown represent 4.7% of loans rebounding from the low levels second quarter. Commercial real estate and construction loans posted 20% annualized growth in the third quarter, while payoffs will fluctuate from quarter to quarter. We expect we will see them eventually begin as anticipated in the raising rate environment. We saw continued outperformance at C&I, with average balances increasing 27% on a linked quarter annualized basis and making up more than half of this quarter's total growth. Industrial production continues to be strong, and we're seeing a good mix of new customer acquisition and increased borrowings from existing commercial relationships. Line increases are moving closer to pre-pandemic levels and general customers' comments indicate that the draws are largely related to depleting stimulus liquidity, higher inventories, and higher prices. Average residential mortgage balances have increased 23% over the third quarter of last year, despite the impact of raising rates. Our down payment assistance program designed to support first-time homebuyers in underserved markets has had more than 1,000 new applications resulting and 1.6 million in assistance here today. Looking ahead to the fourth quarter, we see opportunity in our various verticals across the footprint, and we expect continued strong growth to round out the year. On the other side of the balance sheet, average total deposits for the quarter decreased 5.7% compared to the second quarter, driven primarily by DDA outflows from elevated second quarter levels, primarily in our institutional businesses. Compared to the third quarter of 2021, our DDA balances increased 8.7%, led by corporate trust, commercial, and investor solution verticals. Because of the often project-based orientation of our corporate trust businesses, we can just as easily see spikes in DDA as we have seen a decline this past quarter. DDA balances represent 42% of average deposits, compared to 45% in the second quarter and 39% in the third quarter of last year. We continue to focus on deposit gathering, including the deposit initiatives I mentioned, as well as engaging with our current customers. One area of growth we're excited about is our business banking and practice finance vertical, which has seen exceptional deposit growth over the past few years. We continue to invest in this business to drive future growth on both sides of the balance sheet. While we've seen cycle-to-date data on our interest-bearing deposits of approximately 46%, I think the metric alone gives an incomplete view, as it ignores the benefit of DDA balances, which have a zero beta, and the impact of our borrowing levels, which have been at 100% beta. I'd encourage you to look at our total cost of funds instead, which have had a beta of 32% thus far this year. Additionally, we benefit on the earning asset side, with cycle-to-date beta of nearly 50%, In this environment, we expect loan growth and improving asset yields will continue to drive above-peer growth in net interest income. Moving to asset quality, net charge-offs in the third quarter were just 0.02% of average loans, while non-accrual loans remained steady at 10 basis points of loans. We continue to expect that our full-year loss rate will be consistent with our long-term historical averages of approximately 25 to 30 basis points or less. Provisions for the quarter of 22 million was driven by our continued strong loan growth, portfolio metrics, and changes in the macroeconomic outlook. Our reserve coverage is now at 0.93% of total loans. In September, we were successful in raising 110 million in capital through our subordinated note offering that will help us facilitate our expected balance sheet growth for the remainder of this year and on into 2023. Our own UMB capital markets team participated as co-manager, bringing in clients that made up about a third of the total offering. The capital raise favorably impacted our ratios. September 30 total capital and leverage ratios were 13.13 and 8.66% respectively. And in our press release, we announced that the board had approved a 2.7% increase in our dividends bringing it to $0.38 per share payable in January. Finally, we've seen many changes in the outlook for markets and the economy in the last few months. We've got unprecedented Fed tightening and record inflation, along with uncharacteristically tight labor markets. And geopolitical conflicts, along with contagion effects from across the Atlantic, have increased economic uncertainties. We have active dialogues with our own clients about their businesses and outlooks. Borrowers are generally optimistic about the rest of 2022 and remain cautiously so looking forward, although most are concerned about rising costs. While our customers are in good shape, we, like many others, expect that we may experience a short recessionary environment. Historically, the leading economic index, or the LEI, has become a good indicator. In more than 40 years of history, a drop In the six-month rate of the LEI, below negative 3% has preceded periods of recession. As of last week, the index was at negative 5.6%, further decreasing from a negative 5% at the end of August. Unlike the previous cycle, banks came into this cycle with stronger capital positions, and the consumers came in more liquid and less leveraged. Therefore, we don't expect it to be as destructive, but more of a recess of the economy. As I mentioned, we see good growth opportunities in the fourth quarter, although we'll continue to watch closely for early warning signs for deterioration, which at this point seem to be contained in specific areas such as consumer discretionary. This is where we differentiate ourselves by rolling close to shore, which is part of our risk management philosophy that keeps us prepared for all environments. In closing, I'm proud of our teams, as always, as they continue to work together work hard for our customers and communities. Now I'll turn it over to Ram for additional comments. Ram?

Thanks, Mariner. Let me start with some commentary on balance sheet trends, starting with our liquidity profile on page 21. Our Fed accounts, reverse repo, and cash balances further declined to $1.5 billion and now comprise just 4.3% of average earning assets with a blended yield of 2.30% compared to 8%. As we've done in prior tightening cycles, we deploy cash flows from our high-quality securities portfolio to fund loan growth opportunities during the third quarter. As shown on slide 28, the portfolio roll-up in the third quarter was $304 million at a yield of 1.96%, while we purchased $54 million in securities, primarily CLOs, with a yield of 4.86%. $1.1 billion of cash flow in the next 12 months. The yield of those securities rolling off is approximately 1.83%. While treasury yields present very attractive reinvestment levels, our priority is to fund the opportunities we continue to see in our lending verticals. In 2022, we reclassified securities to the health and maturity portfolio to help manage tangible capital and reduce the impact of rising rates on our equity. Average HDM balances for the third quarter, including the $1.2 billion of revenue bonds we've long held in that book, were $4.6 billion. Loan yields increased 74 basis points from the second quarter to 4.46%, with a cycle-to-date data of approximately 37%. 61%, or about $12.1 billion of loans, are variable rate, with 60% of those repricing in the next quarter and 71% repricing within the next 12 months. These are largely tied to indices at the short end of the curve. The total cost of deposits, including DEA, was 65 basis points, up from 20 basis points last quarter, and the cycle today's data is approximately 27%. Net interest margin expanded 16 basis points from the second quarter. Net interest margin benefited by approximately 43 basis points from low repricing and mix, 30 basis points from the benefit of free funds, and 24 basis points from reduced liquidity balances and rates. These were partially offset by a negative 81 basis points related to the cost and mix of interest and liabilities. As we look ahead, there are a lot of variables at play that will impact the trajectory of our net interest margin, including the depth and duration of the Fed's tightening cycle, outlook for equity markets and that impact on deposits, expected disintermediation of DDA balances as ECR rates increase, as well as our own need to generate deposits through targeted campaigns to fund low growth. Based on our own simulations, which includes the mid-quarter onboarding of HSA deposits from All National and the seasonal inflow of indexed public funds deposits, we expect our fourth quarter net interest margin to be flat to slightly down from third quarter levels. This assumes a Fed Funds rate of 4.5% at year end. As Myrna noted, while the focus on deposit beta and NIM is important, we focus primarily on net interest income growth facilitated primarily by loan growth. Additionally, as you've heard us say before, another metric that we manage to is a loan-to-deposit ratio limit of 75%. With our ratio approaching 65%, we will continue to focus on deposit and client acquisition all our lines of business. The estimated impact of net interest income in various rate scenarios based on SEP 30 balances is shown on slide 30. In a rate ramp scenario of plus 100 basis points on a static balance sheet, net interest income is predicted to fall 0.6% in year one and increase by 2.9% in year two. This analysis assumes repricing of our variable rate loans based on underlying changes to LIBOR and SOFR, and other indices as well, as well as deposit betas consistent with the prior cycle. One variable that's missing in this prescribed analysis is what happens to our growth-related net interest income. The ultimate effect of incremental rate hikes on NII will be dependent on the timing and magnitude of interest rate movements, loan growth, and balance sheet management strategies. Back to the income statement, total fee income for the quarter was $128.7 million. The second quarter included a $66.2 million pre-tax gain on the sale of our Visa 5B shares recorded in investment securities gains. As shown in the commentary on slide 18 earlier in our presentation, fee income excluding income or loss from equity valuations was $130.1 million compared to $115.6 million in the second quarter. This variance included a $13 million increase in company-owned life insurance income and a $1.2 million increase in derivative income related to customer back-to-back swaps. Other areas of strong performance include card services income and brokerage fees, the latter of which captures our money market revenue share and 12B1 fee income. Total brokerage income increased $1.4 million, or nearly 12% compared to the second quarter, despite market-related compression of approximately 3% in the underlying money market balance. Other drivers are shown on slide 22 and are discussed in the press release. Slide 23 shows trends in our non-interest expense. The link quarter increase was driven primarily by the change in deferred compensation expense, which was $2.3 million in the third quarter versus a credit of $9.2 million in the second quarter. This is related to the increased COLE income I mentioned previously. We saw a $4.5 million increase in salary and wage expense, reflecting one additional salary day in the quarter as well as selective hiring in some of our lines of businesses. Additionally, we built $3.7 million of operational losses, which are not expected to recur. These increases were offset by a decrease of $4.8 million in charitable contributions expense recorded in other expense. A few other items to keep in mind as we look at expenses going forward. In October, the FDIC announced a two-base point increase in assessment rates free tax. And fourth quarter expenses will include the yet to be determined pro rata amortization impact from the acquisition of $400 million in HSA deposits expected to close mid-quarter. Finally, like in prior fourth quarter periods, we will make a $2 million charitable contribution to organizations serving our communities, as well as making any needed true-ups to performance-based incentive accruals. As Mariner noted, as we approach our 2023 budgeting phase, our focus remains on generating positive operating leverage while prudently investing in our businesses. Our effective tax rate was 19.1% for the third quarter and 18.8% year-to-date, reflecting a smaller portion of income from tax exempt municipal securities. For the full year 2022, we anticipate it to be approximately 18 to 20%. That concludes our prepared remarks and I'll turn it back to the operator to begin the Q&A portion of the call.

Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please press star followed by one on your telephone keypad. If for any reason you would like to remove that question, please press star followed by two. Again, to ask a question, press star one. As a reminder, if you are using a speakerphone, Please remember to pick up your handset before asking your question. Our first question comes from the line of Jared Shaw with Wells Fargo. Jared, your line is now open.

Hey, good morning, everybody. Hey, Jared. Morning, Jared. Maybe just starting on deposits, you know, if we look at sort of the DDA levels pre-COVID, you were around 32%. Should we expect that we sort of trend back towards that level with the pressure on DDA from the ECR and the other items you mentioned? Or do you think there's some systemic or structural change that could keep that at a higher level?

Well, I think, this is Mariner, some of the DDA drawdown that's happened over the quarter has been based on obviously the higher rate environment and customers looking to participate in that, as well as higher costs and inflation, such as customers that put their money to work in an inflationary environment. I think as you look forward, just specifically thinking about DDAs, as you look forward into a recessionary environment or beyond that, a more normalized environment, DDAs should remain you know, at strong levels as they have been in the past. Okay.

And then I guess... Jared, this is Ram, and I would say, you know, we've added a lot of new clients for the last 12 months on the heels of the PPP program that we talked about, the halo effect of the PPP program. So when you think about new clients, right, so, yeah, right to the last great cycle, we did go down to 32% composition, but this time around, I think we feel like it'll be higher than that as the rate cycle peaks because we've been adding new clients with DDA balances as well, particularly in small business. You heard Mariner talk about the efforts in small business and how that has driven some DDA growth.

So I would say we probably end up doing better than last cycle. So a temporary short squeeze on that, I guess, is the way we would describe it.

Okay, okay. I guess just following up on that or on the deposit side, how should we be thinking about through the cycle beta now? You know, I think, you know, we saw a little bit of an acceleration on interest-bearing deposits cost this quarter. How are we thinking about, you know, how should we think about through the cycle beta? Either, you know, I guess on interest-bearing or on total since you seem to focus on that a little more.

Yeah, we obviously think total is the way to think about it. And the total was in the 30, you know, low 30 range. I think I think if you – last quarter and the quarter before we telegraphed that we would be early to go through the cycle as a more commercial and institutionally heavy deposit base for our company, and that's basically what we've produced. We still expect to end whatever cycle we have similar to the last cycle, and we don't have any reason to expect that to be any different. We feel like we're tracking that way. You know, we end up in, is that round 52? Somewhere, you know, a couple clicks one way or the other. We were around 52 last time. We've telegraphed that in the last couple calls. That's what our expectations are. We'll see how that ends up. But I don't have anything telling us it'd be anything other than that. And the way we believe it is it looks at a relative basis. We just go through it earlier. And then you also have to think about, obviously, total costs, not just the interest-bearing. Just keep that in mind. And then lastly, you can't forget the impact of what we're able to do on the asset side. So with more than 50% of our loans repricing within 12 months, we've got the repricing of the current book, the back book, and then a significant portion of our loan growth is from new customers, and all of that new customer growth comes in at a higher yield. So our loan asset betas were 54 on a quarter basis and 37 cycle to date. We expect to continue to perform well on the asset side and particularly on the loan side.

Okay. And just to confirm that 52% deposit beta is total, right? Yes. Yeah, okay. And then on the bullies side, with the corresponding expense. Is this a third quarter, sort of a one-time thing, or is this now a new level from additional purchases?

No, we have it quarter in, quarter out as part of our deferred comp administration, so we try to mimic those assets. and any mark-to-market fluctuations get ridden up or down in fee income, just like we have deferred comp expenses. So we tried to break it out. So last quarter, because of what happened to the equity markets, our deferred comp expense or COLE income came down by about $11 million, and this quarter it recovered to a positive $2 million, creating a $13 million. So this quarter's impact of fee income at the benefit from COLE was only $2 million. Same thing on the deferred comp side. We had more expenses of about $2.5 million reflected in our $231 million expense base.

That activity happens every quarter, yeah. Got it. Thank you.

Thank you for your question. Our next question comes from the line of Chris McGrady with KBW. Chris, your line is now open.

Oh, great. Good morning. Ron, I think you, in your prepared remarks, you talked about a 75 ultimate terminal loan-to-deposit ratio. So you've got plenty of room. I'm kind of interested in, I guess, when and how you get there. I understand the comments on loan growth. And also saw that you really didn't buy any bonds in the quarter. But is the math, you know, deposits continue to be positive but perhaps trail down? or do we see more downdraft in the deposits and securities book?

Well, we fully expect to continue to grow our deposits. And, you know, we've become much more active in the market competing in this environment where our customers have options. And as the short end of the curve has come up the way it has, it's a different environment than we've seen it in the past where, Obviously, customers have lots of options in this rate environment. We've remained competitive and more so recently so that we can keep up with our loan growth. Then the real goal and job of ours is to remain disciplined on our loan pricing. We believe we can do that. Then it's ultimately about maintenancing our margin and spread more and growing our net interest income than it is worrying about deposit betas, which we really can't control in this environment. So we focus on all the good stuff, the growth and the drivers. We think we can continue to produce above pure level growth, both on the asset side and on the fee side. We've done that for a long time. In the 20 years I've been CEO, we've met the expectations and delivered the growth we expect of ourselves And we expect to continue to do that. And when the Fed pivots, we get that announcement, that will renormalize the cost side of our structure. So this is really a short-term problem. We don't manage this company for the quarter. We manage it for multiple years in advance. And our growth profile remains very strong. And when the Fed pivots, things will normalize for us.

Great. Thanks for that, Color Mariner. Ram, the billion one of bonds that come due over the next year, I guess fair to say that new money, is this more creative to put those into the loan book and perhaps shrink the bond portfolio?

That's right. Yeah. The last three or four months, we have not reinvested other than a very tiny sliver into CLOs. We've not reinvested our cash flows, and it's all part of the loan-to-deposit question that you asked previously, managing that. We've done this in the past with balance sheet rotation. You've heard us talk about it during the last cycle, so it's the same playbook.

And we've just become more active pursuing those deposits more recently as the excess liquidity has been absorbed into the markets.

Yep, got it. Maybe just one housekeeping question. The $6 million FDIC, that's a bump on an annual basis, right?

Yeah, that's the annual number, yep.

Okay, and then I think you said you're still finalizing the incremental AM expense from the deposit deal, but I think Old National disclosed that there was roughly a $95 million premium paid for those 400 deposits. How do I think about just incremental intangible assets and impact on capital? Is it that full amount of money that goes into intangibles?

That's the part we're still working on. So it's hard to give you the number right now, but I just wanted to throw it out there that expenses will include that. So the classification between process goodwill and intangibles that get amortized,

Okay, but the 95, it's just a split, how that's split, but the 95 is the right number. Correct. Okay, thanks a lot. Thanks, Chris.

Thanks for your question. As a brief reminder, it is star 1 on your telephone keypad to register a question. Our next question comes from the line of Nathan Reyes with Piper Sandler. Nathan, your line is now open.

Yep. Hi, everyone. Good morning. Thanks for taking the questions. Morning, Nate. Hey. Question on the operating leverage outlook. Obviously, you know, some nice improvement this quarter. Do you think the improvement that we saw in your efficiency ratio here in the third quarter is sustainable in this type of rate environment? Or how do you guys kind of think about managing expenses going forward, apart from kind of the trip that you had in compensation costs in light of the strong production that you've seen so far this year?

Yeah, it's a lot of the expenses that we've talked about in the past tend to be variable in nature and driven by overall company performance or widget production, right? So the fact that we're focused on positive operating leverage for the fourth quarter and for the 2023 budget would suggest that the efficiency ratio will improve from here. So obviously we'll be investing, as we said in the prepared remarks, we'll be investing in our businesses. hiring for 2023 and 2024, but at the same time will react to the revenue environment and what's happening in the revenue side of the equation.

Okay, got it. And then just maybe turn into the outlook for, you know, provision going forward. I imagine, you know, growth may moderate in this macro environment to maybe the high single digit range, kind of consistent with your historical trajectory over time. How do you guys think about, you know, providing for that type of growth? trajectory going forward and absent any kind of CECL related adjustments on the Q factors?

Well, it's hard to do it absent CECL, but, you know, because that's a big driver. You know, I think a big portion of our third quarter provision was from loan growth. And so that's, you know, that was the largest number in there. And, you know, obviously our loan quality is incredibly strong. So the combination really going forward for provisioning will be from outsized loan growth and macro environment statistics driven by our Moody's information. And, you know, I suppose your guess is as good as ours. So I would suggest that that data will not be getting any better anytime soon. So as you think about the fourth quarter, We expect to have strong loan growth and at least, I don't, who knows what Moody's will say. I don't see it necessarily getting any worse, but it's certainly not going to get any better that way. So, you know, it's an algorithmic deal based on what's going on in the economy with unemployment and what's going on with that loan growth.

Okay, great. And then just, you know, on the heels of the sub-debt raise recently, obviously it seems like that was supportive of some pretty strong loan growth in the quarter. Just curious if, you know, that added capital buffer, you know, is perhaps, you know, supportive of some increased M&A dialogue of later if you're feeling kind of more or less optimistic on additional acquisitions outside the deposits that'll be coming on board in the fourth quarter.

You know, we've We remain active in pursuit of acquisitions, continue to pursue those. We'd like to add solid franchises to the base of our organization when we can find the right deal that fits. Nothing new there. We're active in our calling efforts.

Okay, great. I appreciate you guys taking the questions in all the color. Thanks, Nick.

Thank you for your question. Our next question comes from the line of John Rodas with Jannie. John, your line is now open.

Good morning, everybody. Good morning, John. Ron, just back to the expense, looking at expenses for the quarter, what is the right number to back out? for this quarter for the Coley impact? Is it the $2 million or is it the $11.5 million just to sort of get a good run rate going forward?

Yeah, just on the deferred comp, I would take out two and a half. And then we talked about an operating loss for about $4 million. And then there was some, you know, $1 to $2 million of timing-related expenses on travel and marketing campaigns. So we started the Reported expenses, there are some one-time items. I would put them in the $7 to $8 million category of things that we don't control or don't expect to recur. So the run rate, I would say, is closer to $223-ish. And then it's all the other items that I talked about in terms of the charitable contribution just for the fourth quarter, the FDIC assessment increase for starting 2023, And then the AMRT related to the HSA purchase.

Yep. Okay. So 223 million for the third quarter. Okay. Thank you. Yep. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you for your question. As a brief reminder, it is star 1 on your telephone keypad to register a question. Our next question comes from the line of David Long with Raymond James. David, your line is now open.

Good morning, everyone. Hey, morning, David. Hey, there. Looking at the reserve build in the quarter, I know you're pointing to the loan growth side of things. Was the loans that you added require additional reserves? It just looks to me like the addition, if you're using your overall reserve level, the loan growth sort of been a smaller contributor. Just curious what maybe loans you added and then what else may have contributed to the build in the quarter?

Well, I mean, the loan growth in the quarter was $990 million. And so it was a pretty significant component of it. It's driven by CECL. It's a mathematical equation that requires us to do what we do. I don't know if that answered your question, but it was a significant quarter in loan growth. And so we provisioned against it.

Each new loan that comes on the books requires a reserve, a percentage of reserve. So by definition, new loans will add to the reserve requirement right out of the gate.

Sure. Got it. Okay. And then, you know, taking this a step further, Looking at your total reserve level, when CECL came out, we thought it was going to be very quantitative, and what we've heard since then is there's a good qualitative portion. Can you discern between the two? Is there a portion of your reserve that you'd say is qualitative versus quantitative, and how much of it would be qualitative if so?

It's hard to give you that specifically, but there is. on the margin is what I would describe that as. And the majority of it is driven by quantitative mathematical, mathematically driven based on lost history, roll on and roll off, loan growth, and macroeconomic environment. And then you've got a piece of it that we can use our our own assessment of the environment and our own balance sheet and our own dynamics on a qualitative basis to move that up or down on a marginal basis.

Got it. Thank you.

Thank you for your question. There are no more questions waiting at this time, so I will pass the call back to our management team for closing remarks. Thank you.

Yeah, this is Mariner. I might just wrap it up by reiterating, you know, our thesis for where we stand and some of the, you know, the concerns in the marketplace for the industry around deposit betas and kind of how we see that shaping up for us specifically. You know, as we've been saying for a few quarters, we are largely institutional commercial. That's not new. You know, our base, deposit base is not new. And we've been here before. I've been CEO of 20 years. We've seen this before. We just telegraphed that we're going to go through it early. We've gone through it early. We still expect to come in right where we thought we would in the low 50 range on the beta side. And we think that you as analysts and investors should focus more on the whole balance sheet and NII as they are the drivers for our success and performance long term. Our ability to grow our loans, our ability to have strong with two basis points of charge-offs and 10 basis points on the non-performing side. So we think that on a risk-adjusted basis with the growth that we have, we think you should focus more on the profile of the business and less on the short-term Fed action squeeze. And the Fed will pivot soon. That will normalize our costs, and you will be left with what you normally see with us, which is an outside growth profile with a better than average risk profile. So that all remains the same, and we expect to see fourth quarter loan growth as strong as it was in the third quarter with the same kind of quality. And so there's nothing new here on our end. We've just got to live through the short squeeze from the fritz. And we appreciate your continued interest, and we'll keep after it.

Thanks, Meritor, and thanks, everyone, for joining us today. If you have further questions, you can reach Investor Relations at 816-860-7106. Thank you, and have a good day.

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.