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spk00: The conference will begin shortly. To raise your hand during Q&A, you can dial star 1 1.
spk05: Good afternoon and welcome to DaVinci Partners' third quarter 2022 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Later, we will conduct a question and answer session and instructions will follow at that time. As a reminder, this call will be recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Anna Castro, Investor Relations Manager. Please go ahead, Anna.
spk00: Thank you and good afternoon, everyone. Joining today are Alessandro Horta, Chief Executive Officer, Bruno Zaremba, Private Equity Chairman and Head of Investor Relations, and Sergio Passos, Chief Financial Officer. Earlier today, we issued a press release, slide presentation, and our financial statements for the quarter, which are available on our website at ir.partners.com. I'd like to remind you that today's call may include far-looking statements, which are uncertain and outside of the firm's control. It may differ from actual results materially. We do not undertake any duty to update these statements. For discussion of some of the risks that could affect results, please see the risk factor section of our 20th. We will also refer to certain non-GAAP measures, and you'll find reconciliations in the release. Also note that nothing on this call constitutes an offer to sell or solicitation of an offer to purchase an interest in any venture partners fund. With that, I'll turn the call over to Alessandro.
spk01: Thank you, Ana. Good afternoon, and thank you all for joining our call. We are very pleased to join you all today as we announce results for the third quarter of 2022. Adjustable distributable earnings, totally 73.2 million reais in the third quarter, or 1.32 reais per common share, an increase of 19% year over year. Distributable earnings results are backed by extremely defensive FRE, pushed by fundraising across our private market strategies and long-term lockups, with a considerable upside coming from our liquid investment portfolio. Our business model has been able to guarantee an extremely healthy growth for our company in one of the most challenging scenarios these past quarters, and helped us navigate these times while still delivering growth and attractive dividend distributions to our shareholders. Vinci announced a quarter dividend of $0.20 on the dollar per common share, totaling $1.20 in dividend distribution since our IPO. Considering yesterday's closing share price, PINP stock currently trading north of 6% last 12 months dividend yield. This yield is secured by a highly visible management fee-driven revenue stream and a very conservative investment policy on our balance sheet's cash position. Vinci ended the third quarter with R$63.4 billion in assets under management, up 9% year-over-year driven by our fundraising across private market funds in the second and third quarters of 2022 and the recently closed acquisition of SPS. Results for Vinci SPS will be included in our private market segment. This quarter presented a partial impact from a revenue standpoint from Vinci SPS, As we close the acquisition in the middle of the quarter, we will see revenues from the segment impacting the fourth quarter onwards. On the fundraising side, we had some great news regarding our efforts in private markets this quarter. The first one is the capital raise for our first fund within our recently formed agribusiness strategy, VICA, a partnership between our credit and real estate segments, and a joint venture with Cremata. Zika raised $360 million in perpetual capital in this first round of investments. We've configured the hard cap for this round. Our team experienced great traction from investors with an oversubscribed offer, and we should come back with a new round of investments as soon as the fund is fully invested, which should take place in the first half of 2023. The second one is the mandate won by our infrastructure segment to manage the Sustainable Regional Development Fund, or FDIRS. We should see this fund being activated towards the end of the year, with AUM starting at R$ 750 million. FDRS has significant potential to grow over the years, considering its predetermined hard cap to invest up to R$ 11 billion as the team originates investment opportunities alongside additional capital commitments. This fund presents a combined asset management advisor mandate as we aim to develop and invest in regional projects in coming years. Vinci has been growing AUM at a 27% CAGR since 2018, while the Brazilian market as a whole has been growing at 14% CAGR in the same period. We have been taking significant share of the Brazilian market backed by two secular growth trends. First, the shift in allocation to alternatives mainly for institutional investors that are still extremely under-allocated to alternatives and have a total addressable market of about R$1 trillion in assets. Combined with the GDP consolidation trend, of which Vinci has been successfully the partner of choice for local institutional investors, with our diversified and growing product availability in all the main strategies of the alternative asset space. The combination of our one-stop shop business model with our robust proprietary distribution channel to local institutional investors have been responsible for important achievements in 2022, such as seed investments across our credit and infra funds, new products anchored by local institutional investors and federal organizations. Now, let me spend some time providing an update on fundraising for the next few months. The ICC, our Climate Change Fund, should hold a first close in the fourth quarter, backed by commitments from BNDES, other global and local LPs, and a seed investment from Vinci's balance sheet. Vinci Credit Infra, that held its first close in the last quarter, should come back in the fourth quarter with a second round of investments also backed by BNDES pre-approved investment. Lastly, we have a very exciting pipeline of opportunities for deployment of capital within our recently activated flagship private equity fund, VCP4. In federal, fundraising efforts for the fund remain strong and we should see new commitments being activated over the next several quarters. For the first round of investments in VCP4, we are seeing greater demand from local investors compared to what we experienced in previous vintages. This showcases what we have been discussing for quite some time. Local institutions are increasing their efforts into analyzing alternative investments, and we believe The current trends in this direction are just the beginning. For international LPs, we are seeing here a phenomenon that has affected U.S. and European listed alternative managers as well. It has been a busy market for fundraising, and there are several players coming back to market with new funds. This has been perceived as widely discussed by our peers in their earnings calls, and especially true for private equity strategies. This concentration has led to delays in commitment and the calendar in general is being pushed back 6 to 12 months. With that being said, we are expecting a greater contribution for international investors towards the next quarters until the end of the fundraising process. A formation concentration of new fund launches has dissipated and with Brazilian elections behind us, we expect to see a pickup in demand for our location in general to Brazil. We have a positive view for Brazil's position in the global economic picture. Brazil has been experiencing outstanding performance when compared to international peers recently. Most of the world has been pointing to a declining growth, mainly as a consequence of a late fight on global inflationary pressures. Market expectations for Brazilian growth, on the other hand, has been revised upwards since early 2022 and are now pointing towards 3% GDP growth in the year. There are a few reasons for this outstanding performance. The Brazilian central bank was the first mover globally to fight inflation. interest rate hikes started in early 2021 and have ended a couple of months ago. Indeed, when we look at market expectations for inflation in Brazil, they have been collapsing for 2022 and all for the coming years. After 2024, the market now believes that inflation will be very close to the center of the inflation target of 3%. The magnitude of the hike in interest rates necessary to curb the inflationary process caused significant dislocation in both public and private capital markets in Brazil. However, past this harsh environment, there is a bright perspective ahead of Brazil. In 2022, accelerating GDP growth expectations are a clear testimony of that. With the perspective of higher growth and also the proximity of an easing cycle to start for interest rates in 2023, capital markets will likely perform well in the years ahead. Also, as the opportunity cost tumbles, demand for alternative assets, as the ones offered by Vinci, will likely reaccelerate in the years ahead. The reduction of political noise after 2022 presidential election and the perspective of a moderate economic policy alongside a more reformist Congress will likely be a further tailwind to the scenario of growth and further reduction in interest rates. Combining Brazil's positive economic outlook in the short to medium term with the broadened fundraising pipeline across all our platforms, Zinch sits in a unique position to accelerate growth. While we prepare ourselves for this exciting road ahead of us, we are awarding our shareholders with a predictable, stable, and high-quality dividend that at this share price represents outstanding dividend yield. We at Vinci are extremely committed in generating value to our shareholders through every market cycle, always leveraging our platform to generate exceeded returns. With that, I will turn it over to Bruno to go over our financial results.
spk08: Thank you, Alessandro, and good afternoon, everyone. Starting on slide 9, we will cover AUM trends for the quarter. Vinci ended the quarter with R$63.4 billion in AUM, up 9% year-over-year. During the third quarter, we launched our first fund focused on the agribusiness strategy, VICA, raising R$360 million in a perpetual capital fund structure to become listed in the B3 to a public follow-on offering in up to five years. VICA should come back to the market next year for a new round of financing. due to the substantial demand we experienced from investors and the extensive pipeline of assets we have identified for this strategy. For the fourth quarter, we expect a first closing for our climate change fund within the infrastructure segment, the ICC, and a second round of investments for Vinci Credit Infra. As a reminder, each fund has a 500 million reais approved commitment from the NDS. For the ICC, that commitment should be partially activated at the first closing, reaching the full commitment as the fund reaches its targeted fundraising. In the case of Vinci Credit Infra, we expect the commitment to be fully activated in the fourth quarter. Concluding our AUM update, it's important to highlight that half of our AUM is comprised by long-term products. This results in a more predictable revenue stream for management fees, which translates into stability in our earnings and dividend distribution. Bear in mind that exclusive separate mandates from our IPNS segment do not formally account within long-term AUM as they don't have formal lockups. However, this is an extremely sticky investor base with a long-term view for its allocations. We have proprietary relationship with these clients and generally their goal is to stay with us for the long term and as consequence we have very low churn in these funds. My goal here is to bring awareness to the fact that our actual AUM with long-term objectives is considerably larger therefore our management fees are well protected and this is exactly the stickiness that our AUM displayed over the entire interest rate hike cycle. VINCH in fact Drill AUM by approximately 9 billion, while interest rates were going from 2% all the way up to 14%. Moving on to slide 11, we go over accrued performance fees in our private market funds. Performance fee receivables increased to 154.8 million reais in the third quarter, a 6% increase quarter over quarter. The VCP strategy currently accounts for roughly 90% of accrued performance fees, representing an appealing upside for future performance fees. At the end of the quarter, Vinci had R$10 billion in performance-eligible AUM coming from private market funds still in investment period that can further contribute to accrued performance fees as these funds enter their divestment periods. Turning to slide 13, we will cover our fee-related revenues. Revenues from management and advisory fees totaled 102.6 million reais in the quarter, up 7% quarter over quarter. This increase was a result of the fundraising experience in the latter part of the second quarter aligned with the partial impact from Vinci SPS management fees, as we close acquisition in the middle of the third quarter. We should see a continuing positive trend coming in the next quarter onwards. Additionally, to the full quarter impact of Vinci SPS, which is the activation of fees following capital deployments, as we currently have about 1.7 billion in AUM coming primarily from the Vinci Credit Infra Fund and Vinci SPS Third Vintage. That will contribute with higher fees as these funds deploy capital. Total fee-related revenues were down 13% year-over-year due to strong advisory fees realized in last year's quarter. As for management fees, they were up by 3% year-over-year. The same trend can be observed in fee-related revenues on a year-to-year basis as the growth in management fees were offset by lower levels of advisory fees. due to record revenues experienced by our advisory business last year. In slide 14, we present our operating expenses for the quarter and year-to-date. Total expenses account for 53.6 million reais in the quarter, down 5% year-over-year. In the year-to-date, total expenses were 152.2 million reais, down 5% year-over-year. Excluding bonus compensations, Fixed and variable expenses increased 15% year-over-year due to inflationary pressures on fixed costs, the return of traveling expenses to pre-pandemic levels, and the investments currently being made in our venture retirement services vertical, which we expect to contribute to revenues early in 2023. Moving on to slide 15, we go over our few related earnings for the quarter. FRE totaled 49.5 million reais or 89 cents per share in the quarter. As previously mentioned, we had a positive impact from fundraising that occurred in the latter part of the second quarter as well as a partial contribution from SPS revenues. These were direct contributions. The 6% increase in FRE observed quarter over quarter. On a year-over-year basis, FRE was down 22% a result of higher levels of advisory fees experienced in the same period last year as consequence of the strong deal activity observed in 2021. Another contributor was the investment made this year in our new retirement segment, VRS, which should start to earn fees in 2023. Please note that our core business, FRE, remains healthy year over year. and should continue to improve each quarter due to three main factors. First, the strong fundraising cycle that we have ahead of us across private market products, which we have already started to realize. Second, the full contribution from VINCH SPS revenues, which will happen in the fourth quarter onwards. And third, as already mentioned, we have funds that charge higher fees over invested capital, as they increase their capital locations, such as Vinci Credit Infra and Vinci SPS Vintages. Both still have significant levels of dry powder that are expected to be invested over the next several quarters. Moving on to margins, FRA margin was 48% in the quarter, down 5 percentage points when compared to the same period last year, mainly a result of higher advisory fees last year and the fixed cost deleverage we have for that vertical. Addition to higher fixed costs following the rise in inflation rates and previously mentioned investments behind venture retirement services. Disregarding our investments in VRS, FRA margin would be 50% for the third quarter of 2022, approximately 380 basis points lower than the same year ago period. And that is mostly explained by fixed cost of the leverage coming from the advisory vertical. As we have been communicated over the last few quarters, margins should improve in the coming years as we reap the benefits of the fundraising cycle for private market products that carry a higher fee rate than our current average. Moving on to slide 16, we go over performance-related revenues. PT was negative R$500,000 in the quarter, compared to a positive R$4 million in the third quarter of 2021. primarily due to a downwards mark to market adjustment in CP Infra Transmissão, which has unrealized performances booked in the company's balance sheet. Another significant impact came from the greater contribution from international exclusive mandates in IPNS in the third quarter of 2021. These exclusive vehicles had a stellar 2021 and have not contributed at the same levels this year. as international markets are facing some volatility, with the S&P, NASDAQ, and major credit indexes posting significant losses in 2022. Over the year to date, PRE put R$4 million down 81% compared to the same period in the year before. Since our IPO, we have been suffering with volatile markets, therefore facing challenging environments for charging performance fees, mostly in our liquid strategies. However, it's important to be mindful that we have over R$16 billion in performance as well as in liquid products across liquid strategies and IPNS. These funds have been struggling to generate performance fees due to their high water mark clauses, which in practice do not allow us to charge fees in a down market. With markets improving, we expect this revenue stream to be more active and more materially contribute to our earnings at some point in the future. Shifting to slide 17, we go over our realized GP investment and financial income. We had R$37.5 million in realized GP and financial income this quarter, up more than 2,000% on a year-over-year basis, coming from gains in our liquid funds portfolio and dividend distributions from the company's proprietary position in listed REITs. As we discussed in the past, We expect financial income to remain a relevant contributor to distributable earnings in the coming few quarters as we are currently going through peak interest rates in Brazil. However, please note that the local markets gained some traction in the third quarter, which positively affected cash allocation gains in our liquid portfolio, allowing us to post a stronger than average quarterly results. We continue to aim to results of at least 80% of the CDI rate for the long term of the liquid portfolio as we continue to keep a balanced and conservative allocation. In the medium to long term, we should see financial income component in our distributable earnings gradually migrating towards FRI as we deploy capital in our private market products and leverage fundraising for these products. As of the third quarter, Vinci reached a total GP commitment of roughly 1 billion reais across private markets and closed-end products, with a little more than one-third already being called. The remainder will be called over time as funds deploy capital into new investments. Leveraging the launch of new and existing products and our ability to raise AUM from these products from third-party investors continue to be the main strategic objective of our cash balance long-term. Turning to slide 18, we go through our adjusted distributable earnings. Adjusted distributable earnings totaled 73.2 million reais, or RON, real, and 32 cents, up 19% on a year-over-year basis, boosted by growth in management fees and financial income in the quarter. Adjusted distributable earnings totaled 192 million reais, or $3.45 in the year-to-date, up 17% when compared to the same period last year. Adjusted DE margins posted on the quarter of expansion, with 51% in the third quarter, an increase of 4.7 percentage points year-over-year. We expect to continue to add shareholder value by expanding distributable earnings results over the quarters. as a combination of organic growth through fundraisings across our platform and inorganic AUM expansion through acquisitions such as the transaction with SPS Capital. Finally, in slide 19, we go over our cash and investment balance. We ended the quarter with R$1.4 billion in cash and net investments, or R$25.38 per share, or approximately $5 per share in cash positions. And with that, I'll turn it over to Sergio to go through our segments.
spk07: Thank you, Bruno. Turning to our segment highlights, as you can see in slide 21, our platform remains highly diversified, which we believe to be main contributor to the resilience of our business. With regard to the investments made in the VRS segment, 53% of our FIE in the year to date came from our private market strategies, followed by IPNS with 22%, liquid strategies with 20%, and financial advisory contributing with 5%. The same level of diversification is expected in our segment distributable earnings. Moving on to each of the segments, starting with our private market strategies on slide 22. This quarter, we are including our new strategy, 20SPS, into the private market segment results. FIE totaled R$26.9 million in the quarter, up 3% over the prior period. driven by the strong fundraising over the last 12 months and the incorporation of SPS capital. As a reminder, the acquisition of SPS was closed in the middle of the quarter. Thus, we are only being partially impacted by management fees. In the next quarter onwards, we will have the full impact from the SPS business. Private market average management fee rate was down year over year and quarter over quarter due to two main factors. First, due to the recent fundraising for Vinci Credit Infra within our credit strategy with R$900 million in AUM. Fees are charged on invested capital, so we should see an increase in management fees and in the average rate as deployment progresses. Second, in the last quarter, the private equity strategy had a significant inflow from a non-fee earning AUM mandate due to the structuring of a deal in VCP3, which also impacts our average fee rate. Closing on average management fee rate As the third vintage from SPS Capital is still investing its capital and charges higher fees on invested capital, so we should see a positive impact for the fee rate in the next quarter onwards. Segmented distributable earnings were R$ 32.6 million in the quarter, an increase of 19% year-over-year, boosted by higher contributions from dividend distribution in our proprietary position across listed REITs. Total AUM was R$27.6 billion for the end of the quarter, up 27% year-over-year, driven by strong fundraising in private equity, credit, and real estate, and the additional AUM from the acquisition of SPS. This quarter, we disclosed the press release announcing the successful capital raise for Virka, VINTE Partners' first agribusiness fund, a partnership between our credit and real estate segments, adding 306 million reais in perpetual capital to our platform. As previously mentioned by Alessandro and Bruno, momentum is really high for private markets. We should see some increasing AUM over the next few quarters, as we expect to hold the first closing for VICC, the second closing for VINCI Credit Infra, and new capital subscriptions for our fourth vintage in our flagship private equity strategies. And as most of these funds charge higher than our average consolidated fee, this should drive FIE results and margins in 2023. Moving on to slide 23, we go over results for liquid strategies. Fee-related earnings over the year to date totaled R$29.4 million, down 17% when compared to the same period last year. Total AUM was 10.8 billion reais at the end of the quarter, up hopefully 10% quarter over quarter, following marked depreciation and another stable quarter for net inflows, reassuring the stickiness of our investor base that remains resilient when facing a more challenging market environment. We expect that with interest rates starting its loosening cycle, we will observe a movement towards liquid strategies again, and our platform will be well positioned to capture this shift and translate this trend into AUM and revenues. Moving on to our IPS business, on slide 24, FIE totaled R$11 million in the quarter, up 14% on a quarter-over-quarter basis, meaning due to our notable fundraising over the last 12 months. Segment E totaled R$32.7 million over the year to date, down 25% year-over-year, primarily due to higher levels of PRE in the same period last year. following strong performance realizations coming from international exclusive mandates. Turning to slide 25, we cover our results for financial advisory. FIE for financial advisory was 3.6 million reais in the quarter, in line quarter over quarter, and representing a decrease of 76% year over year. due to the strong deal activity encountered last year. As discussed in previous quarters, revenues for financial advisory carry a certain level of seasonality and, although uncertain to predict, we currently do not expect a stronger level of revenue recognition prior to 2023. Finally, Moving on to slide 26, we go over results for the retirement service segment. Fee-related earnings for the quarter was negative 1.4 million reais and over the year to date, FIE represented a negative 4.5 million reais. As disclosed in previous earnings call, we are still in the process of structuring this segment. Therefore, We are only incurring expenses for the time being. We are very optimistic with the future of the segment and should see fundraising starting at the first half of 2023 as the products are launched. In the meantime, we will continue to provide updates on the development of the business and expect to be able to provide a more detailed review for VRS in in our fourth quarter 2022 results, as major milestones in the project are achieved. That's it for today's presentation. Once again, we'd like to thank you for joining our call.
spk06: With that, I'd like to open the call for questions. Operator? Thank you.
spk05: At this time, we will conduct the question and answer session. As a reminder, to ask a question, you will need to press star 11 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster and I apologize for any nameless pronunciation. Our first question will come from William Bernhard of Itao BBA. William, please proceed with your question.
spk03: Oh, thank you for the presentation. And my question here is regarding the liquid strategies. So the FRA levels this quarter was lower compared to the last quarter and the last year, right? So I would like to understand this impact from the mark-to-market one-off. And if the levels we should expect levels similar to this quarter or the last quarter going forward at least for the next few quarters and then looking at the total fre I would like to understand how you expected to evolve in the fourth quarter of this year and then next year also so and particularly take a look and in how you look at the advisory segment if the mood is improving or not for the next quarters. Thank you.
spk08: Okay, William. This is Bruno. I'm going to cover your question. So in regards to the liquids FRA margin, what happened was a combination of some mark-to-market impact and some small redemptions that we had that accumulated over the past few quarters. So revenues were a little bit down when you compare on an over year basis. And the other thing was that once we had the decline in the advisory revenue, the cost allocation for the corporate center, it was rebalanced. So that means that the other verticals had to cope with more of the corporate center costs. So it ended up affecting the margin of the liquid business a little bit more this quarter right uh going forward i mean if you look into the fourth quarter there there was an appreciation uh in aom uh in the third quarter so we're likely gonna have a little bit more of a tailwind from revenues in in liquid there but i wouldn't i wouldn't expect uh margins from from liquids to change materially uh i mean from the levels that we had uh this quarter probably improve a little bit but not substantially. In terms of advisory, what we have been saying is that last year was a very strong year, so we had around 60 million revenue. This year, when we came into the year, we knew that the pipeline was looking a little bit slower for 2022. For 2023, when we look at the pipeline of deals for 2023, the ones that are able to be closed in 2023, I would say probably we are somewhere in the middle between 2022 and 2021. Difficult to say if it's exactly in the middle, if it's a little bit lower than the middle or higher, but today, from the vantage point that we have today, the expectation is that we should have a year that should be... between 21 and 22 from a revenue standpoint in the advisory business. I don't know if I covered all your questions, but those were the ones that I had here.
spk03: No, that is great. Thank you for the answer.
spk05: Thank you. Thank you, William. Our next question comes from Pedro Lejuk of Itao BBA as well. Pedro, you have this mic. Hello, can you hear me? Yes, Pedro, we can hear you.
spk02: All right, great. Thank you so much. So first on two questions, please. On a more broader perspective, as we look into the next year, you mentioned reduced uncertainty now with elections behind. Am I helping on some products? We certainly agree that the moment is opportune to invest, and Brazil looks good.
spk01: could you elaborate a little bit and which products you believe will drive the most under this business cycle that's now unfolding for us that would be the first question thank you hi Pedro this is Alessandro speaking I try to address your questions of course now as we have the elections behind us with the reduction of this uncertainty in with interest rates reaching a peak after this tightening cycle. We believe we've coped with the lower, I'd say one of the lowest ever allocations for the international LPs that we talked with. We believe that private markets will benefit a lot with that. We continue to be, we have a very constructive view on the private equity VCP for fundraising going forward to next year. We also are highly optimistic about the prospects of fundraising of our climate change fund that's related to infrastructure. We are having a very good welcome to this product from the international base. And also we have been discussing a lot of international mandates for equities. that will be allocated in Brazil. So these three, taking the point of view of the international LP community, would be the ones that we are believing that will see the most of the inflows coming from next year. Talk a little bit about the local LP universe. We are optimistic with the, I would say, the recovery of the fundraising activity for the REITs, so the real estate listed funds. We already saw that a bit with VICA, that's our agribusiness fund that, in a way, goes to the same type of markets. And we saw a recovery in prices in the last quarter for our real estate investment trusts, the listed FEEs. So we believe that very soon we will have more robust fundraising activity for that. So I would say that the local institutional clients will start also, and we are already seeing these interests coming back for more long-term yield-related assets, especially in infrastructure. So we also believe that we'll have some flows coming from local institutional investors for infrastructure products going forward to 2023.
spk06: Thank you.
spk02: If I may, I have a second question. It's very clear, by the way. It's very helpful. On a second, I know also with a more broader perspective. We're seeing big banks get hurt in retail credit in Brazil, but doing well in corporate and agro. So how are you seeing the broader capital market perspective, competitive environments, and how could you shield yourself potentially from the greater role of public banks as BMDS in this next administration? Thank you.
spk01: Okay, that's a very good question. For us, as you know, we have more like uncorrelated, I would say, activity with this, I would say, what's driving the results of the banks that we have been seeing the last few days, especially. But I would say where we would see maybe some competition and from a different approach from the state-owned banks will be more on the private credit side. But we are in a very specific niche of more like a high-grade, very, very long-term type of credit where we should see maybe BNDS act a little bit more, but even BNDS is not exactly in the same type of structures that we are. So we are a little bit junior related to BNDS, but it's still very long term with real assets as guarantee of our loan. So I would say that there we could see some petitions, but for the location, but we not see much. since we ask for a higher spreads that normally BNS asks when they go more further on the, I would say, the capital structure of the companies. Talking about the author verticals, to be very honest with you, not see that affecting too much. Coming back a little bit on the beginning of your question, we, as you know, on the, especially on the the funding side, the liability side of our business, where the money comes from, we have a very, very low exposure relatively to the rest of the asset management industry coming from retail investors and from distributors and allocators that this is a little bit north from 10% of our total AUM. So that's why we do not see this affecting much also the overall activity in capital markets and the flows of money through retail affecting much of our business. So I don't know if I answered your question, but that's how we see this developing going forward.
spk02: That's very complete and I appreciate the thoughts. Thank you so much.
spk05: Thank you, Pedro. As a reminder, if you do have a question, please press star 101 on your telephone and follow the prompt. Our next question is coming from Ricardo Buschpigel of BTG Patois. Ricardo, please proceed with your question.
spk04: Good night, everyone. Congrats on the good results. I have two questions on my side. First, can you please comment what are the next steps to seize all the synergies after the acquisition with SPS Capital? And also, is Vinci studying to buy other asset managers given its high cash position? And if so, in what sort of segments should we expect? Thank you.
spk08: Ricardo, this is Bruno. Thanks so much for the questions. In regards to Vinci SPS, the structure of SPS was already very lean. I wouldn't necessarily see any synergies from a cost or integration standpoint. I think synergies there, I would say mostly they come from two sides. One is on sourcing and collaborating with the rest of the platform. As we said in the call that we announced acquisition, this was a part of the business that was a gap that was very clear. And what happened was that we were generating a lot of deal flow and potentially having opportunities to deploy capital in a special situation structure. But we didn't have the correct vehicle or the correct capital pool to deploy those opportunities right forward. So I think that one thing that we are noting is that Mifon and team, they have been able to work very closely with other verticals at the firm and already leveraging this partnership potential from a deal flow standpoint, right? Deals that we received over time and that were not suitable for our traditional strategies. And the other point, I think we're gonna start to see materializing in 23. We are now starting to map out the 23 launches. So products that are structured products that we should launch in 2023. We have a couple of positive developers in that front. So today we are budgeting potentially VIR5 resuming and coming back to market in the second half of 2023. And also Vintage SPS, Vintage 4, potentially coming to market in the second half of 2023. When that happens, I think that there's going to be a lot of potential synergies because the potential addressable market for the strategy will be greatly enhanced. We will be able to work with international LPs in the strategy, which we didn't have obviously in the past. We'll be able to work with local distributors to work on partnerships for potential distribution locally. Obviously tap on our high net worth individual vertical as well so I think that there will be a lot of synergies going forward on the fundraising side and potentially leverage fundraising for for that platform right in regards to M&A we continue to analyze potential opportunities so we are looking into opportunities that address potential gaps in the strategy that we see that could be addressed by M&A, so eventually increase our funding capacity. In the asset management side, I think today, given the breadth of the platform, I don't see a lot of additional M&A that we can do to broaden more our mix. but we could increase the depth depending on the type of product. So we do see a continuing flow of M&A coming our way. We continue to analyze opportunities that can add value, not only to be accretive for us in the short to medium term, but also to add value for the platform on a strategic sense in the medium and long term as well.
spk06: Very clear. Thank you. Operator, sorry, do we have any other questions?
spk05: Yes, I just have, sorry, Caio Frato of UBS is online right now. Do you have a question, Caio?
spk09: Hey, yes.
spk04: So thank you very much for the opportunity for asking questions. I have two quick on my side here. First, on the financial income, I just would like to have a review about if we could consider that this level of financial income could be sustainable for the next quarters. And moreover, I would like to understand your views about the performance fees going forward. If there is any expectation of any performance fee already for the fourth quarter in any of your strategies, and what can we expect for the following quarters as well? Thank you.
spk08: Okay. Thank you, Caio, for the questions. This is Bruno again. So I think we tried to convey the message during the call, but I'd like to take advantage of your question to reinforce it. I think the third quarter financial income, obviously there is a benefit from the fact that interest rates are at the peak levels now, right? So obviously that is a important part of the of the boost that we received in that in that line in the third quarter however we did have very good I would say drivers of performance within the liquid funds that we were allocated in the quarter so we we would expect probably a partial sustainability of the number, right? A part of it has to do with a higher rate. Part of it has to do with good performance in the funds. I would say not likely that we're going to be able to sustain. Obviously, it could happen. But the target is not to have the level of returns that we did in the third quarter, probably a little bit lower. Perhaps, I would say probably 10%, 15% lower. than we had in the quarter, as we had guided to that at least 80% of CDI rate. I think that's a level that we feel comfortable in delivering over the long term. So that's the first question. The second question, regarding performance fees, we expect not in 2022 any significant change. I think what happened with the with the rebounding markets in Brazil is that we have gotten closer to the high watermarks, although we are not still above them, but I think the gap has reduced in the past quarter and a half, I would say, probably. And then looking forward, we do expect a big realization of performance to happen in 2023, from the remaining assets in our SIP infra funds. So that is booked in our balance sheet. We have been working to get that asset up and running, still in a final pre-operational phase, but we are getting close to have it up and running. Once it's up and running, we feel it's a very liquid asset. So we would expect it to be realized at some point, hopefully in the first half of 2023. That will have a potential interesting impact in the results. North of 15 million in our distributed warranties number because we have a combination of performance and GP commitments in the fund. So the combination of the two should have a an interesting bump in our DE once that transaction closes. And then thinking about the liquid side, and I was talking with Sesh the other day here, this was a line that was a big contributor to us in 2019 and 2020. We had PREs that were very relevant and even more so at the time because our FRA was not as big as today. on a relative basis to our distributable earnings, the contribution was even more significant. And this is something at some point we'll resume, right? We are in a moment where the markets are not allowing us to charge performance on these funds on a more significant way. But once that happens, they could be material contributors to RDE. Hopefully that starts to happen again some point in 2023.
spk06: Okay, thank you. That's really clear. Thank you, Bruno.
spk05: Thank you, Caio. Thank you, Caio. At this time, I would like to hand it back to Alessandro Horta for some closing remarks.
spk01: So I would like to thank you all for your continuous support, and we hope to talk to you again in the next quarter. So have a good night, and thank you again. Thank you, Alessandro.
spk05: Thank you for everyone's participation today. This does conclude the program and you may now disconnect.
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