WISeKey International Holding Ltd

Greetings ladies and gentlemen and welcome to the YSK International Holding Full Year 2024 Financial Results Earnings Conference Call. As a reminder, this call contains forward-looking statements. Such statements involve certain known and unknown risks, uncertainties, and other factors which could cause the actual results, financial condition, performance, or achievements of YSK International Holding Limited to be materially different from any future results, performance, or achievements expressed or implied by such forward-looking statements. WISE-Key is providing this communication as of this date and does not undertake to update any forward-looking statements contained herein as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. A brief question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. If anyone should require operator assistance during the conference, please press star zero on your telephone keypad. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It's now my pleasure to introduce Carlos Moreira, founder and chief executive officer of WiseKey. Sir, please go ahead.

Good afternoon to all of you joining us today from Europe, and good morning to all of you joining us from the United States. I am joined today by our chief financial officer, John O'Hara. I'll start this call by providing highlights of the company performance and subsidiary level initiatives for the full year 2024 and outlook for 2025. Then John will provide a full report on our financial condition in greater details. Before I start, for all of you new to the Wyski story, I would like to provide a short overview of the corporate structure. Wyski specializes in cybersecurity, digital identity, blockchain, Internet of Things, IoT solution, and post-quantum semiconductor. As a computer infrastructure provider, Wyski delivers secure platforms for data and device management across various industries, including finance, healthcare, defense, and government. Leveraging its robust cybersecurity and public infrastructure, PKI, Wiseki ensures traditional encrypted communication and strong authentication, while also focusing on next-generation security throughout post-quantum cryptography. Wiseki Holding Company encompasses several specialized operational subsidiaries. Each subsidiary plays a crucial role in the Wiseki ecosystem, contributing throughout independent research development and expertise while integrating their technology into overall wise key platform these are specifically clsq which was listed on the nasdaq in may 2023 under the symbol laes which focuses on advanced semiconductor technology and post quantum cryptography WISE-ID offers root of trust and PKI services central to the WISE-D digital identity and encryption services. WISE-AD offers a space technology division utilizing PICO satellites for secure communication from space. Weisart is the trusted blockchain and NFT segment of the group, offering secure digital asset solution and then CL Coin AG, which incorporated in 2024 in Switzerland, develops the CL Coin platform and focuses on the decentralized physical internet, DPIN. That said, 24 has been a pivotal year for WiseKey. We ended the year with a very strong balance sheet, strategic technology milestones, and a clear roadmap to take advantage of the new opportunities ahead. from launching 17 secure satellite in partnership with SpaceX and further advancing negotiation or semiconductor personalization center strategy to scaling or blockchain platforms and developing post-quantum chips. We have created a solid foundation across every layer of digital trust infrastructure. We started 2025 on a very strong note and have now entered what I define as the year of wise key convergence. This is more than a strategy. It is a paradigm shift. We are bringing together four foundational pillars, semiconductor, satellite, blockchain, and digital identity into a unified and interoperable ecosystem. This convergence allows us to offer end-to-end solutions where each component reinforces the other, enabling exponential innovation and resilience. For instance, our post-quantum secure chips developed by a semiconductor subsidiary, CLSQ, are now being embedded into YSAT satellites to create a secure foundation for a decentralized IoT infrastructure connecting Earth to space in an encrypted way. Blockchain and identity platforms like CL Coin and YSAT-D are being deployed to power autonomous tamper-proof transactions between machines, satellites, and users. Combining this with our partnership with Hedera Distributed Ledger brings transparency and immutability to those transactions. Additionally, our work with the Swiss Army is proceeding with the testing of a secure smartphone and secure communication with our WISAT satellite. This convergence approach solutions and positions Wysky at the intersection of some of the most critical transformation of our time, such as quantum resilience security, space-based connectivity and the decentralized economy. We are not just adapting to a future digital era, we are building it. For Wysky 2025 is expected to be a year of execution on a scale whether or integrated business unit aim to deliver tangible impact. Along these lines, I'd like to briefly highlight the strategic initiatives we are undertaking at each of our subsidiaries and which we have made progress in 2024 and have set the stage for continued growth in 2025 and beyond. So starting now with CLSQ subsidiary. Throughout its Quasar platform, CLSQ developed quantum resistant technology to protect data against future quantum threats, aligning with global standards like those for NIST. Those quantum computers are to arrive into the market in the next three to five years, as disclosed by many leading organizations. So we need to be ready now. CLSQ's future strategy is building around four key priorities. The first one is the commercial launch of the post-quantum chips. We are targeting the launch of the new post-quantum chip, two of them, for IoT, PC, tablets, and mobile phones, and various industrial applications including medical, military, and automobile sectors and expansion of chip fabrication partnerships to increase output for the enterprise and government security solution. In that regard, CLSQ has set an ambitious five-year target to capture 20% of the trusted platform model market, what we call TPM, a goal supported by strong market engagement. By the end of 2024, CLSQ will have secure over 60 qualified leads and one design in for its CPM product, which are slated for commercial launch in 2025. We are also developing quantum resistant ASIC, which are basically quantum design secure chips for specific large client needs, in particular in the automobile industry. Second, we are executing targeted acquisition, investments and joint ventures. These include the completion of the negotiations to acquire 100% of IC Apps, which is a French company located in Grenoble before 2025 year end. investment in a start-up engaged in quantum computing and AI initiative as part of the project we call the SEAL Quantum Initiative and the establishment of an Observed Semiconductor Personalized and Test Center in Spain for which we are in the final state negotiation with the Spanish Authority, plus the development of similar OSPTCs in India, the United States, and the Middle East and Africa. Third, we are making R&D an investment, a strategic investment in post-quantum security. Following the investment we made, we are in the final stage of developing qualification, certification, and also industrialization process for quantum resistant TPM 2.0 chip. The commercial launch, as I mentioned before, is set by Q4, 2025. we are in discussions with over six interesting potential customers including major electronic manufacturers requiring to install this level of security in their products we are also scaling the first tpn pqc chip in broader asic offer for addressing the medical defense and iot market settlements fourth We are expanding trust services by scaling managed PKI solution for matter certification for IoT devices and home devices and enterprise security. Expanding SSL, TLS, and GSMA certificates offering and pushing adoption for our Ines platform, which is a PKI post-quantum cryptography platform, which includes the latest features. So now moving to the YSAT subsidiary. YSAT.Space is deploying low Earth orbit ecosystems to provide secure IoT connectivity for remote applications, aiming to enhance global coverage for IoT ecosystem, address growing market demand for secure satellite-based communication solution, supporting critical infrastructures and underserved regions of the world. Recent developments that we had include the strategic partnership with the Swiss Army throughout the initiation of new projects, an agreement with RUAG, the Strategic Integrator for the Swiss Army Forces, for a national army project focusing on device-to-device communication, which includes the space component. Launch of 17 mini satellites in the last three years with SpaceX into orbit through a strategic investment and partnership with a startup in Spain with the name Fossil System, which is manufacturing those satellites after integrating our technology and post-quantum semiconductors. Over the next 36 months, YSAT Space plans to deploy up to 88 new generation satellites following the successful January 2020 launch we did with SpaceX from California. In conjunction with Hedera Network, we will pioneer the change of CL coin front of space, allowing for first time to put blockchain on the space. This was successful tested in Q1 2025, marking the first ever demonstration of secure digital cryptographic and cryptocurrency transactions from space conducted from orbit and established a proof-of-concept redefining boundaries on blockchain integration. A new era of space-based digital economies has started with this project. So let's discuss cooperation between Ciel, Coin and Wysart. In 2024, CL Coin Wise Key Transactional IoT platform made significant progress towards developing and deploying decentralized digital identity solutions, leveraging blockchain to enable secure Web 3.0 transactions, using our WiseID platform to incorporate distributed identity capabilities and development timeline set for key milestones in 2025. WiseArt platform has been developed to serve galleries, artists, museums, curators and collectors that they want to create digital assets and digital twins into the platform, which is now in version 2.0 with an imminent release in the month of May of a new generation of the platform, which is backed by the WiseKey Root of Trust and blockchain compatible certificates of authenticity. So lastly, our WISE-ID subsidiary. In 2024, WISE-ID flagship digital identity platform introduced biometric authentication, self-servering identity, and post-quantum cryptography protocols, making it one of the most world-secure identity systems in operation. Complementing this, during 2024, WISE-ID announced the ongoing development and planned launch of the CL Phone, A ultra-secure smartphone designed with a privacy-by-design architecture. Currently in testing mode with several strategic clients, CL Phone Integrate, YCD, and CL Coin enable security and a post-quantum chip to secure communication, identity protection, and digital asset storage on a single hardware device and platform. So in regard to outlook, due to the several projects and technology investment I previously discussed across subsidiary, we expect Wysky performance for the full year 2025 to substantially improve as compared to the 2024. So our expectations are supported by our year-end solid cash position in excess of $90 million, which was predominantly secured via the over $80 million capital raise during December 24 by CLSQ. The availability of any additional financial should it be required and the much cleaner balance sheet put us in a very strong position. All these have put us in a position on where high growth areas such as post-quantum security, cybersecurity, next-generation semiconductors, satellite infrastructure and blockchain-based ecosystem can be further financed to reach a revenue generation level. Additionally, we have robust pipeline of secure and pending business opportunity exceeding $150 million for the period 26 to 28, supported by a growing public sector and defense partnership that they will use in this conversion I mentioned before, and in particular, getting ready for what we call quantum security. Currently, our current revenue sources, including CLSC semiconductor revenue, which has been the main revenue contributor in 2024, and also in prior years, as we spin it off the semiconductor business. We anticipated that our new quantum resistant chip will be available on the market in Q4-25, and WiseKey foresees generating substantial returns for the full scale commercial deployment of this quantum resistant chip starting in 26. The growth is expected to be driven by the integration of chip revenue from new sources and expansion in chip personalization services, additional revenue by YSAT, and the consolidated revenue from our planning investment. WiseKey has therefore taken several initiatives to develop new revenue streams and strengthen net results. This initiative includes the development of semiconductor personalization center in Spain. In that regard, WiseKey and CLSQ, jointly with a company with the name Odin and T-Protect, two Spanish companies with extensive experience in IoT, plan to establish in the region of Murcia in Spain a center of excellence in cybersecurity and microchip with a personalization capability. The project called Quantix Edge is in the final stage of approval process by SET, which is the Spanish government entity responsible for funding under the per-key CHIP budgets. Second, the consolidated revenue for the acquisition opportunity, including the potential IC-ALP acquisition, if completed, only now pending on government authorization, will booster CLSQ application, a specific integrated circuit, ASIC development and further strengthening WISE's key portfolio of products. Plus, IC-ALP's entrance into the automobile and pharmaceutical and medical industry will allow CLSQ to identify new clients in this industry that will require post-quantum capability. Third, YSAT New Generation Satellite as we are planning six more launches during 2025 and 2026 with the next one currently scheduled for June 2025 with SpaceX in California. And fourth, the commercial launch of Steelcoin T-IoT, which means Transaction on Internet of Things, following on the successful proof of concept carry out in Q1 2025 CLcoin is working to identify partners to perform other approval concepts and further demonstrate its readiness for industrialization of its TIoT solution. Fifth, the offering on quantum as a service. In 2025, Wiseki advanced his commitment to quantum computer by investing in Colibri TD, a pioneering quantum technology French company aiming to integrate Colibri quantum as a service platform into the CLSQ quantum roadmap and quantum platform. These initiatives and steps we took to scale up our global footprint via key partnerships with renowned distributors and sales representatives, it is crucial to create market presence, have a strengthened wide-scale market position, and are expected to fuel our growth by leveraging each partner's expertise and established networks. So this concludes our prepared remarks. I would like now to give the floor to John for his presentation. Thank you very much for your attention.

Thank you, Carlos. As Carlos mentioned earlier, 2024 results demonstrated WiseKey's resilience during a transitional year. For the full year 2024, we reported revenue of 11.9 million, which was down from 30.1 million in financial year 23. And this, as expected, reflected 2024 being a transitional year with semiconductor customers gradually shifting to our next generation quantum resistant solutions and therefore delaying building their inventory until the release alongside the impact of the excess inventory accumulation by customers in 2023. We ended the year with a cash balance in excess of $90 million and also had a much cleaner balance sheet with significantly reduced convertible debt and warrants overhanging as well as significantly less traditional debt. This strong cash position will help us continue investing in growth opportunities, both organic and through mergers and acquisitions. During the year, we invested $7 million in research and development for the development of new projects and technologies, including CLSQ's post-quantum chip, Sealcoin, and our YSAT next-generation satellites. On that note, the first engineering samples of our new quantum resistant secure microcontroller delivered in Q4 in 2024 in line with our semiconductors research and development plan initiated in 2022. We are on target to make our QVolt TPM the next generation of secure microcontrollers built by CLSQ on our new secure RISC-V CPU available on the market in Q4 2025 with the first revenues expected to be generated in 2026. Our $115 million pipeline of secured and pending business opportunities over the period from 2026 to 2028, as of April 15th, 2025, demonstrates, we believe, the market interest in our new products. Reinforcing Carlos's message, our strong cash position, investments in high growth areas, such as post-quantum cybersecurity, next generation semiconductors, satellite infrastructure, and blockchain-based ecosystems, Our robust pipeline of secured and pending business opportunities, which exceeds $115 million for the period from 2026 to 2028, potential merger and acquisitions, and the growing public sector and defence partnerships have put us in a very strong position to grow our revenues and improve our bottom line in 2025 and beyond. We look forward to report our progress in the coming months. This concludes our prepared marks. I would now like to open the line to Q&As.

Thank you. At this time, we'll be conducting a question and answer session. If you'd like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star 2 if you'd like to remove your question from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star keys. Our first question comes from the line of Matt Kalenko with Maxim Group. Please proceed with your question.

Hey, thanks for taking my questions. Just a couple from me. First, can you talk about, maybe give us a little bit more detail about that pipeline number you offered as of April 15th? You know, how do you qualify the pipeline? How competitive do you think that will be contested? Just any more color you can provide around it.

yeah sure so the the pipeline we obviously value everything based upon upon our estimated sort of size of the the client opportunity which is a constantly evolving constantly evolving number you know when we first start off we obviously don't necessarily have the full visibility of the required volume so it does take an element of estimation in there and we tend to take a very conservative approach We also then split them between going from the most kind of speculative where we have identified an opportunity coming down to them when we've got through the qualifying of an opportunity into the design in and design win. Of course, the design win being the stage where we have received our first purchase order from the client. As far as how competitive the marketplace is, it does depend a little bit. We believe that particularly in the TPM market and in the post-quantum market, it's a market with significant barriers to entry, then as the design and development of these chips is a very expensive long-term process. And we believe there's only a handful of competitors on the market for this work. On the conversations we're having to date, we believe we are competitive on price and certainly we believe we are more flexible to specific client needs and more able to adapt our products than some companies who maybe want to, you know, who would require a higher volume before they would go down a slightly more bespoking route. So, you know, yes, as we've always found in the semiconductor industry, there will be competition from some of the usual names. We do feel that the market is big enough to give us a, I think we've quoted elsewhere, we've set ourselves a target of capturing between 10 and 20% of the TPM market over the next three to five years. And we believe we're confident in our ability to do that.

Got it, thank you. If I could maybe follow up a little bit on that. I think you mentioned expecting your first revenue from post-quantum capable chips in first quarter 2026. So to the extent that, you know, I guess when will we, when will you have visibility into, you know, kind of what volumes will look like? when the product is ready for, you know, volume shift shipping. In other words, like on that pipeline, do you expect, you know, decisions to be made by like midpoint of this year of yes or no, or is it a little more complicated than that?

So, so you're talking about client decisions specifically there, Matt. Yeah. You're asking about sort of when the clients will make their decisions.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Yes, so certainly, you know, we are already in active discussions. We are with clients where we have a strong relationship. We have given them kind of first-run samples, so they're able to test and see how the products fit. The more commercial launch with the sort of the final version will come in Q4, but we're, you know, on some clients, we would expect to start to get that information between now and the end of the year, probably into sort of Q3 and Q4. There are elements where we are going through getting the certifications, so depending on client requirements. Some of them are happy just to know that we've applied for the certification and kind of believe that that indicates that we will get the certification. Others want to wait until we receive that, which means then we're at the, We're at the whims of the certifying authorities such as NIST and the FIPS certifications. So, you know, we'd expect by the end of the year to have probably a pretty good sight into the demand for 2026. And I would say probably once we've gone through the half year and announced our half year results, so we're coming towards the end of Q3 when we announce the interim results, we'd expect to also have a good indication on the you know on the first half of 2026 as well um yeah but then i suppose adding to that there are obviously some clients where the process will take will take longer um so it's yes it's never evolving beast got it thank you i'll jump back in the queue

Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Kevin Deedy with HC Wainwright. Please proceed with your question.

Hi, Carlos. John, thank you for having me on the call too. John, since you're on a roll, can we talk a little bit about margins in the second half and inventory levels and what you think that portends for the first half of 25 and the second half of 25? If you look at margins... Yeah, if you look at margins, they almost doubled, right, from the first half – or more than doubled from the first half to the second half, and yet inventory was cut in half. So I'm kind of wondering what happens to legacy product price in advance of the quantum-capable chip shipping at the end of the year?

So – As of today, and certainly from all indications we've got from our suppliers, because the legacy products aren't, you know, whilst they are reducing in demand and so on, they're not, there are certain products where they are still required. So we're not seeing suppliers put pressure on to kind of to increase the prices to to produce what's becoming a potentially sort of obsolete product. So we don't anticipate any significant adverse impact on our margin certainly over 2025. I think as a percentage, the margin was hit in 2024 by the fact that we had some, there were some charges in our cost of sales that related to the kind of minimum production quantities and so on, which as we started reducing our old stock level to avoid having an obsolescence problem and to reflect the reduced demand in 24, it meant we did happen to absorb some kind of one-off almost fixed cost of sales items that made our margin look worse than it truly was on an underlying basis. We do expect that to come back, particularly in the second half of 25 and really pick back up to kind of the 2023 type levels. Okay, I guess I'm a little lost. So you... Sorry, Kevin, just quickly. I'm talking percentage margin there, just to be clear.

Yeah, no, no, no. Yeah, I understand. But listen, as I ran the numbers... I was looking at 21.5 in the first half of 24, bouncing up to 47.5. I guess I'm having a hard time getting the dots to connect in my little brain. You suspect that you'll be able to maintain pricing for the remaining chips that you have in legacy product through the balance of the year?

Yes, that's what we're currently expecting. Some of the legacy products will still continue beyond 25, so not everyone is end-lifing at the same time. Okay. Obviously, there is always pressure from clients to squeeze costs as a standard in business, so But yeah, we would expect that second half margin to be something closer to the real number.

I see. Okay. Okay. Thanks. That helps. With regard to the Swiss Army contract, I got the impression reading through the docs this morning that that contract is live now and I guess on the 17 or 18 satellites you have in your constellation. And I'm just wondering how you see revenue flowing through the P&L for the balance of the year.

Yeah, the development contract is live, and we are working with the Swiss Army on various tests and so on, particularly around the technologies. For instance, I believe we announced – around the seal phone and the secure communications, which we're testing that to prove that it works with the satellites. Revenue-wise, we've therefore got some contracts which will get relatively small revenues at this stage. We're still at the early step of the project. So yeah, so it won't be in 25, it won't be a game-changing number. Certainly as I'm sitting here today, it's still much more in the research and development phase where we're working on proof of concepts together and kind of demonstrating the need, but there's obviously quite a few hurdles to jump through, particularly when you're dealing with the more public sector. So we're still probably expecting that more to come through as we go into 2026 and beyond.

Carlos mentioned a fleet size or constellation size approaching 88 satellites. And I'm wondering if you're, at least as I understood previously, the idea was that WiseKey and WiseSat would work with partners to fortify that network. and uh help subsidize the the the manufacturer and launch and and i'm i'm wondering if you can give us any insight on to how you see those partnerships developing and i guess to that point whether or not the swiss army is is helping subsidize launch manufacture and launch as well um

Unfortunately, I can't go into too much detail on what exactly is within the Swiss Army contract, and certainly as we head towards the target, I think the actual target, like I said, we're looking to deploy a further 88, as Carlos said, over the next three years. I think the goal is to get, depends on where we go, but I think there's a goal to get somewhere around 100 in the constellation in total. which kind of then gets roughly to a live connectivity. So the FOSA partnership is probably the best example of how we feel that works well, where there are satellites that we will launch together and that will be very much a YSAT funded launch, whether that's subsidized by our partners or whether that is paid for by us. Ultimately, obviously, the goal would be we're looking to get those fully subsidized to the extent possible. But then also, FOSTA themselves will potentially launch their satellites with other partners. And so we have an agreement there where we look to share the technology. And therefore, we have the access and the connectivity to their satellite constellation within our numbers, so when we talk about the 17 satellites that have been launched, some of those have been FOSA launches which are then secured by our technology, secured by YSAT, and we have the ability to connect to those. So it's a bit of a mix, and we're looking to, we've got two or three advanced conversations, I believe we announced one a month or so ago with a partner to look to develop a similar kind of understanding and agreement.

A couple of questions on the IC app acquisition, please, John. One is what sort of revenue contribution do you expect? When do you think it'll close? And what technology comes with that deal?

that fills a hole that you guys perceived existed in the seals sq quantum chip delivery okay so um we we will announce uh more clear guidance on the revenue numbers when we when we close the deal the the target is we've we've we're progressing through that we as carlos said the item outstanding is In order to acquire a company in this sector in France, particularly in the semiconductor sector, you need a government approval. This is, even though obviously WiseKey already owns one French company and has gone for an acquisition before, we still need to get the approval again because of the nature of the technology and to ensure that we're going to continue to support that industry in France. So that's the main item. In short, the guidance is it can take anywhere between two and four months, and we started the application process about a month ago. So, optimistically, we'd hope to get something before the half year, but it might fall into July, maybe even August. before we get that approval. It just depends on how fastly the wheels turn in the government there. The main area, and I'm happy to sort of set up a call with Bernard, who can probably explain this a lot more in depth than I can, but the main area, obviously, the ICRs, they work in the full ASIC design and designing the hardware of the chips and so on. So for instance the hand how we first developed our relationship with them was We worked with them on the on the design of our of our post quantum chip where they supported us particularly in the in the in the hardware side, I believe And so yeah, we feel it then creates a much more sort of Full-scale solution that we can offer so we're not just offering kind of to to to supply secure semiconductors, but we can also support clients with the full design as well, going from, you know, right from the A to Z of a project there. And we've already had one or two projects come across our desk where previously we would have needed to find someone to subcontract a portion of the project to, which then immediately, you know, it makes it a bit harder to come across as a credible partner now, you know, we have that entire technology in-house, you know, and we also hope that with IC Alps on their side, where they're currently presenting design projects to their clients, not only will they do the design, but now they will, you know, as they've tried, as they have done on a couple of occasions, but they now have a much stronger support to offer both, not just the design, but the supply and sale of the chips behind it.

So, yeah, Again, I just kind of want to distill it down from my little brain, John. It seems to me it's more of a vertical integration. It gives you a little more flexibility in ASIC design. Is that fair?

Yeah, I think that's fair, yeah. Okay.

I apologize for holding your feet to the fire on that and appreciate the offer to speak to Bernard about it.

Yeah, certainly he would be in a much better place to get exact details. But, yeah, I believe that's a fair summary that you've made.

Okay. Well, listen, I don't know that I can handle going any deeper, but I really appreciate your take on it. The other thing that's interesting to me is the – the development of a transactional-based service layer on top of the technology that you're building with post-quantum and identification, and why is that? And I'm wondering, you know, maybe you can offer a couple of, for instances, an example, because it just It's just hard for me, given none of this is tangible, it's hard for me to imagine how that service would actually work and what problem you're solving.

So when you raise that question, just to double check, so you're talking about the seal coin issue. Exactly.

Sorry, I left out the most important word. I apologize. Thank you for covering that gap for me.

I just wanted to double check before I went off down the wrong route on the answer. From our point of view, there's multiple potential sort of proof of concepts that we can work on. There's kind of, you know, interchange of data and information and so on. However, the most simple one that I will give, because I, you know, I'll confess I don't have the best brain for when we go into this sector, but is down the route of, you know, if let's say I have an electric car and you have a solar panel, you know and then kind of the sort of the smart city concept I would be able to charge my electric car against your against your solar panels against the electricity you're producing and it would it would automate the exchange of the tokens to to make sure that you therefore receive the the consideration for your for you for the electricity you've generated and provided me with so that's kind of a very simple um basis uh but that kind of you know when you sort of scaled up into the into the smart city concept and the fact that you know you potentially have this you know sort of the you know the the entire city infrastructure to to operate on a similar basis that's kind of where it becomes quite quite significant and quite powerful and and uh do you think i'm wrong in assuming that given you know satellites are a global phenomenon that you'd be able to tie

you know, electric cars and they're charging, you know, to sort of an international, like suppose I, you know, I have to fill up my Tesla in the US and then I have it shipped to Switzerland and I can charge it there. Is that kind of some of the thinking?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it would be, it would be, yeah, cross border. It would not have to be sort of limited to single geographies.

Perfect. Well, thank you so much, John, for entertaining everything. Congrats on keeping the fires burning.

Thank you very much, Kevin. And similar on the offer with Bernay, if you do want to have a further conversation around the technology behind Sealcoin, I can put you in touch with Jonathan, who leads that division. So just let me know.

Will do. Thank you so much. Thanks, Kevin.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, if you'd like to join the question queue, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. Our next question comes from the line of Leo Carpio with Joseph Gunner. Please proceed with your question.

Hi. Good morning, gentlemen. I guess after that very detailed question and answer, I thought more a general 50,000-foot question probably would be appropriate. Given all the technologies you have in your platform and capabilities, Are you positioned to benefit from the general European rearmament trend that we're seeing, the whole spending of NATO for the next two to five years in terms of re-enhancing their capability, especially on secure communications and encryption? Thank you.

Hi, Leo. Thanks for the question. Yeah, for a short answer, yes, we believe we are, and certainly that is an avenue that we we are trying to explore and progress down, yeah.

Okay, and then a quick follow-up, in terms of your satellite customers, who are they right now, currently, and what you would envision in the next two years, Mark?

Thanks. So currently, obviously, we've announced that we've got the that we have the project ongoing with the Swiss Army, and we also have a – I believe we announced our partnership with RUAG as well. So those are our main partners at the moment. Like I say, we're still very much in sort of the development and the – in the development phase and the proof-of-concept phase on those. You know, from a growth point of view, we're – you know, we – We obviously believe those contracts will grow further. Then we've had conversations, I think, as our financial state, we've had conversations and, you know, working with various companies from sort of shipping companies for the tracking and the monitoring of goods. We're working with sort of agricultural companies for the environmental data on there. you know, communication and telecommunication companies we believe would come there. And then, you know, back to the point you mentioned earlier on a kind of a defense scale, we believe there's a strong argument for having this kind of this neutral network that's, you know, that's kind of Swiss-owned, Swiss-led. And so we also believe there could be sort of government and defense interest, particularly across in the EU at the moment on that.

Well, thank you for answering my questions.

No problem. Thank you.

Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our question and answer session. I'll turn the floor back to management for any final comments.

Okay. Thank you, operator. So, yeah, I would just like to conclude by thanking everybody for joining us today on this call. Please do not hesitate to Reach out to our investor relations team if you'd like any further information. And otherwise, I'll just wish you all a very good day. Thank you.

Thank you. This concludes today's conference call. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation.