Aegon Ltd. New York Registry Shares

Good morning, everyone. I would like to welcome you to this conference call on Agon's first quarter 2025 trading update. My name is Yves Cormier, Head of Investor Relations, and joining me today to take you through our progress are Agon CEO, Lars Friese, and CFO, Duncan Russell. Before we start, we would like to ask you to review our disclaimer on forward-looking statements, which you can find at the end of the presentation. With that, I would like to give the floor to Lars.

Thank you, Eve, and good morning, everyone. I will start today's presentation by running through our strategic and commercial developments before handing over to Duncan, who will update you on our capital results in more detail. So let me begin on slide number two with the key messages for the quarter. In Q1 2025, we continued to execute our strategy to grow and transform our businesses, and Despite the recent volatility in the financial markets, we are confident in our ability to deliver on our strategy and our targets. Operating capital generation before holding and funding expenses amounted to 267 million euros, driven by business growth in most strategic assets, which was partly offset by unfavorable mortality experience in our U.S. financial assets. From a commercial perspective, it was a good quarter. In the U.S., World Financial Group continues to grow its agent base. Life sales increased in both WFG and our protection solutions business. In retirement plans, we generated positive net deposits overall, and written sales were strong once again, although we experienced some outflows in midsize retirement plans. In the U.K., trends remain consistent with the path set out in our teach-in webinar last year. In international, we recorded an 11% year-over-year increase in new life sales after some slower quarters last year. Asset management generated solid net deposits from third-party clients on its global platforms business, but there were net outflows in our joint ventures. The capital position of our operating units also remained very solid as we entered the period of market volatility at the beginning of April. Looking forward, we expect to achieve all the group financial targets for 2025 as set out in our last capital markets day in 2023. Consistent with our plan to reduce our cash capital at holding to around 1 billion euros by the end of 2026, we also announced today a planned new share buyback program of 200 billion euros. This program is set to commence at the beginning of July and is expected to conclude before the end of the year. It follows the 150 million Euro program we are currently executing and demonstrates our ongoing commitment to returning access capital to shareholders unless we can invest it in value creating opportunities. Let's now move to slide number three to discuss the recent commercial performance of the Americas. In the first quarter of 2025, we continue to grow Transamerica's business, which is focused on middle of market America. Starting with World Financial Group, the number of licensed agents increased by 16% to 88,000 compared with the same quarter of last year. We saw higher activation rates of WFG agents resulting from WFG's activation program that offers training and various forms of support to help newer agents improve their productivity. While this has not yet resulted in an increase of the number of multi-ticket agents, Transamerica's market share in WFG increased to 66% from higher agent productivity in selling Transamerica's products. Consequently, new live sales in Transamerica's protection solution segment increased on the back of higher sales by WFG. Furthermore, within protection solutions, we continue to see growth in the Ryla product thanks to further improvements of our wholesale distribution productivity. We have established ourselves now as a top 10 player in this field in terms of sales in the U.S. market. In the savings and investment segment, we recorded higher net deposits in our retirement plan business compared with last year, driven by large market plans. In mid-size plans, we recorded net outflows of $283 million during the period due to lower gross deposits and elevated participant withdrawals. Written sales remain strong this quarter, which we see as a positive indicator for future growth in this segment. Within the retirement plans business, we saw further growth in the general account stable value product and in IRAs as we work to increase profitability and diversify revenue streams. Let's move on to an update on our other businesses on slide number four. At Agon UK, we remain on the path set out at our strategy teach-in in June last year. Commercial momentum in the workplace platform business remains strong. In the advisor platform, we continue to see the adverse impact of ongoing consolidation in non-target advisor segments as well as elevated levels of withdrawals. In the international segment, higher new life sales were generated in our joint ventures in Brazil and China. Both new life sales as well as non-life sales improved in our joint ventures with Santander in Spain and Portugal, while TLB is setting out on a path for profitable growth with the opening of a new representative office in Dubai. Our asset management business experienced positive third-party net deposits during the period. In the global platforms business, this decrease was attributed to higher net deposits in the first quarter of previous year due to the onboarding of a large client. In strategic partnerships, net outflows occurred as clients withdrew money from mutual funds in China. With that, I will now hand over to Duncan to discuss our financial performance in more detail.

Thank you, Lad. Good morning, everyone. Let me start with an overview on slide six. Operating capital generation before holding funding and operating expenses was €257 million, an increase of 4% year-on-year. Free cash flow amounted to 34 million euros in the period and mainly reflected a remittance from a joint venture in international, as well as 19 million euros of proceeds from ASR's share buyback program. Cash capital at holding stood at a very healthy 1.6 billion euros at the end of March. Gross financial leverage amounted to 5.1 billion euros, consistent with our target level. I'm moving now to slide seven where we address operating capital generation or OCG. OCG increased by 4% reflecting overall business growth. OCG from the US increased by 3% as business growth was partly offset by unfavorable claims experience. The first quarter was impacted by unfavorable mortality claims experience, part of which was expected from seasonality. The claims experience largely occurred in universal life a financial asset where we saw a higher number of claims, especially from old age policies. We continue to expect a quarterly OCG run rate for the Americas of 200 to 240 million dollars for the remainder of the year. In the UK, operating capital generation benefited year on year from markets and improved underwriting experience. In the international segment, positive underwriting experience at TLB resulted in an increase of OCG to 33 million euros. In the first quarter of 2024, OCG from asset management benefited from a favorable non-recurring expense item. Excluding this item, asset management's contribution to OCG increased. Finally, we confirmed our target of around 1.2 billion euros operating capital generation for 2025, and I will now turn to slide eight for an update of our capital position. In the first quarter, the capital positions of our business units remained robust and above their respective operating levels. The U.S. RBC ratio decreased by 7 percentage points compared with the end of December to 436%. Market movements and one-time items, including management actions, both respectively had a 5 percentage points negative impact on the ratio. The payment of a dividend from an operating company to our U.S. intermediate holding to pre-finance the planned half-year remittance to the group had a further 3 percentage points negative impact. operating capital generation contributed six percentage points to the RBC ratio. With respect to recent developments, the financial markets were very volatile in April, but during that period, our hedging programs performed as intended. In the U.S., this higher volatility resulted in an additional impact from hedging, rebalancing, and cross-effects, which is expected to have a single-digit negative impact on the U.S. RBC ratio in the second quarter. Consequently, the impact of the market movements in the second quarter could be estimated using the newly published sensitivities in the back of the presentation and adjusting for the one-time negative impact from market volatility I just referred to. In the UK, the solvency ratio of Scottish Exitable increased by three percentage points to 189% driven by the operating capital generation. I now turn to slide nine to give you an update of our discussions with the BMA. In 2023, Aegon's group supervision was transferred from the Dutch Central Bank to the BMA, and the transition period was agreed upon, which ends in December 2027. We announced today that Aegon will apply an aggregation approach to calculate its group solvency ratio under the Bermuda Solvency Framework after the transition period. This is a very similar approach to the one that is currently taken by Aegon, and consequently the impact on the group solvency ratio from the updated calculation method will be minimal. Furthermore, the BMA has concluded its review of the eligibility of Aegon's capital instruments. Aegon's Solvency II compliant instruments will continue to be eligible under the Bermuda Solvency Framework in the corresponding tiers under Solvency II and without further limitations. The €1 billion Junior Perpetual Capital securities, which were treated as grandfathered restricted Tier 1 until January 1, 2026 under Solvency II, will now be eligible as Tier 2 ancillary capital following that date. and until the end of 2029. Subject to review in 2029, this eligibility may be extended. The €423 million perpetual capital subordinated bonds will lose capital eligibility as of January 1st, 2026, consistent with current grandfathering treatment. On a pro forma basis, taking into account the upcoming end of the eligibility for the perpetual capital subordinated bonds, Aegon's Group Solvency Ratio would have been six percentage points lower compared with the group's solvency ratio of 188% at the year-end 2024, if this updated capital instrument eligibility had been applied at that time. With that, I will now move to slide 10 to talk about our cash position. Cash capital holding has barely changed over the period and remains extremely healthy. We returned €102 million of capital to shareholders through share buybacks, part of which will be used for share-based compensation plans. Free cash flow amounted to €34 million. Consistent with our capital management framework and our objective to reach the midpoint of the operating range for cash capital holding at the end of 2026, we today announced a planned new share buyback programme of €200 million. The programme is to start at the beginning of July 2025 and is expected to be completed before year-end. To wrap up on page 11, taking into account both our performance in the first quarter of 2025 and the recent macroeconomic developments We remain well on track to achieve all of our financial targets for 2025. With that, I would now like to open the call for questions. Please limit yourself to two questions per person.

Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, you will need to press star 1 and 1 slowly on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. Please be aware that we will take and answer one question at a time before moving to the next question. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. This will take a few moments. Thank you. We will now go to our first question. And our first question comes from the line of David Balmer from Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. Firstly, I wanted to ask about your commitment to reduce holding cash. So you'll now be buying back. 200 million euros worth of shares in the second half, which still leave you considerably above the 1 billion target by the time we get to full year 25 results. And this gives the impression that deploying capital towards maybe M&A might now be higher on your priority list than returning it to shareholders. So can you talk about your views on this and how to balance the two? Now, I'll pause here and ask my second question after. Thank you.

Thank you, David. I'll hand over to Duncan. Duncan? Sure.

Good morning, David. The commitment to reducing our cash capital from what is currently 1.6 billion, i.e. above our target range of 0.5 to 1.5, to the 1 billion by the end of 2026 is firm. So there's no change in that commitment at all. And we've always said that there are three means by which we could do that. The first is reducing leverage, which with the current portfolio we don't think we need to do. The second is investing in growth opportunities organically or inorganically. And the third is returning that money back to shareholders. And today, the announcement of $200 million is a step forward in that direction. But the commitment is that by the end of 26, which is not that far away, we'll be back down to the $1 billion of holding cash capital. If I take a step back, because I think you're asking why only $200 million and et cetera, Internally, we looked at three things. The first question we asked ourselves is how much capital do we need to utilize in order to bridge from where we are today to the $1 billion at the end of the period? The second is how will we get down there? So what is the formula which will do it? And as I mentioned, that could either be investing in growth opportunities or returning it to shareholders, either share buyback or special dividends. And the third is then how quickly do we do it? And as I pointed out, between now and the end of 2026 is not that long a period of time. And our preference is to spread it over that period in order to take into account potential volatility in financial markets and to manage through that.

Thank you. Secondly, I wanted to ask about enforced management because we've seen a real pickup in activity in the U.S. recently with transactions taking place across most of the types of business that you have in your financial assets. Are you looking to participate in this market or do you not see good enough opportunities at the moment to do third-party transactions? Thank you.

Yeah, you can take that.

There's no real change there. So I think it's fair, your point is fair that compared to when we started this and classified a large part of our balance sheet as financial assets several years ago, the depth in the market from a demand perspective has definitely increased, and we've seen a lot of transactions happening. We've always said that there are three ways, again, here where we can reduce our required capital. First is by taking unilateral actions, so that's actions we can just take ourselves. Second is bilateral, where we discuss and liaise with either customers or regulators around management actions. And the final one is third-party transactions, And we have undertaken some third-party transactions over the recent past, albeit of a fairly small magnitude. I'd say that we continue to look at that. We continue to engage. And if something turns out which makes sense and meets our criteria, we would definitely explore that.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Farouk Hani from J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead.

Hi, everybody. Thank you. My first question, coming back on the buyback, are you basically saying from a buyback perspective there will not be any more this year, or is that open depending on market circumstances and your circumstances? Just a clarification there. Secondly, on OCG, on the guidance that you gave of the 1.2 billion, which we reiterated this year, There's two parts to the second question. So, you know, doesn't that guidance look conservative in light of the non-recurring items that you highlighted in one Q, so you could explain that, you know, given the underlying OCG, you know, looks a little bit better. And then related to that, can you confirm or talk about any bridge to IFRS from these variances? My understanding was that OCG obviously does not see as much of an update to assumptions within the U.S. regime and therefore is more exposed to variances. So what comment can you, if you can make any, on IFRS variances? Thank you.

Okay, so why don't I take all those three. Now, on the share buybacks, what we said is that we anticipate completing this announced share buyback, which will launch at the beginning of July before the year end. and nothing else is off the table. The commitment is that we'll get down to a billion by the end of 2026. That then entails us having to decide how much capital we need to return, what our alternative options are in terms of investment and growth, and then the form by which we do that. But no, nothing else is off the table other than we're committed to getting down to a billion by the end of 2026. In terms of the latter one, IFRS versus OCG, You're right, there are differences in reserving basis, etc. We don't publish IFRS on a quarterly, so I prefer not to go into any detail on that. The only thing I'll guide you towards is the, or point you towards is the guidance we gave at the end of last year in terms of the run rate we expect to see both in the US and the group for IFRS operating profit. And then finally on the OCG run rate, well what I said at the full year was that we had several units which I think are trending quite well, the US, the UK asset management versus the original targets in 2023. And then we were facing a bit of a headwind in international, mostly due to the lower interest rates in China. And I think that remains the case. If you take our adjusted OCG, or let's say the OCG adding back the variances we witnessed in the first quarter, you're getting to a number of around 321 million for the group. Indeed, multiplying that by four would get you just below 1.3 billion, 1.284 precisely. which is above the 1,200. But if I add the run rate times three plus the first quarter, you're getting just above the, pretty much in line with the 1,200 we previously guided to. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Nazif Ahmed from UBS. Please go ahead.

Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. the financial assets in the US, you've still got about 1.4 billion to go to get it down to 2.2 over the next year and a half years. How much of the 1.4 billion can you get through just natural runoff? And how much would need some like you described, Duncan? And then the second question is around the dividends for 40 cents in tax. But you've done quite a lot of buyback since you set out that number. What's your kind of capital return policy? You talk about buybacks, but could you also increase the dividend per share to get the holding company cashed down to the $1 billion? Thank you.

The dividend policy, I think, is fairly clear. The $0.40 is the $0.40. And we'll aim to grow the dividend in line with our free cash flow. So that's a structural topic. The cash capital in the holding is excess capital because we target a range of $500 to $1.5, and we want to get down to $1 billion. So I don't think we'll deal with that excess capital through a run rate dividend increase versus our dividend policy that we instead dealt with either through share buybacks, special dividends, or investing in growth. On financial assets, you're right that we still have quite a move to go in terms of the current position versus the targeted end position. In one queue, we had some impacts from market movements, which increased the required capital and variable annuities on our variable annuity book. If I go back to the original capital markets day, there is a natural runoff in the portfolio, which varies by portfolio. So the variable annuity book runs off fairly steadily. Other parts of the book, for example, long-term care, take a lot longer just because of the way the reserving works out. So we are dependent, and we do need to put in place management actions to hit the target. Those actions could be, again, the unilateral or bilateral actions, which don't rely on transactions, but do still require effort on our part to get down there, and or through third-party deals. I think it's likely that we will need to do some third-party actions in order to get the target.

Thank you very much.

Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Ian Pearce from Exambi MP Paribas. Please go ahead.

Hi, morning. Thanks for taking my questions. The first one is if you could just touch on the hedging program and how that performed in the market volatility that we've seen sort of post quarter ends. And also, if there's been any learnings or anything you've seen in the performance of that hedging program that you've been able to implement or improve going forward. And the second one was just on the new business. Pleasing to see a return to a positive trend there. Just trying to understand if you see this as a base from which you're now expecting to see a return to the rates of growth you were seeing previously. And if you view the sort of performance in H2 last year as just a blip. or if you're still seeing improvements in productivity embedded to come. Thank you.

Yes, thanks, Ian, for your questions. Let me take the business question, and then Duncan, it's maybe good for you to talk about the hedging program and how it performed. On the new business, so if you take a step back and you look at the overall trading update we're getting today, we're basically seeing commercial momentum across all our business lines, apart from the advisor platform in the UK, which, by the way, was to be expected, and I'll comment on that in a minute. And we saw a slightly lower growth in third-party assets. They were positive, the net flows, but they were less positive than they were in the same period last year. So that's the overall picture. If you look at the US more specifically, in the US, and especially WFG, We have seen a growth of the agency sales force to 88,000 now, 16% up for the same period last year. We aim to continue to grow to 110,000 actually that we aim to achieve in the coming years, and we are well on the curve to get there. When it comes to the life insurance sales, so what you noticed is that we saw a subdued a sales profile in the fourth quarter. This quarter, that's materially different. So WFG has increased its life sales and not only WFG, but also we've launched a new solution on a life insurance product in the broker channel, which has also latched on quite well. And as a result, you see a 7% increase in the sales volumes, which we believe is the result of a lot of attention that our teams have worked with LAFG to bring new agents to the place that they are learning on how to produce, and that you grow very fast with an agency channel. You have sometimes some time lag as to when agents start to truly produce, et cetera. Now we see those efforts taking effect in a good way, and that is, I think, a good boding well for the remainder of the year. In Ryla sales, we are now one of the top 10 players in Ryla. And if you look all the last quarters, and this quarter is no different, and also Ryla sales have been strong, which I believe is also a good momentum. And then on the retirement side, we noticed overall net growth in our deposits, some outflows of $238 million in the mid-market plans, but quite a buoyant written sales profile. So these are sales of plans of which the assets will come into our books in the coming periods. We've now seen a number of quarters of quite strong written sales, so that means that in the coming periods, we need to see those assets coming in, and that is, again, more of an... that needs to happen in the coming quarters. You've seen the international profile with Brazil returning back to growth, which is good. An uptick in China, which, quite frankly, was... In China, there's, of course, the environment that sales have been subdued for quite a while, and it's a bit choppy there. Iberia, Spain, and Portugal, we're continuing to motor on with our successful joint ventures with Banco Santander. And in the UK, to round it off, we saw a continuation, actually, of the pattern that we've seen over the last four years, which is that the workplace business is doing very well and is very strong, that the advisor platform is still in a period of... having to be improved. We've had quite an extensive program outlined that our capital markets teach in in June last year. So that will take time to evolve. Duncan, hedging.

The hedging program performed exactly as we would have expected. So we were happy with it, to be honest. We mentioned the single digits. impact on the RBC ratio the variable annuity book had a modest drag from higher rebalancing costs basically that realized vol was higher than our implied vol assumption and then we had again some a modest drag from unhedged exposures on IUL and Ryla books of business in terms of lessons learned in terms of the VA book we actually we were very satisfied and that reflects the extensive work which has gone on over the past years and our deep understanding of that book. As RUL and RILA gets larger, we'll look to adapt our hedging programs also to fit that.

Thank you.

Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Michelle Balotore from KBW. Please go ahead.

Yes, thank you for taking my question. So the first question is about the holding cash. Can you remind us if there is any potential debt reduction impact over the next two years that may affect the level of holding cash? And the second question is about the long-term care, especially the factor that you showed, the net present value of the rate increases there. I mean, I think it's going well versus your target. Can you remind me if there is any impact from this matrix on the capital employed or capital generation in general? Thank you.

Okay, so on the holding company cash and on the debt level specifically, we've said consistently that the broad level of debt we have, which is around 5 billion euros, we're satisfied with given the current portfolio mix, and we'd only look to review that structurally if the portfolio changed. There can always be tidying up bits and bobs around the margin, which we can do, so I'm not going to rule that out. but structurally we don't need to reduce leverage and we don't need to use cash capital materially to reduce leverage. In terms of the second question was on long-term care. No, the way we deal with that book is that as our estimate of the cost of liability changes due to whatever reason, we look to implement premium rate increases to offset that. And we said previously that our target there was to keep the local cash flow test, the PDR, in a positive area, which means that we didn't want to impact our capital from the long-term book over the medium term. So no, it doesn't impact our cash generation or anything like that. It's a means of offsetting increases in the cost of liability. Thank you.

Thank you. Your next question. is a follow-up from David Balmer from Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Hello again. Just a few follow-ups, please. Firstly, on the capital generation in the U.S., if I adjust Q1 for the various items that you flag, it seems like it's quite a bit better than the underlying of the last few quarters and above the run rates that you mentioned at the start of the call, Duncan. So, Can you just explain what the drivers are for this good underlying performance in the U.S.? And then secondly, on new business, sorry, Lord, I couldn't quite get your answer about RILAs earlier. So, pardon me, but I'm just going to ask this again. So when we spoke at Q4, you suggested that the benefits from higher interest rates were being reinvested in growth in RILA and stable value, and I'm not quite sure how to how to see that in the data you're giving in Q1. So could you maybe give us a bit of color on the commercial performance in both? And then lastly, on the equity sensitivity in the US. So that's gotten better with lower equity markets. But is there anything that can be done to reduce the VA flooring issue? I think some of your peers have measures to do that. Or is it just something that we need to deal with, and that will just depend on the level of equity markets.

Thank you. Hi, David. Yes, so just on Ryla, sales are up in the quarter. That's what I meant to say. And if you look at, since we've launched that product, this registered index linked annuities, Ryla, since we launched that product line, I think a year and a half ago, we've been consistently growing it. And also this quarter, we grew it So more sales, that's what I meant to say.

Okay, David, let me take the other two questions. On the U.S. OCG, no, you're right. That's consistent with what I said, that several of our business units were running ahead of the or were trending well versus the original 2023 targets of which the U.S. is one. Indeed, if you take the normalized OCG for the first quarter and annualize that, you're at a good level compared to the 800 million target we gave in 2023. There's multiple reasons for that. The business is growing well. We've been able to reinvest at good rates from an interest rate perspective, and we've obviously had equity markets trending up over time, offset by some of the assumption changes we made last year. But indeed, we are trending pretty well versus the original target on the U.S.

Sorry, it's also significantly better than the underlying of the last few quarters. You were running around 205, 210 max last year. during 2024 on an underlying view in the US. You're now closer to 240, 250. Is that mostly the interest rate effect?

So we have a range of 200 to 240 million dollars. We were 224 in one Q for the underlying basis. I think in four Q last year we were 213. So we are trending again as markets help us and we have some commercial momentum. So I think we're still within the range, David, to be honest. On the other question was VA flooring. Okay. We haven't taken any actions on that in the first quarter. So what I indicated at the year end was that we had this flooring was hitting us, and we had these sensitivities which, to simplify, whichever market direction tended to be a negative for us. Given our RBC ratio, we felt comfortable with that because we were very healthy compared to our operating target of around 400%, and that remains the case today. Markets moved in the first quarter, so the flooring position did change, and you do see that in our sensitivities, particularly in the plus and minus 10%, which has now become more normal. We haven't taken any action. It's something we'll continue to explore. And if we feel we need to take action and we can do that in a way which doesn't cost very much, that's certainly something we'll look at.

Thank you. Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Michael Hutner from Bamberg. Please go ahead.

Thank you. One question is on the operating capital generation for 2025, and the other one is on the cost of the hedging. On the guidance, I work out 1220 or something would be 320 times 3 plus Q1. But there is seasonality in multanity, which I think you put in the slides. So then we'd be getting closer to 1250, 1260. Is your caution here that you're You don't quite know why U.S. mortality was worse in Q1, and this could be a feature going forward, or is it just normal conservatism? And the second is the RBC hedging costs. Clearly, it's not in operating capital generation, so I'm just asking where would these costs... You mentioned the single-digit impact in RBC to come in Q2 from the extra hedging costs in April. Where would these costs come through? Thank you.

Hi, Michael. So the latter one is easy. That's considered markets for us because it's driven by market movements. And so we put that in a non-OCG. And you'll see it just in the movement of the RBC. So when we start in RBC plus OCG plus market impacts.

But may I just interrupt? It's your decision. I understood from speaking to your colleagues earlier that it was your decision to add to hedging. That is not a market impact if you buy more hedging, is it?

No, I don't think that's what happened. We have exposures we hedge, which we basically immunize. Most market exposures on our variable annuity book, for example, we immunize. We don't tend to hedge out. And then we have a fixed implied vol assumption in the pricing of our guarantees. And so the most simple way to think about this is that when actual volatility is higher than we have priced in our valuation, we have a drag, and we don't hedge that out. We can day-to-day tactically move our hedge positions, but as a matter of principle, we don't hedge that out. And that's the drag you saw in April, where I think intraday volatility was quite extreme. So there's no change in our hedging approach. in the quarter. And your second question was OCG. You're saying, are we being conservative? Well, the guidance is for around $1.2 billion. So around $1.2 billion. I think the numbers you're quoting are around $1.2 billion. So I'd say it's pretty consistent with our guidance. There's always quarterly volatility by nature. but the guidance for around 1.2 is where we are, and I think the numbers you're quoting are around 1.2.

And are you, in my question, I was kind of asking if also if you are, sorry, it's the third question really, how you see U.S. mortality given this older age variance in Q1? Have you changed your view here, or would you see it just as normal volatility?

We've not changed our view, so... Probably the best way, the way I assess it, at least, is I look at our IFRS actual to estimates, actual to expected mortality variance. As you know, we had a positive half year last year, and I think at the time on the call, I said that was two positive quarters. This quarter, we've had elevated mortality, mostly due to, as you point out, in the financial assets, higher frequency in older age lives. It's not a surprise that we get quarterly volatility. These are large numbers. So it's a lot of large numbers. So it's not a surprise to me. And I don't see any reason to change our view what we've seen since we made the assumption of taking 2Q last year.

Lovely. Thank you.

Thank you. We have no further questions. I would like to hand the call back over to Yves Cormier for closing remarks.

Thank you, Operator. This concludes today's Q&A session. Should you have any remaining questions, please get in touch with us at the Investor Relations Team. On behalf of Lardin Duncan, I would like to thank you for your attention. Thanks again, and have a good day.