Aegon Ltd. New York Registry Shares

Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us for this conference call on EGON's first half-year 2025 results. I'm Yves Cormier, Head of Investor Relations, and joining me today to take you through our progress are EGON CEO, Lars Friese, and TFO, Duncan Russell. Before we start, we would like to ask you to review our disclaimer on forward-looking statements, which you can find at the end of the presentation. And with that, I would like to give the floor to Lars.

Thank you, Eve, and good morning, everyone. I want to start today's presentation by informing you about the next steps in Agon's transformation and running through our commercial developments before Duncan will address our results in more detail. So let me begin on slide number two with the key messages. Our strategy is to grow and transform our businesses, and we made good progress in doing so during the first half of 2025. We are on track to deliver on our strategy and on all our targets. Our operating result was 845 million euros, up 19% compared with last year. This increase was mainly driven by profitable business growth and less unfavorable claims experience in the US, but also in the UK and in our international segment. Operating capital generation before holding and funding expenses amounted to 576 million euros, decreasing by 2% over the same period. New business strain increased, especially in our U.S. strategic assets, as we grew the business. Commercial momentum remains strong across our key markets, leading to higher new life sales and more net deposits. The capital position of our operating units remains strong and above their respective operating levels. Furthermore, in the U.S., we have extended the hedging of the variable annuity portfolio to cover part of the base fee exposure, which reduces our exposure to downward equity markets further. Cash capital at holding totals over 2 billion euros following the receipt of planned remittances from all our units and the completion of 150 million euro share buyback in the first half of the year. On the back of the solid performance, we have increased the interim dividend by 3 cents compared with last year, to 19 cents per common share. Furthermore, today we announced a 200 million euro increase to the current share buyback program, which began in July. In total, we will buy back 400 million euros of shares during the second half of 2025. This once again demonstrates our ongoing commitment to return excess capital to shareholders, unless we can invest it in value creating opportunities. And it is consistent with our plan to reduce our cash capital and holding to around 1 billion Euro by the end of 2026. Today, we are also announcing a review of potential relocation of our head office to the US. I will now move to slide number three to provide you with some background on this review. This is an important step in the transformation of our company. In recent years, Agon's business in the United States which accounts for approximately 70% of Agon's operations, has become Agon's primary market and central to the company's strategy and long-term growth. A relocation of Agon's legal domicile and head office to the United States is a logical step. It is expected to simplify Agon's corporate structure as it would align its legal domicile, tax residency, accounting standard, and regulatory framework with the geography where it conducts the majority of its business. Moreover, bringing the head office closer to our largest market allows much closer cooperation between the holding and its main business unit, which is an important enabler to grow successfully in the long term. As part of the review, we will evaluate the additional advantages that would come with being a US-based company. This includes the impact on all of AGON's stakeholders, and of making our listing on the New York Stock Exchange a primary listing alongside our Euronext listing. Another key component of this review is the implementation of US GAAP reporting, which is a complex process which would likely take two to three years to complete. Preparations for the implementation have begun. We aim to share the outcome of this review at our Capital Markets Day on December 10th of this year. With that, I will now move on to slide number four to discuss our recent commercial performance, starting with the Americas. We continued to deliver on Transamerica's transformation, growing our strategic assets during the reporting period. World Financial Group recorded a 14% increase in its number of licensed agents to over 90,000, thanks to successful recruiting efforts and improved retention. The productivity of the agents selling life insurance products increased mainly from higher average premiums for policy. This offset a slight reduction in the number of multi-ticket agents, while it led to an increase in Transamerica's market share in WFG's US life sales. This higher agent productivity at WFG was one of the key drivers of the 13% increase in new life sales in our individual life business. We also recorded strong growth of new life sales in the brokerage channel, driven by the successful launch of a fully digital experience of a whole life final expense product last autumn. Furthermore, we continue to see steady growth in the Ryla product, where net deposits nearly doubled compared with last year. In the savings and investment segment, we recorded solid net deposits in our retirement plan business over the reporting period. This was driven by mid-sized plans, partly supported by the onboarding of a large pooled plan. Written sales continue to be strong, which we see as a positive indicator for future growth of our book. Finally, we realized further growth in the general account stable value product and in IRAs as we work to increase profitability and diversify revenue streams in the retirement plan business. Let's move on to slide number five, for an update on the other units. At Agon UK, we continue to make progress on the strategy we presented at the teach-in in June of last year. Deposits in the workplace platform can be lumpy, and in this period we benefited from the onboarding of a larger scheme. The advisor platform business continued to be adversely impacted by ongoing consolidation and vertical integration in non-target advisor segments. In the international segment, our joint ventures in Brazil, China, as well as Spain and Portugal, all generated higher new life sales. This was partially offset by lower sales at TLB as a result of changes in the competitive landscape in Singapore. Egon Asset Management reported solid third-party net deposit during the reporting period. Net deposits in the global platforms business were mostly attributed to alternative fixed income products. Strategic partnerships net deposits were driven by a Chinese joint venture, which benefited from collaboration with the consumer finance platform. I will now hand over to Duncan to discuss our financial performance in more detail.

Thank you, Lars. Let me start with an overview on slide seven. In the first half of 2025, the operating results increased by 19% year on year, mostly reflecting an improvement at Transamerica. Operating capital generation before holding, funding, and operating expenses decreased by 2% over the same period, mainly driven by higher new business strength. Free cash flow in the first half of 2025 amounted to €442 million, and this is a significant increase compared to the €373 million generated last year. Cash capital at holding remains very healthy, standing at €2 billion per the end of June, allowing us to announce an increase of our ongoing share buyback program. On a per share basis, valuation equity, which consists of the sum of shareholders' equity and the CSM balance after tax, decreased by 5% in the period, mostly from the impact of unfavorable exchange rate movements on the group CSM, which were partly offset by a strong net result. Exchange rate movements were also the driver for the reduction of gross financial leverage, And lastly, the group solvency ratio decreased by five percentage points compared with year end 2024 to 183%, mainly from the new share buyback program and the reservation of the 2025 interim dividend. Using slide eight, I will address the development of our IFRS net results in the first half of 2025. The operating results amounted to 845 million euros, coming in at the top end of the 750 to 850 million run rate range we had indicated with the full year 2024 results. In the U.S., the operating result improved materially year on year to $685 million within our guided range of 650 to 750 million. The result benefited from growth in our strategic assets, notably the protection solutions business, with some offset in distribution where the operating margin fell in the first half of 2025 as previously flagged as we invested further in the business. We had an improved result in financial assets because of less unfavorable experience variances from onerous contracts. Claims experience was largely offset by reserve releases. Unfavorable reserve changes due to premium variances that we saw in the U.S. in the second half of 2024 continued into the first half of 2025 as we previously flagged, but to a materially lesser degree. The operating results of the UK increased, benefiting from business growth and favorable markets. In the international segment, the operating results increased mainly from a higher CSM release in TLB and Spain and Portugal. Agon Attic Management's operating results, as well as that of the holding, was broadly stable compared with the same period of last year. Moving on, non-operating items were in aggregate favorable in the period, driven by hedging results recorded in fair value items. Other charges amounted to 207 million euros, mostly because of the assumption updates in the U.S. and at TLB to address the experience we've recently seen. Finally, we booked a 50 million euro contribution from our stake in ASR. Looking forward to the second half of the year, we are increasing our guided operating results range for the U.S. by $50 million to 700 to 800 million. but we're keeping the group guidance at 750 to 850 million euros, reflecting the current exchange rates. I'm now moving on to slide nine. Based on the strong net result and a positive contribution of the assumption updates to OCI, shareholders' equity increased slightly over the period. The CSM balance decreased over the period, mostly because of unfavorable currency movements. In US dollars, the CSM of our strategic assets in the US increased thanks to profitable new business while the CSM of our financial assets decreased due to the runoff of the book, the impact of claims experience, as well as the impact of strengthening policyholder behaviour assumptions. Outside the US, the changes to the total CSM balance were limited, with the UK CSM decreasing modestly on a local currency basis and the international segment CSM increasing modestly from assumption updates. Overall, valuation equity per share decreased by 5 percentage points over the first half of 2025 to €8.47 per share, mostly due to the exchange rate development. Slide 10. Operating capital generation, or OCG, decreased by 2% compared to the first half of 2024. OCG from the US decreased by 4%, or 3% in US dollars, OCG from the strategic assets decreased as our investments in business growth drove higher new business strength. OCG from the financial assets increased, mostly from higher fees as bearable annuity account balances increased on the back of favourable markets. Furthermore, claims experienced in the period was less unfavourable than in the same period last year and included $86 million of unfavourable mortality, largely related to the universal lifeblood. Looking through the unfavorable claims experience in a period, we continue to observe a quarterly OCG run rate for the Americas of around $200 to $240 million. The OCG benefited from favorable markets as well as favorable non-recurring variances. The international segment reported lower OCG with improved underwriting experience in TLB being offset by lower OCG from China. Agon Asset Management's OCG was stable compared to the same period of last year. Looking ahead, we continue to expect OCG before holding, funding, and operating expenses of around 1.2 billion euros in 2025.

I'm now turning to slide 11.

The capital positions of our business units remain robust and above their respective operating levels. The U.S. RBC ratio decreased by 23 percentage points compared with year-end 2024 to 420%. Market movements had a 15 percentage points negative impact on this ratio. Of this, 5 percentage points was due to hedging, rebalancing, and cross-effects as a consequence of elevated market volatility in April, which we flagged with the first quarter trading update. the remaining unfavorable impact was largely driven by valuation moves in our alternative asset portfolio and lower interest rates. One-time items had a nine percentage points unfavorable impact due to restructuring costs, the annual actuarial assumption updates, and several smaller items. For the remainder, operating capital generation and period was offset by remittances to the group. Finally, in mid-August, we decided to expand the dynamic hedge program of our variable annuities to cover the equity market exposure of the fees of 25% of the base contracts. This represents an additional lever available to us to manage our risk profile going forward, reduces our economic equity market exposure on the VA block, and thus capital requirement, and further solidifies the expected runoff profile, albeit with a small negative impact on run rate OCG. In the UK, the solvency ratio of Scottish Expo will decrease by one percentage point to 185% as operating capital generation in the period was offset by remittances and investments in the business. Slide 12. Cash capital holding remains extremely healthy, standing at just over 2 billion euros. Free cash flow amounted to 442 million euros in the period and included remittances from all our units as well as capital returns from our stake in ASR. We returned 110 million euros of capital to shareholders through share buybacks, and in addition, we purchased 40 million euros worth of shares, which will be used for share-based compensation plans. Today, we have announced a 200 million euro increase of the currently ongoing share buyback programme, bringing it to a total of 400 million euros for the second half of the year. Our objective remains to reach the midpoint of the operating range for cash capital at holding, around 1 billion euros, by the end of 2026. Let me conclude our presentation with the final slide on page 13. Taking into account our performance in the first half of 2025 and the outlook for our businesses, we are on track to achieve all of our financial targets for 2025. We look forward to meeting you at the Capital Markets Day on December 10th in London. At the event, we will share the conclusion of the review regarding a potential relocation of Aegon's head office to the United States. And with that, I would now like to open the call for questions Please limit yourself to two questions per person. Operator, please open the Q&A session.

Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, you'll need to slowly press star one and then one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. Please be aware that we will take and answer one question at a time before moving to the next question. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. This will only take a few moments. Thank you. We will now go to the first question. And your first question today comes from the line of David Barmer, Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Good morning. Thanks for taking my questions. To start with, can you talk about what drove the decision to cover 25% of the variable annuity base fee, please? Did you see that as the optimal balance between cost and protection, or is it a a first step and you'd like to do more over time. And I'll ask my second straightaway because it's linked to that. That combined with the measures taken on the universal life block will weigh on OCG going forward, but you've reiterated the guidance. We've been in a similar situation in the past two years with mortality first and then the drag in China both being offset by other measures. I guess I'm trying to understand how reliant OCG is to the current level of equities and to what extent stronger than expected business growth is making you comfortable with the OCG level that you're getting for. If you can give a bit of color on that, please.

Thank you.

Thanks, David. Thanks. Yeah. Okay. So the VA base B hedging, David, we executed upon that in recent days. Actually, last week we executed upon it. And that is an additional tool we brought into our toolkit to manage and stabilize the capital generation and the earnings profile of our next variable, which is in our office as you know. We did that for a number of reasons. partly to stabilize capital, partly to bring an additional toolkit, partly because equity markets are at a good level. So it's just part of our normal ongoing management, unilateral actions related to financial assets. The 25%, again, is probably a bit of prudence on our side. We wanted to actually keep up on that, monitor how it works, make sure we understand it fully. And then in the future, once we fully have observed that, we could increase it or decrease it depending on on how we view things. One thing we do have to balance and manage when we do these things is the impact of soaring on our capital position. So that is one thing which we'll continue to monitor. But the net-net has reduced our underlying economic equity exposure on that VE book, which I think is a good thing. In terms of OCG, actually it's a fairly clean quarter. We've reiterated our guidance. If I take the actual reported OCG for the half year, add in our quarterly run rates, then we're still getting into our guided range of around 1.2 billion per year. Your comments on our equity sensitivity, actually, we're not particularly equity sensitive. You can see the sensitivities in our balance sheet, which are not particularly large. And I think we've guided that our OCG is sensitive by plus or minus 10% to around 40 million USD.

Thank you.

Your next question comes from the line of Michael Hutner from Barenberg. Please go ahead.

Hi there. I wanted to say it almost sounds like goodbye, the decision to – and I take it as a decision. If you've already started doing US GAAP, it sounds to me like a decision – So first question, on the U.S. gap, as an indication, where will it land, roughly, relative to the operating profit or the OCG we've got already? And the other two, I know that it's more than two questions. The pooled plan, how big it is? Because I guess it's around $2 billion, but I don't know. And then also figures on the new business chain. Thanks. Owen, if I may? The economic exposure, the VA benefit, how much does it reduce the capital required?

Okay, Michael, that's a number of questions. Let me confirm. It's $1.9 billion, the pool plan, that you're referring to as part of the retirement growth of net deposits in this half year. For the remainder, I hand over to you, Duncan.

Hi, Michael. On US GAAP, no, it's too early to tell. And I don't want to give any sort of guidance on that. It would be misleading at this stage, to be honest. Then on the capital requirement from the VAH, there's a small capital benefit. We are reducing the equity exposure, which will reduce the required capital by a small amount in the third quarter.

And the new business trend? No business drain.

I'm not entirely sure what your question was on new business drain, but if I look in the quarter, our new business drain was more or less as we anticipated. It was roughly 6 million higher than our guided runway in Agri-Dev. OK, thank you.

Thank you. We will now take the next question. And the next question comes from a line of Farooq Hanif from JP Morgan. Please go ahead.

Hi, everybody. Just want to delve a little bit into your thinking on the re-domiciliation, because you've told us, obviously, that you've considered this in the past, or it's been on the table, particularly when you moved your regulatory domicile to Bermuda. So, I mean, I get the point about it makes sense from the point of view of most of your business is obviously from the US. I just want to understand what's changed, given that I believe that you've probably looked at this before. The things that come to my mind are regulators. Does it also make it easier for you to execute on some of your plans in the US? Would that be a factor? For example, in terms of being able to use US GAAP and just being located there. I wonder if you've been willing to just talk a little bit more about this. I mean, I realize you're reviewing it all, but just some of the other factors that are important. Sorry, that was a very long question. Second question, how clean is your 845 operating profit? I mean, you did quickly run through some points, but how clean do you think it is?

Yeah, so Farouk, I will answer your first question and take you through the rationale and everything that you asked for. But let's start to clear the question to Duncan on the financials, the second one.

Yeah, Farouk, it's pretty clean. So we are happy with the first half, IFRS operating profit. We reported 845, as you mentioned, and there were still some negative variances. If we add back all those negative variances, which is roughly 92 million for the group, We get to an adjusted number of around 937, which is strong. Having said that, as we flagged for the full year, we do have a recurring VA interest accretion, which we just deducted, say, 35 million. So underlying around 900 million in the first half. Since then, FX has weakened. And hence, we're coming back into around the 850 level, which is in the guided range. So a pretty good quarter, a pretty good half year for Ute, to be honest.

So, Varouk, on the rationale and everything related to what you asked on the potential move to the U.S., a couple of things here. So, the AGON transformation, as we all know, is pretty profound, and we've done quite a number of steps over the last years to be where we are today. And we are now ready for this next step in the transformation. At the time that we were announcing the combination of our Dutch business with ASR and then the subsequent closing of that in July, at the beginning of July of 2023, we should all go back to that moment because it was a very important moment. At that point in time, we were in the middle of implementing IFRS 17, had just implemented IFRS 17, and we were in the middle of disclosing it for the first times. That's number one. So at that point in time, there was, you know, not a US GAAP available at all. That's number one. Number two, we were closing the transaction with ASR, which is a very comprehensive transaction. We needed to make sure that we embedded the groups, the group after that appropriately operationally. We also moved as DMV could no longer be, had no legal basis any longer to maintain to be our group regulator. moved our legal seat to Bermuda, and then subsequently the BMA became our regulator, and we wanted to embed everything appropriately. And let's also not forget that in that same period, because we closed the transaction the 4th of July, but in June, that's a couple of weeks earlier, two weeks earlier, we had a capital markets day in London where Transamerica was launching its strategy and its plan And now we have two years behind us and we can see how it's progressing. And at that time we were at the start of that execution. And we are now two years further ahead and we can now see that we have a conviction that our US team is executing very well. And you can see that the growth, et cetera, is really coming through. And now the US business is 70% of the overall footprint of the group. So the reality is that We're now ready for this next phase of the transformation. We believe it is logical that if the U.S. is 70% of your business, located in one of the thriving largest market in the world, it is clearly the locomotive, if you will, that is able to carry and to be the front part of the train that is Agon Group. And as we aim to grow the U.S. business in the future, we want to be closer to it. and moving our holding company to our largest market is a logical thing to do so we're leaning in that's what you're to a reality of our business and at this point in time we are ready to do so we have done a lot of work but we aim to we need to discuss in a public domain with a number of stakeholders all the implications one of the most important stakeholder groups being our own employees the works councils, all the implications for them, and then we will, and also a number of other stakeholders, and then we will conclude the review before the Capital Markets Day and then share the results of that review with you.

So just, I'm really sorry to jump in and I'm taking time, but has there been any regulatory pressure to do this?

No. Thank you. Thank you.

Your next question comes from the line of Ian Pearce from Exambi and PeopleWeaver.

Please go ahead. Hi. Morning, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions. They're all around the re-domiciliation. First, if you could just touch on what you think the main challenges will be of potentially re-domiciling, obviously flag US GAAP, but just sort of what you think the main challenges of the move would be. And Have you had any conversations with your main shareholder about this move? I mean, clearly their articles of association might cause some problems for them with a re-domiciliation potentially. And then the second one is just around the asset allocation opportunities of re-domiciling and moving to a US regulated entity. Do you see one of the main benefits, and is the plan to really re-risk the asset portfolio in the U.S. and increase private asset allocations as part of this redomiciliation? Thank you.

Thank you very much, Ian. I'll take the first couple of questions, and on your last question, I'll hand it over to Duncan. So, if you look at the key challenges. So, first of all, let's clear the Vereniging A-Fonds or the Association, AGON. We cannot speak for them, obviously. They are informed, and we cannot speak for them. But they are informed, and we will continue to engage with them, obviously, in the coming period. When it comes to the main challenges, well, we expect this move to head office processes in the U.S. We need to build down head office processes here, and we need to make sure that we do that well. U.S. GAAP is a key gating item. We started with it, but the project has started. But implementing a new accounting standard is going to take some time. And that is a key thing to make sure we do right. And, of course, in the meantime, we need to make sure that this transition process is appropriately changed, managed. And those, I would say, are the key things to mention here. When it comes to the asset allocation opportunity potential, Duncan?

I see no impact on the redomitization on our asset allocation choices or opportunities. We manage our entities on a local capital basis, so we're already operating under the U.S. statutory regime for Transamerica, and we have asset allocation appropriate to our liabilities in that market, and I see no impact from that on the redomitization.

Thank you.

Thank you. We will now go to the next question. And the next question comes from the line of Nazif Ahmed, UBS. Please go ahead.

Morning. Thanks for taking my questions. So first one on just M&A. You've still got the financial assets. There's been a big variable annuity deal where I think the counterparty managed to get over the line on the counterparty risk. And that was one of the blockers for you guys, I think. So any thoughts on kind of third-party actions on the 3.3 billion locked in? And then on the flip side, anything that you would potentially buy and how does the U.S. redomiciliation help with M&A on the acquisition side? Second one is on OCG versus IFRS in the U.S., So Duncan, you've raised the guide on the IFRS by 50 million, but I think the OCG guide stays the same. What's the difference? Why haven't you raised the OCG guide in the US? Thank you.

Yeah, so I'll take the M&A side and then you can do financial assets, Duncan, and the piece about the OCG. So on acquisitions, same as we mentioned before, it's very much linked to our strategy. We want to grow like any company wants to grow. So if we see an opportunity that makes sense and that strengthens our business and it makes sense both for financial criteria and non-financial criteria, then we will certainly look at it. We will be disciplined. We're not going to do any M&A unless we believe that we can integrate it and that we will create value for our stockholders. Now, the U.S. is a large market, is our largest market. So, being there physically with your head office, of course, and being closer to that market on a daily basis, obviously, would be positioning yourself more beneficial for that. But our M&A approach has not changed what we mentioned before.

Duncan? Two separate questions. On a financial aspect, you know, we continue to look at our um our unilateral bilateral and the party options on those books of businesses um we've been doing that for years and um should the transaction present itself which we find attractive for our shareholders if it makes sense we'll do it if not we won't and we'll focus on um you know actual and bilateral actions there's no real change there we just continue to look at all our options as we have been doing for the last couple of years um On the guidance, well, two things. Partly the guidance reflects what we actually see in our actuals on a clean basis in the half year. So we saw, we've seen that the U.S. operating profit performed well in the first half under IFRS, and that reflects, therefore, in the RAISE guidance, which means we expect that run rate to continue. And on OCG, we performed more in line with our previous guidance, and hence that's driven the unchanged outlook there. Bear in mind, there are quite material differences in the way, for example, growth is treated under two regimes. So under the US regulatory regime, as you grow, you inflate your business strain, which is depressing in the near term. Under IFRS, you create a CSM, which comes through in a relatively quickly.

So that is also an experiment, just a different thing. Perfect, thank you. Thank you.

Your next question comes from the line of Farquhar Murray from Autonomous. Please go ahead.

Morning, all. A couple of questions from my side, just mainly on the domiciling discussion. Obviously, it's been debated for years and does now seem a bit of a foregone conclusion, but I just wondered if you have a sense, therefore, on the actual project costs of the U.S. GAAP implementation. And then, obviously, getting close to the U.S. business makes a lot of sense, but I just wondered where that leaves your approach on the rest of the global footprint. Thanks.

So, first of all, the costs are going to be part of the review. And we'll update you on the, let's say, on the outcome of the review of the capital markets day. When it comes to the total footprint, well, as you know, we've set ourselves a perimeter in 2020 when I joined the company. We're now in that perimeter and we have a strategy to improve and to create advantageous businesses in that perimeter.

And that is unchanged. Thank you.

Your next question comes from the line of Benoit Petrac from Kepler Shiver. Please go ahead.

Yes, good morning. So, yeah, the first one is actually on your ISR stack. What is your initial thoughts around Your stack also going forward, looking at the potential relocation in the U.S., it sounds like it becomes less core than before. And then maybe ahead of the potential relocation, do you plan to initiate deleveraging actions at the holding level? So any plans to maybe refocus more on deleveraging next year? Thank you.

Duncan, can you take both of those questions?

Yeah, nothing changes on either of those fronts. So again, today we announced a review. We'll conclude on that review with the capital market today. And if we decide to proceed, it'll take two to three years. The leverage, no need to change our leverage given our footprint is what it is today. And on ASR, we've been consistent that we're a long-term patient holder. And there are two potential reasons we would dispose of that. Either we have an alternative use for that, or we feel that the price is reflecting intrinsic value. No change on either based on the announcement today. Thank you.

Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Jason Calambasas from ING. Please go ahead.

Yes. Hi. Good morning. Jason, it looks like we've lost your connection. Can you hear us?

My suggestion, operator, is you move to the next question, and then if Jason comes back, we'll take his question, obviously.

Thank you, sir. I will now go to the next question. And your next question is a follow-up from Michael Hutner from Barenburg. Please go ahead.

Hello. On U.S. mortality, slide 17, can you talk a little bit about the unfavorable claims experience? I remember a figure, I think, of 66 million in Q1. So normally you would have 33 because of normal seasonality, and there was 33 million on top. I just want to get a feel for which way it's going versus your assumptions. And the second question is, and I'm really sorry, Lada, I didn't hear the answer on pooled. I did the numbers. So on the savings and investment Q2 2025, you had a $2 billion net inflow. It was zero in Q2 2024. And you mentioned pool plan. I'm really sorry. I didn't hear the number on that. Thank you.

$1.9 billion. Thank you. The pool plan, you guessed it was $2 billion. You're pretty close. It was $1.9 billion. Thank you. For your other questions, I'll hand you over.

Hey, Michael. We had an overall mortality in the US in the second quarter was slightly positive. I would say more or less in line with our best estimate expectations, slightly positive. So since the mortality update we did last year, we had positive 3p, 4p, negative 1p, positive 2p this year. And we remain comfortable with our overall mortality assumptions. Brilliant.

That's very helpful. Thank you.

Thank you. We have no further questions at this time. I would now like to hand the call back over to Yves Cormier for closing remarks.

Thank you very much, Sharon. Before I hand it over to Yves, we will make sure we reach out to Jason Calabrese for his questions.

All right. Well, thank you, operator. So this concludes today's Q&A session. Should you have any remaining questions, please get in touch with us at the Investor Relations team. And on behalf of Lardin Duncan, I would like to thank you for your attention. Thanks again and have a good day.