Amcor plc

Hello and welcome to the AMCOR fiscal year 24 results conference call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer session. And if you would like to ask a question during this time, please press star one on your telephone keypad. I would now like to turn the conference over to Tracy Whitehead, head of investor relations. Please go ahead.

Thank you, operator, and thank you, everyone, for joining AMCOR's fiscal 2024 fourth quarter and full year earnings call. Joining today is Peter Konechny, interim chief executive officer, and Michael Casamento, chief financial officer. Before I hand over, let me note a few items. On our website, amcor.com, under the investor section, you'll find today's press release and presentation, which we'll discuss on this call. Please be aware that we will also discuss non-GAAP financial measures and related reconciliations can be found in that press release and the presentation. Remarks will also include forward-looking statements that are based on management's current views and assumptions. The second slide in today's presentation lists several factors that could cause future results to differ from current estimates. Reference can be made to AMCOR's SEC filings, including our statements on Forms 10-K and 10-Q for further details. Please note that during the question and answer session, we request that you limit yourself to a single question and then rejoin the queue if you have any additional follow-up. With that, over to you, PK.

Thank you, Tracey, and thank you to all who have joined us for today's call. I want to open the call with a big thank you to our AMCOR colleagues around the world, all of whom demonstrated tremendous focus in fiscal 24. Their hard work and dedication enabled us to improve our financial performance through the year and to finish the year strong. And I want to publicly recognize their efforts. In terms of Q4, we start as always with safety on slide three. Safety is our number one priority, and our efforts to provide a safe and healthy work environment for our teams resulted in another year of improved performance, which reinforces our industry leadership when it comes to safety. 73% of our sites have remained injury-free for 12 months or longer, and overall, UMGOR experienced a 12% reduction in injuries compared to fiscal 23. Our commitment to our people and to their safety remains our most important value, and we continue to aspire to achieve our ultimate goal of zero injuries. Turning to slide four, UMGOR's near-term priorities remain consistent with those I shared on our Q3 earnings call, and I'm happy to report we're successfully delivering against these priorities. As I just mentioned, providing a safe and healthy work environment for our global workforce will always be number one. Second is to stay close to our key stakeholders, including employees and customers, which helped us finish the fiscal 24 years strongly. Our teams continue to execute well in the fourth quarter, maintaining cost discipline as volume trends continue to improve sequentially with a return to volume growth in Q4. As a result, we delivered another quarter of solid margin expansion and earnings per share growth above the expectations we set out in April. Third is to build on the progress we have worked hard to deliver across the business and ensure we maintain momentum in fiscal 25. We expect our earnings and volume performance to continue to improve. this is reflected in our fiscal 25 guidance and fourth i and our senior leaders continue to focus on providing stability for the business and helping our teams deliver for all our stakeholders we're executing well and winning with our customers as we continue to reinforce that encore strategy agenda and priorities have not changed moving to our key messages for today on slide five first AMCO reported strong financial results for the fourth quarter, driven by solid performance in the underlying business and a return to volume growth, resulting in both segments delivering adjusted EBIT growth on a comparable basis. Second, volumes, EPS growth, and free cash flow were ahead of expectations we set out in April. Overall volumes increased 1% in the quarter compared to last year, which exceeded the low single-digit decline we were anticipating. Earnings per share also outperformed expectations, up 9%, which was above our guidance for mid-single-digit growth. Third, we expect to build further momentum and deliver annual EPS growth through continued strong performance from the underlying business. At the midpoint of our fiscal 25 EPS guidance range of growth of 3% to 8%, we expect total annual value generated to once again be consistent with the 10% to 15% outlined in our shareholder value creation model. assuming a dividend yield aligned with historical average. It is important to point out that we expect the underlying business to continue to deliver strong growth in line with the high single digit earnings growth experienced in Q4, considering our guidance includes an EPS headwind of approximately four percentage points related to normalization of incentives. Michael will step through the components embedded in our guidance range in more detail shortly. Our final key message is that our capital allocation priorities and strategies for long-term growth have not changed. We continue to invest in organic growth across the business, including in higher value priority categories in emerging markets. Strategic M&A also remains an important source of incremental growth and value creation. We believe the strength of our market positions, our opportunities to invest for growth, our execution capabilities, and our commitment to a compelling and growing dividend and to maintaining an investment grade credit rating sums up to a convincing investment case framework. Moving to slide six for a summary of our financial results. We finished fiscal 24 on a strong note. As customer demand continued to improve off second quarter lows, and our teams did an excellent job leveraging our differentiated value proposition to support our customers and drive volumes higher. At the same time, our unwavering focus on proactive cost management through the year resulted in four consecutive quarters of strong margin expansion. Overall volumes returned to growth earlier than we anticipated and were up 1% in Q4, our second consecutive quarter of strong sequential volume improvement. As expected, volumes across healthcare categories and in the North America beverage business remained soft through the fourth quarter. Combined, these two businesses, which represent approximately 25% of sales in Q4, unfavorably impacted overall volumes by approximately 2%. Across the balance of the business, overall volumes were approximately 3% higher than the June quarter last year. This reflects broad-based improvements in customer demand across many end markets and what we believe is the end of destocking in all categories other than healthcare. Price mix had an unfavorable impact on sales of approximately 3%, primarily driven by continued destocking in high-margin healthcare categories. Cost reduction and productivity initiatives remained a focus, and we delivered another quarter of significant cost savings totaling more than $110 million, including an additional $20 million of benefits from structural cost initiatives in Q4. This builds on the outstanding efforts by all our teams across the businesses through the first three quarters, bringing the total cost savings for the year to more than $40 million, including structural savings of $35 million. The result of improving volume trends and our focus on cost and productivity actions was another quarter of strong, urgent leverage as momentum in UMCRA's underlying business continued. Fourth quarter adjusted earnings per share of 21.1 cents grew by 9% on a comparable constant currency basis, above our April guidance for mid-single-digit growth, and adjusted EBIT was up 4% compared with last year. Overall, for fiscal 24, we delivered adjusted EPS toward the top end of our guidance range we provided last August, and our ongoing focus on cash conversion was rewarded with adjusted free cash flow of $952 million, up more than $100 million in last year, and just above the top end of our guidance range. We also continue to return significant cash to shareholders through compelling and growing dividend, in addition to share repurchase, which combined totaled approximately $750 million for fiscal 24. Turn it over to Michael now to provide some further color on the financials and our outlook. Michael. Thanks, PK, and hello, everyone.

Beginning with the flexible segment on slide seven and focusing on our fiscal Q4 performance, Q4 volumes increased by 3%. which represented a significant sequential improvement of 5 percentage points compared with the March quarter. Net sales, however, were down 1% on a comparable constant currency basis. This volume growth was offset by unfavorable price mix of approximately 4%, primarily related to lower healthcare sales, which we anticipated. Sea stocking in healthcare categories continued in North America and Europe, And this resulted in a headwind of approximately 2% on overall segment volumes. Across the balance of our Flexibles portfolio, Amcor experienced very solid growth with volumes increasing by approximately 5% in the quarter. The improved customer demand we saw in the third quarter continued as customers increased their focus on growing volumes and returned to more normalized order patterns now that destocking has ended. This led to broad-based growth across most geographies, with volumes increasing in several categories, including meat, cheese, home and personal care, and unconverted film and foil. Across North America and Europe, fourth quarter demand improved across many end markets, resulting in a return to overall volume growth in the low to mid single digit range in both regions, despite continued softness in healthcare. In North America, volumes were higher in meat, cheese, and snacks categories, And in Europe, the business delivered particularly strong volume growth in meat, home and personal care, and unconverted film and foil. Emerging market volumes were up mid-single digits in Q4. Most countries experienced solid growth, with volumes in China increasing for the fourth consecutive quarter, and strength continuing in India, Thailand, Brazil, and Mexico, to name a few. Adjusted EBIT for the quarter of $403 million, was 5% higher than last year on a comparable constant currency basis. Higher volumes combined with strong cost performance through the quarter, including from restructuring initiatives, led to another quarter of margin expansion with EBIT margins up 110 basis points to 15%. Turning to rigid packaging on slide 8, volumes and earnings trajectory for rigids continued to improve in the fourth quarter with the business delivering consecutive quarters of earnings growth in the second half. As anticipated, overall volume performance for the business increased sequentially, as the 5% volume decline in Q4 was three percentage points better than the March quarter. As expected, the Q4 decline was driven by lower volumes in the North America beverage business. Across the balance of the rigid packaging portfolio, volumes were in line with the fourth quarter last year, and favorable price mix benefits of approximately 3% resulted in a 2% decline in net sales on a comparable constant currency basis. In North America, beverage volumes were down 8%, reflecting lower consumer demand in ANCOR's key-in markets and unfavorable customer mix. Volumes improved by 3 percentage points on a sequential basis as destocking ended, and warmer weather resulted in modest improvement in consumer consumption versus the March quarter. In Latin America, volumes increased in the low single-digit range compared with last year, driven by continued growth in Brazil and in Colombia. And from an earnings perspective, the business delivered another quarter of earnings growth and margin expansion through an ongoing focus on cost reduction and productivity measures and the realization of benefits from restructuring initiatives. Adjusted EBIT increased by 2% in Q4, with the EBIT margin increasing by 70 basis points to 8.8%. Moving to cash on the balance sheet on slide nine, adjusted free cash flow for fiscal 24 was just above the top end of our guidance range at $952 million, up more than $100 million or 12% compared with last year. Cash generation was strong through the fourth quarter and we delivered good cash conversion by remaining laser focused on improving working capital performance with inventories reducing for the sixth consecutive quarter. The timing of spend on CapEx projects was also a modest tailwind in the year, which we expect to unwind in fiscal 25. Leverage at 3.1 times was down 0.3 of a turn from the March quarter and was in line with our expectations for year end. This brings me to the outlook on slide 10. For fiscal 25, we expect to continue building on the volume and earnings momentum we achieved through the second half of fiscal 24. Adjusted earnings are expected to be in the range of 72 to 76 cents per share on a reported basis, representing comparable constant currency growth of 3 to 8%. As PK noted earlier, we expect the growth in the underlying business will remain strong in fiscal 25. However, it's important to note that our guidance includes an EPS headwind of approximately 4% related to more normalized levels of incentive compensation based on our expectations for improved annual financial results. Excluding this incentive normalization, our guidance range implies expected growth from the underlying business in the high single to low double-digit range. Our guidance range assumes an expected volume increase in the low to mid single digit range for the year, with trading performance in July aligned with this expectation. Interest expense is expected to be between $290 and $305 million, and the effective tax rate is estimated to be in the range of 19 to 20%. When combining interest and tax in absolute terms, the expectation is for a modest headwind to earnings when compared with fiscal 24. terms of phasing we anticipate this will be broadly aligned with historical average of approximately 45 percent of earnings being delivered in the first half of the year and 55 percent in the second half with the fourth quarter typically the strongest of the year and finally we expect to continue to generate strong adjusted free cash flow in the range of 900 million to 1 billion even as we fund an increase in capital expenditure of approximately 40 to 60 million dollars from a lower base in 24 which i mentioned earlier and we expect to to exit the year with leverage back within our two and a half to three times management range. We're pleased with the finish to fiscal 24 and look forward to delivering strong financial results in 25 and beyond. So with that, I'll hand it back to you, PK.

Thank you, Michael. In closing on slide 11, we finished 24 on a strong note and we're encouraged by the broad-based improvement in volumes we're seeing across most geographies and end markets. Earnings growth in both segments in the second half of fiscal 24 combined with a return to volume growth in the fourth quarter and the trends experienced in the first several weeks of fiscal 25 give us confidence that momentum will continue to build in the underlying business. We expect overall volumes to continue to grow in fiscal 25 and we will maintain a sharp focus on cost control and productivity initiatives to drive solid earnings growth. And importantly, assuming a dividend yield aligned with historical average at the midpoint of our EPS guidance range, we are well positioned to deliver annual value generated in fiscal 25 to be in line with the 10% to 15% outlined in our shareholder value creation model. We'll continue to capitalize on opportunities to grow the business by staying close to our customers, providing the support and the differentiated, more sustainable packaging solutions they need, to protect, preserve, and promote their products as they drive their own volume growth. We continue to invest in organic growth, including in higher value priority categories and emerging markets. Strategic M&A is an important source for incremental growth and value creation, and we're committed to a compelling dividend which grows annually. We're confident in our execution capabilities and in the opportunities we have to continue delivering profitable growth from the underlying business, and to create strong free cash flow in fiscal 25 and beyond. Operator, we're now ready to turn the line over to questions.

Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, simply press star 1 again. Please ensure that your phone is not on mute when called upon. In the interest of time, we would like to remind participants to limit their question to one and to rejoin the queue for any follow-ups. Your first question comes from the line of Gansham Panjabi with Baird. Your line is open.

Thank you. Hello, everybody. Can you just give us a sense as to what you're seeing as it relates to true market conditions? I mean, obviously, you're cycling over easier comparisons from a year ago, you know, just given inventory, destocking, et cetera. But what is your characterization of the actual end market in context of what we read about with consumer affordability issues and so on? And I guess I'm asking because, you know, last year your volumes were down 5% in fiscal year 24 and your guidance is, I think it was low to mid single digit volumes. So just trying to get a sense as to what you're actually seeing in the market.

Yeah, thanks, Gantram. Let me take that question here and then see if Michael wants to build if needed or required. Look, first of all, we've been very pleased with the performance of the volumes with the sequential improvement from Q3 to Q4, which was even better than what we expected. And we went back to volume growth, which was, again, better than the low single-digit decline that we had indicated after Q3. And we've been pleased with that being pretty much broadband across the different regions and categories. So it was a broad momentum that was building here and we're very pleased to see that too. Then if I double click on where the 1% comes from, I try to depict that into the different drivers. The first thing that I would say is it's not necessarily consumer demand. Consumer demand continues to be muted. We would consider that to be low single digit down still. And also when we go into 25 with our expectations, we wouldn't assume that that necessarily improves. What we're seeing is that our customers are starting to do better. Our customers, when we talked about this also in the last earnings call, where we pointed out that our customers are looking for a better balance between volumes and price. And you also see that when you go through some of the announcements that have come out lately. So that's better. And we're demonstrating an ability to win with those customers. And that is through what we have to offer. And I would just call that on a headline, the value proposition that we can bring to the customer. So that's encouraging. And that's really the driver of the improvement to a large extent. Of course, we are seeing some benefits from cycling out of the stocking that we had last year. In the fourth quarter, to give you a feel, that would have been not really much, maybe a couple of percentage points. But also remember that we're still seeing destocking the healthcare business. That pretty much goes against us. And those would be the major drivers. And they're very consistent with sort of what we're seeing when we look to 2025. I hope that sort of answers the question.

Your next question comes from the line of Keith Chell of MST Financial Services. Your line is open.

Hi there, Peter and Michael. Just want to maybe actually reflect back on that question. So, you know, what you're saying is that the consumer is still weak um at the moment so the growth is not consumer demand still low single digit down uh your volumes and fy25 it feels like part of that is the unwanted destocking which is a couple of percent that you're expecting kind of loaded mid-single digits so you know there is maybe some slight improvement in your underlying volume so i'm just trying to work out what the difference is between those two factors like who who do you think is losing are you taking share I'm just trying to square up the numbers from the first question. Thank you.

Yeah, Keith, so first of all, I would say it's not really a share story here. It comes down to, again, the things that I've mentioned before. The consumer demand, we would hope to improve going forward, but we're careful in terms of our expectations for the next year. we're not banking much on that to happen. If it comes, that would be great, and that would be providing further tailwinds for us. And again, what you're seeing is on a comparative basis to prior periods, you would see the stocking sort of cycling off. That gets us a better volume performance in terms of what we report. And a little more color on that, You know, in the first half of 25, we would be comping a pretty broad range destocking versus prior period. However, we said that pretty much came to an end after the first half last year. So that won't be there in the second half anymore. And in the first half, we will still continue to see destocking in the healthcare category. which is pretty much a quarter longer than what we guided towards in Q3, in the earnings call after Q3. But that will abate in the back half of the year. And then we continue to believe that our customers, and to a large extent, we have good exposure to big global customers. But they will continue to drive their volume performance, which is very consistent with what you're hearing. And we're partnering up with them. We have built a good relationship with them over the past. We always have been very close to the big customers. And as their volumes are coming back, we take advantage of that. So you pull all that together, that sort of results into the volume guidance of low single digit to mid single digit next year.

Your next question comes from the line of Adam Samuelson with Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.

Yes, thank you. Good evening, everyone. I guess maybe continuing along that line of discussion, Maybe I'd like to dig in a little more on the healthcare and market, which is still your most challenged. And if I was doing the algebra right, it seems like you're implying that was down near high single digit volumes in the fiscal fourth quarter. Sounds like the stocking continuing for at least one more quarter. You talked about the confidence that you have of that ending by the end of this calendar year, and maybe a little bit more clarity on what the assumptions are for the healthcare business for volumes in in fiscal 25, because obviously that has important implications on VIX as we move through the year. Thank you.

Yeah, good question, Adam. I mean, first of all, I'd say that healthcare is, you know, as far as I'm concerned, a real gem in our portfolio. Let's start right there. And if we're challenged with the healthcare category, it would really just be on the back of the normalization that the category is seeing after a major dislocation that the category has gone through in the more recent past. And that dislocation is now coming to an end with the category essentially rightsizing their inventories. That's what we're seeing. So, you know, we don't have any concerns overall in the stability and the attractiveness of this category to start right there. But what we're going through until the end of the calendar on the back of what we know right now is really just continue to stocking. I can confirm that the high-level estimates that you're doing on volumes is correct in terms of high single digits being down in the more recent past. I think that the destocking that we've seen in Q4 is probably slightly better than what we've seen in Q3. And again, on the back of everything that we know, the destocking will come to an end by the end of the calendar. And that would be based on various conversations that we have with our customers and what they're confirming currently is happening in their business. Now, in the back half then, you know, when the stocking has to come in, has come to an end, we're expecting a better volume performance with the business as you would imagine. And we would definitely have no concerns to believe that healthcare can return to growth rates that, you know, are in line with the historical averages of sort of mid-single digits growth. The final point that I'd like to make maybe on healthcare is as I'm thinking through it how to best answer your question. You know, the stocking that we're seeing in healthcare is actually, when you look at the numbers, quite similar to some other categories that we've seen beforehand. It's just that healthcare started later. pretty much in Q2 last year, and, you know, has started mostly with medical, on the medical side, which we've cycled through right now. And then with the phase delay, we've seen some impacts on the pharma side, which we're now crunching through, and that will come to an end by the end of the calendar, as I said before.

And maybe, Adam, just to pick up on the mix point, yes, you're quite right. Obviously, the mix was unfavorable in Q4, and With the destocking continuing, you know, if we think about our guidance assumptions for the FY25, we would expect, you know, that negative mix to continue in the first half, but then as we head into the second half, it will obviously improve as we're through the destocking. So, you know, on a full year basis, we'd probably expect the mix to be more neutral.

Your next question comes from the line of Daniel Kang with CLSA. Your line is open.

Good morning, everyone. Just a quick question on capital management. I noticed that the board has chosen to refrain from share buyback at this point. Can you talk us through the decision there? Is it a reflection of wanting to see leverage ratios lower or is it a reflection of more confidence in the M&A pipeline?

Yeah, thanks, Dan. It's Michael here. I can take that one for you. Look, we've still got a little bit more to go of a buyback that was approved earlier on. So, you know, we didn't do that in Q4. And, you know, that's really a function of, you know, we have a good M&A pipeline and there's opportunities there as always. So, you know, we elected to not do the buyback, you know, from a... From a capital allocation standpoint, the buyback is just one element of that. Clearly, the strong cash flow, we direct to CapEx first to grow the business organically. We continue to pay a dividend, and you saw us increase the dividend again, and then with the free cash flow left over, clearly, we'd like to invest that first and foremost in M&A because that's where we get the greatest return. And if that's not available, then the buyback is really the next alternative. So the buyback is, and obviously it's a function of the cash flow performance as well. So for now, we haven't called out a buyback for 25. We've still got to finish a little bit left over there to do. But we've got a good pipeline of M&A activity. We're expecting the cash flow in the business to be solid through the year as we've guided to $900 to $1 billion. So we'll see how things play out as we work our way through the year. If there's capacity to do the buyback, we'll do it.

Your next question comes from the line of Anthony Petanari with Citi. Your line is open.

Good evening. We've come off two, three years of pretty sharp cost inflation that you had to absorb and pass on to your customers. Just wondering, as you look at the 25 guidance what kind of cost inflation raw material inflation you know resin assumptions are baked in to the full year guidance and you know how might it be different or not different than what you've kind of experienced over the last couple years yeah you're quite right i mean we've been in a highly inflationary environment um you know clearly inflation is abating um though it's you know still elevated levels but but clearly abating

I think from where we sit today, the main area of inflation now is really in the labor side of things. And that's probably in that kind of mid-single-digit range, and we'd expect that, again, in FY25. But our cost inflation in the quarter four was about $35 million. um you know 190 million for the year versus 340 million in the prior year so you can see that it is abating um and you know i think the main area really now is just on the on the labor side as we look forward from a raw material standpoint um look it's a pretty benign environment at the moment i think in q4 probably overall and you know we buy a broad basket of of raw materials um and across you know multiple geographies across the globe If I think about Q4, probably in general, it was up kind of low single digit, I would say, but it was a bit mixed by raw material type. So resins up a little, aluminium up probably more mid to high, but then films and liquids were down. So on balance... not a material impact to the business. And from an EBIT standpoint, we really, for the year, we're pretty neutral on the raw material side. As we look into 25, really, as we look into the first quarter, again, we're seeing a pretty benign environment. If I think about North America and Europe, raw materials typically look pretty flat in the first quarter. Perhaps Asia is the one area where we might see some slight increases in raw materials. But again, generally, I'd say the basket of goods is pretty benign across the globe. So, you know, that's what we've factored into our guidance assumptions. And, of course, we've given you a range of growth in the guidance assumptions, kind of 3% to 8%. Obviously, raw materials is a factor within that. I mean, we pass through raw materials contractually, but there can be a lag. So, you know, that's just one element that could, you know, get us to the bottom or upper end of that range.

Your next question comes from the line of George Staffos with Bank of America. Your line is open.

Hi, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. Hope you can hear me. Can you comment on the outlook for beverage in North America and when you expect the volumes to turn more positive? Thank you so much.

Hey, George. It's PK here. I'll take that question. Look, beverage in North America is It's a little more discretionary than many of the other categories that we serve. Think about the isotonic category as such. We're seeing in the current environment, if you just look at scanner data, sort of low single digit to mid single digit decline in that category. And that's what we're facing in the market right now. And on top of that, I would say that our performance is also somewhat impacted by our exposure to customers that are in their totality underperforming the market. Some low single digit, if you want, and that rolls up to our own volume performance. On your question, how do we expect that to continue, I think as we're looking at 25, It will to a large extent come down to the question of how consumer demand is developing in that category going forward. I think we've got to be realistic here. We've got to say that we're not overly ambitious in terms of expecting the volumes to turn around in the near future. We would hope that that's the case. But as we're looking into the next year, I think we're being realistic about that. And it has mostly to do with the discretionary sort of nature of the category that we're exposed to. So that's how I would answer that question. I hope that helps.

Your next question comes from the line of James Wilson with Jardin Australia. Your line is open.

Morning, guys. Just heading into FY25, can you give us a bit of a sense of the quantum of the $400 million of cost out that you've managed to do over FY24 that will have to come back into the business as volumes pick up?

Yeah, sure, James. It's Michael here. I can take that one. As you said, we've been pretty focused on cost in 24 and I'm pleased with where we ended up. We've generated savings in in excess of $440 million, which includes $35 million of benefits from the structural program that we put in place as well. And if you think about where that's coming from, there's two elements to it, obviously. The operating performance of the business, we've been laser focused on managing our shift patterns, taking whole shifts out where we can and flexing the operational cost of the business to the lower volumes. Procurement has been a big driver in this environment. Obviously, you know, we've been working hard through our global reach and scale on that front. And discretionary spend has been managed quite tightly. You know, obviously, we've had a strong year in 24 and we'll be lapping some of that. But, you know, as we look into 25, you know, the structural benefits of 35 million, there'll be a further 15 million in 25. So that completes that program where we... We were going to invest $170 million in cash and get the $50 million out, so we're well down the path of that and confident in that space. And then on the balance, I mean, we continue to get procurement benefits. We'll continue to manage the operations, but clearly as the volumes increase, which is what we saw in Q4, we'll have to flex the labour back up to manage those higher volumes that we're anticipating. That said, it won't be linear. So, you know, we'll be able, we're more efficient today. We'll continue to see benefits from the cost takeout that we've had just in the efficiency as we deal with those increasing volumes working through the next year. So, you know, hopefully that helps.

Your next question comes from the line of Brooke Campbell Crawford with Baron Joey. Your line is open.

Yeah, good evening. Thanks for taking my question. Just a quick one for you, Michael, please. Just around the DNA charge in the fourth quarter was quite a bit lower than we were thinking. It was down about 8% year over year or 6% quarter on quarter. Do you mind just commenting on what sort of drove that reduction in DNA in the quarter? And should we really just be annualizing that fourth quarter DNA charge when thinking about FY25, or is there other adjustments we need to think about? Thanks.

Yeah, thanks, Brooke. I can help you there. Look, in the quarter, well, for the year, as you said, DNA was down kind of $7 million or thereabouts, not material. I mean, it's really a factor of a couple of things. Obviously, we reduced capex spend, so you've got a little less there. And also, with the restructuring we've been doing, we've closed seven plants, four restructures as well. So clearly some assets have come out of the business from that front. And, you know, there's been some other minor adjustments here and there. So as I look forward, you know, I'd still expect depreciation to be in that kind of 400 to 420 million range on an annual basis, which is, you know, again, as we build CapEx spend in 25, as I mentioned in my speaking notes, we are expecting to increase CapEx again, in 25 as we work our way through higher volumes. So, you know, that will normalize some of that depreciation.

Your next question comes from the line of Richard Johnson with Jefferies. Your line is open.

Thanks very much. PK, I've been thinking a little bit about the business kind of beyond the volume normalization process and in the nearer term, the benefits your profitability is getting from the restructuring program that you've put in place. Is it possible to get a sense from you when you look across your portfolio, which of course is very broad from both a category but a geographic perspective, are there areas that you think that could do with a bit of refreshing on the one hand or on the other hand maybe structurally challenged and long-term might actually be a drag on the growth that you think the business could ultimately produce? Thanks.

Yeah, hi, Richard. I wonder how I can best sort of answer that question you're asking about refreshing certain areas of the portfolio and seeing potential drags on the performance of the business going forward. First of all, I got to remind everyone here that the position that I'm in And it's hard for me right now as an interim to sort of formulate views on the long-term strategy of the company, which that sort of touches on when you go to the portfolio. But in essence, having said that, I believe that the business should continue to focus on categories that are more attractive than others. And that would be a starting point. You know that we feel strongly about focusing the business on certain areas that are, you know, potentially value-driven, therefore higher margins and offering better growth than others. In flexibles, the problem is always, or the challenge is, you can be everything to everybody, and that has never really played out. I'm a big big fan of focusing the business of those areas that are more attractive to us. Now, the ones that I would call out here as just as examples is the protein category that we've talked about in the past, which breaks out into meat and into dairy, cheese to be a little more specific. We do like coffee or particularly premium coffee. We do like healthcare, while I did say that we're going through the short-term normalization of the business. We like pet food and so on and so forth. So that's a good starting point. When you sort of go through the portfolio, you may find other categories that are less attractive, and that is something that we sort of need to strategically think through. In terms of geographies, I like the exposure of the business, you know, between developed and emerging markets. And there we would want to continue the journey that we've been on. You've seen us make acquisitions also in the past. You know, if I just look at the health care business that we acquired in China, the flexibles business in India, you know, we made an acquisition in Eastern Europe. which is positive, just to mention a few examples. So I think that's what we're doing. This is the way how we're thinking about it, and we need to continue to think about it. And I hope that that provides a bit of color to the question.

Your next question comes from the line of John Purtell with Macquarie. Your line is open.

G'day, Peter and Michael. Hope you're both well. Look, just a question regarding the flow of volumes through the quarter. Where did the exit rate end at? And if you're able to make any comment on developed markets and emerging markets within that.

Yeah, I'm happy to take that question. Look, I'll start out by saying I'm not a big believer in commenting on... on monthly volume performances because you have big swings in there and you can't really read too much into it. And I think that a quarter is better of an indicator for actual performance. And I would like to stay on that level. So 1% overall growth in the fourth quarter is a good indication for the momentum that we carry forward into fiscal 25. Now, to the second part of the question, you know, developed markets versus emerging markets, we have in the past quarter seen growth in the emerging markets like you would expect. The developed markets were a little more muted. And what's been encouraging in the fourth quarter is that the developed markets also returned back to growth. And, you know, I say that particularly encouraged by the fact that they also have the large exposure to health care. where we have seen continued destocking. So that's quite encouraging for us. So again, developed markets performing better despite the healthcare destocking, emerging markets continue to grow, and that's the momentum that we carry forward. Hope that helps.

Your next question comes from the line of Cameron McDonald with EMP. Your line is open.

Good morning, guys. Going back to the structural questions that were asked before, we're seeing some changes in preference shift around substrate towards aluminium cans particularly. Is that providing any sort of headwind to the beverages segment that you've got and or any of the regulatory changes in the European market that could also be providing a bit of a challenge going forward. If you can comment on those, please.

Yeah, happy to do that. I mean, these are two big questions or one big question, maybe another one that I can take first. That's a little easier to answer. Let me go to the beverage question first. You know, substrates, In the beverage side of the business, they do coexist, particularly between aluminum and PET, and they both have their place. PET typically is, you see that, you know, in on-the-go consumption, resealable, and that's where PET sort of finds its home. So in the different categories on beverage, you find PET or cans coexist. or aluminum coexist, there is one category where they both sort of compete with each other. And that would be in the subsegment of CSD on the beverage side. Now, over long periods of time, we have seen pretty much constant share between the two substrates in that category. In the more recent past, given the more discretionary environment that we're looking at, consumers are shifting to the better value option. And those tend to be aluminum cans, which are sold in multi-packs through the big box stores and the channel. And because when you take a look at the price points, they seem to be more attractive. So in the more recent times, we've seen a bit of a share shift to cans on that end. And we'll have to see how that plays out as the environment normalizes. But it's not been a big trend for us that significantly impacts the volumes because it's really just this one subcategory. So that said, to the second part of the question, regulatory developments, which is a different animal, but likewise really important for our business. What we've seen in Europe, particularly the packaging and packaging waste regulations come through and we are obviously taking a close look at that. This is a regulatory development that we, to be honest with you, welcome because at the end of the day, you know, all these initiatives try to do one thing and try to accomplish one thing, which is trying to keep plastic waste out of the environment. And that's very much aligned with our targets here as a company and comes back to our efforts in terms of the sustainability or on the sustainability side. The developments there, they help us essentially move the industry faster to an endpoint that we're more than happy to support and that we feel we're very well-placed to support. We have made great progress on developing more sustainable products, which are... which are designed to be recyclable. And the regulation that we've seen essentially moves the whole industry to the concept of circularity that we want to support and that we want to get in place. So we're supportive of the regulatory developments there in Europe, but also elsewhere, and we welcome it.

Your next question comes from the line of Keith Chow with MST Financial Services. Your line is open.

Hi there. Thanks for taking my follow-up. One for Michael. Just the restructuring costs seem to have subsided a touch in the fourth quarter. I think there are some restructuring costs to go in FY25 below the line. Just wondering if you can give us a sense, Michael, on what the drag from that will be on cash flows. Thank you.

Yeah, sure, Keith. Look, we're, you know, the program was going to be around $170 million in cash out. We've spent net today around $110, so, you know, we've got FY25. We'll pretty much finish the program, so it's another $60 odd million to go, which you'd expect to see in the adjusted out of the cash flow. Okay, thank you.

Your next question comes from the line of Nathan Riley with UBS. Your line is open.

Peter, I'm just curious, how much spare capacity do you have in the existing manufacturing footprint to respond to demand growth, really just in terms of managing your shift flexibility?

That's a great question, Nathan. You've got to distinguish between manned capacity and machine capacity that we have in place. That's the way how we think about it. On the manned capacity side, we're challenging ourselves in the business really hard to sort of balance that with the actual demand profile, as you would expect, right? So from a manned capacity side, we're pretty much balanced, and that's where we flex. When we say we flex, that's what we're flexing. Now, when you look at the volume development over the more recent past, and you know that we've gone through a pretty tough patch here, obviously volumes overall have come down. And therefore, the machine capacity offers up some headroom for additional volumes, which is encouraging for, you know, for the future when the volumes come back. What we do have a challenge as a business then is to flex up again and operationalize essentially the additional machine capacity that we require. Now, there's always, and that's going to be my last comment on that question, there's always a challenge because the reality is you never have the capacity where you need it. Um, so, so that's, uh, that, that never plays out in a, in a perfect world. Um, and, and, you know, particularly where we're well positioned, um, with a, with a, with a compelling value proposition, you know, we are full, um, in terms of our capacity, very oftentimes also from a machine capacity standpoint, but that's something that we need to manage on a, on a, on a, on a tactical day-to-day business.

Ladies and gentlemen, that's all the time we have for the question and answer session. I will now turn the call back to management for closing remarks.

Well, look, thanks everybody for the interest in the company and for joining the call. I think the most important thing for me is to really just go back and to go back to the key messages for the call. We really have a strong water. And we've had good questions, but, you know, overall, the company is, I think, in a good spot with the momentum that we have developed in the fourth quarter to go into 25. We're pretty good about where we stand and where we sit and pretty good about the guidance that we have out there. And, you know, we're looking at a good year to come. So thanks very much for the interest in the call and talk to you soon.

This concludes today's conference call. We thank you for joining. You may now disconnect.