Belden Inc

Just as a reminder, this call is being recorded. At this time, you are in a listen-only mode. Later, we will conduct a question and answer session. If you'd like to ask a question, please press star one on your touchtone phone. If you're in the question queue and would like to withdraw your question, simply press star two. I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Aaron Reddington. Please go ahead, sir.

Good morning, everyone. And thank you for joining us for Belvin's fourth quarter and full year 2024 earnings conference call. With me today are Belvin's president and CEO, Ashish Chhan, and senior vice president and CFO, Jeremy Parks. Ashish will provide a strategic overview of our business, and then Jeremy will provide a detailed review of our financial and operating results, followed by Q&A. We issued our earnings release earlier this morning and have prepared a slide presentation that we will reference on this call. The press release, presentation, and transcript of these prepared remarks are currently available online at .belvin.com. Turning to slide two in the presentation. During this call, management will make certain forward-looking statements in reliance upon the safe harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. For more information, please review today's press release and our most recent annual report on form 10K. Additionally, during today's call, management will reference adjusted or non-GAAP financial information. In accordance with regulation G, the appendix to our presentation in the investor relations section of our website contains a reconciliation of the most closely associated GAAP financial information through the non-GAAP financial information we communicate. I will now turn the call over to our president and CEO, Ashish Chand.

Thank you,

Aaron,

and good morning, everyone. We appreciate you joining us. Let's first turn to slide four for a summary of the major accomplishments we achieved during the fourth quarter and full year and key messages I would like to highlight. As a reminder, I will be referring to adjusted results today. First, let me congratulate our team on another solid quarter. We once again executed well and delivered results ahead of expectations. For the fourth quarter, our revenue and earnings per share both exceeded the high end of our guidance as our solutions transformation continues to progress. Revenue totaled $666 million, up 21% compared to the prior year, and earnings per share came in at $1.92. Profitability aligned with our expectations and our adjusted EBITDA margins came in at .1% for the quarter, up 110 basis points compared to the prior year. Second, demand for the quarter was steady as our customers remained in a neutral posture to close out a transitional year. For the fourth quarter, orders were up modestly sequentially and up 23% compared to the prior year. I'm pleased to report that for the full year, our orders were up 9%, reaching nearly $2.5 billion. Overall, our business grew by 14% organically for the quarter. We saw particular strength in the Americas with organic growth of 23%. As the air progressed, we witnessed a strong and steady improvement in ordering patterns across many geographies and verticals. I'm encouraged to see this progress continue with additional upside ahead as we look further into 2025. Finally, our business continues to generate meaningful cash flow and we are deploying capital consistent with our capital allocation priorities. For the year, free cash flow was strong at $223 million, likely ahead of prior performance and expectations. With our ample free cash flow, our team continues to invest in high return opportunities beneficial to shareholders. For the year, we deployed $295 million towards tuck-in acquisitions that enhanced our product portfolio and improved our solutions offerings. Further, we continued buying back our stock. During the fourth quarter, we repurchased approximately half a million shares for $55 million. That brings our full year total to 1.3 million shares for $133 million. Our balance sheet remains strong, allowing us to enhance shareholder returns in multiple ways. You can expect us to continue looking for acquisitions that support our solutions transformation and when appropriate, returning capital to our shareholders through buybacks. Now please turn to slide five. Reflecting on this past year, I'm proud of Belden's tremendous progress in executing upon our strategy outlined during our most recent investor day. First, this past year, we continued strengthening our leadership in automation and infrastructure technologies by expanding our networking and data solutions portfolio with multiple significant upgrades. Let me quickly highlight recent improvements to our OT network switching line, including our introduction of the Hirschman BXP managed switch. Ideal for rail applications, the switch features a compact design, enhanced flexibility and interoperability and support for high speed data requirements. This product introduction showcases how our teams are working hard to solidify and improve our competitive positioning in key growth verticals. Further this year, we continue to expand and deepen our ecosystem partnerships, including our integration with AWS. After incorporating CloudRail into our technology stack this past year, we can now streamline and standardize data discovery, acquisition and normalization and deliver it in a ready to use format for end customers using the AWS platform. This is a huge benefit to our customers and just one example of improvements we are making to our offerings to provide complete networking and data solutions. Second, we made significant strides in advancing our solutions capabilities. As we discussed previously, 2024 was the year we expanded into smart infrastructure and brought solutions to our entire organization. Our sales function was restructured to align with key growth verticals, empowering our teams to leverage our complete product portfolio to build compelling solutions for customers. Further, as outlined during our investor day, our teams are working diligently to expand our library of common reference architectures, improve our software capabilities and fully utilize our customer innovation centers now that they are all up and running. With our expanded focus on solutions across the entire organization, much has been accomplished this year and our momentum going forward is significant. Third, we demonstrated disciplined capital allocation to targeted tuck in acquisitions. With the acquisition of precision optical, we enhanced our solutions capabilities by broadening our product portfolio and delivering a more comprehensive solutions offering. Our acquisition expands our fiber offering with key MSO customers benefiting from strong secular growth trends. Finally, we demonstrated operational excellence and financial discipline during a year of improving business conditions. Revenue for the fourth quarter was up 21% year over year with EBITDA margins up 110 basis points. Our cash flow was strong and we ended the year with pre-cash flow of $223 million or .1% of revenue on a way towards a long-term target of 10%. These accomplishments underscore our unwavering commitment to delivering sustainable earnings growth and strong pre-cash flow generation through the business cycle. Now please turn to slide six. This quarter, I wanna highlight two solutions examples from the power transmission and distribution vertical to illustrate how our solution strategy drives success in the marketplace. The first example is a significant award from a National Energy and Water Authority in EMEA valued at approximately 11 million euros. This project involves upgrading the network backbone and providing support to ensure a successful deployment. The customer face challenges with the legacy network and outdated equipment which limited scalability. Our solutions team developed a comprehensive network design based on our X-Tran MPLS platform, a communications technology that delivers scalable solutions for large networks with multiple nodes. This solution enables the customer to integrate legacy applications with advanced ethernet functionalities all within a reliable, scalable and easily serviceable platform. The second example comes from a Midwest electric cooperative with a contract valued at $3 million. Similarly, this customer was managing multiple legacy systems and protocols which hindered scalability, troubleshooting and network resilience. Our solutions team collaborated with the customer to design a network that included considerations for the utility's future digital strategy using a similar X-Tran solution. Well done with the water the project after a successful proof of concept in the field utilizing our customer innovation center as a remote node. These examples demonstrate our solutions in action. As outlined during our investor day, we focus on verticals and use cases where our technology is most effective and benefits from strong secular trends. In these cases, our power transmission and distribution experts leveraged key insights to quickly deliver repeatable best in class designs that address real world challenges and can be implemented efficiently. Looking ahead, we are committed to advancing our solution strategy by becoming trusted industry experts who provide scalable solutions, leveraging Bellden's active and passive portfolio. We firmly believe our solutions offer superior value in the marketplace. Over time, successes like these will drive increased sales and deepen relationships with key customers, creating long-term, stickier partnerships. I will now request Jeremy provide additional insight into our fourth quarter and full year financial performance. Thank you, Ashish.

I will start my comments with results for the fourth quarter and full year followed by a review of our segments, a discussion of the balance sheet and cash flow, and finally, our outlook. As a reminder, I will be referencing adjusted results today. Now, please turn to slide seven. Revenue for the quarter was $666 million, up 21% year over year, and exceeding the high end of our guidance of $660 million. Organic revenue was up 14% year over year with both automation solutions and smart infrastructure solutions up 14%. We are encouraged to see organic growth return as conditions improve in our markets. As expected, orders for the quarter were up modestly sequentially and up 23% year over year with both segments exhibiting strong growth. Automation solutions was slightly positive on a sequential basis, and smart infrastructure was slightly negative due to typical seasonality. Gross profit margins were 38.1%, as expected, decreasing 10 basis points compared to the prior year, but up 30 basis points sequentially. EBITDA was $114 million, with EBITDA margins up 110 basis points year over year to 17.1%. Net income was $79 million, up from $61 million in the prior year quarter, and EPS was $1.92, including the benefit of approximately 17 cents due to favorable tax rates compared to our guidance. Adjusting for the tax rate benefit, EPS was $1.75, still above the high end of our guidance. Now, please turn to slide eight. Revenue for the year was nearly $2.5 billion, down 2% from the prior year. Organic revenue was down 6%, with automation solutions down 6%, and smart infrastructure solutions down 5%. As business conditions continued to improve throughout the year, our orders were up 9% on a full year basis. EBITDA was $411 million, with EBITDA margins at .7% for the year. Net income was $263 million, compared to $293 million in the prior year. EPS was $6.36, compared to our record EPS of $6.83 in 2023. Turning now to slide nine, for a review of our business segment results for the fourth quarter. With general market stability, performance for our segment aligned with our expectations. For the fourth quarter, revenue in our automation solution segment was up 15% compared to the prior year. EBITDA margins were 20.6%, up from 19.2%. Orders in automation solutions were up 3% sequentially, and .6% for the fourth quarter. EBITDA margins were up 21% compared to the prior year. Our strongest markets for the quarter and full year included energy and process manufacturing. Despite continued softness in EMEA, we saw double digit organic growth in our discrete market for the fourth quarter. Our discrete business grew moderately sequentially with continued improvement in the Americas and APAC. Our smart infrastructure solution segment grew 27% compared to the prior year. EBITDA margins were 13.3%, up from 12.1%. Aligned with expected seasonality, orders in smart infrastructure were down 3% sequentially, and up 26% compared to the prior year. For the quarter, we saw strength in growth verticals, including healthcare and hospitality. Broadband showed strong growth compared to the prior year, and was roughly flat sequentially, again aligned with normal seasonality. Our markets have stabilized, and most customers are taking a neutral stance in the short term, as they await greater clarity on new policy decisions. Next, please turn to slide 10 for our balance sheet and cash flow highlights. Our cash and cash equivalence balance at the end of the fourth quarter was $370 million, compared to $597 million in the fourth quarter of 2023. Our cash position reflects capital deployment during the year, primarily attributable to the precision optical acquisition and share repurchases. At the end of the year, our financial leverage was a reasonable 1.8 times net debt to EBITDA, consistent with our expectations. We intend to maintain net leverage of approximately 1.5 times over the long term. However, we will fluctuate from time to time as we pursue strategic opportunities consistent with our capital allocation priorities. For the full year, our free cash flow was $223 million ahead of previous periods. When compared to our revenue, free cash flow margins increased to 9.1%, up from .6% in the prior year. Consistent with our capital allocation priorities, we deployed $436 million for M&A share repurchase, repurchases and dividends during the year. In 2024, we repurchased 1.3 million shares, further reducing our share count, which is now 10% lower than it was three years ago. We currently have $340 million remaining on our repurchase authorization. Going forward, we see the opportunity to continue deploying capital towards both acquisitions and share repurchases. As our solutions offerings expand, our margins continue to strengthen, leading to increased cash flow. This steady flow of capital allows us to make strategic, high return investments that further enhance our capacity to generate incremental cash flow. As a reminder, our next debt maturity is not until 2027, and all of our debt is fixed with rates averaging 3.5%. Please turn to slide 11 for our first quarter outlook. For the first quarter, we anticipate order patterns aligning with typical seasonality and expect our customers to remain in a neutral posture as they navigate this dynamic environment. Revenues are expected to be between $605 million and $620 million, representing a 13% to 16% increase over the prior year quarter. Adjusted EPS is expected to be between $1.43 and $1.53, representing a 15% to 23% increase over the prior year quarter. Guidance includes the impact of a stronger U.S. dollar relative to other major currencies. As such, for the first quarter, we expect a currency exchange headwind of approximately $15 million in revenue and $0.05 in EPS compared to prevailing rates in the prior quarter. At current rates, we expect a similar impact in each quarter for the balance of the year. We expect a tax rate of .3% in the first quarter and nearly 20% for the remaining three quarters of the year. That concludes my prepared remarks. I would now like to turn the call back to Ashish.

Thank you, Jeremy. Summarize, 2024 was a strong year for Belden and our team executed well despite the dynamic environment. As outlined earlier, we continue positioning our business for the massive opportunity ahead. Business conditions steadily improved this past year, with revenue, EBITDA, and EPS increasing each quarter. In fact, if you compare the second half of the year to the first, you will see that our revenue increased 16%, EBITDA increased 23%, and EPS increased 32%. Orders also showed positive momentum, increasing sequentially each quarter and reaching nearly $2.5 billion for the year, up 9% compared to 2023. Our key growth regions are improving nicely. The Americas was up 23% organically in the fourth quarter, led by outperformance in the US. Finally, in the most recent quarter, we saw a particular strength in our energy, process manufacturing, and broadband markets. By focusing on key growth verticals, where our products and solutions have a competitive advantage, our business is primed to capitalize on long-term secular growth drivers. Looking forward to the first quarter, our guidance implies that customers maintain a neutral posture. We expect policy and implications to be clarified over the next few months, and despite the short-term uncertainty, we anticipate customers will move quickly and deploy capital accordingly. Our view on the opportunity ahead for us in 2025 remains unchanged, with meaningful upside once decision-makers have more certainty. While we are not guiding beyond the first quarter, I can confidently say that I expect 2025 to be a record performance for Belden. I anticipate that we will see many new highs for the business, well above those of the past, for the following reasons. First, orders this past year have largely stabilized, with some verticals showing healthy and growing demand. As I mentioned earlier, our key growth regions are also improving, and channel checks indicate that they are nearly through destocking, with a return to growth going forward. Second, after more than two years of manufacturing PMIs in contraction territory, we are seeing signs of rebound in activity, which is expected to positively impact our business. Finally, re-industrialization in the US is set to accelerate, and we have strategically aligned our business to capitalize on this trend. Our solutions transformation is delivering results, driving incremental growth and margin expansion. Major secular trends, and our continued push into solutions provide us with a significant runway ahead as the teams innovate. We enter 2025 in a position of strength, with the underlying trends moving in the right direction. Now, regarding the $8 EPS target, let me take a moment to summarize what has transpired since I invested there last year. On the plus side, the fourth quarter was strong. We exceeded expectations, continued to grow orders, and saw many of our verticals and regions turn positive compared to the prior year. For the first quarter, we see performance aligned with normal seasonality, which reflects a continuation of the trends we saw in the fourth quarter. This is all good, and supports our previously articulated pathway to achieving $8 in EPS in 2025. On the other hand, we are seeing incremental headwinds that make achieving the target slightly more challenging. First, as Jeremy articulated, the US dollar continues to strengthen, creating a currency translation headwind into 2025. Further, short-term friction persists today, which risks delaying the uptick in demand we would expect in our business for the balance of the air. We can only achieve $8 in 2025 if business conditions improve beyond the first quarter. To conclude, our posture on $8 has not changed. And excluding the currency headwind, our expectations for 2025 remain just as positive. Test assured, we will continue to operate the business to benefit our shareholders, making prudent strategic investment and capital allocation decisions to support our long-term commitments. As outlined in our investor day, our growth algorithm will deliver long-term shareholder value. We are targeting true cycle EPS growth of 10 to 12 percent longer term, driven by mid to single digit organic growth and consistent margin expansion. Balance progress last year and the opportunity ahead in 2025 are a testament to our team's hard work and dedication. I'm excited about our long-term potential as we continue to execute a strategy and create lasting value for our stakeholders. I also want to take a moment to recognize the valuable contributions of our associates over the past quarter. Your efforts and commitment are greatly appreciated and I thank you for your unwavering support as we transform Belden. That concludes our prepared remarks. Operator, please open the call to questions.

Thank you. If you'd like to ask a question, during the Q&A session, please press star one on your touchtone phone. If you'd like to withdraw your question, press star two. The first question is from Mark Delaney of Goldman Sachs.

Yes, good morning. Thank you very much for taking the questions. You mentioned you expect improvement this year in the business when you look at manufacturing PMIs and consider inventory levels in the channel and the de-stocking that occurred over the course of the last year. But then you also talked about an expectation for normal seasonality and some near-term uncertainty as customers evaluate the policy environment. Maybe you could elaborate a little bit more on some of those factors, specifically to the one queue guidance. Are you assuming any pickup in activity making or is that not something that's baked into your one queue guidance and maybe just talk a little bit more on what you've seen with order patterns so far this year?

Yeah, well thanks, Mark. So if you think about Q1, I think I would like to separate the two factors we talked about. So yes, there is regular seasonality. It's typically six to 8% going from Q4 to Q1. And I think our guidance is prudent in that it considers that aspect. At the same time, whilst there are certain positive trends and you listed them, orders improving, solutions improving, the de-stocking coming to an end, tapering off, undoubtedly there is some shorter term friction. I think overall the broader policy agenda supports our business. Reindustrialization, especially in the US, will be very helpful given our posture. But there are certain things our customers and markets broadly are working through right now. And so yeah, so seasonality separate from that. But I think once you get past Q1, we expect things to actually be pretty much on course for the 2025 we had in mind.

That's helpful, but just to clarify, you don't need any pickup in activity to hit the one-Q guidance.

Yeah, that's correct. That's correct. Sorry, I should have just... I should have the goal of seasonality, yeah.

Understood, and then in terms of some of the puts and takes to the $8 target, to the extent you do see business conditions pick up starting in two-Q, do you think you're tracking to the $8 number or is FX too much of an incremental headwind?

We'll have to see how things go, Mark. Obviously we're not guiding outside of the first quarter and even as we talked about $8 in the script, we made sure to say that it's not a guidance. Obviously we need things to pick up. We expect they will pick up as we go throughout the year. Now we're not planning on it to happen in first quarter now, but we do think as we move throughout the year, things will get significantly better and we'll see how things go. I think at the same time, in order to hit that $8 number, we'll have to continue to make some smart capital allocation decisions, and so those are things we're evaluating at the same time. So we'll see how things go, and I'm sure we'll know a bit more in 90 days from now.

Understood, thank you.

The next question comes from Steven Fox with Fox Advisors.

Hi, good morning. First I had a question just clarifying a couple of end market comments. So when you talked about the customers being in the neutral posture, is that across the board or are there some markets where maybe you don't need to see, where that will do well no matter what happens with policy? And then on the EMEA side, you mentioned EMEA's weak, but then you also said there's a pickup in discrete manufacturing, so I'm a little unclear on how to tie all that together. And then if I could follow up with one other question, that'd be great.

Sure, so let me deal with the discrete item first. So Steve, generally discrete markets have been slow in 2024. However, in Q4 we saw double-digit growth there, and that was inspired with EMEA being slightly weak. Now, EMEA itself has also improved. Remember a lot of what we do at EMEA is focused on them exporting to markets across the world. And I think especially in the US, discrete markets including material handling have just done better and better as they have progressed. So, and if you look at how we've built our own stack, you know, which is passive hardware, active hardware, and software to help discrete markets, you know, we solve for problems, including the shortage of labor, you know, productivity, you know, shortage of capital when you're trying to retrofit existing factories and warehouses. So those are all good things for us. And, you know, yeah, so discrete has been a more positive spark versus in the past. Now, if I think of which markets will continue to do well in spite of some short-term uncertainty, I think energy and process stand out. You know, they've really started making investments that, you know, that I think are more, will stay more consistent through this period. But I think there are certain other markets that are trying to digest all the information right now, figure out how the short-term friction might affect them. And that's more in the manufacturing space. So maybe, you know, more in the discrete space. So we, again, we think that this is short-term. We believe that post Q1 things will actually be much more positive.

Great, that's helpful. And then just a bigger picture question on the solutions business. Is there any way to put a little more perspective on how the mix is shifting now that we're at the end of the year, either looking back at, you know, percent of sales, percent of orders versus the prior year and how that shift can continue into 25? Thanks very much.

Yeah, so, you know, solutions as a percentage of sales came in approximately in that 10 to 12% region for the full year, which is what we had previously talked about, if you remember, even during Invest Today, that's what we expected will happen. I think the more interesting part for us on solutions has been that we are now going to market with one combined offering across the two technology segments, right? So we're saying automation solutions, smart infrastructure solutions are going to provide technology to different vertical markets. So the way I want you to imagine this is that we are building a stack or we've built a stack that is, you know, like I said, passive, active and software, and it can pivot to any vertical market. And there are certain examples. So for, you know, we talked about today about MPLS technology, which was previously used more in the energy sector, now we are seeing more of that also getting into mass transit. Similarly, you see smart buildings products that were previously used in healthcare, hospitality, now moving to material handling and warehouses. Similarly, you see, you know, substation automation products, routers and switches that were used in power transmission and distribution, now moving to data centers because they need more, you know, energy management. So that's been the good development in 24. It's not just the percentage of revenue, but how consistently we've been able to take pieces of that portfolio and make our solutions more consistent. Our goal is not to build a different stack for verticals, but to use the same stack with optimal customization. So I think a lot of the development that we noted in 2024 was in that space. So overall doing extremely well, you know, we see good momentum on solutions. We expect that to accelerate in 2025 with the re-industrialization going through in the US.

Super helpful. Thank you.

Next question is from William Stein with Truist Securities.

Great. Thanks for taking my questions. First, you know, what we've seen with some companies is this anticipation of trying, the customers potentially trying to get ahead of any volatility in the tariff structure and maybe pull in orders that were scheduled for Q1 into Q4. I'm wondering if you think that happened, whether you can measure it, whether you, you know, think you know or know you know, and any comment on that dynamic?

So, well, we've, you know, obviously we have some visibility, not a hundred percent, right, but we obviously work very hard with our channel partners, especially in the US where we have more visibility and more, you know, we can see POS data more. We don't believe that there has been any kind of large scale pull in. I know of a couple of anecdotal cases where somebody said they were trying to do that, but broadly based on the data we have both with end customer interaction as well as the channel checks, we don't see that. I think our Q4 was pretty clean and as expected. Now, the other aspect of course you've raised here is, you know, about tariffs. Now remember, Will, that most of our manufacturing is within region, in fact, within country, closer to consumption for most geographies. And we don't actually, I mean, our customers understand that they don't actually have any kind of major panic. Yes, there will be some, you know, minor impact. I think we're well positioned to address that. So, no, I think we can firmly say here that we did not experience any significant pull in or any pull in for that matter in Q4. Q1 is, you know, adjusted for seasonality and FX is about where, you know, we should be guiding at this time given some shorter term friction.

Thank you for that. And then the follow-up relates to that shorter term friction that you described. I would imagine that that shows up in the form of shorter backlog and maybe somewhat faster turns built into the Q1 guide. Is that the right way to think about what's going on or not? And maybe any way that you can elaborate on the duration of your backlog and the visibility that you have today into the Q1 guide relative to what you might have had in a, if there is such thing as a typical Q1.

Yeah, hey Will, so with respect to the backlog, it's not changed very much because our book to Bill has been about one every quarter. So right now it's a little over 500 million. It's been at that level for several quarters in a row. So I wouldn't say our visibility is any better or worse than it is in a typical quarter. And I wouldn't say that we've seen an inordinate amount of like quick turn orders. I think it's been pretty standard. I think the comment we were making is that we just don't expect the orders to do. Sequentially, we don't expect better orders performance that we would typically see from Q4 to Q1. And so that's how we've modeled the forecasting or how we've modeled the guidance at this point. If we go through the quarter and things change, things get better, that'll be a good thing. But that's our baseline assumption for the first quarter. But with respect to the backlog, it's not really much different than it's been the last few quarters.

Thank you.

Yep.

And once again, to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. The next question comes from David Williams with Benchmark.

Your line is open. You may be on mute.

At this time, there's no response. And at this time, there are no, I do apologize. We'll go next to Rob Jamieson with Vertical Research Partners.

Hey,

guys.

Thanks.

I guess just wanted to touch back on the 1Q guide and just the color there. And how would you characterize the macro that you have embedded in there? Is it more like, you know, if we're talking about PMI specifically, more as we exited 2024, what the readings were like, or does this account for like the January kind of upticks that we saw in Europe and the US?

You know, Rob, so if you think about our, you know, when we're talking at Investor Day, for example, our expectation was that, you know, we will see something beyond seasonality going into Q1, right? It'll be slightly more positive than the seasonality. And that was based on the macro read at that point in time. I think at this point, we are saying, hey, this is seasonality adjusted, effects adjusted, slattish to Q4, because we just think that those macro factors are still there, but there is some short-term uncertainty that pushes that out by a couple of months. So that's where we are. So, yes, we saw the PMI reading. I mean, of course, that's very positive news. And I think in general, the tapering of the destocking plus, you know, those kinds of indicators show us that 2025 will be better. We just wanted to be prudent in Q1, given that there is what we witnessed around us is some kind of lack of clarity. People are still trying to figure out. It doesn't mean that things are negative. It simply means that people are, you know, just waiting and watching a little bit more for this period, and it's very short-term. So the way I would characterize our guide is no change in the macro view, a more prudent perspective on the very short-term.

Okay, that helps. And then I guess just to touch on the seasonality, can you maybe remind us how a normal year might play out, whether that's on a quarterly basis or first half versus second half contribution to full year revenue? Is it going to be like typically in the second half, it's like 52% or so, but just some lesson color around that as well.

Yeah, sure, Rob. So yeah, obviously for us, Q1 is always the low point for the year. Everything else equal, and I would say it's, again, it's sort of, if you just take the way we've guided this, right, down 6% to 8% sequentially from Q4 to Q1, you would expect a nice pop then from Q1 to Q2, and then I would say everything else equal, no improvement in the market. So I guess Q2, Q3, and Q4 would look very similar to each other. So you hit the low point in Q1, things rebound in Q2. But obviously we're hopeful as we move throughout the year, we start to see some additional market improvement, which would make that improvement as we go throughout the year even better. But we'll see.

Okay, thank you. Sure.

There are no further questions at this time. I will turn the call back to Mr. Reddington for an additional or closing remarks.

Thank you, operator, and thank you everyone for joining today's call. If you have any questions, please contact the IR team here at Belden. Our email address is .belden.com. Thank you very much.

Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. This concludes our call for today. You may now disconnect from the call, and thank you for participating.