Birkenstock Holding plc Ordinary Shares

Good morning and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Birkenstock's fourth quarter and fiscal year 2024 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session. The company allocated 60 minutes in total to this conference call. I would like to remind everyone that this conference call is being recorded. I will now turn over the call to Megan Kulik, Director of Investor Relations.

Hello, and thank you everyone for joining us today. On the call are Oliver Reichert, Director of Birkenstock Holding, TLC, and Chief Executive Officer of the Birkenstock Group, and Eric Mosman, Chief Financial Officer of the Birkenstock Group. Klaus Baumann, Chief Sales Officer, David Kahn, President of the Americas, Niko Boyakov, President of EMEA, and Alexander Hoff, Vice President of Global Finance, will also join us for the Q&A. Today, we are reporting the financial results for our fiscal fourth quarter and full year ending September 30th, 2024. You may find the press release and supplemental presentation connected to today's discussion on our investor relations website, Birkenstockholding.com. We would like to remind you that some of the information provided during the call is forward-looking and accordingly is subject to the safe harbor provision of the federal security laws. These statements are subject to various risks, uncertainties, and assumptions, which could cause our actual results to differ materially from these statements. These risks, uncertainties, and assumptions are detailed in this morning's press release, as well as in our filings with the SEC, which can be found on our website at birkenstockholding.com. We undertake no obligation to revise or update any forward-looking statements or information except as required by law. During the call, all revenue growth rates will be cited on a constant currency basis unless otherwise stated. We will also reference certain non-IFRS financial information. We use non-IFRS measures as we believe they represent the operational performance and the underlying results of our business more accurately. The presentation of this non-IFRS financial information is not intended to be considered by itself or as a substitute for the financial information prepared and presented in accordance with IFRS. Reconciliations of the IFRS to non-IFRS measures can be found in this morning's press release and in our SEC filings. Before I turn it over to Oliver, I want to draw your attention to the note in our press release in 20F regarding the change in our segment reporting beginning in fiscal 2025. In our fiscal years up to and including 2024, our three reporting segments were the Americas, Europe, and APMA, which was comprised of two operating segments, Asia Pacific, and Middle East, Africa, and India. During the first quarter of fiscal 2025, we have changed our internal organization to merge the Middle East and Africa region with the European operating segment under the leadership of Niko Boyaka to create a new reporting segment, Europe, Middle East, and Africa, or EMEA. While the India region has been merged with the Asia Pacific operating segment to create a new segment, APAC, which will continue under the leadership of Klaus Bauman. The change was due to the operational advantages and complimentary benefits between the regions. No changes were made to the composition of the Americas operating segment. As a result, starting with fiscal 2025, the company has three operating as well as reportable segments, Americas, EMEA, and APAC. Our first quarter 2025 results will be reported under this new segment structure. Prior to the release of our first quarter 2025 results, we will issue a 6K with the 2024 quarters and fiscal year and the full fiscal year 2023 recast under the new segment reporting structure to aid in your year-over-year comparison. With that, I'll turn it over to Oliver.

Good morning, everybody, and thank you for joining today's call. We are proud to report a very strong fiscal 2024 result, which came in ahead of our expectations. We are delivering on the commitments we made during our IPO by expanding profitably into the wide space of opportunities we identified. Under penetrated product categories, such as closed-door silhouettes, orthopedics, professional, outdoor, and the important up my region and own retail. In our first full fiscal year since we completed our IPO in October 23, we delivered 22% revenue growth in constant currency, extending our decade-long track record of 20% plus compounded annual revenue growth, driven by continued growing demand for our products across all segments, channels, and categories. And we are growing profitably. Our 2024 adjusted EBITDA margin was 30.8%, beating the high end of our expectations. In fiscal year 2024, revenue from closed-toe silhouettes grew at over twice the rate of the overall group and increased share of business to about one-third. In 2024, about half of our top 20 selling silhouettes were closed-toe. Our APMA business grew at 42%, nearly double the pace of the overall business. Our own retail revenue grew over two times the pace of the overall business as we continued to add to our own store's fleet, opening 20 new doors globally in fiscal 24. Leveraging the investments we made in our new Paseback factory, we launched our newest orthopedic innovations. The blue footbed for sneakers expanded and relaunched our professional line, including the fully certified Bilky Air 2.0 and expanded our water-ready outdoor sorbents. We also made additional investments in solids at Daruka, allowing us to increase production capacity to meet the growing global demand for all our products. We increased pairs sold by 14% in fiscal 24, while maintaining disciplined distribution to ensure scarcity and strong full-price realization of over 90% globally. ASP for the year was up 8%, driven by product mix and targeted price increase. We grew our wholesale business by 23% in fiscal 24. Over 90% of the growth came from existing doors as our partners continue to allocate more shelf space to the Birkenstock brand, increasing order size and adding new categories and usage occasions. As consumers are becoming increasingly selective and more intentional in their spending, we are taking share and gaining the attention of our key retail partners and their shoppers. Our DTC business grew 21% and penetration of approximately 40% was consistent with last year. We ended the fiscal year with 67 stores globally, up from 47 at the end of fiscal 23. We grew our membership base by over 30% during the year to over 8 million loyal members who shop more frequently and spend, on average, 30% more than non-members. We continue to balance growth between B2B and D2C to meet the growing global demand, achieve our profitability goals, and maximize our reach, especially into the new targeted consumer group. Now let's move to a brief discussion of segment performance for the year. Within our largest segment, the Americas, we experienced strong consumer demand for our brand throughout the year. Revenue in the region was up 19% compared to fiscal 23. We saw a noticeable return to in-person shopping at multi-brand retailers in the second half of the year. As such, our B2B strengthened throughout the year as many of our strategic partners allocated more space to Birkenstock and experienced very strong back-to-school sell-through. We have emerged as a must-carry brand within our strategic retailer. We believe their significant reach with both door count and social media impressions has amplified our consumer demand beyond what we may achieve on our own. In the Americas, DTC channel, which is almost entirely digital, we delivered revenue growth in the mid-teens. We expanded our physical retail presence, opening four new stores during fiscal 24. We recently opened our first Boston store and plan to add several additional stores later this year. In Europe, we delivered exceptional growth of 21%, which was growth-based across all countries and channels. In the first full year since the completion of our transformation initiatives in the region, we clearly see the benefits of the improved quality in our distribution with double-digit unit and ASP growth. While both closed-toe and sandals grew at double digits for the year, closed-toe grew at over two and a half times faster than sandals, driving ASP higher. We have gained shelf space in strategic retail partners and our brand awareness increased an average of 400 basis points in the key markets since we began our transformation in 2022. We saw strength in both the DTC and B2B channels in Europe. Our focus on better alignment with key strategic retail partners led to increased orders and elevated sell-through performance from these targeted accounts. Our partners continue to widen their business of assortment to meet the expanding consumer demands. In our B2B order book for autumn-winter 24, we doubled share of business in shoes compared to last year. Our European B2C business grew at a similar pace as B2B. After several years of retail consolidation in the region, we embarked on our retail expansion strategy in 24. We opened three new stores in the region, including our first store in Paris. We have identified several additional locations throughout Europe for additional owned retail stores in 25. The Abma region was our fastest growing segment in fiscal 24, growing 42%, nearly double the pace of the overall business. We continue to make progress towards penetrating this significant white space for the Wittenstock brand. Still at only 12% for our overall revenue mix, we see substantial opportunity for growth and will continue to invest in the segment. Aligned with our roadmap and commitment to the region, we added 13 new own retail stores, bringing our total to 25 in the AAPMA region. Additionally, the launch of our online store in the Philippines and the strong performance throughout our digital channel is supporting strong regional DTC growth. We also expanded our strategic partnerships, increasing our monobrand partner doors by approximately 20%, which drives B2B growth in the region. Greater China made up mid-teens' share of Abenari. We are still in the early stages of our market role out there, but are steadily building brand awareness and demand through our increased retail and online presence. We opened our first own store in Chengdu in October and will turn our successful pop-up store in Shanghai into a permanent store later this year. I will now turn it over to Eric to discuss our financial results in more detail. Thanks, Oliver, and good morning, everyone.

I'm pleased to share Berkshire's performance for fourth quarter and full year 2024. Again, we saw very strong growth throughout the year, which accelerated into our fiscal year end, allowing us to achieve another year of over 20% top-line growth, coming in ahead of our expectations. First, let's look at revenues. Fourth quarter 2024 revenues were Euro 456 million, growth of 22% in constant currency. accelerating from third quarters growth of 90%. B2B was up 26% and our D2C performance was up by 18%. This brought our total revenue for fiscal year 2024 to over Euro 1.8 billion, up 22% from 2023 and ahead of our expected growth of 20%. B2B revenues were up 23% and D2C were up 21% for the full year. now looking at gross profit. In analyzing our fourth quarter gross profit margin, it's important to note that the prior year quarter was impacted by several non-cash end-of-year true-up adjustments and the reclassification of logistics expenses combined these elevated Q4 2023 gross margin by approximately 450 basis points, making it not directly comparable to Q4 2024. The adjustments did not impact EBITDA in the period, and importantly, EBITDA margin increased 190 basis points year over year in the quarter. On a reported basis, gross profit margin for quarter fiscal 2024 was 59%. The remaining 190 basis points of decline in gross margin was the result of A, the expected underabsorption impact from new production capacity, which accounts for around 200 basis points, B, the increase in B2B share relative to the last year, and C, FX impact, all offset by some pricing initiatives. The gross margin in Q4 2024 represents the more normalized trend. For the full year, gross profit margin was 58.8%, down 330 basis points from full year 2023. As expected, about 150 basis points of margin declined, was the result of the temporary underabsorption costs from the added production capacity, the remaining 180 basis points from a combination of XX, channel mix, and other effects. Selling and distribution expenditures were Euro 141 million in the fourth quarter, representing 31% of revenue down 640 basis points year over year. Due to impartial logistics reclassification into COGS, as well as lower consulting and other expenses relative to those incurred during our IPO last year. For the full fiscal year, selling and distribution expenditures totaled Euro 507 million, or 28.1% of revenue, down from 29.8% in fiscal year 2023. General administration expenses were Euro 32 million, or 7% of revenue in the quarter, respectively Euro 101 million or 5.6% of revenue for the full year 2024, up 20 basis points year over year, primarily due to the incremental public company costs. Adjusted EBITDA in Q4 of Euro 125 million was up 31% year over year, and margin of 27.4% was up 190 basis points year over year. For the full year, adjusted EBITDA increased 15% to €555 million, for an EBITDA margin of 30.8%, down 160 basis points year-over-year, largely as a result of the capacity expansion, but coming in ahead of our expected range of 30 to 30.5%. Adjusted net profit of €55 million in the fourth quarter was up 118%, and adjusted EPS was Euro 1029, up 107 percent from a year ago. Fiscal 2024 adjusted net profit of Euro 240 million was up 16 percent from 2023. EPS of Euro 128 increased 30 percent year over year. Let's now have a closer look at our balance sheets as of September 30th, 2024. Cash and cash equivalents were Euro 356 million as of September 13, 2024, up from Euro 344 million at the end of fiscal 2023. We generated Euro 429 million operating cash flow during 2024, up 20% year over year. This was driven by the strong EBITDA growth combined with improved working capital efficiency. We improved our inventory to sales ratio to 35%, down from 40% in 2023. Our DSO for fiscal 2024 remained very healthy at 2023, in line with a year ago, despite a slightly higher B2B mix. During 2024, we spent €74 million in capital expenditures and made net repayments of €662 million in outstanding loans. Our net leverage was 1.8 times as of September 30th, 2024, below our stated target of 2.0 times. As we look forward to fiscal 2025, we believe we are well positioned to meet our stated goals and profitability objectives. Our outlook for 2025 is aligned with our medium to long-term targets. We expect revenue growth of 15% to 17%, with balanced and healthy growth from both B2C and B2B. We believe this is the right pace of growth to meet demand within the guide rails of our scarcity model and maintain branch health and full price realization. Gross margin should improve year over year as we increase utilization and efficiency at our production facilities, moving closer to our 60% target. We expect EBITDA margin in the range of 30.8 to 31.3%, an increase of up to 50 basis points compared with 2024. Our effective tax rate is projected to be around 30%. We expect to invest approximately €80 million in capital expenditures in 2025, primarily related to production capacity and retail store expansion. We plan to use excess cash to continue reducing our outstanding debt. Our target leverage ratio for the end of fiscal 2025 is approximately 1.5 times. Now I'm happy to hand over back to Oliver.

Thanks, Eric. Our strength in fiscal 2024 and outlook for 2025 demonstrate our ability and commitment to deliver on the promises we made during our ideas. We are delivering strong double-digit revenue growth. excellent margins, exceptional cash generation, and expanding into the wide space areas we highlighted over a year ago. Our brand strength is evident as our growth continues to outpace our peers globally with strong and increasing demand from our B2B partners and in our growing B2C footprint. We are investing in our production capabilities to meet the growing demand for our products. while carefully executing on our proven engineered distribution strategy to drive ASP growth, ensure healthy stock levels, and maintain strong full-price realizations. We are entering the next chapter of growth as we tap into our largest wide-space market, the APMA region. We are increasing brand awareness, educating the consumer on the purpose of the Birkenstock footbed and our taking market share by following our proven playbook of disciplined engineered distribution to support ASP. With our growing retail presence in the region and continued investment in digital, we see a long runway for growth ahead in us. S24 draws to a close, so does the year in which we celebrated 250 years of shoemaking tradition. shining a light on our purpose to empower all people to walk as nature intended. Many of our wholesale partners used this moment to create special retail placements, allocating additional shelf space for our brand. In our white space region, we were invested to drive awareness. It was great to see the strong appetite for our rich brand heritage. As I've said before, the first 250 years were just the beginning of a much larger and more significant journey. I would now kindly ask the operator to open our Q&A session.

Thank you. At this time, we will be conducting a question and answer session. In the interest of time, we ask that participants limit themselves to one question during today's Q&A. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star two if you would like to remove your question from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star keys. One moment, please, while we poll for questions. And the first question today is coming from Matthew Boss from J.P. Morgan. Matthew, your line is live.

Great, thanks, and congrats on another nice quarter. So, Oliver, you cited 15% to 17% growth as the right pace for a healthy long-term business. I guess, why do you think that's the right pace going forward or any structural change in drivers relative to the past decade of 20% plus growth? And just near term, could you give us some color on what you're seeing in the first quarter relative to that 15% to 17% pace as you are cycling the toughest compare at 26% growth a year ago?

Hello, Matt. Thank you for your question. Can we grow faster? Yes, of course. Based on the overall demand we see, we can definitely grow faster. But again, we have to think about our whole business for the next decade, not in quarters or years. We have to plan mindfully. That's the core of our business here. And remember, we are 100% vertically integrated. So we have to think about hiring people, sourcing raw material, investing in production, and we take the responsibility and well-being for over 6,000 employees globally. It's very serious for us. So quality means for us not only the quality standards, also in production, You know, engineering distribution, it's a very qualitatively driven sales organization we are writing. So it's a quality comes through different layers, raw materials, all of it. So, and just as a comparison, if you grow mid to high teens a year, that means you're doubling your business roughly every five years. And if you think about the whole situation in Birkenstock, doubling their you know, the output of this organization in a five years timeframe, that's a very, very strong growth story. And this is how we operate as a company. And that's why we committed to the mid and high teens growth during the IPO. And we think this is the right pace for sustainable long-term growth. And yes, you mentioned the 20 plus, the 20 plus was the track record for the last year. And again, There will be periods where we can and will grow faster, but if we feel it's right for our core makeup or our core values, then we will do this, absolutely. And regarding Q1, we're seeing globally a very strong holiday season. Given what we've seen in Q1, we feel very comfortable that Q1 will likely come in the higher end of our 15% to 17% annual revenue growth guidance range, even against the strong comps last year. Remember last year, there was like a 26% growth. So we do think that ending up at the higher end of our guidance range will be a strong signal for the brand and the global demand, which is definitely outstripping our supply here.

I'd agree. Great color. Best of luck.

Thank you. The next question is coming from Paul from Citi. Paul, your line is live.

Hey, thanks, guys. Albert, can you give a little bit more color on 1Q, just how DTC versus B2B is performing, and how are you thinking about B2B versus DTC in F25. Overall, how are you planning the business around that 15 to 17 in each of those segments? And then can you maybe talk about gross margin by quarter? Assuming 1Q is not up year over year, but just wondering when you're looking for gross margin to inflect positive.

Thanks. Hey Paul, this is Nico.

Thank you for your question. I'm taking the first one on DTC and B2B growth and going forward. So what we will see is definitely, we'll continue to see a balanced growth between DTC and B2B throughout fiscal 2025. Certainly with some nuances from quarter to quarter as some quarters are more sell-in and some quarters are more sell-through driven. Please be reminded that online represents 90% of our DTC currently. So in other words, retail is just presenting 10% of our DTC. And we've been executing our retail expansion plan with great success. Recently opened stores are performing really well, and they're performing well from day one. Paris Le Marais that opened in Q4 is our top performing store in Europe. Chengdu store is welcoming 4,000 visitors every week, outperforming our expectations. And then Austin store is also really outperforming our expectations. Please be assured we have secured more locations, more exciting locations to open this fiscal year. So you'll hear us more talking about retail expansion and you'll see retail gaining more weight in our DTC channel. Our overview on channel growth is that we want to fulfill demand where it occurs, while we really remain disciplined in our distribution for B2B. As you know, 90% of growth is really coming from existing wholesale partners. And what they do is they expand our offering. They offer more shelf space, and they go with a wider offering to their consumers. So this gives us a broader reach to consumers with a broader assortment and let consumers enjoy the full breadth of our brand. We remain disciplined in our distribution for B2B, and this is a high-quality and profitable growth with a full-price realization that is superior to any other brand out there.

Thanks.

And then Eric, maybe any color on the gross margin? Sorry, I didn't get the question at the beginning. Thanks.

Gross margin, if you look at Q4, the gross margin last year had a number of non-cash out-of-period accounting that impacted the quarterly margin comparison. So these totaled about 450 basis points. of which the majority was related to a true-up of internal logistic expenses for the year that were reclassified between Cox and selling distribution expenses. There was no impact on the full-year gross margin, and even more important, no impact at all on EBITDA. So this is why we should look at the quarterly trends for gross margin EBITDA margin in 24 as a guide for 25. And while, as you know, we will not be giving quarterly margin guidance overall, We have said we expect a modest improvement in gross margin for 25, and EBITDA will go up 50 basis points higher next year.

Thank you, guys. Good luck.

Thank you. The next question will be from Michael Benetti from Evercore. Michael, your line is live.

Thanks for the detail there. Let me keep going on the gross margin and how we should think about it going forward into 2025. Are there any other unusual items we need to think about as we look out at the quarterly trends? I know there was a big reclassification in 4Q as we roll into 1Q, 2Q. Is that an appropriate baseline to think about a year ago? And then on revenues, I guess to double-click a little bit, thanks for the color on first quarter. You mentioned the tough compares in the quarter. Obviously the D to C compare is obviously very tough in the first quarter. Anything to think about between the two channels in the first quarter is that obviously affects margins. And then finally on SG&A, I'm just curious if you could speak to the cadence of spend this year. It hasn't really aligned very closely with revenue growth in the past and can have a pretty material difference on earnings quarter to quarter. It started growing in the mid-20s last year and ended the year much, much lower. So I'm curious, does SG&A snap back? to mid to high teens in the first half, or is it best to think about it as like a high single-digit growth rate in the first half and accelerates its revenues through the year?

Hey, Michael. This is Alexander. Thanks for the question. I will take the first and the third part of your question. With our numbers in 24, the quarterly cadence, we are quite confident that this is a good basis to model the 25 quarters. So 24 is completely clean. There's no hiccups, no unusual items you need to know about. And, of course, we have some seasonality. I'm sure you're aware of that. especially with the higher DTC penetration in the first and then the fourth quarter impacting gross margins and also SG&A ratios. But overall, 24 is a good basis to start with for 25. And then maybe just one last remark on gross margin. Eric mentioned that we are seeing um yeah a slight uptrend of the margin in 25 this will likely to happen in the back half of the year okay sgna well on the sgna it's the same cadence and also a good starting point for the 25 There are fluctuations, but this is just pure seasonality and depending on the channel mix, but SG&A is also a good starting point taking the 24 numbers.

Okay. Thank you very much. Appreciate it, guys.

Thank you. The next question is coming from Dana Telsey from Telsey Group. Dana, your line is live.

Hi. Good morning, everyone. As you think about, I believe the pairs were up 14% this year, ASP up around 8% this year. How are you thinking of that going forward, especially given the production capacity that's coming more online? What are you looking at? And it also sounds like the traffic in stores, did it continue to accelerate in the current quarter? What are you seeing given the increased penetration of stores in the new store openings? And just anything more on wholesale in the Americas, what you're seeing on order trends. Is it still more from existing accounts or are there new ones too? Thank you.

Hi, Dana. This is Nico. I'm going to take the first part of the question and then I'll hand over to my esteemed colleague, David, to give us some color on the Americas piece. So on units versus ASP growth, we definitely see volume being a bigger driver of growth than previous years. As you know, finally, we have the capacity to really unlock wide space categories such as the APMA or now APAC region, our closed-door product category, but also other business areas such as professional. These are all incremental fields of play to our unit growth. Further to that, this increased capacity is also benefiting our B2B business. It really allows us to gain shelf space with existing partners that are widening their assortment and offering. Even with that high unit growth, we expect a positive ASP contribution to revenue growth driven by mix predominantly, but also like for like pricing going forward.

Dana, hey, this is David. Just to follow up on the back half of that question, as you've heard repeatedly from us, 90% of our growth in revenue comes from not only existing accounts, but existing doors. So that shows that we're getting increased shelf space, increased penetration, increased spread in our collection, mainly in our current points of distribution. The only new points of distribution would be ones that are very, very tactical and strategic. For us, we've spoken about this previously, but most specifically related to sports specialty where we've, over the last year, established a nice small basis, but very, very disciplined growth in that specific channel.

Thank you.

Thank you. The next question will be from Laurent Vasilescu from BNP Paribas. Laurent, your line is live.

Oh, good morning, Oliver and team. Thanks very much for taking my question. I wanted to ask a three-part question, if I may. Last year, for fiscal year 24, you opened 20 stores. How many stores should we assume for this year, and should it be really weighted to Asia? That kind of leads us to the second question. I think, Oliver, you mentioned China is only 15% of your APMA region, so about 30 million euros, still very small. Can you talk about the positioning of the brand in China and what you think is the longer term opportunity? And then lastly, you mentioned that the closed-toed offering was roughly a third of the business. Where do you think that goes for FY25 and longer term? Thank you very much.

Hey, this is Nico again. Thank you for your question. I'm going to do the first part of it, which is stores related, and then I'm going to hand over to Klaus for the Asia piece. As you know, retail is a massive growth pillar for us. We are currently operating 67 stores and have added 20 stores in 2024. We have plans to open more. We are very disciplined in regards of the locations that we go after, but also our return requirements. Cash payback on investment is, as you know, within 18 months. So, yes, we do expand, but we also expand very consciously, if you will. Our aim for fiscal 25 is to increase the door fleet by 50%. So that's a significant growth of our door fleet. And as I said, every store that is opened is performing and has to perform really well from day one. So you see us having some really exciting locations lined up. We just opened in Europe. We just opened Cologne. We opened Amsterdam. More to come. As I said, Paris is a very, very great success story in Europe. And so there are many others in the other regions. So more to come on that.

Hello Laurent, Klaus here, answering the China question. First of all, it's important to know that we are not new in China. I mean, we have a long history there and yes, we are accelerating now our growth. We are, as you know, we signed up a partner for our B2B mono store development and we are delivering now to six point of sales and we are operating two owned stores. On the digital side, we opened social sales channels as TikTok and the mini chat program. So looking forward, I mean, we will keep this pace and make sure we for sure double the fleet.

That's great to hear. And on a closed-toed offering, where do you think that goes for this year and over time?

Yeah. So this is Nico again. Um, so close to offering, as you know, is now a third of our business. Um, and it, uh, continues to grow at the pace of more than twice as fast as our sandals, uh, important to, to know that sandals is growing double digit. So we grow both, um, um, areas of the business, um, while, um, close to us over-performing. Um, it will go, um, more, uh, we haven't, uh, set ourselves a target for this one, but you will see an increased share of close to a business going forward.

Very helpful. Thank you very much.

Thank you. The next question will be from Randy Koenig from Jefferies. Randy, your line is live.

Yeah, thanks a lot. Good morning. Just to unpack closed-toe a little more, can you give us a little flavor on, you know, the drivers within that category? Is that the Boston just getting a lot more breadth in the assortment that's driving a lot of that, or are there other kind of, you know, that are kind of driving, give us a little more flavor of what's driving closed toe. And again, do you think that that could approach, you know, 40, 50% of the mix going forward? And lastly, what is the difference in ASP on average of closed toe versus sandal? Thanks, guys.

Hey, Randy, it's David. First off, you know, there's no copy and paste globally on closed toe. The beauty of the business is closed toe encompasses everything from clogs to boots and we're seeing positive momentum across every element of closed toe in the US specifically it has been driven by clogs the beauty of that is it's not just the Boston it's also the Tokyo there's a new clog called the new tree with a convertible strap that you may have seen out at retail that's selling very very well and the impact of clogs actually is uh even spilling over to our zermatt slipper which has been in the line for five to six years and because of the interest in clogs is now having its best season in in its entire history um obviously from an asp st clogs overall um as do all of clothes to have a higher asp than sandals in general I don't know what that exact dollar amount is, but clearly the mix certainly changes the ASP. Again, I think the velocity of it is the sell-throughs are much higher than they are across the total collection in anything that's closed-toe right now. I think Europe is seeing a bit more of a closed-toe shoe-and-boot reaction, so I'll pass this to Nico.

Thank you, David. Yeah, yes, indeed. So maybe you remember our Q1 last fiscal year, fiscal year 24, where we saw a very, very strong success of launched boot silhouettes. In fact, four out of top 10 in DTC, the top 10 sellers, were laced up shoes. And we launched the high wood and the press skirt. at a price point of 200 euro, above 200 euro. And those styles really performed very well. So as you can see, we are spearheading not just closed-toe, but also boots and lace-up shoes in our DTC business. And what we do is we take the great learnings and the great success into our B2B business. And autumn winter 24, the season that we are selling through now with our partners, was the first season where we doubled the order intake for laced up shoes. And for us, it was quite significant to do that because we shared the great success of our DTC and asked our partners to broaden the range with us and invest into that part of the collection. Now, the sell-through now of exactly that order intake is doing really positive, so we see a continuation of the trend of last Q1 with, again, lace-up shoes and boots really performing well and overperforming against the rest of the business.

Great. Can I ask one more follow-up, maybe more for Eric? In an effort to help us properly calibrate our thoughts between DTC and B2B, recognizing that in the first half of 24, DTC led B2B, but in the back half, B2B led DTC. In the 15% to 17% guide, can you just give us some, maybe qualify, do you think B2B is higher in growth than D2C, at least for the first half or for the whole year? Just give us any kind of flavor you can give us between the channels and how they should grow relative to the 15 to 17% either higher or lower would be super helpful thanks guys hey can you else we dropped out by chance yes we hear you sorry sorry it wasn't because of the question

So we don't break it down in detail, as you know, but it's a moderate growth in all areas. It's a balanced growth to whatever the demand is asking for. And as we have, I think, discussed in the past, the B2B business is as positive for us as B2C business margin-wise. And therefore, I would overall and for the full year say it's a moderate growth, it's a moderate plan with no specifics. And obviously, seasonality a bit as we have seen them in the quarters this year. But again, overall moderate on both sides. I don't know whether that's enough answer.

This is Megan. I just want to follow up there also. Just a reminder that 40% of our business is already D2C, which is a pretty sizable business in D2C. And we'll continue to grow both the D2C and the B2B business as we look forward into 2025. On the D2C side, I think we'll be looking at additional stores on the retail side, and that will be probably more toward the back half that you'll start to see a greater contribution on the D2C side versus B2B growth.

Thank you.

Thank you. The next question will be from Lorraine Hutchinson from Bank of America. Lorraine, your line is live.

Thank you. Good morning. I just wanted to step back and talk about the ATMA region over the longer term. What percentage of sales do you think it could grow to over time? And can you just talk about your progress on putting the distribution and partnerships in place for continued outsized growth?

Hello, this is Klaus.

I think we are planning to grow about 30%. share, so we are balancing out in the regions. That's the plan. In the growth cadence, we like to say that the APMA region should have a double speed of our mature markets. And can you repeat the second question, please?

I was just hoping for an update on your progress on building the partnerships and distribution that you need to continue that growth.

Okay, thank you. As you know, we signed up a partner for China. We are also very much focused on our D2C development right now, and you can see that we are almost doubling the business on our D2C. And partners for Southeast Asia, mainly a B2B section, very well prepared, and we are in context over here to open more stores. We are operating by ourselves now 25 stores. And in the B2B side, we have 256 stores. We added like 45 stores only this year. So going forward very well.

So I think it's important for you to understand, it's Oliver again, sorry, that the Abma region, we're not only focusing on China, okay? So we really try to control the growth in a mindful way and say, okay, double the speed compared to the rest of the world. That's a good speed for us. We try to establish a very strong Southeast Asian business. We have a very strong business in Australia, a strong business in Japan, where especially our own retail is catching up very, very positive and very, very good. And, of course, China has the main focus for a lot of investors. but we try to balance everything moving forward. So don't expect crazy stuff from us in these regions, because keep in mind, if political situation change, you will ask the questions exactly the other way around. So mindful way moving forward, double the speed. We grow in this region over 40%. So I would say that's a pretty nice speed in this area, But don't overwrite this. It's important, but it's more important to keep it balanced. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. The next question will be from Simeon Siegel from BMO Capital Markets. Simeon, your line is live.

Thanks. Hey, guys. Morning or good afternoon. I hope you and your families have a very happy holidays. Eric or Alexander, just as we think about the model that we can see from the outside, are you comfortable that we're past the restatements, regional, P&L, et cetera, and then just higher level? There's really great revenue, guys. Congrats. Strong brand resonance. Can you share some thoughts on how you're thinking about promotional environment at large, maybe with competition versus what you're seeing for you guys? And then just maybe speak to how you clear. So last chance on your site versus wholesale clearance. I know there's a breadth versus depth element there that we can see versus that you can see. So any color there. Promo environment clearance approaches when relevant. And then how you're thinking about the progression of gross margin next year in a context of lapping pass-a-lock, maybe when that becomes a good guide to gross margin. Thanks.

That sounded like more than one question, but thanks, Simeon. So let me start with your comment regarding the P&L. It's very clear it's not a restatement. It's a reclassification of internal logistic costs. which can be shown in sales and distribution and can be shown in Cox and some companies do it like this. So we sort of cleaned it up from 23 and now it's the majority of companies do it. And so it showed in our gross margin. So that's a reclass of internal logistic costs, non-cash impact, EBITDA as you have seen, also no impact. So I think that's important to see and to understand. And to come to your question, yes, we feel fine and, and we had the first year of being listed used to sort of look at all the details. And then if you see the quality of the numbers, uh, and where we came from as a family run company, I think we had a big improvement now and I hand over to David.

Yeah. Simeon. Hey, um, I, I think on the, uh, on the question about the general promotional environment, I think what you're seeing is this bifurcation out there. A lot is promoted, but the few things that people really demand that they're intentionally shopping for are selling through at full price. We're very fortunate that we are one of those brands. As you know, we manage scarcity with such a high level of discipline that the amount of hash, which is the industry term for broken sizes, at any given time is mathematically quite small. Having said that, when you have a very developed digital business where you do carry a broad assortment, you are going to see what may be more breadth, but certainly a very, very low depth in any given style. So specifically to the U.S., who I know you're referencing, with map pricing, we manage wholesale so tight our retailers experience in season well over 95% full price realization. On our own D2C business, which again is largely digital right now, it's over 90%. So you're going to see a bit more breadth, but certainly not any significant depth whatsoever.

That's really great and really helpful. And then just, Eric, any way to think about when Passavoc, as we've worked through that ramp and it starts becoming a benefit to the line items?

again this is alexander i will take that over um yeah thanks for that part uh overall um we are absolutely pleased with how well the expansion has gone so far um not only in our new factory in passable but also in the existing build out in gorlitz and in portugal so the expansionary steps we did in 23 and 24 have been the foundation of our unit growth i think that's important to mention in every single situation that it's not only pressure to margin it gives us the opportunity to substantially grow in units and this was clearly a drag especially in 24 as expected and communicated upfront this was a peak year of the margin pressure and With that transitionary year, we are now going into a 25 year where we will see a better absorption as discussed already, primarily in the back half of the year. And we will also confirm that we expect a full absorption of fixed costs in the third quarter of 26. Great.

Thanks a lot, guys. Best of luck for the year ahead and great job.

Thank you. The next question is coming from Mark Altrager from Baird. Mark, your line is live.

Thanks for taking my question and congrats on the strong quarter and year. I wanted to ask about pricing. It looks like price accounted for about half of the 8% ASP increase in 2024, you know, call it 4%. Is that a good way to think about 2025 as well? And a similar question on MIX. That was also a big driver. Should we expect much of a change there for 2025? Thank you.

Hey, Mark. This is Alexander. Thanks for the question. And you're absolutely right. So when you're looking into 2025, I think Nico mentioned also that we are expecting approximately two-thirds unit growth, approximately one-third in ASP growth. And yes, ASP is primarily driven by like-for-like pricing and product mix, with consumers continuously buying more into higher price points and premium products. We mentioned closed stores as an example here. So higher leather share, but also product embellishments are supporting this trend, and this will continue into the future. Retail will help on the channel expansion, but overall in 2025, we are not expecting a major influence on ASP from a channel mix.

Great.

Thank you.

Thank you. The next question will be from Sam Poser from Williams Trading.

Tommy your line is live thank you good morning everybody thank you for taking my question and happy holidays I just want to dig into the DTC business a little bit more especially in the Americas but in total when in the Americas the DTC business represents probably around 40 plus percent of the sales and of that 90% over 90% is digital Will most of the DTC growth that happens in fiscal 25 happen out of Asia and Europe, X the stores, and then those stores that open later drive incrementality? Is that the way to think about it?

Hello?

I'll take that one, I guess. Yeah, hi, Sam. It's Megan. You know, obviously we don't, we're not providing by channel, by region, but I think to get to your question, yes, you're right. On the DTC side, on the U.S., predominantly e-com, and I think that as we look to DTC growth in the U.S., a lot of the additional growth in DTC will be coming from the additional stores, and we will see DTC growth contribution coming from the other regions. In particular, we're seeing very strong B2C growth both on the digital side and on the retail side coming from the APMA region, and that will continue to drive B2C growth higher, particularly as we move into the lower part of this year and those stores and the digital channels continue to ramp there.

And what would you call a mature digital penetration, I guess, in total? you know, it's 40 plus percent mature. Is that like going to be a tough number to get ahead of higher than digitally? And you really just need these stores. You need to just open the stores and have them really start producing. And, and I guess over the longterm, you're going to open 30 plus stores this year in the longterm. How many stores do you foresee own stores? Do you foresee globally?

Sam, hey, it's David here. First off, we're going to increase our door count, physical doors, by 50% in 2025. So that's pretty aggressive as far as new door openings. I would say, and again, it's a little bit mathematical, it's a little bit anecdotal, but I would say once you get to a 40% digital penetration in a market, that becomes pretty much optimized. It doesn't mean it's not going to grow. It will grow in revenue dollars, but as far as share of business, it may be slightly above 40, about optimized where it is. And I think we've learned over the last few years from other brands, once you try to lean into one channel versus the other, it may not serve the purpose that you're seeking it to actually serve. So I think we have a pretty optimal balance around the world. It might play out a little different by region. It might play out a little different by quarter. But I would say that we have the most healthy balance in the market right now. And as we open more retail stores and more physical touch points with that brand, that's going to be purely incremental D2C growth on top of the digital growth that we will see.

Thanks, and a subtle dig to other companies. David, happy holidays again.

Thank you. The next question is coming from Janine Stichter from BTIG. Janine, your line is live.

Hi, thanks for taking my question. I just wanted to get more color on what you're seeing from a customer lens. Is there any change you're seeing in either repeat purchase behavior or a number of pairs owned? I'm also curious what you're seeing in terms of the customer demographic. Are you seeing a younger audience or just curious what you're seeing there? Thank you.

Hey, this is Nico. Thank you for your question. So in regards of repeat purchases, we do have a very strong buildup of our membership base, currently 8 million members. There you use your imagination how fast this can still grow. It's growing, has been growing 30% year on year, with already now members spending 30% than non-members. So what we also typically see with members is they sort of transcend into other categories with us. Let's say more expensive categories, but also newer categories such as shoes, lace-up shoes, in-sole business that is typically adopted much faster with members than with non-members. We've done a great job in becoming clearer on our member segments. So you'll see us becoming more personal in how we treat our members and more exclusive. We have a very, very large amount of product that is exclusively meant for members that is displayed online. And that also typically sells through much, much faster than the rest of the line. So yes, a very healthy growth and membership, a very healthy business with members, but yet to be grown significantly.

Great. Thank you for the color and best of luck.

Thank you. The next question will be from Jim Duffy from Stiefel. Jim, your line is live.

Thank you. I wanted to ask on cash flow and capital allocation. The one and a half times net leverage guide at the midpoint of adjusted EBITDA implies just modest improvement in the net debt. Can you talk about free cash flow objectives? You've given us CapEx. Is there some sort of offset to cash generation in the working capital lines? Or does that imply some use of cash such as share repurchases? Thanks.

Thank you. It's Eric. Happy to take over. Yes, we are comparatively cash rich, which shows the strength of our business. And we hit the target of below two times leverage, 1.8 end of the year. And the goal for next year is around 2%. Going forward, the plan is much the same as it was this year. First of all, invest in the business. That's always first priority. So if something is needed, if we think it helps the business, we will do it. And around 80 million is the plan for current year. Afterwards, continue to pay down our debt. We expect, as I said, 1.5 times leverage end of the year. Eventually pay off the U.S. term loan.

and everything after this will be a decision made by the board obviously but the strength of our business and the very strong cash flow conversion shows that we're on the right way eric at the um midpoint of the evita guide one and a half times net leverage guide implies like 980 million in net debt uh at year end that's just 25 million or so better than fiscal 24 year end, what are you thinking in terms of free cash flow? You've given us the CapEx. I'm curious, is there some sort of offset that's impeding the progress on the net debt?

calculation right you are correct of course we have to be be free on this and and we we just want to be capable of investing in whatever is needed either build up inventory or invest into the CapEx, yes. For me personally, U.S. term loan is the first priority because it's the most expensive one. It's around 170 million U.S. dollar. Plus, as you know, there's another Euro term loan debt. There's a bond and everything else will be decided by the board afterwards. Understood.

Thank you so much. Thank you. The next question will be from Erwin Ramberg from HSBC. Erwin, your line is live.

Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. Thanks for taking my question and congrats on a great year. I just wanted to come back on APAC to understand what are the P&L implications of APAC. Is it gross margin accretive? Is it operating margin dilutive? Um, and just, uh, maybe it's anecdotal, but, uh, moving from APMAT to APAC, is that linked to particular managers or particular synergies, um, by regrouping, uh, regions or countries, um, together in a different manner than, than in the past? Thank you.

Hey Erwin, this is Alexander. I'll take the first part and then, uh, hand over to Nico. So to keep it simple, on the margin side, with that share of business, of course, you don't get the full leverage if you compare that to a much more bigger business. But we have really nice price points in the region. Some markets are already quite developed, and we expect in the mid to long term, no margin pressure from making that region bigger. So it's definitely supporting that margin. But in some markets, to be fair, when starting that up and ramping, you don't have the full profitability in year one or year two, but this is fully built into our plan. Thank you, Alexander. Just on the segment change, yes, we decided to realign our segment structure into Americas, India, and APAC. Basically, the decision has been taken because we see structural similarities, but also operational advantages between Europe and Middle East Africa, but also India and APAC. So Asia Pacific with India stays under the leadership of Klaus Baumann in the new APAC segment, and I will take care responsibility of the EMEA segment. We've just started in Q1 to execute in this new segment formation and we'll provide all financials and we cast segment results with the next quarter's release in February.

Thank you. And just to check, I think you said China was a mid-teens contribution to APMAS sales. So that's about 2%. Is that mainland China or is that greater China?

This is great for China. Thank you.

Thank you. The next question will be from Jay Soul from UBS. Jay, your line is live.

Great. Thank you so much. You talked a lot about closed-toe shoes and some of the newer products. Can you just talk about your injection molded sandals business and how that performed in 4Q and what you expect to see in that business next year?

Hey Jay, this is Oliver. Um, you, you, you're talking about the pew, um, segment, the outdoor water ready sandals. Um, so we, we, we have, we are just, you know, working on this, on this new segment, actually it was invented to, to cover the more humidity tropical conditions around Southeast Asia and the out my region in total. Um, All of a sudden, in the U.S., the outdoor segment and in Europe, these styles perform pretty good. So it's just a new category that will be rolled out globally. There will be also coming up some collaboration styles and some special makeups in some areas where we push and introduce these new wearing occasions in the, let's say, soft hiking, outdoorish, water-ready environment. You may see some of it in REI in the U.S., or at Globetrotter and some other outdoor doors in Europe. So it's a very promising start for this new category, and that's why we invested in Pasewalk, you know, in this kind of manufacturing process, because technically-wise, it's a completely different setup than the classical acrobatics sandals.

Got it. Thank you so much.

Thank you. And the next question will be from Adrian Duverger from Goldman Sachs. Adrian, your line is live.

Hey, good morning. Good morning, and thank you for taking my question. I'll just stick to one. I'll just follow up on the manufacturing that you just mentioned. In terms of your investments and the factory expansion plans, how are they progressing versus your expectation, and how do you expect the additional supply to evolve over the next two to three years? Thank you very much.

Hey, Adrian.

I think we touched on that question earlier in the call, but let me just wrap up that here's everything on plan, not only in the new factory, also the other two we are building out. And this is not a plan which is done in six or 12 months. We started in 22, and this will last until 2016. especially building out gullets. This is absolutely on what we expected so far. The drag on margin is nothing what will continue in 2025 and 2026. So for now, all good here.

Thank you. And we have reached the end of the question and answer session. And this does conclude today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Have a wonderful day. Thank you for your participation.