Capital One Financial Corporation

Thank you for standing by. You're currently on hold for today's Capital One second quarter 2022 earnings call. At this time, we are still admitting additional participants and expect to be underway shortly. We do thank you for your patience and please continue to stand by. Please stand by. Good day everyone and welcome to the Capital One second quarter 2022 earnings conference call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speaker's remarks there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time simply press the star key followed by the digit 1 on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question please press the star key followed by the number two. Thank you. I would now like to turn the call over to Ms. Danielle Dietz, Managing Vice President of Global Finance. Please go ahead, ma'am.

Thank you very much, Melinda, and welcome everyone to Capital One's second quarter 2022 earnings conference call. As usual, we are webcasting live tonight over the Internet. To access the call, please log on to Capital One's website at CapitalOne.com and follow the links from there. In addition to the press release and financials, we have included a presentation summarizing our second quarter 2022 results. With me today are Mr. Richard Fairbank, Capital One's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, and Mr. Andrew Young, Capital One's Chief Financial Officer. Rich and Andrew will walk you through this presentation. To access a copy of the presentation and press release, please go to Capital One's website, click on Investors, then click on Quarterly Earnings Release. Please note that this presentation may contain forward-looking statements. Information regarding Capital One's financial performance and any forward-looking statements contained in today's discussion and the materials speak only as of the particular date or dates indicated in the materials. Capital One does not undertake any obligation to update or revise any of this information, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise. Numerous factors could cause our actual results to differ materially from those described in forward-looking statements. For more information on these factors, please see the section titled Forward-Looking Information in the earnings release presentation and the risk factors section in our annual and quarterly reports. both accessible at the Capital One website and filed with the SEC. Now I'll turn the call over to Andrew.

Thanks, Danielle, and good afternoon, everyone. I'll start on slide three of tonight's presentation. In the second quarter, Capital One earned $2 billion, or $4.96 per diluted common share. On a linked quarter basis, period end loans held for investment grew 6%, and average loans grew 4%, driven by growth across all of our segments. Revenue in the linked quarter increased 1%, or 3%, after accounting for the $192 million gain on sale recognized in the prior quarter. Non-interest expense grew 1% in the quarter, driven by an increase in marketing, which was partially offset by lower operating expenses. Provision expense in the quarter was $1.1 billion, driven mostly by net charge-offs of $845 million and a $200 million allowance bill. Turning to slide four, I will cover the changes in our allowance in greater detail. The total company's $200 million allowance bill in the quarter brings our allowance balance up 2% to $11.5 billion as of June 30th. Our total company coverage ratio decreased 15 basis points to 3.88%. The changes in allowance and coverage ratio varied by segment, which I'll cover on slide five. Across all our businesses, loan growth and a worsening economic outlook drove upward pressure on allowance. In our consumer banking segment, the allowance balance increased by $145 million. The coverage in consumer banking increased 14 basis points to 2.51%. In our commercial banking business, the allowance increased by $152 million. The coverage in commercial banking increased five basis points and now stands at 1.36%. In addition to the allowance billed, there was also $39 million of provision related to unfunded lending commitments. In our domestic card business, we released $128 million of allowance, despite the effects of the growth and worsening economic outlook I previously mentioned. We have seen some signs of gradual normalization in our card credit metrics, but so far the pace of that normalization has been slower than what we assumed when we set last quarter's allowance. The impact of this slower than assumed normalization more than offset the growth and worsening economic outlook leading to the allowance release. We continue to carry elevated levels of qualitative reserves for downside risks related to economic uncertainty. The coverage ratio for domestic card now stands at 6.82%. Turning to page six, I'll discuss liquidity. You can see our preliminary average liquidity coverage ratio during the second quarter was 144%, well above the 100% regulatory requirement. Total liquidity reserves declined $17 billion in the quarter as our liquidity normalizes towards pre-pandemic levels. Cash and cash equivalents declined about $5 billion and now stands at $22 billion. We also had a $6 billion decline in our securities portfolio driven by the combination of the mark from rising interest rates and the continued runoff of the outsized portfolio built during the pandemic. Turning to page seven, I'll cover our net interest margin. Net interest income in the quarter was $6.5 billion, up 13% from the year-ago quarter and up 2% from the sequential quarter. Our second quarter net interest margin was 6.54%, 65 basis points higher than the year-ago quarter and five basis points higher than the prior quarter. Relative to a year ago, the increase in NIM is largely driven by a balance sheet shift as we continued to deploy excess cash and securities into loan growth. The linked quarter increase in NIM was driven by an additional day to recognize revenue. Higher yields on assets in the quarter were offset by higher wholesale funding and deposit costs. Outside of quarterly day count, our NIM from here will largely be a function of the changes in our balance sheet mix, the impacts of interest rates beyond forwards, wholesale funding costs, and the impacts of competition on loan yields and deposit betas. Turning to slide eight, I will end by discussing our capital position. Our common equity Tier 1 capital ratio was 12.1% at the end of the second quarter, down about 60 basis points from the prior quarter. Net income in the quarter was more than offset by share repurchases and growth in risk-weighted assets. We continue to estimate that our long-term CET1 capital need is around 11%. In the quarter, the pace of our repurchases slowed to about $2 billion. The pace of any future repurchases will be driven by a number of factors, including our actual and forecasted capital, earnings, growth, economic conditions, and market dynamics. With that, I will turn the call over to Rich. Rich?

Thank you, Andrew, and good evening, everyone. I'll begin on slide 10 with second quarter results in our credit card business. Year-over-year growth in purchase volume and loans coupled with strong revenue margin drove an increase in revenue compared to the second quarter of 2021. Credit card segment results are largely a function of our domestic card results, which are shown on slide 11. Our domestic card business posted another quarter of strong year-over-year growth in every top-line method. Purchase volume for the second quarter was up 18% year-over-year and up 48% compared to the second quarter of 2019. Ending loan balances increased $19.7 billion, or about 21% year-over-year. Ending loans grew 6% from the sequential quarter. And revenue was up 21% year over year, driven by the growth in purchase volume and loans, as well as strong revenue margins. Strong credit results continued in the quarter. Both the charge-off rate and the delinquency rate continued to gradually normalize, but remain well below pre-pandemic levels. The domestic card charge-off rate for the quarter was 2.26%. a two basis point improvement year over year. The 30 plus delinquency rate at quarter end was 2.35%, 67 basis points above the prior year. On a linked quarter basis, the charge off rate was up 14 basis points, roughly in line with normal seasonal patterns. The delinquency rate was up three basis points from the linked quarter, which we, when we typically see modest seasonal improvement. Non-interest expense was up 28% from the second quarter of 2021, driven by an increase in marketing. Total company marketing expense was about $1 billion in the quarter. Our choices in domestic card marketing are the biggest, but not the only driver of total company marketing trends. The primary non-card driver of increased marketing is in our consumer banking business, where we're marketing to drive deposit growth and build customer franchise in our digital-first national banking strategy. In our domestic card business, we continue to see opportunities to book accounts and loans that can generate resilient and attractive returns And we continue to lean into marketing to drive growth and build a franchise across our domestic card businesses. We're keeping a close eye on competitor actions and potential marketplace risk. And as always, we underwrite to a worsening scenario even as we lean into marketing. We're seeing the success of our marketing in strong growth in purchase volume, new accounts, and loans across our domestic card business. And we continue to gain traction in our decade-long focus on heavy spenders. In the second quarter, heavy spender marketing includes increased early spend bonuses driven by strong first quarter account growth and spending, as well as investments in franchise enhancements like our travel portal and airport lounges. As a result of our marketing, we posted strong growth in heavy spender accounts and strong engagement and spend behaviors with new and existing customers. We're gaining share and building a long-term franchise with heavy spenders at the top of the market. Pulling up, our heavy spender franchise has a different economic mix than some of our other card businesses. It has significantly higher upfront costs of brand building, marketing, and promotions, and investments in high-end experiences. However, the long-term economics are compelling, and as our heavy spender franchise has grown significantly in recent years, its impact has quietly and gradually changed several domestic card metrics and financial results. Heavy spender credit losses are low, which lowers overall domestic card loss rates, all other things being equal. Naturally high heavy spender payment behavior, are a key driver of our long-term trend of increasing domestic card payment rates, and high payment rates go hand in hand with strong credit performance. Heavy spender attrition is very low, and that's been a factor in our strong domestic card loan growth. Heavy spenders have a particularly large impact on increasing purchase volume and have been a major driver of strong domestic card purchase volume growth that has generally exceeded loan growth over time. Spend velocity has driven increases in net interchange revenue in absolute terms and as a percentage of total revenue. And these interchange fee revenue annuities are strong and sustained over very long-term customer relationships. Our heavy spender franchise generates financial results that are attractive, less volatile, and very resilient. As a result, the heavy spender business requires less capital and delivers strong long-term returns on capital. Pulling way up, our 10-year quest to build our heavy spender franchise has brought with it significantly increased levels of marketing, but the sustained revenue, credit, resilience, and capital benefits of this enduring franchise are compelling and they're growing. Slide 12 shows second quarter results for our consumer banking business. In the second quarter, choices we made in our auto business impacted several consumer banking trends. We pulled back on growth in auto in response to competitive pricing dynamics. As you'd expect, many auto lenders have raised pricing as rising interest rates drove higher marginal funding costs. But some others, have kept pricing relatively flat. These competitors have gained market share and pressured industry margins. We chose to pull back on auto originations, which declined 20% year over year and 12% from the linked quarter. As we pulled back on originations, the year over year growth of ending loans in the consumer banking business decelerated to 9% in the second quarter. On a linked quarter basis, ending loans were up one percent second quarter ending deposits in the consumer bank were up two percent year over year aided in part by the transfer of a small portfolio of deposits from our commercial bank consumer banking uh deposits declined one percent from the sequential quarter consumer banking revenue was essentially flat compared to the prior year quarter as growth in auto loans was offset by the effects of our decision to completely eliminate overdraft fees and the year-over-year decline in auto margins. Auto margin compression was primarily driven by the increase in our marginal funding costs resulting from rapid interest rate increases and the aggressive competitor pricing that I just discussed. Non-interest expense was up 15% compared to the second quarter of 2021, driven by the increased marketing for our digital national bank and continuing investments in the digital capabilities of our auto and retail banking businesses. Second quarter provision for credit losses swung from a net benefit of $306 million in the second quarter of 2021 to a net expense of $281 million. We added to the allowance for credit losses in our auto business in the quarter compared to an allowance release in the year-ago quarter. The auto charge-off rate and delinquency rate continue to gradually normalize, but we remain well below pre-pandemic levels. The charge-off rate for the second quarter was 0.61%, up 73 basis points from the unsustainably low, in fact, negative quarterly charge off rate a year ago. The 30 plus delinquency rate was 4.47%, up 121 basis points year over year. On a linked quarter basis, the charge off rate was down five basis points and the 30 plus delinquency rate was up 62 basis points. Slide 13 shows second quarter results for our commercial banking business, which delivered strong growth in loans and revenue in the quarter. Second quarter ending loan balances were up 9% from the sequential quarter. Average loans increased 5%. Growth in selected industry specialties drove our growth. Ending deposits were down 14% from the first quarter and down 10% year over year, driven in part by the transfer of a small portfolio of deposits to our retail bank that I mentioned a few moments ago, as well as rate-driven runoff as some customers withdrew deposits in search of higher returns. In the second quarter, deposit balances were also impacted by seasonal outflows. Second quarter revenue was up 3% from the linked quarter and 26% from the prior year quarter. Non-interest expense was down modestly from the linked quarter and up 16% year over year. Provision for credit losses increased $214 million from the first quarter, largely driven by a build in the allowance for credit losses. Commercial banking credit remained strong in the second quarter. The commercial banking annualized charge-off rate was 14 basis points. The criticized performing loan rate was 5.3%, and the criticized non-performing loan rate was 0.7%. In closing, we continued to drive good growth in card revenue, purchase volume, and loans in the second quarter. Consumer banking loan growth continued, albeit at a slower pace, and our commercial banking business posted strong growth in loans and revenue. Credit results remain strong across our businesses, with charge-off rates and delinquency rates well below pre-pandemic levels, even as credit continues to gradually normalize. And we continue to return capital to our shareholders. For more than three decades, we have hardwired resilience into every underwriting and growth choice we make in good times and bad. And we've steadfastly focused on building an enduring franchise. Sticking to these core tenets, we've demonstrated resilience through several cycles. We've been in a strong position to seize opportunities as markets evolved and as cycles played out. And we've delivered significant value over the long term. And we're living by these same core tenets today. We continue to see opportunities to lean into marketing and resilient asset growth that can deliver sustained revenue annuities long after the normalization trends and cyclical credit pressures play out. We're confident in the choices we're making. As we continue to closely monitor and assess competitive dynamics and increasing economic uncertainty, our credit results remain strong. we're staying focused on the most resilient businesses and sub-segments. And we're continuing to hone the proprietary underwriting and product structures that have driven our resilience through prior cycles. All of these growth and credit risk management choices are enhanced by our technology transformation. We're managing costs tightly, even as we continue to invest in transforming our technology and digital capabilities that are the engine of future growth and efficiency. While the imperatives of marketplace opportunities and risks impact the timing, we remain focused on delivering operating leverage over the long term, powered by growth and digital productivity gains. And we're managing capital prudently to put ourselves in a strong position to weather a broad range of possible economic scenarios and to emerge in a strong position to capitalize on opportunities that are often generated as cycles play out. Pulling way up, we believe that our longstanding core tenants and the choices they drive today are putting us in a strong position to continue to deliver resilience and compelling long-term shareholder value as the sweeping digital transformation of banking continues. And now we'll be happy to answer your questions. Danielle?

Thanks, Rich. We will now start the Q&A session. As a courtesy to other investors and analysts who may wish to ask a question, please limit yourself to one question plus a single follow-up question. If you have any follow-up questions after the Q&A session, the investor relations team will be available after the call. Melinda, please start the Q&A session.

Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please signal by pressing star one on your telephone keypad. If you are using a speakerphone, please make sure your mute function is turned off to allow your signal to reach our equipment. Once again, that is star one to ask a question. And we'll go first to Ryan Nash of Goldman Sachs.

Hey, good evening, everyone.

Good evening, Ryan.

Rich, maybe just to start off on marketing, which was up again sequentially, have we seen the peak impacts of the early bonuses? And maybe just more broadly, are you guys still leaning in? And maybe you could just talk about the decision in the context of where we are in the economy with inflation, and maybe are you pulling back in any pockets just given what's going on across the customer base?

Ryan, we, you know, we, on the early bonuses, I mean, that's really tied to, you know, how hard we lean into VentureX, for example. I mean, we have early spend bonuses pretty much across our rewards business. So let me separate a little bit. So we have the launch of VentureX. And some companies launches are sort of, you know, a quarter long kind of thing. We continue to lean into that. You've seen our national advertising continue on that. So, um, you know, the, the early spend bonuses, uh, continue as part of that. Uh, and then also their early spend bonuses, uh, at a, at a, you know, a stable rate, uh, for the, um, some of our other rewards products as well. Um, you know, with respect to the economy, we, you know, it's not lost on us that there's a lot of noise out there in the economy. And we, you know, every day we talk about this and, um, you know, there's, there's always uncertainty. There's probably, I think more uncertainty, you know, at the moment than probably on average. And that's not lost on us. Uh, you know, we, so, we don't make a top of the house decision that says we're going to spend, you know, this much on marketing because these decisions are, uh, very, um, you know, decisions at the margin, you know, based on models and, and, uh, estimated loss rates and, and putting resilience factors in there and response rates and a lot of things. There has been some trimming around the edges. in card quite a bit more so in auto by the way as I talked about just a few minutes ago but you know staying with card for a minute there there has been some trimming around the edges but but generally you know the kind of core target segments that we've been going after we are continuing to feel good about and lean into so I think your net impression should be that while we have a very watchful eye on the economy and, and obsessed about it every day, uh, you know, our underwriting decisions, um, you know, underwrite, uh, systematically at Capital One, we underwrite to a worsening scenario. And so, um, you know, we feel good about our originations and, um, But one thing about our tech transformation that has really been good also is it allows us to move and adapt much more quickly. In companies, and frankly, in some of our past years, when we decided to turn, it sometimes took quite a bit of time to move the whole machine. We've been able to create a much more adaptive and responsive infrastructure at Capital One. And so that's also helpful in a time of uncertainty. But, you know, net-net, we feel good about the opportunities, and we're leaning into them.

Next question, please. Thank you. Next we'll hear from Kevin Barker of Piper Sandler.

Thank you very much. Could you, you know, further discuss some of the things that you're seeing on the auto sector, just given – Where it's been throughout 2021 where we saw, you know, really good performance, and then now it just seems like the combination of rising delinquency rates, unresponsive yields, and just, you know, some softening in used car prices are really impacted. Can you just give us an outlook of what your expectations are and how Capital One is going to react through this year and potentially in a recessionary environment in 2023? Thank you.

Rich, I think you need to unmute yourself.

Oh, sorry.

Sorry. Kevin, thank you. The, the auto business is one that, I mean, we're still, you know, we still see significant opportunity in the auto business, but of course what we always share with investors is how we're feeling, you know, at the moment and at the margin. So the, the, the The biggest at the moment thing that we wanted to share with you is how the competitive environment feels. And, you know, we've been saying for some time that the low charge-offs, we worry that, you know, too long of a period of low charge-offs and too long of a period of, in many ways, unsustainably high used car prices can affect dull the senses of players in the auto industry and, and cause a weakening in underwriting. You know, we haven't really seen that. That's not the primary story that we see. We certainly are on the lookout for that. The story's really been more hijacked, if you will, by what's happened with inflation and the significant increase in, you know, for, for, you know, in, for companies and in, in, you know, cost of funds and most auto players and certainly, uh, the, the money center in particular have, you know, moved up their pricing very consistently and responsibly to the increases in, um, you know, the underlying, um, cost of, uh, funds in the economy. And what is striking is that some competition has not. There are a few large players whose movement in pricing is well behind that. And then you have the credit unions who have, I think, a very different kind of business model and a different way to calculate what their funding cost is. The credit unions have really not not moved at all in terms of their pricing and they've had actually a very significant increase in market share. So we, you know, we are, we continue to be very dedicated to the auto business. We have relationships with dealers. We're not, this is not like a huge pullback, but what we're doing at the margin is with the, tighter margins that now at least temporarily exist in the business for us that has led us to trim around the edges. That's, I think, the biggest story that we would say in auto. The other thing is used car pricing. Let's talk just a little bit about that, Kevin. Vehicle values remain strikingly high and obviously well above pre-pandemic levels. And supply constraints remain the biggest factor supporting high vehicle values. And everything that we see suggests vehicle production will remain constrained in the near term. And even when production normalizes, I think it will take time for dealers to rebuild their inventories. So probably the nearer term outlook. you know, is pretty good with respect to used car values. But if I pull up, you know, a concern that I've often voiced is, you know, from an underwriting point of view, what really matters is not the absolute level of collateral values, but the relative value of collateral values versus the underwriting assumptions that a lender made. And so we assume that significant declines in collateral values in our underwriting. But we have a watchful eye on an industry that for quite some time now has been hopefully not getting used to the used car prices that are at record levels versus anything we've seen in the past. So I think the auto Opportunity continues to be a significant one for Capital One, but particularly driven by pricing, which may, by the way, ameliorate for certainly everyone except the credit unions in a relatively short period of time. But until then, we will continue to be pretty tight around the edges, and we wanted to share that with you.

Next we'll hear from Bill Karkash of Wolf Research.

Thank you. Good evening. Rich, Capital One has long been known for its rich information-based analytics. How are you thinking about the risk that the strength we're seeing in the consumer and labor markets is in and of itself inflationary and could lead the Fed to have to do more? And since the impact of Fed hikes tends to be lagged. Unemployment tends to continue to increase well after peak Fed funds. Maybe, can you talk a little bit about how this dynamic feeds into costs underwriting and reserving models?

Okay. So, well, thanks.

Let's just kind of pull up and talk about inflation. You know, we haven't seen, in sustained inflation in the U S in many decades, but you know, it's been running above 5% for over a year now. And it reached, I think 9.1% in June and producer prices are increasing even faster. And of course the fed has started raising rates in response and the market, uh, expects further increases. So what I want to do is, is maybe, uh, uh list some of the potential impacts to our business of sustained inflation inflation and it's mostly negatives so if the economy suffers as a result of efforts to slow inflation we will certainly feel that and the biggest way that we would feel that would be in uh you know consumer uh credit losses um Consumers also were already starting to feel the impact of a price inflation impact, uh, you know, outpacing wage growth also in our lending business. Um, you know, higher cost of funds could put pressure on our margins, especially if lenders don't adjust pricing in response. And we're already seeing that in the auto business, by the way, in the card business, just as a comparison, I've been struck by generally the responsiveness of the pricing in the card business to be responsively adaptive to interest rates. I mean, it's a variable rate product, but also just in terms of the offered rate by competitors, that seems to have moved much more dynamically than what we've seen selectively in auto. You know, then, you know, other things about the impact of interest rate increases. Let me think. We've got the... You know, you can sometimes see lower demand for credit products just because headline pricing, you know, seems higher even if real pricing isn't. And, you know, and in our underwriting... Well, let me just say one thing, and you... You put your finger on it. Well, a striking thing right now is how low the unemployment rate is. And we have certainly seen in our modeling of credit over all the decades we've been doing this at Capital One. From a macroeconomic point of view, the biggest direct driver of credit losses is unemployment. And So, you know, we start in a very strong position now, but to your point, you know, there's irony in the strength of this position and it could contribute to some of the effects you identified. I do want to also just, while we're on the subject of inflation though, just highlight a few favorable effects of inflation as well. existing debt levels will decrease in real terms in a period of sustained inflation high vehicle values which support auto credit may be more sustainable in a high inflation environment but you know in total i think the effects tilt definitely in the negative direction so you know it's a it's a tough thing to model collectively all these things but what we do is uh We start with sort of a general theory of how this stuff works. We try to incorporate it into the decision-making that we do, and then like a hawk, we look for these various effects to happen and are prepared to be responsive. In fact, just the one last thing I want to say is I've always felt that It's very hard to predict economic cycles. I don't think Capital One is in a better position than anyone else to predict economic cycles. Sometimes you've seen us weigh in in predicting credit cycles, which can be correlated, but not the same thing as that. But the most important thing, what I take away from years of doing this is it's very hard to predict these cycles. The key thing is to underwrite, to understand. a resilience level to make it very successfully through cycles, and that's been a cornerstone of our strategy actually since the founding day of Capital One.

That's super helpful, Rich. Thank you for taking my question. I'll let others jump in. Thanks.

Great. Next question, please.

Our next question comes from Rick Shane with J.P. Morgan.

Thanks, everybody, for taking my question. Hey, Rich, when I sort of piece together everything that I'm hearing and looking at the numbers, you know, if we particularly focus on the growth and the reserve movements at the consumer lending business, the credit card business, and the commercial lending business, it kind of feels like you are diverging in your outlook in terms of the credit card business outperforming the other businesses likely from a perspective. Is that because of competitive pressures or is there something underlying that you're seeing that would cause that divergence?

Rick, I don't know if we explicitly run around with a – I wouldn't say our view is that stark as you say it, but I think that we certainly feel the most bullish about the card business. Let's talk about why for a second. First of all, just as a business and with the business model Capital One has, with the resilience it's shown – through several downturns now and the power of leveraging data and analytics and mass customization to that business, I think that we feel particularly high level of resilience in that business and that has been demonstrated in the past. And if anything, I think the technology transformation and some of the continued choices we've made like dialing back from high balance revolvers and other things has, and as I said, the whole heavy spender push, I think, put Capital One in actually an even stronger position from a resilience point of view. Also, in terms of what we see going on with the, you know, in the business, there is normalization, but it is really quite gradual. By the way, the normalization is gradual across all of our businesses. But I want to point out just a bit of a math point in auto, for example. Auto is normalizing gradually, so is card. And the front book with respect to auto and card, which are both normalizing faster than the back book. By the way, I've seen that universally. Whenever there's normalization, one always sees it more in the front book than in seasoned back books. But if you think about auto as an average life of like two years, and credit card lasts much longer than that, and so as there's front book normalization the replacement speed in the portfolio in auto is much faster than in card so even for the same amount of normalization in those two businesses in say the front book you're going to get uh just mathematically faster normalization in auto so it is our expectation it would be surprising to us if that weren't the case, more just because of the math of replacement of a, you know, more rapidly turning over portfolio. So, you know, we certainly, card is the business we're most bullish about. It's the one that we're leaning hardest into. And you'll notice our story here. We're not, our story is not a universal one that says, You know, I know there's a lot of uncertainty out there, but we feel great about growth and we're leaning into it everywhere. You can see an example of what you've seen over the years of how Capital One works. Everything is choices that is made at the margin locally. I mean, you know, in various businesses and the fact that in auto, we're pulling back pretty significantly as we've talked about while leaning pretty hard into card and certain parts of commercial. is a window into that very phenomenon.

Rich, thank you very much.

Thank you.

Rick, did you have a follow-up question? Okay, we'll go to the next question, please, Melinda.

Thank you. Next, we'll hear from Sanjay Sakrani from KBW.

Thanks. Question for Andrew. Could you just talk about how you see the NIM progressing from here? Obviously, the rate outlook suggests more rates than last quarter. Maybe you could just talk about how you're seeing deposit betas progress and sort of how that plays through the NIM.

Sure, Sanjay. Why don't I start with beta and just give a little bit of detail there and then feather it into the broader NIM question you asked, and so when you look at our deposits, roughly 15% are a combination of commercial and brokered, which have higher betas, but really the 800-pound gorilla is something like 85% of the deposits that are in retail, so I'll focus mostly there. And I think looking back, on history as a guide is a bit of a challenge in this cycle. So we've already seen 150 BIPs have moved in the first six months. We're expecting another 200 or so over the next six. And in the last rising cycle, it took three and a half years to to just get to 200 in that first year. We moved 50 in total versus the 350 we might see this year. And so I share that context to say the faster and larger set of moves coupled with quantitative tightening and the possibility of some competitors being a bit more aggressive to fund their loan growth, all will play into how competitors behave and the overall level of deposits And so if I look at the last rising cycle, we were at something like 40. And the last falling cycle, we were around 50. But given the factors that I described a moment ago, it's hard to really pinpoint exactly what's going to transpire looking ahead. But I would think our cumulative beta could be around or slightly above the last rising cycle. And so in line with what you've seen historically, beta moves pretty slowly in the beginning to the first set of hikes. And so this quarter you saw that we were high single digits, but the planned rate hikes for the second half of the year are likely going to pressure that beta up. And so when I take that and factor it into our NIM, you know, outside obviously of the quarterly day count effects, The tailwinds to our NIM are going to be the asset mix moving towards higher yielding assets like card. And what we saw in this quarter, by the way, ending card loans grew faster than average. So the more that card is growing relative to other asset classes and the cash and investment portfolio, and then just the broader asset yield increases from the higher interest rates. Those are things that are going to be tailwinds. The headwinds are going to be the deposit costs, not only from the rising deposit betas that I just described, but also wholesale funding costs to the extent that we do more of that and depending on credit spreads in the marketplace. But there isn't one dominant force in those factors from where we stand today. So I think they're all going to be pushing against one another, and we're going to see where that nets out in the coming quarters.

Just a follow-up question for Rich. Obviously, there's been a massive dislocation in the fintech space from a valuation standpoint. I'm curious if you think that presents opportunities for M&A for Capital One.

Thanks. Thanks, Sanjay. You know, Capital One, we've said for a number of years that unlike most banks, we're not on a quest to go buy other banks and build our national banking franchise that way. So and that really where we would do acquisitions, it would really be of either basically of tech companies themselves that bring a tech capability or fintechs that bring a tech-based capability right in our business sweet spot. So we have, for that reason plus our great interest in learning from fintechs, we have been very keen observers of that marketplace. You haven't seen much in the way of acquisitions from Capital One. because of the breathtaking pricing that fintechs have had. But certainly, to your point, as the pricing has crashed in that marketplace, we continue to watch the market carefully. And our strategy remains the same, that we believe that Capital One is kind of an ideal buyer for fintechs because we have a modern tech stack and we built a company that feels very much like a tech company. And I think, um, you know, it's very well suited to acquire and assimilate and, you know, provide opportunity to the talent that comes in a tech acquisition. So that's sort of the principle behind it. Um, so we continue to look in the marketplace, um, and, uh, um, you know, that's the primary acquisition interest that Capital One has, which is kind of different from, I think, most banking institutions.

Great. Next question, please.

Thank you. Next, we'll hear from Don Fandetti of Wells Fargo.

Hi, Richard. I was wondering if you could maybe talk about where you see more downside surprise risk on the credit spectrum. You know, is it the lower end consumer or is it the affluent heavy spender? And I guess on the low end, you know, can consumers really weather this strong inflation in particular if unemployment softens a little bit?

Uh, so, uh, Don, um, Thank you for the, you know, let's start by just talking about the consumer. Certainly, I'm certainly struck by the starting point of where the consumer is. Because the U.S. consumer remains quite healthy. We see sustained improvements in consumer balance sheets coming out of the pandemic. Let's see, debt servicing burdens remain near like multi-decade lows. The savings rate has dipped below pre-pandemic levels over the past few months, but cumulative savings over the last two years remain a significant positive still for consumers on average. We see higher bank account balances and higher household net worth across the income spectrum. Labor market demand remains exceptionally strong with record numbers of job openings and solid jobs. wage growth. And in our own portfolio, we see continuing strength in our delinquency roll rates and recovery rates. Despite signs of credit normalization, our credit metrics remain strikingly strong by any standard, any historical standard. So that is the context that we see. But to your point, The big headwinds for consumers are price inflation and higher interest rates. And inflation could erode the excess savings consumers accumulated through the pandemic, especially if price increases continue to run ahead of wage growth. Higher interest rates could push up debt servicing burdens, although this effect is muted by the fact that most existing household debt is in fixed rate mortgages and auto loans. I'm struck by the strong starting point for consumers as we look into the potential, the headwinds of inflation and more economic trouble. And I would contrast this, of course, to the Great Recession or the global financial crisis, where the consumer was in a much weaker position going into that. Now, the strength of the consumer is pretty much across the board, across the, you know, from the top of the market into subprime. And, you know, so I think the thing most striking is how sort of universal it is. But it is also the case that normalization is a bit more pronounced in subprime than it is higher in the market. But these and these populations, though, also improved more and more quickly earlier in the pandemic. So I think these trends shouldn't be surprising. So, you know, I think certainly now FICO score and income are not the same thing. A lot of times people tend to, you know, state them in the same breath. Our subprime business is definitionally about people with FICO scores below a certain level. But I think that, you know, the consumer starts in a strong place, then we should probably expect normalization to be a little faster on the lower end. And, you know, interestingly, if you switch to kind of income, which, you know, is a different cut than FICO, certainly, and income, I'm struck by the fact that consumers, the wage growth for the lower income consumers is, they're kind of the one category, the lower income consumers where their wage growth has been keeping up with inflation, but that won't necessarily continue, but that's also a position of strength. But pulling way up, I think we could see normalization a little faster in subprime. I think, in fact, we already can see very modestly that effect. But of course, in our underwriting and the whole business model of Capital One, that's also where we have built in kind of the biggest buffers of resilience. So we feel good about that part of the marketplace. We feel good really across the credit spectrum and continue to lean in to our marketing opportunity. Got it. All set. Thank you.

All right. Next question, please.

Our next question comes from Moshi Orenbush with Credit Suisse.

Great, thanks. Rich, you had mentioned that, you know, that you saw good kind of increases in prices for new accounts across the spectrum. But at the same time, I guess, you know, rewards and upfront bonuses have also been very high. If you could just talk about how you're seeing the kind of competitive environment, particularly for, you know, the higher end consumer where you're spending a lot of that effort.

Yeah, so, you know, competition, in the reward space is I'd say more intense than pre pandemic, a bit more intense than pre pandemic levels, but largely unchanged in recent quarters. So early spend bonuses in points offers were slightly more aggressive than in the first quarter. And we continue to see certain offers come in and out of market. Um, cash early spend bonuses are higher now than pre-pandemic, but have been relatively stable at these elevated levels since basically mid last year. And then if we look at the baseline rewards earn rates, particularly in the cashback space, they overall were probably more aggressive in the middle of 2021 as new products were being introduced, but have been relatively calm since. Now, we feel great about our flagship products. We continue to be very pleased by consumers' response and engagement with them. We're very pleased with the launch of our VentureX card. But I think if I pull way up, Mimosa, one of the things that I – so deeply believe and have experienced is that winning in the heavy spender space, I think it requires good products, but you can't win with good products. It takes a lot more than that. And, you know, the customer experience, specifically the digital experience, the brand, the a lot of experiential things that are, that are sort of way beyond the product are, are part of the whole package. And what we have said, this is why we've been saying for years now that winning at the top of the market is not an in and out thing. It is a matter of choosing as a few players have done capital one being one of them that, you know, that's, that's where we're going and we're going to continue to lean into that. And I have been struck by the, sustainable success that we've been generating and, uh, um, you know, and, and also the marketplace while very intense, hasn't tipped over to being unreasonable or irrational. So it's very competitive, but, um, you know, I continue to, uh, really like our opportunity in that space.

maybe just as a follow-up, you know, the yield for the last four quarters in your card business has been pretty flat both, you know, the yield on the loans up a little bit this quarter, I guess, with the rate increases that you talked about. But what is it really going to take to get that to be a higher number? Are you going to see more revolving from some of your high-end consumers? Is it, you know, What is it going to do to get that level of revenue growth and profitability enhanced?

Hey, Mocha, it's Andrew. I think if you put the card yield in the context of a longer-term history, looking a year ago, it's up 100 basis points. And that's really been a shift to a higher mix of assets in our branded book, which is both growth of existing customers and the success we're seeing in the originations that Rich talked about. And as we sit here today and looking over the last few quarters, we're also seeing a modest uptick in fees from the very low levels of uh, last year. Um, and so driven by the, the delinquencies that, uh, have, have ticked up very gradually year over year. But, you know, I think having a, a, uh, a yield that, that these levels, um, is, uh, you know, something that has, uh, has sustained, but, uh, to your point of how can we, we drive it up. I think we're seeing a, uh, an impact from rate changes that's been a bit of a tailwind on the yield side, but clearly that comes with a funding cost that ultimately will probably leave margin much closer to flats. Thanks very much.

Next question, please. Our next question comes from Aaron Saganovich of Citi.

Sorry. Thanks for the question. I just wanted to follow up on that last point. You're talking about the benefits of some of these super prime spenders. And I guess one of the aspects that's, I guess, less challenging or less beneficial is that you're not really revolving or they don't tend to revolve nearly as much because that spend velocity is so high and they pay down each month. As you think about that customer base growing over time, would that just have a natural kind of downward pressure on your domestic card yield?

Well, Aaron, it depends a bit on the degree to which they're revolving versus just pure transacting. But if they're transacting, they're bringing quite a bit of interchange and relatively low outstandings. over time, so that very well could prove to be a net positive and not create the downward pressure that you just described, and not to mention the fact that in doing so, it creates less of a capital need, and so it ends up being, over time, at least a pretty capital-efficient business, which is one of the reasons why we've been on this decade-long journey to build that franchise. Okay, got it.

And then just on the deposit side, you had a modest decline kind of seasonal. I'm assuming that had to do with taxes. You haven't really, to your benefit, I guess, not been a leader in terms of pricing on the online side. Are you seeing kind of quarter date an increase in deposits, or do you expect that to be a little bit slower growth as we see the rate hikes increase?

Well, I'm not going to comment specifically on what we're seeing so far this quarter, but let's take a step back and think about the industry context and then talk a little bit about our strategy there. As you look at the industry, you brought up, at least in retail, the tax outflow phenomenon that happened in the second quarter, and we certainly felt a little bit of that. But where industry deposit balances go from here, first thing is at least history, whether it repeats itself, but would indicate that the rate of deposit growth drops in rising rate environment. And in this particular cycle, the Fed fund rates, as I mentioned to Sanjay's question, are both larger and faster than previous ones, and the Fed's Brett KenCairn, Shrinking its its balance sheet, so you know who knows my guess is as good as yours, but I think we could see a scenario where industry wide deposits are flattish to down in the near term. And so what we choose to do there is really trying to optimize our balance sheet across a number of different dynamics of liquidity and funding and tenor and pricing. And so we feel like we're in a great position to compete in that industry backdrop with simple, straightforward, competitive products that have a great user experience, but where our deposits ultimately go from here in the context of that industry will be a function of our deposit needs and competitive dynamics.

Aaron, let me just add that this is, I want to underscore the strategy that Capital One has had for years now, which is we are building a national bank through not by just acquiring branches on every corner across the United States, nor by just having a national digital bank, but really building a, in a sense, full-service digital bank that can provide almost everything that you can get in a local branch to provide it nationally, excuse me, digitally. And that is part of our strategy to build primary banking relationships that are digital first and digitally originated. And it's all part of a larger strategy to build a consumer banking franchise that is not about just you know, the highest rate paid, but really about, you know, high quality products, a great customer experience and a full service set of capabilities where people can really move their full banking relationship and then also, you know, have savings deposits there. And, you know, and one of the, one of my comments that I made about, you know, our, our marketing strategy, levels, which everybody notices are high, is one thing we've continued to invest in over time is Capital One as a company that doesn't have branches on every corner. We've got branches on some corners, but a greater proportion of our expenditures are on the marketing side, are on the brand building side, and to some extent on the tech side as well. But it is very much in service of building a franchise of a brand and a franchise that enables us to dynamically grow our deposits at very appropriate blended pricing and build long-term loyal banking relationships. And we're very pleased with the success we've had in that, but we continue to invest very much in that.

Next question, please.

Moving on to Betsy Grasick of Morgan Stanley.

Hi, good evening.

Good evening, Betsy.

Andrew, I just wanted to double-click on the comments that you were making around the high transactors having lower capital intensity, and that's a function of them just being higher credit quality, shorter duration on the book. Is that basically what it's about or is there something more there?

No, it's really just the lost content of that book, Betsy.

Yeah, okay. And then when you were going through the deck on the capital slide, I think you mentioned 11% is your CET1 target. And so given that there is such demand for spend and borrow right now, should we take your comments to mean that it's unlikely that you'll be doing buybacks in the near future while this high loan growth period is upon us?

Just to repeat a little bit, Betsy, of what I shared in my prepared remarks, there's just a number of factors to consider, just our forecasted level of capital and earnings and growth. But we need to put those things in the context with a particular eye to the error bars around those estimates. What I was mostly trying to highlight is, if you look back a year ago, we were at 14.5% CET1. That's down to 12.1% this quarter. And so we're getting much closer to that 11% level. And at a time when there are a number of uncertainties, given the economic environment and the growth opportunities, those error bars just start to matter more. And so we slow down a bit. in the second quarter, but as always is the case, managing capital both conservatively and efficiently is top of mind for us. And so looking ahead, we're just going to dynamically adjust our pace in the context of those evolving factors.

Okay, thank you. Next question, please.

Our next question comes from Dominic Gabriel of Oppenheimer.

Hey, thanks so much for taking my question. I was wondering if you could provide us with a breakdown of your and remind us of your domestic card spending by retail category as a percent of total spend within domestic cards. So, you know, grocery or T&E or gas, whatever you could provide would be excellent. I would just think that as you're targeting the higher spenders, it's probably had an effect on that mix over the last 10 years as that's changed. Any color you could provide would be great.

Thanks.

Hey, Rich, you need to unmute, please.

Sorry.

Sorry.

Yeah, sorry. I have in front of me. I don't think it's the exact thing you're asking, but I have in front of me some growth rates. In fact, it's been showing growth since versus 2019 of a bunch of categories that I find pretty fascinating, but this isn't our own mix. These things affect mix, I guess, but gas, 90%. Now, by the way, This includes growth by Capital One overall. There's been significant growth of our whole business, but just some relative comparisons. Travel, 26%, although travel is second to gas, if I look at year-over-year growth, only gas as a category. has grown more. So gas is up 54% year over year. Um, the travel is up 42%, uh, year over year. And those are swamping most of the other categories there. But, uh, you know, travel was way the laggard during the downturn and it's been, you know, like I said, other than, than the, than energy, it has been the one that is really catching up quickly. So what's striking is just how much these things vary across categories as the consumer reacts to the environment, be it COVID or energy costs. And also, it'll be interesting to see how much the consumer migrates to whether, you know, to between discretionary and non-discretionary categories. We'll keep a close eye on that one as things get a little tighter in the marketplace.

Great. And then maybe just as a follow-up, you know, given just to take some of the conversation one step further around deposits and funding, Given the amount of card growth that you're seeing and building out this franchise, but the slowing deposit growth, is it reasonable to assume that as a management team, you would really look to focus on growing this business first, regardless of perhaps the funding costs? trade-off between deposits and non-deposit funding, because really you're just gaining more customers within your card franchise and you would make that trade. Thanks so much. Yeah.

So first pulling up, it's not lost on us that, that, you know, our assets are growing rapidly right now. All banks are growing more slowly in deposits. So, you know, we, I think that this is a natural thing that happens at this part of the cycle. And so this is why I made my earlier comments about being very pleased that we have already been leaning into having a deposit franchise and being in a position to build primary banking relationships, to grow savings accounts, to have a brand as a company that will uh, you know, have, um, you know, attractive savings rates, but not to have to go generate all our business off of, um, you know, the bank rate tables, uh, kind of, uh, uh, marketplace. So, uh, but with respect to the economics, uh, Dominic, uh, I think the card margins are such that, that, you know, uh, It's hard to imagine that we wouldn't continue to make the trade that even if we have to pay more for deposits, we would not turn down the growth opportunity. So long as the deposits are available and they're there, it's going to be a good trade to continue growing that card business as far out as we can see because of the particularly robust economics that come with our card franchise. But just to finish off that point, I'm sorry, but we also like being in a position as a national bank with a national brand for digital banking that we're in a position to gather the deposits we need in order to fund the kind of growth opportunity that we have at a time when it's going to get harder to grow deposits at this part of the cycle.

Great. Well, thank you, everyone, for joining us on this conference call today, and thank you for your interest in Capital One. The investor relations team will be here this evening to answer your questions, if you have any, and have a great evening.

Thanks, everybody. Good night.

And that does conclude today's conference. We do thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.