4/30/2024

speaker
Operator

At this time, all participants are in listen-only mode. A brief question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. If anyone should require operator assistance during the conference, please press star zero on your telephone keypad. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Richard Roberts, Vice President of FP&A and Investor Relations. Thank you, sir. You may begin.

speaker
Richard Roberts

Thank you, Christine. Good afternoon, everyone. We very much appreciate you joining us this afternoon for our CBR Energy First Quarter 2024 Earnings Call. With me today are Dave Lamp, our Chief Executive Officer, Dane Newman, our Chief Financial Officer, and other members of management. Prior to discussing our 2024 First Quarter results, let me remind you that this conference call may contain forward-looking statements, as that term is defined under federal securities laws. For this purpose, any statements made during this call that are not statements of historical facts may be deemed to be forward-looking statements. You are cautioned that these statements may be affected by important factors set forth in our filing for the Securities and Exchange Commission and in our latest earnings release. As a result, actual operations or results may differ materially from the results discussed in the forward-looking statements. We undertake no obligation to publicly update any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise, except to the extent required by law. This call also includes various non-GAAP financial measures. The disclosures related to such non-GAAP measures, including reconciliation as the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures, are included in our 2024 first quarter earnings release that we filed with the SEC in the form 10-Q for the period and will be discussed during the call. With that said, I'll turn the call over to Dave.

speaker
Dave

Thank you, Richard. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining our earnings call. Before I discuss our results for the quarter, I want to address an incident at the Woody Wood Refinery that occurred over the weekend early Sunday morning during severe weather in the area. The Winnie Wood Refinery experienced a fire that was extinguished later that morning. No employees or contractors were injured and we are in the beginning of the process of restarting portions of the refinery. We are still assessing the extent of the damage and we expect to provide additional details when they are available. Turning to our results, yesterday we reported a first quarter Consolidated net income of $90 million and earnings per share of 81 cents. EBITDA was $203 million. Our solid results for the quarter were driven by continued declines in the prices of RINs and increased crude oil and refined product prices in the quarter, offset by lower crack spreads and fertilizer prices relative to a prior period. We are pleased to announce that our Board of Directors authorized a first quarter regular dividend of 50 cents per share, which will be paid on May 20th to shareholders of record at the close of the market on May 13th. Our annualized dividend yield of approximately 6% yesterday, based on yesterday's closing price, remains best in class among the independent refiners. In our petroleum segment, Combined total throughput for the first quarter of 2024 was approximately 196,000 barrels per day, and late product yield was 101% on crude oil processed. During the quarter, we completed the planned turnaround at the Winningwood Refinery. We currently do not have any additional turnarounds planned until Coffeeville's turnaround on a crude unit catcracker and Alki, and other associated units currently scheduled for the spring of 2025. Benchmark cracks softened during the first quarter, with Group 3-211 averaging $19.55 per barrel compared to $23.66 per barrel for the fourth quarter of 23. First quarter average RIN prices declined from fourth quarter and ended the quarter at approximately 68 cents on an RVO-weighted basis. While we're thrilled with the Fifth Circuit's decision in November vacating EPA's denial of Winnie Wood's small refinery exemption petitions for 2017 through 2021 and reprimanded those petitions back to EPA, EPA's egregious conduct continues. They still have not acted on Winnie Wood's small refinery exemption petitions for 2017 through 2021, though 90 days have passed since the issuance of the Fifth Circuit mandate. Nor has EPA ruled on EPA's small refinery exemption petition for 2023 due last month. We will continue to push for a court ruling to force EPA to do its job and follow the law. The D.C. Court of Appeals heard oil arguments in the small refinery exemption denial cases for a few other small refineries a few weeks ago. While we expect the ruling will take some time, we were pleased with how the hearing went. We also continue to wait for a response from the EPA regarding our petition for rulemaking related to the RFS. We believe the law is clear that only obligated parties who over-comply with their RFS obligations can generate excess RINs, and that they may sell those RINs only to other obligated parties who need the RINs for compliance. That EPA allows non-obligated parties to exploit the RIN market for profit is just wrong. is not just wrong, it violates the law as written. If EPA does not respond to our petition, once again, we will see them in court. For the first quarter of 2024, we processed approximately 7 million gallons of vegetable oil feedstocks at our Winniewood Renewable Diesel Unit, with throughput in the quarter impacted by a planned catalyst change. The hobo spread improved from the fourth quarter of 23, Lower soybean oil prices, although prices for D4 RENs remain depressed as a result of EPA's continued mismanagement of the RFS program. As a reminder, our renewable diesel business is currently reported in our corporate and other segment. In the fertilizer segment, we achieved consolidated ammonia plant utilization of 90%, which was also impacted by some planned downtime in the quarter at our Coffeyville facility. Nitrogen fertilizer prices in the first quarter of 2024 remained fairly steady for the fourth quarter of 2000, with fourth quarter 2023 pricing. And we saw strong demand for ammonia with favorable weather conditions during the quarter. Now let me turn the call over to Dane to discuss our financial highlights.

speaker
Coffeyville

Thank you, Dave, and good afternoon, everyone. For the first quarter of 2024, our consolidated net income was $90 million, Earnings per share was $0.81 and EBITDA was $203 million. Our first quarter results include a reduction to quarterly RIMS expense due to a marked market impact on our estimated outstanding RFS obligation of $91 million, a favorable inventory valuation impact of $37 million, and unrealized derivative losses of $24 million. Excluding the above mentioned items, adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $99 million and adjusted earnings per share was $0.04. Adjusted EBITDA on the petroleum segment was $67 million for the first quarter, with the decline from the prior year period primarily driven by lower product cracks in Group 3. Our first quarter realized margin adjusted for inventory valuation, unrealized derivative losses, and RIN mark-to-market impacts was $10.46 per barrel, representing a 54% capture rate on the Group 3 2-1-1 benchmark. RIN's expense for the quarter, excluding the mark-to-market impact, was $45 million, or $2.52 per barrel, which negatively impacted our capture rate for the quarter by approximately 13%. The estimated accrued RFS obligation on the balance sheet was 294 million at March 31st, representing 449 million RINs, mark to market at an average price of 66 cents. As a reminder, our estimated outstanding RIN obligation excludes the impact of any small refinery exemptions. Direct operating expenses in the petroleum segment were $5.78 per barrel for the first quarter compared to $5.90 per barrel in the first quarter of 2023. The decrease in direct operating expenses was primarily due to lower natural gas and electricity prices. On a per barrel basis, our direct operating expenses were elevated in the first quarter of 2024 and the prior year period due to lower throughput rates as a result of planned turnarounds. Adjusted EBITDA on the fertilizer segment was $40 million for the first quarter, with lower feedstock costs and direct operating expenses somewhat offsetting the decline in prices relative to the prior year period. The partnership declared a distribution of $1.92 per common unit for the first quarter of 2024. As CVR Energy owns approximately 37% of CVR Partners' common units, we will receive a proportionate cash distribution of approximately $7 million. Cash provided by operations for the first quarter of 2024 was $177 million, and free cash flow was $121 million. Significant uses of cash in the quarter included $61 million for cash taxes and interest, $59 million of capital and turnaround spending, $50 million for the fourth quarter 2023 regular dividend, and $11 million paid for the non-controlling interest portion of the CVR partner's fourth quarter 2023 distribution. Total consolidated capital spending was $51 million which included $36 million in the petroleum segment, $5 million in the fertilizer segment, and $8 million for the RDU, primarily related to the pretreatment unit. Turnaround spending in the first quarter was approximately $39 million. For the full year of 2024, we estimate total consolidated capital spending to be approximately $225 to $250 million, and turnaround spending to be approximately $55 to $65 million. Turning to the balance sheet, we ended the quarter with a consolidated cash balance of $644 million, which includes $65 million of cash in the fertilizer segment. Total liquidity as of March 31st, excluding CVR partners, was approximately $831 million, which was comprised primarily of $580 million of cash and availability under the ABL facility of $251 million. Looking ahead to the second quarter of 2024, as Dave mentioned, we are still assessing the extent of the damage from the fire at Winniewood. We will provide an updated outlook for the petroleum segment and the renewable diesel unit once the impact of the incident is determined. The coffee pool refinery continues to operate as planned. For the fertilizer segment, we estimate our second quarter 2024 ammonia utilization rate to be between 95 and 100%, direct operating expenses to be approximately 50 to 55 million, excluding inventory impacts, and total capital spending to be between $15 and $20 million. With that, Dave, I'll turn it back over to you.

speaker
Dave

Thank you, Dane. In summary, market conditions were challenging for much of the first quarter, particularly in the petroleum segment, as refined product inventories were elevated coming into 2024, and distal demand has been weak with a warm winter and depressed industrial activity. We would characterize current crack spreads as just above mid-cycles. Starting with refining elevated maintenance activity and unplanned downtime in the United States over the past few months helped clean up inventories with gasoline and diesel inventories, both near or below five-year averages. We believe there's additional maintenance work yet to be completed in the United States, Europe, and Asia and the impacts to global refining supply from recent drone attacks on the Russian refineries remains a wild card. We also continue to monitor the startup of new global refining capacity expected this year, which could offset some of the supply impacts just discussed. On the demand side of the equation, gasoline demand in the U.S. remains steady and is trending above the five-year average levels recently, while distillate demand remains soft. Looking more specifically at the MidCon, refined product demand in Group 3 has remained steady, although inventory levels are elevated relative to the U.S. as a whole. As a result, the basis in the Group 3 is unusually wide for gasoline, and we have been increasing our fuel by rail shipments to the west through our new transload facility at Coffeyville. The Brent TI differential has averaged nearly $5 per barrel so far this year, supported by crude oil export volumes averaging over 4 million barrels a day. With crude prices in the $85 per barrel range, we expect continued strength in shale oil production volumes, which should be supportive of our crude oil gathering business. For the first quarter, our crude oil gathering volumes We're approximately 130,000 barrels per day. This is an important part of our strategy, given the uplift we usually experience by bringing in neat barrels to the refinery gates. I'm pleased to announce that the board recently approved a distillate yield improvement project at the Winnie Wood Refinery. Through some modifications to the vacuum tower and our diesel hydro treating unit, we believe we'll be able to increase the insulate production at the Winneywood refinery by approximately 2,500 barrels per day. We completed tie-in work for the project during Winneywood's recent turnaround project, and we currently expect final completion in the first half of 2025 at a capital cost of less than $15 million. We are also studying a similar project at Coffeyville, which, if approved by the board, successfully implemented could be completed in 2026. Turning to the fertilizer segment, we had good ammonia sales in the first quarter with favorable weather conditions allowing farmers to apply ammonia earlier in the year. We expect strong demand for spring with planting expectations currently at 90 million acres for corn and 87 million acres for soybeans. We currently do not have any additional downtime planned for either fertilizer facilities until 2025. The pretreater for the renewable diesel unit began operations in the first quarter, and we expect to replan production rates during the second quarter. We are optimistic with the combination of new catalyst load in the RD unit plus the PTU when operational would result in improved improvements in our renewable diesel product yield, catalyst life, and resulting economics. We continue to explore opportunities in the renewable space and are currently in discussions related to the potential conversion of the Winnie Wood Renewable Diesel Unit up to 100% SAF. As we have discussed previously, our focus in exploring this project would be to structure the off-take agreement such that would significantly de-risk a margin that could justify the capital we need to invest. On the larger potential project at Coffeyville, we expect to have the project scope, cost, and development plan ready to take to the market by the end of the year. We still believe there will be a market for renewable diesel and sustainable aviation going forward, despite EPA's continued mismanagement of the RFS regulations. Finally, in March, we issued a Form 8K announcing that we were routinely considered and currently considering potential strategic transactions, both in refining and potentially related to CBR partners. While we have nothing to disclose and certainly provide no assurances that we could successfully close any such transactions, There are some very interesting and transformative opportunities out there for both our refining business and CVR partners. Looking at the second quarter of 2024, quarter-to-date metrics are as follows. Group 211 cracks have averaged $20.67 per barrel, and Brent TI spread at $4.48 per barrel, and the Midland differential of $1.42 over WTI. Prompt fertilizer prices are approximately $600 per ton for ammonia and $300 per ton for UAM. As of yesterday, Group 3 2-1-1 cracks were $21.01 per barrel. Brent TI spread was $5.77 per barrel, and WCS was $13.21 under WTI. Rins were approximately $3.06 per barrel. As always, we continue to strive to operate our plants in a safe, reliable, and environmentally responsible manner, and to explore opportunities to grow our renewable business. We will continue to focus on maximizing free cash flow, which underpins our peer-leading dividend yield. With that, operator, we're ready for questions.

speaker
Operator

Thank you. We will now be conducting a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star 2 if you would like to remove your question from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing star keys. One moment please while we poll for questions. Thank you. Our first question comes from the line of Manav Gupta with UBS. Please proceed with your questions.

speaker
Manav Gupta

Good morning, guys. You are considered a good and safe operator, and I understand you're still evaluating what happened over the weekend, but help us understand a little bit. What is it, a weather-related event? Exactly what went wrong over the weekend which caused some of the issues that you're seeing?

speaker
Dave

Well, we don't know exactly all the facts yet, Manav, but it appears like we got hit by lightning in one of our process areas. And that lightning caused the impending fire, and then that spread a little bit as it got hot. I think our response was excellent to it from the community standpoint, our employee standpoint, our contractor standpoint. But it's an unfortunate event that we're sometimes exposed to. If you recall the town of Sulphur, which is probably, I don't know, 15 miles from us, experienced a very bad tornado and you know that storms were really bad that night and lightning was flying all over the place and we think we took a direct hit but you never can be sure because it happens so fast.

speaker
Manav Gupta

Right, so there's literally nothing you would have done about it. So just was trying to make sure. And my second question is, looks like your PTO is now going to be up and running, is running at your RD facility. Help us understand how it, are you looking to transform from, you know, refined soybean oil to unrefined soybean oil? Are you looking to do some tallow and stuff? And do you think that does make a material difference to your renewable diesel profitability?

speaker
Dave

Well, there's no doubt that we've been catalyst-starved with the unit without a PTU. We've had pretty short runs and poor yields, I'll call it, on actual renewable diesel. We're very encouraged with even buying treated feed or refined deodorized and degummed feed. It still had a lot of impurities in it in the forms of metals and phosphorus and other things. And the results of the pre-treater look really good at this point. And, you know, we're starting this run with the pre-treater up. And, you know, the catalyst performance is already looking very good, yields of 90-plus percent on renewable diesel and much less byproducts that we had seen before that. So I'm really optimistic that we'll pick up, you know, not only ability to run untreated corn oil, and soybean oil, but maybe some other options for some other things. But right now we're really focused on the corn oil as a substitute for the soybean oil. And we think that the margin on that right now is probably in the 80 cent range per gallon on a pre-treated basis. So if we look at the first quarter, we had a margin of about 65 cents a gallon which if we could have run more barrels, we would have probably shown a profit on that unit. As it is, we were just kind of breakeven.

speaker
spk22

Thank you. Very helpful. Thank you. You're welcome.

speaker
Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Matthew Blair with Tudor Pickering Holt. Please proceed with your question.

speaker
Matthew Blair

Thank you, and good afternoon, Dave. I want to follow up on your comments regarding, I think you mentioned something about railing gasoline to the West Coast. So just wanted to confirm that, that you are railing gasoline to California and capitalizing on the higher margins in that space. And also just curious, can you make that carb spec or is it a blended spec? And what kind of volumes are we talking about here? Thanks.

speaker
Dave

Sure. As I mentioned, I said to the west, not necessarily to California. But no, we put in a transloading facility. I had a third party put it in, and we're underwriting it with tariffs. But our plan is to be able to load up to 120,000 barrels per month, and that's our capability of the transloader. But we'll go probably wherever the margins are the best. As far as making carb, we really haven't looked at that much, although I'm pretty sure we could make some of it to some degree if we had the segregated tankage. But we haven't gone that far yet. If California continues to get shorter and shorter, it might be an attractive move. But the ARB's open to other areas, such as Grand Junction, even Denver occasionally, and other places like like Salt Lake City and Phoenix on occasion. So there's where we're focused mostly.

speaker
Matthew Blair

Is there a good rule of thumb for the rail costs associated with that, like maybe $0.30 or $0.40 a gallon?

speaker
Dave

Well, normally, any time you move anything by rail, it's $6 to $8 per barrel. So that's a good rule of thumb. Depends on how far you go and where you go. Then you have unloading fees and loading fees on the front side. But that's a good rule of thumb.

speaker
Matthew Blair

Sounds good. And then my follow-up, do you think anything will change on your WCS exposure as TMX ramps, or do you expect to receive the same volumes on, I think it's at least the express pipeline. There might be one other And we've noticed that the WCS futures curve, it widens out to about $15 a barrel by the end of this year. Is that just from expectations of continuing production growth in Canada? Thanks.

speaker
Dave

Yeah, I think mostly what you're seeing right now is the line fill, which is taking, what, 4.5 million barrels off the market permanently. And that's what brings it down to the $13 range that it's at today. I would expect it to widen back out a little bit once the line fill is complete. I think most of the barrels that are going to be replaced are the ones that were going offshore out of the Gulf of Mexico. I'm not anticipating any problems getting barrels. We don't run all we can move on the pipes, so we end up selling quite a bit in Cushing. And we plan to continue that effort. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't continue where the production is today. I think the real benefit of TMX is really for the future, however. It gives the Canadian producers an outlet that they didn't have before. And unfortunately, Keystone got canceled, which would have given them that capacity to the United States rather than shipping to the to the west and the rest of the world, but I think still the effect will be there and that means more Canadian crude in the future.

speaker
spk15

Great. Thanks, Dave. You're welcome.

speaker
Operator

Our next question comes from the line of John Royal with J.B. Morgan. Please proceed with your question.

speaker
John Royal

Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. So I was hoping for some additional color on refining M&A in light of the 8K. Could that impact some of the things you would otherwise do on the organic side, particularly thinking about the bigger projects you're considering with RD? Is it sort of an either-or with M&A, or could both be done at the same time?

speaker
Dave

Well, John, remember that our larger RD project, or SAF project, however you want to call it, is really banked on our contribution being our Winnie Wood operation of renewable diesel or SAF. What we are doing is what equity we're providing. The location, the land, the permits, the design, all the rest will operate it for whatever. But we will not do the project without a partner that is strategic in nature. and is interested in the space with the idea that we would IPO that company out as an eventual exit strategy. As far as other M&A, there's some very intriguing deals out there that are transformative for our company as well as others. I think as we've always said, we look at everything and we continue to look at everything. Like I said, some unique opportunities in the refining space that really made us pick up our pencil again and look at it again. So, you know, more to come on that.

speaker
John Royal

Great. And then follow-up, sticking with the 8K, on the potential strategic options for UAN, I know this is something you looked at about maybe about a year ago. Now it looks like the idea of potentially separating UAN is back on the docket. Can you talk about the type of transaction that could potentially take place there, and what's changed between then and now in terms of being back and looking at some of the parts for fertilizer? Is it just the equity coming back a little bit, or are there other drivers?

speaker
Dave

Well, I think you've probably heard about the recent transaction that's occurred, or hasn't closed yet, but it's been proposed. for the Weber plant with OCI that kind of marked the market a pretty big value, pretty much twice the value of what UAN is today. So that's what kind of sparked the interest in it, and we're just exploring opportunities that that might incur going forward.

speaker
spk16

Thank you. You're welcome.

speaker
Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Neil Meadow with Goldman Sachs. Please proceed with your question.

speaker
Neil Meadow

Thanks. Dave, just building on the M&A comments that you have made in the 8K, are there characteristics that you would say define what would be a successful M&A transaction for you on the refining side, whether it's specific regions? And as you think about potential M&A transactions, Do you have a preference for packages versus single assets? Just trying to get a context of the framework by which you evaluate success as you consider different options.

speaker
Dave

Sure, Neil. You know, I think one of our biggest impediments to our stock price, I think, is our lack of diversification. So, you know, we've in the past have pointed to the West as our desired area, but we've I think what we need is size and scale and diversity of our refining fleet, and any of these actions and the available transactions would scratch that itch. I think that's mainly what we're looking for. When you sit here in the mid-con and that's all you got, particularly Group 3, you're subject to the whelms of the market with nothing to offset it other than fertilizer. So, you know, if you look at the size of our fertilizer business compared to the rest of it, it's relatively small. So any diversification we can do there is a benefit to the stock and the shareholders is my point of view.

speaker
Neil Meadow

Yeah, thanks, David. The follow-up is just distillate. You have a distillate-heavy mix here. which has been a huge tailwind over the last couple of years. It has softened a little bit here more recently, and part of that does seem to be seasonal. But has anything changed in your structurally bullish distillate and diesel view? And are you seeing anything real-time that would say that things should turn more positive as we work our way through the summer?

speaker
Dave

Well, you know, we came off of two very mild winters, frankly. Some people say it was the mildest winter ever in the States. I don't know, because we had some severe weather in our markets that makes me wonder how much the climate's really changing. But that said, you know, I think the bigger impact is really the industrial activity. And just the movement of goods around the country has just been kind of anemic. That said, if you just look at it, the other thing I'd add to it, we're up to almost 5% now of renewable diesel in the pool. That was less than 1% a year and a half ago. So it's really come on, and it certainly is changing the California market. but it's probably affecting everywhere to some degree. Now, all that said, if you look at the practicality of EVs in the heavy trucking industry, it's poor at best, and renewable diesel is by far a better solution. So I don't think that the market can't handle that. It's just if we have any kind of manufacturing industrial activity diesel demand will pick right back up. And that's kind of our view.

speaker
spk04

Okay. Very helpful. Thanks, Dave.

speaker
Dave

You're welcome.

speaker
Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Paul Cheng with Scotiabank. Please proceed with your question.

speaker
Paul Cheng

Hey, good morning, guys. Good afternoon, guys. Dave ordained that in the event if there's a good transaction in refining, how much of the debt load you will be willing to put on in terms of the balance sheet? I mean, how should we look at it?

speaker
spk19

Can you repeat it again, Paul?

speaker
Paul Cheng

If there's a good transaction, an acquisition target that you think is really good for you, how far you will be willing to stretch your balance sheet?

speaker
Coffeyville

Yeah, Paul, it would obviously depend on, you know, the target and what the earnings power of that target would be. You know, we've always kind of said we're comfortable between the one and two times levered ratio. So depending on the target, you know, I don't think we'd want to change our debt profile materially long term. So I'd still use that as a benchmark over the long haul.

speaker
Dave

And we'd want to use our equity, too, to some degree, Paul.

speaker
Paul Cheng

All right. But I mean that, Dan, I understand your long-term leverage target you haven't changed, but in terms of the short-term, how far are you willing to go? What is within an acceptable level of that, say, within the 12 months after you close the deal?

speaker
spk11

I'll lever off what Dave said. It really would depend on the depth of the equity market.

speaker
Coffeyville

Is there a scenario where we potentially stretch if there was a very clear path of de-levering? Yes, but probably not too aggressively beyond what our current targets are.

speaker
Paul Cheng

Okay. Second question. Dane, can you tell us that what is your remaining hedging position for the rest of the year? And also, Dave, when you talk about the second quarter, the ROD will be reaching the capacity, are you talking about reaching the run at 100 percent? Because previously I think you've been talking about running maybe more like in the 70 percent, so I just wanted to make sure I understand your comment on that.

speaker
Dave

Yeah, Paul, on the RD side of it is, you know, we're planning to run this run at 5,000 barrels per day, which is about 75 of renewable diesel compared to our nameplate of 100. So, you know, we're probably a little higher in the numbers you said, but, you know, right in that angle. And what we're trying to explore here is catalyst life and find the optimum in that. And, you know, we'll sneak up on that probably the next load, increasing it to maybe 6,000, and then we'll go from there. Any other questions?

speaker
Paul

Yeah, on open derivative positions, Paul,

speaker
Coffeyville

So for 24, we're at about 8% of gasoline and diesel production. The only thing I want to caveat is that production rate does assume a full run rate of Winnie Wood, so once we know more, we'll be able to appropriately adjust what that would look like with any downtime that's associated with the fire. And then for 25, we're about 4% of total gasoline diesel production. 100% of that is diesel production, so 9% on diesel production for 25.

speaker
Paul Cheng

Then you say 4% in gasoline and diesel, but that's because it's all in diesel, so it's 9% in diesel and zero in gasoline, right? Yeah, that's correct. And is the position for the second quarter right now is making money or losing money? Making money for the second half. For the second quarter right now. Is your divested position in the second quarter, you're making money or losing money? Yeah, we're making money.

speaker
Coffeyville

It's in the money right now, Paul.

speaker
Paul

Okay, with you. Thank you. You're welcome.

speaker
Operator

Thank you. We have no further questions at this time. I would like to turn the floor back over to management for closing comments.

speaker
Dave

Again, I'd like to thank you all for your interest in CBR Energy. Additionally, I'd like to thank our employees for their hard work and commitment towards safe, reliable, and environmentally responsible operations. We look forward to reviewing our second quarter 2024 results in our next earnings call. Thank you.

speaker
Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation, and have a wonderful day. you Bye. Thank you. Bye. Greetings and welcome to the CBR Energy first quarter 2024 conference call. At this time, all participants are in listen-only mode. A brief question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. If anyone should require operator assistance during the conference, please press star zero on your telephone keypad. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It is now my pleasure to introduce your host, Richard Roberts, Vice President of FP&A and Investor Relations. Thank you, sir. You may begin.

speaker
Richard Roberts

Thank you, Christine. Good afternoon, everyone. We very much appreciate you joining us this afternoon for our CBR Energy First Quarter 2024 Earnings Call. With me today are Dave Lamp, our Chief Executive Officer, Dave Newman, our Chief Financial Officer, and other members of management. Prior to discussing our 2024 First Quarter results, let me remind you that this conference call may contain forward-looking statements as that term is defined under federal securities laws. For this purpose, any statements made during this call that are not statements of historical facts may be deemed to be forward-looking statements. You are cautioned that these statements may be affected by important factors set forth in our filings to the Securities and Exchange Commission and in our latest earnings release. As a result, actual operations or results may differ materially from the results discussed in the forward-looking statements. We undertake no obligation to publicly update any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise, except to the extent required by law. This call also includes various non-GAAP financial measures. The disclosures related to such non-GAAP measures, including reconciliation with the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures, are included in our 2024 first quarter earnings release that we filed with the SEC in Form 10-Q for the period and will be discussed during the call. With that said, I'll turn the call over to Dave.

speaker
Dave

Thank you, Richard. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining our earnings call. Before I discuss our results for the quarter, I want to address an incident at the Winnie Wood Refinery that occurred over the weekend. early Sunday morning during severe weather in the area, the Winnie Wood Refinery experienced a fire that was extinguished later that morning. No employees or contractors were injured and we are in the beginning of the process of restarting portions of the refinery. We are still assessing the extent of the damage and we expect to provide additional details when they are available. Turning to our results, yesterday we reported a first quarter consolidated net income of $90 million and earnings per share of 81 cents. EBITDA was $203 million. Our solid results for the quarter were driven by continued declines in the prices of RINs and increased crude oil and refined product prices in the quarter, offset by lower crack spreads and fertilizer prices relative to a prior period. We are pleased to announce that our Board of Directors authorized a first quarter regular dividend of 50 cents per share, which will be paid on May 20th to shareholders of record at the close of the market on May 13th. Our annualized dividend yield of approximately 6% yesterday, based on yesterday's closing price, remains best in class among the independent refiners. In our petroleum segment, Combined total throughput for the first quarter of 2024 was approximately 196,000 barrels per day, and late product yield was 101% on crude oil processed. During the quarter, we completed the planned turnaround at the Winningwood Refinery. We currently do not have any additional turnarounds planned until Coffeeville's turnaround on a crude unit catcracker and Alki, and other associated units currently scheduled for the spring of 2025. Benchmark cracks softened during the first quarter, with Group 3-211 averaging $19.55 per barrel compared to $23.66 per barrel for the fourth quarter of 23. First quarter average RIN prices declined from fourth quarter and ended the quarter at approximately 68 cents on an RVO-weighted basis. While we're thrilled with the Fifth Circuit's decision in November vacating EPA's denial of Winnie Wood's small refinery exemption petitions for 2017 through 2021 and reprimanded those petitions back to EPA, EPA's egregious conduct continues. They still have not acted on Winnie Wood's small refinery exemption petitions for 2017 through 2021, though 90 days have passed since the issuance of the Fifth Circuit mandate. Nor has EPA ruled on EPA's small refinery exemption petition for 2023 due last month. We will continue to push for a court ruling to force EPA to do its job and follow the law. The D.C. Court of Appeals heard oil arguments in the small refinery exemption denial cases for a few other small refineries a few weeks ago. While we expect a ruling will take some time, we were pleased with how the hearing went. We also continue to wait for a response from the EPA regarding our petition for rulemaking related to the RFS. We believe the law is clear that only obligated parties who over-comply with their RFS obligations can generate excess RINs, and that they may sell those RINs only to other obligated parties who need the RINs for compliance. That EPA allows non-obligated parties to exploit the RIN market for profit is just wrong. is not just wrong, it violates the law as written. If EPA does not respond to our petition, once again, we will see them in court. For the first quarter of 2024, we processed approximately 7 million gallons of vegetable oil feedstocks at our Winniewood Renewable Diesel Unit, with throughput in the quarter impacted by a planned catalyst change. The hobo spread improved from the fourth quarter of 23, with Lower soybean oil prices, although prices for D4 RENs remain depressed as a result of EPA's continued mismanagement of the RFS program. As a reminder, our renewable diesel business is currently reported in our corporate and other segment. In the fertilizer segment, we achieved consolidated ammonia plant utilization of 90%, which was also impacted by some planned downtime in the quarter at our Coffeyville facility. Nitrogen fertilizer prices in the first quarter of 2024 remained fairly steady for the fourth quarter of 2000, with fourth quarter 2023 pricing. And we saw strong demand for ammonia with favorable weather conditions during the quarter. Now let me turn the call over to Dane to discuss our financial highlights.

speaker
Coffeyville

Thank you, Dave, and good afternoon, everyone. For the first quarter of 2024, our consolidated net income was $90 million, Earnings per share was $0.81 and EBITDA was $203 million. Our first quarter results include a reduction to quarterly RINs expense due to a marked market impact on our estimated outstanding RFS obligation of $91 million, a favorable inventory valuation impact of $37 million, and unrealized derivative losses of $24 million. Excluding the above mentioned items, adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $99 million and adjusted earnings per share was $0.04. Adjusted EBITDA on the petroleum segment was $67 million for the first quarter, with the decline from the prior year period primarily driven by lower product cracks in Group 3. Our first quarter realized margin adjusted for inventory valuation, unrealized derivative losses, and RIN mark-to-market impacts was $10.46 per barrel, representing a 54% capture rate on the Group 3 2-1-1 benchmark. RIN's expense for the quarter, excluding the mark-to-market impact, was $45 million, or $2.52 per barrel, which negatively impacted our capture rate for the quarter by approximately 13%. The estimated accrued RFS obligation on the balance sheet was $294 million at March 31st, representing 449 million RINs marked to market at an average price of $0.66. As a reminder, our estimated outstanding RIN obligation excludes the impact of any small refinery exemptions. Direct operating expenses in the petroleum segment were $5.78 per barrel for the first quarter compared to $5.90 per barrel in the first quarter of 2023. The decrease in direct operating expenses was primarily due to lower natural gas and electricity prices. On a per barrel basis, our direct operating expenses were elevated in the first quarter of 2024 and the prior year period due to lower throughput rates as a result of planned turnarounds. Adjusted EBITDA on the fertilizer segment was $40 million for the first quarter, with lower feedstock costs and direct operating expenses somewhat offsetting the decline in prices relative to the prior year period. The partnership declared a distribution of $1.92 per common unit for the first quarter of 2024. As CVR Energy owns approximately 37% of CVR Partners' common units, we will receive a proportionate cash distribution of approximately $7 million. Cash provided by operations for the first quarter of 2024 was $177 million, and free cash flow was $121 million. Significant uses of cash in the quarter included $61 million for cash taxes and interest, $59 million of capital and turnaround spending, $50 million for the fourth quarter 2023 regular dividend, and $11 million paid for the non-controlling interest portion of the CVR partner's fourth quarter 2023 distribution. Total consolidated capital spending was $51 million, which included $36 million in the petroleum segment, $5 million in the fertilizer segment, and $8 million for the RDU, primarily related to the pretreatment unit. Turnaround spending in the first quarter was approximately $39 million. For the full year of 2024, we estimate total consolidated capital spending to be approximately $225 to $250 million and turnaround spending to be approximately $55 to $65 million. Turning to the balance sheet, we ended the quarter with a consolidated cash balance of $644 million, which includes $65 million of cash in the fertilizer segment. Total liquidity as of March 31st, excluding CVR partners, was approximately $831 million, which was comprised primarily of $580 million of cash and availability under the ABL facility of $251 million. Looking ahead to the second quarter of 2024, as Dave mentioned, we are still assessing the extent of the damage from the fire at Winniewood. We will provide an updated outlook for the petroleum segment and the renewable diesel unit once the impact of the incident is determined. The coffee mill refinery continues to operate as planned. For the fertilizer segment, we estimate our second quarter 2024 ammonia utilization rate to be between 95 and 100%, direct operating expenses to be approximately 50 to 55 million, excluding inventory impacts, and total capital spending to be between $15 and $20 million. With that, Dave, I'll turn it back over to you.

speaker
Dave

Thank you, Dane. In summary, market conditions were challenging for much of the first quarter, particularly in the petroleum segment, as refined product inventories were elevated coming into 2024, and distal demand has been weak with a warm winter and depressed industrial activity. we would characterize current crack spreads as just above mid-cycles. Starting with refining elevated maintenance activity and unplanned downtime in the United States over the past few months helped clean up inventories with gasoline and diesel inventories, both near or below five-year averages. We believe there's additional maintenance work yet to be completed in the United States, Europe, and Asia and the impacts to global refining supply from recent drone attacks on the Russian refineries remains a wild card. We also continue to monitor the startup of new global refining capacity expected this year, which could offset some of the supply impacts just discussed. On the demand side of the equation, gasoline demand in the U.S. remains steady and is trending above the five-year average levels recently, while distillate demand remains soft. Looking more specifically at the MidCon, refined product demand in Group 3 has remained steady, although inventory levels are elevated relative to the U.S. as a whole. As a result, the basis in the Group 3 is unusually wide for gasoline, and we have been increasing our fuel by rail shipments to the west through our new transload facility at Coffeyville. The Brent TI differential has averaged nearly $5 per barrel so far this year, supported by crude oil export volumes averaging over 4 million barrels a day. With crude prices in the $85 per barrel range, we expect continued strength in shale oil production volumes, which should be supportive of our crude oil gathering business. For the first quarter, our crude oil gathering volumes We're approximately 130,000 barrels per day. This is an important part of our strategy given the uplift we usually experience by bringing in neat barrels to the refinery gates. I'm pleased to announce that the board recently approved a distillate yield improvement project at the Winnie Wood Refinery. Through some modifications to the vacuum tower and our diesel hydro treating unit, we believe we'll be able to increase the insulate production at the Winneywood refinery by approximately 2,500 barrels per day. We completed tie-in work for the project during Winneywood's recent turnaround project, and we currently expect final completion in the first half of 2025 at a capital cost of less than $15 million. We are also studying a similar project at Coffeyville, which, if approved by the board, and successfully implemented could be completed in 2026. Turning to the fertilizer segment, we had good ammonia sales in the first quarter with favorable weather conditions allowing farmers to apply ammonia earlier in the year. We expect strong demand for spring with planting expectations currently at 90 million acres for corn and 87 million acres for soybeans. We currently do not have any additional downtime planned for either fertilizer facilities until 2025. The pretreater for the renewable diesel unit began operations in the first quarter, and we expect to re-plan production rates during the second quarter. We are optimistic with the combination of new catalyst load in the RD unit plus the PTU when operational would result in improved and improvements in our renewable diesel product yield, catalyst life, and resulting economics. We continue to explore opportunities in the renewable space and are currently in discussions related to the potential conversion of the Winnie Wood Renewable Diesel Unit up to 100% SAF. As we have discussed previously, our focus in exploring this project would be to structure the offtake agreement such that would significantly de-risk a margin that could justify the capital we need to invest. On the larger potential project at Coffeyville, we expect to have the project scope, cost, and development plan ready to take to the market by the end of the year. We still believe there will be a market for renewable diesel and sustainable aviation going forward, despite EPA's continued mismanagement of the RFS regulations. Finally, in March, we issued a Form 8K announcing that we were routinely considered and currently considering potential strategic transactions, both in refining and potentially related to CBR partners. While we have nothing to disclose and certainly provide no assurances that we could successfully close any such transactions, There are some very interesting and transformative opportunities out there for both our refining business and CVR partners. Looking at the second quarter of 2024, quarter-to-date metrics are as follows. Group 211 cracks have averaged $20.67 per barrel, and Brent TI spread at $4.48 per barrel, and the Midland differential of $1.42 over WTI. Prompt fertilizer prices are approximately $600 per ton for ammonia and $300 per ton for UAM. As of yesterday, Group 3 2-1-1 cracks were $21.01 per barrel. Brent TI spread was $5.77 per barrel, and WCS was $13.21 under WTI. Rins were approximately $3.06 per barrel. As always, we continue to strive to operate our plants in a safe, reliable, and environmentally responsible manner, and to explore opportunities to grow our renewable business. We will continue to focus on maximizing free cash flow, which underpins our peer-leading dividend yield. With that, operator, we're ready for questions.

speaker
Operator

Thank you. We will now be conducting a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad. A confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star 2 if you would like to remove your question from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing star keys. One moment please while we poll for questions. Thank you. Our first question comes from the line of Manav Gupta with UBS. Please proceed with your question.

speaker
Manav Gupta

Good morning, guys. You are considered a good and safe operator, and I understand you're still evaluating what happened over the weekend, but help us understand a little bit. What is it, a weather-related event? Exactly what went wrong over the weekend which caused some of the issues that you're seeing?

speaker
Dave

Well, we don't know exactly all the facts yet, Manav, but it appears like we got hit by lightning in one of our process areas. And that lightning caused the impending fire, and then that spread a little bit as it got hot. I think our response was excellent to it from the community standpoint, our employee standpoint, our contractor standpoint. But it's an unfortunate event that we're sometimes exposed to. If you recall the town of Sulphur, which is probably, I don't know, 15 miles from us, experienced a very bad tornado. And, you know, that storms were really bad that night and lightning was flying all over the place. And we think we took a direct hit, but you never can be sure that it happened so fast.

speaker
Manav Gupta

Right, so there's literally nothing you would have done about it. So just was trying to make sure. And my second question is, looks like your PTO is now going to be up and running, is running at your RD facility. Help us understand how it, what are you looking to transform from, you know, refined soybean oil to unrefined soybean oil? Are you looking to do some tallow and stuff? And do you think that does make a material difference to your renewable diesel profitability?

speaker
Dave

Well, there's no doubt that we've been catalyst-starved with a unit without a PTU. We've had pretty short runs and poor yields, I'll call it, on actual renewable diesel. We're very encouraged with even buying treated feed or refined deodorized and degummed feed. It still had a lot of impurities in it in the forms of metals and phosphorus and other things. And the results of the pre-treater look really good at this point. And, you know, we're starting this run with the pre-treater up. And, you know, the catalyst performance is already looking very good. Yields of 90-plus percent on renewable diesel and much less byproducts that we had seen before that. So I'm really optimistic that we'll pick up, you know, not only ability to run untreated corn oil products, and soybean oil, but maybe some other options for some other things. But right now, we're really focused on the corn oil as a substitute for the soybean oil. And we think that the margin on that right now is probably in the $0.80 range per gallon on a pretreated basis. So if we look at the first quarter, we had a margin of about $0.65 a gallon which if we could have run more barrels, we would have probably shown a profit on that unit. As it is, we were just kind of breakeven.

speaker
spk22

Thank you. Very helpful. Thank you. You're welcome.

speaker
Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Matthew Blair with Tudor Pickering Holt. Please proceed with your question.

speaker
Matthew Blair

Thank you, and good afternoon, Dave. I want to follow up on your comments regarding, I think you mentioned something about railing gasoline to the West Coast. So just wanted to confirm that, that you are railing gasoline to California and capitalizing on the higher margins in that space. And also just curious, can you make that carb spec or is it a blended spec? And what kind of volumes are we talking about here? Thanks.

speaker
Dave

Sure. As I mentioned, I said to the West, not necessarily to California. But no, we put in a transloading facility. I had a third party put it in, and we're underwriting it with tariffs. But our plan is to be able to load up to 120,000 barrels per month, and that's our capability of the transloader. But we'll go probably wherever the margins are the best As far as making CARB, we really haven't looked at that much, although I'm pretty sure we could make some of it to some degree if we had the segregated tankage. But, you know, we haven't gone that far yet. If California continues to get shorter and shorter, it might be an attractive move. But the ARB's open to other areas, such as Grand Junction, even Denver occasionally, and other places like... like Salt Lake City and Phoenix on occasion. So there's where we're focused mostly.

speaker
Matthew Blair

Is there a good rule of thumb for the rail costs associated with that, like maybe $0.30 or $0.40 a gallon?

speaker
Dave

Well, normally anytime you move anything by rail, it's $6 to $8 per barrel. So that's a good rule of thumb. Depends on how far you go and where you go. Then you have unloading fees and loading fees on the front side. But that's a good rule of thumb.

speaker
Matthew Blair

Sounds good. And then my follow-up, do you think anything will change on your WCS exposure as TMX ramps, or do you expect to receive the same volumes on, I think it's at least the express pipeline. There might be one other And we've noticed that the WCS futures curve, it widens out to about $15 a barrel by the end of this year. Is that just from expectations of continuing production growth in Canada? Thanks.

speaker
Dave

Yeah, I think mostly what you're seeing right now is the line fill, which is taking, what, four and a half million barrels off the market permanently. And that's what brings it down to the $13 range that it's at today. I would expect it to widen back out a little bit once the line fill is complete. I think most of the barrels that are going to be replaced are the ones that were going offshore out of the Gulf of Mexico. I'm not anticipating any problems getting barrels. We don't run all we can move on the pipes, so we end up selling quite a bit in Cushing. And we plan to continue that effort. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't continue where the production is today. I think the real benefit of TMX is really for the future, however. It gives the Canadian producers an outlet that they didn't have before. And unfortunately, Keystone got canceled, which would have given them that capacity to the United States rather than shipping to the to the West and the rest of the world, but I think still the effect will be there and that means more Canadian crude in the future.

speaker
spk15

Great. Thanks, Dave. You're welcome.

speaker
Operator

Our next question comes from the line of John Royal with J.P. Morgan. Please proceed with your question.

speaker
John Royal

Hi. Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my question. So I was hoping for some additional color on refining M&A in light of the 8K. Could that impact some of the things you would otherwise do on the organic side, particularly thinking about the bigger projects you're considering with RD? Is it sort of an either-or with M&A, or could both be done at the same time?

speaker
Dave

Well, John, remember that our larger RD project, or SAF project, however you want to call it, is really banked on our contribution being our Winnie Wood operation of renewable diesel or SAF. What we are doing is sweat equity. We're providing the location, the land, the permits, the design, all the rest. We'll operate it for whatever. But we will not do the project without a partner that is strategic in nature. and is interested in the space with the idea that we would IPO that company out as an eventual exit strategy. As far as other M&A, there's some very intriguing deals out there that are transformative for our company as well as others. I think, as we've always said, we look at everything and we continue to look at everything. Like I said, some unique opportunities in the refining space that really made us pick up our pencil again and look at it again. So more to come on that.

speaker
John Royal

Great. And then follow-up, sticking with the 8K, on the potential strategic options for UAN, I know this is something you looked at maybe about a year ago. Now it looks like the idea of potentially separating UAN is back on the docket. Can you talk about the type of transaction that could potentially take place there, and what's changed between then and now in terms of being back and looking at some of the parts for fertilizer? Is it just the equity coming back a little bit, or are there other drivers?

speaker
Dave

Well, I think you've probably heard about the recent transaction that's occurred, or hasn't closed yet, but it's been proposed. for the Weber plant with OCI that kind of marked the market a pretty big value, pretty much twice the value of what UAN is today. So that's what kind of sparked the interest in it, and we're just exploring opportunities that that might incur going forward.

speaker
spk16

Thank you. You're welcome.

speaker
Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Neil Meadow with Goldman Sachs. Please proceed with your question.

speaker
Neil Meadow

Thanks. Dave, just building on the M&A comments that you have made and in the 8K, are there characteristics that you would say define what would be a successful M&A transaction for you on the refining side, whether it's specific regions? And as you think about potential M&A, do you have a preference for packages versus single assets? Just trying to get a context of the framework by which you evaluate success as you consider different options.

speaker
Dave

Sure, Neil. You know, I think, you know, one of our biggest impediments to our stock price, I think, is our lack of diversification. So, you know, we've in the past have pointed to the west as our desired area, but... I think what we need is size and scale and diversity of our refining fleet. Any of these actions and the available transactions would scratch that itch. I think that's mainly what we're looking for. When you sit here in the mid-con and that's all you got, particularly Group 3, you're subject to the whims of the market with nothing to offset it other than fertilizer. So, you know, if you look at the size of our fertilizer business compared to the rest of it, it's relatively small. So any diversification we can do there is a benefit to the stock and the shareholders is my point of view.

speaker
Neil Meadow

Yeah, thanks, David. The follow-up is just distillate. You have a distillate-heavy mix here. which has been a huge tailwind over the last couple of years. It has softened a little bit here more recently, and part of that does seem to be seasonal. But has anything changed in your structurally bullish distillate and diesel view? And are you seeing anything real-time that would say that things should turn more positive as we work our way through the summer?

speaker
Dave

Well, you know, we came off of two very mild winters, frankly. Some people say it was the mildest winter ever in the States. I don't know, because we had some severe weather in our markets that makes me wonder how much the climate's really changing. But that said, you know, I think the bigger impact is really the industrial activity. And just the movement of goods around the country has just been kind of anemic. That said, if you just look at, the other thing I'd add to it, we're up to almost 5% now of renewable diesel in the pool. That was less than 1% a year and a half ago. So it's really come on, and it certainly is changing the California market. but it's probably affecting everywhere to some degree. Now, all that said, if you look at the practicality of EVs in the heavy trucking industry, it's poor at best, and renewable diesel is by far a better solution. So I don't think that the market can't handle that. It's just if we have any kind of manufacturing industrial activity diesel demand will pick right back up. And that's kind of our view.

speaker
spk04

Okay. Very helpful. Thanks, Dave.

speaker
Dave

You're welcome.

speaker
Operator

Our next question comes from the line of Paul Cheng with Scotiabank. Please proceed with your question.

speaker
Paul Cheng

Hey, good morning, guys. Good afternoon, guys. Dave ordained that in the event if there's a good transition in refining, how much of the debt load you will be willing to put on in terms of the balance sheet? I mean, how should we look at it?

speaker
spk19

Can you repeat it again, Paul?

speaker
Paul Cheng

If there's a good transaction, an acquisition target that you think is really good for you, how far you will be willing to stretch your balance sheet?

speaker
Coffeyville

Yeah, Paul, it would obviously depend on, you know, the target and what the earnings power of that target would be. You know, we've always kind of said we're comfortable between the one and two times levered ratio. So depending on the target, you know, I don't think we want to change our debt profile materially long term. So I'd still use that as a benchmark over the long haul.

speaker
Dave

And we'd want to use our equity, too, to some degree, Paul.

speaker
Paul Cheng

All right. But I mean that, Dan, I understand your long-term leverage target you haven't changed, but in terms of the short-term, how far are you willing to go? What is within an acceptable level of that, say, within the 12 months after you close the deal?

speaker
spk11

I'll lever off what Dave said. It really would depend on the depth of the equity market.

speaker
Coffeyville

Is there a scenario where we potentially stretch if there was a very clear path of de-levering? Yes, but probably not too aggressively beyond where our current targets are.

speaker
Paul Cheng

Okay. Second question, Dane, can you tell us that what is your remaining hedging position for the rest of the year? And also, Dave, when you talk about the second quarter, the IOD will be reaching the capacity, are you talking about reaching the run at 100%? Because previously I think you've been talking about running maybe more like in the 70%, so I just wanted to make sure I understand your comment on that.

speaker
Dave

Yeah, Paul, on the RD side of it is, you know, we're planning to run this run at 5,000 barrels per day, which is about 75 of renewable diesel compared to our nameplate of 100. So, you know, we're probably a little higher in the numbers you said, but, you know, right in that angle. And what we're trying to explore here is catalyst life and find the optimum in that. And, you know, we'll sneak up on that probably the next load, increasing it to maybe 6,000, and then we'll go from there. Any other questions?

speaker
Paul

Yeah, on open derivative positions, Paul,

speaker
Coffeyville

So for 24, we're at about 8% of gasoline and diesel production. The only thing I want to caveat is that production rate does assume a full run rate of Winnie Wood, so once we know more, we'll be able to appropriately adjust what that would look like with any downtime that's associated with the fire. And then for 25, we're about 4% of total gasoline diesel production. 100% of that is diesel production, so 9% on diesel production for 25.

speaker
Paul Cheng

Then you say 4% in gasoline and diesel, but that's because it's all in diesel, so it's 9% in diesel and zero in gasoline, right? That is correct. And is the position for the second quarter right now is making money or losing money? Making money for the second half. For the second quarter right now. Is your divested position in the second quarter, you're making money or losing money? Yeah, we're making money.

speaker
Paul

It's in the money right now, Paul. Okay, we do. Thank you. You're welcome.

speaker
Operator

Thank you. We have no further questions at this time. I would like to turn the floor back over to management for closing comments.

speaker
Dave

Again, I'd like to thank you all for your interest in CBR Energy. Additionally, I'd like to thank our employees for their hard work and commitment towards safe, reliable, and environmentally responsible operations. We look forward to reviewing our second quarter 2024 results in our next earnings call. Thank you.

speaker
Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, this does conclude today's teleconference. You may disconnect your lines at this time. Thank you for your participation, and have a wonderful day.

Disclaimer

This conference call transcript was computer generated and almost certianly contains errors. This transcript is provided for information purposes only.EarningsCall, LLC makes no representation about the accuracy of the aforementioned transcript, and you are cautioned not to place undue reliance on the information provided by the transcript.

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